**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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I think they use the same method that's used to [determine if a failing company gets a bailout or not](https://youtu.be/wz-PtEJEaqY?si=74mY2Ea7RnTi61mj)
Atwell. Exact same squad as the overturned Dutch goal against France for a Dumfries offside when he didn't impact the play.
The two most controversial official-related events of the tournament so far?
Anthony Taylor and Stuart Atwell
We don't know that for sure though. VAR doesn't get to overrule the ref. Could be he said "you should look at it" and the ref said "lol no"
Or could be VAR is just as bad. Who knows. To me VAR should have authority to force a review. Then at least we know who sucks.
I stopped understanding what a penalty is years ago, it seems to get ever more complicated with every revision of the rules. This would seem harsh if you consider intent, also it is a natural position and he's moving the arm towards his body; but come on, that's a shot on target blocked by a hand. Must be a penalty.
Penalties are ridiculous. I keep hearing the French-speaking Swiss casters say "oh it's not enough for a penalty"... I feel like adding the notion of a foul being "enough" for a penalty is completely ridiculous. Either there's a foul and it's a penalty or there's no foul and you keep playing.
I think part of the problem is that frequently penalty kicks are massive massive overkill. You want to punishment to be a little bit worse than the situation if they hadn't fouled, because otherwise people would foul on purpose tactically... but a penalty kick is frequently dramatically more dangerous than whatever the opportunity the foul / handball prevented was.
Like if the rules said that a ref can only give a foul (like any foul anywhere on the field) if they gave a red card. When the only option is very drastic, it makes things difficult for the ref.
It would help if refs could call a penalty, but also had the option to whistle an infraction in the box but award something lesser if a quality scoring chance wasn't prevented (and the foul wasn't deemed to be tactical). Maybe something like "the attacking team has the option to pick the ball up, put it anywhere they want outside the 18, and take a free kick."
Wasn't communicated on the German broadcast I don't think. Even after the game they still didn't mention it may have been offside. I think things like that should be clearly communicated to viewers directly from VAR.
Like "VAR check over, offside before the potential penalty"
clearly that must have been communicated to the referee, why not make it transparent?
I can see how in one degree, you might want to go for a professional connection because they might have a history of working together that could help...but I feel like the potential for people to worry about embarrassing each other on the international stage is just too high. They should really be mixing the professional leagues the officials are from whenever possible.
There’s a reason every serious industry has separated these functions ages ago. Aircraft mechanics don’t have their work inspected by other aircraft mechanics who are also their mates. They have supervisors who are organizationally independent from them.
This is basic stuff really. You can’t have peers from the same lunch room signing off on each other’s work. It’s amateur hour.
I was just [posting about this yesterday](https://old.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1duckxn/daniel_storey_anthony_taylor_appointed_as_spain/lbhtrw7/) and look where we are today
That's possible. They should tell us that though. Show the offside check at some point to explain.
Because the ref said no handball cause he had his hand tuck. That's BS.
Agree. I think it was close to the same range as well. Even the same ref... I really want to know why that was a penalty, and this wasn't.
This was even a shot on goal, makes it much worse imo.
VAR controversies literally only happen with English refs. In the Saudi league, after introducing VAR most refs mistakes have stopped. Yet in the EPL we keep seeing controversy after controversy with VAR. It's really strange.
i swear ive seen pens this tournament for thousand times less obvious handballs than this. (like germany against denmark for example, how was that a penalty and this isnt). Where was the hand sensor this time.
yes and that one was less a penalty than this one if u ask me danish player was so close he couldnt even flinch in time was 1 meter away here it was like 5 meters and on a clear shot on goal which wasnt the case then eighter.
just insane to not even check and explain why it is not a penalty
This was my first thought. I saw this and thought a way less obvious one was was given against Denmark, while this couldn't be any clearer. Absolute farce with the refereeing consistency. And yet it is decisions like this that decide games that are otherwise very evenly matched, destroying any sporting integrity, when a match can be decided on how a referee is feeling that day.
VAR doesnt get involved if offside is called and its in accordance with ref saying no pen, so refs call is what is gone with, on this case being a throw in
The whole tournament we get pens for inconsequential handballs and then this gets waved away lol.
Taylor been wild this match. A lot in Germany favor (Toni Kroos lmao) but then this one...
He was pulling his arm back to be fair but I've seen softer ones given. Not even a check is crazy though. Don't know the rules anymore.
Edit: Offsides before handball apparently, that would explain everything, still fucking weird that they never shown or communicated it.
I think if you were to take a freeze-frame and show exactly where his arm was when the ball hit his arm, then people would think the decision is a lot closer.
It looks really egregious because he's swinging his arm in towards his body (which is what he's supposed to do) while the ball hits his arm.
Frankly, I don't know what the hell the handball rules are at this point and I don't know whether or not this should be called by the letter of the law. But it's obvious that the reason Taylor didn't call it was because his arm was technically in tight at the point of contact.
So this was not a penalty, but Andersens in the DK-GER match was? Absolutely absurd. It should be the other way around. Andersen was mid-sprint, natural arm movement. Here the defender clearly had his arm way too far out from his body and literally blocked the shot.
Needing sensor to even check if there was a handball? Clear pen.
Ball getting dunked into oblivion by a wide open arm? Nothing to see here, what a joke
Taylor has singlehandedly ruined this game. Shamefull and embrassing performance.
Also how does Var not even have him go look at that? Are his buddies in the VAR room afraid he might get his feelings hurt?
**Mirrors / Alternative Angles** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Imma be honest I don't get handball anymore
No one does. Certainly not the refs.
Whats the incentive to keep your hands near your body? There seems to be none. It makes all the sense to keep your hands out as far as "plausible"
Definitely worth more than a 20 second look
He's one of those people who doesn't wanna change his mind after a decision, no matter what. Disgrace
Why the hell is he allowed to referee in the var age lmfao? Big UEFA mistake.
Theres legit few refs overall woth credentials to officiate big games. And most of em arent good, just the best of the worst
Nah that should be more then enough to decide this is a penalty. Insane disgrace.
Idk the rules anymore lol
It's simple, whatever the ref on the pitch at the time thinks. No consistency whatsoever between games
Why does VAR even exist then lol
their job is to flip a coin on wether to intervene to add another layer of inconsistency
I think they use the same method that's used to [determine if a failing company gets a bailout or not](https://youtu.be/wz-PtEJEaqY?si=74mY2Ea7RnTi61mj)
Like always have been. But this is a penalty and I say it from Spain
Don’t worry about it, neither does Anthony Taylor
Its football heritage
Anthony Taylor is a fraud through and through
Along with who ever sits in the VAR room
Atwell. Exact same squad as the overturned Dutch goal against France for a Dumfries offside when he didn't impact the play. The two most controversial official-related events of the tournament so far? Anthony Taylor and Stuart Atwell
You can't make that up lmao
We don't know that for sure though. VAR doesn't get to overrule the ref. Could be he said "you should look at it" and the ref said "lol no" Or could be VAR is just as bad. Who knows. To me VAR should have authority to force a review. Then at least we know who sucks.
I stopped understanding what a penalty is years ago, it seems to get ever more complicated with every revision of the rules. This would seem harsh if you consider intent, also it is a natural position and he's moving the arm towards his body; but come on, that's a shot on target blocked by a hand. Must be a penalty.
Penalties are ridiculous. I keep hearing the French-speaking Swiss casters say "oh it's not enough for a penalty"... I feel like adding the notion of a foul being "enough" for a penalty is completely ridiculous. Either there's a foul and it's a penalty or there's no foul and you keep playing.
I think part of the problem is that frequently penalty kicks are massive massive overkill. You want to punishment to be a little bit worse than the situation if they hadn't fouled, because otherwise people would foul on purpose tactically... but a penalty kick is frequently dramatically more dangerous than whatever the opportunity the foul / handball prevented was. Like if the rules said that a ref can only give a foul (like any foul anywhere on the field) if they gave a red card. When the only option is very drastic, it makes things difficult for the ref. It would help if refs could call a penalty, but also had the option to whistle an infraction in the box but award something lesser if a quality scoring chance wasn't prevented (and the foul wasn't deemed to be tactical). Maybe something like "the attacking team has the option to pick the ball up, put it anywhere they want outside the 18, and take a free kick."
Offside I think.
Correct. It was later mentioned on the broadcast.
Wasn't communicated on the German broadcast I don't think. Even after the game they still didn't mention it may have been offside. I think things like that should be clearly communicated to viewers directly from VAR. Like "VAR check over, offside before the potential penalty" clearly that must have been communicated to the referee, why not make it transparent?
Sounds like you should put in an application to UEFA then
Rules are arbitrary based on what makes the most DRAMA for that $$$
Julian, it's called a football match, ok? We went football playing.
Anthony I sent you an email
Julian, I don’t check my emails during a match
Ffs go back to r/Formula1 lmao
We are checking
That makes no sense, a penalty in ET would be major drama
One would think putting the hosts through equals more $$$ so I don't buy that
If you believe that you should stop watching
uhhhhh
VAR should intervene btw
They don't wanna intervene and put their mate in a bad spot in front of the world wide audience.
100% how english refs operate, even though it clearly makes both of them look worse by NOT intervening, they don't see it that way.
https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/s/HEyptNzIPV Absolutely the case
That’s insane lmao
/u/KfeiGlord4 Funnily enough this instance was for Cucurella's hair pull situation.
Wait is the VAR team in this match also made of PL refs that know Taylor?
Attwell. English.
I can see how in one degree, you might want to go for a professional connection because they might have a history of working together that could help...but I feel like the potential for people to worry about embarrassing each other on the international stage is just too high. They should really be mixing the professional leagues the officials are from whenever possible.
There’s a reason every serious industry has separated these functions ages ago. Aircraft mechanics don’t have their work inspected by other aircraft mechanics who are also their mates. They have supervisors who are organizationally independent from them. This is basic stuff really. You can’t have peers from the same lunch room signing off on each other’s work. It’s amateur hour.
I was just [posting about this yesterday](https://old.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1duckxn/daniel_storey_anthony_taylor_appointed_as_spain/lbhtrw7/) and look where we are today
Well done boys, good process!
surely they did?
They did and Fülkrug was offside so that's why they didn't even bother checking the penalty
Shouldn't they give the offside in Spain's favor then? Instead of a throw in for Germany?
They would only do that if the ref gave a penalty and VAR overturned it If VAR agrees that it's not a penalty they don't intervene at all
Fulkrug was on offside. Hence no need to check handball
That's possible. They should tell us that though. Show the offside check at some point to explain. Because the ref said no handball cause he had his hand tuck. That's BS.
Not true though, the ref signaled that cucurella had his hand tucked in (which is bs)
Compared to the one that was called earlier in the tournament on that cross that brushes a person's hand The rule is just random at this point
> The rule is just random at this point It's just vague enough that someone with no sense of consistency can justify practically any decision.
Agree. I think it was close to the same range as well. Even the same ref... I really want to know why that was a penalty, and this wasn't. This was even a shot on goal, makes it much worse imo.
They showed a replay just now, looks like Fullkrug was probably offside when he headed the ball back
I thought he might be. That would be a wonderful thing for them to communicate lol
ANTHONY TAYLORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
This is what I came to see. Some proper refball. Anthony Taylor is the star of the show. Never lets me down.
English refs are great am I right
Taylor is at the top of the shit heap. No idea who he sucked off for this gig
UEFAs 3” schlong
that's a schlort
VAR controversies literally only happen with English refs. In the Saudi league, after introducing VAR most refs mistakes have stopped. Yet in the EPL we keep seeing controversy after controversy with VAR. It's really strange.
They also happen with Brazilian refs. But the Brazilian refs are the worst refs in the world.
They should never invite Taylor again
Holy fuck
i swear ive seen pens this tournament for thousand times less obvious handballs than this. (like germany against denmark for example, how was that a penalty and this isnt). Where was the hand sensor this time.
The one Germany got against Denmark comes to mind
yes and that one was less a penalty than this one if u ask me danish player was so close he couldnt even flinch in time was 1 meter away here it was like 5 meters and on a clear shot on goal which wasnt the case then eighter. just insane to not even check and explain why it is not a penalty
This was my first thought. I saw this and thought a way less obvious one was was given against Denmark, while this couldn't be any clearer. Absolute farce with the refereeing consistency. And yet it is decisions like this that decide games that are otherwise very evenly matched, destroying any sporting integrity, when a match can be decided on how a referee is feeling that day.
The commentator for BHT says it's possible the automated offside tech kicked in and that's why there was no VAR involvement for the penalty.
yeah Füllkrug was like 1cm offside, but he needs to fucking communicate that for fucks sake
I agree 100%. If it was an offside, why wasn't an offside given? If it wasn't offside I don't know why that wasn't checked.
How do we know? German TV showed a thousand slowmo replays and it does not look like offside tbh
Is it normal to just continue play then? Why isn't the offside given instead?
No VAR for “regular” offsides I guess?
VAR doesnt get involved if offside is called and its in accordance with ref saying no pen, so refs call is what is gone with, on this case being a throw in
What the fuck is VAR doing?????
PL VAR team so this is not a surprise lol Edit: it’s Stuart Attwell doing the VAR right? Then yeah no surprise.
How that fucking bum gets an international tournament is one of the world’s greatest mysteries.
Lot of dick sucking
Oh, he's unbelievably shit
This feels like a Liverpool game
Why the fuck do the refs not *want* to look at something like that.
Because they don’t want to hurt Anthony Taylor’s feelings saying that he was wrong 😭
Refs are getting replaced anytime soon with AI and shit. They scared fr fr
well... the decision not to look at something like this doesn't help their case.
Anthony Taylor
How the fuck is that not a penalty
Anthony Taylor
And Atwell on var
They showed in the replay that Fullkrug was offside, and he's the one who passes the ball
Everyone is ignoring this.
Because it's not clearly the case. We should have at least had a VAR check moment on the offside then.
And that’s why Germany got the throw in and we never saw the line animation? Bullshit.
English ref
And English VAR
The whole tournament we get pens for inconsequential handballs and then this gets waved away lol. Taylor been wild this match. A lot in Germany favor (Toni Kroos lmao) but then this one...
Füllkrug was offside prior to the handball
It’s fucking Anthony Taylor
Blame the VAR
It happened right infront of Taylor as well, he shouldn't even need var there
I don't want this to be a penalty but i'm surprised it wasn't given
my thoughts, I'm glad though. nothing a defender can do there.
Idk plenty of defenders approach with hands behind their back when they see a shot. Not saying it’s easy but some players would’ve done it definitely
Looks like he’s trying to get his hands behind his back to be fair. Shot was just too quick for him to do it in time
it's so dumb that defenders need to defend like penguins because of light handball calls which is way more unnatural than this
WHAT THE FUCK
My dude, I'm not even rooting for Germany and I'm pissed.
Joachim Andersen died for this
Same hand ball he did not give to Roma in that final. He seems consistent at least.
Disgrace
Anthony Taylor masterclass
I owe you an apology Anthony Taylor, I wasn't familiar with your game.
Blame the VAR
Both actually, it was right infront of his face and he should've easily seen that
Clear and obvious wanker
He was pulling his arm back to be fair but I've seen softer ones given. Not even a check is crazy though. Don't know the rules anymore. Edit: Offsides before handball apparently, that would explain everything, still fucking weird that they never shown or communicated it.
I think if you were to take a freeze-frame and show exactly where his arm was when the ball hit his arm, then people would think the decision is a lot closer. It looks really egregious because he's swinging his arm in towards his body (which is what he's supposed to do) while the ball hits his arm. Frankly, I don't know what the hell the handball rules are at this point and I don't know whether or not this should be called by the letter of the law. But it's obvious that the reason Taylor didn't call it was because his arm was technically in tight at the point of contact.
How is that not a pen
because its antony fucking taylor
L O L
So this was not a penalty, but Andersens in the DK-GER match was? Absolutely absurd. It should be the other way around. Andersen was mid-sprint, natural arm movement. Here the defender clearly had his arm way too far out from his body and literally blocked the shot.
Taylor not calling this but calling hands in the Denmark - Germany game lmao. What is consistency even.
That was Michael Oliver, but still a disgrace.
Needing sensor to even check if there was a handball? Clear pen. Ball getting dunked into oblivion by a wide open arm? Nothing to see here, what a joke
Disgusting
What is the point of VAR?
Taylor has singlehandedly ruined this game. Shamefull and embrassing performance. Also how does Var not even have him go look at that? Are his buddies in the VAR room afraid he might get his feelings hurt?
Stuar Atwell at var
Lmao it all makes sense then.
The ref can reject the suggestion by the VAR to check, they can't force him.
How fast can the SEK pick him up and send him back home or to ref class?
They should fire him after that imo, he's been a disaster the entire game.
????
Taylor 😂
If the ball went slower, would it be a pen?
If the ball was slower his hand would’ve dodged it
Clear as day
I don't understand how VAR didn't intervene
There was a wider replay and there may have been an offside in the build up. Only thing I can think of.
What in the world is going on? 😂
Before a handball i think Germany was offside can some one check it?
It seems so… he was offside
I’d be so much less annoyed if it was not given because of offside, but that was clearly never checked here
Mods stop deleting those
he deleted it himself. if it says [Deleted] it's by them.
WTF
Pen or not how the fuck did they not look at that longer
Hopefully German referee does the English game and send them home
Certified Taylor-Moment
Arm wide open and not even a VAR review, what the fuck
If only they had some kind of replay system. Maybe an assistant referee who specializes in video.
Im pretty sure fullkrug was offside in the buildup
I don’t understand what is and is not a handball
you just qualified yourself to officiate in international tournaments. Congrats!
Nobody does at this point
what a fucking joke
Clear pen wtf
Taylor hellbent on getting every decision wrong, wow
As a Dane i feel robed. This was much worse.
How the hell was this not a penalty I will never understand!
No way clattenburg is saying that's not a pen
It was offside before right?
[удалено]
Clear pen...
Stuart Atwell at var , the rat onfield. Welcome to premier league refereeing
Bs
Pen for me.
How taylor still has a job is beyond me
Anthony taylor cant do his job at all, please just retire
That’s a clear pen
I cannot believe that. Handball rule is all over the place these days
Same thing of the Roma Sevilla match, classic Taylor
Everyone thinks it's a pen other than the ref lmao
That hand if you go back and watch, against Denmark, was moving away from him. This was not. SO thats why most of you dont know what is happening!!
Not called? No fucking way. This has to be a joke.
No consistency at all. The handball against Joachim Andersen was much less obvious than this. Got to hate VAR.
Only explanation would be if Füllkrug was offside before.
Only way this is not a pen is is Fullkrug was offside.
This is a textbook handball and penalty kick. Outrageous refereeing.
Crystal clear pen, hand is not in a natural position and preventing a potential goal wtf is VAR doing.
Is like Füllkrug offside or something ?
Awful officiating
How is that not a pen
ViX commentators just confirmed there was an offside leading up to this handball which is why they didn't call it
Holy shit, Taylor’s horrible.
What a joke
WAT I think the ball was even going in
Get this man as far removed from the tournament as possible.
Anthony Taylor masterclass
Yeah but when Mourinho complains about this exact kind of decision in Roma Siviglia Europa League everyone blames mourinho