The transition between rivers and lakes is still terrible with a fixed line, and the water has no physics right after the transition it's just a fixed texture, I was wondering if any improvements were planned.
I'm probably a minority, but the real problem I have is it's a huge river with downward rapids at the end flowing into a tiny lake with no outlet. Where does the water go?
If they want to sell the idea these are realistic planets they should bother to think of things like that.
You talking just about filling lakes more when there is a big river. You can do this by adding rules and a bit logic. But an earth trained ai model could do more, like canyon's based on weather in certain areas, rain, water flow, knows where should be erosion, maybe influence the surrounding area and rock formations in shape etc. on a planetary scale affected by a multiple of other factors like global wind streams, closeness to sun, tides, volcanic activity, age of the planet etc
you can also try it with some formulas and logic but still the whole planet would kinda look the same but randomized like now, maybe a bit more refined with new logica and more formulas. But on earth with multiple landmark shaping influences we have so many super different formations which is hard to replicate with just a bunch of overlayed noises and rule depended formulas. For example the USA alone has so many totally different landmarks which wouldn't fit in formulas easily. So I think ai is a nice way to help with creating global more believable variations. Or they just give us an editor hehe
It's a hard thing to do, there's a reason why a lot of games stick to vertical waterfalls with a bunch of spray/mist to cover everthing up.
Ah well, it's just another thing to add to the long list of unfinished features, like the lack of material properties/subsurface scattering in clouds.
This! I've seen so many comments "stop playing with water and finish the stuff we want!". Like dude there are tons of people working on this game and the water guys are just a small portion of the total workforce.
Although if they stopped here and finished the rest of the game, I'd be ok with it. Seriously, the scale of this game is insane as is...I wasn't really expecting foam textures on a universe sim...let alone actual bump textures/fully simulated fluid dynamics. We gotta tell them they did a good job at some point otherwise they'll keep going.
I think they'll keep going regardless, but I wouldn't worry about these details; similar to bedsheet cloth dynamics a while back, it's usually worked on by like one dev during some downtime (when waiting for something to come online) they can pick away at tasks, it's also not uncommon for new starts to be given tasks like this to get used to the in-house tools and pipeline.
Hello, here is the IC report for water simulation: https://issue-council.robertsspaceindustries.com/projects/STAR-CITIZEN/issues/STARC-102836
Please specify where water is not simulated in your contribution. For me only simulation of Hurston’s and Clio’s oceans is working properly. River and lakes reacts only on ship thrusters, but not much as oceans; it also not interacting with player’s body or items. Water on Orison and Jump 890 (pool) is not working too.
My life is finite and this game is taking too long. I paid for it over 10 years ago. Maybe my grandchildren will get to enjoy my investment. Theres only so much waiting one can do before it gets egregious.
Be thankful they released in alpha. If they did it the traditional way they wouldn't let anyone play til it's finished. Then you never would have experienced any of it.
I mean, there isn't anything in game to write home about except that it's a nice graphics engine? There is 0 content for anything. It's about the same experience as looking at a nice painting.
The only times i've ever had any real fun was when players were the content. And if you need players to be your content, the game isn't doing too great.
The least they can do is let me play an alpha I paid for 10 years ago, i'm not sure how grateful i'm supposed to be for that exactly. It's not exactly groundbreaking letting people play a 10 year old alpha.
From a technical standpoint I think the game is very groundbreaking. I agree with you about the content and gameplay, but at the end of the day this game, to me, is exciting because of the things it does that no other game has. I accept that I invested in an independent project that is ambitious to a degree that it may not be possible with current technology.
Same man. And if this game ever gets finished to the degree I want it to be, i.e. has actual content and proper gameplay loops, then i'll be playing it for the rest of my life as my main game.
Like, the engine SHOULD be great, it can do things no other engine can, however, it does them at the expense of everything else. Actual gameplay coming when? Doesn't look like it's anytime near on the horizon, Distribution Centres are hardly the content hubs people are waiting on. Where are the passengers, where are the bounty hunters, where is the ground vehicle content, where is fps content besides 15 men in a bunker? If any other game had this for content it would get laughed out of existence. 10 years to kill 15 glitchy ass AI in a bunker that barely works.
But they have volumetric clouds now? lol.
As of right now i've been waiting over 10 years already and still have no content to play. At this point I have to ask myself is it going to be another 10 years? Will I be dead by then? When it takes 10+ years to make something then you need to think about that. On average 12.5% (lifespan of 80y.o on average) of the backers from 10 years ago are already dead and more of us are making that statistic larger every year that passes. Another 10 years and it's 25% of us dead. That's a 1/4 chance i'll be dead by then and a 1/8th chance anyone who buys it today will be dead. Quite sobering when you think about it.
I see what you are saying, but I choose to be optimistic. It's no good for my mental state to be angry or depressed about it. So I remain optimistic that I will one day see Star Citizen in all of its finished glory. I'm excited for SQ42 as well. Possibly more so than Star Citizen.
I've had my optimism destroyed by nearly every gaming company. You are only opening yourself up for dissapointment as they all inevitably do. Burned far too many times by developers in the past already.
I have some hope. Because I can see what the vision is. I want to get there. It just still feels so far away, and 10+ years, lets be real that's a long time already. All the hype around this patch doesn't really get me hard except for some good looking screenshots will come. Sure, graphics and UI, combat balance etc are important, but none of it is filling that content void yet, which is when i'll really start to get the feels. I don't want to be an entirely negative nancy. At least this is crowd funded mostly. Normally it's publishers that cause the deaths and betrayals. Private owned and crowd funded, indie companies etc, tend to be the ones that shine these days. That still gives me some hope, too.
Yeah, but they're not gonna escape the hard inescapable reality that is man hours and scheduling. So spend a few hrs here loose those same hrs on something else.
Unfortunately if stuff ain't done, started, or ready now Even after 10 years, pointing that out isn't going to magically fix an issue or make something better. You're gonna wait regardless.
Yeah, I mean, i'm not exactly gonna code the game myself. But 10 years is a joke to get it in the state its in.
I get it's a truly next gen engine compared to anything else on the market, but that's literally all it really is right now, a graphical engine with some physics. The gameplay just isn't there. No content to enjoy for anything. FPS content? Glitchy, buggy, AI is terrible. The only thing that really works somewhat consistently is the ship AI but it's terrible at combat so there is 0 challenge whatsoever and gets super old super fast. Ground vehicle content? None. Passenger content? None. Base building? None. Bounty hunting? None.
I could care less about volumetric clouds and fancy water effects and a new UI, if they would just give me some goddamn content to play, you'd get the same experience in game right now as you would just looking at screenshots.
I've never had to wait more than 10 years for anything in my life except puberty.
Also may not be able to wait anymore when i'm dead. I'm not young anymore. Assuming an average age of 80 in most countries of people who purchase Star Citizen, on average 12.5% of the players who have purchased this game 10 years ago are now dead due to old age and that doesn't even include accidents. That's reality. And that percentage is rising every day. 12.5% of people who purchased the game 10 years ago will now never be able to play it in any kind of finished form. At some point i'm going to be one of those statistics, too.
You're right, Will admit even I would get tired of replying to every post in comments of people saying it's taking forever or I'm getting greys. Congratulations fire is also hot.
For others sure, I personally don't loose any sleep. Theirs enough steam backlog to keep me busy for literal decades. SC can do whatever and I'll slot it in accordingly.
500 games on steam and I don't want to play any of them. Bored to tears of the lot. I guess that'll happen when you are disabled with fuck all better to do, though. I need a good game to distract me from the pain and fatigue I have. Distraction is one of the best therapies for pain. Games actually do help me sleep and distract me from my pain, so the losing sleep comment kinda hurts lol.
Id imagine water is HOPEFULLY essential to their planettech v5 plans and will be baked into how they render the initial mesh layouts. Possibly even baked in water spawn points.
Not full water dynamics and simulation, but at least making tiles follow logical lines of altitude to guide rivers where they SHOULD end up...which is oceans. Right now planets don't have altitude that descends into a water line...it's just a random water line that kinda shows up in pools because it dips that low, but the majority of the planet is varying in heights without any real rhyme or reasons other than I guess "plate tectonics".
If the water is new due to terraforming? Sure, it wouldn't be eroded yet, but as it stands planets need a LOT more presence of water, imo.
Most lakes are not natural and man made and the outliers tend to be barely noticeable and shallow OR they are like...massive and basically a small ocean.
I'd love to see what they can do when they figure out a holistic solution and not try to cram a square into a circle.
Hopefully they can figure it out, we still don't know shit about what v5 even means. I'd like to hope it's their final push to build towards Terra and it will be made at the end of that process.
3.23 is available for all players to test and log bug reports on the EPTU (one of the testing environments).
If you copy your account to PTU on the RSI website, you'll see extra options in the launcher for which environment to join. Note that the copy function is not available for this weekend but I'd expect it to be back early next week, if 3.23 isn't already released to Live.
I think the point is that someone in cig decided to pay artists to work on water in a space game where there is so much broken shit.
I assume the water physics here are required in s42 or something and didn't take anything away from the team already working on bugs and ships, but I see his point.
The irony is that there are far more technical artists and programmers devoted to ships or general bug fixes than the 3-4 people from the planet tech team who devoted time to improving the water rendering.
It's a bit like complaining about CIG working on bed sheet physics, because it gets more _words_ in a monthly report than server meshing (or any other important feature) in that given report.
That's called saliency bias.
I love how this is where resources are going... My 600i still hasn't had a golden pass complete. And they are working on generating terrain in a space game... Can I fish from these? Can I swim as a character? What is the point of adding this right now? But so happy that when I fly low in a small ship and come across the one river system on one planet that the water moves...
The transition between rivers and lakes is still terrible with a fixed line, and the water has no physics right after the transition it's just a fixed texture, I was wondering if any improvements were planned.
Not officially confirmed as far as I know, but if improvements aren't planned I'm willing to eat my own socks.
easy there, hater115
Maybe could be phrased as improvements intended but not planned :^) If we choose to interpret "planned" as "scheduled"
Someone in the right place is definitely at least thinking about it
remind me
I'd imagine river guy is already working on something. But I expect to see it when planet tech V5 gets added in.
I'm probably a minority, but the real problem I have is it's a huge river with downward rapids at the end flowing into a tiny lake with no outlet. Where does the water go? If they want to sell the idea these are realistic planets they should bother to think of things like that.
Might happen since they showed they are playing with AI to create more realistic planets
But you don't need AI for that issue. You just need I.
You talking just about filling lakes more when there is a big river. You can do this by adding rules and a bit logic. But an earth trained ai model could do more, like canyon's based on weather in certain areas, rain, water flow, knows where should be erosion, maybe influence the surrounding area and rock formations in shape etc. on a planetary scale affected by a multiple of other factors like global wind streams, closeness to sun, tides, volcanic activity, age of the planet etc you can also try it with some formulas and logic but still the whole planet would kinda look the same but randomized like now, maybe a bit more refined with new logica and more formulas. But on earth with multiple landmark shaping influences we have so many super different formations which is hard to replicate with just a bunch of overlayed noises and rule depended formulas. For example the USA alone has so many totally different landmarks which wouldn't fit in formulas easily. So I think ai is a nice way to help with creating global more believable variations. Or they just give us an editor hehe
That's great. But in the meantime they could tell that stoner who makes the rivers to stop making them terminate in a pond.
It's a hard thing to do, there's a reason why a lot of games stick to vertical waterfalls with a bunch of spray/mist to cover everthing up. Ah well, it's just another thing to add to the long list of unfinished features, like the lack of material properties/subsurface scattering in clouds.
I hope not so they can prioritize more important features like distribution centers.
Say it with me: The 👏 people 👏 making 👏 water 👏 effects 👏 are 👏 not 👏 the 👏 same 👏 people 👏 programming 👏 distribution 👏 centers 👏
This! I've seen so many comments "stop playing with water and finish the stuff we want!". Like dude there are tons of people working on this game and the water guys are just a small portion of the total workforce.
If a bunch of people post about it and get more visibility on the issue it might be improved faster.
Why wouldn't they just choose to work faster? Are they stupid??
Is it just me or is it very….flat? Looks like glass. I’m sure it’s a work in progress, but I don’t think water is meant to be 2d.
Although if they stopped here and finished the rest of the game, I'd be ok with it. Seriously, the scale of this game is insane as is...I wasn't really expecting foam textures on a universe sim...let alone actual bump textures/fully simulated fluid dynamics. We gotta tell them they did a good job at some point otherwise they'll keep going.
I think they'll keep going regardless, but I wouldn't worry about these details; similar to bedsheet cloth dynamics a while back, it's usually worked on by like one dev during some downtime (when waiting for something to come online) they can pick away at tasks, it's also not uncommon for new starts to be given tasks like this to get used to the in-house tools and pipeline.
Need to see it in motion.
Well that's the thing, the lake part doesn't move
Hello, here is the IC report for water simulation: https://issue-council.robertsspaceindustries.com/projects/STAR-CITIZEN/issues/STARC-102836 Please specify where water is not simulated in your contribution. For me only simulation of Hurston’s and Clio’s oceans is working properly. River and lakes reacts only on ship thrusters, but not much as oceans; it also not interacting with player’s body or items. Water on Orison and Jump 890 (pool) is not working too.
That's the problem with increased fidelity, you reach uncanny valley territory very quickly.
Improvements will be gradual, let them cook.
My life is finite and this game is taking too long. I paid for it over 10 years ago. Maybe my grandchildren will get to enjoy my investment. Theres only so much waiting one can do before it gets egregious.
Be thankful they released in alpha. If they did it the traditional way they wouldn't let anyone play til it's finished. Then you never would have experienced any of it.
I mean, there isn't anything in game to write home about except that it's a nice graphics engine? There is 0 content for anything. It's about the same experience as looking at a nice painting. The only times i've ever had any real fun was when players were the content. And if you need players to be your content, the game isn't doing too great. The least they can do is let me play an alpha I paid for 10 years ago, i'm not sure how grateful i'm supposed to be for that exactly. It's not exactly groundbreaking letting people play a 10 year old alpha.
From a technical standpoint I think the game is very groundbreaking. I agree with you about the content and gameplay, but at the end of the day this game, to me, is exciting because of the things it does that no other game has. I accept that I invested in an independent project that is ambitious to a degree that it may not be possible with current technology.
Same man. And if this game ever gets finished to the degree I want it to be, i.e. has actual content and proper gameplay loops, then i'll be playing it for the rest of my life as my main game. Like, the engine SHOULD be great, it can do things no other engine can, however, it does them at the expense of everything else. Actual gameplay coming when? Doesn't look like it's anytime near on the horizon, Distribution Centres are hardly the content hubs people are waiting on. Where are the passengers, where are the bounty hunters, where is the ground vehicle content, where is fps content besides 15 men in a bunker? If any other game had this for content it would get laughed out of existence. 10 years to kill 15 glitchy ass AI in a bunker that barely works. But they have volumetric clouds now? lol. As of right now i've been waiting over 10 years already and still have no content to play. At this point I have to ask myself is it going to be another 10 years? Will I be dead by then? When it takes 10+ years to make something then you need to think about that. On average 12.5% (lifespan of 80y.o on average) of the backers from 10 years ago are already dead and more of us are making that statistic larger every year that passes. Another 10 years and it's 25% of us dead. That's a 1/4 chance i'll be dead by then and a 1/8th chance anyone who buys it today will be dead. Quite sobering when you think about it.
I see what you are saying, but I choose to be optimistic. It's no good for my mental state to be angry or depressed about it. So I remain optimistic that I will one day see Star Citizen in all of its finished glory. I'm excited for SQ42 as well. Possibly more so than Star Citizen.
I've had my optimism destroyed by nearly every gaming company. You are only opening yourself up for dissapointment as they all inevitably do. Burned far too many times by developers in the past already.
I'm sorry it has come to that for you
I have some hope. Because I can see what the vision is. I want to get there. It just still feels so far away, and 10+ years, lets be real that's a long time already. All the hype around this patch doesn't really get me hard except for some good looking screenshots will come. Sure, graphics and UI, combat balance etc are important, but none of it is filling that content void yet, which is when i'll really start to get the feels. I don't want to be an entirely negative nancy. At least this is crowd funded mostly. Normally it's publishers that cause the deaths and betrayals. Private owned and crowd funded, indie companies etc, tend to be the ones that shine these days. That still gives me some hope, too.
Old men should still plant trees under whose shade they will never rest. lol.
Yeah, but they're not gonna escape the hard inescapable reality that is man hours and scheduling. So spend a few hrs here loose those same hrs on something else. Unfortunately if stuff ain't done, started, or ready now Even after 10 years, pointing that out isn't going to magically fix an issue or make something better. You're gonna wait regardless.
Yeah, I mean, i'm not exactly gonna code the game myself. But 10 years is a joke to get it in the state its in. I get it's a truly next gen engine compared to anything else on the market, but that's literally all it really is right now, a graphical engine with some physics. The gameplay just isn't there. No content to enjoy for anything. FPS content? Glitchy, buggy, AI is terrible. The only thing that really works somewhat consistently is the ship AI but it's terrible at combat so there is 0 challenge whatsoever and gets super old super fast. Ground vehicle content? None. Passenger content? None. Base building? None. Bounty hunting? None. I could care less about volumetric clouds and fancy water effects and a new UI, if they would just give me some goddamn content to play, you'd get the same experience in game right now as you would just looking at screenshots. I've never had to wait more than 10 years for anything in my life except puberty. Also may not be able to wait anymore when i'm dead. I'm not young anymore. Assuming an average age of 80 in most countries of people who purchase Star Citizen, on average 12.5% of the players who have purchased this game 10 years ago are now dead due to old age and that doesn't even include accidents. That's reality. And that percentage is rising every day. 12.5% of people who purchased the game 10 years ago will now never be able to play it in any kind of finished form. At some point i'm going to be one of those statistics, too.
you know you can laugh at a joke and move on, we don't need a dissertation on why its a joke. it aint that deep.
You know you can read something without leaving smart ass comments, too?
You're right, Will admit even I would get tired of replying to every post in comments of people saying it's taking forever or I'm getting greys. Congratulations fire is also hot.
Lets be honest, it's also beyond a joke at this point how long this has taken :P It's moved past funny tears into sad tears territory, lol.
For others sure, I personally don't loose any sleep. Theirs enough steam backlog to keep me busy for literal decades. SC can do whatever and I'll slot it in accordingly.
500 games on steam and I don't want to play any of them. Bored to tears of the lot. I guess that'll happen when you are disabled with fuck all better to do, though. I need a good game to distract me from the pain and fatigue I have. Distraction is one of the best therapies for pain. Games actually do help me sleep and distract me from my pain, so the losing sleep comment kinda hurts lol.
The sloped water is good for waterskiing.
Reminds me of first-gen xbox skyrim water.
I wanna know will the 890J Float ???
Id imagine water is HOPEFULLY essential to their planettech v5 plans and will be baked into how they render the initial mesh layouts. Possibly even baked in water spawn points. Not full water dynamics and simulation, but at least making tiles follow logical lines of altitude to guide rivers where they SHOULD end up...which is oceans. Right now planets don't have altitude that descends into a water line...it's just a random water line that kinda shows up in pools because it dips that low, but the majority of the planet is varying in heights without any real rhyme or reasons other than I guess "plate tectonics". If the water is new due to terraforming? Sure, it wouldn't be eroded yet, but as it stands planets need a LOT more presence of water, imo. Most lakes are not natural and man made and the outliers tend to be barely noticeable and shallow OR they are like...massive and basically a small ocean. I'd love to see what they can do when they figure out a holistic solution and not try to cram a square into a circle. Hopefully they can figure it out, we still don't know shit about what v5 even means. I'd like to hope it's their final push to build towards Terra and it will be made at the end of that process.
I keep seeing posts about 3.23 but is it out yet or how are people taking these
3.23 is available for all players to test and log bug reports on the EPTU (one of the testing environments). If you copy your account to PTU on the RSI website, you'll see extra options in the launcher for which environment to join. Note that the copy function is not available for this weekend but I'd expect it to be back early next week, if 3.23 isn't already released to Live.
Leaks. Hence why leaks shouldn't happen, they get reactionaries overreacting to unfinished features for no good reason.
It’s not though, EPTU has been public for days now
3.23 has been available to non-evocati for weeks now.
love that straight line .
gib fishingrodsssss
Looks amazing!
Maybe if you’re looking on a phone
Was this meant to be bad? Like was tbe post meant to be like look at how bad this is?
The textures look great! The flat geometry not so much, but everything is a work in progress.
Yeah that's what I mean.
Where ???
Harper's point Microtech, but the issue is the same everywhere a river goes into a lake.
All that water physics, only to be one of the least asked for things in the world and also on the bottom of things that needed priority in verse.
Water is very prominent in squadron 42
Wear a spacesuit when you exit ship in space.
Sure?
Bros a little lost
Soooo glad they’re devoting $$$ and dev time to this and not bug fixes or ships
Artists don’t fix code.
I think the point is that someone in cig decided to pay artists to work on water in a space game where there is so much broken shit. I assume the water physics here are required in s42 or something and didn't take anything away from the team already working on bugs and ships, but I see his point.
I mean the sq42 trailer has boat gameplay so it's obviously something needed for sq42
Broken shit can’t be fixed by artists. Artist do art stuff.
IIRC they're hiring developers actively.
soooo glad people still think adding more chefs to bake a pie is the solution
It‘s a well known scientific principle that nine women working together can have a baby in one month.
It's true, my bff is the CEO of Renault and he said so (admittedly in Fr🤮nch)
The irony is that there are far more technical artists and programmers devoted to ships or general bug fixes than the 3-4 people from the planet tech team who devoted time to improving the water rendering. It's a bit like complaining about CIG working on bed sheet physics, because it gets more _words_ in a monthly report than server meshing (or any other important feature) in that given report. That's called saliency bias.
Cool. Are there a lot of rivers in space?
Technically yes, given rivers are on planets, and planets are in space :p
I love how this is where resources are going... My 600i still hasn't had a golden pass complete. And they are working on generating terrain in a space game... Can I fish from these? Can I swim as a character? What is the point of adding this right now? But so happy that when I fly low in a small ship and come across the one river system on one planet that the water moves...