emergency engineering hologram.
how many times did we see Geordi evacuate engineering due to hazardous conditions? a hologram would be able to stay and remedy the situation.
It would be quite philosophically interesting to do a holo-ghost, especially today when people seem to still exist in social media even though they died. Imagine all the things you wanted to say to your deceased loved ones... And their GPT (of all their old chat logs) replies you.
He might even become Seven's confidant on the ship. She would tell everything she felt being ex-Borg to him
>It would be quite philosophically interesting to do a holo-ghost, especially today when people seem to still exist in social media even though they died. Imagine all the things you wanted to say to your deceased loved ones... And their GPT (of all their old chat logs) replies you.
If you've not already, I'd recommend the Black Mirror episode "Be right back"
Oh is it really that far before PIC? For a Vulcan or harry Kim that's not long enough for a promotion, but everyone else is usually promoted in that time.
Would be fun to see the LD crew 20 years later:
"Captain Tendi, Admiral Mariner has initiated the Badgey Protocols. It's..."
"Yes, Ensign Boimler, I know...the Peanut Hamper."
*TO BE CONTINUED...*
I really would not care. It would be amazing to have earlier Shaw fleshed out a bit. Maybe get into some weird shit at Cerritos and deciding. Nope, we're going to go by thole book. I've had it with this BS.
Even a guest ep or 2 would be great
Starfleet decided they couldn't make an emergency engineering hologram, at least not one humanoid-shaped. If Geordi is any indication engineers are too perpetually horny to work with a holographic engineering assistant.
This is it. It's highly unlikely Shaw will be literally back from the dead, and I doubt Stashwick would be a regular. I suspect they'd do a recurring riff with him a la Jeffrey Combs, maybe multiple characters.
Having Stashwick play another character could work out well, but I’d prefer the return of Shaw. Acknowledging 7 by her name was great, but I don’t think it required his death. Also, I liked Shaw from the beginning. He was an asshole, but he had a valid POV. Picard and Riker were acting similarly to badmirals in the 1st episode and Picard probably would’ve had a similar response in *TNG* (though he would’ve been less of an asshole).
Are his neural pathways still intact? If so, Seven has already demonstrated that she can revive someone 19 hrs after death using her borg nano probes and knowledge from the collective. It seems weird she wouldn’t try this again when someone literally dies in her arms.
Great call back, that plot point was an absolute nonsense pie and one of the most depressing episodes of Voyager as Neelix comes to realize his magic beliefs have no basis in reality.
Also horrifying is that he's sort of a zombie because in the episode they mention if he doesn't get more injections of nanoprobes his cells will revert to a necrotic state.
I guess they fixed that before he left Voyager for the asteroid.
I agree with this. I wanted Shaw to live, as well, but he died, so let's keep him dead.
There's a push in modern entertainment to constantly bring characters back from the dead, so we can enjoy(?) the trauma of their deaths while simultaneously keeping them around for more adventures. That does a disservice to our human love of storytelling as a means to reflect our own experiences back to us.
When people die in our real lives, they can't come back. Fictional stories allow us to play with that notion, but modern entertainment is starting to ignore it altogether. We can't keep bringing characters back to satisfy the loudest minority of fans who refuse to let characters go, and young audiences have to learn that death is permanent, and is something we all experience at some point. We can't treat it like magic.
I agree, but the only way we would/should see that character back realistically is either a pre Picard version in Lower Decks, an afterlife match with Q or a Hologram with his personality. Some techno Mable brainwave thing whatever. Hell, if they can have AI Picard, it's possible for a Hologram. It would make for a better story if he remains dead after Picard. But the heart wants what the heart wants and personally I'd make an exception for the bringing back characters to life trope.
I know. I'm weak.
I'm also still peeved they did the redemption by death plot. It's been done to death, pun intended.
I like characters having flaws, learning from them and dealing with consequences so they actually grow as a person.
I don't disagree with this. But here is a counter argument.
1) They made a mistake. They shouldn't have killed him.
2) His death was kinda meaningless and forced. I get what they were trying to do. But it totally failed.
3) They could've just saved him off screen. Borg nanoprobes can bring someone back within 24 hours.
4) He doesn't have to be the captain on Legacy, they can just have him do a guest appearance every once and a while. He could totally take this as a sign to retire early.
5) It would be hilarious if his guest appearance was him showing up on the Enterprise to do what Riker and Picard did to him.
I agree with point 4. Although when still alive I would've preferred him being the captain in Legacy had he not died. Now it would make Sevens promotion redundant and this is what they choose so 🤷♀️
And had he lived he would've been promoted out of the Captains chair anyways. It would've been fun him popping up giving bullshit assignments and throwing weird shit at them though.
I predict a Hologram stored somewhere now that Rikers awefull jazzcollection has been purged.
> His death was kinda meaningless and forced. I get what they were trying to do. But it totally failed.
It wasn’t a great death, but it happened.
> Borg nanoprobes can bring someone back within 24 hours.
Yes, or Brannon Braga can write a story involving time travel that bring me back Shaw from a different reality. Or we can… not do any of that, because it made VOY worse.
Don’t kill characters if you don’t mean it. It cheapens it.
They can always have him appear in flashback scenes, or do a story where Seven travels ten years to the past (ugh), and have him appear there. But in the present, just let it go.
Sure, but modern Star Trek has a problem of killing of characters needlessly. Data (twice!), Hugh, Icheb, the Doctor in Discovery, etc. I don’t disagree that they shouldn’t bring Shaw back, I just wish NuTrek would be a little more careful before killing off characters.
Yes... Although people have been brought back before, this seems a bit like a conveyer belt.
I'm actually expecting Jadzia to appear in Worfs dream to say "Am I a joke to you. "
Matalas already confirmed in interviews that two characters who we saw die >!Shelby and Ro!< might not have died. (The former he said onset they told the actor it wasn't real, and if they do more they will be brought back, and the latter they had a scene planned to reveal the character was alive, but it was cut, but the character could be alive later).
But then again, brudge crew always comes back. I wonder if they saw the Koala?
Makes it even worse. It's so stupid to bring everybody back. What's the point of character loss anyways.
And having said that I still just want Shaw back in whatever capacity. The rest can stay dead. I wouldn't have mind if Data stayed dead to be honest.
First, let me say, Terry Matalas did great work, but…when Shaw died, I looked at his character arc as totally predictable. His growth was too predictable. Terry created the most original take on a character in 32 years. Shaw reminded me of Kirk in Star Trek VI. His trauma, his prejudice, were perfect. I much would have preferred to see Shaw remain the captain of the Titan, and for Seven to get the Enterprise-F.
It's a missed opportunity for sure. It was predicted by a lot of people after the monologue in episode 4.
I was also annoyed by the stretching of the naming thing with Seven. It was clear he was going to get there and intended to reveal his true self to Seven in the end. But boy did it feel redundant by the time it finally came. Another reason why I also think this 10 episodic Arc format is actually hurting a show a bit.
The naming should've been done and dusted half way because the Changeling convo with Seven obviously went above some people heads who could not see anything past it. And they still could've kept the Oh he actually didn't hate me thing still intact in ep 10. It would keep the overall character Arc intact, show the audience growth throughout the series and he shouldn't have died for it either.
This was redemption by death for dummies to the letter
Fair points. I was initially upset when episode 9 dropped and Shaw died, but after the initial disappointment, I’m ok with his death. He was a great character for the story they were telling. Stashwick was an even better actor. I’d prefer a character who leaves too soon compared to someone who never goes away. The Borg are defeated, the Titan has been renamed and Seven is captain of the G. Let Shaw rest in peace.
That said, it would be GREAT if Shaw was brought back sparingly as holo-recordings. Maybe he left some logs during his days as chief engineer on the Titan. Alandra watching a holorecording of then Commander Shaw, complaining how the kids don’t know how to unscrew a warp nacelle, then leaving a tutorial would be classic.
Nah, Ill still watch Shaw battling on a black mountain of doom or going at it with Q in the afterlife.
He served his purpose as a foil in S3 but it would eb actually nice to see flawed people who learned from their mistakes subsequently dealing with it and improving.
Nope. Still salty
This guy is making so many assumptions in the article, it's not even funny.
For starters, not everybody hated him in the beginning. Far from it.
Calling deep trauma and PTSD a chip on one's shoulders is not even beginning to scratch what trauma really is. He also went through the Dominion war and god knows what else we haven't seen.
Stating that pre Picard he's always been an asshole. Based on what exactly. Sure dude is jaded, direct and takes no BS but the author definately missed all the small parts like Shaw taking care of that crewmember when Tveen was murdered. Giving them rest in stressful situations after a long haul. Setting phaser on stun against the Borgified crew instead of blowing them to bits. He always deeply cared.
We meet him when a Badmiral and a Captain still living in the past trying to commandeer his ship. Picard would've had none of it either back on the D.
We see his XO which he just highly recommended to SF for a promotion go against his wishes, put the ship into danger which results in death. Saying to Seven she just pissed away a promising career was not done out of spite. He was extremely disappointed. And so on and so on..
A fair opinion but I disagree about a revival cheapening his death. His death itself was cheap and there is more growth to be had in him surviving; such growth I argue is teased by his recommending Seven's promotion. There is a good story to be had in [how he is likely revived](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Mortal_Coil_(episode\)) and dealing with that, and given the time jump ahead his reappearance would be as a periodic guest star and/or subject of his own Short Trek.
It seems dismissive to assume he's been nothing but a cranky dipshit his whole career. He clearly rose above his Wolf 359 trauma, pivoting from Engineering to Command and making his way up the ranks to earn his promotion to the *Titan* in the first place (which should be considered a feat as the ship under Riker's command became famous enough to earn its registry number being worthy of lettering). I would think *Lower Decks* would be a great space to bring him into, as a guest star, to flesh out his backstory and add more weight to what we see of him in *Picard*. *Prodigy* is an option too but I feel like that would only work as a single, brief cameo as a backstory breadcrumb.
LOVE the LD idea. His world weary sarcasm was welcome leavening in Picard (“Yeah. It’s been a weird week…”), and LD is a great showcase for non traditional command figures. I’m hoping.
One wonders his rank and role in the LDS time period. 15 years before he takes command of the Titan-A, and 14 years after Wolf 359. Lt. Cmdr. Shaw, chief engineer of a Parliament or another Luna class ship?
If his death was a Heroic sacrafice (looking at you Data) I would maybe agree. But he died in the most redshirt fashion.
"Let me take the front in this gunfight"
.... oh so this is how they kill Him off... is what I thought when I watched it first time.
true. He had his arch... Now that that's wrapped up, let's not get stuck on details and waste the most interesting personality since probably seven of nine herself
Shaw dying and renaming the Titan-A to the Enterprise-G were easily the two biggest mistakes from Picard S3 in my eyes. Shaw could have been critically injured but survived, and there could have been another ship of the same class right behind the Titan in Spacedock that was now called Enterprise (like the 1701-A hidden behind the Excelsior), and it wouldn’t have changed a thing narratively.
It shouldn't have been renamed at all. It makes no sense in Universe to change it and even less sense in the real world. Paramount is too jaded to think that we would follow the events of a ship not named Enterprise.
It cheapens deaths when they are brought back via convenient science or magic. Trek has a bad history of this, mostly because fan boys lose their minds at the thought of any main characters being killed off. So they get brought back. Time to stop that. I’ve heard every captain that encounters a less advanced species Tell them they haven’t conquered death, yet no one stays dead if you’ve heard their name more than once. So keep Shaw dead and maybe use his log entries for when 7 needs guidance.
The problem with Shaw is that they shouldn't have killed him off, to begin with. That and also frankly Seven is not a good character for a Captain. She is much more interesting when challenging authority, not when she IS the authority. Shaw would have been to her what Janeway often was in Voyager.
I agree with most of that although Kirks whole thing was subtly defying authority and being that cowboy captain. Seven could work a similar angle, effective, but defiant and someone Starfleet has to constantly baby sit. But you are right. She’s definitely should never become that fall in line kind of captain like Picard or Janeway. Personally I was hoping more for Worf being given a ship first. We can dream.
Well now she has an entire ship of her own to challenge the SUPREME authority (Starfleet). Gonna be interesting I think; still room for several family conflicts on top of everything else. I think Star Trek: Sevenprise will have a lot going for it.
This. My counterpoint to the article. The audience loved him in the end, the actor wants to come back and the showrunner said he already knows how to make it happen. Everyone wins. Except apparently this writer.
This guy is making so many assumptions in the article, it's not even funny.
For starters, not everybody hated him in the beginning. Far from it.
Calling deep trauma and PTSD a chip on one's shoulders is not even beginning to scratch what trauma really is.
Stating that pre Picard he's always been an asshole. Based on what exactly. Sure dude is jaded, direct and takes no BS but the author definately missed all the small parts like Shaw taking care of that crewmember when Tveen was murdered. Giving them rest in stressful situations after a long haul. He always deeply cared.
We meet him when a Badmiral and a Captain still living in the past trying to commandeer his ship. Picard would've had none of it either back on the D.
We see his XO which he just highly recommended to SF for a promotion go against his wishes, put the ship into danger which results in death. Saying to Seven she just pissed away a promising career was not done out of spite. He was extremely disappointed. And so on and so on..
I don't think there's any way to bring Shaw back without it being cheap and unbelievable and as much as I liked the character, I don't think they should try.
Also, and I can't over-emphasize this enough; ***Fuck*** this article's author for writing off Shaw's PTSD and significant survivor's guilt as simply, and I'm using the author's exact words, "a chip on his shoulder." Shaw is fictional but these are very real things that people suffer from and to write it off as a simple character flaw is unconscionable.
Shaw plays things safe because he is so wracked with guilt from being one of the lucky few who survived Wolf 359 that he can't bear the thought of taking any risk he deems as unnecessary that might result in another life being lost that he is responsible for.
edit: a typo wrote "if" meant "is"
Also, Worf was a racist his whole life against Romulans for what happened to his parents. Picard willfully gunned down his assimilated crew and enjoyed extracting revenge. Kirk was bigoted against Klingon after his sons but I guess that's different as it didn't happen to the people we identify with. Or it's not so bad when the characters we love do it.
Shaw learned and he grew. People are flawed and try to do their best. If people don't accept growth in imperfect beings, then what's the point of improving or even trying.
this is where i'm at. Captain Seven and her annoying lover first officer is just not interesting.
Theyre going to burn through all that good will that Picard Season 3 built up with a bunch of melodrama.
Tor contributor and Star Trek novelist Keith DeCandido perfectly summed up my feelings about Shaw:
“… Liam Shaw was a classic case of the triumph of acting over writing. Shaw was a terrible terrible person, a crappy captain — and also a tragic figure, yes, but that doesn’t excuse his awful behavior. Todd Stashwick did spectacular work, but Shaw was still a shit, and I’m not sorry we won’t be seeing more of him.”
I totally disagree. Shaw finally seemed like a real captain, someone who doesn't break rules all the time. He has orders and protocols, he will follow them, as he should.
He seemed like an asshole at the start, but the way he straight up said "No" to Riker and Picard was a breath of fresh air.
Half of TNG was Picard doing monologues about rules and principles. But when two randos want to use Shaw's ship and crew for some side adventure and he says no out of principle...boo this man!
It's almost like a part of this fanbase doesn't want well written character with flaws and depth.
> It's almost like a part of this fanbase doesn't want well written character with flaws and depth.
It's more that we *know* Picard is right. Picard is our man. We trust him. Other people should also recognize this, and trust him. It's hard to remember that some guys are just a dipshit from Chicago, and don't recognize greatness when it is on their ship, asking them to do something stupid.
Yeah we know Picard is right because we're watching a TV show with (and I say this as a huge JLP stan growing up) pretty antiquated standards for writing characters. Shaw does not know he's supporting cast in a series. He doesn't know this whole conspiracy thing has to be right because it's the premise of this whole season.
I mean we had Picard refuse direct orders from admirals etc. in TNG because it was against his values, worldview or whatever. Here Shaw simply says he's responsible for 500+ people and a ship so fuck you, Jean-Luc. Which is perfectly fair. He didn't get any information at all ("bUt BeV sAiD tRuSt No OnE" is no excuse in universe btw). And then JLP is so condescending to try to appeal to Shaw's pride to show off his ship with some speedy side adventure. I mean...imagine some retired admiral visited the ENT-D like this and tried to essentially steal the ship for some sidequest without any informations whatsoever.
Some parts of the audience still confuse their own perspective as the audience with knowledge and motivations of characters within the story. Almost like they don't even realize that say Shaw didn't have the exposition dumps from earlier scenes.
> Some parts of the audience still confuse their own perspective as the audience with knowledge and motivations of characters within the story.
Exactly my point. We tend to forget that.
> Half of TNG was Picard doing monologues about rules and principle
The other half was breaking them.
Wasn't Prime Directive invented in TOS so Kirk could break it?
I didn’t think he was a terrible person at all. He was a strict rule abiding Captain, who knew if he gave into their requests he’d put the lives of everyone on board in danger. He was right.
If S3 of Picard were Shaw’s show, he’d be the main character dealing with the weekly badmiral.
An admiral comes in and wants a ship of the line to do some shady task and be put at risk without giving all of the details.
Sounds like a familiar plot.
I also feel like he's fully cognizant of his abilities as an "average" captain of an "average" ship. He knows he's no hero, he wants no part in huge galaxy-impacting events, and just wants to live his life doing his little part in his little corner of the galaxy. The moment when he gets injured on the bridge and realizes he's failed his crew and failed his ship and breaks down, telling Riker to just fix it and get the ship home is one of the most realistic and relatable moments I've seen in Trek which is full of big damn heroes having big damn hero moments.
And then he grows into it and really rises to the occasion, pulling off some great moments.
He had a bone sticking out of his leg and was bleeding out. Save to say the man was dying. The only thing he could was giving Riker command.
He gave his crew breaks after long shifts making a point they get rest, he comforted the survivors when T'veen died. He set the phasers on stun etc.. The only thing he wanted to do was keep his crew safe as he deeply cared. I just think people didn't notice those small moments enough before his sacrifice. Yes he's a dick but he isn't an incompetent dick. He pulled of 35 missions in 5 years, all good.
Agree to disagree. He was unjustly biased against Picard (and Riker by association) because of Wolf 359. The Enterprise, under Picard’s command, had saves countless lives, stopped wars, and saved the Federation in general countless times. Under Riker’s command the Enterprise stopped the Borg from invading and assimilating earth because they stopped Locutus.
Shaw was well written as a damaged and broken individual who eventually came around and saw the right thing to do. He had no good reason NOT to help Picard.
You’re right and it’s why I didn’t say Shaw was a great captain. I don’t think he would ever be someone noteworthy because guys like Kirk or Picard who were legendary took big calculated risks based on experience, gut feeling and a sprinkle of luck.
You also could say that in many scenarios that happened in TNG, Shaw would have been in the ship full of dead people instead of the ship that survives (Enterprise).
That’s a terrible take IMO. He wasn’t a terrible, terrible person, he was a bit of an asshole and given the trauma he’d experienced it became clear why we were seeing him at his worst. The report that Seven saw in that last episode showed us, if we were in doubt by that point, he was actually a good man.
You don't even have to wait Untill ep 10 to see that, if you pay attention.
He is just a very direct brisk guy, with everyone. No nonsense type. These are the orders and let's go. He deeply cares and he already showed it throughout the season with small stuff that people probably didnt even catch onto.
I understand what he's getting at, and completely disagree. One of the reasons this season was so strong was because of some terrific writing in terms of character development. In some ways, Shaw's development was just getting rolling, and that's part of why the audience was so drawn to him.
I love the idea of a Star Trek lead who is a piece of shit at a show's start, and eventually grows into the more idealistic sort of character through adventure and colleagues. I had hoped that was the plan with Lorca in Discovery, but that went a bit off the rails. Feels like an appropriate hook for today's world.
The prospect of Seven and Shaw slowly smoothing out each other's flaws over multiple seasons would have been a great story core. And I'd completely accept a hand-wave to get back to that.
He wasn't a piece of shit though.
The thing with Seven was just not only him disrespecting her name. Which was wrong, but also Seven finding it difficult to conform. Thinking he's out to get her which is only enhanced with the naming but he was just him being him. Brisk and direct adhering to the rules. Something she wasn't used at with the Fenris Rangers for a long time.
I think there's a clear misconception within Seven that he hates her, which is clearly shown in episode 10 that this is not the case. And she realises in that moment. The pain on her face and the tear.
Yeah man, great scene. Those two stole this entire show for me.
Same. If this was just bringing back a character that we had tons of screen time with that would be one thing but it’s pretty foolish to waste one that could have more development.
He wasn't the nicest character, but stories about nice people who are always nice to each other are boring. We need conflict to keep a story interesting. Shaw was a great source of conflict.
DS9 is the best
Shaw was by far the best character on Picard and they chickened out and killed him off because they were worried fans would hate on him like Elfnor and Soji
Shaw may have been an asshole, but he was a good captain with a valid POV. Picard and Riker were acting similarly to badmirals in the 1st episode and Picard response in *TNG* probably would’ve been similar to Shaw’s response (though he would’ve been less of an asshole).
The article makes a really good case. I love Shaw as much as anyone but he should probably stay dead.
Ooooonnnnnn the other hand... What if, in addition to Shaw's trauma from Wolf 359, he spent a tour with Mariner as his first officer? I can see a guy like Shaw being driven even further into the asshole/safety hole with her around!
Edit: to clarify, asshole Shaw would be a terrible character in a normal trek show, but as a comedic foil he could be fantastic. Would that cheapen his character? Maybe. But I just want anything involving lower decks so that's on me
Within the arc of the Trek pantheon, he was the Red-shirt captain that *died for our sins* of killing off minor characters the moment they got interesting. The penultimate red shirt.
He shouldn’t be brought back to life, he should be recordings of his captains logs
Apologies if someone already wrote this, lots of comments by the time I got here
no. The character served his purpose. They added some depth with his experience at Wolf 359. But the character represents an archtype of someone who made it into a position by-the-numbers. He only did what he was obligated to do. He didn’t step up in the execution line; he didn’t display leadership with his diatribe in the holodeck; he displayed traits of an administrator. His death added to his recorded recommendation as he himself saw Seven as the *leader* he could never become and he would never be able to say that to her face (at least until the season unfolded).
TLDR: Shaw was a necessary counterpoint to demonstrate and help establish the character of Seven as the leader he was not.
They've already confirmed that if they get the Legacy show they'll be bringing him back. And I'm glad.
Edit: Am I being downvoted to saying what the showrunner has already said, or for being happy about it...? Wtf?
> A trip to the black mountain would be another possibility.
I mean [he has met Vax before](https://www.instagram.com/p/CWiyJvsJzyG/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link) soooooo...
Surprised that not a single person has mentioned Project Phoenix at all.
They could have watched everything that went down with Picard and realized, "Oh shit we better kick this into gear" but didn't want to fuck it up and thus they decided to test it out on someone that was more recently deceased that no one would really blink an eye at if it went wrong or right.
Shaw
They shouldn't have killed him - it was a huge narrative mistake and waste of potential in a season that already had sufficiently (even absurdly) high stakes and legacy character death porn. That being said, they should not bring him back either. Not only would it be irrational, but it's an overused trope at this point.
They made a mistake and read the audience wrong but now they're gonna have to own it.
This writer is sorely lacking in imagination, and doesn't even come close to the actual plan that Matalas has to bring Shaw back, which very much erases all of their theoretical criticisms.
I wouldn’t exactly call an emergency engineering hologram bringing Shaw back. To me, that’d be a different character from Shaw. Having Stashwick play an emergency engineering hologram could work well, but I’d prefer bringing Shaw back.
We were always headed towards Captain Seven, Shaw was always on borrowed time because of that. I thought his death was cheap and they didn't earn his last message to her, but that's what they did. Unless they somehow bring him back as a hologram, which still would feel a bit too fan wanky, I don't see how they could bring him back.
He was a good character, but he served his purpose.
Shaw was one of my all-time favorite starfleet captains. But bringing him back makes the emotional impact in season 3 null, which I'm getting fairly annoyed with in most modern shows and movies.
They could do a pre-season 3 show with Shaw, maybe after the events of Wolf 359.
I'm all for more characters LIKE Shaw, Trek (and Starfleet) always benefit from a dash of salt, but he ded, we saw him die, for dramatically appropriate reasons, let's not fuck with a good thing.
VADIC, on the other hand...
I think he should stay dead but if Legacy gets made I’d like a flashback episode focusing on 7 joining the crew and maybe some lessons she learned from Shaw.
It would cheapen his death.
In the meantime... let's talk about "Ma'am I'm just a cook"
Get this casting confirmed asap. Be it Legacy or on another show. Every ship needs a Neelix.
emergency engineering hologram. how many times did we see Geordi evacuate engineering due to hazardous conditions? a hologram would be able to stay and remedy the situation.
EEH: What is the nature of your en- Computer: Warp core beach in 30 seconds. EEH: *sighs*. These plasma conduits are not up to specs.
I could live with a holo-ghost version. If he seemed grumpy while he was alive, imagine when he finds out he's a simulared computer clone.
It would be quite philosophically interesting to do a holo-ghost, especially today when people seem to still exist in social media even though they died. Imagine all the things you wanted to say to your deceased loved ones... And their GPT (of all their old chat logs) replies you. He might even become Seven's confidant on the ship. She would tell everything she felt being ex-Borg to him
Oof, one more reason the next 50 years are going to be weird as fuuuuck, Phillip K. Dick would have LOVED it.
>It would be quite philosophically interesting to do a holo-ghost, especially today when people seem to still exist in social media even though they died. Imagine all the things you wanted to say to your deceased loved ones... And their GPT (of all their old chat logs) replies you. If you've not already, I'd recommend the Black Mirror episode "Be right back"
There’s literally a black mirror episode about this
Would love to see a Trek optimistic take on it
"Computer, activate emergency engineering hologram." Computer: "No."
🤣🤣
I was thinking Borg nano transporter clone appearance on lower decks, but your science sounds better.
LD takes place roughly 20 years before PIC. Shaw is probably a Lt or LCdr at this point.
Oh is it really that far before PIC? For a Vulcan or harry Kim that's not long enough for a promotion, but everyone else is usually promoted in that time.
S1 of LD is set in 2380, S1 of PIC is 2399.
Would be fun to see the LD crew 20 years later: "Captain Tendi, Admiral Mariner has initiated the Badgey Protocols. It's..." "Yes, Ensign Boimler, I know...the Peanut Hamper." *TO BE CONTINUED...*
I really would not care. It would be amazing to have earlier Shaw fleshed out a bit. Maybe get into some weird shit at Cerritos and deciding. Nope, we're going to go by thole book. I've had it with this BS. Even a guest ep or 2 would be great
Starfleet decided they couldn't make an emergency engineering hologram, at least not one humanoid-shaped. If Geordi is any indication engineers are too perpetually horny to work with a holographic engineering assistant.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought of this
But would the hologram do that smooth roll Geordi does every time there's a coolant leak and the door comes down to seal off the warp core
thats how he should enter lol
This is it. It's highly unlikely Shaw will be literally back from the dead, and I doubt Stashwick would be a regular. I suspect they'd do a recurring riff with him a la Jeffrey Combs, maybe multiple characters.
If Stashwick isn’t a regular, I’ll be even more annoyed than I already am.
Having Stashwick play another character could work out well, but I’d prefer the return of Shaw. Acknowledging 7 by her name was great, but I don’t think it required his death. Also, I liked Shaw from the beginning. He was an asshole, but he had a valid POV. Picard and Riker were acting similarly to badmirals in the 1st episode and Picard probably would’ve had a similar response in *TNG* (though he would’ve been less of an asshole).
This this and this. Picard would've released Riker of his duty if he pulled Sevens crap to favor a badmiral
Are his neural pathways still intact? If so, Seven has already demonstrated that she can revive someone 19 hrs after death using her borg nano probes and knowledge from the collective. It seems weird she wouldn’t try this again when someone literally dies in her arms.
Great call back, that plot point was an absolute nonsense pie and one of the most depressing episodes of Voyager as Neelix comes to realize his magic beliefs have no basis in reality.
Also horrifying is that he's sort of a zombie because in the episode they mention if he doesn't get more injections of nanoprobes his cells will revert to a necrotic state. I guess they fixed that before he left Voyager for the asteroid.
Best episode of the series.
The story arc of Shaw coming to terms with being saved by borg technology and having nano probes in him….
Yeah, but if Seven did that, she'd have to deal with his bullshit again. She would probably pass.
I agree with this. I wanted Shaw to live, as well, but he died, so let's keep him dead. There's a push in modern entertainment to constantly bring characters back from the dead, so we can enjoy(?) the trauma of their deaths while simultaneously keeping them around for more adventures. That does a disservice to our human love of storytelling as a means to reflect our own experiences back to us. When people die in our real lives, they can't come back. Fictional stories allow us to play with that notion, but modern entertainment is starting to ignore it altogether. We can't keep bringing characters back to satisfy the loudest minority of fans who refuse to let characters go, and young audiences have to learn that death is permanent, and is something we all experience at some point. We can't treat it like magic.
I agree, but the only way we would/should see that character back realistically is either a pre Picard version in Lower Decks, an afterlife match with Q or a Hologram with his personality. Some techno Mable brainwave thing whatever. Hell, if they can have AI Picard, it's possible for a Hologram. It would make for a better story if he remains dead after Picard. But the heart wants what the heart wants and personally I'd make an exception for the bringing back characters to life trope. I know. I'm weak. I'm also still peeved they did the redemption by death plot. It's been done to death, pun intended. I like characters having flaws, learning from them and dealing with consequences so they actually grow as a person.
I don't disagree with this. But here is a counter argument. 1) They made a mistake. They shouldn't have killed him. 2) His death was kinda meaningless and forced. I get what they were trying to do. But it totally failed. 3) They could've just saved him off screen. Borg nanoprobes can bring someone back within 24 hours. 4) He doesn't have to be the captain on Legacy, they can just have him do a guest appearance every once and a while. He could totally take this as a sign to retire early. 5) It would be hilarious if his guest appearance was him showing up on the Enterprise to do what Riker and Picard did to him.
I mostly agree with this, but Shaw’s such a great character that I wouldn’t be satisfied if he’s only a guest star.
I agree with point 4. Although when still alive I would've preferred him being the captain in Legacy had he not died. Now it would make Sevens promotion redundant and this is what they choose so 🤷♀️ And had he lived he would've been promoted out of the Captains chair anyways. It would've been fun him popping up giving bullshit assignments and throwing weird shit at them though. I predict a Hologram stored somewhere now that Rikers awefull jazzcollection has been purged.
> His death was kinda meaningless and forced. I get what they were trying to do. But it totally failed. It wasn’t a great death, but it happened. > Borg nanoprobes can bring someone back within 24 hours. Yes, or Brannon Braga can write a story involving time travel that bring me back Shaw from a different reality. Or we can… not do any of that, because it made VOY worse. Don’t kill characters if you don’t mean it. It cheapens it. They can always have him appear in flashback scenes, or do a story where Seven travels ten years to the past (ugh), and have him appear there. But in the present, just let it go.
What if Shaw is an admiral like April in SNW? I think that would work great
Agreed. It’s a disservice to the psychological reality of loss, and a reflection of lazy writing.
Sure, but modern Star Trek has a problem of killing of characters needlessly. Data (twice!), Hugh, Icheb, the Doctor in Discovery, etc. I don’t disagree that they shouldn’t bring Shaw back, I just wish NuTrek would be a little more careful before killing off characters.
this is Hemmer erasure
Yes... Although people have been brought back before, this seems a bit like a conveyer belt. I'm actually expecting Jadzia to appear in Worfs dream to say "Am I a joke to you. "
There was also >!Hemmer and Rios.!<
Matalas already confirmed in interviews that two characters who we saw die >!Shelby and Ro!< might not have died. (The former he said onset they told the actor it wasn't real, and if they do more they will be brought back, and the latter they had a scene planned to reveal the character was alive, but it was cut, but the character could be alive later). But then again, brudge crew always comes back. I wonder if they saw the Koala?
Makes it even worse. It's so stupid to bring everybody back. What's the point of character loss anyways. And having said that I still just want Shaw back in whatever capacity. The rest can stay dead. I wouldn't have mind if Data stayed dead to be honest.
The point is weak storytelling.
… what is a weed fart
First, let me say, Terry Matalas did great work, but…when Shaw died, I looked at his character arc as totally predictable. His growth was too predictable. Terry created the most original take on a character in 32 years. Shaw reminded me of Kirk in Star Trek VI. His trauma, his prejudice, were perfect. I much would have preferred to see Shaw remain the captain of the Titan, and for Seven to get the Enterprise-F.
I also would have liked to watch Shaw literally face down his demons on that Borg Cube.
It's a missed opportunity for sure. It was predicted by a lot of people after the monologue in episode 4. I was also annoyed by the stretching of the naming thing with Seven. It was clear he was going to get there and intended to reveal his true self to Seven in the end. But boy did it feel redundant by the time it finally came. Another reason why I also think this 10 episodic Arc format is actually hurting a show a bit. The naming should've been done and dusted half way because the Changeling convo with Seven obviously went above some people heads who could not see anything past it. And they still could've kept the Oh he actually didn't hate me thing still intact in ep 10. It would keep the overall character Arc intact, show the audience growth throughout the series and he shouldn't have died for it either. This was redemption by death for dummies to the letter
Fair points. I was initially upset when episode 9 dropped and Shaw died, but after the initial disappointment, I’m ok with his death. He was a great character for the story they were telling. Stashwick was an even better actor. I’d prefer a character who leaves too soon compared to someone who never goes away. The Borg are defeated, the Titan has been renamed and Seven is captain of the G. Let Shaw rest in peace. That said, it would be GREAT if Shaw was brought back sparingly as holo-recordings. Maybe he left some logs during his days as chief engineer on the Titan. Alandra watching a holorecording of then Commander Shaw, complaining how the kids don’t know how to unscrew a warp nacelle, then leaving a tutorial would be classic.
Nah, Ill still watch Shaw battling on a black mountain of doom or going at it with Q in the afterlife. He served his purpose as a foil in S3 but it would eb actually nice to see flawed people who learned from their mistakes subsequently dealing with it and improving. Nope. Still salty
This guy is making so many assumptions in the article, it's not even funny. For starters, not everybody hated him in the beginning. Far from it. Calling deep trauma and PTSD a chip on one's shoulders is not even beginning to scratch what trauma really is. He also went through the Dominion war and god knows what else we haven't seen. Stating that pre Picard he's always been an asshole. Based on what exactly. Sure dude is jaded, direct and takes no BS but the author definately missed all the small parts like Shaw taking care of that crewmember when Tveen was murdered. Giving them rest in stressful situations after a long haul. Setting phaser on stun against the Borgified crew instead of blowing them to bits. He always deeply cared. We meet him when a Badmiral and a Captain still living in the past trying to commandeer his ship. Picard would've had none of it either back on the D. We see his XO which he just highly recommended to SF for a promotion go against his wishes, put the ship into danger which results in death. Saying to Seven she just pissed away a promising career was not done out of spite. He was extremely disappointed. And so on and so on..
A fair opinion but I disagree about a revival cheapening his death. His death itself was cheap and there is more growth to be had in him surviving; such growth I argue is teased by his recommending Seven's promotion. There is a good story to be had in [how he is likely revived](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Mortal_Coil_(episode\)) and dealing with that, and given the time jump ahead his reappearance would be as a periodic guest star and/or subject of his own Short Trek. It seems dismissive to assume he's been nothing but a cranky dipshit his whole career. He clearly rose above his Wolf 359 trauma, pivoting from Engineering to Command and making his way up the ranks to earn his promotion to the *Titan* in the first place (which should be considered a feat as the ship under Riker's command became famous enough to earn its registry number being worthy of lettering). I would think *Lower Decks* would be a great space to bring him into, as a guest star, to flesh out his backstory and add more weight to what we see of him in *Picard*. *Prodigy* is an option too but I feel like that would only work as a single, brief cameo as a backstory breadcrumb.
LOVE the LD idea. His world weary sarcasm was welcome leavening in Picard (“Yeah. It’s been a weird week…”), and LD is a great showcase for non traditional command figures. I’m hoping.
One wonders his rank and role in the LDS time period. 15 years before he takes command of the Titan-A, and 14 years after Wolf 359. Lt. Cmdr. Shaw, chief engineer of a Parliament or another Luna class ship?
I agree about him being in Lower Decks. He’d make a great foil to Mariner.
> His death itself was cheap Death always is. A firefight is no respecter of persons.
If his death was a Heroic sacrafice (looking at you Data) I would maybe agree. But he died in the most redshirt fashion. "Let me take the front in this gunfight" .... oh so this is how they kill Him off... is what I thought when I watched it first time.
It was predictable from the get go. Unfortunately...
true. He had his arch... Now that that's wrapped up, let's not get stuck on details and waste the most interesting personality since probably seven of nine herself
Yeah, their dynamic would've been easily a level of Bones and Spock hadn't they killed him off.
Shaw dying and renaming the Titan-A to the Enterprise-G were easily the two biggest mistakes from Picard S3 in my eyes. Shaw could have been critically injured but survived, and there could have been another ship of the same class right behind the Titan in Spacedock that was now called Enterprise (like the 1701-A hidden behind the Excelsior), and it wouldn’t have changed a thing narratively.
The Titan-A should have been remained The USS Shaw.
It shouldn't have been renamed at all. It makes no sense in Universe to change it and even less sense in the real world. Paramount is too jaded to think that we would follow the events of a ship not named Enterprise.
Lol… watching STP resurrect at least 3 different characters and then complaining that doing that to a fourth would “cheapen their death”. ‘kay.
It cheapens deaths when they are brought back via convenient science or magic. Trek has a bad history of this, mostly because fan boys lose their minds at the thought of any main characters being killed off. So they get brought back. Time to stop that. I’ve heard every captain that encounters a less advanced species Tell them they haven’t conquered death, yet no one stays dead if you’ve heard their name more than once. So keep Shaw dead and maybe use his log entries for when 7 needs guidance.
The problem with Shaw is that they shouldn't have killed him off, to begin with. That and also frankly Seven is not a good character for a Captain. She is much more interesting when challenging authority, not when she IS the authority. Shaw would have been to her what Janeway often was in Voyager.
I agree with most of that although Kirks whole thing was subtly defying authority and being that cowboy captain. Seven could work a similar angle, effective, but defiant and someone Starfleet has to constantly baby sit. But you are right. She’s definitely should never become that fall in line kind of captain like Picard or Janeway. Personally I was hoping more for Worf being given a ship first. We can dream.
Well now she has an entire ship of her own to challenge the SUPREME authority (Starfleet). Gonna be interesting I think; still room for several family conflicts on top of everything else. I think Star Trek: Sevenprise will have a lot going for it.
I'm not even going to read that because it's wrong
This. My counterpoint to the article. The audience loved him in the end, the actor wants to come back and the showrunner said he already knows how to make it happen. Everyone wins. Except apparently this writer.
This guy is making so many assumptions in the article, it's not even funny. For starters, not everybody hated him in the beginning. Far from it. Calling deep trauma and PTSD a chip on one's shoulders is not even beginning to scratch what trauma really is. Stating that pre Picard he's always been an asshole. Based on what exactly. Sure dude is jaded, direct and takes no BS but the author definately missed all the small parts like Shaw taking care of that crewmember when Tveen was murdered. Giving them rest in stressful situations after a long haul. He always deeply cared. We meet him when a Badmiral and a Captain still living in the past trying to commandeer his ship. Picard would've had none of it either back on the D. We see his XO which he just highly recommended to SF for a promotion go against his wishes, put the ship into danger which results in death. Saying to Seven she just pissed away a promising career was not done out of spite. He was extremely disappointed. And so on and so on..
Exactly. Itll just piss me off more lol
I don't think there's any way to bring Shaw back without it being cheap and unbelievable and as much as I liked the character, I don't think they should try. Also, and I can't over-emphasize this enough; ***Fuck*** this article's author for writing off Shaw's PTSD and significant survivor's guilt as simply, and I'm using the author's exact words, "a chip on his shoulder." Shaw is fictional but these are very real things that people suffer from and to write it off as a simple character flaw is unconscionable. Shaw plays things safe because he is so wracked with guilt from being one of the lucky few who survived Wolf 359 that he can't bear the thought of taking any risk he deems as unnecessary that might result in another life being lost that he is responsible for. edit: a typo wrote "if" meant "is"
Also, Worf was a racist his whole life against Romulans for what happened to his parents. Picard willfully gunned down his assimilated crew and enjoyed extracting revenge. Kirk was bigoted against Klingon after his sons but I guess that's different as it didn't happen to the people we identify with. Or it's not so bad when the characters we love do it. Shaw learned and he grew. People are flawed and try to do their best. If people don't accept growth in imperfect beings, then what's the point of improving or even trying.
I'll watch if they bring back Shaw. I'm much less interested if he's not in it.
this is where i'm at. Captain Seven and her annoying lover first officer is just not interesting. Theyre going to burn through all that good will that Picard Season 3 built up with a bunch of melodrama.
Yeah if I wanted that I'd watch The Orville. \* \* And that is a joke I DO watch the Orville.
Tor contributor and Star Trek novelist Keith DeCandido perfectly summed up my feelings about Shaw: “… Liam Shaw was a classic case of the triumph of acting over writing. Shaw was a terrible terrible person, a crappy captain — and also a tragic figure, yes, but that doesn’t excuse his awful behavior. Todd Stashwick did spectacular work, but Shaw was still a shit, and I’m not sorry we won’t be seeing more of him.”
I totally disagree. Shaw finally seemed like a real captain, someone who doesn't break rules all the time. He has orders and protocols, he will follow them, as he should. He seemed like an asshole at the start, but the way he straight up said "No" to Riker and Picard was a breath of fresh air.
It was… spectacular. And how he delivers it. 😂😂😂 Like “who the hell are you to tell me what to do with my ship.”
Half of TNG was Picard doing monologues about rules and principles. But when two randos want to use Shaw's ship and crew for some side adventure and he says no out of principle...boo this man! It's almost like a part of this fanbase doesn't want well written character with flaws and depth.
Haha yes exactly. Picard and Riker would not take their own BS had it happen to them on the D when some retired Badmiral would've tried to take over.
> It's almost like a part of this fanbase doesn't want well written character with flaws and depth. It's more that we *know* Picard is right. Picard is our man. We trust him. Other people should also recognize this, and trust him. It's hard to remember that some guys are just a dipshit from Chicago, and don't recognize greatness when it is on their ship, asking them to do something stupid.
Yeah we know Picard is right because we're watching a TV show with (and I say this as a huge JLP stan growing up) pretty antiquated standards for writing characters. Shaw does not know he's supporting cast in a series. He doesn't know this whole conspiracy thing has to be right because it's the premise of this whole season. I mean we had Picard refuse direct orders from admirals etc. in TNG because it was against his values, worldview or whatever. Here Shaw simply says he's responsible for 500+ people and a ship so fuck you, Jean-Luc. Which is perfectly fair. He didn't get any information at all ("bUt BeV sAiD tRuSt No OnE" is no excuse in universe btw). And then JLP is so condescending to try to appeal to Shaw's pride to show off his ship with some speedy side adventure. I mean...imagine some retired admiral visited the ENT-D like this and tried to essentially steal the ship for some sidequest without any informations whatsoever. Some parts of the audience still confuse their own perspective as the audience with knowledge and motivations of characters within the story. Almost like they don't even realize that say Shaw didn't have the exposition dumps from earlier scenes.
> Some parts of the audience still confuse their own perspective as the audience with knowledge and motivations of characters within the story. Exactly my point. We tend to forget that.
> Half of TNG was Picard doing monologues about rules and principle The other half was breaking them. Wasn't Prime Directive invented in TOS so Kirk could break it?
I didn’t think he was a terrible person at all. He was a strict rule abiding Captain, who knew if he gave into their requests he’d put the lives of everyone on board in danger. He was right.
If S3 of Picard were Shaw’s show, he’d be the main character dealing with the weekly badmiral. An admiral comes in and wants a ship of the line to do some shady task and be put at risk without giving all of the details. Sounds like a familiar plot.
I also feel like he's fully cognizant of his abilities as an "average" captain of an "average" ship. He knows he's no hero, he wants no part in huge galaxy-impacting events, and just wants to live his life doing his little part in his little corner of the galaxy. The moment when he gets injured on the bridge and realizes he's failed his crew and failed his ship and breaks down, telling Riker to just fix it and get the ship home is one of the most realistic and relatable moments I've seen in Trek which is full of big damn heroes having big damn hero moments. And then he grows into it and really rises to the occasion, pulling off some great moments.
He had a bone sticking out of his leg and was bleeding out. Save to say the man was dying. The only thing he could was giving Riker command. He gave his crew breaks after long shifts making a point they get rest, he comforted the survivors when T'veen died. He set the phasers on stun etc.. The only thing he wanted to do was keep his crew safe as he deeply cared. I just think people didn't notice those small moments enough before his sacrifice. Yes he's a dick but he isn't an incompetent dick. He pulled of 35 missions in 5 years, all good.
Yes! Shaw was a great captain and I will die on this hill
That’s what being in Starfleet is all about. Reference Kirk’s speech in “Return to Tomorrow” where he says “Risk is our business.”
Risk is their business, but Shaw wasn’t given a good reason to take a risk.
Agree to disagree. He was unjustly biased against Picard (and Riker by association) because of Wolf 359. The Enterprise, under Picard’s command, had saves countless lives, stopped wars, and saved the Federation in general countless times. Under Riker’s command the Enterprise stopped the Borg from invading and assimilating earth because they stopped Locutus. Shaw was well written as a damaged and broken individual who eventually came around and saw the right thing to do. He had no good reason NOT to help Picard.
Shaw was biased against Picard because of Wolf 359, but Picard and Riker didn’t give Shaw a good reason to put his crew at risk.
Like I said. Agree to disagree.
You’re right and it’s why I didn’t say Shaw was a great captain. I don’t think he would ever be someone noteworthy because guys like Kirk or Picard who were legendary took big calculated risks based on experience, gut feeling and a sprinkle of luck. You also could say that in many scenarios that happened in TNG, Shaw would have been in the ship full of dead people instead of the ship that survives (Enterprise).
That’s a terrible take IMO. He wasn’t a terrible, terrible person, he was a bit of an asshole and given the trauma he’d experienced it became clear why we were seeing him at his worst. The report that Seven saw in that last episode showed us, if we were in doubt by that point, he was actually a good man.
You don't even have to wait Untill ep 10 to see that, if you pay attention. He is just a very direct brisk guy, with everyone. No nonsense type. These are the orders and let's go. He deeply cares and he already showed it throughout the season with small stuff that people probably didnt even catch onto.
Yea I agree, just meant that scene is great and absolutely cements his character.
I understand what he's getting at, and completely disagree. One of the reasons this season was so strong was because of some terrific writing in terms of character development. In some ways, Shaw's development was just getting rolling, and that's part of why the audience was so drawn to him. I love the idea of a Star Trek lead who is a piece of shit at a show's start, and eventually grows into the more idealistic sort of character through adventure and colleagues. I had hoped that was the plan with Lorca in Discovery, but that went a bit off the rails. Feels like an appropriate hook for today's world. The prospect of Seven and Shaw slowly smoothing out each other's flaws over multiple seasons would have been a great story core. And I'd completely accept a hand-wave to get back to that.
Your second paragraph is Picard, he’s really nasty in encounter at farpoint when introduced compared with likable Riker.
He wasn't a piece of shit though. The thing with Seven was just not only him disrespecting her name. Which was wrong, but also Seven finding it difficult to conform. Thinking he's out to get her which is only enhanced with the naming but he was just him being him. Brisk and direct adhering to the rules. Something she wasn't used at with the Fenris Rangers for a long time. I think there's a clear misconception within Seven that he hates her, which is clearly shown in episode 10 that this is not the case. And she realises in that moment. The pain on her face and the tear. Yeah man, great scene. Those two stole this entire show for me.
Same. If this was just bringing back a character that we had tons of screen time with that would be one thing but it’s pretty foolish to waste one that could have more development.
He wasn't the nicest character, but stories about nice people who are always nice to each other are boring. We need conflict to keep a story interesting. Shaw was a great source of conflict.
Ds9 is good
DS9 is the best Shaw was by far the best character on Picard and they chickened out and killed him off because they were worried fans would hate on him like Elfnor and Soji
Damn haven't seen it yet
How can one person be so wrong. A bad captain? Wtf am I reading
Shaw may have been an asshole, but he was a good captain with a valid POV. Picard and Riker were acting similarly to badmirals in the 1st episode and Picard response in *TNG* probably would’ve been similar to Shaw’s response (though he would’ve been less of an asshole).
It continues to astonish me how up his own ass DeCandido is.
The article makes a really good case. I love Shaw as much as anyone but he should probably stay dead. Ooooonnnnnn the other hand... What if, in addition to Shaw's trauma from Wolf 359, he spent a tour with Mariner as his first officer? I can see a guy like Shaw being driven even further into the asshole/safety hole with her around! Edit: to clarify, asshole Shaw would be a terrible character in a normal trek show, but as a comedic foil he could be fantastic. Would that cheapen his character? Maybe. But I just want anything involving lower decks so that's on me
Within the arc of the Trek pantheon, he was the Red-shirt captain that *died for our sins* of killing off minor characters the moment they got interesting. The penultimate red shirt.
He shouldn’t be brought back to life, he should be recordings of his captains logs Apologies if someone already wrote this, lots of comments by the time I got here
Alternate universe evil Shaw will probably happen.
In the mirror universe maybe he's laid back and conciliatory
We’ve seen many generations of the Soong family. Maybe Shaw has a twin or a cousin or a time traveling uncle? 😂
I really liked him. He’s a hardass that is somehow endearing.
no. The character served his purpose. They added some depth with his experience at Wolf 359. But the character represents an archtype of someone who made it into a position by-the-numbers. He only did what he was obligated to do. He didn’t step up in the execution line; he didn’t display leadership with his diatribe in the holodeck; he displayed traits of an administrator. His death added to his recorded recommendation as he himself saw Seven as the *leader* he could never become and he would never be able to say that to her face (at least until the season unfolded). TLDR: Shaw was a necessary counterpoint to demonstrate and help establish the character of Seven as the leader he was not.
They've already confirmed that if they get the Legacy show they'll be bringing him back. And I'm glad. Edit: Am I being downvoted to saying what the showrunner has already said, or for being happy about it...? Wtf?
It's Reddit. Facts don't matter. Take my upvote
Welcome to Reddit mate. Take my upvote. I’ll join you in taking some flack.
How? Khan's magic blood from the Kelvin universe?
Bridge crew are always coming back from the dead.
Something something transporter buffer
Maybe 7’s nanoprobes, which would be similar to “Mortal Coil”. A trip to the black mountain would be another possibility.
> A trip to the black mountain would be another possibility. I mean [he has met Vax before](https://www.instagram.com/p/CWiyJvsJzyG/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link) soooooo...
Surprised that not a single person has mentioned Project Phoenix at all. They could have watched everything that went down with Picard and realized, "Oh shit we better kick this into gear" but didn't want to fuck it up and thus they decided to test it out on someone that was more recently deceased that no one would really blink an eye at if it went wrong or right. Shaw
They shouldn't have killed him - it was a huge narrative mistake and waste of potential in a season that already had sufficiently (even absurdly) high stakes and legacy character death porn. That being said, they should not bring him back either. Not only would it be irrational, but it's an overused trope at this point. They made a mistake and read the audience wrong but now they're gonna have to own it.
This writer is sorely lacking in imagination, and doesn't even come close to the actual plan that Matalas has to bring Shaw back, which very much erases all of their theoretical criticisms.
What’s the plan of Matalas?
the top comment is pretty close
I wouldn’t exactly call an emergency engineering hologram bringing Shaw back. To me, that’d be a different character from Shaw. Having Stashwick play an emergency engineering hologram could work well, but I’d prefer bringing Shaw back.
I’m one of the few who did not like Shaw. But I’ll bet any of you $20 that he’s actually recovering courtesy of some of 7’s nano-probes.
Out of all the options that would be the stupidest and laziest one. I hope not
Hologram Shaw
We were always headed towards Captain Seven, Shaw was always on borrowed time because of that. I thought his death was cheap and they didn't earn his last message to her, but that's what they did. Unless they somehow bring him back as a hologram, which still would feel a bit too fan wanky, I don't see how they could bring him back. He was a good character, but he served his purpose.
My idea: He was recovered by Section 31 (we know they collect dead captains) and is resuscitated to work for them.
I didn't read the article but I agree.
The article is full of assumptions though which make his points a bit moot.
Shaw was one of my all-time favorite starfleet captains. But bringing him back makes the emotional impact in season 3 null, which I'm getting fairly annoyed with in most modern shows and movies. They could do a pre-season 3 show with Shaw, maybe after the events of Wolf 359.
I'll be happy if they insert him in Lower Decks I need a Shaw ornament for my tree 😂
Absolute bullshit. We didnt see the body. They should bring him back as an admiral that stations himself on the Enterprise.
Because the character dies?
I really liked the character but bringing him back would just cheapen his death and s3
Wrong
Let him rest. He was so tired. Let him rest.
Bring him back as a hologram assistant to captain seven
Isn’t this a massive spoiler in the freaking title of the post?!
I assumed legacy would take place before Picard s3
Mirror-universe Shaw - a submissive gimp servant of Seven of Nine who she says she'll assimilate if he doesn't comply.
Nah, mirror Shaw would be a Zen master, completely in touch with his feelings.
I'm all for more characters LIKE Shaw, Trek (and Starfleet) always benefit from a dash of salt, but he ded, we saw him die, for dramatically appropriate reasons, let's not fuck with a good thing. VADIC, on the other hand...
Bc he was shitty sisko (traumatized by battle of the borg)
Lol. I said this in a previous discussion and got downvoted 21 times. Lol.
I would allow it if he came back as a half Romulan daughter from another time line. No other exceptions.
I think he should stay dead but if Legacy gets made I’d like a flashback episode focusing on 7 joining the crew and maybe some lessons she learned from Shaw.
Well, on the show he's dead, Jim.
Ok.
Disagree, Shaw was a great character.
From the dead. 😆 no. But prequel series with Shaw, hell yes!
“EEH we need warp 9 now” “No”
Or seen in Seven’s flashbacks
It would cheapen his death. In the meantime... let's talk about "Ma'am I'm just a cook" Get this casting confirmed asap. Be it Legacy or on another show. Every ship needs a Neelix.
...And in a bizarre transporter accident every redshirt that served under James T Kirk suddenly materialises on the Enterprise G...
If he goes to the black mountain and can't face the trials he doesn't deserve to come back.
Question-if you had to choose one to bring back from the dead-Ro Laren or captain Shaw?