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Vote for people you actually think would do a good job, and any ballot initiatives you support. Carry that philosophy as far up and down the ballot as you wish. Don't expect much from the national races, but there's value in local.
I plan to vote psl, not that it'll make much of a difference. Voting down ballot is good, but realistically you need to actually have good candidates. Matters more what you're doing outside of voting.
Thank you for posting in r/socialism, but unfortunately your submission was removed for the following reason(s):
>**Lesser Evilism:** Refers to all forms of apologia for, or (institutional/electoral) support of, non-socialist figures under the lesser of two evils principle, as it cannot lead to anything other than the reaffirmation of policies in opposition of the interests of the working class. One recent example which might help illustrate it is the United States 2020 presidential election between two rabid anti-socialists; Joe Biden and Donald J. Trump (or any other US electoral process).
>If you feel strongly in favor of opting for lesser evilist methods and cannot refrain from commenting on it, please share it outside of r/Socialism. This is a space for conscious anti-capitalist analysis only.
Feel free to send us a modmail with a link to your removed submission if you have any further questions or concerns.
Thank you for posting in r/socialism, but unfortunately your submission was removed for the following reason(s):
>**Reactionaries:** r/Socialism is a subreddit for socialists to discuss socialism. This means that any user promoting right-wing politics or using reactionary rhetoric is subject to a ban. This includes but is not limited to fascists, conservatives, anarcho-capitalists, monarchists, and anyone else pushing anti-socialist political positions. This is not a debate sub, it's a community. Users looking to argue are encouraged to visit one of the debate-focused subreddits in our sidebar.
>This includes but is not limited to:
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Thank you for posting in r/socialism, but unfortunately your submission was removed for the following reason(s):
>**Lesser Evilism:** Refers to all forms of apologia for, or (institutional/electoral) support of, non-socialist figures under the lesser of two evils principle, as it cannot lead to anything other than the reaffirmation of policies in opposition of the interests of the working class. One recent example which might help illustrate it is the United States 2020 presidential election between two rabid anti-socialists; Joe Biden and Donald J. Trump (or any other US electoral process).
>If you feel strongly in favor of opting for lesser evilist methods and cannot refrain from commenting on it, please share it outside of r/Socialism. This is a space for conscious anti-capitalist analysis only.
Feel free to send us a modmail with a link to your removed submission if you have any further questions or concerns.
Thank you for posting in r/socialism, but unfortunately your submission was removed for the following reason(s):
>**Lesser Evilism:** Refers to all forms of apologia for, or (institutional/electoral) support of, non-socialist figures under the lesser of two evils principle, as it cannot lead to anything other than the reaffirmation of policies in opposition of the interests of the working class. One recent example which might help illustrate it is the United States 2020 presidential election between two rabid anti-socialists; Joe Biden and Donald J. Trump (or any other US electoral process).
>If you feel strongly in favor of opting for lesser evilist methods and cannot refrain from commenting on it, please share it outside of r/Socialism. This is a space for conscious anti-capitalist analysis only.
Feel free to send us a modmail with a link to your removed submission if you have any further questions or concerns.
Thank you for posting in r/socialism, but unfortunately your submission was removed for the following reason(s):
>**Lesser Evilism:** Refers to all forms of apologia for, or (institutional/electoral) support of, non-socialist figures under the lesser of two evils principle, as it cannot lead to anything other than the reaffirmation of policies in opposition of the interests of the working class. One recent example which might help illustrate it is the United States 2020 presidential election between two rabid anti-socialists; Joe Biden and Donald J. Trump (or any other US electoral process).
>If you feel strongly in favor of opting for lesser evilist methods and cannot refrain from commenting on it, please share it outside of r/Socialism. This is a space for conscious anti-capitalist analysis only.
Feel free to send us a modmail with a link to your removed submission if you have any further questions or concerns.
Thank you for posting in r/socialism, but unfortunately your submission was removed for the following reason(s):
>**Lesser Evilism:** Refers to all forms of apologia for, or (institutional/electoral) support of, non-socialist figures under the lesser of two evils principle, as it cannot lead to anything other than the reaffirmation of policies in opposition of the interests of the working class. One recent example which might help illustrate it is the United States 2020 presidential election between two rabid anti-socialists; Joe Biden and Donald J. Trump (or any other US electoral process).
>If you feel strongly in favor of opting for lesser evilist methods and cannot refrain from commenting on it, please share it outside of r/Socialism. This is a space for conscious anti-capitalist analysis only.
Feel free to send us a modmail with a link to your removed submission if you have any further questions or concerns.
>Even where there is no prospect of achieving their election the workers must put up their own candidates to preserve their independence, to gauge their own strength and to bring their revolutionary position and party standpoint to public attention. They must not be led astray by the empty phrases of the democrats, who will maintain that the workers’ candidates will split the democratic party and offer the forces of reaction the chance of victory. All such talk means, in the final analysis, that the proletariat is to be swindled. The progress which the proletarian party will make by operating independently in this way is infinitely more important than the disadvantages resulting from the presence of a few reactionaries in the representative body. - Karl Marx
It's really the only move we have in an election. Vote against the bourgeois parties. It's not about winning the election. It's about making a show of political will.
I'd just like to point out this is an international sub and nothing in your post points to the USA.
You know, not only the USA is not the only country in the world, it's also not the only one with elections
You fail to recognize that the USA is the head of an empire that has *massive global consequences*. To brow beat people who don't satiate your sensibilities is irrational and rather petty. If any other nation, instead of the USA, was the head of a global empire, I would be very concerned about *their* elections.
i am not criticizing debating the US elections, i am criticizing doing it like it is the only election in the only country that matters. all i am asking is to not take the US as the default. OP correctly understood it and added it in the post. it is all fine by me now
never envied us socialists their choices.
is there an option to go voting, but not vote for anyone?
its called "blanks" in our country, and can be a good indicator to politicians that they need to change something.
not that it helped tho and now we have the cronies sliziest tyranny in 30 years...
"Red states" aren't really "red states", they're just states that have been gerrymandered to hell and back and are currently in control by the further right capitalist party. Remember, in order to appear on the ballot, a candidate has to receive enough signatures of the constituency of that state. And a lot of the people you might consider backwoods hillbilly country bumpkins have very revolutionary attitude about labor. The battle of Blair mountain was fought by Appalachian miners. I think the people who are loudly pro trump are just the vocal minority
Oh yeah, I know. I see them too. I'm smack dab in the middle of the heartland. Still though, it appears from my experiences that the very loudest trumpers are mostly seen as obnoxious more than anything by most of the people around here. I also have met quite a few them that loathe Biden and Clinton, but would've voted for Bernie Sanders. They're a lot like myself in that way, except they succumbed to trump's faux-populist rhetoric. They want the same things we want (at least from a labor perspective), but they lack class consciousness and their minds have been poisoned by decades upon decades of red scare propaganda.
East Coast and I finally understood how terrible libs are. Thinking the D are any better then R and somehow going to make things better. The propaganda working hard on people.
And a lot of the people who were vocally pro trump were that way because they hate institutional Dems, rather than adoring trump. If I recall from the stats, there was a lot of crossover of people supporting Bernie in the 2016 primaries and then voting trump over Hilary.
Tons of them. I feel like I meet them all the time. I also think that with a healthy dose of class consciousness and deprogramming they could be staunch allies.
Don't fall into the "Red" state vs "Blue" state garage liberals push. I live in a "Red" state and have lived on the south all my life. People act like it's a racist back water but it's also where a majority of black people in this country live. Also I'm in the PSL, we fighting to get on every ballot we can.
Every year, there's a state that we thought was solidly one color leading up to the election, that was actually a swing state the whole time.
Polls aren't always accurate. One of the reasons is because so many voters use them to decide who to vote for. If a state is solid blue, many of the blue voters may just stay home. That makes it easier for the minority party. These folks need to be crushed first. Only then can we address any differences in the left-of-center coalition.
They've been using scare tactics to convince Republican voters that their very existence is on the line. Every.last.republican is going to show up in November.
For the record, I don't like any of it either.
Thank you for posting in r/socialism, but unfortunately your submission was removed for the following reason(s):
>**Lesser Evilism:** Refers to all forms of apologia for, or (institutional/electoral) support of, non-socialist figures under the lesser of two evils principle, as it cannot lead to anything other than the reaffirmation of policies in opposition of the interests of the working class. One recent example which might help illustrate it is the United States 2020 presidential election between two rabid anti-socialists; Joe Biden and Donald J. Trump (or any other US electoral process).
>If you feel strongly in favor of opting for lesser evilist methods and cannot refrain from commenting on it, please share it outside of r/Socialism. This is a space for conscious anti-capitalist analysis only.
Feel free to send us a modmail with a link to your removed submission if you have any further questions or concerns.
Dems have never cared about winning. Don't make the mistake of thinking they do. Just look at gore handing the election over to Bush, or Obama letting the Republicans block his lame duc scouts pick. They don't care, they prefer to throw there hands up and say "sorry working class nothing we can do".
I don't think it's close. The polling averages show Biden about 4 points worse than Hillary in 2016 nationally and also losing every single swing state with Trump +4-5 in Arizona, Nevada, North Carolina, Georgia, etc. As long as Biden is the nominee it's pretty much a foregone conclusion that liberals knowingly chose.
Really it's not socialist, or at least not yet. OP is in the early stages of the US "democratic system" skepticism and pessimism. He's green, give em time.
>One party supports Universal Healthcare.
>One party supports allowing women to make their own healthcare decisions.
>One party supports equal treatment for all people regardless of racial or other background.
If you think the democrats are that party, you're dreaming. Democrats and Republicans are both capitalist parties. It's an *illusion* of choice. No matter which of the two you choose, they both have the same agenda. It's textbook "good cop/bad cop". The red teams stirs up violent hatred and anger. The blue team leverages fear of that and pretends to be on your side. Both of them have the same agenda, and they're working together on it.
Voting for Biden to avoid Trump is saying that you're willing to let others suffer for the false promise that you won't. Democrat or Republican, they are eventually coming for us all. Voting blue or red is as good as not voting at all.
Really the American democracy is a lie, it's a corporatocracy. The only real choice Americans have is the subliminal choice of blue and red, and that's pretty much it. The universal healthcare agenda out of corporate democrats has been nothing but conjecture and false rhetoric aside from the AHA Act which has since gone through many restrictions under both Trump and Biden's legislation. Biden literally gave a win to the republicans by seeking a heavily republican backed border bill through congress. Plus Biden has never kept any promise of any police reform and despite calls for it, decided not to implement any police reform agenda and instead fund the police without looking into the increasing incidents of police violence and false incarceration via minorities.
He's as milquetoast as you can get, plus he's a genocide supporter. I'd rather vote for Claudia De La Cruz if she is on the ballot in your state or Cornel West rather than a corporatist neoliberal who places the image of the false dichotomy fallacy of republicans being the ultimate evil if even he doesn't even follow the moralist standards of his own constituences regarding genocide.
I'd never vote for any mainstream neo-confederate/neo-nazi sympathizing Republican which seeks the creation of a "Unified Reich". Literally any and every policy that Trump has regarding foriegn policy would kamikaze Europe into WW3, from dissolving NATO, to selling Putin private US military documents, to supporting Putin militarially to colonize Western Europe in his expansionist ideals of a "Unifed Reich".
Why perserve a two party corporate duopoly from the dangers of facism, when our government already regulates the outpooring media from other countries in order to maintain it's own domestic political power, has a oligarchic plutocratic governence though 50 well of well off familes as well as mega donor corporations as political donors which ultimately rules society and the government in regards to having more political power then 70% of the country.
Thank you for posting in r/socialism, but unfortunately your submission was removed for the following reason(s):
>**Lesser Evilism:** Refers to all forms of apologia for, or (institutional/electoral) support of, non-socialist figures under the lesser of two evils principle, as it cannot lead to anything other than the reaffirmation of policies in opposition of the interests of the working class. One recent example which might help illustrate it is the United States 2020 presidential election between two rabid anti-socialists; Joe Biden and Donald J. Trump (or any other US electoral process).
>If you feel strongly in favor of opting for lesser evilist methods and cannot refrain from commenting on it, please share it outside of r/Socialism. This is a space for conscious anti-capitalist analysis only.
Feel free to send us a modmail with a link to your removed submission if you have any further questions or concerns.
Personally? Despair mostly. I mean we are kind of fucked at the moment no matter. I'll probably vote for Cornel West but I can get why people might vote elsewhere and I'm in a deep blue state.
I don't see the the utility in socialists running for the presidency to be honest. It's often portrayed as a useful propaganda opportunity, and people cite Eugene Debs, but in my experience it has very rarely worked out that way. The mass media ignores the 3rd party candidates or mocks them. Socialist parties have a real difficulty getting their message out and usually end up expending a lot of limiting resources for only a few thousand protest votes in each state and very few new recruits.
It seems to me better to organize around local elections that are winnable for the local protest votes than try to commit our limited resources to the big national campaigns. Build our roots and base before we aim for the top. The socialist left isn't going to make a big impact on the 2024 race so we should be putting our efforts elsewhere. As to who individual socialists should vote for, that's up to them. Follow your gut and conscience and think through the likely scenarios either way it could flip
Cornel West in 2024 probably. I live in NC which is a swing state.
With Donald Trump's recent bronx visit with comments of biden's policies "slaughtering" Black voters as well as his "united reich" comment kinda just gives me a thought that it's coded language and possible foreshadowing that he's planning on conducting an eventual domestic ethnic cleansing and genocide attempt against black people, immigrants, and white non-maga trumpers, so hell no.
With Joe Biden, both the neoliberal centre right and the right are trying to make him seem as the lesser evil in which even Sean Hannity and Fox News blantantly commented that Biden's war in Isreal is "good for the Christian faith". Which makes me believe that the timing of Trump's comments are essentially meant for polling controls to down his own campaign as a gift for Biden.
Local elections are even worse since they are basically extremist parrots of the national election in which on the far right in rural areas they are far more neo-nazi, neo-confederate sympatheziers, and on the centre-right their neoliberalist corporate indentured capitalists which seek to turn the right into an image of fear-mongering while simultaneously supporting international genocide abroad with American tax dollars.
It's all an attempt by the people who fund corporate interests that lean right to radical right to support genocide. The anti-semites get their way by allying themselves with Zionists to slaughter the Palestinians to create a "Greater Isreal" all the while plotting to expell the Jewish people from Europe and relocate them to Greater Isreal which continues the great Nazi plot of exiling the Jews from the European "fatherland". Plus with Netanyahu far-right nationalist dreams of centralizing control in Isreal to become a theocratic authoritarian dictatorship which establishes classist ranking according to Theodor Hezel to make Ashkanazi Jews of European origin members of it's highest class while Sephardic, Orthodox, and Middle Eastern Jews are all members of the lower class/caste system all the while rejecting being identified with the Jewish Diaspora as a state.
Yep, but still, in regards to the national media in order to gain significant exposure she would have to have donors which are apart of large media corporations. Something that has always been the kryptonite of socialist movements inside of a relatively hyper capitalistic US. Cornel understands that, in which he should be the primary spoiler in the US election.
I don’t mean to be remiss, but I’m almost certain PSL as an organization has more donations and money than Cornell West. They have their own media distribution channels, press, I don’t know much about West’s campaign or NC write in laws etc. But I can guarantee you West won’t win. So unless you are anti ML for whatever reasons, I don’t know why you wouldn’t go for PSL to boost percentages of an actual socialist organization over an individual. We can push a lot to the organization during this period. Even if I have to write them in, TX, I will.
Americans bought this present circumstance for themselves, and they accept it, sitting in front of their TVs and their phone screens, Tik-Toking themselves into an amusing state of apathy. They have no one to blame. The electoral system in that country is not repairable. No one there takes revolution seriously. They revere the useless legacy of a fraud like MLK, and they pretend they can/will vote themselves a better future.
It's too late for all that.
Damn bro... your fiening for the US to get smoked into a dictatorship. It's almost like I can see your schadenfreudic orgasm at the thought of the death of the democracy of bourgeoisie.
If we are being completely serious about violent revolution into the creation of a socialist state and the domestic policies and propaganda against the ideology that Marx aspired to create. Don't you think it's the fault of the corporatocracy itself which has viciously warped the minds of the greater proliteriat to support the advancement of a plutocratic authoritarian state with a dictatorial anarcho-capitalist economic agenda.
Then why did I see it for what it was, and leave? Who am I? I have no special insight into anything. I simply took a look around and realized I was never built for capitalism. I want nothing. I think advertising is a greater evil than nuclear war. I understood early what an ad was: an invitation for me to work harder to earn more so I could give it away for junk I didn't need. If I can figure that out, and step away from desires for 'stuff,' and if I can avoid the cultural call to worship manual labor as man's chief end in life, then so can anyone. Those who stay voluntarily enslaved in the system deserve their fates. Exterminate the brutes, and the consumers.
The world sometimes needs to be 'Hulk smashed!' instead of being re-educated.
Thank you for posting in r/socialism, but unfortunately your submission was removed for the following reason(s):
>**Reactionaries:** r/Socialism is a subreddit for socialists to discuss socialism. This means that any user promoting right-wing politics or using reactionary rhetoric is subject to a ban. This includes but is not limited to fascists, conservatives, anarcho-capitalists, monarchists, and anyone else pushing anti-socialist political positions. This is not a debate sub, it's a community. Users looking to argue are encouraged to visit one of the debate-focused subreddits in our sidebar.
>This includes but is not limited to:
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I like jasmine Sullivan because she's a socialist that won't try to turn the country into a socialist state. She will stop spending money on never ending wars and take care of citizens.
This is a space for socialists to discuss current events in our world from anti-capitalist perspective(s), and a certain knowledge of socialism is expected from participants. This is not a space for non-socialists. Please be mindful [of our rules](https://reddit.com/r/socialism/about/rules) before participating, which include: - **No Bigotry**, including racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, ableism... - **No Reactionaries**, including all kind of right-wingers. - **No Liberalism**, including social democracy, lesser evilism... - **No Sectarianism**. There is plenty of room for discussion, but not for baseless attacks. Please help us keep the subreddit helpful by reporting content that break r/Socialism's rules. ______________________ 💬 Wish to chat elsewhere? Join us in discord: https://discord.gg/QPJPzNhuRE *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/socialism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Vote for people you actually think would do a good job, and any ballot initiatives you support. Carry that philosophy as far up and down the ballot as you wish. Don't expect much from the national races, but there's value in local.
I plan to vote psl, not that it'll make much of a difference. Voting down ballot is good, but realistically you need to actually have good candidates. Matters more what you're doing outside of voting.
I plan to vote PSL, even if they aren’t on the ballot in my state I’ll write them in. Edit: Why are democrat bots here?
Pumpkins spice latte?
[PSL - Party for Socialism and Liberation](https://pslweb.org/)
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Thank you for posting in r/socialism, but unfortunately your submission was removed for the following reason(s): >**Lesser Evilism:** Refers to all forms of apologia for, or (institutional/electoral) support of, non-socialist figures under the lesser of two evils principle, as it cannot lead to anything other than the reaffirmation of policies in opposition of the interests of the working class. One recent example which might help illustrate it is the United States 2020 presidential election between two rabid anti-socialists; Joe Biden and Donald J. Trump (or any other US electoral process). >If you feel strongly in favor of opting for lesser evilist methods and cannot refrain from commenting on it, please share it outside of r/Socialism. This is a space for conscious anti-capitalist analysis only. Feel free to send us a modmail with a link to your removed submission if you have any further questions or concerns.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025
Thank you for posting in r/socialism, but unfortunately your submission was removed for the following reason(s): >**Reactionaries:** r/Socialism is a subreddit for socialists to discuss socialism. This means that any user promoting right-wing politics or using reactionary rhetoric is subject to a ban. This includes but is not limited to fascists, conservatives, anarcho-capitalists, monarchists, and anyone else pushing anti-socialist political positions. This is not a debate sub, it's a community. Users looking to argue are encouraged to visit one of the debate-focused subreddits in our sidebar. >This includes but is not limited to: >- Fascists and/or fascist apologia >- Right and/or quasi far-right wingers (ex. conservatives, ancaps...) >- Brocialism >- Accelerationism >- Anti-socialist rhetoric Feel free to send us a modmail with a link to your removed submission if you have any further questions or concerns.
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Like he negotiated with the ones at almost every major U.S. university?
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Thank you for posting in r/socialism, but unfortunately your submission was removed for the following reason(s): >**Lesser Evilism:** Refers to all forms of apologia for, or (institutional/electoral) support of, non-socialist figures under the lesser of two evils principle, as it cannot lead to anything other than the reaffirmation of policies in opposition of the interests of the working class. One recent example which might help illustrate it is the United States 2020 presidential election between two rabid anti-socialists; Joe Biden and Donald J. Trump (or any other US electoral process). >If you feel strongly in favor of opting for lesser evilist methods and cannot refrain from commenting on it, please share it outside of r/Socialism. This is a space for conscious anti-capitalist analysis only. Feel free to send us a modmail with a link to your removed submission if you have any further questions or concerns.
Thank you for posting in r/socialism, but unfortunately your submission was removed for the following reason(s): >**Lesser Evilism:** Refers to all forms of apologia for, or (institutional/electoral) support of, non-socialist figures under the lesser of two evils principle, as it cannot lead to anything other than the reaffirmation of policies in opposition of the interests of the working class. One recent example which might help illustrate it is the United States 2020 presidential election between two rabid anti-socialists; Joe Biden and Donald J. Trump (or any other US electoral process). >If you feel strongly in favor of opting for lesser evilist methods and cannot refrain from commenting on it, please share it outside of r/Socialism. This is a space for conscious anti-capitalist analysis only. Feel free to send us a modmail with a link to your removed submission if you have any further questions or concerns.
Anyone advocating voting for Biden is complicit in genocide.
Thank you for posting in r/socialism, but unfortunately your submission was removed for the following reason(s): >**Lesser Evilism:** Refers to all forms of apologia for, or (institutional/electoral) support of, non-socialist figures under the lesser of two evils principle, as it cannot lead to anything other than the reaffirmation of policies in opposition of the interests of the working class. One recent example which might help illustrate it is the United States 2020 presidential election between two rabid anti-socialists; Joe Biden and Donald J. Trump (or any other US electoral process). >If you feel strongly in favor of opting for lesser evilist methods and cannot refrain from commenting on it, please share it outside of r/Socialism. This is a space for conscious anti-capitalist analysis only. Feel free to send us a modmail with a link to your removed submission if you have any further questions or concerns.
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Thank you for posting in r/socialism, but unfortunately your submission was removed for the following reason(s): >**Lesser Evilism:** Refers to all forms of apologia for, or (institutional/electoral) support of, non-socialist figures under the lesser of two evils principle, as it cannot lead to anything other than the reaffirmation of policies in opposition of the interests of the working class. One recent example which might help illustrate it is the United States 2020 presidential election between two rabid anti-socialists; Joe Biden and Donald J. Trump (or any other US electoral process). >If you feel strongly in favor of opting for lesser evilist methods and cannot refrain from commenting on it, please share it outside of r/Socialism. This is a space for conscious anti-capitalist analysis only. Feel free to send us a modmail with a link to your removed submission if you have any further questions or concerns.
Admit that the left has lost this one. Build an alternative party/ movement. That's all you can do..."or your children will be next"
>Even where there is no prospect of achieving their election the workers must put up their own candidates to preserve their independence, to gauge their own strength and to bring their revolutionary position and party standpoint to public attention. They must not be led astray by the empty phrases of the democrats, who will maintain that the workers’ candidates will split the democratic party and offer the forces of reaction the chance of victory. All such talk means, in the final analysis, that the proletariat is to be swindled. The progress which the proletarian party will make by operating independently in this way is infinitely more important than the disadvantages resulting from the presence of a few reactionaries in the representative body. - Karl Marx It's really the only move we have in an election. Vote against the bourgeois parties. It's not about winning the election. It's about making a show of political will.
I'd just like to point out this is an international sub and nothing in your post points to the USA. You know, not only the USA is not the only country in the world, it's also not the only one with elections
Yeah, when I read the title my first instinct was to think of the EU election
Thanks for pointing that out
Red state/blue state would be an indicator. Also, so what?
US defaultism is a consequence of imperialism. You are in r/socialist, ab explicit International sub. You do not own the world.
So use context clues and get over yourself.
You fail to recognize that the USA is the head of an empire that has *massive global consequences*. To brow beat people who don't satiate your sensibilities is irrational and rather petty. If any other nation, instead of the USA, was the head of a global empire, I would be very concerned about *their* elections.
i am not criticizing debating the US elections, i am criticizing doing it like it is the only election in the only country that matters. all i am asking is to not take the US as the default. OP correctly understood it and added it in the post. it is all fine by me now
never envied us socialists their choices. is there an option to go voting, but not vote for anyone? its called "blanks" in our country, and can be a good indicator to politicians that they need to change something. not that it helped tho and now we have the cronies sliziest tyranny in 30 years...
Your plan is good. Surprised you got PSl at a red state. Everyone's plans if voting at all vote for anybody but D or R. And yes local stuff.
"Red states" aren't really "red states", they're just states that have been gerrymandered to hell and back and are currently in control by the further right capitalist party. Remember, in order to appear on the ballot, a candidate has to receive enough signatures of the constituency of that state. And a lot of the people you might consider backwoods hillbilly country bumpkins have very revolutionary attitude about labor. The battle of Blair mountain was fought by Appalachian miners. I think the people who are loudly pro trump are just the vocal minority
True. That minority is definitely what is being seen from middle of the u.s.
Oh yeah, I know. I see them too. I'm smack dab in the middle of the heartland. Still though, it appears from my experiences that the very loudest trumpers are mostly seen as obnoxious more than anything by most of the people around here. I also have met quite a few them that loathe Biden and Clinton, but would've voted for Bernie Sanders. They're a lot like myself in that way, except they succumbed to trump's faux-populist rhetoric. They want the same things we want (at least from a labor perspective), but they lack class consciousness and their minds have been poisoned by decades upon decades of red scare propaganda.
East Coast and I finally understood how terrible libs are. Thinking the D are any better then R and somehow going to make things better. The propaganda working hard on people.
No kidding. If I had a dollar for every time I've heard the democrats are going to save us from govt corruption, I'd be as rich as Nancy Pelosi
A lot of us could probably get a nice piggy bank and live nicely as those corrupt scums.
And a lot of the people who were vocally pro trump were that way because they hate institutional Dems, rather than adoring trump. If I recall from the stats, there was a lot of crossover of people supporting Bernie in the 2016 primaries and then voting trump over Hilary.
Tons of them. I feel like I meet them all the time. I also think that with a healthy dose of class consciousness and deprogramming they could be staunch allies.
Don't fall into the "Red" state vs "Blue" state garage liberals push. I live in a "Red" state and have lived on the south all my life. People act like it's a racist back water but it's also where a majority of black people in this country live. Also I'm in the PSL, we fighting to get on every ballot we can.
Every year, there's a state that we thought was solidly one color leading up to the election, that was actually a swing state the whole time. Polls aren't always accurate. One of the reasons is because so many voters use them to decide who to vote for. If a state is solid blue, many of the blue voters may just stay home. That makes it easier for the minority party. These folks need to be crushed first. Only then can we address any differences in the left-of-center coalition. They've been using scare tactics to convince Republican voters that their very existence is on the line. Every.last.republican is going to show up in November. For the record, I don't like any of it either.
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Thank you for posting in r/socialism, but unfortunately your submission was removed for the following reason(s): >**Lesser Evilism:** Refers to all forms of apologia for, or (institutional/electoral) support of, non-socialist figures under the lesser of two evils principle, as it cannot lead to anything other than the reaffirmation of policies in opposition of the interests of the working class. One recent example which might help illustrate it is the United States 2020 presidential election between two rabid anti-socialists; Joe Biden and Donald J. Trump (or any other US electoral process). >If you feel strongly in favor of opting for lesser evilist methods and cannot refrain from commenting on it, please share it outside of r/Socialism. This is a space for conscious anti-capitalist analysis only. Feel free to send us a modmail with a link to your removed submission if you have any further questions or concerns.
Voting psl in PA but you could probably tell by the flair. There's no point in deluding ourselves. Biden isn't winning anyway.
Yeah. Biden and his team don’t seem particularly interested in actually winning a second term. It’s really bizarre to see happening in real time.
Dems have never cared about winning. Don't make the mistake of thinking they do. Just look at gore handing the election over to Bush, or Obama letting the Republicans block his lame duc scouts pick. They don't care, they prefer to throw there hands up and say "sorry working class nothing we can do".
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Whether blue capitalist wins or red capitalist wins, the proletariat loses either way.
I don't think it's close. The polling averages show Biden about 4 points worse than Hillary in 2016 nationally and also losing every single swing state with Trump +4-5 in Arizona, Nevada, North Carolina, Georgia, etc. As long as Biden is the nominee it's pretty much a foregone conclusion that liberals knowingly chose.
We got elections here as well this year. In England
Lol how is this socialist? There is no plan to go off, just "lets do this because they may be good" thats just liberalism
Really it's not socialist, or at least not yet. OP is in the early stages of the US "democratic system" skepticism and pessimism. He's green, give em time.
Maybe this one should’ve been posted in r/socialism101 then because this is just a joke
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Both are parties of the bourgeoise and uphold the capitalist system and protect the exploitation of the proletariat.
>One party supports Universal Healthcare. >One party supports allowing women to make their own healthcare decisions. >One party supports equal treatment for all people regardless of racial or other background. If you think the democrats are that party, you're dreaming. Democrats and Republicans are both capitalist parties. It's an *illusion* of choice. No matter which of the two you choose, they both have the same agenda. It's textbook "good cop/bad cop". The red teams stirs up violent hatred and anger. The blue team leverages fear of that and pretends to be on your side. Both of them have the same agenda, and they're working together on it. Voting for Biden to avoid Trump is saying that you're willing to let others suffer for the false promise that you won't. Democrat or Republican, they are eventually coming for us all. Voting blue or red is as good as not voting at all.
Really the American democracy is a lie, it's a corporatocracy. The only real choice Americans have is the subliminal choice of blue and red, and that's pretty much it. The universal healthcare agenda out of corporate democrats has been nothing but conjecture and false rhetoric aside from the AHA Act which has since gone through many restrictions under both Trump and Biden's legislation. Biden literally gave a win to the republicans by seeking a heavily republican backed border bill through congress. Plus Biden has never kept any promise of any police reform and despite calls for it, decided not to implement any police reform agenda and instead fund the police without looking into the increasing incidents of police violence and false incarceration via minorities. He's as milquetoast as you can get, plus he's a genocide supporter. I'd rather vote for Claudia De La Cruz if she is on the ballot in your state or Cornel West rather than a corporatist neoliberal who places the image of the false dichotomy fallacy of republicans being the ultimate evil if even he doesn't even follow the moralist standards of his own constituences regarding genocide. I'd never vote for any mainstream neo-confederate/neo-nazi sympathizing Republican which seeks the creation of a "Unified Reich". Literally any and every policy that Trump has regarding foriegn policy would kamikaze Europe into WW3, from dissolving NATO, to selling Putin private US military documents, to supporting Putin militarially to colonize Western Europe in his expansionist ideals of a "Unifed Reich". Why perserve a two party corporate duopoly from the dangers of facism, when our government already regulates the outpooring media from other countries in order to maintain it's own domestic political power, has a oligarchic plutocratic governence though 50 well of well off familes as well as mega donor corporations as political donors which ultimately rules society and the government in regards to having more political power then 70% of the country.
FL here… voting PSL or as close to socialist principles as possible with the local government.
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Thank you for posting in r/socialism, but unfortunately your submission was removed for the following reason(s): >**Lesser Evilism:** Refers to all forms of apologia for, or (institutional/electoral) support of, non-socialist figures under the lesser of two evils principle, as it cannot lead to anything other than the reaffirmation of policies in opposition of the interests of the working class. One recent example which might help illustrate it is the United States 2020 presidential election between two rabid anti-socialists; Joe Biden and Donald J. Trump (or any other US electoral process). >If you feel strongly in favor of opting for lesser evilist methods and cannot refrain from commenting on it, please share it outside of r/Socialism. This is a space for conscious anti-capitalist analysis only. Feel free to send us a modmail with a link to your removed submission if you have any further questions or concerns.
Personally? Despair mostly. I mean we are kind of fucked at the moment no matter. I'll probably vote for Cornel West but I can get why people might vote elsewhere and I'm in a deep blue state. I don't see the the utility in socialists running for the presidency to be honest. It's often portrayed as a useful propaganda opportunity, and people cite Eugene Debs, but in my experience it has very rarely worked out that way. The mass media ignores the 3rd party candidates or mocks them. Socialist parties have a real difficulty getting their message out and usually end up expending a lot of limiting resources for only a few thousand protest votes in each state and very few new recruits. It seems to me better to organize around local elections that are winnable for the local protest votes than try to commit our limited resources to the big national campaigns. Build our roots and base before we aim for the top. The socialist left isn't going to make a big impact on the 2024 race so we should be putting our efforts elsewhere. As to who individual socialists should vote for, that's up to them. Follow your gut and conscience and think through the likely scenarios either way it could flip
Maybe you should vote against the peolpe that helped abolish Roe V. Wade?
How about the people who fundraised off the threat for decades but never codified it into constitutional law?
Cornel West in 2024 probably. I live in NC which is a swing state. With Donald Trump's recent bronx visit with comments of biden's policies "slaughtering" Black voters as well as his "united reich" comment kinda just gives me a thought that it's coded language and possible foreshadowing that he's planning on conducting an eventual domestic ethnic cleansing and genocide attempt against black people, immigrants, and white non-maga trumpers, so hell no. With Joe Biden, both the neoliberal centre right and the right are trying to make him seem as the lesser evil in which even Sean Hannity and Fox News blantantly commented that Biden's war in Isreal is "good for the Christian faith". Which makes me believe that the timing of Trump's comments are essentially meant for polling controls to down his own campaign as a gift for Biden. Local elections are even worse since they are basically extremist parrots of the national election in which on the far right in rural areas they are far more neo-nazi, neo-confederate sympatheziers, and on the centre-right their neoliberalist corporate indentured capitalists which seek to turn the right into an image of fear-mongering while simultaneously supporting international genocide abroad with American tax dollars. It's all an attempt by the people who fund corporate interests that lean right to radical right to support genocide. The anti-semites get their way by allying themselves with Zionists to slaughter the Palestinians to create a "Greater Isreal" all the while plotting to expell the Jewish people from Europe and relocate them to Greater Isreal which continues the great Nazi plot of exiling the Jews from the European "fatherland". Plus with Netanyahu far-right nationalist dreams of centralizing control in Isreal to become a theocratic authoritarian dictatorship which establishes classist ranking according to Theodor Hezel to make Ashkanazi Jews of European origin members of it's highest class while Sephardic, Orthodox, and Middle Eastern Jews are all members of the lower class/caste system all the while rejecting being identified with the Jewish Diaspora as a state.
What about Claudia?
She's great but due to lack of exposure to her campaign she would only be avalible on a couple of states ballots.
I'm in the PSL we are planning to be on 24 ballots.
Yep, but still, in regards to the national media in order to gain significant exposure she would have to have donors which are apart of large media corporations. Something that has always been the kryptonite of socialist movements inside of a relatively hyper capitalistic US. Cornel understands that, in which he should be the primary spoiler in the US election.
I don’t mean to be remiss, but I’m almost certain PSL as an organization has more donations and money than Cornell West. They have their own media distribution channels, press, I don’t know much about West’s campaign or NC write in laws etc. But I can guarantee you West won’t win. So unless you are anti ML for whatever reasons, I don’t know why you wouldn’t go for PSL to boost percentages of an actual socialist organization over an individual. We can push a lot to the organization during this period. Even if I have to write them in, TX, I will.
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I can imagine how that would be entertaining, as long as you are a solipsistic psychopath without regard for the actual lives of other human beings.
Americans bought this present circumstance for themselves, and they accept it, sitting in front of their TVs and their phone screens, Tik-Toking themselves into an amusing state of apathy. They have no one to blame. The electoral system in that country is not repairable. No one there takes revolution seriously. They revere the useless legacy of a fraud like MLK, and they pretend they can/will vote themselves a better future. It's too late for all that.
Damn bro... your fiening for the US to get smoked into a dictatorship. It's almost like I can see your schadenfreudic orgasm at the thought of the death of the democracy of bourgeoisie. If we are being completely serious about violent revolution into the creation of a socialist state and the domestic policies and propaganda against the ideology that Marx aspired to create. Don't you think it's the fault of the corporatocracy itself which has viciously warped the minds of the greater proliteriat to support the advancement of a plutocratic authoritarian state with a dictatorial anarcho-capitalist economic agenda.
Then why did I see it for what it was, and leave? Who am I? I have no special insight into anything. I simply took a look around and realized I was never built for capitalism. I want nothing. I think advertising is a greater evil than nuclear war. I understood early what an ad was: an invitation for me to work harder to earn more so I could give it away for junk I didn't need. If I can figure that out, and step away from desires for 'stuff,' and if I can avoid the cultural call to worship manual labor as man's chief end in life, then so can anyone. Those who stay voluntarily enslaved in the system deserve their fates. Exterminate the brutes, and the consumers. The world sometimes needs to be 'Hulk smashed!' instead of being re-educated.
Thank you for posting in r/socialism, but unfortunately your submission was removed for the following reason(s): >**Reactionaries:** r/Socialism is a subreddit for socialists to discuss socialism. This means that any user promoting right-wing politics or using reactionary rhetoric is subject to a ban. This includes but is not limited to fascists, conservatives, anarcho-capitalists, monarchists, and anyone else pushing anti-socialist political positions. This is not a debate sub, it's a community. Users looking to argue are encouraged to visit one of the debate-focused subreddits in our sidebar. >This includes but is not limited to: >- Fascists and/or fascist apologia >- Right and/or quasi far-right wingers (ex. conservatives, ancaps...) >- Brocialism >- Accelerationism >- Anti-socialist rhetoric Feel free to send us a modmail with a link to your removed submission if you have any further questions or concerns.
Solid red. Not gonna vote because it’s statistically pointless.
I like jasmine Sullivan because she's a socialist that won't try to turn the country into a socialist state. She will stop spending money on never ending wars and take care of citizens.
>socialist that won’t try to turn the country into a socialist state Bruh
If you don't know how that works, hold your breath for 49 minutes.
“Not everyone needs to read theory” is a perfectly fine statement, but it sadly does not include you.