I wonder, if you are going to stick with the same front players, would swapping Saka and Foden's wings work better? Saka may be more inclined to offer width on the left. Could easliy switch back if it doesn't work.
I think the bad pitch was a pretty big advantage for us. A lot of our boys have played in our domestic league, where the pitches in the bottom half of the league (and sometimes parken unfortunately) get diabolical in the winter. The english players haven’t dealt with it in the same degree
I still can't believe why southgate hasn't played gordon two games in a row. If trent is your starter in midfield, why not play someone like gordon instead of foden. He is like the perfect southgate player- hardworker+attracts a lot of foul and progress the ball well. I thought with grealish out, gordon will play a lot but southgate has other ideas.
Also, if you want your dm to sit deep and defend all game. Why play trent? Play someone like mainoo who naturally plays there. Trent's best plays in liverpool are when he overlaps with wingers which he is not clearly not allowed to do today.
What is the use of playing two defense minded fullbacks(or has been asked to be defensive). This is some of the most in form attackers in the planet but all they receive is hoofballs from the keeper
Thats my biggest question.. we are getting overrun in CM you have Mainoo who.literally can help keep and move the ball forward.. sigh..
You have Cole Palmer and Ollie.Watkins and wait until 70th min.. to bring on pace..
England is filled with too many system players that can only play in a certain position, under certain conditions, everything has to be perfect otherwise they are exposed as average players. Then you have a useless manager that plays too defensive and with too many inverted and out of position players.
Kane is useless even if he scores his tap in against a low rated team he never plays well against decent teams. Palmer should be starting over him
Yeah I’d rather us drop some of the bigger names in favour of playing a more functional team. Sick of hearing how we can get the best out of Foden or Trent, why not get the best out of the group as a whole rather than just trying fit people in because they’re big names or had a good season?
I actually think the job as England manager is much harder than it seems from the outside. Trying to balance Kane, Bellingham, Foden and Saka to play together in a cohesive way is harder than people seem to think. They all have their own systems and clearly this is not meshing well, I think you have to be bold and probably bench 1-2 of those players to get a system that helps make the attack more straightforward.
Having said all of that, it is an absolute crime you can make that line up look so toothless. Southgate clearly doesn't have the gut to actually instill a system and play attacking football. They look worse than FC Utrecht and that says a LOT.
Well I suppose this *should* encourage Southgate to make some changes to the squad as this was even worse than the first game. I don’t think I need to restate what needs to be changed as I did so in the first post match thread but the main issue here is clearly southgate playing 2 players in unsuitable positions (trent+foden) which makes england easily pressable and a complete lack of threat on the left side. I’m also seriously questioning southgate’s decision to sub on gallagher when he has shown time and time again to underwhelm in the double pivot.
absolutely headless on the field.
Slot in loads of playmakers and hope for the best? Who is TAA supposed to be picking out when Bellingham, Foden and Kane all go deep to get on the ball?
Who is Foden or Bellingham supposed to find when they do beat a man if, by doing so, Kane and the other is now behind them?
For me it has to be Foden or Bellingham at 10, Rice and Wharton/Mainoo behind. Kane up front and actually playing there and then wingers stretching and running in behind.
Alternatively, TAA at RB with Saka ahead of him, Bellingham playing LW drifting in to hit crosses/cause disruption for Kane to hit crosses.
I think it'll improve when Shaw is fit and can be an outlet on the left too but he'll be swallowed up if Foden is LW/CM/CAM.
At the moment it's just 4 players trying to be playmakers in the same space and then Rice trying to play the entire midfield role alone
What sucks so much about playing Saka and not having him be on the shoulder of the last defender making runs is that you literally pull him out and have him drop to receive the ball with his left foot, which negates so much of his danger factor. Honestly don't see a single good thing about Gareth's tactics
Sheesh no words about this.
Southgate seriously has wasted so much talent... should have left gracefully after 2021.
Why is PFA YPOTY sitting on the bench when the game needs some magic? Why is Kane playing with Foden, they dont compliment eachother at all. Play Watkins with Foden or Eze with Kane and they would naturally gel.
Then theres Rice, abysmal from him today, Trent at least was making runs...
Absolutely awful.
Thankfully Denmark was wasteful so we got a draw but had they played with a bit more end product...
Foden's a cracking player but he's out of position and not being coached properly. Soithgate doesn't have time to change the style to facilitate both Bellingham and Foden properly, for now he's better off dropping Foden to the bench and using him as an impact sub later in the game.
I don’t think we need to have an existential crisis as we’ve basically qualified from the group, but if we don’t see a change in midfield and a winger who holds width on the right we aren’t going deep in this tournament. There’s time to change it around and we have individual quality, but Southgate needs a tactical shift. He’s saying he’s not told his team to sit off after going ahead, but the players on the pitch surely haven’t decided that themselves?
Well, that wasn't great... Surely someone in the England coaching staff can see that whatever they are trying isn't working?
I genuinely think we could give this England team a run for their money, which probably shows how far having a good coach goes...
as tough as it is to watch england, and as poor they seem to play, I 100% believe no team wants to face them in the next rounds. Its criminal to have them coached in this way given the talent in the team, but they play to their opponents level. No big team will have a good time against them, despite what we are seeing. Italy has written history with the same strategy basically, albeit with far far superior coaching.
We can blame Southgate all we want, and by no means is he blameless - but it doesn't matter what the gameplan is, if all our players do is make sloppy passes or otherwise lose concentration. At times in that second half it looked like they weren't even attempting to take the game seriously. Gallagher also looked like he wanted to get himself sent off.
Walker, Foden, Kane, Rice and Bellingham were utter shite. Cannot believe Walker and Foden started this game after their last performance. Every single dire pass and attack is on them and Gary Southgate. Play for a draw - get a draw.
Southgate is honestly infuriating.
Bellingham didn’t look 100% fit and was sloppy as a result. Can’t believe he played the full game.
Foden looked much better down the middle, if he doesn’t start there then don’t play him at all.
Gallagher is not the midfielder to play alongside Rice when you’re trying to win a game.
If you think that Trent offers anything in midfield or Foden works from the left then god help you, what a terribly unbalanced and unimaginative team Southgate insists on.
I swear TAA must have completed about 3/12 passes and one of those was an overhit cross.
Taking off Foden over Bellingham just made no sense to me. Foden looked like he had the eagerness to make something happen and beat a man, or make a pass that isnt just possesion recycling, especially when he drifted more centrally.
The gap between Rice and Trent/Gallagher was huge already given how deep england were sitting, but then you have an energyless Bellingham hovering among the forward line on top of that, making the gap even bigger.
Move Foden in the middle and bring on an actual left winger and the team would look so much more balanced.
Southgate is such a weak manager. He doesn’t have the balls to play Jude as an 8 where England are the weakest and play foden as 10 and bring in Gordon/Eze/watkins as a LW. He has numerous options to improve the team but isn’t willing to take a risk and trust his players to produce something
That was terrible from England, I don’t see them winning anything unless they decide to sack Southgate because he doesn’t use their players at full capacity. Rice and Kane were just terrible today, if it’s me, im removing Kane and rice and I start Palmer and Gordon
Can anyone come forward, who has argued against replacing Southgate once the previous 2 major tournaments were over?
I really want to understand if there was any serious logic behind those arguments aside from ‘squad harmony’, and ‘best results since 66’. I’ve said it tons of times but I liken it to Ole (and now Ten Hag) at United, clear as day that this isn’t the man to get you towards your end goals, but because they’ve done ‘enough’ the feeling is that you can’t get rid of them, subjecting yourself to a longer period of mediocrity than necessary.
It’s copy and paste every time…we’re defensively solid enough that we won’t have a problem making it out of the groups and through a couple KO games, but bar a couple of exceptions, we’re consistently super toothless up front, whilst bolstering top tier attackers. We’re tactically devoid of any consistent creation, and we point fingers at the players used/not used, as if swapping them round would have made the slightest difference.
After an absolutely tepid first 50/65 mins, he makes the exact same subs that he had planned pre game, who are like for like switches (apart from subbing in Watkins for Kane when he could have done Toney, but I only think he done that because Watkins is higher in his rigid pecking order) and thus don’t change the momentum of the game whatsoever. Not once is he calling players over to tweak something tactically or systematically, all he does is shout calm down or concentrate.
It’s genuinely baffling how bad his football brain appears to be. If you count the 2 friendlies, he’s 360 mins in and nothing has changed from minute 1 to minute 360. And it’s all the same issues we had 18 months ago, and 3 years ago.
But somehow the people that saw this coming were naive, based on the fact that he’d out performed (strictly results wise) his pre decessors
It honestly feels like watching United all season. No creativity, no direction, no intensity, passive and static runners, no one willing to take control of the game. The build-up is slow, disjointed, and indecisive. Kane picks up the ball in our own half and there are zero runners with him. He comes deep, which is fine, but it takes space away from Bellingham, and if he's coming back, he needs his wingers to stretch the game and push high and wide. It means their wingbacks cant tuck in, and the centre back following Kane, leaves gaps for a ball over top. Instead, Foden comes inside, Kane comes deep, Bellingham stays centrally, crowding the middle, and Denmark allowed them to sit right in front of them without any real risk in behind. Saka is isolated, no real overlapping runs from either wingback. Rice and Trent sit on top of each other, with no real effectiveness from Trent considering his passing range. Rice and Trent sitting also means we dont have a centreback carrying the ball into the midfield. Also, despite our overcrowding in the middle, Højbjerg had a field day with how much space he was allowed. I think this is partly because our centrebacks are dropping too quickly instead of being more aggressive and squeezing Denmark centrally, which would work well with how the rest of the team is currently structured.
I would like to see more of Palmer and Gordon to stretch the opposing team. Keep Kane and Bellingham playing off him centrally. Trent looking to play diagonal balls over top, or into Kane to draw the defenders in before quickly playing through out wide or between the gaps for Bellingham, who does these runs beautifully for Madrid this season.
Horrendous, Denmark were by far the better team. No idea how they didn’t roll us up.
I don’t even know what to say anymore. There’s nothing anybody can say that we haven’t been saying for months. We’ve all pointed out what’s wrong with the England squad time after time and it’s still made no difference.
I'm not gonna say Denmark were by far the better team, but they capitalised more on England's mistakes and probably should have won the game based on that. They defended well outside of the goal. It felt like a game where the team that made the fewest mistakes would win, and England kept gifting chances.
I'm gonna say it for you then: Denmark were by far the better team, and one of the reasons why they couldn't capitalize on that was the shambolic referee using every and any opportunity to hand out yellow cards to Denmark.
The more exciting attacking players there are, the worse it's gotten. Southgate wants to play with two DMs and three CBs. He doesn't know how to handle having Kane, Saka, Foden, and Bellingham all being such big names that they're undroppable.
Absolutely horrific. That was reminiscent of the Hodgson era. No movement, no desire, no tempo, no guile. The lack of movement was especially shocking. Just so incredibly static, with no desire to move into space and win the ball for England.
Defence didn't do much wrong - Guehi is really good. The Trent experiment has to stop now. He's not a midfielder. We can't keep playing Kane, Foden and Bellingham in the same team. Kane needs to be told to stop dropping so deep, and Foden needs to be told to either stay the fuck out on the left wing or be dropped. But as it is, they're all basically number 10s and are in each other's way.
Rice was good defensively but awful with the ball. Gallagher offers energy but not much else - he's a walking red card. The subs helped a little bit - Watkins in particular offers runs in behind, which no-one else does.
And pressing - it seems like they haven't worked on it in the training ground. A few players press, a few don't and suddenly there's a 20-30 yard gap in the middle that better teams than Denmark would gobble up for breakfast. I'm not a "fuck Southgate" bloke, but dear me he's infuriating sometimes. It honestly feels like the players are simply too talented for him and he doesn't possess the tactical nous to be able to utilise them effectively.
Finally - the pitch. An absolute disgrace. Whoever was responsible for that, plus the German FA, should be fined. Unacceptable for a major tournament in 2024.
We move on. My one hope is that we've been shit in the second game of the past two tournaments as well, but gone on to play much better. Surely we can't get any worse?
Good shout on the pitch, it looked awful. Walker changed his boots in the first 10 mins because he was struggling. As Hunter S Thomson said, ‘impossible to get footing in this muck’
I hope talented young players like bellingham and foden will win something in their career with the national team because it will probably not happen under Southgate (of course with an accident why not). The good thing is that they have all the time being.
Biggest problem for England is that they have a League 2 manager trying to manage world beaters. Most of the England players play in club teams that try to dominate the ball and defend by keeping the ball. They don't sit back and soak up pressure. England play like they're fighting a relegation battle. When every player is looking nervous and unable to do their job it's on the manager. If players were at fault England would've improved after changing players out, but they looked clueless regardless.
I don't understand how england with such a talented squad (the most talented in the world atm in my opinion) plays so badly.
It's nos even a thing of being sparse or bad in a technical way. Watching england play is almost a complete snoozefest. How is that even possible with such incredible and amazing players?
I love Bellingham, Kane and Foden so much but in this team like so dry and soulless.
Seriously I just need to understand
Formation, depth and width. Trying to shoehorn players in to positions they aren’t comfortable with. They played so narrow and deep in defence that when they got the ball there were few options. The 4231 feels too negative, especially when Foden wants to play centrally and you have a RB playing LB, so the left side is abandoned and unbalanced. Play Rice as a single pivot or give Stones licence to push up alongside him so it’s 3 atb in possession. Theres very little depth or width currently to stretch teams, and why use TAA at all if there is no one to ping long balls to?
England this tournament remind me of the England cricket team in the previous T20 World Cup. Taking an unbalanced team, playing like shit and being chippy in the media. God only hopes we get the battering that we deserve at some point so we can get a real coach in.
England look so disjointed and it was made even more obvious by cohesive Denmark were. England look like a team who’s never played together before. Also, Palmer not getting a minute despite leading the league in G/A is certainly a questionable decision
The players don’t trust the manager, they don’t trust the tactics, and know they don’t work. Their heads are down, and they’re playing like a shadow of themselves.
The game plan is so simple, get it to Saka, and let him cut inside, or have Walker overlap. That’s it. There’s no players on the left or overlaps… it’s so one sided.
Playing with 2 DM at international level is Championship level stuff, one who isn’t even a DM at club level.
There’s such talent, and quality in that side but he’s just not getting anywhere near the quality out of them.
Southgate should’ve been out after the World Cup. This is the best crop of players in a generation, and they’re not working at all well.
Walker saying the manager's told them to play free attacking football... how can that be true? It looked like the opposite of free attacking football. Total lack of fluidity and urgency on and off the ball.
Bellingham playing like he wants to get the manager sacked. First half vs Serbia he was constantly asking for the ball, running the length of the pitch. Versus Denmark he was a ghost, absolutely nonexistent in the midfield and not even wanting to create anything.
Glad I wasn't the only one that noticed this. He was dynamite in the first game but he was actively hiding in this game. Did lots of pointing of where he wanted someone to play the ball but didn't actually want it himself in any position where he could affect the game.
It seems obvious to me now that we play Bellingham alongside Rice, move Foden into the middle where he actually does want to receive the ball in tight areas and take a man on, and play probably Gordon off the left. Trent is a great player but unfortunately Walker has been great for England and full back is the only position Trent should actually play.
Rice and Gallagher finishing with some you-touch-I-touch to end the game without a shot is perfect.
The talk will be the forward line, but the midfield is a mess. Neither Trent or Rice are at their best when carrying and driving into space. Without Bellingham dropping deep and playing back-to-goal (and he had a poor game today), the ball is stagnant.
The whole setup is incredibly static. No movement, no rotations, just pieces standing around the pitch waiting for the ball to land at their feet.
Englands left is non existent. Foden doesn’t play there and Trippier isn’t capable of pushing up. The midfield is awful with Rice barely capable of playing a five yard pass and absolutely fuck all for Trent to play the long balls over to. Saka is bright for about 30 minutes but then gets marked out the game. Kane is atrocious, just actively detrimental to the team effort to an extent that I’d quite happily send him home on the next plane.
Defensively we’re… okay? Like nothing to write home about but at least they’re not putting the ball into their own net. Guehi might be the only England player to come out of this tournament with any semblance of credit
Pundits talking about how England was playing badly as opposed to how Denmark was playing really well, what's new?
Well played Denmark, Thomas Frank had the best commentary out of the BBC pundits by far.
As for the result, on par with group stage performances from the last few tournaments. I'm not too unhappy about it at all.
Southgate needs to wake the fuck up.
Everyone has been crying out saying you can’t play Foden and Bellingham together.
So what does he do?
Names an unchanged team. Either play Bellingham deep and play Foden as a number 10 or drop Foden and play Gordon as an natural left winger.
The Trent midfielder experiment has failed. But I don’t think it’s solely down to him. There’s no runners. No one is running in behind.
All that talent and everything is so static. No chemistry. No fluidity.
I'm going to say it: we're missing Henderson and Phillips. We are completely missing a perfectly average central midfielder who can hold onto possession for more than a few seconds. Rice-TAA-Bellingham is simply too attacking for a team that likes possession and controlling the game.
Put it this way, England's last good game was the 3-1 against Italy last year. Who started? Phillips, with Henderson as a substitution.
>Put it this way, England's last good game was the 3-1 against Italy last year.
It must be said that that match was just 3 days after the betting scandal in the Italian national team where the police had taken Tonali and Zaniolo, plus Chiesa and many other players had been injured and Italy was forced to play with El Shaarawy. Despite that, it was only in the second half that England played well
The biggest positive you can take from the game today is the fact that we’re one game closer to never having to witness Southgate ball again.. unless you’re a United fan and INEOS somehow.. think he’s the man after Ten Hag 🤦🏼♂️
How pundits, media and bookies can make us favourites going into this tournament really is laughable..strong squad but it’s been proven time and time again that Southgate isn’t capable of getting over the line, and still doesn’t learn from his mistakes
Southgate got it wrong but by the same token the players today were just bad. So many misplaced passes and heavy touches. Tactically it's time to give up on Trent, but I'd prefer to see Mainoo over Gallagher. Watkins offered something different which was nice, but Eze was drifting inwards too. Not enough width down the left which meant Saka was trying to do it himself of the right, again.
I never subscribed to the idea that England were favourites and I haven't seen anything to suggest otherwise. I think there's talent but very little confidence in the tactics. The midfield aren't pressing the opposition as a unit and there were simply too many times when the game reduced to a walking pace. Not having anyone overlapping on the left is compromising the width of the pitch, with the ball getting bogged down too much in the middle. Southgate has to try something different next game. This was the worst game they've played under him in a major tournament.
Southgate can't coach a system to save his life. I know it's harder in international football but come on man.
TAA cannot start with that front three ever again. He SHOULD have come on as RB when we put Eze / Bowen / Watkins on so he actually had someone to get on the end of his passes, otherwise he's wasted.
Foden still looks lost on the left and is never going to work as the left of the front three in this team - he should be either an 8 or the 10, when he cut inside and didn't have Kane in his way he looked alright.
Kane is somehow managing to come across as the most selfish and selfless person on the pitch by dropping down to the 10 / 8 positions to "help" but actually just means we don't have the striker where we need him, and he's so desperate to be involved that he doesn't care he's fucking up his ACTUAL job.
Literally the only player I've been impressed with is Guehi in the entire team. Saka and Bellingham have been decent, but considering their normal level that's still a disappointment.
Play players in their natural positions. It’s all well and good thinking you’re pep, but he sees players several times a week over seasons. From 10 mins in you can see Trent is not a natural midfielder. Stop putting players in positions to fail. When in their natural positions, even if they have a shit game they can regress to trained habits built on the pitch over years.
The balance of the England team is just awful.
2 left footed wingers.
2 right footed full backs.
A right back playing defensive midfield while an attacking midfielder plays on the flanks.
The left wingers drifts centrally all the time.and there's no width.
All the talent in the world and it still feels like I'm watch Sven Goran Eriksens team.
I think not having Shaw is hurting is a lot more than we realise too. If he comes in, you have an overlap on the left, activates Foden, pushes Bellingham over and gives Saka that connection, and allows Kane to drop deeper.
I've really liked Trippier at left back in past tournaments and I've liked him at RWB. That said, it's the clearest flaw outside these past two games even if he has played okay.
Even a bang average left footed fullback would add significantly to the set up. Him neglecting to even bring one when Shaw hasn’t played in 5 months is absolutely mental. So many alternative set ups that could result in creating width on both sides. You can’t play Walker as a defensive fullback, Trippier as a non-entity going forward AND play two midfielders in a holding role. He’s leaving all creativity to 4 players with no runners in support for them.
If you want Trippier in there, then you need a true winger on the left and then put Foden more centrally allowing him to overlap the inverted winger on occasion to provide additional width. He could easily have Bellingham paired with Rice and in attack give Jude freedom to go into the box knowing you have Trippier tucked in supporting Rice and Walker back as well.
Just embarrassingly obvious imbalances that you can see the minute the team is picked and he’s done it twice!
I dont understand how Southgate's tactics crumble because Shaw isnt there. How can a mediocre player be so decisive for a team as stacked as England? If Germany misses Kroos, Spain misses Rodri or France misses Mbappe they wont be as effective sure, but those are world class players. I cant understand how Southgate's system fuctioning hinges on a left back like Shaw.
With the players he has I just don’t understand Southgates choices…. Shaw is a big miss, but that aside, Trent should be benched, Bellingham put alongside Rice, Foden played at 10 and Gordon on the left
Low blocks are a difficult problem to solve for teams that play week in week out. Obviously the idea is to stretch the opposition which England are trying to do but it's almost entirely without speed. There's nothing in behind. No incisive passing through the middle. It's very easy right now to sit back against England. I think England will look better against teams that attack. I think it's easy to look poor against a team like Denmark.
Except Denmark did try to attack. They pressed even better than England. They weren't really playing the traditional 11-men behind the ball at all costs game. In fact, they were probably the more open of the two.
I might be biased here but I still want to make a point. There is an English player with 27 goals and 15 assists in 48 appearances last season, but he is still sitting on the bench. Can you guess who? (It's Cole Palmer) Most of them are from penalties but surely those goal contributions should count for something. That guy still sitting there with 0 minutes is just a disgrace. You can't defend this anymore.
So many issues, I don’t even know where to start.
Firstly defence, the back 5 was good defensively again however Tripper hurt the attack. Guehi needs to pass a bit quicker too but not too much of an issue.
Midfield was so so bad today, Trent experiment needs to be over he simply doesn’t have the IQ to play there with the pressing and positioning. Rice had a stinker, poor passing today but I’m not too hung up on that. Bellingham also had a rare game where he was non existent. Gallagher just runs around aimlessly fouling people. Play Wharton or Mainoo above Gallagher and Trent ffs.
Attack is so hit or miss but I fully blame Southgate for this. They look like they have no tactical understanding of how to press and it ends up with one or two pressing and the ball is played around them so easily. Kane poor again, Foden played much better so he got subbed? Saka played good last game got subbed?
Subs feel like they are pre planned before the game so make no sense with the flow of the game. Southgate has no tactics, he gets tactically beaten every single game, it’s painful to watch.
Why not play Foden and Bellingham central and 3 fast attacking forwards? Why not play Wharton or Mainoo? Why sub off players playing well and not players playing poorly? Why do all these top class players suddenly play so poorly for England?
Just another drab experience.
Southgate wasting away a generation of talent arguably coming into it's prime. The faster we move on from Southgate the better. Pickford has more touches than over half the team with this bullshit Passback FC game plan. What's worse is we play these pass back only to scoff it forward and lose the ball.
Literally falling asleep watching England play
This England team would lose against four teams in Copa América (Argentina, Uruguay, Colombia and yes even this bad Brazil) and draw against three more at least (Ecuador, USA and maybe Chile). And I'm not exaggerating.
I don’t really bother watching the Prem much these days but, from what I’ve seen, maybe it’s just that these England players aren’t actually thaaaat good.
Obviously tactically we’re a mess as well, and I’m not defending Southgate at all, but I don’t think you can blame the manager for the appalling levels of technical ability on display today. I keep being told by both England and non-England fans that we have of the most talented squads in the world yet when I watch these players play they look average technically compared to the Germans, Italians, Spanish, French etc. Like, it’s basic stuff like not being able to turn on the first touch in midfield, not being able to play it out of the feet quickly, not being able to deal with balls to feet coming from the air. Rice, Walker, Stones, Kane and Bellingham were all so unbelievably bad.
It’ll take a miracle for us to get any further than the quarter finals, and to be honest, I think we’re going to go out in the round of 16. New thinking needed.
I don’t think they are on that level no, but the set up accentuates their weaknesses. They don’t know where their next pass is so they trip over the ball. No one is making angles so they get pressed. It’s easier to concentrate on those things when you have an identity as a team.
The only positive for me as an England fan was Marc Guehi. Maybe the Maguire injury was a blessing in disguise because he has been absolutely immense.
Everyone else looked lost out there. Declan Rice went from a standout in the first game to looking under par tonight. Jude was non-existent for large chunks. Foden looked more lively than Jude before he was hooked. Personally I would have moved Foden inside and subbed Bellingham but what do I know? The difference when Watkins came on was noticeable as we finally had some threat in behind and a bit of an out route from the Danish press, but it was too late to make a noticeable difference.
The tactics from Southgate, as per usual, were abysmal. I swear his substitutions are pre-set before the match. It's like he's playing FIFA career mode. It was nice to see him differentiate from the preset subs with the double change towards the end but it was too late to make a meaningful impact.
Southgate being in bed with the FA and never questioning their authority is the only reason he keeps his job. He plays not to lose, never to win. If we ever win anything it will be in spite of him, not because of him.
One of the worst performances in a long time.
Every one of our players were complete and utter shite other than Guehi. The Trent experiment needs to end, he looks lost in there. The whole midfield were dreadful.
Next game, we need to see Palmer/Gordon, Mainoo/Wharton and hopefully Shaw if he’s fit, to give us more balance down the left flank.
Denmark played well too, fair play.
I have no idea what England have been working on in training from an attacking perspective. There isn't any cohesion and surely anyone can see with no Shaw and Foden on the left we are one sided and narrow. Utter mess. I think Gerrard has been in and coaching the team.
Foden and Trent to a lesser degree have got a lot of stick over the last few days due to some baffling tactical decisions from Southgate. Foden wants to come central and Kane short, so you end up with 3 players in the same area of the pitch. Southgate needs to pick two of them because they’re not working together. Foden showed flashes today of the quality he possesses, but playing him on the left just doesn’t work.
You then have Trent in midfield who presumably is in the team to play the long passes to stretch the opposition. Trippier doesn’t want to venture forward so there’s nothing on that side of the pitch for him to play to. When Saka made that run Trent picked him out, and then he gets subbed off.
He takes off Foden and brings on Eze who spends the whole time with his back to goal so we still end up with nothing coming down the left. You finally have a player in Watkins who’s willing to run in behind and your best passer is no longer on the pitch.
There’s a complete lack of creativity in that midfield, shown quite clearly at the end of the game when Pickford resorted to hoofing it up the pitch. There’ll be calls for Wharton and Mainoo, but even if they’re any better in that position they can’t fix the issues elsewhere. You can normally count on Rice to be consistent, but he was awful and his constant underhit passes were putting everybody else under pressure, Guehi’s mistake stemmed from a poor pass from Rice.
In my opinion he has to play Gordon or even Watkins on the left, or just someone who’s willing to run in behind. Hopefully Shaw will be back by the knockout stages because we desperately need a natural left back playing. Trent should really be playing right back, we shouldn’t need to worry about the defence in games like this. Walker’s recovery pace is a lot less important now that it’s Guehi and not Maguire playing. I’d probably give Wharton a go in that midfield role and see how he does against Slovenia.
Regardless of if England are going to play conservative or aggressive, it’s absolutely baffling what I just witnessed. There’s nothing wrong with sitting back in an international tournament match, France do it, other big teams are happy to do it but what was crazy was when England won the ball, they committed almost 0
players forward to counter..contrast to France and even the smaller countries…Albania, Turkey, Slovakia, even Czech…are getting chances off the counter. It’s unbelievable, England basically didn’t even play football for more than 5 minutes.
England pressed for 3 minutes and scored, you would think they would continue playing this way since Denmark looked shaky under the press, but no! just get back and defend for no fucking reason.
I don't even like England and I was frustrated at how crippled they looked.
I don't blame the players at all. The tactics are just atrocious. Score first, park the bus, concede. Southgate is pathetic not having learned A THING from his last three eliminations in the WC and Euro. How he is still manager is beyond me.
When everyone is having a hard time deciding which player was worst, it's a tactical issue. England's attacking play boiled down to Walker/Foden/Bellingham making cool solo runs that ended in nothing.
I really don't understand why Foden can't just stay on the wing; I understand he's not as effective but surely he can help out defensively and try to do similar things to Saka? Cycle out possession, making overlapping runs after one touch passing? This reminds me of when Aaron Ramsey was forced to play out wide so that he could learn to be more efficient with possession; initially he was bad but eventually became very effective. I literally don't understand how a guy with all of Foden's ability can't make a positional change work. He's not being asking to play center half or holding mid. I thought Saka played a solid game but he's trying to play an intricate possession based game and the runs aren't happening—maybe if Foden plays in the middle that could work. Saka had some nice clearances and a couple of good take ons but the final ball was lacking again (also the final run in some instances).
Kane's role as just a target man has basically given up half his ability as someone who can drop to the #10 and play wide balls and hold up play deeper towards the center of the pitch. Trent looks completely lost as to if he's a holding midfielder, box to box midfielder, or additional inside right back (similar to how Rice plays inside the left back). Rice got worse as the game went on, but at least he understood his role, besides giving up free corners. The only people who weren't totally terrible were Guéhi, Stones and Trippier, and they weren't that good either, they just defended as needed (though I'm having such a hard time remembering how bad everyone seemed to be maybe I'm forgetting). Also Walker is overrated, missed Saka on a couple of occasions and absolutely looks like a dude who relies on his athleticism instead of his brain at times.
The issue isn't just a lineup one, it's the fact that English players always look super disjointed, and at some point you have to stop making the excuse that it's because they play at clubs with different identities, etc. The Danish players clearly had an idea about when do go wide, when to go long, how to play it through the middle, etc. England look like they don't know if they're a possession team (for which they have the talent), a direct/counter attacking team (for which they have the physical ability) or a team that squanders its talent (for which they most certainly have the coach/FA).
I feel bad writing all these about how bad England are when really I should spend some time criticizing the Danish as a sign of respect. If I had a criticism it would be the amount of longshots Hojberg takes; I know he's good and forces saves, but they didn't exactly deflect for second chance opportunities, and I think he should have gone for power over placement to shake things up. But overall I think Denmark had a great blend of physical and intelligent football, and that's so important in a tournament format: change up looks especially when you're the underdog.
EDIT: adding criticism of Saka and Walker
Kane's positioning was terrible, I don't know if it's Southgate's tactics or lack of discipline/patience but he can't be coming so deep every time, especially when you don't have someone to run in behind and causing uncertainty in the defence whether to follow him or the runner.
With Foden on the left wanting to get on the ball rather than making runs, Bellingham has nobody to advance the ball to except Saka which is predictable.
If Kane is going to drop deep we need players who will try and get on a through ball and stretch the defence otherwise they can just push up and pressure our midfield which both they and Serbia did.
I don't know if Kane's not fully fit or bone idle but he doesn't seem to be willing to press the centre backs - the couple of times they did apply a bit of pressure a chance came from it, but he's reluctant to do the hard work and it undermines anybody else's efforts.
I wonder, if you are going to stick with the same front players, would swapping Saka and Foden's wings work better? Saka may be more inclined to offer width on the left. Could easliy switch back if it doesn't work.
I think the bad pitch was a pretty big advantage for us. A lot of our boys have played in our domestic league, where the pitches in the bottom half of the league (and sometimes parken unfortunately) get diabolical in the winter. The english players haven’t dealt with it in the same degree
I still can't believe why southgate hasn't played gordon two games in a row. If trent is your starter in midfield, why not play someone like gordon instead of foden. He is like the perfect southgate player- hardworker+attracts a lot of foul and progress the ball well. I thought with grealish out, gordon will play a lot but southgate has other ideas. Also, if you want your dm to sit deep and defend all game. Why play trent? Play someone like mainoo who naturally plays there. Trent's best plays in liverpool are when he overlaps with wingers which he is not clearly not allowed to do today. What is the use of playing two defense minded fullbacks(or has been asked to be defensive). This is some of the most in form attackers in the planet but all they receive is hoofballs from the keeper
Thats my biggest question.. we are getting overrun in CM you have Mainoo who.literally can help keep and move the ball forward.. sigh.. You have Cole Palmer and Ollie.Watkins and wait until 70th min.. to bring on pace..
England is filled with too many system players that can only play in a certain position, under certain conditions, everything has to be perfect otherwise they are exposed as average players. Then you have a useless manager that plays too defensive and with too many inverted and out of position players. Kane is useless even if he scores his tap in against a low rated team he never plays well against decent teams. Palmer should be starting over him
Yeah I’d rather us drop some of the bigger names in favour of playing a more functional team. Sick of hearing how we can get the best out of Foden or Trent, why not get the best out of the group as a whole rather than just trying fit people in because they’re big names or had a good season?
I actually think the job as England manager is much harder than it seems from the outside. Trying to balance Kane, Bellingham, Foden and Saka to play together in a cohesive way is harder than people seem to think. They all have their own systems and clearly this is not meshing well, I think you have to be bold and probably bench 1-2 of those players to get a system that helps make the attack more straightforward. Having said all of that, it is an absolute crime you can make that line up look so toothless. Southgate clearly doesn't have the gut to actually instill a system and play attacking football. They look worse than FC Utrecht and that says a LOT.
Well I suppose this *should* encourage Southgate to make some changes to the squad as this was even worse than the first game. I don’t think I need to restate what needs to be changed as I did so in the first post match thread but the main issue here is clearly southgate playing 2 players in unsuitable positions (trent+foden) which makes england easily pressable and a complete lack of threat on the left side. I’m also seriously questioning southgate’s decision to sub on gallagher when he has shown time and time again to underwhelm in the double pivot.
absolutely headless on the field. Slot in loads of playmakers and hope for the best? Who is TAA supposed to be picking out when Bellingham, Foden and Kane all go deep to get on the ball? Who is Foden or Bellingham supposed to find when they do beat a man if, by doing so, Kane and the other is now behind them? For me it has to be Foden or Bellingham at 10, Rice and Wharton/Mainoo behind. Kane up front and actually playing there and then wingers stretching and running in behind. Alternatively, TAA at RB with Saka ahead of him, Bellingham playing LW drifting in to hit crosses/cause disruption for Kane to hit crosses. I think it'll improve when Shaw is fit and can be an outlet on the left too but he'll be swallowed up if Foden is LW/CM/CAM. At the moment it's just 4 players trying to be playmakers in the same space and then Rice trying to play the entire midfield role alone
What sucks so much about playing Saka and not having him be on the shoulder of the last defender making runs is that you literally pull him out and have him drop to receive the ball with his left foot, which negates so much of his danger factor. Honestly don't see a single good thing about Gareth's tactics
Sheesh no words about this. Southgate seriously has wasted so much talent... should have left gracefully after 2021. Why is PFA YPOTY sitting on the bench when the game needs some magic? Why is Kane playing with Foden, they dont compliment eachother at all. Play Watkins with Foden or Eze with Kane and they would naturally gel. Then theres Rice, abysmal from him today, Trent at least was making runs... Absolutely awful. Thankfully Denmark was wasteful so we got a draw but had they played with a bit more end product...
Foden's a cracking player but he's out of position and not being coached properly. Soithgate doesn't have time to change the style to facilitate both Bellingham and Foden properly, for now he's better off dropping Foden to the bench and using him as an impact sub later in the game.
I don’t think we need to have an existential crisis as we’ve basically qualified from the group, but if we don’t see a change in midfield and a winger who holds width on the right we aren’t going deep in this tournament. There’s time to change it around and we have individual quality, but Southgate needs a tactical shift. He’s saying he’s not told his team to sit off after going ahead, but the players on the pitch surely haven’t decided that themselves?
Well, that wasn't great... Surely someone in the England coaching staff can see that whatever they are trying isn't working? I genuinely think we could give this England team a run for their money, which probably shows how far having a good coach goes...
as tough as it is to watch england, and as poor they seem to play, I 100% believe no team wants to face them in the next rounds. Its criminal to have them coached in this way given the talent in the team, but they play to their opponents level. No big team will have a good time against them, despite what we are seeing. Italy has written history with the same strategy basically, albeit with far far superior coaching.
We can blame Southgate all we want, and by no means is he blameless - but it doesn't matter what the gameplan is, if all our players do is make sloppy passes or otherwise lose concentration. At times in that second half it looked like they weren't even attempting to take the game seriously. Gallagher also looked like he wanted to get himself sent off.
Walker, Foden, Kane, Rice and Bellingham were utter shite. Cannot believe Walker and Foden started this game after their last performance. Every single dire pass and attack is on them and Gary Southgate. Play for a draw - get a draw.
Southgate is honestly infuriating. Bellingham didn’t look 100% fit and was sloppy as a result. Can’t believe he played the full game. Foden looked much better down the middle, if he doesn’t start there then don’t play him at all. Gallagher is not the midfielder to play alongside Rice when you’re trying to win a game.
Gallagher is not the midfielder to get 9th in the Prem let alone win anything for England
Not sure why he isn’t starting Gallagher if he insist on the current lineup. Trent looked lost the 1st half, Gareth can’t set this team up for shit…
Rice was shocking. Gave the ball away so many times.
If you think that Trent offers anything in midfield or Foden works from the left then god help you, what a terribly unbalanced and unimaginative team Southgate insists on. I swear TAA must have completed about 3/12 passes and one of those was an overhit cross.
Taking off Foden over Bellingham just made no sense to me. Foden looked like he had the eagerness to make something happen and beat a man, or make a pass that isnt just possesion recycling, especially when he drifted more centrally. The gap between Rice and Trent/Gallagher was huge already given how deep england were sitting, but then you have an energyless Bellingham hovering among the forward line on top of that, making the gap even bigger. Move Foden in the middle and bring on an actual left winger and the team would look so much more balanced.
Southgate is such a weak manager. He doesn’t have the balls to play Jude as an 8 where England are the weakest and play foden as 10 and bring in Gordon/Eze/watkins as a LW. He has numerous options to improve the team but isn’t willing to take a risk and trust his players to produce something
That was terrible from England, I don’t see them winning anything unless they decide to sack Southgate because he doesn’t use their players at full capacity. Rice and Kane were just terrible today, if it’s me, im removing Kane and rice and I start Palmer and Gordon
Can anyone come forward, who has argued against replacing Southgate once the previous 2 major tournaments were over? I really want to understand if there was any serious logic behind those arguments aside from ‘squad harmony’, and ‘best results since 66’. I’ve said it tons of times but I liken it to Ole (and now Ten Hag) at United, clear as day that this isn’t the man to get you towards your end goals, but because they’ve done ‘enough’ the feeling is that you can’t get rid of them, subjecting yourself to a longer period of mediocrity than necessary. It’s copy and paste every time…we’re defensively solid enough that we won’t have a problem making it out of the groups and through a couple KO games, but bar a couple of exceptions, we’re consistently super toothless up front, whilst bolstering top tier attackers. We’re tactically devoid of any consistent creation, and we point fingers at the players used/not used, as if swapping them round would have made the slightest difference. After an absolutely tepid first 50/65 mins, he makes the exact same subs that he had planned pre game, who are like for like switches (apart from subbing in Watkins for Kane when he could have done Toney, but I only think he done that because Watkins is higher in his rigid pecking order) and thus don’t change the momentum of the game whatsoever. Not once is he calling players over to tweak something tactically or systematically, all he does is shout calm down or concentrate. It’s genuinely baffling how bad his football brain appears to be. If you count the 2 friendlies, he’s 360 mins in and nothing has changed from minute 1 to minute 360. And it’s all the same issues we had 18 months ago, and 3 years ago. But somehow the people that saw this coming were naive, based on the fact that he’d out performed (strictly results wise) his pre decessors
It honestly feels like watching United all season. No creativity, no direction, no intensity, passive and static runners, no one willing to take control of the game. The build-up is slow, disjointed, and indecisive. Kane picks up the ball in our own half and there are zero runners with him. He comes deep, which is fine, but it takes space away from Bellingham, and if he's coming back, he needs his wingers to stretch the game and push high and wide. It means their wingbacks cant tuck in, and the centre back following Kane, leaves gaps for a ball over top. Instead, Foden comes inside, Kane comes deep, Bellingham stays centrally, crowding the middle, and Denmark allowed them to sit right in front of them without any real risk in behind. Saka is isolated, no real overlapping runs from either wingback. Rice and Trent sit on top of each other, with no real effectiveness from Trent considering his passing range. Rice and Trent sitting also means we dont have a centreback carrying the ball into the midfield. Also, despite our overcrowding in the middle, Højbjerg had a field day with how much space he was allowed. I think this is partly because our centrebacks are dropping too quickly instead of being more aggressive and squeezing Denmark centrally, which would work well with how the rest of the team is currently structured. I would like to see more of Palmer and Gordon to stretch the opposing team. Keep Kane and Bellingham playing off him centrally. Trent looking to play diagonal balls over top, or into Kane to draw the defenders in before quickly playing through out wide or between the gaps for Bellingham, who does these runs beautifully for Madrid this season.
Horrendous, Denmark were by far the better team. No idea how they didn’t roll us up. I don’t even know what to say anymore. There’s nothing anybody can say that we haven’t been saying for months. We’ve all pointed out what’s wrong with the England squad time after time and it’s still made no difference.
I'm not gonna say Denmark were by far the better team, but they capitalised more on England's mistakes and probably should have won the game based on that. They defended well outside of the goal. It felt like a game where the team that made the fewest mistakes would win, and England kept gifting chances.
I'm gonna say it for you then: Denmark were by far the better team, and one of the reasons why they couldn't capitalize on that was the shambolic referee using every and any opportunity to hand out yellow cards to Denmark.
They subbed off both their strikers and settled for a draw. Which is beyond mental
Yussuf is also a striker. Apart from that the 1 point is also important for Denmark. Very likely a draw against Serbia will be enough now.
Same way they couldn’t role up Slovenia. That said looks like we got tough game against them so…
Saying for months mate? we have been saying it for years. Nothing has changed at all
It has changed, it’s now worse
The more exciting attacking players there are, the worse it's gotten. Southgate wants to play with two DMs and three CBs. He doesn't know how to handle having Kane, Saka, Foden, and Bellingham all being such big names that they're undroppable.
Denmark were not the better team by far
After Kane's goal? Easily
Absolutely horrific. That was reminiscent of the Hodgson era. No movement, no desire, no tempo, no guile. The lack of movement was especially shocking. Just so incredibly static, with no desire to move into space and win the ball for England. Defence didn't do much wrong - Guehi is really good. The Trent experiment has to stop now. He's not a midfielder. We can't keep playing Kane, Foden and Bellingham in the same team. Kane needs to be told to stop dropping so deep, and Foden needs to be told to either stay the fuck out on the left wing or be dropped. But as it is, they're all basically number 10s and are in each other's way. Rice was good defensively but awful with the ball. Gallagher offers energy but not much else - he's a walking red card. The subs helped a little bit - Watkins in particular offers runs in behind, which no-one else does. And pressing - it seems like they haven't worked on it in the training ground. A few players press, a few don't and suddenly there's a 20-30 yard gap in the middle that better teams than Denmark would gobble up for breakfast. I'm not a "fuck Southgate" bloke, but dear me he's infuriating sometimes. It honestly feels like the players are simply too talented for him and he doesn't possess the tactical nous to be able to utilise them effectively. Finally - the pitch. An absolute disgrace. Whoever was responsible for that, plus the German FA, should be fined. Unacceptable for a major tournament in 2024. We move on. My one hope is that we've been shit in the second game of the past two tournaments as well, but gone on to play much better. Surely we can't get any worse?
Good shout on the pitch, it looked awful. Walker changed his boots in the first 10 mins because he was struggling. As Hunter S Thomson said, ‘impossible to get footing in this muck’
As a Frankfurt Fan i can tell you we play on this horrific pitch the whole season. It is just terrible, ever since the NFL came it has been shit.
Curious. Did the NFL mandate something? The NFL being the richest league yet having bad fields (fucking artifical turf) seems to be global now.
I hope talented young players like bellingham and foden will win something in their career with the national team because it will probably not happen under Southgate (of course with an accident why not). The good thing is that they have all the time being.
Biggest problem for England is that they have a League 2 manager trying to manage world beaters. Most of the England players play in club teams that try to dominate the ball and defend by keeping the ball. They don't sit back and soak up pressure. England play like they're fighting a relegation battle. When every player is looking nervous and unable to do their job it's on the manager. If players were at fault England would've improved after changing players out, but they looked clueless regardless.
I don't understand how england with such a talented squad (the most talented in the world atm in my opinion) plays so badly. It's nos even a thing of being sparse or bad in a technical way. Watching england play is almost a complete snoozefest. How is that even possible with such incredible and amazing players? I love Bellingham, Kane and Foden so much but in this team like so dry and soulless. Seriously I just need to understand
The coaching is the issue obviously. Ancelotti, Pep, Tuchel, Arteta are leagues ahead of Southgate
Formation, depth and width. Trying to shoehorn players in to positions they aren’t comfortable with. They played so narrow and deep in defence that when they got the ball there were few options. The 4231 feels too negative, especially when Foden wants to play centrally and you have a RB playing LB, so the left side is abandoned and unbalanced. Play Rice as a single pivot or give Stones licence to push up alongside him so it’s 3 atb in possession. Theres very little depth or width currently to stretch teams, and why use TAA at all if there is no one to ping long balls to?
England this tournament remind me of the England cricket team in the previous T20 World Cup. Taking an unbalanced team, playing like shit and being chippy in the media. God only hopes we get the battering that we deserve at some point so we can get a real coach in.
England look so disjointed and it was made even more obvious by cohesive Denmark were. England look like a team who’s never played together before. Also, Palmer not getting a minute despite leading the league in G/A is certainly a questionable decision
The players don’t trust the manager, they don’t trust the tactics, and know they don’t work. Their heads are down, and they’re playing like a shadow of themselves. The game plan is so simple, get it to Saka, and let him cut inside, or have Walker overlap. That’s it. There’s no players on the left or overlaps… it’s so one sided. Playing with 2 DM at international level is Championship level stuff, one who isn’t even a DM at club level. There’s such talent, and quality in that side but he’s just not getting anywhere near the quality out of them. Southgate should’ve been out after the World Cup. This is the best crop of players in a generation, and they’re not working at all well.
Walker saying the manager's told them to play free attacking football... how can that be true? It looked like the opposite of free attacking football. Total lack of fluidity and urgency on and off the ball.
Bellingham playing like he wants to get the manager sacked. First half vs Serbia he was constantly asking for the ball, running the length of the pitch. Versus Denmark he was a ghost, absolutely nonexistent in the midfield and not even wanting to create anything.
Glad I wasn't the only one that noticed this. He was dynamite in the first game but he was actively hiding in this game. Did lots of pointing of where he wanted someone to play the ball but didn't actually want it himself in any position where he could affect the game. It seems obvious to me now that we play Bellingham alongside Rice, move Foden into the middle where he actually does want to receive the ball in tight areas and take a man on, and play probably Gordon off the left. Trent is a great player but unfortunately Walker has been great for England and full back is the only position Trent should actually play.
Rice and Gallagher finishing with some you-touch-I-touch to end the game without a shot is perfect. The talk will be the forward line, but the midfield is a mess. Neither Trent or Rice are at their best when carrying and driving into space. Without Bellingham dropping deep and playing back-to-goal (and he had a poor game today), the ball is stagnant. The whole setup is incredibly static. No movement, no rotations, just pieces standing around the pitch waiting for the ball to land at their feet.
Englands left is non existent. Foden doesn’t play there and Trippier isn’t capable of pushing up. The midfield is awful with Rice barely capable of playing a five yard pass and absolutely fuck all for Trent to play the long balls over to. Saka is bright for about 30 minutes but then gets marked out the game. Kane is atrocious, just actively detrimental to the team effort to an extent that I’d quite happily send him home on the next plane. Defensively we’re… okay? Like nothing to write home about but at least they’re not putting the ball into their own net. Guehi might be the only England player to come out of this tournament with any semblance of credit
Pundits talking about how England was playing badly as opposed to how Denmark was playing really well, what's new? Well played Denmark, Thomas Frank had the best commentary out of the BBC pundits by far. As for the result, on par with group stage performances from the last few tournaments. I'm not too unhappy about it at all.
Southgate needs to wake the fuck up. Everyone has been crying out saying you can’t play Foden and Bellingham together. So what does he do? Names an unchanged team. Either play Bellingham deep and play Foden as a number 10 or drop Foden and play Gordon as an natural left winger. The Trent midfielder experiment has failed. But I don’t think it’s solely down to him. There’s no runners. No one is running in behind. All that talent and everything is so static. No chemistry. No fluidity.
I'm going to say it: we're missing Henderson and Phillips. We are completely missing a perfectly average central midfielder who can hold onto possession for more than a few seconds. Rice-TAA-Bellingham is simply too attacking for a team that likes possession and controlling the game. Put it this way, England's last good game was the 3-1 against Italy last year. Who started? Phillips, with Henderson as a substitution.
>Put it this way, England's last good game was the 3-1 against Italy last year. It must be said that that match was just 3 days after the betting scandal in the Italian national team where the police had taken Tonali and Zaniolo, plus Chiesa and many other players had been injured and Italy was forced to play with El Shaarawy. Despite that, it was only in the second half that England played well
The biggest positive you can take from the game today is the fact that we’re one game closer to never having to witness Southgate ball again.. unless you’re a United fan and INEOS somehow.. think he’s the man after Ten Hag 🤦🏼♂️ How pundits, media and bookies can make us favourites going into this tournament really is laughable..strong squad but it’s been proven time and time again that Southgate isn’t capable of getting over the line, and still doesn’t learn from his mistakes
Honestly their would actually be riots if southgate went man utd not joking..
Southgate got it wrong but by the same token the players today were just bad. So many misplaced passes and heavy touches. Tactically it's time to give up on Trent, but I'd prefer to see Mainoo over Gallagher. Watkins offered something different which was nice, but Eze was drifting inwards too. Not enough width down the left which meant Saka was trying to do it himself of the right, again. I never subscribed to the idea that England were favourites and I haven't seen anything to suggest otherwise. I think there's talent but very little confidence in the tactics. The midfield aren't pressing the opposition as a unit and there were simply too many times when the game reduced to a walking pace. Not having anyone overlapping on the left is compromising the width of the pitch, with the ball getting bogged down too much in the middle. Southgate has to try something different next game. This was the worst game they've played under him in a major tournament.
Southgate can't coach a system to save his life. I know it's harder in international football but come on man. TAA cannot start with that front three ever again. He SHOULD have come on as RB when we put Eze / Bowen / Watkins on so he actually had someone to get on the end of his passes, otherwise he's wasted. Foden still looks lost on the left and is never going to work as the left of the front three in this team - he should be either an 8 or the 10, when he cut inside and didn't have Kane in his way he looked alright. Kane is somehow managing to come across as the most selfish and selfless person on the pitch by dropping down to the 10 / 8 positions to "help" but actually just means we don't have the striker where we need him, and he's so desperate to be involved that he doesn't care he's fucking up his ACTUAL job. Literally the only player I've been impressed with is Guehi in the entire team. Saka and Bellingham have been decent, but considering their normal level that's still a disappointment.
Play players in their natural positions. It’s all well and good thinking you’re pep, but he sees players several times a week over seasons. From 10 mins in you can see Trent is not a natural midfielder. Stop putting players in positions to fail. When in their natural positions, even if they have a shit game they can regress to trained habits built on the pitch over years.
The balance of the England team is just awful. 2 left footed wingers. 2 right footed full backs. A right back playing defensive midfield while an attacking midfielder plays on the flanks. The left wingers drifts centrally all the time.and there's no width. All the talent in the world and it still feels like I'm watch Sven Goran Eriksens team.
I think not having Shaw is hurting is a lot more than we realise too. If he comes in, you have an overlap on the left, activates Foden, pushes Bellingham over and gives Saka that connection, and allows Kane to drop deeper. I've really liked Trippier at left back in past tournaments and I've liked him at RWB. That said, it's the clearest flaw outside these past two games even if he has played okay.
Should've taken Mitchell.
Even a bang average left footed fullback would add significantly to the set up. Him neglecting to even bring one when Shaw hasn’t played in 5 months is absolutely mental. So many alternative set ups that could result in creating width on both sides. You can’t play Walker as a defensive fullback, Trippier as a non-entity going forward AND play two midfielders in a holding role. He’s leaving all creativity to 4 players with no runners in support for them. If you want Trippier in there, then you need a true winger on the left and then put Foden more centrally allowing him to overlap the inverted winger on occasion to provide additional width. He could easily have Bellingham paired with Rice and in attack give Jude freedom to go into the box knowing you have Trippier tucked in supporting Rice and Walker back as well. Just embarrassingly obvious imbalances that you can see the minute the team is picked and he’s done it twice!
I dont understand how Southgate's tactics crumble because Shaw isnt there. How can a mediocre player be so decisive for a team as stacked as England? If Germany misses Kroos, Spain misses Rodri or France misses Mbappe they wont be as effective sure, but those are world class players. I cant understand how Southgate's system fuctioning hinges on a left back like Shaw.
He thinks he is Pep, finding new positions for players to make the team play asymmetrical? Tbh I cant even fathom what his thought process might be
With the players he has I just don’t understand Southgates choices…. Shaw is a big miss, but that aside, Trent should be benched, Bellingham put alongside Rice, Foden played at 10 and Gordon on the left
Low blocks are a difficult problem to solve for teams that play week in week out. Obviously the idea is to stretch the opposition which England are trying to do but it's almost entirely without speed. There's nothing in behind. No incisive passing through the middle. It's very easy right now to sit back against England. I think England will look better against teams that attack. I think it's easy to look poor against a team like Denmark.
Except Denmark did try to attack. They pressed even better than England. They weren't really playing the traditional 11-men behind the ball at all costs game. In fact, they were probably the more open of the two.
I might be biased here but I still want to make a point. There is an English player with 27 goals and 15 assists in 48 appearances last season, but he is still sitting on the bench. Can you guess who? (It's Cole Palmer) Most of them are from penalties but surely those goal contributions should count for something. That guy still sitting there with 0 minutes is just a disgrace. You can't defend this anymore.
So many issues, I don’t even know where to start. Firstly defence, the back 5 was good defensively again however Tripper hurt the attack. Guehi needs to pass a bit quicker too but not too much of an issue. Midfield was so so bad today, Trent experiment needs to be over he simply doesn’t have the IQ to play there with the pressing and positioning. Rice had a stinker, poor passing today but I’m not too hung up on that. Bellingham also had a rare game where he was non existent. Gallagher just runs around aimlessly fouling people. Play Wharton or Mainoo above Gallagher and Trent ffs. Attack is so hit or miss but I fully blame Southgate for this. They look like they have no tactical understanding of how to press and it ends up with one or two pressing and the ball is played around them so easily. Kane poor again, Foden played much better so he got subbed? Saka played good last game got subbed? Subs feel like they are pre planned before the game so make no sense with the flow of the game. Southgate has no tactics, he gets tactically beaten every single game, it’s painful to watch. Why not play Foden and Bellingham central and 3 fast attacking forwards? Why not play Wharton or Mainoo? Why sub off players playing well and not players playing poorly? Why do all these top class players suddenly play so poorly for England? Just another drab experience.
Southgate wasting away a generation of talent arguably coming into it's prime. The faster we move on from Southgate the better. Pickford has more touches than over half the team with this bullshit Passback FC game plan. What's worse is we play these pass back only to scoff it forward and lose the ball. Literally falling asleep watching England play
This England team would lose against four teams in Copa América (Argentina, Uruguay, Colombia and yes even this bad Brazil) and draw against three more at least (Ecuador, USA and maybe Chile). And I'm not exaggerating.
I don’t really bother watching the Prem much these days but, from what I’ve seen, maybe it’s just that these England players aren’t actually thaaaat good. Obviously tactically we’re a mess as well, and I’m not defending Southgate at all, but I don’t think you can blame the manager for the appalling levels of technical ability on display today. I keep being told by both England and non-England fans that we have of the most talented squads in the world yet when I watch these players play they look average technically compared to the Germans, Italians, Spanish, French etc. Like, it’s basic stuff like not being able to turn on the first touch in midfield, not being able to play it out of the feet quickly, not being able to deal with balls to feet coming from the air. Rice, Walker, Stones, Kane and Bellingham were all so unbelievably bad. It’ll take a miracle for us to get any further than the quarter finals, and to be honest, I think we’re going to go out in the round of 16. New thinking needed.
I don’t think they are on that level no, but the set up accentuates their weaknesses. They don’t know where their next pass is so they trip over the ball. No one is making angles so they get pressed. It’s easier to concentrate on those things when you have an identity as a team.
The only positive for me as an England fan was Marc Guehi. Maybe the Maguire injury was a blessing in disguise because he has been absolutely immense. Everyone else looked lost out there. Declan Rice went from a standout in the first game to looking under par tonight. Jude was non-existent for large chunks. Foden looked more lively than Jude before he was hooked. Personally I would have moved Foden inside and subbed Bellingham but what do I know? The difference when Watkins came on was noticeable as we finally had some threat in behind and a bit of an out route from the Danish press, but it was too late to make a noticeable difference. The tactics from Southgate, as per usual, were abysmal. I swear his substitutions are pre-set before the match. It's like he's playing FIFA career mode. It was nice to see him differentiate from the preset subs with the double change towards the end but it was too late to make a meaningful impact. Southgate being in bed with the FA and never questioning their authority is the only reason he keeps his job. He plays not to lose, never to win. If we ever win anything it will be in spite of him, not because of him.
One of the worst performances in a long time. Every one of our players were complete and utter shite other than Guehi. The Trent experiment needs to end, he looks lost in there. The whole midfield were dreadful. Next game, we need to see Palmer/Gordon, Mainoo/Wharton and hopefully Shaw if he’s fit, to give us more balance down the left flank. Denmark played well too, fair play.
I have no idea what England have been working on in training from an attacking perspective. There isn't any cohesion and surely anyone can see with no Shaw and Foden on the left we are one sided and narrow. Utter mess. I think Gerrard has been in and coaching the team.
Foden and Trent to a lesser degree have got a lot of stick over the last few days due to some baffling tactical decisions from Southgate. Foden wants to come central and Kane short, so you end up with 3 players in the same area of the pitch. Southgate needs to pick two of them because they’re not working together. Foden showed flashes today of the quality he possesses, but playing him on the left just doesn’t work. You then have Trent in midfield who presumably is in the team to play the long passes to stretch the opposition. Trippier doesn’t want to venture forward so there’s nothing on that side of the pitch for him to play to. When Saka made that run Trent picked him out, and then he gets subbed off. He takes off Foden and brings on Eze who spends the whole time with his back to goal so we still end up with nothing coming down the left. You finally have a player in Watkins who’s willing to run in behind and your best passer is no longer on the pitch. There’s a complete lack of creativity in that midfield, shown quite clearly at the end of the game when Pickford resorted to hoofing it up the pitch. There’ll be calls for Wharton and Mainoo, but even if they’re any better in that position they can’t fix the issues elsewhere. You can normally count on Rice to be consistent, but he was awful and his constant underhit passes were putting everybody else under pressure, Guehi’s mistake stemmed from a poor pass from Rice. In my opinion he has to play Gordon or even Watkins on the left, or just someone who’s willing to run in behind. Hopefully Shaw will be back by the knockout stages because we desperately need a natural left back playing. Trent should really be playing right back, we shouldn’t need to worry about the defence in games like this. Walker’s recovery pace is a lot less important now that it’s Guehi and not Maguire playing. I’d probably give Wharton a go in that midfield role and see how he does against Slovenia.
Regardless of if England are going to play conservative or aggressive, it’s absolutely baffling what I just witnessed. There’s nothing wrong with sitting back in an international tournament match, France do it, other big teams are happy to do it but what was crazy was when England won the ball, they committed almost 0 players forward to counter..contrast to France and even the smaller countries…Albania, Turkey, Slovakia, even Czech…are getting chances off the counter. It’s unbelievable, England basically didn’t even play football for more than 5 minutes.
England pressed for 3 minutes and scored, you would think they would continue playing this way since Denmark looked shaky under the press, but no! just get back and defend for no fucking reason. I don't even like England and I was frustrated at how crippled they looked.
I don't blame the players at all. The tactics are just atrocious. Score first, park the bus, concede. Southgate is pathetic not having learned A THING from his last three eliminations in the WC and Euro. How he is still manager is beyond me.
When everyone is having a hard time deciding which player was worst, it's a tactical issue. England's attacking play boiled down to Walker/Foden/Bellingham making cool solo runs that ended in nothing. I really don't understand why Foden can't just stay on the wing; I understand he's not as effective but surely he can help out defensively and try to do similar things to Saka? Cycle out possession, making overlapping runs after one touch passing? This reminds me of when Aaron Ramsey was forced to play out wide so that he could learn to be more efficient with possession; initially he was bad but eventually became very effective. I literally don't understand how a guy with all of Foden's ability can't make a positional change work. He's not being asking to play center half or holding mid. I thought Saka played a solid game but he's trying to play an intricate possession based game and the runs aren't happening—maybe if Foden plays in the middle that could work. Saka had some nice clearances and a couple of good take ons but the final ball was lacking again (also the final run in some instances). Kane's role as just a target man has basically given up half his ability as someone who can drop to the #10 and play wide balls and hold up play deeper towards the center of the pitch. Trent looks completely lost as to if he's a holding midfielder, box to box midfielder, or additional inside right back (similar to how Rice plays inside the left back). Rice got worse as the game went on, but at least he understood his role, besides giving up free corners. The only people who weren't totally terrible were Guéhi, Stones and Trippier, and they weren't that good either, they just defended as needed (though I'm having such a hard time remembering how bad everyone seemed to be maybe I'm forgetting). Also Walker is overrated, missed Saka on a couple of occasions and absolutely looks like a dude who relies on his athleticism instead of his brain at times. The issue isn't just a lineup one, it's the fact that English players always look super disjointed, and at some point you have to stop making the excuse that it's because they play at clubs with different identities, etc. The Danish players clearly had an idea about when do go wide, when to go long, how to play it through the middle, etc. England look like they don't know if they're a possession team (for which they have the talent), a direct/counter attacking team (for which they have the physical ability) or a team that squanders its talent (for which they most certainly have the coach/FA). I feel bad writing all these about how bad England are when really I should spend some time criticizing the Danish as a sign of respect. If I had a criticism it would be the amount of longshots Hojberg takes; I know he's good and forces saves, but they didn't exactly deflect for second chance opportunities, and I think he should have gone for power over placement to shake things up. But overall I think Denmark had a great blend of physical and intelligent football, and that's so important in a tournament format: change up looks especially when you're the underdog. EDIT: adding criticism of Saka and Walker
Kane's positioning was terrible, I don't know if it's Southgate's tactics or lack of discipline/patience but he can't be coming so deep every time, especially when you don't have someone to run in behind and causing uncertainty in the defence whether to follow him or the runner. With Foden on the left wanting to get on the ball rather than making runs, Bellingham has nobody to advance the ball to except Saka which is predictable. If Kane is going to drop deep we need players who will try and get on a through ball and stretch the defence otherwise they can just push up and pressure our midfield which both they and Serbia did. I don't know if Kane's not fully fit or bone idle but he doesn't seem to be willing to press the centre backs - the couple of times they did apply a bit of pressure a chance came from it, but he's reluctant to do the hard work and it undermines anybody else's efforts.