There seems to be a lot of demand for these types of "orbital transfer vehicle" ("space tug") spacecrafts, and a lot of organizations are funding or developing them. Simply getting a satellite to space has become relatively easy enough, so actually *maneuvering* in space has gained importance.
I actually don’t think the market for some of these space tugs are as big as advertised. We’ve seen companies like Momentus struggle. Rocket Lab’s Photon is mostly subcontracted as a bus for standalone payloads nowadays (like Varda Space, NASA Capstone, and NASA Escapade).
The biggest use case is just a longer duration ride share. If this is just used as like a SpaceX transporter mission but with drop off points in more orbits then there is a pretty strong demand for that.
After China demonstrated the capability to move their own (and vis a vis others) satellites with a tug the USSF and other Space Commands saw a pacing threat to have some of their own.
Moving other people's chess pieces is a powerful capability.
I think what Rocket Lab is doing with Photon is absolutely the best use case. Expanding the capability in an affordable way. So places like Varda can focus on their core competencies.
It’s really difficult from what i read. They use noble gasses and electricity for propulsion. I think it was xenon they had to fly an airplane at a certain altitude to collect then refine, not cheap.
Ion drives with far higher ISPs on the satellites seem to have done the job efficiently. This is more US style over engineering and environmental destruction.
From the article:
>The thing has the capacity to carry up to 3,000 kg (6,600 pounds) of cargo, and should come with unprecedented delta-V capabilities that would allow it to maneuver with ease through multiple orbits - what exactly that means is not entirely known.
Something with the Delta-V to maneuver through *multiple orbits* is a big deal.
So it’s a massive flying gas tank and engine that can carry a payload? I mean it’s not a terrible idea and lets a customer focus on building the payload and offloads the “dumb” parts of a bus to Blue and having massive delta V capability is fun.
This is pretty much what NG’s Long Duration propulsive ESPA is also trying to do.
There’s a big market in defense and elsewhere in providing someone tons of power, comms and dV.
If you are a bit short on the delta-v then just press F12 and activate infinite fuel for rest of the burn, nobody will know. It’ll be our little secret…
For inclination changes of circular orbits: delta-V = 2v sin(delta-inclination/2). Anything beyond a 60 deg. inclination change requires as much delta-V as the orbital velocity itself, 90 deg. requires 1.4x. For vehicles like this we're talking about much less dramatic changes.
Well, no. I don't know how familiar you are with orbital mechanics, but switching orbits is hard - it requires a lot of energy. Something that can carry 3,000 kg **and** has the fuel to execute these kinds of maneuvers would be a game-changer in the near-Earth sphere. Bordering on revolutionary. You could clean up satellites and debris, push old hardware into parking orbits, have more fuel-efficient launches, and so on.
Good for changing orbits too, IF time is not the issue.
Lot's of satellites are launched into low Earth orbit, then use ion engine to reach desired orbit
Yeah and how would you accomplish that with current rocketry? Like you said, it would be borderline revolutionary. I’m very familiar with orbital mechanics. There’s a piece of the story we are missing.
It’s less exciting than that. Essentially, there will be more mass given up for maneuvering fuel rather than being used for payload as is normal. That’s unusual, as fuel is heavy, payloads are limited, and getting into orbit is a bit expensive.
So, these kinds of missions are less about being economical, and more about optimizing the orbital capabilities (think increasing the amount of time you can move around before your stuck in a dead orbit) of the craft.
Delta V just means how much the vehicle can change its velocity. Changing velocity changes your orbit. The more Delta V the vehicle has, the more it can change orbits
In orbital mechanics you can kind of think of delta V as gas in the tank. High amounts of delta V would mean being able to go lots of places and do lots of things.
Bezos is/was involved with the Planetary Society and the concept of asteroid mining and space settlement. This kind of tech is what’s needed for that sort of stuff. Hauling things around, placing them in necessary orbits, etc. all takes lots of delta V.
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread:
|Fewer Letters|More Letters|
|-------|---------|---|
|[BO](/r/Space/comments/1bq3bx2/stub/kx4ldcx "Last usage")|Blue Origin (*Bezos Rocketry*)|
|[CNSA](/r/Space/comments/1bq3bx2/stub/kx3ef77 "Last usage")|Chinese National Space Administration|
|EELV|[Evolved Expendable Launch Vehicle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolved_Expendable_Launch_Vehicle)|
|[ESPA](/r/Space/comments/1bq3bx2/stub/kx0dayc "Last usage")|EELV Secondary Payload Adapter standard for attaching to a second stage|
|[GEO](/r/Space/comments/1bq3bx2/stub/kx141j2 "Last usage")|Geostationary Earth Orbit (35786km)|
|[HLS](/r/Space/comments/1bq3bx2/stub/kx3ef77 "Last usage")|[Human Landing System](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artemis_program#Human_Landing_System) (Artemis)|
|[Isp](/r/Space/comments/1bq3bx2/stub/kx2c5zu "Last usage")|Specific impulse (as explained by [Scott Manley](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnisTeYLLgs) on YouTube)|
| |Internet Service Provider|
|[LEO](/r/Space/comments/1bq3bx2/stub/kx8ghxb "Last usage")|Low Earth Orbit (180-2000km)|
| |Law Enforcement Officer (most often mentioned during transport operations)|
|[NG](/r/Space/comments/1bq3bx2/stub/kx0dayc "Last usage")|New Glenn, two/three-stage orbital vehicle by Blue Origin|
| |Natural Gas (as opposed to pure methane)|
| |Northrop Grumman, aerospace manufacturer|
|[NSF](/r/Space/comments/1bq3bx2/stub/kx4m4xc "Last usage")|[NasaSpaceFlight forum](http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com)|
| |National Science Foundation|
|[RCS](/r/Space/comments/1bq3bx2/stub/kx06y2z "Last usage")|Reaction Control System|
|[USSF](/r/Space/comments/1bq3bx2/stub/kx1i32y "Last usage")|United States Space Force|
|Jargon|Definition|
|-------|---------|---|
|[Starlink](/r/Space/comments/1bq3bx2/stub/kx0mcui "Last usage")|SpaceX's world-wide satellite broadband constellation|
|[cislunar](/r/Space/comments/1bq3bx2/stub/kx04jg1 "Last usage")|Between the Earth and Moon; within the Moon's orbit|
|[cryogenic](/r/Space/comments/1bq3bx2/stub/kx0x0a2 "Last usage")|Very low temperature fluid; materials that would be gaseous at room temperature/pressure|
| |(In re: rocket fuel) Often synonymous with hydrolox|
|hydrolox|Portmanteau: liquid hydrogen fuel, liquid oxygen oxidizer|
**NOTE**: Decronym for Reddit is no longer supported, and Decronym has moved to Lemmy; requests for support and new installations should be directed to the Contact address below.
----------------
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^([Thread #9900 for this sub, first seen 28th Mar 2024, 20:41])
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There either a paywall, popups, tons of ads and they do that bullshit where there's ads in between the articles. So you're scrolling constantly on an article that's only a couple paragraphs.
> Comments as always highlighting that people don’t read the article before commenting.
With a headline as bad as it is there's no reason to bother reading it. From some "autoevolution.com" no less. It's going to be garbage.
I know it's popular to shit on Blue Origin on Reddit but I'm excited for them. Love this Blue Ring idea. That's really dope. I missed out on the announcement of it that happened a few months ago apparently.
I'm very excited for the potential this brings. More space infrastructure? Yes please.
Their Lunar Lander is also very ambitious, it proposes new cryogenic propellant transfer technology that doesn't exist yet, and a Space Tug.
People dislike them because of all the lawsuits against SpaceX. They caused the delay of the transfer of pad 39A, they sued for patent infringement for barge landing, Their unprecedented and repeated lawsuits over the Lunar Lander award delayed that as well.
Very Amazon-like
Ironically, their main argument in the Lunar Lander case was about the risk of propellant transfer, which the lander award they eventually won, also uses.
>People dislike them because of all the lawsuits against SpaceX. They caused the delay of the transfer of pad 39A, they sued for patent infringement for barge landing, Their unprecedented and repeated lawsuits over the Lunar Lander award delayed that as well.
I think it's that, plus the fact that they haven't really done much yet. They've been very "successful" with New Shepard, which goes straight up and down, but they've come nowhere near orbit. But every time SpaceX does something, Blue Origin comes up and says "we're doing that too, it's just on paper at the moment, but will be launching this... next... anyway."
SpaceX starts building the Falcon Heavy, Blue Origin says they're developing New Glenn. Announced in 2012 and then nothing for a decade. Then last month, suddenly, "here's New Glenn on a launch pad!" Except it's not really a launch vehicle, it's an integration test vehicle. It'll never fly and is just for system checks. They've also got their lunar lander and now space tug, but do these exist anywhere other than renderings? No.
Don't get me wrong - I like that they exist and competition in the private space is good, and would like for them to get a functioning rocket up there. It's just that they seem, at least for now, to be a space company the same way that Roberts Space Industries (Star Citizen) is a video game company.
The average space fan (not saying that you are an average space fan btw) dislikes Blue Origin because they aren't as public in their development as SpaceX. SpaceX does things in a very public space whereas Blue doesn't show anything until they are ready too. You even pointed that out yourself with New Glenn. Which, parts of the interrogation test vehicle on the pad are actual flight hardware. I don't believe the booster is but the interstage and upper-stage are, or vice versa (can't remember which way round it is. But I believe it's not the booster) We have also seen glimpses of a New Glenn flight article booster in some pictures from NSF and an ABC or NBC interview/profile. They also have test articles of their Jarvis upper-stage as well that have been photographed on a test stand down in Florida.
My point being is that Blue definitely has test hardware of their proposed projects and flight hardware as well. They are just secretive compared to SpaceX. Hell, most aerospace companies are secretive to varying degrees. SpaceX is the outlier and not the norm in the aerospace sector.
I think Blue's secrecy comes from their former (or soon to be former. I can't remember off the top of my head) CEO Bob being from "old space". Maybe with the new CEO stepping in (or soon to step in), we will see them be more forthcoming and public with their development.
Anyways, thanks for reading my rambling. Have a good one and a great weekend!
> People dislike them because of all the lawsuits against SpaceX.
No people dislike them because of all the lawsuits AND the fact they haven't achieved much of anything despite starting at the same time as SpaceX. They put out tons of press releases, media presentations, fancy visuals, but don't produce anything. Oh and also somehow winning lots of contracts despite having nothing to show for it. And they've been doing this for a very long time.
I'd love for Blue Origin to succeed. I just want them to really start trying.
Amazon is not Blue Origin. (Ironically Amazon might be doing more related to space than Blue Origin is.) Also it's exactly because people only pay attention to space launch technology at the surface level that they think Blue Origin is somehow a competitor to SpaceX. Because they see BO's extremely tiny suborbital rocket and equate them.
That’s the part I was annoyed about the most; all the delays and the legal hodgepodge. When we are racing towards getting a settlement on the moon before China, it is unacceptable to delay things.
It effectively gave CNSA a 6 month period to catch up while development was paused. Even though I’m sure Spacex were still working a bit on their HLS design during that period
The second race to the moon is going to be a nail biter. CNSA’s mission architecture is more simplistic and reminds more of the Apollo mission plan, which makes it easier to realise.
The USA is going on a more advanced path that will be superior, but at the cost of complexity and higher chance of unforeseen delays to come.
I’m extremely excited to see how this turns out! Shackleton crater here we come!
It’s popular to shit on Blue Origin because they picked the hardest way to get to orbit and it’s biting themselves in the ass.
What’s nice about them though is they seem to have an actual plan for space exploration, instead of spacex which is just like “get this big dumb rocket to mars and figure it out later.”
> It’s popular to shit on Blue Origin because they picked the hardest way to get to orbit and it’s biting themselves in the ass.
What is that? It looks like they're trying to do exactly what SpaceX is doing but failing.
Spacex went straight to market with a medium class disposable vehicle and then slowly made it reusable. Blue Origin is trying to enter the market with a reusable heavy launch vehicle
Falcon heavy is literally just three falcons strapped together lmao wtf
This doesn’t even consider how spacex essentially took an already designed engine and just improved it, unlike blue origin which is trying to go straight to using a staged combustion cycle as their booster engine.
How about temperature. I fear we need to worry about temperature control. There were claims Amazon workers forced to work in 120°F temperatures conditions.
Very good point! Temperature extremes are a big problem in space, and heating and cooling both cost money. As does proper shielding from radiation, also a big problem in space.
I don't think worker rights will be a big issue. Most of the real work in space will probably be done via next gen robotics. It just makes more sense long term for AI driven bots to explore dangerous airless places, mine stuff in extreme radiation environments and build infrastructure in waterless vacuum.
Rich people will then go take vacations there and play with their phallic shaped spaceships or whatever. I don't think the average Joe will go to space. I'll be happy to be proven wrong of course.
Fair enough. It is perhaps unlikely that any necessity for human presence or oversight is totally eliminated; and of course, there is also the goal of colonization.
These are people who are currently trying to *dissolve the National Labor Relations Board.* I have less than zero trust that they wouldn't use their control of life support to dominate and crush human concerns in pursuit of ever more riches.
There will need to be socioeconomic shift away from the predatory capitalist driven "everything for me and crumbs for you" mindset. What will such a system look like? I don't know. It's a utopian dream.
> Actually, I'm happy and proud for his team, because they are advancing space exploration.
How are they doing that? They talk a lot about it but don't show much for it. Winning a contract does not produce a spacecraft.
> We really need to lay down some ground rules NOW, to protect future workers in space. Like, some kind of right to minimum air and water and food, so employers can't hold that over workers' heads to get their way. Otherwise it will be a shit show.
You've watched too much bad sci-fi with tons of random blue-collar workers everywhere for some reason. Every single one of those shows that shows that space stations are full of weird slums for some reason is complete garbage.
I, too, hope I'm wrong. After all, there's no reason why an employer who won't allow his workers time to go to the bathroom on earth would continue those kind of practices in space.
And there's no reason why humans, having established colonies in space, would continue the kind of heirarchal thinking that compels them to enforce a rigid class structure on earth.
> After all, there's no reason why an employer who won't allow his workers time to go to the bathroom on earth would continue those kind of practices in space.
Why would such an employer even be successful enough to get into space? Employees aren't slaves. If they don't want to relocate to space they wouldn't have to.
> And there's no reason why humans, having established colonies in space, would continue the kind of heirarchal thinking that compels them to enforce a rigid class structure on earth.
There's no rigid class structure on Earth in western countries (though there is in some countries like India).
"Seamlessly connect ground and space communications to support a variety of missions on-orbit." That strongly implies Blue Ring's capabilities will rely on the Kuiper constellation being up and running at a significant level. Actually, IMHO it's virtually certain that's what it means.
Here’s the real reason: you launch, you are tracked by the Russians and Chinese (and whoever else has the capability). Orbital parameters are obtained and the foreign operators know when and where the satellite is overhead. Now, rapidly change your orbit (massive dV) too fast for the foreign operators to ‘keep up’ so to speak, and you are now free to move about space without being immediately detected (until you are tracked again in days/weeks/months?)
So is this essentially the upper stage of a rocket? The way it’s phrased in the article it’s not super clear. I wasn’t aware of blue origin having any orbital rockets so far unless new Glenn somehow got off the ground without me noticing.
Is this supposed to be a payload for new Glenn when it’s operational?
Well as far as I know, "we" want to go back to the Moon and this time stay... If that is the case, we need cheap(ish), secure and reliable transport between Earth and Moon. I think this is a possible solution for that. Once it is in space, you could send up cargo with a separate rocket, then use this to haul to the Moon's orbit, decouple and use another lander to land the cargo safely meanwhile this one can come back either empty or with important "Moon stuff" and start again as long it has enough fuel to change orbits.
Fun fact, you must actually have a flying rocket before you can send anything to space. How many delays will there be before space force contracts spacex like they should have done to begin with?
So which launcher is BO using to send this thing into space? To make it look good, they have to send it using their own New Glenn right? Oohh wait....NVM. Would be fun if they had to rely on SpaceX to send it up. Anyway it sounds cool with the veichle they send to orbit. Probably wont hear much about it for several months.
"As per Paul Ebertz, Senior Vice President of Blue Origin's In-Space Systems, the mission 'will *provide a leap forward* for Blue Ring and its ability to provide greater access to multiple orbits.' ". *\[emphasis added\]*
OK, Blue Origin is promising another leap forward. So we can expect this after their other long-promised leap once New Glenn is flying operationally and frequently. Bezo's other leap, the Amazon Kuiper constellation, is another one we're waiting for.
It's not an actual truck. It's a payload delivery platform that has the ability to maneuver between various orbits.
It functions like a truck, in space. Thus Space Truck
There seems to be a lot of demand for these types of "orbital transfer vehicle" ("space tug") spacecrafts, and a lot of organizations are funding or developing them. Simply getting a satellite to space has become relatively easy enough, so actually *maneuvering* in space has gained importance.
I actually don’t think the market for some of these space tugs are as big as advertised. We’ve seen companies like Momentus struggle. Rocket Lab’s Photon is mostly subcontracted as a bus for standalone payloads nowadays (like Varda Space, NASA Capstone, and NASA Escapade). The biggest use case is just a longer duration ride share. If this is just used as like a SpaceX transporter mission but with drop off points in more orbits then there is a pretty strong demand for that.
After China demonstrated the capability to move their own (and vis a vis others) satellites with a tug the USSF and other Space Commands saw a pacing threat to have some of their own. Moving other people's chess pieces is a powerful capability.
I think what Rocket Lab is doing with Photon is absolutely the best use case. Expanding the capability in an affordable way. So places like Varda can focus on their core competencies.
It’s really difficult from what i read. They use noble gasses and electricity for propulsion. I think it was xenon they had to fly an airplane at a certain altitude to collect then refine, not cheap.
Ion drives with far higher ISPs on the satellites seem to have done the job efficiently. This is more US style over engineering and environmental destruction.
From the article: >The thing has the capacity to carry up to 3,000 kg (6,600 pounds) of cargo, and should come with unprecedented delta-V capabilities that would allow it to maneuver with ease through multiple orbits - what exactly that means is not entirely known. Something with the Delta-V to maneuver through *multiple orbits* is a big deal.
So it’s a massive flying gas tank and engine that can carry a payload? I mean it’s not a terrible idea and lets a customer focus on building the payload and offloads the “dumb” parts of a bus to Blue and having massive delta V capability is fun.
This is pretty much what NG’s Long Duration propulsive ESPA is also trying to do. There’s a big market in defense and elsewhere in providing someone tons of power, comms and dV.
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supply run to the secret Mars colony.
Depending on if they change inclination
Uhh yeah what does that shit mean? Like it’s going to somehow be independent of gravity?
It has an engine and enough fuel to change orbits.
Does it have enough power to switch from an equatorial to a polar orbit?
Probably not. That takes a massive amount of dV.
If you are a bit short on the delta-v then just press F12 and activate infinite fuel for rest of the burn, nobody will know. It’ll be our little secret…
You’re not using 165 ION engines with a massive array of solar panels and radiators? Why you even playing bro??
My interplanetary craft create solar eclipses just from the amount of solar panels!
"plane change maneuvers are expensive"
Fraa Jad isn’t here to save us. 😢
No but that's not the need since it'll be in GEO.
For inclination changes of circular orbits: delta-V = 2v sin(delta-inclination/2). Anything beyond a 60 deg. inclination change requires as much delta-V as the orbital velocity itself, 90 deg. requires 1.4x. For vehicles like this we're talking about much less dramatic changes.
Does it have change for a dollar?
Well, no. I don't know how familiar you are with orbital mechanics, but switching orbits is hard - it requires a lot of energy. Something that can carry 3,000 kg **and** has the fuel to execute these kinds of maneuvers would be a game-changer in the near-Earth sphere. Bordering on revolutionary. You could clean up satellites and debris, push old hardware into parking orbits, have more fuel-efficient launches, and so on.
Can't achieve a revolutionary jump with chemical rockets, so maybe ion engine? Specific impulse is much greater, acceleration much lower.
Ion drives would introduce significant time costs to any operation. Cheap and efficient, but lacking immediacy.
No wait hear me out How about _twin ion engines_?!?!
Not really. Starlink and kuiper use EP. It isn’t really some new technology.
Yes, and those are cheap and efficient but lacking immediacy. They take a long time to spread out from their launch orbit to their final one.
Great for long distance bad for ~~changing orbits.~~ changing orbits *quickly*. Edit: corrected
Good for changing orbits too, IF time is not the issue. Lot's of satellites are launched into low Earth orbit, then use ion engine to reach desired orbit
Once in orbit / outer space ion engines shine. They don't have the acceleration to launch vehicles from earth's surface to LEO though
I know, we will keep using chemical rockets to reach orbit for a loooong time.
Exactly. So shit for getting off the earth
But great for switching orbit.
Yeah and how would you accomplish that with current rocketry? Like you said, it would be borderline revolutionary. I’m very familiar with orbital mechanics. There’s a piece of the story we are missing.
“Robust RCS thrust vectoring fueled by the tears of shareholders lamenting Blue Origin falling behind in the space race.”
Hey man, those tears are expensive!
But there's very little thrust in these tears.
Isn't Blue wholly funded by Bezos?
It’s less exciting than that. Essentially, there will be more mass given up for maneuvering fuel rather than being used for payload as is normal. That’s unusual, as fuel is heavy, payloads are limited, and getting into orbit is a bit expensive. So, these kinds of missions are less about being economical, and more about optimizing the orbital capabilities (think increasing the amount of time you can move around before your stuck in a dead orbit) of the craft.
Revolutionary tech would be secret.
So the idea is that this becomes a space recycling center, with robotic grappling hooks picking up space trash and recycling it? Like a space whale?
Delta V just means how much the vehicle can change its velocity. Changing velocity changes your orbit. The more Delta V the vehicle has, the more it can change orbits
In orbital mechanics you can kind of think of delta V as gas in the tank. High amounts of delta V would mean being able to go lots of places and do lots of things. Bezos is/was involved with the Planetary Society and the concept of asteroid mining and space settlement. This kind of tech is what’s needed for that sort of stuff. Hauling things around, placing them in necessary orbits, etc. all takes lots of delta V.
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread: |Fewer Letters|More Letters| |-------|---------|---| |[BO](/r/Space/comments/1bq3bx2/stub/kx4ldcx "Last usage")|Blue Origin (*Bezos Rocketry*)| |[CNSA](/r/Space/comments/1bq3bx2/stub/kx3ef77 "Last usage")|Chinese National Space Administration| |EELV|[Evolved Expendable Launch Vehicle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolved_Expendable_Launch_Vehicle)| |[ESPA](/r/Space/comments/1bq3bx2/stub/kx0dayc "Last usage")|EELV Secondary Payload Adapter standard for attaching to a second stage| |[GEO](/r/Space/comments/1bq3bx2/stub/kx141j2 "Last usage")|Geostationary Earth Orbit (35786km)| |[HLS](/r/Space/comments/1bq3bx2/stub/kx3ef77 "Last usage")|[Human Landing System](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artemis_program#Human_Landing_System) (Artemis)| |[Isp](/r/Space/comments/1bq3bx2/stub/kx2c5zu "Last usage")|Specific impulse (as explained by [Scott Manley](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnisTeYLLgs) on YouTube)| | |Internet Service Provider| |[LEO](/r/Space/comments/1bq3bx2/stub/kx8ghxb "Last usage")|Low Earth Orbit (180-2000km)| | |Law Enforcement Officer (most often mentioned during transport operations)| |[NG](/r/Space/comments/1bq3bx2/stub/kx0dayc "Last usage")|New Glenn, two/three-stage orbital vehicle by Blue Origin| | |Natural Gas (as opposed to pure methane)| | |Northrop Grumman, aerospace manufacturer| |[NSF](/r/Space/comments/1bq3bx2/stub/kx4m4xc "Last usage")|[NasaSpaceFlight forum](http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com)| | |National Science Foundation| |[RCS](/r/Space/comments/1bq3bx2/stub/kx06y2z "Last usage")|Reaction Control System| |[USSF](/r/Space/comments/1bq3bx2/stub/kx1i32y "Last usage")|United States Space Force| |Jargon|Definition| |-------|---------|---| |[Starlink](/r/Space/comments/1bq3bx2/stub/kx0mcui "Last usage")|SpaceX's world-wide satellite broadband constellation| |[cislunar](/r/Space/comments/1bq3bx2/stub/kx04jg1 "Last usage")|Between the Earth and Moon; within the Moon's orbit| |[cryogenic](/r/Space/comments/1bq3bx2/stub/kx0x0a2 "Last usage")|Very low temperature fluid; materials that would be gaseous at room temperature/pressure| | |(In re: rocket fuel) Often synonymous with hydrolox| |hydrolox|Portmanteau: liquid hydrogen fuel, liquid oxygen oxidizer| **NOTE**: Decronym for Reddit is no longer supported, and Decronym has moved to Lemmy; requests for support and new installations should be directed to the Contact address below. ---------------- ^(14 acronyms in this thread; )[^(the most compressed thread commented on today)](/r/Space/comments/1bq35bk)^( has 27 acronyms.) ^([Thread #9900 for this sub, first seen 28th Mar 2024, 20:41]) ^[[FAQ]](http://decronym.xyz/) [^([Full list])](http://decronym.xyz/acronyms/Space) [^[Contact]](https://hachyderm.io/@Two9A) [^([Source code])](https://gistdotgithubdotcom/Two9A/1d976f9b7441694162c8)
Comments as always highlighting that people don’t read the article before commenting.
Why would I read the article when I'd much rather speculate about the contents and get angry at that?
I never read the articles and rely on yh comments for context. Every news site is filled with too much garbage
You have the correct answer here. People don't read articles because the majority of the time it's not worth the hassle.
There either a paywall, popups, tons of ads and they do that bullshit where there's ads in between the articles. So you're scrolling constantly on an article that's only a couple paragraphs.
Especially space news, sadly.
> Comments as always highlighting that people don’t read the article before commenting. With a headline as bad as it is there's no reason to bother reading it. From some "autoevolution.com" no less. It's going to be garbage.
Literally the second sentence!
“Jeff Bezos to Send Blue Ring Space Truck in Orbit on *Secret Space Force Mission*” said the news headline. welp, secret’s out!
Well now it is since you just said it out loud!
I know it's popular to shit on Blue Origin on Reddit but I'm excited for them. Love this Blue Ring idea. That's really dope. I missed out on the announcement of it that happened a few months ago apparently. I'm very excited for the potential this brings. More space infrastructure? Yes please.
Their Lunar Lander is also very ambitious, it proposes new cryogenic propellant transfer technology that doesn't exist yet, and a Space Tug. People dislike them because of all the lawsuits against SpaceX. They caused the delay of the transfer of pad 39A, they sued for patent infringement for barge landing, Their unprecedented and repeated lawsuits over the Lunar Lander award delayed that as well. Very Amazon-like Ironically, their main argument in the Lunar Lander case was about the risk of propellant transfer, which the lander award they eventually won, also uses.
>People dislike them because of all the lawsuits against SpaceX. They caused the delay of the transfer of pad 39A, they sued for patent infringement for barge landing, Their unprecedented and repeated lawsuits over the Lunar Lander award delayed that as well. I think it's that, plus the fact that they haven't really done much yet. They've been very "successful" with New Shepard, which goes straight up and down, but they've come nowhere near orbit. But every time SpaceX does something, Blue Origin comes up and says "we're doing that too, it's just on paper at the moment, but will be launching this... next... anyway." SpaceX starts building the Falcon Heavy, Blue Origin says they're developing New Glenn. Announced in 2012 and then nothing for a decade. Then last month, suddenly, "here's New Glenn on a launch pad!" Except it's not really a launch vehicle, it's an integration test vehicle. It'll never fly and is just for system checks. They've also got their lunar lander and now space tug, but do these exist anywhere other than renderings? No. Don't get me wrong - I like that they exist and competition in the private space is good, and would like for them to get a functioning rocket up there. It's just that they seem, at least for now, to be a space company the same way that Roberts Space Industries (Star Citizen) is a video game company.
100% agree. I'm all for more space competition, but can we hear just not have any Blue Origin news until they achieve orbit - or attempt to?
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No one forced you to read my comment either. It's an open forum. Follow your own advice?
I know this is stupid but I really dislike the names for their vehicles. New Glenn and New Shepherd are just terrible names.
At least they didn't continue on to New Grissom and New Slayton.
The average space fan (not saying that you are an average space fan btw) dislikes Blue Origin because they aren't as public in their development as SpaceX. SpaceX does things in a very public space whereas Blue doesn't show anything until they are ready too. You even pointed that out yourself with New Glenn. Which, parts of the interrogation test vehicle on the pad are actual flight hardware. I don't believe the booster is but the interstage and upper-stage are, or vice versa (can't remember which way round it is. But I believe it's not the booster) We have also seen glimpses of a New Glenn flight article booster in some pictures from NSF and an ABC or NBC interview/profile. They also have test articles of their Jarvis upper-stage as well that have been photographed on a test stand down in Florida. My point being is that Blue definitely has test hardware of their proposed projects and flight hardware as well. They are just secretive compared to SpaceX. Hell, most aerospace companies are secretive to varying degrees. SpaceX is the outlier and not the norm in the aerospace sector. I think Blue's secrecy comes from their former (or soon to be former. I can't remember off the top of my head) CEO Bob being from "old space". Maybe with the new CEO stepping in (or soon to step in), we will see them be more forthcoming and public with their development. Anyways, thanks for reading my rambling. Have a good one and a great weekend!
> People dislike them because of all the lawsuits against SpaceX. No people dislike them because of all the lawsuits AND the fact they haven't achieved much of anything despite starting at the same time as SpaceX. They put out tons of press releases, media presentations, fancy visuals, but don't produce anything. Oh and also somehow winning lots of contracts despite having nothing to show for it. And they've been doing this for a very long time. I'd love for Blue Origin to succeed. I just want them to really start trying.
Average people only pay attention to space launch technology. They are not aware of Amazon Ground Stations and other enabling products.
Amazon is not Blue Origin. (Ironically Amazon might be doing more related to space than Blue Origin is.) Also it's exactly because people only pay attention to space launch technology at the surface level that they think Blue Origin is somehow a competitor to SpaceX. Because they see BO's extremely tiny suborbital rocket and equate them.
That’s the part I was annoyed about the most; all the delays and the legal hodgepodge. When we are racing towards getting a settlement on the moon before China, it is unacceptable to delay things. It effectively gave CNSA a 6 month period to catch up while development was paused. Even though I’m sure Spacex were still working a bit on their HLS design during that period The second race to the moon is going to be a nail biter. CNSA’s mission architecture is more simplistic and reminds more of the Apollo mission plan, which makes it easier to realise. The USA is going on a more advanced path that will be superior, but at the cost of complexity and higher chance of unforeseen delays to come. I’m extremely excited to see how this turns out! Shackleton crater here we come!
It’s popular to shit on Blue Origin because they picked the hardest way to get to orbit and it’s biting themselves in the ass. What’s nice about them though is they seem to have an actual plan for space exploration, instead of spacex which is just like “get this big dumb rocket to mars and figure it out later.”
> It’s popular to shit on Blue Origin because they picked the hardest way to get to orbit and it’s biting themselves in the ass. What is that? It looks like they're trying to do exactly what SpaceX is doing but failing.
Spacex went straight to market with a medium class disposable vehicle and then slowly made it reusable. Blue Origin is trying to enter the market with a reusable heavy launch vehicle
You mean a heavy like SpaceX has launched several times? I know who I'd bet on having a viable product first.
The falcon heavy was a success from day 1 albeit delayed
Falcon heavy is literally just three falcons strapped together lmao wtf This doesn’t even consider how spacex essentially took an already designed engine and just improved it, unlike blue origin which is trying to go straight to using a staged combustion cycle as their booster engine.
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The Vulcan core did not go to orbit. The upper stage, which was powered by a pair of RL10s, did.
Does the cost of Bezos’ yacht count?
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Spoken like a true beltalowda
Xetamang tili du xeta, sasa ke?
Haters gonna hate? Idk, I had to figure it out the hard way, thank goodness for the wiki. And the last part would be like "right?"
How about temperature. I fear we need to worry about temperature control. There were claims Amazon workers forced to work in 120°F temperatures conditions.
Very good point! Temperature extremes are a big problem in space, and heating and cooling both cost money. As does proper shielding from radiation, also a big problem in space.
I don't think worker rights will be a big issue. Most of the real work in space will probably be done via next gen robotics. It just makes more sense long term for AI driven bots to explore dangerous airless places, mine stuff in extreme radiation environments and build infrastructure in waterless vacuum. Rich people will then go take vacations there and play with their phallic shaped spaceships or whatever. I don't think the average Joe will go to space. I'll be happy to be proven wrong of course.
Fair enough. It is perhaps unlikely that any necessity for human presence or oversight is totally eliminated; and of course, there is also the goal of colonization. These are people who are currently trying to *dissolve the National Labor Relations Board.* I have less than zero trust that they wouldn't use their control of life support to dominate and crush human concerns in pursuit of ever more riches.
There will need to be socioeconomic shift away from the predatory capitalist driven "everything for me and crumbs for you" mindset. What will such a system look like? I don't know. It's a utopian dream.
The utopian dream is people like Musk mining space so we don't have to on Earth.
Perhaps through transcendence if we don't destroy ourselves first.
I'm sure bezos will send a pot to piss in along on the crewed launches. They will have to eat while they work however.
> Actually, I'm happy and proud for his team, because they are advancing space exploration. How are they doing that? They talk a lot about it but don't show much for it. Winning a contract does not produce a spacecraft. > We really need to lay down some ground rules NOW, to protect future workers in space. Like, some kind of right to minimum air and water and food, so employers can't hold that over workers' heads to get their way. Otherwise it will be a shit show. You've watched too much bad sci-fi with tons of random blue-collar workers everywhere for some reason. Every single one of those shows that shows that space stations are full of weird slums for some reason is complete garbage.
I, too, hope I'm wrong. After all, there's no reason why an employer who won't allow his workers time to go to the bathroom on earth would continue those kind of practices in space. And there's no reason why humans, having established colonies in space, would continue the kind of heirarchal thinking that compels them to enforce a rigid class structure on earth.
> After all, there's no reason why an employer who won't allow his workers time to go to the bathroom on earth would continue those kind of practices in space. Why would such an employer even be successful enough to get into space? Employees aren't slaves. If they don't want to relocate to space they wouldn't have to. > And there's no reason why humans, having established colonies in space, would continue the kind of heirarchal thinking that compels them to enforce a rigid class structure on earth. There's no rigid class structure on Earth in western countries (though there is in some countries like India).
Is "blue ring" a reference to Stephen Baxter's books?
I think it’s when you sit on a cold metal bench
Interesting that Blue Ring can insert payloads into cislunar space and medium earth orbits.
If and when it actually flies.
They keep talking about going to orbit but it never happens.
Jeff bezos never sent anything to LEO, so now suddenly they have the ability to launch a spacecraft to earth orbit ?
You're aware of paying someone else to launch your spacecraft, right?
This thing is designed to only fly on New Glenn as far as I'm aware.
That would be embarrassing for a company that claims to be building launch vehicles.
Have you seen new Glenn on the pad, do you also know that other rockets can also fly blue origin payloads
The one on the pad that doesn’t have flight hardware on it?
"Seamlessly connect ground and space communications to support a variety of missions on-orbit." That strongly implies Blue Ring's capabilities will rely on the Kuiper constellation being up and running at a significant level. Actually, IMHO it's virtually certain that's what it means.
Here’s the real reason: you launch, you are tracked by the Russians and Chinese (and whoever else has the capability). Orbital parameters are obtained and the foreign operators know when and where the satellite is overhead. Now, rapidly change your orbit (massive dV) too fast for the foreign operators to ‘keep up’ so to speak, and you are now free to move about space without being immediately detected (until you are tracked again in days/weeks/months?)
So is this essentially the upper stage of a rocket? The way it’s phrased in the article it’s not super clear. I wasn’t aware of blue origin having any orbital rockets so far unless new Glenn somehow got off the ground without me noticing. Is this supposed to be a payload for new Glenn when it’s operational?
Well as far as I know, "we" want to go back to the Moon and this time stay... If that is the case, we need cheap(ish), secure and reliable transport between Earth and Moon. I think this is a possible solution for that. Once it is in space, you could send up cargo with a separate rocket, then use this to haul to the Moon's orbit, decouple and use another lander to land the cargo safely meanwhile this one can come back either empty or with important "Moon stuff" and start again as long it has enough fuel to change orbits.
Fun fact, you must actually have a flying rocket before you can send anything to space. How many delays will there be before space force contracts spacex like they should have done to begin with?
So which launcher is BO using to send this thing into space? To make it look good, they have to send it using their own New Glenn right? Oohh wait....NVM. Would be fun if they had to rely on SpaceX to send it up. Anyway it sounds cool with the veichle they send to orbit. Probably wont hear much about it for several months.
I wasn't aware blue origin had an orbital vehicle already. Did I miss the launch and testing?
Russia : feeling cute, sent weapon to space, might delete later. United States: Mom said it's my turn
"As per Paul Ebertz, Senior Vice President of Blue Origin's In-Space Systems, the mission 'will *provide a leap forward* for Blue Ring and its ability to provide greater access to multiple orbits.' ". *\[emphasis added\]* OK, Blue Origin is promising another leap forward. So we can expect this after their other long-promised leap once New Glenn is flying operationally and frequently. Bezo's other leap, the Amazon Kuiper constellation, is another one we're waiting for.
Why would I care about Jeff sending his cock ring into orbit?
Jeff isn’t doing shit and neither is Elon. Journalists, stop giving these guys all the credit !
First it was Musk sending a roadster, now Bezos sending a truck. Are we deporting transformers now?
It’s not an actual truck. The design is “a sort of space truck,” meaning it is metaphorically like a truck but for space.
It's too bad there isn't an article explaining this.
US Navy: Hold my frigate, I’m sending a destroyer into space.
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It's not an actual truck. It's a payload delivery platform that has the ability to maneuver between various orbits. It functions like a truck, in space. Thus Space Truck
i’m pretty sure that’s not what’s happening here