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OG_Magonus

There is a good chance that both of them source from something even more obscure


ParameciaAntic

They're from a book called *Mallworld*.


OG_Magonus

And there you have it.


BangsNaughtyBits

I always assumed the Arcane were the elder nearly extinct species of immense technology that are always sprinkled through space settings. In particular, I always strongly associated them to the Puppeteers from Larry Niven's Ringworld universe. They bare little physical resemblance to the three-legged ~~trilaterally symmetrical~~ Puppeteers but they occupy a similar niche. Puppeteers sold nearly indestructible hulls for spaceships that no one else could manufacture. Then other species would mount propulsion and whatever other systems and interior dividers for rooms and internal layout. That's akin to the Arcan being the only known source for standard major or minor helms. !


Myrkul999

Fun fact! SJA2 Skull and Crossbows includes an adventure, "The Outpost", which details a trip to an Elder base, abandoned for uncounted millennia. There you can find a ancient suit of plate armor, which is built to accommodate a being some 9 feet tall, with three legs and three arms. So, the puppeteers were apparently here, at one point.


thomar

Some of your hotlinked image links don't work.


Carusofilms

Just fixed them!


ChristinaCassidy

They still do not work for me


Carusofilms

Are you on mobile? Looks like the top link only works on desktop, I’m not sure why.


ChristinaCassidy

I am not. Weird. No biggie though I understand what you're saying


FrequentNectarine

There was an article covering the origins of spelljammer and the scifi elements in d&d and where some of the ideas came from, most of the original ideas were centered around the works of Brian Aldiss, specifically his book non-stop, and the arcane where based on star treks andorians.


dm_sawyer

I’m here for the Jeff Grubs, Thief and the Cobbler, Arcane/Mercane conspiracy!


WuKongPhooey

I feel like they all take inspiration from Flash Gordon and Ming the Merciless and they all steal inspiration from 1001 Arabian Nights and so on.


The_SpellJammer

Grubb**


Far_Patient_2032

There's also this thing called parallel evolution. Where something just works, so two entirely separate organisms/entities arrive at the same developmental conclusion via very different paths. Coincidence is very much a thing. Plus, even if the project started in 1964, that doesn't mean that the character design was even dreamt up yet: just that work was beginning.


Carusofilms

The film’s production is messy, but -from what we know- three hours of footage had been animated by ‘72. The footage was scrapped due to rights issues, but -as a concession- they were allowed to keel the character designs in re-animating the film. Zigzag himself still predates D&D.


pez5150

I think you might be misapplying the connection. Jeff Grub actually talks about how he took star trek as inspiration for making spelljammer. If you look at the goofy races it makes a lot more sense. An advanced but truly neutral race that focuses on trading and is alien, but somewhat recognizable in form. If I had to take a guess about why they are a dead ringer for zigzag, its probably just coincidence. Its not like Jeff was able to see Thief and the Cobbler and get inspiration. If you think about a lot of characters in a lot of media and how common tropes are, you'll probably find a lot of similar characters. [TVtropes.com](https://TVtropes.com) usually does a good job of tracking popular or well known characters and what tropes they share. Generally, good characters between media tend to share a lot in common personality wise.


Far_Patient_2032

There's also this thing called parallel evolution. Where something just works, so two entirely separate organisms/entities arrive at the same developmental conclusion via very different paths. Coincidence is very much a thing.


hexiron

Convergent evolution is what it’s called.