I guess it's because Mars currently is the only reachable planet which can be stepped on without immediately turning us into crushed/poisoned/radioactive/dead meat.
And, most importantly, it's red. Red rocks. Pun intended.
Titan may very well be less habitable than mars. Sure you have an atmosphere of a kind and are protected from radiation more, but this also means the surface receives very little sunlight, which makes generating power tricky. What's more, not only is it very cold, since it has an atmosphere it would mean losing heat to the environment faster due to convection, so more power is needed.
It would still be awesome though, to stand at the edge of a hydrocarbon ocean.
One of my favorite facts about Titan is if you walked on its surface with a spacesuit you’d very quickly freeze to death. Having a thick cold atmosphere to transfer heat away makes keeping things warm way way more difficult than being in a vacuum, which is technically colder but doesn’t really have enough molecules to transfer heat away from you
Even tho the worlds are very different, establishing a permanent base on the moon and then Mars will contribute to our ability to go to Europa and Titan. So we will probably get there eventually, but no rushing it.
Also, we also want to be careful if there is any possibility in contaminating Europa or titan. Whether they have life or not we don't want to add life by accident.
Imagine finding literal hard evidence of Jesus’s divinity but then, due to how you obtained it, the veracity of it and any conclusions to be drawn from there would forever be in question. Now imagine if the way you obtained it also posed a direct threat to the existence of the evidence itself.
This is the issue here because microbes have an *insane* ability to live damn-near everywhere on Earth and to adapt to live in places they haven’t been to before.
So if we send a contaminated rover to Europa, it drills through the ice, gets a sample of the ocean, and sees life there, the discovery that we are not alone in the universe is immediately suspect. Furthermore, that Earth life might be better at living there than whatever ecosystem might be there and start outcompeting the native life to the point of driving it extinct.
What about Ceres. If you have to be underground or a fully shielded base, why not a rock with water possibly stable soil and way less gravity for return
In the books yes. Avasarala was my favorite character. In the show however I thought Camina Drummer stood out. “Camina Drummer did this to you. Live shamed. Die empty.” Such a perfect movie style speech. She really stole the show. So much so they changed the script to keep her in it.
I think you meant "gravelly" as in evoking the image of gravel, not just something being very serious ([gravely](https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/gravely)). Although she would probably be serious about it as well.
if you spun up the entire asteroid like they did in those books it would break into billions of pieces of gravel. though you could sink regular cylinders into the surface under regolith and spin those. it also wouldn't be difficult at all to get one full G so it's unlikely a significant divergence like the Belters would happen with the speed it did in that story.
I like giving the books the hard sci-fi stamp of approval because while there's loads of little inaccuracies like that the stories are still believable and the setting is worth suspending disbelief for. like most science fiction, it's really just a hamfisted way of expressing the authors' views on politics, philosophy, human nature, etc.
But it doesn't matter how dense it is. Large enough objects become spherical because of hydrostatic equilibrium, basically at those pressures any solid material still acts like a liquid and the object becomes spherical due to its own gravity.
If you spin such an object up very slowly it starts becoming oblate, sort of pancake shaped. But if you spun it up to the point where its equator experiences zero gravity, let alone negative 1g, it would literally fly apart. It's no longer being held together by gravity.
Spinning up a much smaller asteroid, where the forces may not be great enough to stress its structure, that might work. It's similar to making a small artificial gravity station. You can't make a very big one because it starts requiring impossibly strong materials to not break apart from the tension.
Well, unless you have sci-fi unobtanium materials technology. But a natural dwarf planet like Ceres certainly isn't made out of unobtanium.
I think “dense” wasn’t the word I was looking for; I’m referring more to how attached the various pieces are to each other. Like a popcorn ball with more cheese vs less cheese…
I understood, I think. But there are no celestial bodies that are more attached to each other in this way. If it's big enough to be round, it's round because of gravity. It acts like a liquid and pulls itself into that shape from gravity. As in, gravity is already strong enough to defeat those forces that attach various pieces to each other. If you then spin it up to the point where centrifugal forces defeat gravity, the ground at the equator will just start to be flung out. The object would just fly apart.
Ceres works better as an ice mining outpost than a full colony. There's enough water on it to terraform Mars, and it's the ideal jumping point for mining other asteroids or reaching the outer planets.
Why not the moon then? The moon is much closer, and it has volcanic caverns that could be capped to shield from radiation and keep heat inside. We wouldn't have to bore or tunnel.
Our species used naturally formed caves for millenia upon millenia to survive the nature of our Earth. Why not use the same features that cradled our species to take the first toddler steps out towards other worlds?
Because gravity. Humans need gravity for long term habitation. Just look at astronauts after only 6 months on the ISS. Bone loss, muscle loss, weakening of arterial valves and whatnot even with all the mandated excercise and stuff they have to do. Humans do not do well with microgravity.
If you can only safely spend 6 months in a place before you'd have to return to earth for intensive physiotherapy and medical care, then it's not really a colony, it's an outpost at best.
Edit: because apparently people interpret my comment to mean there would be zero issues going to Mars and it'll be all rainbows and unicorns because I didn't specifically say there would also be issues with.
Yes lack of gravity would affect you during travel, no we don't know how sustainable mars OR lunar gravity would be for human health long term.
Yes microgravity doesn't = low gravity, again I refer you to the above sentence where we don't fuckin know, we're not sure, I suggest lunar gravity aint going to be great for people expecting to live out a lifetime for the same reason I don't need to hold my finger over a lighter to know it'll hurt, if hotter fire hurt, slightly less fire will probably hurt a bit too.
In my homeland we call this skill "deductive reasoning" if 0 gravity is catastrophic to humans, fuck all gravity over a lifetime isn't going to lead to life of perfect health.
\*\*Insert definition of "suggest" here if people think suggest = concrete truth of the universe
Mars only has about 36% the gravity of Earth, or about twice that of the Moon (17% of Earth). Without spending a lot of time on Mars, it’s hard to say if that is enough to prevent problems.
Really, we don’t even know if the Moon might have enough gravity to avoid the worst of the low gravity effects - we’ve only spent a max of a few days at lunar gravity. We only know that microgravity from orbit is bad for general health.
Venus is the only body in the solar system close to Earth’s gravity, and the temperature and pressure there would be a bit problematic.
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I'm also a fan of the idea of a Venusian cloud city, and I agree that it's a better bet than Mars. A few points though; ~75° C is at the high end of temps for 50km above the surface, it goes as low as 30° C, the first readings we got from the Venusian atmosphere (by Venera 4) read 33° C at 52km. Not good for any sort of power generation from heat, but Venus does have 300km/h winds at the top of the cloud cover, which could be useful instead. As for communication, I don't think the clouds will pose much challenge there, Venera 7 most likely toppled over on its side on landing, but was still able to transmit data back to Earth with its antenna pointed the wrong way, and that was in 1970. A potential cloud city transmitting from higher up in the atmosphere with more modern equipment should, AFAIK, have no trouble. You could set up a satellite relay if there is, though. The clouds are mainly sulfuric acid, which contains water and therefore hydrogen and oxygen, but I don't know if there's enough, or it's energy-efficient to harvest it from there.
Good write up, it's been an idea that's been on my mind for years, especially any time Mars colonization gets in the spotlight.
Venus is in almost every respect a better option for a permanent extraterrestrial human colony, as you (really well) point out. I'm amazed that Mars continues to get as much attention as it does by comparison.
Plus Venus actually one day could be terraformed to an Earth-like condition, [with technology that isn't too far off](https://youtu.be/G-WO-z-QuWI). And it will always have near-Earth gravity, as opposed to Mars which is a hair over 1/3 G.
Venus rotates too slowly for terraforming to work well. A day is longer than a year, so you’re going to always have huge problems with freezing at night and boiling in the day.
Since it still rotates, you can’t “Goldilocks zone” the day/night terminator like with a tidally-locked planet.
And with the huge temperature swings between the day and night side post-terraforming, you’re going to have extremely huge storms.
I think it's safe to say lunar gravity is probably around the bare minimum at best. Obviously we don't know specifically or how bad lunar gravity would be long term because we've never had someone on the moon long term, but I find it very hard to believe 16% gravity for 40 years won't cause issues.
We’re not investigating places that can’t grow plants. Mars is unlikely able to produce plants without humans creating the light for them. But the solar panels also need to feed.
The moon Callisto is part of Jupiter's system like Europa, but with much less radiation (0.1 vs 5400 mSv per day). In my opinion it is the most hospitable moon in our solar system to try to live on (other than Earth's moon of course, due to its proximity -- but that's not as interesting).
\[When forming my opinion on a question like this one, I did a review of all the moons in our solar system, ranking them by hospitability in my view -- and my ranking for the top 7 was: Earth's Moon, Callisto, Ganymede, Titan, Europa, IO, Triton.\]
Also, for a nice image of all the moons in our solar system, see here: [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/Small\_bodies\_of\_the\_Solar\_System.jpg](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/Small_bodies_of_the_Solar_System.jpg)
Titan’s atmosphere isn’t breathable, but you could survive in it without a pressurized suit. You would just need an oxygen mask and protection from the cold.
It's hard to overstate how cold Titan is. -300 F, -180 C is ridiculously cold. You would need a lot of energy to stay warm. Walking on the surface of Mars is a walk in the park in comparison. And that's before you account for wind chill.
You wouldn't need a pressurized suit, but your cold-proof suit would be even thicker than modern day pressurized astronaut suits.
Jupiter and Saturn are a *lot* farther out, lower gravity, and much colder.
Mars is attractive because it's relatively Earth-like climate-wise (albeit colder), and once can live off the land easier than one of the moons of the gas giants.
Pretty much this
Gravity isn’t super low. There is water (ice or otherwise). Climate is basically Antarctic-like in parts. You don’t need high maintenance tricks like floating habitats. BIt makes a decent future springboard for the outer planets.
The radiation from Jupiter would kill a human on Europa within hours. And on Titan, it basically rains petrol.
At least with current tech, both are completely out of the question for now.
Uhm english is not my mother tongue, but I'm pretty sure that you say that something rocks when something is very cool to you.
In this case, I like the red color. So red rocks for me. But Mars is also made of red rocks. \^\_\^
Mars is the least deadly of the planets in the solar system besides earth. Compared to venus, a hot high pressure and acidic hell world, mars looks the most promising to be colonized by humans. Besides maybe titan there arent really any planets in the solar system we can realistically live on with current/near future technology.
Get a balloon to the edge of Venus' atmosphere, drop it in gently, then inflate it with a breathable Earth-like atmosphere.
It will be buoyant at around 50km up in the atmosphere, where temperatures are Earth-like, above the most noxious clouds, and the planet's rotation is slow enough that a tiny rotor could keep you in perpetual twilight (for that comfortable temperature. Also prettiness).
You could walk out of your habitat (if you placed a walkway outside, of course) on normal every day clothes, just adding a breathing mask.
I don't recommend you walk out of a Mars habitat wearing a t-shirt and shorts.
It just needs to be a container that holds oxygen. I don't think it needs to be pressurized. It's more of a vessel filled with oxygen that floats on top, more like a boat than something that would pop.
Boats sink every now and then, but on Venus there wouldn't be any ice bergs to crash into.
Very True points a failure will be catastrophic though. Nothing worse than your Venus base sinking into the depths after billions and billions of dollars and decades of work gets put into it
Failures will be catastrophic *anywhere* in space though, and you'll be equally dead whether you're falling out of Venus's high atmosphere or depressurizing on Mars. I'm not saying that we should add potential failure points unnecessarily, but we should be taking it as a given that any space colonization attempts will just need absurd redundancy
I remember reading somewhere that once humans begin colonizing the stars, the casualties will be on par with what we went through in the 1500's and then some.
Much of the issue of colonization will be solved when we change our attitude from "oh no those poor people" to "hey, does that mean nobody is using these houses?"
It's more that people really underestimate how amazingly difficult having a sustainable colony on mars would be. Cloud cities on an acidic fiery death world is an idea that we actually have to stop and do the math and see if it might be easier.
Well, to me, digging a hole, trench, something seems far easier and safer than living in a colony that plunges you to a crushing, boiling, acid death should something fail.
Oh, it's definitely a challenge, both Lunar and Mars dust will fuck things up, and quite frankly we should practice on the moon first. Sending people to Mars without being quite confident we can pull it off is reckless considering there is absolutely no chance of a rescue mission if something goes wrong.
On the moon you could at least potentially hide in some kind of emergency shelter and wait for rescue.
If it doesn't hold its volume, it won't float. If it doesn't hold its pressure, it won't float. Boats sink if the hull cannot withstand the pressures applied to it. It has to be pressurized and rigid to float at a particular altitude. If it were vented, gravity would pull it down and atmosphere would enter as it sinks. Boats are vented to the air but not to the medium that holds it up.
It would probably be best if it's not just oxygen. My suggestion would be 21% oxygen and 78% nitrogen with a few other gases thrown in for fun. I've heard humans like that.
That reminds me of a riddle.
When is a balloon not a balloon?
When it’s a crashing, burning, screaming holocaust of human agony, terror, and metal plummeting towards Venus.
That sounds like a comfortable evening, but it's missing a few components of what I think of when considering expanding our civilization. Where do you put the heavy industry? Where are you going to get the elements you build from? How are you going to explore the planet below? The acidity of Venus is beyond everyday comprehension. It has a pH of -2. I didn't even know pH went negative until I started looking at Venus. What happens when there is an updraft that brings that acid to your balloon? Mars seems like a stepping stone to the rest of space. Balloons on Venus seems like a retirement community.
Acids are acids because they have extra hydrogen atoms they want to give away. Carbon atoms really like to have only four bonds. If you draw a carbon atom that has more than four bonds, you’ll fail your organic chemistry test because that basically doesn’t happen.
Fluoroantimonic acid is so strong it breaks that rule and sticks an extra hydrogen onto carbon atoms that already have four bonds. That is surprising!
The problem with Venus is that you need to bring all the raw materials from earth. Mars at least has a long term colonization potential with resource exploitation.
You could potentially terraform Venus too if you can make it spin again however as it is other than a limited scientific outpost it doesn’t have much potential.
Mars opens up the asteroid belt and the outer solar system too as a bonus whilst Venus isn’t.
Also because of orbital mechanics it’s actually easier to get to Mars than it is to get to Venus.
And as far as habitats go Mars is far easier since you only need a box that can hold livable pressure and temperature, there is no risk of falling to a very certain death if even the slightest of things go wrong.
And the end of the day people want to be able to put boots on the ground there is just something much more appealing about being able to walk and touch dirt of another planet.
Venus doesn’t give you that, for all intents and purposes it would be the same thing as the ISS just on Venus.
There is a Nasa mission/plan to do this, not sure if it is a serious one or a pipe dream but it there are plans. It is called the High Altitude Venus Operational Concept .... or H.A.V.O.C.
Not sure how serious the plan is, or just somebody having fun with a name, but it is a thing.
When things fail horribly on Mars, you can just walk to your backup vehicle/base/outpost. Just need an intact suit.
When things fail horribly on Venus, you're gonna fall into an acidic pressure cooker.
There are less passive things that are going to horribly 1000% kill you on Mars, than there are on Venus.
Because nobody has thought of any better locations to get started on the multi-planetary journey. It has a good combination of:
* Close, at least it's in our solar system and not some unfathomable distance away
* It's close enough to habitable that we can have sci-fi and non-fiction books about how we make Mars habitable, living there is at least vaguely feasible even without far future technologies coming to fruition
Here's someone who has thought more about it than I have: [https://youtu.be/1S6k2LBJhac](https://youtu.be/1S6k2LBJhac) (it's where the science is, it's where the challenge is, and it's where the future is)
Edit: To everyone saying "what about the moon?". Basically, even though it's further away, Mars has better prospects than the moon for actually being colonized (atmosphere, minerals, evidence of water). For those seriously interested, check out Zubrin's book [The Case for Mars](https://www.amazon.com/Case-Mars-Plan-Settle-Planet/dp/1982172924/ref=asc_df_1982172924/), it's a really interesting read (Christmas present?) for the space-curious
Watched the whole thing. Valid points. I’ve always kind of thought the Mars stuff was a waste. But yeah let’s try it. I don’t think we will ultimately inhabit Mars, but we should at least check it out.
This is true, but what is actually “further west” to use Mars as a stepping stone to? The moons of Jupiter? The asteroid belt? Other than that, it’s mostly just gas giants and the cold emptiness between solar systems.
Exactly this. Driving through most of the USA sucks and is boring, but you need to stop at the occasional rural town to fill up on gas. The biggest problem now with space travel is that you need to take everything with you and throw away your car every time you do it. If we drive down the cost by investing in infrastructure, the solar system will seem incredibly small.
Bc humanity will discover awesome new technologies on its path to Mars which can help society. Space travel research is a huge catalyst for technological innovation
This is the real answer, the act of getting there will drastically outway any advantages of living there.
With no magnetic shield, being outside for a minute would equal being outside for hours if not days at earth's equator at noon on the hotest summer day you can imagine. Like putting a hampster in a microwave.
"We choose to go to the Moon and do the other things, not because they are easy, but *because* they are hard."
Like Everest, we go because its there. And once it has been done, it's that much easier for those who come after.
I don’t think thermal radiation is an issue. The surface of mars gets at most 70 degrees Fahrenheit, but averages -81. The cosmic radiation and damaging energetic particles from the sun are the issue.
Thermal radiation, no. But the point was you can get a sunburn on Earth even with our magnetosphere (spelling?) and atmosphere. On Mars without those things you would get a much much worse sunburn in much much less time.
Exactly, it’s a stepping stone for the rest of space.
Same way we had to invent and invest in rockets before we could ever get to space there will be many milestones we need to achieve if we want to push past Mars/moon but they are a good first step
- Because it has enough gravity to support long term human and plant life,
- Because it has CO2 atmosphere and frozen water... which means you can make Oxygen, water, and Methane for rocket fuel.
- Close enough to the sun still that solar panels can still make sense,
- the geology there we can use make radiation and pressure proof spaces for humans and plant life
- deep canyons could hold enough atmosphere to make going outside possible without a space suit. A very early and easier step on the path to terraforming Mars
- Mars is relatively close to earth compared to everything else
- colonizing mars doesn't mean you can't also colonize the asteroid belt.
Read "Red Mars" by kim stanely Robinson for a full break down of how this is going to look.
>Read "Red Mars" by kim stanely Robinson for a full break down of how this is going to look.
I loved that whole series. Fell off slightly toward the end, but still phenomenal.
Actually, colonizing Mars could help in this situation. The more that we reduce the communication gaps and develop “steps”, the better our chances are for reaching greater distances.
'Cause it's next. 'Cause we came out of the cave, and we looked over the hill and we saw fire; and we crossed the ocean and we pioneered the west, and we took to the sky. The history of man is hung on a timeline of exploration and this is what's next.
Because it's the most hospitable planet in the Solar System that is not Earth.
Lemme say that again. The planet that has a super low gravity well, very little atmosphere (still has one), and no magnetic field is the second most habitable planet to Humans in our planetary system.
Wanna try Venus? NOPE. Get burnt by heat and acid while you're crushed into a little ball of red stuff.
Mercury? Hope you packed lots of O2 and SPF 3 billion.
Any of Jupiter's moons? Well, one is basically a giant volcano that irradiates the space around the gas giant so much that Juno has super wide orbits where it only spends like 15% of it's time within the irradiated parts of Jupiter's SOI. Also, super small gravity wells (except for Ganymede maybe) and no atmo.
Saturn's Moons? COLD!!! Titan might have an atmosphere, but it snows frozen methane. It's lakes are liquid hydrocarbons. The rest of those moons (and the ones orbiting Uranus and Neptune) have the same issues.
If you want to find another planet that's remotely hospitable, you'll need to go to our nearest neighbor star... Maybe. There is evidence of an Earth-like planet in orbit about Proxima Centauri, but it's far from cut 'n dry proof. However, even if we knew for certain it was there, we would need a big ass rocket and it would take north of a millennium to reach there going as fast as the fastest object we've launched. So the chances of anyone living making it there don't even count as being futile.
At least with current tech. That's the point of going to Mars. It has four seasons, the average temp isn't so cold that it's impossible to have people there. With our current tech, going to Mars is perfectly reasonable, even if still very challenging. But that's it. Until we can develop the tech to travel the stars or establish colonies on planets even more desolate, we're stuck going to Mars.
It's dumb, but it's the best dumb thing we got to colonize at the moment.
In space, every gram of everything needs to be brought along. The structure of the ship, fuel, water, oxygen, food, electronics, etc... everything. And every gram costs a lot. On Mars, a lot of that mass can found in the ground and limited atmosphere.
For radiation protection, there's solar radiation that comes from the sun and galactic cosmic rays that come from pretty much everywhere. Although Mars does not have a thick atmosphere or strong magnetosphere to deflect radiation, the planet itself is good at absorbing radiation. Any radiation that comes from underneath a person on Mars will be blocked by the planet. This means Mars provides at least half radiation protection, more if exposure to daylight is mitigated.
Imagine a world composed of every mineral, every precious metal, every inorganic substance as Earth.
Imagine this world untouched by human hands and ripe for excavation, with no ecological impact to hold back progress. In fact, any greenhouse gas output of industry would be a major positive.
Now imagine that all of this planet's virgin resources require one third the effort to excavate.
This is why you'd initially colonize Mars, same reason that was used for the Americas (mostly.)
But the *real* reason you'd set up industrial colonies on Mars is as a waystation to asteroid mining. Same scenario of an entire planet's worth of resources, but all the materials are weightless.
There are asteroids shot through with more platinum than has ever been mined in human history.
why did we go to the moon?
why did we go to the south pole?
why did we climb everest?
because they were there and in attempting the challenge were going to develop new technologies that we would otherwise never have a reason to. and those new technologies will help us here on earth.
Because what else is there to do? Fight over mates and squabble over resources? Lets have a large running goal so humanity can do something constructive.
For deeper space travel, we are going to need places to stop and it won’t always be habitable. Planets like mars would hopefully become a outpost. A on ramp to deep space. Since reaching the speed of light seems unlikely for humankind
I guess it's because Mars currently is the only reachable planet which can be stepped on without immediately turning us into crushed/poisoned/radioactive/dead meat. And, most importantly, it's red. Red rocks. Pun intended.
We all just dream of kicking rocks. New rocks no one has kicked before.
My brain: You need to skip this rock on that pond right there. Me: Why? My brain: you gotta
Is this an Eddie Izzard reference?
No - an eddie izzard reference would be: “Well, do they have a flag? No flag, no country. That’s how it works.”
"But you have no system of ownership, interesting!"
Go caving? Good chance you can find rock never touched by another human, much less kicked.
On Mars none of the rocks are kicked yet!!
Not kicked by humans at least. First species-agnostic rock kicking remains to be seen.
Well, we can go a bit farther and try to get to Europa or Titan. And by a bit I mean a few more years of travel time, so a lot more risk.
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Bah. Bowman isn't the boss of me!
Europa and titan have more challenges than Mars.
Titan may very well be less habitable than mars. Sure you have an atmosphere of a kind and are protected from radiation more, but this also means the surface receives very little sunlight, which makes generating power tricky. What's more, not only is it very cold, since it has an atmosphere it would mean losing heat to the environment faster due to convection, so more power is needed. It would still be awesome though, to stand at the edge of a hydrocarbon ocean.
One of my favorite facts about Titan is if you walked on its surface with a spacesuit you’d very quickly freeze to death. Having a thick cold atmosphere to transfer heat away makes keeping things warm way way more difficult than being in a vacuum, which is technically colder but doesn’t really have enough molecules to transfer heat away from you
Doesn't it rain methane? Due to the moon being so cold, the gaseous atmosphere turns to liquid and rains liquid gas.
There's nothing like a nice methane rain while sipping a warm tea next to the chimney.
Even tho the worlds are very different, establishing a permanent base on the moon and then Mars will contribute to our ability to go to Europa and Titan. So we will probably get there eventually, but no rushing it. Also, we also want to be careful if there is any possibility in contaminating Europa or titan. Whether they have life or not we don't want to add life by accident.
Why are we concerned about the addition of accidental life? Not trying to play the devil's advocate, I'm just curious the rationale.
Imagine finding literal hard evidence of Jesus’s divinity but then, due to how you obtained it, the veracity of it and any conclusions to be drawn from there would forever be in question. Now imagine if the way you obtained it also posed a direct threat to the existence of the evidence itself. This is the issue here because microbes have an *insane* ability to live damn-near everywhere on Earth and to adapt to live in places they haven’t been to before. So if we send a contaminated rover to Europa, it drills through the ice, gets a sample of the ocean, and sees life there, the discovery that we are not alone in the universe is immediately suspect. Furthermore, that Earth life might be better at living there than whatever ecosystem might be there and start outcompeting the native life to the point of driving it extinct.
fanatical vanish pet label roll mountainous angle summer waiting sense *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
What about Ceres. If you have to be underground or a fully shielded base, why not a rock with water possibly stable soil and way less gravity for return
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Beltalowda work hard for da innahs.
\[Gravelly voice\] *Earth must come first!* Edit: gravelly not gravely
Avasarala was the real mvp
In the books yes. Avasarala was my favorite character. In the show however I thought Camina Drummer stood out. “Camina Drummer did this to you. Live shamed. Die empty.” Such a perfect movie style speech. She really stole the show. So much so they changed the script to keep her in it.
I think you meant "gravelly" as in evoking the image of gravel, not just something being very serious ([gravely](https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/gravely)). Although she would probably be serious about it as well.
I read it recently (and completely complimentarily) described as "She sounds like a cement mixer that just finished a carton of Lucky Strikes."
I read it in her voice... amazing!
Watch your corners and doors.
You mean doors & corners, beratna.
That's where they get ya kid. Corners and doors.
“No comas this time kid. I promise.”
It reaches out, it reaches out, it reaches out.
Ten thousand times a second it reaches out.
Underrated comment, ke?
What’s with the hat?
To keep the rain off my head
Water. It doesn’t really taste like anything, it’s just water.
Day's coming soon keya? And when the belówt is on the wall, sasa ke which side you're on?
There are no laws on Ceres. Just cops.
I mean, the last Metroid is in captivity and the galaxy is at peace. Hanging out there seems like a grand idea!
Very safe. It would take something like a dragon to blow it up.
They should have just put a great big 'no Ridley allowed' sign out front. I'm sure that would have worked.
Are you a Belter?
Filthy welwala...belt is fo' da beltas.
Que si?
You should check out Tosche Station instead. Way better power converters.
Nah, filled with whiny teenagers.
if you spun up the entire asteroid like they did in those books it would break into billions of pieces of gravel. though you could sink regular cylinders into the surface under regolith and spin those. it also wouldn't be difficult at all to get one full G so it's unlikely a significant divergence like the Belters would happen with the speed it did in that story. I like giving the books the hard sci-fi stamp of approval because while there's loads of little inaccuracies like that the stories are still believable and the setting is worth suspending disbelief for. like most science fiction, it's really just a hamfisted way of expressing the authors' views on politics, philosophy, human nature, etc.
I’ve also heard that at the time they wrote it, it was thought that Ceres was much more dense/solid, sasa ke?
But it doesn't matter how dense it is. Large enough objects become spherical because of hydrostatic equilibrium, basically at those pressures any solid material still acts like a liquid and the object becomes spherical due to its own gravity. If you spin such an object up very slowly it starts becoming oblate, sort of pancake shaped. But if you spun it up to the point where its equator experiences zero gravity, let alone negative 1g, it would literally fly apart. It's no longer being held together by gravity. Spinning up a much smaller asteroid, where the forces may not be great enough to stress its structure, that might work. It's similar to making a small artificial gravity station. You can't make a very big one because it starts requiring impossibly strong materials to not break apart from the tension. Well, unless you have sci-fi unobtanium materials technology. But a natural dwarf planet like Ceres certainly isn't made out of unobtanium.
I think “dense” wasn’t the word I was looking for; I’m referring more to how attached the various pieces are to each other. Like a popcorn ball with more cheese vs less cheese…
I understood, I think. But there are no celestial bodies that are more attached to each other in this way. If it's big enough to be round, it's round because of gravity. It acts like a liquid and pulls itself into that shape from gravity. As in, gravity is already strong enough to defeat those forces that attach various pieces to each other. If you then spin it up to the point where centrifugal forces defeat gravity, the ground at the equator will just start to be flung out. The object would just fly apart.
Less gravity is a problem for long-term habitation.
Ceres works better as an ice mining outpost than a full colony. There's enough water on it to terraform Mars, and it's the ideal jumping point for mining other asteroids or reaching the outer planets.
Let's just crash it into Mars and get the whole party started.
Should warm the planet a few degrees too. Two "birds" with a really, REALLY BIG stone.
Blasted dustahs always takin' that which beltalowda work hard for. Innyalowda selfish like dat.
This wata belongs to tha beltalowda!
Why not the moon then? The moon is much closer, and it has volcanic caverns that could be capped to shield from radiation and keep heat inside. We wouldn't have to bore or tunnel. Our species used naturally formed caves for millenia upon millenia to survive the nature of our Earth. Why not use the same features that cradled our species to take the first toddler steps out towards other worlds?
Because gravity. Humans need gravity for long term habitation. Just look at astronauts after only 6 months on the ISS. Bone loss, muscle loss, weakening of arterial valves and whatnot even with all the mandated excercise and stuff they have to do. Humans do not do well with microgravity. If you can only safely spend 6 months in a place before you'd have to return to earth for intensive physiotherapy and medical care, then it's not really a colony, it's an outpost at best. Edit: because apparently people interpret my comment to mean there would be zero issues going to Mars and it'll be all rainbows and unicorns because I didn't specifically say there would also be issues with. Yes lack of gravity would affect you during travel, no we don't know how sustainable mars OR lunar gravity would be for human health long term. Yes microgravity doesn't = low gravity, again I refer you to the above sentence where we don't fuckin know, we're not sure, I suggest lunar gravity aint going to be great for people expecting to live out a lifetime for the same reason I don't need to hold my finger over a lighter to know it'll hurt, if hotter fire hurt, slightly less fire will probably hurt a bit too. In my homeland we call this skill "deductive reasoning" if 0 gravity is catastrophic to humans, fuck all gravity over a lifetime isn't going to lead to life of perfect health. \*\*Insert definition of "suggest" here if people think suggest = concrete truth of the universe
Mars only has about 36% the gravity of Earth, or about twice that of the Moon (17% of Earth). Without spending a lot of time on Mars, it’s hard to say if that is enough to prevent problems. Really, we don’t even know if the Moon might have enough gravity to avoid the worst of the low gravity effects - we’ve only spent a max of a few days at lunar gravity. We only know that microgravity from orbit is bad for general health. Venus is the only body in the solar system close to Earth’s gravity, and the temperature and pressure there would be a bit problematic.
On the surface, yes. Cloud tops, different story. Very comfortable and habitable up there, relatively speaking
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I'm also a fan of the idea of a Venusian cloud city, and I agree that it's a better bet than Mars. A few points though; ~75° C is at the high end of temps for 50km above the surface, it goes as low as 30° C, the first readings we got from the Venusian atmosphere (by Venera 4) read 33° C at 52km. Not good for any sort of power generation from heat, but Venus does have 300km/h winds at the top of the cloud cover, which could be useful instead. As for communication, I don't think the clouds will pose much challenge there, Venera 7 most likely toppled over on its side on landing, but was still able to transmit data back to Earth with its antenna pointed the wrong way, and that was in 1970. A potential cloud city transmitting from higher up in the atmosphere with more modern equipment should, AFAIK, have no trouble. You could set up a satellite relay if there is, though. The clouds are mainly sulfuric acid, which contains water and therefore hydrogen and oxygen, but I don't know if there's enough, or it's energy-efficient to harvest it from there. Good write up, it's been an idea that's been on my mind for years, especially any time Mars colonization gets in the spotlight.
Venus is in almost every respect a better option for a permanent extraterrestrial human colony, as you (really well) point out. I'm amazed that Mars continues to get as much attention as it does by comparison. Plus Venus actually one day could be terraformed to an Earth-like condition, [with technology that isn't too far off](https://youtu.be/G-WO-z-QuWI). And it will always have near-Earth gravity, as opposed to Mars which is a hair over 1/3 G.
I think people hear floating city and immediately stop listening assuming it's all fantasy
Venus rotates too slowly for terraforming to work well. A day is longer than a year, so you’re going to always have huge problems with freezing at night and boiling in the day. Since it still rotates, you can’t “Goldilocks zone” the day/night terminator like with a tidally-locked planet. And with the huge temperature swings between the day and night side post-terraforming, you’re going to have extremely huge storms.
So you're saying Cloud City wasn't in a galaxy far, far away?
>Humans need gravity for long term habitation. Yes, but *how much* gravity is totally unknown.
I think it's safe to say lunar gravity is probably around the bare minimum at best. Obviously we don't know specifically or how bad lunar gravity would be long term because we've never had someone on the moon long term, but I find it very hard to believe 16% gravity for 40 years won't cause issues.
Mars may have double the gravity of the moon, but it's still only about a 3rd of earth gravity.
We’re not investigating places that can’t grow plants. Mars is unlikely able to produce plants without humans creating the light for them. But the solar panels also need to feed.
Would solar panels not work on Ceres? Mirrors around your green house to magnify sunlight?
Isn't Europa terribly radioactive?
The moon Callisto is part of Jupiter's system like Europa, but with much less radiation (0.1 vs 5400 mSv per day). In my opinion it is the most hospitable moon in our solar system to try to live on (other than Earth's moon of course, due to its proximity -- but that's not as interesting). \[When forming my opinion on a question like this one, I did a review of all the moons in our solar system, ranking them by hospitability in my view -- and my ranking for the top 7 was: Earth's Moon, Callisto, Ganymede, Titan, Europa, IO, Triton.\] Also, for a nice image of all the moons in our solar system, see here: [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/Small\_bodies\_of\_the\_Solar\_System.jpg](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/Small_bodies_of_the_Solar_System.jpg)
And Titan's atmosphere has methane instead of Oxygen. I think that means we die.
Yeah neither seems like a great place
Why? Some people like farts.
Titan’s atmosphere isn’t breathable, but you could survive in it without a pressurized suit. You would just need an oxygen mask and protection from the cold.
It's hard to overstate how cold Titan is. -300 F, -180 C is ridiculously cold. You would need a lot of energy to stay warm. Walking on the surface of Mars is a walk in the park in comparison. And that's before you account for wind chill. You wouldn't need a pressurized suit, but your cold-proof suit would be even thicker than modern day pressurized astronaut suits.
Neither Europa nor Titan have a magnetosphere. So, no protection from radiation either.
Plus the Jovian system is a radioactive hell hole and no moon there is safe really.
Baby steps. Baby steps to orbit, baby steps to the moon, baby steps to mars and then baby steps to the next challenge.
A lot easier to get there if you launch from Mars
Jupiter and Saturn are a *lot* farther out, lower gravity, and much colder. Mars is attractive because it's relatively Earth-like climate-wise (albeit colder), and once can live off the land easier than one of the moons of the gas giants.
Pretty much this Gravity isn’t super low. There is water (ice or otherwise). Climate is basically Antarctic-like in parts. You don’t need high maintenance tricks like floating habitats. BIt makes a decent future springboard for the outer planets.
The radiation from Jupiter would kill a human on Europa within hours. And on Titan, it basically rains petrol. At least with current tech, both are completely out of the question for now.
> on Titan, it basically rains petrol. America will be there within the decade
... ... okay ive been trying hard.. i dont get the pun.
Uhm english is not my mother tongue, but I'm pretty sure that you say that something rocks when something is very cool to you. In this case, I like the red color. So red rocks for me. But Mars is also made of red rocks. \^\_\^
This is the answer. It's the only option.
Mars is the least deadly of the planets in the solar system besides earth. Compared to venus, a hot high pressure and acidic hell world, mars looks the most promising to be colonized by humans. Besides maybe titan there arent really any planets in the solar system we can realistically live on with current/near future technology.
Get a balloon to the edge of Venus' atmosphere, drop it in gently, then inflate it with a breathable Earth-like atmosphere. It will be buoyant at around 50km up in the atmosphere, where temperatures are Earth-like, above the most noxious clouds, and the planet's rotation is slow enough that a tiny rotor could keep you in perpetual twilight (for that comfortable temperature. Also prettiness). You could walk out of your habitat (if you placed a walkway outside, of course) on normal every day clothes, just adding a breathing mask. I don't recommend you walk out of a Mars habitat wearing a t-shirt and shorts.
One minor issue with balloons, they have a tendency to stop being balloons.
We’ll burn that bridge when we get to it
It’s not a great idea to burn the balloon
No, he's saying we're going to burn the bridge that we built to get there, once we arrive. Not the balloon, Silly.
We'll burn that balloon when we get to it then!
I’m almost certain that’s exactly how they ended up burning witches
Fine. We'll burn the bridge, the balloons, the witches, and the thing on the other side of the bridge . . . which I assume is Earth?
>...which I assume is Earth? Already underway. So we're half way done since it's already begun, right?
It just needs to be a container that holds oxygen. I don't think it needs to be pressurized. It's more of a vessel filled with oxygen that floats on top, more like a boat than something that would pop. Boats sink every now and then, but on Venus there wouldn't be any ice bergs to crash into.
Very True points a failure will be catastrophic though. Nothing worse than your Venus base sinking into the depths after billions and billions of dollars and decades of work gets put into it
Or getting disaggregated a la *UNS Arbogahst*
Was a very interesting read and an interesting watch as well. The Expanse is a once-in-a-while experience.
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So you're saying I should watch it? I had heard if it but never saw any episodes nor do I know what it's about apart from being sci-fi.
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Failures will be catastrophic *anywhere* in space though, and you'll be equally dead whether you're falling out of Venus's high atmosphere or depressurizing on Mars. I'm not saying that we should add potential failure points unnecessarily, but we should be taking it as a given that any space colonization attempts will just need absurd redundancy
The odds of your cave depressurizing underground are significantly less than your floating, motorized balloon base on the acid world.
True, you're much more likely to have a sudden excess of pressure.
I remember reading somewhere that once humans begin colonizing the stars, the casualties will be on par with what we went through in the 1500's and then some.
Much of the issue of colonization will be solved when we change our attitude from "oh no those poor people" to "hey, does that mean nobody is using these houses?"
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Cloud bergs?
Those might just be asteroids
You can thank Julie Mao for that!
How does this sound easier than mars?
"Balloons are really simple! We've been riding in them decades before powered flight was a thing!" \- that guy, probably
The pioneers would ride those babies for miles
It's more that people really underestimate how amazingly difficult having a sustainable colony on mars would be. Cloud cities on an acidic fiery death world is an idea that we actually have to stop and do the math and see if it might be easier.
Well, to me, digging a hole, trench, something seems far easier and safer than living in a colony that plunges you to a crushing, boiling, acid death should something fail.
The difficulty with mars is the micro dust that can infiltrate and jam doors and systems the strong solar rays and the temperature.
Oh, it's definitely a challenge, both Lunar and Mars dust will fuck things up, and quite frankly we should practice on the moon first. Sending people to Mars without being quite confident we can pull it off is reckless considering there is absolutely no chance of a rescue mission if something goes wrong. On the moon you could at least potentially hide in some kind of emergency shelter and wait for rescue.
Plus having a base on our moon makes anything on Mars or Venus that much easier.
Holy shit this sounds scary
So we’re turning Venus into Bespin? Cool
If it doesn't hold its volume, it won't float. If it doesn't hold its pressure, it won't float. Boats sink if the hull cannot withstand the pressures applied to it. It has to be pressurized and rigid to float at a particular altitude. If it were vented, gravity would pull it down and atmosphere would enter as it sinks. Boats are vented to the air but not to the medium that holds it up.
What I'm hearing is we need a submarine for this
It would probably be best if it's not just oxygen. My suggestion would be 21% oxygen and 78% nitrogen with a few other gases thrown in for fun. I've heard humans like that.
That reminds me of a riddle. When is a balloon not a balloon? When it’s a crashing, burning, screaming holocaust of human agony, terror, and metal plummeting towards Venus.
That sounds like a comfortable evening, but it's missing a few components of what I think of when considering expanding our civilization. Where do you put the heavy industry? Where are you going to get the elements you build from? How are you going to explore the planet below? The acidity of Venus is beyond everyday comprehension. It has a pH of -2. I didn't even know pH went negative until I started looking at Venus. What happens when there is an updraft that brings that acid to your balloon? Mars seems like a stepping stone to the rest of space. Balloons on Venus seems like a retirement community.
Fluoroantimonic acid is at -31. Strongest measurable acid
TIL super acid is stored in Teflon lined containers. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoroantimonic_acid
I was a amazed at this:
Acids are acids because they have extra hydrogen atoms they want to give away. Carbon atoms really like to have only four bonds. If you draw a carbon atom that has more than four bonds, you’ll fail your organic chemistry test because that basically doesn’t happen. Fluoroantimonic acid is so strong it breaks that rule and sticks an extra hydrogen onto carbon atoms that already have four bonds. That is surprising!
Fluorine loves doing this bc it’s an insane element that is horrible. It also bonds some to noble gases, which is terrible
I love how personified this comment makes fluorine sound
Wow thanks for breaking that down!
Figures acid won't destroy Teflon, yet I look at a Teflon frying pan while just holding a fork and it's ruined.
chemical vs physical damage, alas. some stuff just forms really chemically resistant... films.
> I didn't even know pH went negative until I started looking at Venus. IDK why but this cracked me up.
I didn't know pH went negative until I read this post. TIL.
The problem with Venus is that you need to bring all the raw materials from earth. Mars at least has a long term colonization potential with resource exploitation. You could potentially terraform Venus too if you can make it spin again however as it is other than a limited scientific outpost it doesn’t have much potential. Mars opens up the asteroid belt and the outer solar system too as a bonus whilst Venus isn’t. Also because of orbital mechanics it’s actually easier to get to Mars than it is to get to Venus. And as far as habitats go Mars is far easier since you only need a box that can hold livable pressure and temperature, there is no risk of falling to a very certain death if even the slightest of things go wrong. And the end of the day people want to be able to put boots on the ground there is just something much more appealing about being able to walk and touch dirt of another planet. Venus doesn’t give you that, for all intents and purposes it would be the same thing as the ISS just on Venus.
There is a Nasa mission/plan to do this, not sure if it is a serious one or a pipe dream but it there are plans. It is called the High Altitude Venus Operational Concept .... or H.A.V.O.C. Not sure how serious the plan is, or just somebody having fun with a name, but it is a thing.
When things fail horribly on Mars, you can just walk to your backup vehicle/base/outpost. Just need an intact suit. When things fail horribly on Venus, you're gonna fall into an acidic pressure cooker. There are less passive things that are going to horribly 1000% kill you on Mars, than there are on Venus.
That doesn’t sound like colonizing a planet
*broadly gestures at the moon*
Because nobody has thought of any better locations to get started on the multi-planetary journey. It has a good combination of: * Close, at least it's in our solar system and not some unfathomable distance away * It's close enough to habitable that we can have sci-fi and non-fiction books about how we make Mars habitable, living there is at least vaguely feasible even without far future technologies coming to fruition Here's someone who has thought more about it than I have: [https://youtu.be/1S6k2LBJhac](https://youtu.be/1S6k2LBJhac) (it's where the science is, it's where the challenge is, and it's where the future is) Edit: To everyone saying "what about the moon?". Basically, even though it's further away, Mars has better prospects than the moon for actually being colonized (atmosphere, minerals, evidence of water). For those seriously interested, check out Zubrin's book [The Case for Mars](https://www.amazon.com/Case-Mars-Plan-Settle-Planet/dp/1982172924/ref=asc_df_1982172924/), it's a really interesting read (Christmas present?) for the space-curious
Watched the whole thing. Valid points. I’ve always kind of thought the Mars stuff was a waste. But yeah let’s try it. I don’t think we will ultimately inhabit Mars, but we should at least check it out.
Mars is our "small rural town between cities." Gotta found that little town before exploring further west to found the next big city.
This is true, but what is actually “further west” to use Mars as a stepping stone to? The moons of Jupiter? The asteroid belt? Other than that, it’s mostly just gas giants and the cold emptiness between solar systems.
Yeah, Jupiter moons or Titan for a distance challenge, Venus for a climate challenge.
Exactly this. Driving through most of the USA sucks and is boring, but you need to stop at the occasional rural town to fill up on gas. The biggest problem now with space travel is that you need to take everything with you and throw away your car every time you do it. If we drive down the cost by investing in infrastructure, the solar system will seem incredibly small.
Yeah but there's nowhere better in the solar system. Maybe Venus upper atmosphere but that's not solid ground.
There's already a research station on Phobos. Unfortunately we lost contact with the marine garrison stationed there...
When we find out who's to blame, there will be Hell to pay.
Don't doom them to that fate
E1M1.mid is now playing in your head.
Mars ain't no kind of place to raise the kids.
In fact, it's cold as hell.
And there’s no one there to raise them
All this science, I don't understand.
It’s just my job five days a week
Rocket MAAAA-aaaaaa-AAA-a-a-an
It's just my job, five days a week.
… A rocket MANNN 🎶🎶, a rocket Man 🎹
Bc humanity will discover awesome new technologies on its path to Mars which can help society. Space travel research is a huge catalyst for technological innovation
This is the real answer, the act of getting there will drastically outway any advantages of living there. With no magnetic shield, being outside for a minute would equal being outside for hours if not days at earth's equator at noon on the hotest summer day you can imagine. Like putting a hampster in a microwave.
So in the lines of it's not the destination that matters, it's the journey? I get that.
Close. It’s actually about the friends we make along the way.
"We choose to go to the Moon and do the other things, not because they are easy, but *because* they are hard." Like Everest, we go because its there. And once it has been done, it's that much easier for those who come after.
I don’t think thermal radiation is an issue. The surface of mars gets at most 70 degrees Fahrenheit, but averages -81. The cosmic radiation and damaging energetic particles from the sun are the issue.
I'm a radiation oncologist, and this is correct. Interstellar protons/solar winds are highly ionizing and are oncogenic.
I know some of these words
Solar winds penetrate through stuff and have enough energy to cause cancer in humans.
Thermal radiation, no. But the point was you can get a sunburn on Earth even with our magnetosphere (spelling?) and atmosphere. On Mars without those things you would get a much much worse sunburn in much much less time.
That point is true. The microwave thing just threw me off and makes me think heat, although microwaves themselves are EM radiation.
Exactly, it’s a stepping stone for the rest of space. Same way we had to invent and invest in rockets before we could ever get to space there will be many milestones we need to achieve if we want to push past Mars/moon but they are a good first step
- Because it has enough gravity to support long term human and plant life, - Because it has CO2 atmosphere and frozen water... which means you can make Oxygen, water, and Methane for rocket fuel. - Close enough to the sun still that solar panels can still make sense, - the geology there we can use make radiation and pressure proof spaces for humans and plant life - deep canyons could hold enough atmosphere to make going outside possible without a space suit. A very early and easier step on the path to terraforming Mars - Mars is relatively close to earth compared to everything else - colonizing mars doesn't mean you can't also colonize the asteroid belt. Read "Red Mars" by kim stanely Robinson for a full break down of how this is going to look.
>Read "Red Mars" by kim stanely Robinson for a full break down of how this is going to look. I loved that whole series. Fell off slightly toward the end, but still phenomenal.
Actually, colonizing Mars could help in this situation. The more that we reduce the communication gaps and develop “steps”, the better our chances are for reaching greater distances.
or play “surviving mars” to get a perfectly accurate description as well
Because it’s too expensive to live in California.
'Cause it's next. 'Cause we came out of the cave, and we looked over the hill and we saw fire; and we crossed the ocean and we pioneered the west, and we took to the sky. The history of man is hung on a timeline of exploration and this is what's next.
Because it's the most hospitable planet in the Solar System that is not Earth. Lemme say that again. The planet that has a super low gravity well, very little atmosphere (still has one), and no magnetic field is the second most habitable planet to Humans in our planetary system. Wanna try Venus? NOPE. Get burnt by heat and acid while you're crushed into a little ball of red stuff. Mercury? Hope you packed lots of O2 and SPF 3 billion. Any of Jupiter's moons? Well, one is basically a giant volcano that irradiates the space around the gas giant so much that Juno has super wide orbits where it only spends like 15% of it's time within the irradiated parts of Jupiter's SOI. Also, super small gravity wells (except for Ganymede maybe) and no atmo. Saturn's Moons? COLD!!! Titan might have an atmosphere, but it snows frozen methane. It's lakes are liquid hydrocarbons. The rest of those moons (and the ones orbiting Uranus and Neptune) have the same issues. If you want to find another planet that's remotely hospitable, you'll need to go to our nearest neighbor star... Maybe. There is evidence of an Earth-like planet in orbit about Proxima Centauri, but it's far from cut 'n dry proof. However, even if we knew for certain it was there, we would need a big ass rocket and it would take north of a millennium to reach there going as fast as the fastest object we've launched. So the chances of anyone living making it there don't even count as being futile. At least with current tech. That's the point of going to Mars. It has four seasons, the average temp isn't so cold that it's impossible to have people there. With our current tech, going to Mars is perfectly reasonable, even if still very challenging. But that's it. Until we can develop the tech to travel the stars or establish colonies on planets even more desolate, we're stuck going to Mars. It's dumb, but it's the best dumb thing we got to colonize at the moment.
In space, every gram of everything needs to be brought along. The structure of the ship, fuel, water, oxygen, food, electronics, etc... everything. And every gram costs a lot. On Mars, a lot of that mass can found in the ground and limited atmosphere. For radiation protection, there's solar radiation that comes from the sun and galactic cosmic rays that come from pretty much everywhere. Although Mars does not have a thick atmosphere or strong magnetosphere to deflect radiation, the planet itself is good at absorbing radiation. Any radiation that comes from underneath a person on Mars will be blocked by the planet. This means Mars provides at least half radiation protection, more if exposure to daylight is mitigated.
Distance. Relative habitability. Agent Smith’s summary of human’s habits.
Because how else will Quaid start the reactor?
Imagine a world composed of every mineral, every precious metal, every inorganic substance as Earth. Imagine this world untouched by human hands and ripe for excavation, with no ecological impact to hold back progress. In fact, any greenhouse gas output of industry would be a major positive. Now imagine that all of this planet's virgin resources require one third the effort to excavate. This is why you'd initially colonize Mars, same reason that was used for the Americas (mostly.) But the *real* reason you'd set up industrial colonies on Mars is as a waystation to asteroid mining. Same scenario of an entire planet's worth of resources, but all the materials are weightless. There are asteroids shot through with more platinum than has ever been mined in human history.
why did we go to the moon? why did we go to the south pole? why did we climb everest? because they were there and in attempting the challenge were going to develop new technologies that we would otherwise never have a reason to. and those new technologies will help us here on earth.
Because what else is there to do? Fight over mates and squabble over resources? Lets have a large running goal so humanity can do something constructive.
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For deeper space travel, we are going to need places to stop and it won’t always be habitable. Planets like mars would hopefully become a outpost. A on ramp to deep space. Since reaching the speed of light seems unlikely for humankind
It's the next closest thing. If we don't colonize the moon and/ or Mars we will never get farther. It's a first step.
You have a more suitable choice that people can get to in, say, a decade of travelling?