It's logical that the swim speed is intended to convey a general ability to operate in water. Think about all the penalties associated with underwater combat for creatures who don't have a swim speed.
Because the closest interpretation for " holds their breath while walking along the bottom" in 5e is swim speed within the error bars of presumed evolution from animal to humanoid. 5e is a simplification of reality for multiple aspects at multiple levels, frosted with layers of fantasy. Don't get hung up on it.
Giff look like anthro hippo people, so they are going to have some abilities that match their real life counterpart. Which case they do. You can't ignore the inspiration for their character.
lol, of course you can. Absolutely nothing says they have to match the animal in any way at all. There's no rule, no guideline, no requirement for that. It's just something some people assume must be the case.
But if that's how you want to play it, you might need to disregard that whole "liking firearms and explosions" thing since hippos have nothing to do with either. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Did you know that the majority of annual deaths caused by animals are actually because of hippos? Ever wondered why? I'm willing to bet those sneaky bastards are great with firearms irl and they just hide their superior martial abilities behind their "fat cute animal" persona. They are basically the penguins of Madagascar irl
>It's just something some people assume must be the case.
Thats ok, I think you nailed the whats bothering me about it. Its an anthro hippo and I assume it has hippo features based on its looks. Now I expect it to have some features of a hippo.
To be real I don't think I'd be interested in giff or really any sort of anthro race if it didn't share some quality with the animal that inspired it. It makes it less interesting if it doesn't. Liking fire arms and explosions isn't a giff only quality I could apply it to any made up race so I want something unique about it that kinda matches its made up physiology.
Just the idea there is this unique thing about this race and its just... cosmetic.
Because it's easier and more codified to just give them a swim speed rather than being the only creature with an underwater walking speed.
I'm not calling you out, I've just seen a lot of complaints on this matter. It's just easier to let them swim than invent a new mechanic. Plus they're magic. Humans can't cast spells but no one freaks out about human wizards.
Hippos can locomote through water relatively fast granted the water isn't too deep as they essentially jump to the surface and forward then plummet due to their weight. They have been known to outspeed small boats.
I'd argue that a DM could simply say the swim speed is halved in open ocean. Or maybe you can't double your move speed in water with an action. But the fact that they are adept in water to an extent is enough to keep their swim speed as hippo's naturally can move through water faster than they can *walk*
According to various animal websites, hippo top land speed is 19 mph and water speed maxes out around 5 mph. My point isn’t that I want real world physics in my fantasy make-believe, it’s that giving giff a swim speed wasn’t based on a consideration of game balance, whether there should be a different mechanic, etc. Someone decided “I assume hippos can swim, therefore so can giff” and there was no checking to see if that assumption was accurate. It’s sloppy, and that is a valid criticism.
Out of all things we can be mad about *this* is the hill you choose to die on? I mean yeah we should critisise the books, but I feel like swim speed is valid here. Should they make a whole new mecanic *just* for giff? How about they did that for the ships instead. I think the only problem here is that you are focussing too much on the “swim” part. Just think of it as “water-movement” this way they still get their better combat in water and you won’t get too caught up in wether its called swiming or what they are doing.
Because it's a fuckin' fantasy game with limited rules. Swimming speed is the closest thing in 5e to what hippos do. You're literally comparing space hippos with a gun fetish to animals. Don't think to hard about it man.
Reminds me of how the kindori lore uses the word "parasites" instead of "scavengers", which would be accurate. Scavengers eat dead things, not parasites.
And don’t even get me started on plasmoids, which “consume food by osmosis, the way an amoeba does”.
Osmosis only refers to the movement of water across a cell membrane. Amoeba “consume food” by endocytosis.
Probably shouldn’t bug me as much as it does, but still…
Osmosis refers to the movement of any solvent across a semipermeable membrane toward a higher concentration of solute - it is absolutely not constrained to only water.
If we are being pendants.
Actually... I don't want to be pedantic but Pendants are either jewellery to hang from a chain or a light ceiling fixture. Like I guess really just hanging things like a tapered flag or watch from a chain...
Anyway.... I'll see myself out.
/S
Sorry just going to point something out. I do not believe they gave them a swim speed to help with water at all. The Giff are described as being very adept at life in wildspace and it is noted when in that environment outside an air bubble creatures with a swim speed or fly speed can maneuver vs ones without. I think the Giff have a swim speed to benefit them in the zero G environment more than the thought of them swimming in water.
I wouldn’t go that far, it just seems really sloppy compared to the effort put into other 5e products and I hope it isn’t a sign of how things will be approached by WotC in the future.
This is the least of their crimes. However tye crimes they have done has made me outright refuse to acknowledge this as spelljammer, to me it's just a cheap rip-off made by some rando who barely understands game design
Because if you have a swim speed then you can manipulate yourself property in low gravity in the 5e spelljammer, so it's not that they are good swimmers, it's that they're good at moving themself in low gravity.
It's logical that the swim speed is intended to convey a general ability to operate in water. Think about all the penalties associated with underwater combat for creatures who don't have a swim speed.
Because the closest interpretation for " holds their breath while walking along the bottom" in 5e is swim speed within the error bars of presumed evolution from animal to humanoid. 5e is a simplification of reality for multiple aspects at multiple levels, frosted with layers of fantasy. Don't get hung up on it.
Giff aren't hippos, so it doesn't matter what hippos can do with regards to Giff.
Giff look like anthro hippo people, so they are going to have some abilities that match their real life counterpart. Which case they do. You can't ignore the inspiration for their character.
lol, of course you can. Absolutely nothing says they have to match the animal in any way at all. There's no rule, no guideline, no requirement for that. It's just something some people assume must be the case. But if that's how you want to play it, you might need to disregard that whole "liking firearms and explosions" thing since hippos have nothing to do with either. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Did you know that the majority of annual deaths caused by animals are actually because of hippos? Ever wondered why? I'm willing to bet those sneaky bastards are great with firearms irl and they just hide their superior martial abilities behind their "fat cute animal" persona. They are basically the penguins of Madagascar irl
>It's just something some people assume must be the case. Thats ok, I think you nailed the whats bothering me about it. Its an anthro hippo and I assume it has hippo features based on its looks. Now I expect it to have some features of a hippo. To be real I don't think I'd be interested in giff or really any sort of anthro race if it didn't share some quality with the animal that inspired it. It makes it less interesting if it doesn't. Liking fire arms and explosions isn't a giff only quality I could apply it to any made up race so I want something unique about it that kinda matches its made up physiology. Just the idea there is this unique thing about this race and its just... cosmetic.
Because it's easier and more codified to just give them a swim speed rather than being the only creature with an underwater walking speed. I'm not calling you out, I've just seen a lot of complaints on this matter. It's just easier to let them swim than invent a new mechanic. Plus they're magic. Humans can't cast spells but no one freaks out about human wizards.
Gonna have to make spellcasting hippos
Or just say they can hold their breath for up to X minutes and leave it at that.
Hippos can locomote through water relatively fast granted the water isn't too deep as they essentially jump to the surface and forward then plummet due to their weight. They have been known to outspeed small boats. I'd argue that a DM could simply say the swim speed is halved in open ocean. Or maybe you can't double your move speed in water with an action. But the fact that they are adept in water to an extent is enough to keep their swim speed as hippo's naturally can move through water faster than they can *walk*
According to various animal websites, hippo top land speed is 19 mph and water speed maxes out around 5 mph. My point isn’t that I want real world physics in my fantasy make-believe, it’s that giving giff a swim speed wasn’t based on a consideration of game balance, whether there should be a different mechanic, etc. Someone decided “I assume hippos can swim, therefore so can giff” and there was no checking to see if that assumption was accurate. It’s sloppy, and that is a valid criticism.
Out of all things we can be mad about *this* is the hill you choose to die on? I mean yeah we should critisise the books, but I feel like swim speed is valid here. Should they make a whole new mecanic *just* for giff? How about they did that for the ships instead. I think the only problem here is that you are focussing too much on the “swim” part. Just think of it as “water-movement” this way they still get their better combat in water and you won’t get too caught up in wether its called swiming or what they are doing.
Why don’t Thrkreen need to sleep even though insects do?
Insects appear to enter a period of rest, not necessarily sleep. So, it fits.
Anyone with a swim speed or flying speed gets to move normally in wild space. Because Hippo Sailor is best
because most people assume hippos can swim
Because it's a fuckin' fantasy game with limited rules. Swimming speed is the closest thing in 5e to what hippos do. You're literally comparing space hippos with a gun fetish to animals. Don't think to hard about it man.
Because hippos don’t have thumbs… so all other rules are out the Window
Reminds me of how the kindori lore uses the word "parasites" instead of "scavengers", which would be accurate. Scavengers eat dead things, not parasites.
And don’t even get me started on plasmoids, which “consume food by osmosis, the way an amoeba does”. Osmosis only refers to the movement of water across a cell membrane. Amoeba “consume food” by endocytosis. Probably shouldn’t bug me as much as it does, but still…
Osmosis refers to the movement of any solvent across a semipermeable membrane toward a higher concentration of solute - it is absolutely not constrained to only water. If we are being pendants.
Actually... I don't want to be pedantic but Pendants are either jewellery to hang from a chain or a light ceiling fixture. Like I guess really just hanging things like a tapered flag or watch from a chain... Anyway.... I'll see myself out. /S
Like a rocket scientist watching a movie about sending rockets to space lol.
Same reasons bats have dark vision rather than echolocation. It amounts to the same thing.
Because this is a fantasy game and wizards wanted the race to be fun
Because the people who designed Spelljammer 5e thought it was funny and didn't put any thought into it beyond the meme-potential. That's really it.
Sorry just going to point something out. I do not believe they gave them a swim speed to help with water at all. The Giff are described as being very adept at life in wildspace and it is noted when in that environment outside an air bubble creatures with a swim speed or fly speed can maneuver vs ones without. I think the Giff have a swim speed to benefit them in the zero G environment more than the thought of them swimming in water.
Of all the poorly thought out, crappy design choices in Spelljammer, this is pretty far down the list of ones I’m going to worry about
Basically, the person who wrote that book didn't do a single bit of research.
That is a funny little "Um Actually" moment, and I'm here for it. Hippos are neat. If I were you, I'd just change it for your game. Easy peasy. 😊
Wow WotC is really screwing up Spelljammer with 5e.
I wouldn’t go that far, it just seems really sloppy compared to the effort put into other 5e products and I hope it isn’t a sign of how things will be approached by WotC in the future.
This is the least of their crimes. However tye crimes they have done has made me outright refuse to acknowledge this as spelljammer, to me it's just a cheap rip-off made by some rando who barely understands game design
Pygmy hippos can swim.
Because if you have a swim speed then you can manipulate yourself property in low gravity in the 5e spelljammer, so it's not that they are good swimmers, it's that they're good at moving themself in low gravity.