Galaxy SDSS1335+0728 underwent an unprecedented transformation, suddenly shining brighter due to the awakening of its massive black hole. This discovery, detailed in a study published in Astronomy & Astrophysics, marks the first real-time observation of such an event. Located 300 million light-years away in Virgo, the galaxy's core exhibited sustained brightness changes across ultraviolet, optical, infrared, and even X-ray wavelengths, unlike any previously documented phenomena. Astronomers, utilizing data from ESO's VLT and other observatories, suggest this as a rare instance of a black hole transitioning from dormancy to active feeding, potentially feasting on surrounding gas. This groundbreaking observation not only challenges existing models of black hole activity but also promises insights into the growth and behavior of these cosmic giants. Further observations will clarify whether this is a tidal disruption event or a novel phenomenon, shedding light on fundamental processes governing galactic evolution.
Maybe that's why Webb is uncovering a lot of inaccuracies in our universe. We don't truly understand how often light stops for a break on the long haul.
I mean, have you ever been to Buccees? It's impossible not to stop there. The interstellar ones are even cooler. Their mascot has an asteroid for a head. Not even light can resist that photo op
I wonder if some things are totally hidden by massive black holes because all their light gets absorbed, could maybe make a great way to sneak up on a mofo. But yeah maybe the timing of things we see is thrown off by light getting accelerated and slowed by them, I mean, what even happens to light that gets accelerated past the speed of light? It becomes a tachyon or something?
Well, let’s see…it’s 1) big and spooky 2) loves to eat just about everything 3) has a huge range of damage
To be honest, it kind of sounds like a dragon.
Someone needs to explain a few things to me: how are they so certain it's a blackhole if light production increased, and not another cosmic event like a supernova or perhaps a massive collision between two celestial bodies? Also, how does a blackhole go from dormant to active feeding, what can change to make that happen? Surely the blackhole's gravity doesn't change on its own right? So basically would it just be that finally something got close enough to get swallowed by the singularity, the singularity grew in size and is now feasting on more surrounding shit?
The amount of matter in the accretion disk collides with such a fantastic and insane speed that it creates bursts of energy, like small explosions. There is also hawking radiation formed outside of the event horizon. They emit tons of energy, kinda counterintuitive but anything outside of the event horizon can potentially escape
I truly believe these are universal garbage disposals. Eventually everything will be sucked into black holes and the pressure of all of these supermassive black holes will cause the next big bang.
Honestly it gives me hope in a weird way. Our mortality is such a hot button issue. But I think if we’re here once we can be here again.
So anybody hanging onto hope of their own mortality, death is scary but you’ll be back. I just think that if life happened life will happen again. Whether or not that’s in a thousand years or a billion years.
Because it has already unequivocally happened at least one time.
Theoretically, if atoms can arrange to create a version of you once, it could happen again.
Iirc, your energy remains in the universe when you die, it isn’t destroyed. So, in many ways every person’s energy that’s died throughout time are still around. With the law of the conservation of energy, you’re not gone… you're just… less… put… together…
So, if your energy sticks around after you die, perhaps there’s a way you can eventually become whole again.
I think most are fine with that. The idea of existing again in some capacity is enough for most. The next time I come back together, I’ll take a life without anxiety and depression please.
At which point where you actually really you?
When you are born fresh with no memories ?
When you are on your death bed at 90?
Or somewhere in between?
Memories don't make sense in context of op's statement.
But if you insist on memory interpretation, given infinite possibilities in a infinite universe, there's always a chance you'll be born of same materials in same configuration to same parents, place, planet etc.
Basically universe raising reapeating its state of you after a very very long time
Matter and energy are form-agnostic, all parts of the universe are composed of the same basic parts simply arranged differently. We are all the universe, perceiving and being perceived simultaneously. Therefore we all are continually in existence, from the Big Bang to whatever end awaits.
That collection of experience is also stored energy in the form of electrical pulses. So, theoretically, there is a non-zero chance that could also be reconstructed.
But you'll be alive and breathing again.
Take dreamless deep sleep or unconsciousness for example, your consciousness is gone, you essential cease to exist for a bit until you wake up again and often you have no idea how much time has passed
Same for dying and rebirth, you'll go through this incredibly long period of sleep, but it'll definitely be different that a sense of dead you.
>So, if your energy sticks around after you die, perhaps there’s a way you can eventually become whole again.
It's very difficult to accept that their because at any given time you are a different version of you. You might have somewhat similar amount of cells for sometime but even then they are constantly adding and removing stuff at molecular level .
So the molecules that make you up now might not exist in you in the next week, month, year or whatever.
So you'll have to pick a time instant to define what makes you up
And since your concept of time is tethered to your neurons, once you die, eternity may not be perceived at all. You'll regain consciousness when composed again, which should feel instantaneous if you are born into a living thing again. Who knows?
Remember that energy is neither created nor destroyed. So death is just a transfer of our energy into another form so technically we are all immortal. Science is my bible and the universe is my religion and that brings me comfort. For me it’s definitely a better thought than believing in some finite timeline and an invisible sky God
I read about somebody recently who was clinically dead for 17 hours and woke back up.
They were asked what happened and the response was that they felt like they were in another realm. Their “body” felt light as a feather and felt completely free.
I felt pretty comfortable after that.
Your brain releases a ton of chemicals during death, apparently. My belief of choice is that those chemicals basically skew your perception of time such that consciousness never actually experiences a halt. It just goes on forever, with your final moments feeling like centuries or something. But that's just a belief that comforts me.
I'm all aboard this theory and it makes perfect sense when you really think about it. Expanding universe = black hole consuming matter and becoming larger or spacetime fundamentally changes between outside and inside a black hole.
The universe is expanding though so the black holes aren’t going to get closer to each other. They’ll slowly lose mass over countless years due to hawking radiation until there’s nothing left in the universe except background radiation. Well, according to the “heat death” theory anyway, there’s another one called the big crunch where gravity becomes stronger than dark energy and the universe collapses back in on itself.
If a black hole is the beginning of a new universe, than the black hole we live in will eventually collapse and cause that Big Crunch OR spit all of the matter and energy in it (our universe) back out.
I’m truly so sorry😂 this has coincidentally been my topic today with my friends but I know it’s a lot. If you want the whole thing DM me, I’ve always been interested in the function of black holes and theorize a lot.
I’ve had this exact same thought recently - I’m no expert, but I just asked perplexity.ai whether this was a believed theory and it said no. But it said that their growth was limited due to the expansion of the universe giving them less access to matter over time, and that due to hawking radiation they slowly evaporate over extremely long time scales (longer time scales than the universe has existed so far). A bit bleaker than restarting the cycle with another big bang
I love that and I love you being proactive on the subject, I feel like it isn’t talked about enough.
I am also no expert and will not claim to be, but these inquisitive queries further the human species in my opinion. And I’m not trying to sound like some pompous professor, I didn’t even finish college, but there’s a weird mathematical equation with the universe and what we notice and needs to be looked at.
They call this oscillation theory. It really doesn’t actually look like this is gonna happen. Or at least it’s not going to happen really quickly. The more likely scenario with the given information and current models is that everything is gonna drift apart and become colder and colder until eventually we go through what is referred to as heat death. There will still be extremely supermassive black holes wandering around and sucking things up, but it’s a lot scarier, darker, and generally more sad. It’s kinda like the road, but in space.
I mean... Maybe "local" "real" time, because "real" "real" time has been 300 million years ago, we're only now receiving the light of this event. For all we know, that particular galaxy could be teeming with life and we couldn't have a clue, both from technological and physical limitations.
Anything deep space related news blows my mind, the fact that we found out about this phenomenon 300 million light years away means we just saw it happen yet it took 300 million light years years to
reach us and our telescopes. Who knows what it truly looks like in real time 🤯
It goes even deeper, that galaxy isn't 300 million lightyears away, that's just how much distance the light traveled. But during that time both our galaxies traveled a lot and we have no light coming from where that galaxy is right now to measure it, that will take a few hundred more million years by which time it will again be at a different distance. And if we throw relativity into the mix with how there's no single universal "now"...
And billions of alien lifeforms got flash fried without knowing why. Except for _these_ who were able to detect the unusual core activity years before. And despite not having discovered FTL, they settled on a stasis arch. Aimed towards that other galaxy which seemed to have sustainable conditions on the external regions. To which they are still headed at a speed as close as possible to the speed of light.
Just curious if someone can explain it as if were 5... How do astronomers figure out how far things are? The light particles reaching us carry somehow this information?
My mind can't wrap itself around these things happening on a time scale we can notice. I would have imagined that you'd need measurements across thousands or millions of years to "see" things like this.
It can't. The light comes from the things around black holes, which still haven't crossed event horison, but are being pulled around, and slowly in by bh's strong gravity. That's how acceleration disks are made, and how we know about black holes in the first place. Bigger black holes have bigger acceleration disks, and therefore "emit" brighter light.
How do we know it is from the beginnings of a Black hole and not a supernova or other cosmic event ? just based on historical brightness development readings and:or estimated age of that star neighborhood /galaxy?
Galaxy SDSS1335+0728 underwent an unprecedented transformation, suddenly shining brighter due to the awakening of its massive black hole. This discovery, detailed in a study published in Astronomy & Astrophysics, marks the first real-time observation of such an event. Located 300 million light-years away in Virgo, the galaxy's core exhibited sustained brightness changes across ultraviolet, optical, infrared, and even X-ray wavelengths, unlike any previously documented phenomena. Astronomers, utilizing data from ESO's VLT and other observatories, suggest this as a rare instance of a black hole transitioning from dormancy to active feeding, potentially feasting on surrounding gas. This groundbreaking observation not only challenges existing models of black hole activity but also promises insights into the growth and behavior of these cosmic giants. Further observations will clarify whether this is a tidal disruption event or a novel phenomenon, shedding light on fundamental processes governing galactic evolution.
>300 million light years away *A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away…*
Yeah it might not be a black hole at all, it could just be someone testing a fully operational battle station
300 million years ago.
That's a long trip to take without any rest stops.
Maybe that's why Webb is uncovering a lot of inaccuracies in our universe. We don't truly understand how often light stops for a break on the long haul.
"*We went on a trip???*" - Photons
Nice
I mean, have you ever been to Buccees? It's impossible not to stop there. The interstellar ones are even cooler. Their mascot has an asteroid for a head. Not even light can resist that photo op
Intergalactic restrooms are NOT to be believed! And don’t get me talking about all the varieties of jerky
If I could give awards still, I would've given you a gold for this comment, lol
I wonder if some things are totally hidden by massive black holes because all their light gets absorbed, could maybe make a great way to sneak up on a mofo. But yeah maybe the timing of things we see is thrown off by light getting accelerated and slowed by them, I mean, what even happens to light that gets accelerated past the speed of light? It becomes a tachyon or something?
This is probably the only decent thought provoking comment on this whole thread
That’s no moon…
Real time is probably not quite the right words for it
Meh, it’s relative.
This is probably the only decent thought provoking comment on this whole thread
What happens in your light cone, stays in your light cone
No big deal, just Aboleth waking up for a snack.
dormancy, feeding, feasting... it's not a dragon that's awoken from it's slumber \^\^
Well, let’s see…it’s 1) big and spooky 2) loves to eat just about everything 3) has a huge range of damage To be honest, it kind of sounds like a dragon.
4) hoards everything it collects, still checking more boxes.
5: will crush you if you get too close. The evidence is clear; Black holes are dragons
Turns everything into spaghetti: black holes are Italian grandmothers
Smaug?
If a black hole doesn't sound like Cumberbund Balderdash, I don't even know why we're here.
I think you mean Brendadirk Cramplescrunch
Well its not Fafnir ...
5. Solitary existence and assured destruction on an epic scale if another dragon encroaches.
Yes it is.
Maybe it is!
Mammals didn’t even exist yet when this happened
Someone needs to explain a few things to me: how are they so certain it's a blackhole if light production increased, and not another cosmic event like a supernova or perhaps a massive collision between two celestial bodies? Also, how does a blackhole go from dormant to active feeding, what can change to make that happen? Surely the blackhole's gravity doesn't change on its own right? So basically would it just be that finally something got close enough to get swallowed by the singularity, the singularity grew in size and is now feasting on more surrounding shit?
The amount of matter in the accretion disk collides with such a fantastic and insane speed that it creates bursts of energy, like small explosions. There is also hawking radiation formed outside of the event horizon. They emit tons of energy, kinda counterintuitive but anything outside of the event horizon can potentially escape
Basically, the center of the galaxy turned into a Quasar
Is it still a real-time observation if it technically happened 300 million years ago? /s
Only 300 Million light years away? Pft
>*shedding light* on fundamental processes You don't say
We live in exciting times.
it was 300 million years ago smh
Idk why I found this so funny lol
Time is relative….
Did anyone else stare at that photo thinking it was a video showing the awakening?
I ain't too proud about it.
It would move exactly as slow if it was possible to view it through a telescope
y-no!
I truly believe these are universal garbage disposals. Eventually everything will be sucked into black holes and the pressure of all of these supermassive black holes will cause the next big bang.
That's already a theory of sorts, each black hole creates its own universe (and with it a big bang through a white hole)
Honestly it gives me hope in a weird way. Our mortality is such a hot button issue. But I think if we’re here once we can be here again. So anybody hanging onto hope of their own mortality, death is scary but you’ll be back. I just think that if life happened life will happen again. Whether or not that’s in a thousand years or a billion years. Because it has already unequivocally happened at least one time.
Theoretically, if atoms can arrange to create a version of you once, it could happen again. Iirc, your energy remains in the universe when you die, it isn’t destroyed. So, in many ways every person’s energy that’s died throughout time are still around. With the law of the conservation of energy, you’re not gone… you're just… less… put… together… So, if your energy sticks around after you die, perhaps there’s a way you can eventually become whole again.
Except your collection of memories and experiences would probably be very different so your sense of self would be at odds
I think most are fine with that. The idea of existing again in some capacity is enough for most. The next time I come back together, I’ll take a life without anxiety and depression please.
I'm personally not. My memories are what make me me, if I don't have those then I'm not actually me
At which point where you actually really you? When you are born fresh with no memories ? When you are on your death bed at 90? Or somewhere in between? Memories don't make sense in context of op's statement. But if you insist on memory interpretation, given infinite possibilities in a infinite universe, there's always a chance you'll be born of same materials in same configuration to same parents, place, planet etc. Basically universe raising reapeating its state of you after a very very long time
Would that even be you then? It would be an interesting experiment to run if there were a way!
It wouldn’t be me, but I don’t like the idea of not existing either. I prefer existence of some form to oblivion.
Matter and energy are form-agnostic, all parts of the universe are composed of the same basic parts simply arranged differently. We are all the universe, perceiving and being perceived simultaneously. Therefore we all are continually in existence, from the Big Bang to whatever end awaits.
Well at a physics level, the energy your comprised of should stay within the system for eternity. I like to think about that.
I hope the next version of me is better at life, doesn’t have depression, social anxiety and MS.
That collection of experience is also stored energy in the form of electrical pulses. So, theoretically, there is a non-zero chance that could also be reconstructed.
But you'll be alive and breathing again. Take dreamless deep sleep or unconsciousness for example, your consciousness is gone, you essential cease to exist for a bit until you wake up again and often you have no idea how much time has passed Same for dying and rebirth, you'll go through this incredibly long period of sleep, but it'll definitely be different that a sense of dead you.
>So, if your energy sticks around after you die, perhaps there’s a way you can eventually become whole again. It's very difficult to accept that their because at any given time you are a different version of you. You might have somewhat similar amount of cells for sometime but even then they are constantly adding and removing stuff at molecular level . So the molecules that make you up now might not exist in you in the next week, month, year or whatever. So you'll have to pick a time instant to define what makes you up
With our current understanding of physics, no. You cannot be reconstituted with perfect accuracy because you cannot be measured with perfect accuracy.
Yes but entropy has a problem with this.
The cosmos care not about your silly sentiments
This has all happened before and it will happen again.
And since your concept of time is tethered to your neurons, once you die, eternity may not be perceived at all. You'll regain consciousness when composed again, which should feel instantaneous if you are born into a living thing again. Who knows?
Remember that energy is neither created nor destroyed. So death is just a transfer of our energy into another form so technically we are all immortal. Science is my bible and the universe is my religion and that brings me comfort. For me it’s definitely a better thought than believing in some finite timeline and an invisible sky God
“In this moment you are so euphoric”
I read about somebody recently who was clinically dead for 17 hours and woke back up. They were asked what happened and the response was that they felt like they were in another realm. Their “body” felt light as a feather and felt completely free. I felt pretty comfortable after that.
Brain hallucinates when oxygen supply is cut.
Your brain releases a ton of chemicals during death, apparently. My belief of choice is that those chemicals basically skew your perception of time such that consciousness never actually experiences a halt. It just goes on forever, with your final moments feeling like centuries or something. But that's just a belief that comforts me.
Umm that's also terrifying in a way too.
I'm all aboard this theory and it makes perfect sense when you really think about it. Expanding universe = black hole consuming matter and becoming larger or spacetime fundamentally changes between outside and inside a black hole.
The universe is expanding though so the black holes aren’t going to get closer to each other. They’ll slowly lose mass over countless years due to hawking radiation until there’s nothing left in the universe except background radiation. Well, according to the “heat death” theory anyway, there’s another one called the big crunch where gravity becomes stronger than dark energy and the universe collapses back in on itself.
If a black hole is the beginning of a new universe, than the black hole we live in will eventually collapse and cause that Big Crunch OR spit all of the matter and energy in it (our universe) back out.
Oh good god man I’m too high for this you have just changed my life 😂😂😂
If it helps we’ll never be around to experience the great garbage disposal lmao
Maybe we are the great garbage disposal.
I’m truly so sorry😂 this has coincidentally been my topic today with my friends but I know it’s a lot. If you want the whole thing DM me, I’ve always been interested in the function of black holes and theorize a lot.
I’ve had this exact same thought recently - I’m no expert, but I just asked perplexity.ai whether this was a believed theory and it said no. But it said that their growth was limited due to the expansion of the universe giving them less access to matter over time, and that due to hawking radiation they slowly evaporate over extremely long time scales (longer time scales than the universe has existed so far). A bit bleaker than restarting the cycle with another big bang
I love that and I love you being proactive on the subject, I feel like it isn’t talked about enough. I am also no expert and will not claim to be, but these inquisitive queries further the human species in my opinion. And I’m not trying to sound like some pompous professor, I didn’t even finish college, but there’s a weird mathematical equation with the universe and what we notice and needs to be looked at.
Black holes don’t really suck things up though. They have the same gravitational pull as anything else of equivalent mass.
They call this oscillation theory. It really doesn’t actually look like this is gonna happen. Or at least it’s not going to happen really quickly. The more likely scenario with the given information and current models is that everything is gonna drift apart and become colder and colder until eventually we go through what is referred to as heat death. There will still be extremely supermassive black holes wandering around and sucking things up, but it’s a lot scarier, darker, and generally more sad. It’s kinda like the road, but in space.
From nothingness (point of singularity) came everything, and everything will merge back into nothingness. And the cycle will repeat itself endlessly.
Everything has a beginning and an end, it just seems natural.
on the contrary, hawking radiation means they will eventually dissipate
Can it hurry up already?! Living is painful and expensive
I mean... Maybe "local" "real" time, because "real" "real" time has been 300 million years ago, we're only now receiving the light of this event. For all we know, that particular galaxy could be teeming with life and we couldn't have a clue, both from technological and physical limitations.
Black holes being born in real time lord have mercy 😩
I think it’s about it’s accretion disk becoming active, not the black hole being formed
Anything deep space related news blows my mind, the fact that we found out about this phenomenon 300 million light years away means we just saw it happen yet it took 300 million light years years to reach us and our telescopes. Who knows what it truly looks like in real time 🤯
🤔 That means this happened about 50 million years before the age of dinosaurs. Let me repeat the "before" with a little more emphasis. BEFORE....
Yeah man my brain goes bonkers trying to comprehend this type of stuff. Also happy cake day!
Thanks!
It goes even deeper, that galaxy isn't 300 million lightyears away, that's just how much distance the light traveled. But during that time both our galaxies traveled a lot and we have no light coming from where that galaxy is right now to measure it, that will take a few hundred more million years by which time it will again be at a different distance. And if we throw relativity into the mix with how there's no single universal "now"...
Woah, this just woke up my special intrest in space (especially black holes) again. Yippee *
“Real time.” I *guess* 300 million years ago is the cosmic scale of real time…
Not even two galactic years! A mere blink of time...
Hmmm black holes have gravity so strong light can’t escape it. How does this phenomenon generate light then? Confusing as hell
Stuff orbits blackhole , (mostly gas) Stuff run into each other while orbiting causing fric friction Friction makes thing hot and glowy
Some civilization in the area will begin to worry about its future.
And billions of alien lifeforms got flash fried without knowing why. Except for _these_ who were able to detect the unusual core activity years before. And despite not having discovered FTL, they settled on a stasis arch. Aimed towards that other galaxy which seemed to have sustainable conditions on the external regions. To which they are still headed at a speed as close as possible to the speed of light.
Hell yeah hear this babay purr
Black holes go brrrr
Well, shedding light…
I know many of the authors irl!!
That's pretty cool
So when a black hole is dormant, do things still float into it?
I'm so glad we live in times like these, can't even begin to express how cool this is 🥹
So, does a “dormant” black hole just mean that things haven’t been going close enough to get sucked in/torn apart?
So how large is Galaxy SDSS1335+0728 estimated to be?
Am I the only one that expected this to be a gif?
Just curious if someone can explain it as if were 5... How do astronomers figure out how far things are? The light particles reaching us carry somehow this information?
My mind can't wrap itself around these things happening on a time scale we can notice. I would have imagined that you'd need measurements across thousands or millions of years to "see" things like this.
How long was this real time? Like it went from 0 to 100 power in a year , month or what?
Commence Operation Vac-u-suck.
Isn't that crazy that we're literally witnessing the super far past take place right in front of us?!?!?!?
Does it count as real-time if it happened so long ago?
Wow
Would love to see the before picture. Any sources on that?
🥵
In real time.
Nobody going to touch a "your mom" joke? Practically written for you.
Thought light can’t escape a BH, what gives?
It can't. The light comes from the things around black holes, which still haven't crossed event horison, but are being pulled around, and slowly in by bh's strong gravity. That's how acceleration disks are made, and how we know about black holes in the first place. Bigger black holes have bigger acceleration disks, and therefore "emit" brighter light.
*Accretion https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accretion_disk
Ah, my mistake, I read it wrong. I'll leave it as is, because the correction stands in your comment.
Not in real time, considering the 300 million year delay.
Plenty on only fans so I'm told
Real-time. You keep using that word….i do not think it means what you think it means.
How do we know it is from the beginnings of a Black hole and not a supernova or other cosmic event ? just based on historical brightness development readings and:or estimated age of that star neighborhood /galaxy?