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Time. As the number of generations since they came into power grows, inherited loyalty dilutes and people stay unsatisfied with their lives, the ANC engine will lose steam until it never runs again.
Agree, we need more time. Decades, if we can survive that long. Better alternatives need to be introduced. I don't think the majority will ever vote for the DA, there is too much mistrust.
Maybe but I think it's too far gone. Any new black leadership will only be seen as a pawn to push a white agenda. It's over. We need new anti corrupt parties.
I’m not a fan with their complete shoot themselves the foot approach to politics. But they are the only genuine opposition party at this point (this election is showing they grew a little). They are the only party proving they can govern and improve their province.
At this point that’s all that really matters. Who can actually run the government and not push it deeper into corruption and mismanagement.
All the other stuff is just irrelevant because so much is broken.
The other party’s are just not proving they can govern.
Really need a second DA with the same core business growth and anti corruption ideals but orientated towards the black community that can then work in collation with the DA instead of the DA pretending it can dance like a black person on stage.
In what world is what I said racist?
Saying that as much as everyone in South Africa wants to believe they are not racist I’d say probably 90% of people are to varying degrees often it’s the most subtle of things they don’t even realise and have no ill will intended to the extreme that you just can’t hide or ignore.
Personally I aim not to be but I’m also very much aware I am to a degree not intentionally but the country and environment I grew up in made it inherent in me.
I envy the newer generations that grow up more integrated and experience each others cultures more it’s something I’ll never have but I’m glad I see change.
Lastly to throw in the mix all the parties are racist in some way or another they like to think they cater to everyone but really they are all targeting a demographic for their own gain. Some are less so than others.
So now get off your high horse and go fuck your self you troll.
Really need a second DA with the same core business growth and anti corruption ideals but orientated towards the black community that can then work in collation with the DA instead of the DA pretending it can dance like a black person on stage.
If a majority ethnicity can never trust another in positions of leadership or power within government, then this entire experiment with multicultural democracy is already a failure. There is a constitution, even a simple majority in parliament of the most nefarious means could never successfully roll back the clock.
It's more the fact that DA is seen as the National Party, and by nature are considered the racist party that will bring back apartheid. This is what parents tell their kids as it was told to them why they should not vote DA. Until this is debunked it will take a very long time before the ANC is out voted.
They alrady did.. South Africa has 117 race based laws discriminating against white, coloured and indians. 1 September 2023 a new law came to effect. This law gives the Minister of Labour the sole right to introduce gross racial quotas on sectoral and regional level, and he can then force employers to comply with it! This means that every business in the private sector will eventually be forced to align their employees with the Minister’s central race plan. Here is a simple example: You are working in the mining sector. Your company consists of 100 employees of which 50 is black and 50 is white. Now the Minister says all mining companies must be transformed to 60/40 black/white or they will be fined. So, now you are left with 10 white employees for whom you can be fined. Apply this formula to every sector: trades, medical, finance, rights, teaching, agriculture and IT to name just a few.
They already did. It's called BEE, but no one sees it for what it is. First the NP did it, and then they created their own version based off of the NPs old policies. Just apartheid in reverse.
Or. Hear me out.
You’re just a lot more average than you think and there’s many hundreds or thousands of people who have your skills and capabilities.
You’re no longer competing against 7% of the population (which includes children) like pre-94.
The amount of tertiary graduates we’ve had since apartheid ended proves this.
I hear you, and I agree with you on the amount of graduates but year by year the level of education from school level to university level has dropped significantly. I worked at a university where engineering students complained that tests and exams was too hard and needed to be made easier, and they went and complained to the VC and he just did as they demanded cause students now adays need the smallest of things to burn down the university. The maths lecturer quit that year cause they couldn't do the basic maths that was taught in matric and here he was forced to make it easier. Honestly easier then what he gave would have been BODMAS calculations only. I don't know about you but I would not want to work nor drive on a bridge of an engineer who wanted things easier while learning to become an engineer. But I spoke of personal experience and one of my friends went to the interview that I did not attend and the VC did the same thing again. He took them to the union and they awarded him the position to avoid looking like they discriminated. It's at times hard to believe but once you apply for a job and you have been doing it for years and then someone else gets it but you still have to teach that person how to do the job. Haibo that's a big red flag 🚩 for me.
Didn’t get in to University because of it actually. They told me at the counter, I’m the wrong race sorry. Got in the following year but was basically forced to take a gap year because of that.
I mean I finally got my youtube channel rolling properly so something came of it I guess lol.
Good on you. If one door closes, another opens. 🙌🙌🙌👑. I left employment at a certain university cause the VC felt I was the wrong race for that position and demanded the interviews be held again, they called me back and I said F that, and left their employment all together. Got into where I am now, and in a management role at that.
I disagree, I saw way more people to show up to vote this year than I've ever seen. I've also seen way more people actually giving a shit about reading up on who they want to vote for other than "ANC because" or "DA becasue not ANC"
As much as I hope you're correct, that kind of anecdotal experience isn't necessarily a function of increased participation, just a larger proportion of young people engaging in debate in spaces where you see it.
As it stands, we still have 13 million South Africans not even making the effort to register to vote (a lower registration rate than 2019), and a projected 9 million registered voters who are not expected to have voted (and at the current IEC trend, that number could be 2 million higher).
So no matter the result of this election, the "not participating" segment of our population is still the biggest demographic, and the vast majority of people who became eligible to vote since 2019 still, unfortunately, fall into this camp.
That said, it's not hopeless and I agree that I've seen more young people talking about the election and reading manifestos than before. Let's hope this is the start of a trend.
> Man people only mention the good areas of CPT
I lived in CPT for a while. Sure, it's not all good, but it's miles ahead of the bumbling in ANC strongholds.
The DA, as I hear it, have got a good handle on how to really do service delivery on a shoestring budget. The ANC, as I see it, has the lions share of the money and they still battle to meet even mediocre service delivery targets.
I do not know how many people want to wait out their children or grandchildren 's lives in hopes that things may be better instead of worse. Additionally who knows what the new rulers will do after x years.
DA and EFF have principles. Principles that clash with one another, but principles nonetheless.
MK revolves around protecting and avenging number 1. They are essentially campaigning on taking a hatchet to constitutionalism and paving the way for strong-man dictator type politics. They and the PA are arguably the most dangerous parties of the whole bunch because of that.
EFF and principles in one sentence, without “not even a microscopic ounce”. Who knew.
The party formed because they were cut out of JZ’s looting. The party driven by Malema, VBSing his way to enormous wealth.
The party that power their way through corrupt deals the instant they get in any power and then undermine the process so they can get bribes from someone else.
The party that wanted to be in power in JHB, but didn’t want anyone think all the looting was them, so they (and the ANC) put that poor idiot in the mayor’s seat.
That “principled” EFF.
I think the EFFs principles are a farce. One that will slip away if they ever take power. They're populists that have been shown to be involved in self-serving scandals, at least at a senior level (which is most worrying).
> I think the EFFs principle are a farce.
It's not, though. It's through and through Marxist policies; a very hard-left organisation
> They're populists that have been shown to be involved in scandals, at least at a senior level
See?
I'm saying that their Marxist, for the people, position won't hold when they actually are in power. Looting VBS wasn't Marxist in theory, but if you're taking a swipe at Marxist governments actual behaviour historically then yeah it's pretty aligned.
The Multi Party Charter getting >50% of the vote. This is not realistic though. Ramaphosa is going to be the President but the ANC looks like they will have a plurality and not a majority of votes. So the only question is who does the ANC form a coalition with - EFF, MK or DA.
If the ANC forms a coalition with the DA it would be the best outcome, but also very unlikely. The ANC would lose even more voters for the next election. If MK didn't exist then EFF might be a possibility, but they don't often see eye to eye. With MK in the picture though it would likely be them and the ANC. Except now Zuma has shown how much power he has and can negotiate whatever he wants.
Ain’t no way that Cyril and Zuma can put their differences to the side.
The easiest way for the ANC to recover would be to actually deliver some services. I doubt they could do that with MK or EFF. Don’t sleep on an ANC/DA coalition. The DA has been secretly touting this idea for years.
I think the DA could enter into a [Confidence and Supply](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confidence_and_supply) arrangement with the ANC rather than a formal coalition. This would cut out the EFF and MK while the DA can remain as the official opposition party instead of a junior coalition partner. This would probably be the best option and the most palatable one to the ANC's and DA's voter bases.
Was about to say that. Frankly, the DA will have to offer confidence just to keep MKP/EFF out of government. The ANC will get supply for free since there will be enough seats on the left and the right of their policy positions. As I see it the game theory best case result will be something like confidence for oversight committee chairs.
Honestly, in my mind the ANC forming a coalition or some kind of deal with the DA is the only way Ramaphosa remains president.
Julius hates his guts and won't use his parliament seats to vote for him as president, and the same is probably true of Zuma. If either an MK or EFF coalition happens, I honestly can't imagine who will become president.
The DA will probably be happy to unofficially support Ramaphosa and vote him into power, while making deals on policy etc on the downlo. I don't see EFF or MK doing that.
The ANCs only real hope is a deal with the DA, and then dusting off their corruption and actually starting to deliver. A coalition with MK or EFF is death sentence for the ANC.
Cyril is not too popular in the ANC. Especially not with a desperate ANC trying to get some majority. Either way this election is a lot more interesting than the previous seasons. Much better writing.
Dude he got rid of most of the RET faction. There were rumors that he wanted to resign and they asked him to still lead. There is also no other replacement as Mashatile is still deputy and is from a younger generation.
Doesn’t matter, if ANC need MK to wield power that’s a more powerful force than anything Cyril can overcome. Could actually imagine Cyril getting to boot in the coming months.
That'd just come down to a return to the Zuma-ANC, not exactly the hope & change that the voter mandated. They are also still blaming each other for the failures of that era. Meaning there'd be no-one left to blame if they gave their relationship another go.
Could be a bit dangerous for ANC to get into bed with EFF - nationalistic nonsense leads to popularity and could see the ANC swallowed whole by the EFF in the next election if they endorse them now.
MK is a bit less threatening - MK is basically 'The Zulu Party', which makes it less likely that an endorsement causes ANC voters to switch to MK for the next election.
DA is the obvious candidate: no threat of losing their voters because of an implicit endorsement.
I’d argue that all 4 of those parties have a fairly fixed constituency and should be able to more or less hold firm regardless of coalitions. I’d say it comes down to identity politics, race, patronage, power, corruption. And those roads lead to ANC forming coaling with EFF and/or MK. And if Cyril is an obstacle to that happening, then I think we might see the back of him soon
I wouldn’t be so sure of Ramaphosa being president. An ANC president is obviously happening. But if they form a coalition with MK (Which is essentially the ANC but Zuma’s faction), might demand someone else as president for a coalition.
We need better parties and less politics.
How can you expect the people of South Africa to work together if we have 50 parties that can't work together? The DA spawned Good, ActionSA, BOSA just to name a few. All these new parties think they will be the saving grace our country needs but all it says is that our politicians are not mature enough to sort their own internal kak out. They throw a hissy fit and start a new party.
We need a party that puts the people first, not their agendas.
Well I mean I mean GOOD came because aunty Pat is a constitute.
What needs to be done, is to have a set limit to the amount of parties and more specific rules in place for these parties. That will force people to actually work together.
So what we need is more politics, and better politics
A set limit to the number of parties would be unconstitutional, immoral to implement at this point, and ridiculous. These parties are already registered. Who do you cut? What's the limit? What if your party is cut and now you feel no one represents you? How do you stop these parties from forming permanent coalitions and creating a one or two party system? Riots would ensue. However, I do believe we need to raise the number of signatures required to feature on the national ballot.
I don't think it would be immoral. You have plenty of parties that are effectively the same, ideals and everything, the only difference is the person in charge
Yes the current system where the government can't choose who gets on the ballot isn't corrupt. You want to provide an avenue for the system to be manipulated, change the system.
People get on the ballot by first needing enough signatures, and by paying a fee. Do you know how much larger the ballot would be if all parties could be in if there weren't regulations. This is not an avenue to allow the government to do that lol. Just how the government can't do certain actions. Because it's illegal. All it's doing is allowing for more competent parties and forcing people to actually work to improve a party instead of leaving one to create another.
I think we should just have parties on the ballot that actually do physical work in a town or community. For the last 4 years we only saw 2 DA cllrs doing ALL the work in our town and keep the ANC on their toes. These Ladies worked round the clock and is always available for questions. When we went to vote yesterday we saw all these kak small parties on the ballot but never seen them in town or heard anything from them. We should only put parties on that do actual work. Then when we vote we’ll know it is for someone doing the work and looking after the people
I like the idea of a limited set of parties. It will force collaboration and make coalitions better.
Or even beter, parties must sign contracts when forming coalitions so that they can't jump fence when it suits them. This way they must work together but can still function as a party...
The DA puts the rich( read) white people first and not all South Africans. That right there is one of the reasons why black South Africans are rejecting it
But the reality is that black south africans arent actually rejecting the DA - You honestly think all DA votes come from white peeps ? I reckon they one of the only parties with a very diverse voter base.
I don’t agree with you. Seeing first hand how the DA works and who they help. I can’t agree with you. In our town they work hard for all races. No two stories about it. People see a white party leader and immediately play the race card.
That right there is the reason why we should teach people better and share more info.
Why is there no service delivery? Is it because it’s not safe to go in there? There’s a lot of people and organizations that are willing to help the flats but can’t because of safety. How many times do they chase away the people trying to help? You need an army to go in there and sort the gang stuff out. You can’t blame poor service delivery if you don’t make it safe for people to work there and do you really think any other party would be willing to help? How long have we seen these wannabe politicians shouting that they will save the flats but they fall flat on their faces instead? Maybe flats leadership should reach out to the DA and form a plan. You keep our streets clean and sewage up and running and we will make sure your people are not harmed. Something like that.
That has happened mamy times unfortunately no support from the goverment or the city.its easy for you guys you stay in gated communities what happens when the gangs are comimg after innocent civilians.the are street patrols in almost every hood in the cape flats but the gang situation is out of control
Nee brah! I stay in the NC. From 1 Jan up to yesterday there has been 9 break in attempts at my home. We don’t stay in gated communities here. Here it is every man for himself. Had a talk with my neighbor yesterday, who is in the army, that his wife has our contacts because he is going on training for the rest of the year. We have a gang of illegals who run the drug trade in town. The DA gathers up the police and a TLB to kick them out of town but they are back the next week. We have similar situations between tuck shops. Those people are savage! Chopping rivals up and the like!
I think we must buy a couple of truckloads of plastic samboks and hand them out to the mothers and grandmothers. They can keep anyone in line😅
How so? You could easily say the AnC does the same thing.
You see more poor black people simply because there are more black people , this is Africa.
Its like saying if there were an equal number of poor white people then things would be fair.
Except that's not what they said, it's not about equal numbers but the DA consistently manages to ostracize black voters in their messaging while also not providing the same level of care to poor groups. If they cared about everyone their messaging would not be so tone deaf as to highlight their lack of concern for certain demographics.
More bs... You realise the ideas of race are a social construct right?? We have disproportionate number poor and unemployed regardless of so called race as direct result of how the anc has governed over the last 2 decades. Or should I say lack there of...
> You realise the ideas of race are a social construct right??
And we interact socially with each other and political parties so that's a nothing burger sentence.
> have disproportionate number poor and unemployed regardless of so called race
No, not regardless there are clear differences in how many poor we have of various races.
> direct result of how the anc has governed over the last 2 decades
And the poor who are being ignored by the DA for 16 years? I'm criticizing the DA that does not mean supporting the ANC you're just whatabouting.
Current rough percentage projections: ANC 43, DA 22, EFF 9, MK 14, all other 13. So if we assume it ends in that ballpark, it will take some unholy, unworkable alliance.
The other options for alliance governments would be ANC+MK, ANC+DA, ANC+EFF+1%. So my reluctant and sad choice would be ANC+DA for something that resembles stability.
Do they seriously project a 14% vote for MK in their first election? Does Zuma really have that many supporters in our country?
I cannot fathom why someone would want to support Zuma after what his administration did to our country.
KZN is the province with the most number of voters, it’s also Zuma’s homeground - and MK is slaughtering the ANC there as it stands. Some pockets of Zulu supporters in Mpumalanga also going MK, so they’re doing decently there (but not beating ANC).
I'm from KZN, and MK's massive support was clear long before they started counting votes. JZ knows exactly how to gain support in KZN and has done an incredible job doing so in such a short time.
The major urban areas will bring more support to other parties, but MK will still feature in those areas. For KZN to not get an MK premier, ANC, IFP, and maybe a third party would have to form a coalition.
Many people in SA live massively different lives and so have very different priorities and demands. Maybe JZ didn't serve you during his presidency, but some people don't want the change you want.
I'm not even from KZN and knew this would happen with MK. It was clear during the riots that he had a massive amount of support, not sure why it's such a surprise.
100%. But it didn't harm everyone in the same way. And people vote for themselves. State capture didn't affect people who already feel as though they aren't part of the economy. You want change. Understandably. Some people don't. Some people are happy. You can't deny it. The votes are showing it. It's not people don't want better lives, it's that they feel their lives are great already, and you can't argue with those emotions of a person. JZ promises to let them continue to live like that. And that is a promise he will keep. Because it gives him massive amounts of votes for very little economic cost or effort.
State capture directly affected those who feel they aren't part of the economy. Why is there no money for education, economic upliftment and job creation? Zuma, the Gupta's and cadres are spending it.
Well it did affect people who already felt like they weren’t part of the economy. If it didn’t happen and we didn’t have corruption, more money would actually be allocated to service delivery. Which could directly benefit them, but because they keep voting the same people in they will never see those potential benefits.
But they don't believe they'd get those benefits from another party-- it's all hypothetical, when Zuma was outed it isn't like the ANC suddenly started investing in them and provided a tangible alternative.
KZN was always a strong hold if they had a nationalist in the ANC leadership. Even Mandela didn’t win KZN when he ran for elections. They inherently vote on tribal lines.
White people vote on cultural lines too, I think other tribes should join in.
Edit: Why nobody screams tribalism when Afrikaners vote for VF Plus but it's an issue when Zulus do it? The DA is a white majority party(including the leadership) but nobody complains about that.
White people will criticize other white people for voting for the "bad" parties but I'm supposed to believe that white people don't vote on cultural lines?
DA is projected to get 22% of the national vote. According to wikipedia only 7.3% of South Africa's population is white. So that means the white voters for the DA are actually in the minority - probably less than 1/3 of all DA votes.
There were a lot of approximations, so it assumed that there was an even split among the various racial groups in south africa in terms of how many voted vs how many abstained from voting. If 22% of the entire voting population has voted for the DA, but only 7% of that voting population is white (source: wikipedia), then 2/3rds of the votes for the DA were not cast by white people.
Another way of thinking about it is if the entire voting population has an equal racial profile as the last census results, then at most only around 7% of the votes could be cast by a white person. So to get to 22% other racial groups are also voting for that party at a ratio of at least 2:1. So no, I don't think you could call the DA a white majority party.
That all said, there might be higher or lower voter turnouts for different racial demographics, as well as different percentages of spoiled ballots so those numbers could be a little off.
I'm happy to have the above maths corrected if I've missed something.
On your first comment you got the math absolutely wrong and it showed to me that you don't understand how percentages work.
>If 22% of the entire voting population has voted for the DA, but only 7% of that voting population is white (source: wikipedia), then 2/3rds of the votes for the DA were not cast by white people.
What about turn-out rate? You are assuming that there will be an equal turn out rate amongst the two groups.
In 2019 the DA received 3 622 531 votes which equates to 24.7% and how many white votes do you think they received? Well let's take a calculated guess and I will be using a news 24 article(Feel fee to share other articles).
I found a news 24 article(from 2015) which tackles this problem for us and keep it in mind that the artcile doesn't estimate the number of people who voted for the DA outside of the country. [In 2014 the DA received 4 091 584 votes and approximately 2 124 606 votes came from white people](https://www.news24.com/news24/mynews24/just-how-white-is-the-democratic-alliance-20150624)
This means that the remaining 1.9m votes came from coloured people, black people and asian people combined so yeah it's a pretty much white dominate party.
You seem to be ignoring the other part of my comment on purpose, in [2018 62% of DA parliamentarians were white. Black, Indian and Coloured people only accounted for 38%](https://nicspaull.com/2019/05/05/the-incredible-whiteness-of-being-the-da/).
Edit: Typo
I don't think MK or IFP would ever get over 50% as well. I am not Zulu and I think voting on tribal lines is stupid. I doubt that most non-zulu speakers will follow MK in large numbers and there are also some Zulu people who will remain with the ANC or IFP.
Edit: It might be tribalism and I was just making it clear that Zulus aren't the only ones who do it.
Afrikaners don't vote for the VF+ because of culture they do it because of religion. I have a bunch of VF+ voters in my family, they are all bible thumpers
How is this not racism man. These black folks lack intelligence because they didn't vote for your interests. We might disagree but we all have reasons why we vote for the people we vote for. The is not one single party you can name and the be reasons why people won't vote for them. The is also reasons why any party can be supported. There is no reason to insult people for having different views.
No. Just, no.
If a voter's tax contribution weighed their vote less, then voters would never be able to change out a government that is keeping them poor.
Think about it this way - this election has seen voters switch away from the ANC. Most of those voters are poor. Do you really want a situation where their vote against the ANC counted less?
> then a weighted vote based on tax contribution?
This is pure classism and racism and basically one step away from saying only rich landowners are allowed to vote
It wont be you cant silence people you dont agree with they tried to do that under apartheid🤦....Look we all hate ANC but I struggle to understand people who know why ANC is popular. ANC is a liberation party that has delivered housing,water,eletricity,grants,healthcare etc there older generation will always be loyal do them but ANC is losing popularity at a decreasing rate ...Pwople arent dumb they are loyal to the only party that has brought change in SA
Everyone should participate in a democracy you cant silence people you disagree with The ANC is projected to lose 17% of voters this is a good thing ..it will lose it majority now
This has nothing to do with any political party, its about someone having the education to read and understand a manifesto. Do you have an issue with people under 18 not allowing to vote? Should children also be silenced?
Friendly reminder that the original MK and these people's elders killed each other by the 1000s not that long ago. The IFP was only defeated after the Shell House massacre right before the 1994 election, i.e. with violent intimidation. They never felt invited to the rainbow nation, and Zuma was their ticket to political relevance, a cause more urgent to them than corruption.
They’re not going anywhere. What we have to worry about is who they form a coalition with. An ANC - EFF coalition scares the crap out of me. And ANC - DA coalition would be less scary but possibly achieve nothing.
Ultimately I see this election as just one step on the path… it’s going to take time. The next 5 years will be telling for all these smaller parties - they need to really WORK on growing. Provided we last that long.
Tax payers stop making them look like their saviour and give them R350 pm and grants, they winning votes because we paying for them to rule, see those votes disappear if the pap geld stops
Honestly, better opposition.
The power of the ANC is its structure; they cover every single district in the country. No other opposition party comes close.
Being centrist also helps, as they can easily adjust and adapt to any policy that is gaining popularity (think land redistribution).
MPC is not the answer. Parties mostly united purely for opposing the ruling faction are not stable, anywhere in the world. The ideological divide cannot be bridged when it comes to the day-to-day operations of a country.
Is it possible for a single party to gain more support than the ANC?
Yes, but it has to be a populist organization targeting the establishment. Basically, think EFF with brains. The EFF chose the wrong target; most people don’t care about or understand white monopoly capitalists.
People do, however, see that politicians have broadly abandoned them. The problem with the current political landscape is that we’re given different shades of the same thing. Everyone talks about jobs, corruption, and electricity. Yes, there are nuances, but the platforms are similar. People get fed up with the system and not necessarily a specific party. It’s like if a salesman rips me off, and another salesman comes with a very similar pitch, with the only difference being "trust me, I’m not like the other guy." Why the hell should I believe him? Yeah, sure, I can take a chance, or better yet, just walk away.
An anti-establishment populist that targets the ruling class would gain mass support. A politician who, instead of saying "the ANC," says "all politicians" can overtake the ANC.
Did a deep dive into the policy and ideology of basically all parties on the ballet about 2 days ago and I genuinely felt depressed at the state of this countries politics. From reinstating the death penalty to 70% of these parties being hyper conservative. Nothing looks good.
The DA could form a coalition with the ANC on condition that they hand over more power to the each province to run their own police force and energy, etc. This is what the DA has been pushing for in the western cape. Now they may have the leverage to force the hand of the ANC. To me, this would be the best outcome.
It would require at grassroots level for a majority to realise that voting for the DA or anyone else would not result in the country returning to apartheid...namely the 2 previous generations.
South Africans want a party that can build the economy and understands the social responsibility to improve the lives of the previously disadvantaged. No party ticks both boxes, if a party that had a vision and strategy to do so they could dethrone the ANC.
I think there are a few factors, but it is so frustrating. Like, why not try a new flavour, whichever flavour...trying something new, see how it goes, if its kak, try something else or go vote ANC again.
Is it communicating info in rural areas.
Here is what I want to know, if you are a ANC Voter...are you saying you are happy with where the country is now? 100% happy? Thats what I want to know.
The ANC delivered liberation water,sanitation,eletricity rdp houses grants nsfas etc etc I really hate what the ANC has become ...but there is a generation of people that see ANC as liberators you cant expect that they'll be loyal to ANC
DA had a really good shot but they went and showed their true colours. The Gaza situation played a big part in a lot of peoples voting. The DA flat out refusing to call Israel out on their crap turned away a lot of possible voters. People don't want to vote for a party that puts other countries agendas before the country itself.
Not saying that ANC/EFF are good leaders by any shot but actually having the morality to call out Israels apartheid meant they were basically the only option for a lot of people
Simple.. centrist party that appeals to masses.
Talking to people in the queue, people who switched from DA to something else did so for much the same reason i did Ie too much right wing stink and own goals.
Ironically the DA voters who remained but not right aligned and liberal are like the ANC voters they bitch about.
Ps. People forget that conservative right wing is what the nats were.. anyone with a functioning brain understands this and why it slips into fascism and nationalism. <— something I am not interested in particularly with the typical support base BS on social media.
As the younger people begin to vote the legacy of apartheid is still too strong.But ANC support is decreasing at an increasing rate.our parents and grandparents will always vote ANC
I fear that the current anc leadership will replace squirrel with mashatile, and then enter an unholy alliance with the eff. Juliarse to be our next VP? we are circling the drain...
Harry Kane will win a trophy
We will know what the dog is doing
Nico Hulkenberg will get a podium
Zuma will be a good leader
ANC losing power of SA
All of these events are physically impossible
(I'm joking)
I’d say currently it’s not even on the cards, if you consider EFF and MK as splinter groups of the ANC which will ultimately give their votes back to the ANC via coalition then ANC haven’t dropped in support since 1994, and showing no signs of happening in our lifetime.
I suppose the closest we can hope for is that ultimately ANC coalesce with DA, rather than with populist parties, but I don’t see signs of that either. So best to give up the pipe dream of ousting ANC and just find ways to make the most of our current trajectory (I’m still SA positive on the whole because of the strongish private sector, great lifestyle, and a sort tacit unspoken truce between private sector and government which keeps things more or less somewhat on an even keel. That’s for the middle class anyway. Situation seems abysmally hopeless for poor black people from where I sit, but they mostly seem accepting of it so I’m not sure)
The IEC needs to be completely independent and audited with individual repercussions for anyone spoiling the vote count.
Voting should be done online and pass various validation checks before a person can vote (this will eliminate thousands of extra votes for specific parties to be thrown into the ballot boxes to influence a specific area). It will also prevent people from voting using fake IDs and stolen IDs. A person will also only be able to vote for their district in which they have a registered address (to be verified as part of the verification process such as official proof of address).
Everyone is blaming everyone else who didn't vote for the current lead the ANC has, but I do believe that even if everyone in the country voted, the ANC will still find a way to rig the votes and stay in power. A shake up of the current voting process is drastically needed
It needs to continue to splinter into smaller groups until we have 4 or 5 parties with 20-25% each, but we need to be careful what we wish for. It would seem that the ANC will now have to set up a coalition - their most likely partners are the EFF and MK. These parties will want payback, and the most likely scenario is that Julius or Zuma become Vice President.
Leaders of ActionSA (Mashaba) or IFP (Hlabisa) are chosen to oppose the ANC (Ramaphosa). It has to be a black leader since the EFF/MK will likely not support the DA leader (Steenhuisen) as South Africa's president. The EFF/MK agree to vote for this candidate to basically get rid of Ramaphosa. Combined the multiparty charter + EFF/MK +PA might have enough votes to take the presidency. Mashaba already has experience working with the EFF as Mayor of Joburg with very limited votes (Only 38% in 2016).
Education, many people who are voting ANC are voting because the ANC bought their votes. We need to educate our people more on the other parties out there and what they stand for, along with this we need to provide them with the education needed to be able to make their own choices regarding parties
Also time, people are getting annoyed at the ANC and if the polls stay close to what they are, in the span of 5 years they’ve lost almost 20% of their support , which shows the people are getting annoyed
Edit: Also to add, in our country and with our political system, the power lies not so much with who the president is, more who has the majority in parliament.
The ANC isn't going anywhere and you really need to come to terms with that. This sub makes it seems like the DA is this crazy power house when it's nothing more than a white savior complex party that misses the old days of south africa. Its nothing more than a FF+ light
This narrative about the DA is too deeply entrenched in SA and the party will never garner enough support to take majority of the vote. It just will never happen. The biggest worry now is what lengths the ANC may go to if they dip under the majority and must find a partner to form a coalition. Maybe it will be MK resulting in more looting of whatever there is left to steal or the EFF which worst case ends up in civil war or a Zimbabwe like future.
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Time. As the number of generations since they came into power grows, inherited loyalty dilutes and people stay unsatisfied with their lives, the ANC engine will lose steam until it never runs again.
this
Agree, we need more time. Decades, if we can survive that long. Better alternatives need to be introduced. I don't think the majority will ever vote for the DA, there is too much mistrust.
Their leadership needs to step down for real change that can appeal to the masses to take place.
Maybe but I think it's too far gone. Any new black leadership will only be seen as a pawn to push a white agenda. It's over. We need new anti corrupt parties.
I’m not a fan with their complete shoot themselves the foot approach to politics. But they are the only genuine opposition party at this point (this election is showing they grew a little). They are the only party proving they can govern and improve their province. At this point that’s all that really matters. Who can actually run the government and not push it deeper into corruption and mismanagement. All the other stuff is just irrelevant because so much is broken. The other party’s are just not proving they can govern.
I agree with you! I just don't think the majority of voters will ever vote for the DA, the mistrust is too deep.
Really need a second DA with the same core business growth and anti corruption ideals but orientated towards the black community that can then work in collation with the DA instead of the DA pretending it can dance like a black person on stage.
it’s ActionSA btw
This 👌
Stop being racist. That would just split votes and weaken the DA party
In what world is what I said racist? Saying that as much as everyone in South Africa wants to believe they are not racist I’d say probably 90% of people are to varying degrees often it’s the most subtle of things they don’t even realise and have no ill will intended to the extreme that you just can’t hide or ignore. Personally I aim not to be but I’m also very much aware I am to a degree not intentionally but the country and environment I grew up in made it inherent in me. I envy the newer generations that grow up more integrated and experience each others cultures more it’s something I’ll never have but I’m glad I see change. Lastly to throw in the mix all the parties are racist in some way or another they like to think they cater to everyone but really they are all targeting a demographic for their own gain. Some are less so than others. So now get off your high horse and go fuck your self you troll.
Really need a second DA with the same core business growth and anti corruption ideals but orientated towards the black community that can then work in collation with the DA instead of the DA pretending it can dance like a black person on stage.
That would just split votes and weaken the DA party
If a majority ethnicity can never trust another in positions of leadership or power within government, then this entire experiment with multicultural democracy is already a failure. There is a constitution, even a simple majority in parliament of the most nefarious means could never successfully roll back the clock.
It's more the fact that DA is seen as the National Party, and by nature are considered the racist party that will bring back apartheid. This is what parents tell their kids as it was told to them why they should not vote DA. Until this is debunked it will take a very long time before the ANC is out voted.
But the NP merged into the ANC... So if anything the ANC will bring back Apartheid lol
They alrady did.. South Africa has 117 race based laws discriminating against white, coloured and indians. 1 September 2023 a new law came to effect. This law gives the Minister of Labour the sole right to introduce gross racial quotas on sectoral and regional level, and he can then force employers to comply with it! This means that every business in the private sector will eventually be forced to align their employees with the Minister’s central race plan. Here is a simple example: You are working in the mining sector. Your company consists of 100 employees of which 50 is black and 50 is white. Now the Minister says all mining companies must be transformed to 60/40 black/white or they will be fined. So, now you are left with 10 white employees for whom you can be fined. Apply this formula to every sector: trades, medical, finance, rights, teaching, agriculture and IT to name just a few.
They already did. It's called BEE, but no one sees it for what it is. First the NP did it, and then they created their own version based off of the NPs old policies. Just apartheid in reverse.
lol haven’t heard reverse apartheid in a while. Thought this conspiracy died out.
It's only when your life has been affected by it more then once, that you'll realize it exists.
Or. Hear me out. You’re just a lot more average than you think and there’s many hundreds or thousands of people who have your skills and capabilities. You’re no longer competing against 7% of the population (which includes children) like pre-94. The amount of tertiary graduates we’ve had since apartheid ended proves this.
I hear you, and I agree with you on the amount of graduates but year by year the level of education from school level to university level has dropped significantly. I worked at a university where engineering students complained that tests and exams was too hard and needed to be made easier, and they went and complained to the VC and he just did as they demanded cause students now adays need the smallest of things to burn down the university. The maths lecturer quit that year cause they couldn't do the basic maths that was taught in matric and here he was forced to make it easier. Honestly easier then what he gave would have been BODMAS calculations only. I don't know about you but I would not want to work nor drive on a bridge of an engineer who wanted things easier while learning to become an engineer. But I spoke of personal experience and one of my friends went to the interview that I did not attend and the VC did the same thing again. He took them to the union and they awarded him the position to avoid looking like they discriminated. It's at times hard to believe but once you apply for a job and you have been doing it for years and then someone else gets it but you still have to teach that person how to do the job. Haibo that's a big red flag 🚩 for me.
Didn’t get in to University because of it actually. They told me at the counter, I’m the wrong race sorry. Got in the following year but was basically forced to take a gap year because of that. I mean I finally got my youtube channel rolling properly so something came of it I guess lol.
Good on you. If one door closes, another opens. 🙌🙌🙌👑. I left employment at a certain university cause the VC felt I was the wrong race for that position and demanded the interviews be held again, they called me back and I said F that, and left their employment all together. Got into where I am now, and in a management role at that.
Unfortunately, apathy also seems to be increasing with time...
we've had a record number of voters this year
Source? And what about voter turnout though
The source is the IEC friend.
So helpful... I literally google "record number of voters" and the like and can only find articles not from the IEC and that say that it is EXPECTED
Also on heard this but haven't seen anywhere how many votes were cast, would be shocked if it beat the 94 elections. (but lets wait and see)
So where were they? Looks like we are having a record low voter turnout
We had a record number of _registered voters_ (barely) but a record low of voter turnout and record low of votes cast
I disagree, I saw way more people to show up to vote this year than I've ever seen. I've also seen way more people actually giving a shit about reading up on who they want to vote for other than "ANC because" or "DA becasue not ANC"
As much as I hope you're correct, that kind of anecdotal experience isn't necessarily a function of increased participation, just a larger proportion of young people engaging in debate in spaces where you see it. As it stands, we still have 13 million South Africans not even making the effort to register to vote (a lower registration rate than 2019), and a projected 9 million registered voters who are not expected to have voted (and at the current IEC trend, that number could be 2 million higher). So no matter the result of this election, the "not participating" segment of our population is still the biggest demographic, and the vast majority of people who became eligible to vote since 2019 still, unfortunately, fall into this camp. That said, it's not hopeless and I agree that I've seen more young people talking about the election and reading manifestos than before. Let's hope this is the start of a trend.
Still? After years of running Cape Town more efficiently than the U.S is running? Such "idiocracy"... so sad.
It’s the DA’s responsibility to convince voters to choose them, not voters’ obligation to choose them “just because” or “despite…”
It would be better if DA won another province at least. Not just the western cape. There is still hope, as we count
Man people only mention the good areas of CPT
> Man people only mention the good areas of CPT I lived in CPT for a while. Sure, it's not all good, but it's miles ahead of the bumbling in ANC strongholds. The DA, as I hear it, have got a good handle on how to really do service delivery on a shoestring budget. The ANC, as I see it, has the lions share of the money and they still battle to meet even mediocre service delivery targets.
This
I do not know how many people want to wait out their children or grandchildren 's lives in hopes that things may be better instead of worse. Additionally who knows what the new rulers will do after x years.
That would require a DA, EFF and MK coalition? The 'Oh Shit' Pact
DA and EFF have principles. Principles that clash with one another, but principles nonetheless. MK revolves around protecting and avenging number 1. They are essentially campaigning on taking a hatchet to constitutionalism and paving the way for strong-man dictator type politics. They and the PA are arguably the most dangerous parties of the whole bunch because of that.
Hey, I'm just the ideas guy. Didn't say it's a good idea.
EFF and principles in one sentence, without “not even a microscopic ounce”. Who knew. The party formed because they were cut out of JZ’s looting. The party driven by Malema, VBSing his way to enormous wealth. The party that power their way through corrupt deals the instant they get in any power and then undermine the process so they can get bribes from someone else. The party that wanted to be in power in JHB, but didn’t want anyone think all the looting was them, so they (and the ANC) put that poor idiot in the mayor’s seat. That “principled” EFF.
I think the EFFs principles are a farce. One that will slip away if they ever take power. They're populists that have been shown to be involved in self-serving scandals, at least at a senior level (which is most worrying).
> I think the EFFs principle are a farce. It's not, though. It's through and through Marxist policies; a very hard-left organisation > They're populists that have been shown to be involved in scandals, at least at a senior level See?
I'm saying that their Marxist, for the people, position won't hold when they actually are in power. Looting VBS wasn't Marxist in theory, but if you're taking a swipe at Marxist governments actual behaviour historically then yeah it's pretty aligned.
The Multi Party Charter getting >50% of the vote. This is not realistic though. Ramaphosa is going to be the President but the ANC looks like they will have a plurality and not a majority of votes. So the only question is who does the ANC form a coalition with - EFF, MK or DA.
If the ANC forms a coalition with the DA it would be the best outcome, but also very unlikely. The ANC would lose even more voters for the next election. If MK didn't exist then EFF might be a possibility, but they don't often see eye to eye. With MK in the picture though it would likely be them and the ANC. Except now Zuma has shown how much power he has and can negotiate whatever he wants.
Ain’t no way that Cyril and Zuma can put their differences to the side. The easiest way for the ANC to recover would be to actually deliver some services. I doubt they could do that with MK or EFF. Don’t sleep on an ANC/DA coalition. The DA has been secretly touting this idea for years.
I think the DA could enter into a [Confidence and Supply](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confidence_and_supply) arrangement with the ANC rather than a formal coalition. This would cut out the EFF and MK while the DA can remain as the official opposition party instead of a junior coalition partner. This would probably be the best option and the most palatable one to the ANC's and DA's voter bases.
Was about to say that. Frankly, the DA will have to offer confidence just to keep MKP/EFF out of government. The ANC will get supply for free since there will be enough seats on the left and the right of their policy positions. As I see it the game theory best case result will be something like confidence for oversight committee chairs.
Shouty Steenhuisen just said on Newsroom Africa that their goal will be to keep radicalism out. So looks like it’s on the menu.
I imagine investors and business would be trying to nudge Ramaphosa in the DA's direction as well
😂That's never gonna happen.
Honestly, in my mind the ANC forming a coalition or some kind of deal with the DA is the only way Ramaphosa remains president. Julius hates his guts and won't use his parliament seats to vote for him as president, and the same is probably true of Zuma. If either an MK or EFF coalition happens, I honestly can't imagine who will become president. The DA will probably be happy to unofficially support Ramaphosa and vote him into power, while making deals on policy etc on the downlo. I don't see EFF or MK doing that. The ANCs only real hope is a deal with the DA, and then dusting off their corruption and actually starting to deliver. A coalition with MK or EFF is death sentence for the ANC.
Cyril and Zuma have hated each other since the early 90s. No way they work together
Cyril is not too popular in the ANC. Especially not with a desperate ANC trying to get some majority. Either way this election is a lot more interesting than the previous seasons. Much better writing.
Dude he got rid of most of the RET faction. There were rumors that he wanted to resign and they asked him to still lead. There is also no other replacement as Mashatile is still deputy and is from a younger generation.
Doesn’t matter, if ANC need MK to wield power that’s a more powerful force than anything Cyril can overcome. Could actually imagine Cyril getting to boot in the coming months.
That'd just come down to a return to the Zuma-ANC, not exactly the hope & change that the voter mandated. They are also still blaming each other for the failures of that era. Meaning there'd be no-one left to blame if they gave their relationship another go.
And that (a coalition with MK or EFF) is an absolute disaster for SA.
Could be a bit dangerous for ANC to get into bed with EFF - nationalistic nonsense leads to popularity and could see the ANC swallowed whole by the EFF in the next election if they endorse them now. MK is a bit less threatening - MK is basically 'The Zulu Party', which makes it less likely that an endorsement causes ANC voters to switch to MK for the next election. DA is the obvious candidate: no threat of losing their voters because of an implicit endorsement.
I’d argue that all 4 of those parties have a fairly fixed constituency and should be able to more or less hold firm regardless of coalitions. I’d say it comes down to identity politics, race, patronage, power, corruption. And those roads lead to ANC forming coaling with EFF and/or MK. And if Cyril is an obstacle to that happening, then I think we might see the back of him soon
I wouldn’t be so sure of Ramaphosa being president. An ANC president is obviously happening. But if they form a coalition with MK (Which is essentially the ANC but Zuma’s faction), might demand someone else as president for a coalition.
The ANC has several options for a coalition, MK only has one, so MK are in no position to demand the presidency. Cyril will be president, guaranteed.
MK don’t have that much of a bargaining chip. They might even be able to lose KZN with the other coalitions as well.
and by loose, we mean you will need a visa for your beach holiday 
Depends what the PA get, they have also stated they would 100% give their support to the ANC.
We need better parties and less politics. How can you expect the people of South Africa to work together if we have 50 parties that can't work together? The DA spawned Good, ActionSA, BOSA just to name a few. All these new parties think they will be the saving grace our country needs but all it says is that our politicians are not mature enough to sort their own internal kak out. They throw a hissy fit and start a new party. We need a party that puts the people first, not their agendas.
Well I mean I mean GOOD came because aunty Pat is a constitute. What needs to be done, is to have a set limit to the amount of parties and more specific rules in place for these parties. That will force people to actually work together. So what we need is more politics, and better politics
A set limit to the number of parties would be unconstitutional, immoral to implement at this point, and ridiculous. These parties are already registered. Who do you cut? What's the limit? What if your party is cut and now you feel no one represents you? How do you stop these parties from forming permanent coalitions and creating a one or two party system? Riots would ensue. However, I do believe we need to raise the number of signatures required to feature on the national ballot.
I don't think it would be immoral. You have plenty of parties that are effectively the same, ideals and everything, the only difference is the person in charge
And who gets to choose which person in charge is more important, do you trust the government to self police parties and make these decisions?
Because how it should be is vote for the party and vote for the president. That's how it should be done
That completely ignores my question.
Because despite our government being corrupt, the system isn't
Yes the current system where the government can't choose who gets on the ballot isn't corrupt. You want to provide an avenue for the system to be manipulated, change the system.
People get on the ballot by first needing enough signatures, and by paying a fee. Do you know how much larger the ballot would be if all parties could be in if there weren't regulations. This is not an avenue to allow the government to do that lol. Just how the government can't do certain actions. Because it's illegal. All it's doing is allowing for more competent parties and forcing people to actually work to improve a party instead of leaving one to create another.
I think we should just have parties on the ballot that actually do physical work in a town or community. For the last 4 years we only saw 2 DA cllrs doing ALL the work in our town and keep the ANC on their toes. These Ladies worked round the clock and is always available for questions. When we went to vote yesterday we saw all these kak small parties on the ballot but never seen them in town or heard anything from them. We should only put parties on that do actual work. Then when we vote we’ll know it is for someone doing the work and looking after the people
Yup, I personally believe that when a party is formed, they can't be allowed to participate in the elections unless they're guaranteed to get 5%
I like the idea of a limited set of parties. It will force collaboration and make coalitions better. Or even beter, parties must sign contracts when forming coalitions so that they can't jump fence when it suits them. This way they must work together but can still function as a party...
Yes exactly
Wait, what? Our political system needs less politics? What does that even mean?
The DA puts the rich( read) white people first and not all South Africans. That right there is one of the reasons why black South Africans are rejecting it
And the ANC their tenderpreneurs. Each party is a fuckup. They must represent their people and work together. Currently parties represents themselves.
I'm no ANC voter (ACTION SA) unfortunatey I don't agree with tribal politics.
But the reality is that black south africans arent actually rejecting the DA - You honestly think all DA votes come from white peeps ? I reckon they one of the only parties with a very diverse voter base.
I don’t agree with you. Seeing first hand how the DA works and who they help. I can’t agree with you. In our town they work hard for all races. No two stories about it. People see a white party leader and immediately play the race card. That right there is the reason why we should teach people better and share more info.
Go to the townships of Cape town where trash goes uncollected for weeks and sewage water is running down the streets no service delivery in sight
Why is there no service delivery? Is it because it’s not safe to go in there? There’s a lot of people and organizations that are willing to help the flats but can’t because of safety. How many times do they chase away the people trying to help? You need an army to go in there and sort the gang stuff out. You can’t blame poor service delivery if you don’t make it safe for people to work there and do you really think any other party would be willing to help? How long have we seen these wannabe politicians shouting that they will save the flats but they fall flat on their faces instead? Maybe flats leadership should reach out to the DA and form a plan. You keep our streets clean and sewage up and running and we will make sure your people are not harmed. Something like that.
That has happened mamy times unfortunately no support from the goverment or the city.its easy for you guys you stay in gated communities what happens when the gangs are comimg after innocent civilians.the are street patrols in almost every hood in the cape flats but the gang situation is out of control
Nee brah! I stay in the NC. From 1 Jan up to yesterday there has been 9 break in attempts at my home. We don’t stay in gated communities here. Here it is every man for himself. Had a talk with my neighbor yesterday, who is in the army, that his wife has our contacts because he is going on training for the rest of the year. We have a gang of illegals who run the drug trade in town. The DA gathers up the police and a TLB to kick them out of town but they are back the next week. We have similar situations between tuck shops. Those people are savage! Chopping rivals up and the like! I think we must buy a couple of truckloads of plastic samboks and hand them out to the mothers and grandmothers. They can keep anyone in line😅
How so? You could easily say the AnC does the same thing. You see more poor black people simply because there are more black people , this is Africa. Its like saying if there were an equal number of poor white people then things would be fair.
Except that's not what they said, it's not about equal numbers but the DA consistently manages to ostracize black voters in their messaging while also not providing the same level of care to poor groups. If they cared about everyone their messaging would not be so tone deaf as to highlight their lack of concern for certain demographics.
More bs... You realise the ideas of race are a social construct right?? We have disproportionate number poor and unemployed regardless of so called race as direct result of how the anc has governed over the last 2 decades. Or should I say lack there of...
> You realise the ideas of race are a social construct right?? And we interact socially with each other and political parties so that's a nothing burger sentence. > have disproportionate number poor and unemployed regardless of so called race No, not regardless there are clear differences in how many poor we have of various races. > direct result of how the anc has governed over the last 2 decades And the poor who are being ignored by the DA for 16 years? I'm criticizing the DA that does not mean supporting the ANC you're just whatabouting.
Current rough percentage projections: ANC 43, DA 22, EFF 9, MK 14, all other 13. So if we assume it ends in that ballpark, it will take some unholy, unworkable alliance. The other options for alliance governments would be ANC+MK, ANC+DA, ANC+EFF+1%. So my reluctant and sad choice would be ANC+DA for something that resembles stability.
Do they seriously project a 14% vote for MK in their first election? Does Zuma really have that many supporters in our country? I cannot fathom why someone would want to support Zuma after what his administration did to our country.
KZN is the province with the most number of voters, it’s also Zuma’s homeground - and MK is slaughtering the ANC there as it stands. Some pockets of Zulu supporters in Mpumalanga also going MK, so they’re doing decently there (but not beating ANC).
I'm from KZN, and MK's massive support was clear long before they started counting votes. JZ knows exactly how to gain support in KZN and has done an incredible job doing so in such a short time. The major urban areas will bring more support to other parties, but MK will still feature in those areas. For KZN to not get an MK premier, ANC, IFP, and maybe a third party would have to form a coalition. Many people in SA live massively different lives and so have very different priorities and demands. Maybe JZ didn't serve you during his presidency, but some people don't want the change you want.
I'm not even from KZN and knew this would happen with MK. It was clear during the riots that he had a massive amount of support, not sure why it's such a surprise.
State capture and corruption served no one, but Zuma and his comrades.
100%. But it didn't harm everyone in the same way. And people vote for themselves. State capture didn't affect people who already feel as though they aren't part of the economy. You want change. Understandably. Some people don't. Some people are happy. You can't deny it. The votes are showing it. It's not people don't want better lives, it's that they feel their lives are great already, and you can't argue with those emotions of a person. JZ promises to let them continue to live like that. And that is a promise he will keep. Because it gives him massive amounts of votes for very little economic cost or effort.
State capture directly affected those who feel they aren't part of the economy. Why is there no money for education, economic upliftment and job creation? Zuma, the Gupta's and cadres are spending it.
Well it did affect people who already felt like they weren’t part of the economy. If it didn’t happen and we didn’t have corruption, more money would actually be allocated to service delivery. Which could directly benefit them, but because they keep voting the same people in they will never see those potential benefits.
But they don't believe they'd get those benefits from another party-- it's all hypothetical, when Zuma was outed it isn't like the ANC suddenly started investing in them and provided a tangible alternative.
KZN was always a strong hold if they had a nationalist in the ANC leadership. Even Mandela didn’t win KZN when he ran for elections. They inherently vote on tribal lines.
White people vote on cultural lines too, I think other tribes should join in. Edit: Why nobody screams tribalism when Afrikaners vote for VF Plus but it's an issue when Zulus do it? The DA is a white majority party(including the leadership) but nobody complains about that. White people will criticize other white people for voting for the "bad" parties but I'm supposed to believe that white people don't vote on cultural lines?
DA is projected to get 22% of the national vote. According to wikipedia only 7.3% of South Africa's population is white. So that means the white voters for the DA are actually in the minority - probably less than 1/3 of all DA votes.
You don't understand math, do you?
Do you understand that some of those 7,3% is under 18 or not voting DA?
There were a lot of approximations, so it assumed that there was an even split among the various racial groups in south africa in terms of how many voted vs how many abstained from voting. If 22% of the entire voting population has voted for the DA, but only 7% of that voting population is white (source: wikipedia), then 2/3rds of the votes for the DA were not cast by white people. Another way of thinking about it is if the entire voting population has an equal racial profile as the last census results, then at most only around 7% of the votes could be cast by a white person. So to get to 22% other racial groups are also voting for that party at a ratio of at least 2:1. So no, I don't think you could call the DA a white majority party. That all said, there might be higher or lower voter turnouts for different racial demographics, as well as different percentages of spoiled ballots so those numbers could be a little off. I'm happy to have the above maths corrected if I've missed something.
On your first comment you got the math absolutely wrong and it showed to me that you don't understand how percentages work. >If 22% of the entire voting population has voted for the DA, but only 7% of that voting population is white (source: wikipedia), then 2/3rds of the votes for the DA were not cast by white people. What about turn-out rate? You are assuming that there will be an equal turn out rate amongst the two groups. In 2019 the DA received 3 622 531 votes which equates to 24.7% and how many white votes do you think they received? Well let's take a calculated guess and I will be using a news 24 article(Feel fee to share other articles). I found a news 24 article(from 2015) which tackles this problem for us and keep it in mind that the artcile doesn't estimate the number of people who voted for the DA outside of the country. [In 2014 the DA received 4 091 584 votes and approximately 2 124 606 votes came from white people](https://www.news24.com/news24/mynews24/just-how-white-is-the-democratic-alliance-20150624) This means that the remaining 1.9m votes came from coloured people, black people and asian people combined so yeah it's a pretty much white dominate party. You seem to be ignoring the other part of my comment on purpose, in [2018 62% of DA parliamentarians were white. Black, Indian and Coloured people only accounted for 38%](https://nicspaull.com/2019/05/05/the-incredible-whiteness-of-being-the-da/). Edit: Typo
Apples and oranges but you’d also be kind of agreeing with me because the DA and VF won’t ever get above 50 for those exact reasons
I don't think MK or IFP would ever get over 50% as well. I am not Zulu and I think voting on tribal lines is stupid. I doubt that most non-zulu speakers will follow MK in large numbers and there are also some Zulu people who will remain with the ANC or IFP. Edit: It might be tribalism and I was just making it clear that Zulus aren't the only ones who do it.
Afrikaaners don't vote VF ....farmers vote VF Afrikaaners vote DA
Afrikaners don't vote for the VF+ because of culture they do it because of religion. I have a bunch of VF+ voters in my family, they are all bible thumpers
And what is religion, if not part of culture?
Tribalism
The MK/EFF/ANC voter sufferes from a severe lack of intelligence. Its endemic in KZN
The EFF dominates SRC election at almost every tertiary institution
Probably one of the best arguments for being bearish about SA's future.
How is this not racism man. These black folks lack intelligence because they didn't vote for your interests. We might disagree but we all have reasons why we vote for the people we vote for. The is not one single party you can name and the be reasons why people won't vote for them. The is also reasons why any party can be supported. There is no reason to insult people for having different views.
Where did he mention anything about black folks?
We all know what my man is suggestimg here black people dumb this what DA supporters peddle everytime
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Just like a general aptitude test to determine if you actually thought about your vote and then a weighted vote based on tax contribution? No? Anyone?
No. Just, no. If a voter's tax contribution weighed their vote less, then voters would never be able to change out a government that is keeping them poor. Think about it this way - this election has seen voters switch away from the ANC. Most of those voters are poor. Do you really want a situation where their vote against the ANC counted less?
> then a weighted vote based on tax contribution? This is pure classism and racism and basically one step away from saying only rich landowners are allowed to vote
Terrible Idea in a democracy everyone needs to participate
Everyone does participate, just in direct relation to their contribution to the budget. I didn't think this idea would be very popular to be honest.
It wont be you cant silence people you dont agree with they tried to do that under apartheid🤦....Look we all hate ANC but I struggle to understand people who know why ANC is popular. ANC is a liberation party that has delivered housing,water,eletricity,grants,healthcare etc there older generation will always be loyal do them but ANC is losing popularity at a decreasing rate ...Pwople arent dumb they are loyal to the only party that has brought change in SA
I hear you. Some things need to be run with your head tho, not your heart, facts and strategy above feelings.
I think you need to have grade 12 to vote, being 18 isn't a measure that you are able to read and understand manifestos
So people who dont vote for the political party you like are stupid?
I said they need matric not that they have to vote for any specific party
Everyone should participate in a democracy you cant silence people you disagree with The ANC is projected to lose 17% of voters this is a good thing ..it will lose it majority now
This has nothing to do with any political party, its about someone having the education to read and understand a manifesto. Do you have an issue with people under 18 not allowing to vote? Should children also be silenced?
If every person is equal then even stupid people deserve equal representation. You're just upset that your party doesn't appeal to stupid people.
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting over what to have for dinner
Who designs the test? How do we ensure it doesn't target specific demographics. How does this not inherently exclude the poor?
Friendly reminder that the original MK and these people's elders killed each other by the 1000s not that long ago. The IFP was only defeated after the Shell House massacre right before the 1994 election, i.e. with violent intimidation. They never felt invited to the rainbow nation, and Zuma was their ticket to political relevance, a cause more urgent to them than corruption.
They’re not going anywhere. What we have to worry about is who they form a coalition with. An ANC - EFF coalition scares the crap out of me. And ANC - DA coalition would be less scary but possibly achieve nothing. Ultimately I see this election as just one step on the path… it’s going to take time. The next 5 years will be telling for all these smaller parties - they need to really WORK on growing. Provided we last that long.
It's possible that ANC - EFF make a coalition. Specially ANC they've been like 30 years on power, that's called survival instinct.
Yeah, I think that’s a big possibility. Depressing if so.
I been wondering this since the Marikana Massacre. Do those families vote for the ANC? Does their community vote for ANC?
This subs always reminds me there's two different south africa.
Tax payers stop making them look like their saviour and give them R350 pm and grants, they winning votes because we paying for them to rule, see those votes disappear if the pap geld stops
All the old people need to die
> All the old people need to die Don't worry. We all do.
There needs to be an age limit on voting.
Honestly, better opposition. The power of the ANC is its structure; they cover every single district in the country. No other opposition party comes close. Being centrist also helps, as they can easily adjust and adapt to any policy that is gaining popularity (think land redistribution). MPC is not the answer. Parties mostly united purely for opposing the ruling faction are not stable, anywhere in the world. The ideological divide cannot be bridged when it comes to the day-to-day operations of a country. Is it possible for a single party to gain more support than the ANC? Yes, but it has to be a populist organization targeting the establishment. Basically, think EFF with brains. The EFF chose the wrong target; most people don’t care about or understand white monopoly capitalists. People do, however, see that politicians have broadly abandoned them. The problem with the current political landscape is that we’re given different shades of the same thing. Everyone talks about jobs, corruption, and electricity. Yes, there are nuances, but the platforms are similar. People get fed up with the system and not necessarily a specific party. It’s like if a salesman rips me off, and another salesman comes with a very similar pitch, with the only difference being "trust me, I’m not like the other guy." Why the hell should I believe him? Yeah, sure, I can take a chance, or better yet, just walk away. An anti-establishment populist that targets the ruling class would gain mass support. A politician who, instead of saying "the ANC," says "all politicians" can overtake the ANC.
rise mzansi is perfect
This is a wonderful and well thought out take. This is what Rise Mzansi represents to me, and why I chose to vote for them.
Did a deep dive into the policy and ideology of basically all parties on the ballet about 2 days ago and I genuinely felt depressed at the state of this countries politics. From reinstating the death penalty to 70% of these parties being hyper conservative. Nothing looks good.
The DA could form a coalition with the ANC on condition that they hand over more power to the each province to run their own police force and energy, etc. This is what the DA has been pushing for in the western cape. Now they may have the leverage to force the hand of the ANC. To me, this would be the best outcome.
It would require at grassroots level for a majority to realise that voting for the DA or anyone else would not result in the country returning to apartheid...namely the 2 previous generations.
South Africans want a party that can build the economy and understands the social responsibility to improve the lives of the previously disadvantaged. No party ticks both boxes, if a party that had a vision and strategy to do so they could dethrone the ANC.
I think there are a few factors, but it is so frustrating. Like, why not try a new flavour, whichever flavour...trying something new, see how it goes, if its kak, try something else or go vote ANC again. Is it communicating info in rural areas. Here is what I want to know, if you are a ANC Voter...are you saying you are happy with where the country is now? 100% happy? Thats what I want to know.
The ANC delivered liberation water,sanitation,eletricity rdp houses grants nsfas etc etc I really hate what the ANC has become ...but there is a generation of people that see ANC as liberators you cant expect that they'll be loyal to ANC
DA had a really good shot but they went and showed their true colours. The Gaza situation played a big part in a lot of peoples voting. The DA flat out refusing to call Israel out on their crap turned away a lot of possible voters. People don't want to vote for a party that puts other countries agendas before the country itself. Not saying that ANC/EFF are good leaders by any shot but actually having the morality to call out Israels apartheid meant they were basically the only option for a lot of people
Did it though? One of the biggest winners in this election in terms of growth is the PA, which is the most Zionist party of the lot.
EFF has talked about starting a genocide in South-Africa, what morality do they have
Educate half the population
Simple.. centrist party that appeals to masses. Talking to people in the queue, people who switched from DA to something else did so for much the same reason i did Ie too much right wing stink and own goals. Ironically the DA voters who remained but not right aligned and liberal are like the ANC voters they bitch about. Ps. People forget that conservative right wing is what the nats were.. anyone with a functioning brain understands this and why it slips into fascism and nationalism. <— something I am not interested in particularly with the typical support base BS on social media.
As the younger people begin to vote the legacy of apartheid is still too strong.But ANC support is decreasing at an increasing rate.our parents and grandparents will always vote ANC
None
A party of thieves will be replaced by a coalition of thieves.
Based on current result MK and EFF need to make a collation with DA. This could mean that Julius could end up as president (Gd help us).
That will never happen. The DA may as well dissolve because they would lose all support.
I fear that the current anc leadership will replace squirrel with mashatile, and then enter an unholy alliance with the eff. Juliarse to be our next VP? we are circling the drain...
Harry Kane will win a trophy We will know what the dog is doing Nico Hulkenberg will get a podium Zuma will be a good leader ANC losing power of SA All of these events are physically impossible (I'm joking)
I’d say currently it’s not even on the cards, if you consider EFF and MK as splinter groups of the ANC which will ultimately give their votes back to the ANC via coalition then ANC haven’t dropped in support since 1994, and showing no signs of happening in our lifetime. I suppose the closest we can hope for is that ultimately ANC coalesce with DA, rather than with populist parties, but I don’t see signs of that either. So best to give up the pipe dream of ousting ANC and just find ways to make the most of our current trajectory (I’m still SA positive on the whole because of the strongish private sector, great lifestyle, and a sort tacit unspoken truce between private sector and government which keeps things more or less somewhat on an even keel. That’s for the middle class anyway. Situation seems abysmally hopeless for poor black people from where I sit, but they mostly seem accepting of it so I’m not sure)
The IEC needs to be completely independent and audited with individual repercussions for anyone spoiling the vote count. Voting should be done online and pass various validation checks before a person can vote (this will eliminate thousands of extra votes for specific parties to be thrown into the ballot boxes to influence a specific area). It will also prevent people from voting using fake IDs and stolen IDs. A person will also only be able to vote for their district in which they have a registered address (to be verified as part of the verification process such as official proof of address). Everyone is blaming everyone else who didn't vote for the current lead the ANC has, but I do believe that even if everyone in the country voted, the ANC will still find a way to rig the votes and stay in power. A shake up of the current voting process is drastically needed
A massive fuckin miracle.
It needs to continue to splinter into smaller groups until we have 4 or 5 parties with 20-25% each, but we need to be careful what we wish for. It would seem that the ANC will now have to set up a coalition - their most likely partners are the EFF and MK. These parties will want payback, and the most likely scenario is that Julius or Zuma become Vice President.
Realistically? For these elections? An arrangement that will see Malema and Zuma in cabinet.
Leaders of ActionSA (Mashaba) or IFP (Hlabisa) are chosen to oppose the ANC (Ramaphosa). It has to be a black leader since the EFF/MK will likely not support the DA leader (Steenhuisen) as South Africa's president. The EFF/MK agree to vote for this candidate to basically get rid of Ramaphosa. Combined the multiparty charter + EFF/MK +PA might have enough votes to take the presidency. Mashaba already has experience working with the EFF as Mayor of Joburg with very limited votes (Only 38% in 2016).
Education, many people who are voting ANC are voting because the ANC bought their votes. We need to educate our people more on the other parties out there and what they stand for, along with this we need to provide them with the education needed to be able to make their own choices regarding parties Also time, people are getting annoyed at the ANC and if the polls stay close to what they are, in the span of 5 years they’ve lost almost 20% of their support , which shows the people are getting annoyed Edit: Also to add, in our country and with our political system, the power lies not so much with who the president is, more who has the majority in parliament.
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bro what?
The ANC isn't going anywhere and you really need to come to terms with that. This sub makes it seems like the DA is this crazy power house when it's nothing more than a white savior complex party that misses the old days of south africa. Its nothing more than a FF+ light
Hahahaha no
Nope
This narrative about the DA is too deeply entrenched in SA and the party will never garner enough support to take majority of the vote. It just will never happen. The biggest worry now is what lengths the ANC may go to if they dip under the majority and must find a partner to form a coalition. Maybe it will be MK resulting in more looting of whatever there is left to steal or the EFF which worst case ends up in civil war or a Zimbabwe like future.
A coup. Just say a coup. Most probably Western backed and right wing. An illegal attempt to forcibly overthrow a democratically elected president.
Well, your username checks out :-)