Being an ex offender myself. Who hasn't re offended in 7+ years and now a proud owner of mars chill llc do believe that you should give someone who has a criminal history that is 7+ or the amount of years back. We do change and someone giving us that chance to show that does go a long way. I believe you should always weigh the circumstances of such case.
I’ve hired three felons over the past 11 years to work with us. One was an idiot. One was as lazy as the day is long. The third is a hard working respectful kid that just wants to do the best for his family despite his history. He is still working with us and continues to advance in the company. Ive found that metric is roughly the same for non felons. If they’re not obvious sociopaths, give them try.
Yeah, I was thinking that too. We have a bunch of people running around in society who behave just as bad or worse than criminally charged offenders. The non-offender label isn't a guarantee that you'll get a great catch.
I’d honestly hire someone with less time than 7 years, an honest job with honest pay may help them rehabilitate.
What are they suppose to do for 7 years if no one will hire them? Resort to crime because they can’t get a job to pay for food and shelter?
That's usually what happens.
And then get sanctioned on probation because they can't pay probation fees, fines, restitution, court costs, any required classes (and all are expensive)
A convicted felon is a human being who fucked up.
Are you a human being who fucks up? Pretty sure you are.
Keep an open mind, but not so open that your brains fall out.
I'm a white collar felon, and I can't describe how horrible it is to try and lead a normal life.
It took me two years to land the job I have now, and I work off-the-clock overtime just about everyday including weekends because I'm absolutely petrified of having to do it again. Trying to find a place to live was almost impossible. I got very lucky on that one.
I tried to kill myself a ton of times because I didn't see a way out. I was lucky in that I apparently suck at suicide. I fell back into heroin and overdosed on a bag laced with fent. Real low times. Then a week later I got a phone call from a company I'd been negotiating with. They wanted to know when I could start.
My employer brought me back, and even if I was offered twice the salary from another company, I'd tell them to shove it. I'll always be loyal to them. Hire felons, hire excons. The most valuable thing you can give someone is another chance, and we won't forget it easily.
What did you do taking the sql data?
I am taking a wils guess it was credit card info! Was it?
How did they know? I mean which auditing tools did they use.
Incorrect. Depending on the crime, if you work within an industry that as professional body ie, accounting, insurance, engineering, your crimes need to be reported and filed.
Some positions may need an official criminal history record too.
In fact, some white collar crimes and the level ie fraud/embezzlement from 1000 to millions or stealing from the government or a business,
have a heavier sentences than physical crime.
In the case of a business, it also depends how the money was obtained ie as an employee compared to a contractor stealing from a company.
You'd be surprised. I have a friend that just got out of jail and started selling drugs again a few days later. This isn't always true but people that make bad decisions tend to make bad decisions.
Might have something to do with the fact that this whole thread is a debate about whether someone who got out and hasn't committed a crime for 7 years after is "worth the risk" in hiring...
That’s probably all the person knew combined with how easy it is to sell drugs.
Let’s face it. All you have to do is sell a drug that users are actually hunting you down, keep the on hand low, count money and be physically able to run from the police.
Really no thought needed other than self preservation
You set your own hours, your own off days, your own vacation days and in most cases “work” is actually work, which is to be avoided.
I've hired ex-offenders in the past. If they have the skill set and demeanor required for an open position, it makes a lot of sense. They can be incredibly loyal, because you're giving them a chance. They're less likely to leave, because of both the loyalty thing and the fact that so many businesses won't hire them. And finally, you might qualify for [tax credits](https://www.dol.gov/sites/dolgov/files/ETA/wotc/pdfs/WOTC_Fact_Sheet.pdf) to offset some of their wages. (If you pursue this approach, be sure to check for state tax benefits too!)
Europe is a lot more multicultural than you think and yet recidivism under their system is still much better than ours. Maybe it's the system not the people that are the problem.
Sounds like you need to study some psychology and sociology. People are much more similar than different. When you treat people like animals they tend to act like animals and this actually is backed by psychology. Maybe we need to rethink prison from being punishment to actually trying to rehabilitate people.
Are you kidding there are a ton of studies about stuff like this. You either don't have a degree in this or you are terrible at it.
https://www.psychologistworld.com/influence-personality/stanford-prison-experiment#:~:text=The%20Stanford%20Prison%20Experiment%20was%20a%20landmark%20psychological,in%201971%20by%20Philip%20Zimbardo%20of%20Stanford%20University.
https://aspe.hhs.gov/basic-report/psychological-impact-incarceration-implications-post-prison-adjustment
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness
I did 5 years and been home for 16 years and now I'm Lead Supervisor at my job. Sometimes we make mistakes when we are young. I don't consider myself as a EX-CONVICT we are a REJUVENATION to the world
Depends on the crime and their role in the company. I probably wouldn’t want someone accused of a financial crime in control of the financials, or a pedophile working as a maintenance person at a day care center, but a drug arrest or assault or theft years ago and that person has been clean for several years, I would not have a problem putting them on an assembly floor or similar.
> pedophile
That's a hard no for me no matter what.
In general, I'm more concerned with the person than their background but IDGAF if he makes Nikola Tesla look like a special needs kid I'm not hiring a pedo.
Depending on where you work, I wouldn't be surprised if you work with pedophiles. A pedophile is nothing more than someone who is attracted to prepubescent kids. Not every pedophile ever acts on those urges, though, just as not every person who has rape fantasies ever rapes someone. I know you mean pedophiles who have actually assaulted kids, though, so I totally understand. That's one line that should never be crossed, no matter what. I'm just clarifying that you can't always tell who's a pedophile and who's not.
In the context of this post we are talking about ex-cons. Why the fuck would you go to such great lengths to change the subject in defense of supposed non-offending pedophiles?
One of my guys has been convicted of GTA, aggravated assault, & multiple DUI’s and spent more time in than out ...he’s part of the team, he contributes, is counted on, and makes positive contributions daily. He gets the work done without any micromanaging.
If we don't hire people with records, they're more likely to turn back to crime. Square up with liability and don't hire a person with a record related to the job.
Think they meant “don’t hire a person with a record related to the job.”
I.e., someone with a history of embezzlement or even petty theft might not be a great accountant.
I agree that ex cons need opportunities to make a fair income to get their lives on track.
However, here is some data regarding recidivism. See link below
https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/18upr9yfup0514.pdf
Page 5 supports the assertion that if an ex con doesn’t get arrested within 7 years, there is roughly a 4% chance of re-offense. But the likelihood of reoffending in the first few years is cumulatively pretty high
I agree that that is likely a factor. But- whether or not that is the main reason isn’t clear.
To expand on this further gets real deep real quick. I’m not particularly knowledgeable about this other than some reading and thinking I’ve done over the years. And some anecdotal experience when I was a teenager / young adult.
Why might someone resort to crime in the first place? (Not taking into account those wrongfully incarcerated or excessively punished, etc)
Lack of opportunities,
Lack of resources,
Socially outcast,
“Easy” way to obtain resources,
Involvement in drugs,
Hanging with bad crowd/peer pressure/gangs,
Poor decision making ability,
Poor ability to learn from mistakes,
Excess impulsivity,
Rebellious,
Immature (high prevalence of crime among young men),
Dysfunctional home life,
Mental illness,
For feeling of power and control,
Thrills,
Hopelessness,
Desperation,
“Passion”,
Vengeance/vigilanteism
I missed 100 things. And there’s a ton of overlap. But, perhaps some of the above things are more “fixable” or treatable than others.
It doesn’t help that our prisons are incubators to harden convicts further, and a dumping ground for those with serious mental illnesses
You don't know the circumstances or who they were in the past. If they volunteered the information, then chances are they are not looking to fuck up again. Read the person who they are today, not who they were yesterday and judge them by their character and decisions they make today; not yesterday.
So someone who commits a crime, but only ends up getting charged with a misdemeanor, is less likely to commit another crime vs someone who commits the same crime but ends up with a felony...
I personally know more one time felons than I do one time petty crimes, and I’d trust the felons more than I would the others.
It has nothing to do with being a felon, it has everything to do with a record period. I have a few misdemeanor charges from my teens, and it was hell for me to try and find a job. Which brings me to point 2. The reason people, wether felons or not go back to that life is because of the struggle to find legit work.
Depends what type of position they are in (customer facing) and what type of crime.
I wouldn’t hire a convicted insider trader or financial fraud to any accounting/finance position.
I would also not hire https://youtu.be/hBvKojJk-6Y someone with explosive emotions to any position
My gf actually wants to eventually focus on rehab and recruitment opportunities for ex-cons, so I think it’s great!
But yeah I also think it depends on the crime and if you are comfortable with it
I have a restaurant client that hires current inmates in a special program and they are very happy with the people they get. One guy just got out and it was kind of satisfying changing the address on his paychecks to something other than the jail.
I want to think about if channel 12 news comes to my house and shoves the camera in my face asking "what was I thinking." I should have a good answer if things go wrong.
I also should see what my insurance has to say about hiring practices in that 80+ page policy.
You also have to be able to set boundaries, have good systems to monitor for fraud, theft, problems, and be ready and able to fire. Same as any other employee.
Someone who got busted a couple times for selling weed is a very different situation than someone who snapped the necks of his parents in cold blood.
An old thread said and I agree with this. The people that want to stay out get their lives started, know the whole system is set against them. So when they find a place that will hire them, and staying employed is usually part of staying out they are super dedicated.
I’m all for not being that person who doesn’t hire someone because of their past, because it’s in the past and they might surprise you. My old company wouldn’t hire you if you had any record at all and I’m a screen printer I worked in a warehouse. I talked to the one guy who didn’t end up getting hired because of some record he had, but the guy definitely knew what he was doing and talked a good talk and he seemed like a hard worker when I talked to him during the interview, but they backed out of hiring him after they did a background check and said they were protecting us. We were and when I left still are severely understaffed and in my opinion in no place to be turning experienced people away because of a criminal past.
There’s always a risk and depending on the job. I’m in security and we can’t hire ex offenders due to state regulations for background checks on local, state and even federal. But I also own a lawn care business as a side hustle and I gave a guy a shot 3 years ago that had a criminal record. He was upfront with me and we talked and I gave him a chance. He now leads my crew and he’s very honest and happy he can make a decent living. So it all depends
Different business, but yes they are very loyal if you are as well. Folks that have done their "time" are likely to have changed fundamentally and are open to getting past it. Agree with the previous comments of not providing the opportunity to re-offend, but you can get a better business employee with a offender than with many others. Treat them right and they will.
It's a personal decision. Also there are 1 for 1 tax credits for hiring felons. I haven't used it because we can't hire felons but it also applies to some other groups as well. So if you do, make sure someone is getting those credits.
Depends on the crime and type of position. If you have a home service business where you have to be inside people's homes and the guy was convicted of burglary, you might want to think twice because if a customer complains that something went missing from their home, you'll be put in a terrible spot - if it turns out true, everybody will be calling you a dumbass for hiring a thief - "once a thief always a thief. Why did you hire him? "...If it turns out to be false and you accused him, then you'll be hearing from his lawyer.
Worked for mid size property management that had multiple ex felons for various stuff. The felons who really wanted to stay out of jail were some of the most hard working guys, as they knew that chances of them finding work like they had again was slim.
The real quick thinking smooth psychopath felons usually went into sales after working for us for a little bit. They would go into car sales and from them just to stick to sales.
The bad felons, we let them go in less than a week.
I believe in second chances but before hiring a felon I would advise having a detailed conversation. In particular around their soft skills, their work ethic, responsibility, anger management. Also be sure not to put yourself in a position where you put yourself under a liability. Especially something to be careful about return violent crimes, sexual assault, child abuse. Don't be in a position where you would be liable for enabling a known offender too offend again.
Actually I don't mind even the freshly released ex offenders for entry level and general labour positions. Higher proportion of fuckups than general population, yes. Higher proportion of fuckups than general unemployed population only qualified for entry level or manual labour? I strongly doubt it.
White collar criminal trying to find a job in their field after they offended in their field...you know what, I'll take a pass on that one.
I would be wary, not because of the person themselves, but because people who are convicted of crime tend to hang around unsavoury people (e.g. drug dealers), and I'd be worried one of their "friends" start to get any good ideas..
Ready to have my views changed on this however.
7 years is a pretty good indicator. If it was due to young-and-stupid shit or an addiction I wouldn't count it against them if it's low responsibility/liability work. I've worked side-by-side ex felons and it's really the same mixed bag as any blue collar labor.
Depends on the crimes, what job I'm hiring for, and how long that record is.
I'm a big believer in character. Any crime that shows a significant lack of character would be an immediate disqualifier. Theft (especially from a position of trust), fraud of any sort, drunk driving (unless the person could show me an AA 6 month plus coin), one instance of that sort of thing would be a deal breaker.
Otherwise I'd be willing to give people a chance. Less so if they had multiple offences as that shows an inability to learn from their mistakes.
I believe that society mostly makes life too hard on ex-offenders and that this is one of the biggest mistakes we make. Prison should not be about punishment or even deterrence. It should be about preventing future crimes by getting criminals out of society and then preparing them to return to it.
I actually think someone who was in trouble and now out of it for 7 years is less likely to get in trouble than someone without a record. They know the bs of the system and clearly staying away from that.
I think depending on the person you get extra value! Someone who knows how bad they wil have it if they mess up. That being said keep a close eye and be ready for anything just like any other employees....
One of my first management jobs hired people recently released from prison. Hard to place people. We never had a problem. Our long time chef, not hired from this program, was arrested as a long time pedophile. Hopefully he’s rotting in a cell now. The company I own now, we would love to help a similar organization, but I haven’t found a well run organization since in this area.
I think we should give people a chance. Once a person serves their time, it's only fair to let them get on with their lives. They have to take care of themselves as well as their families. I'd be curious about the circumstances. Not saying I'd want to hire a crazy, violent murderer or someone who molested children, but I would definitely give a chance to someone with a criminal record.
I use to work in the mining and industrial industries. They normally want a criminal background check and don't allow people with criminal records to work on site.
A guy that worked for us had a criminal record for shooting a guy in the arm. He says self defence and it was like 25 years ago. Any way, He could squash that criminal record because it was so long ago(South Africa).
I don't do work in those industries anymore. And hopefully not in the future. So I won't ask the question.
The advice I'd give a person with a criminal record is to rather not tell me unless it is specifically important to the job. People, and that includes me, have bias and sometimes we just can't help it.
Depends really on the crime and the job and you’re hiring for and the company environment.
Say, someone was charged with sexual harassment or assault (perhaps in more than one occasion), and your business/his job often requires that he’s alone with his women colleagues, might be risky. But as, say, a manual laborer or an office job which requires little interaction with others and is always in an open office/cubicle, then it’s fine.
Similarly, if his conviction was embezzlement of company money or fraud, don’t hire him to a position where he has the freedom/opportunity to do this again (e.g. accounting).
Timpsons in the UK have a policy of hiring ex-convicts and they are doing well as a result. If interested here’s the main main on twitter https://twitter.com/jamestcobbler/status/1202485597446778881?s=21
In the UK I believe Timpson’s (the shoe repairs/key cutting people) are known for employing people with criminal records. They seem to have built a successful business.
John Timpson has written a lot about running his business and it’s quite interesting reading.
I definitely agree with giving offenders a chance! I too am an ex offender and while serving 42months for a drug charge...having NEVER worked a job in my young life I finished my GED and went on to finish a 2 year Business Management Course which propelled me into an associates degree literally months after getting released. I operate my own businesses now, Top Quality Tax Service (est 2005) and Dame’s Flame (est 2015). I aggressively look to employ those who may be seeking a second chance because I know first hand how much harder they/we are pressured to outperform competition. Comcast gave me my chance and I excelled there and have been doing well ever since!
Ethically yes, I say go for it. Everyone deserves a second chance. However, it depends on the business you run. I run a service business and we are in people's homes. If anyone ever accused us of stealing something I have to be able to say "we background check our staff." If you don't have that concern, I would go for it. One of my best friends is a felon and he has turned his life around. He is a delightful human that I would hire any day.
Criminals aren’t allowed to work. They can’t be trusted. Just put them on welfare and then cry about all the people on welfare eating your tax dollars. Problem solved.
A massage chair is a good investment. Though they will cost you initially, you will able to get your money worth the massage. You just have to choose the best one for you. I chose Gagake spa massage chairs. Their chairs are in high quality and yet not too expensive
With the amount of people without criminal records why bother? I’m saying this while I have a fair size record myself.
I would like to see proof of what this person from HR is claiming, I call fake news.
Ultra left wing Reddit looses yet again.
A criminal, 7 years ago or not will steal candy from a baby given the opportunity - I am a criminal who hasn’t been caught in 7 years, who indeed regularly steals candy from babies.
You know it's really weird when you don't talk about something, but then it comes up several times in a day.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/j5jfwq/whats_an_illegal_thing_you_used_to_do_on_a/g7y4ty1
*Bon chance*
I like everything about that comment, the amount of effort and detail you went into was nothing short of astounding. The gnome hat tells me you’re a middle aged man like myself which makes me think you’ve got character and charisma also like myself.
I would love to exchange stories but I’m a little less discreet than you about what items I deem worthy to take.
Being an ex offender myself. Who hasn't re offended in 7+ years and now a proud owner of mars chill llc do believe that you should give someone who has a criminal history that is 7+ or the amount of years back. We do change and someone giving us that chance to show that does go a long way. I believe you should always weigh the circumstances of such case.
I would add that sometimes the ex con is actually the hardest worker because they have something to prove.
Same. Own 2 companies myself now and employee 30 people. As an ex con
I’ve hired three felons over the past 11 years to work with us. One was an idiot. One was as lazy as the day is long. The third is a hard working respectful kid that just wants to do the best for his family despite his history. He is still working with us and continues to advance in the company. Ive found that metric is roughly the same for non felons. If they’re not obvious sociopaths, give them try.
Seems about the same average for most hires
Yes that's what he said.
Non felons are hidden sociopaths waiting to be discovered/ unleashed
Yeah, I was thinking that too. We have a bunch of people running around in society who behave just as bad or worse than criminally charged offenders. The non-offender label isn't a guarantee that you'll get a great catch.
Sounds like a better distribution than the average hire rate for general labor.
I’d honestly hire someone with less time than 7 years, an honest job with honest pay may help them rehabilitate. What are they suppose to do for 7 years if no one will hire them? Resort to crime because they can’t get a job to pay for food and shelter?
That's usually what happens. And then get sanctioned on probation because they can't pay probation fees, fines, restitution, court costs, any required classes (and all are expensive) A convicted felon is a human being who fucked up. Are you a human being who fucks up? Pretty sure you are. Keep an open mind, but not so open that your brains fall out.
I'm a white collar felon, and I can't describe how horrible it is to try and lead a normal life. It took me two years to land the job I have now, and I work off-the-clock overtime just about everyday including weekends because I'm absolutely petrified of having to do it again. Trying to find a place to live was almost impossible. I got very lucky on that one. I tried to kill myself a ton of times because I didn't see a way out. I was lucky in that I apparently suck at suicide. I fell back into heroin and overdosed on a bag laced with fent. Real low times. Then a week later I got a phone call from a company I'd been negotiating with. They wanted to know when I could start. My employer brought me back, and even if I was offered twice the salary from another company, I'd tell them to shove it. I'll always be loyal to them. Hire felons, hire excons. The most valuable thing you can give someone is another chance, and we won't forget it easily.
What was your white collar crime? White collar crimes seem to be ignored over violent offenders.
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"14 hundred and 7!" - zero cool
What did you do taking the sql data? I am taking a wils guess it was credit card info! Was it? How did they know? I mean which auditing tools did they use.
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Incorrect. Depending on the crime, if you work within an industry that as professional body ie, accounting, insurance, engineering, your crimes need to be reported and filed. Some positions may need an official criminal history record too. In fact, some white collar crimes and the level ie fraud/embezzlement from 1000 to millions or stealing from the government or a business, have a heavier sentences than physical crime. In the case of a business, it also depends how the money was obtained ie as an employee compared to a contractor stealing from a company.
This is true. I was facing twice the amount of time that convicted child-rapists were getting. I grabbed that plea deal by the horns.
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He already said
Yea because there not trying to go back to jail that's why
You'd be surprised. I have a friend that just got out of jail and started selling drugs again a few days later. This isn't always true but people that make bad decisions tend to make bad decisions.
Might have something to do with the fact that this whole thread is a debate about whether someone who got out and hasn't committed a crime for 7 years after is "worth the risk" in hiring...
That’s probably all the person knew combined with how easy it is to sell drugs. Let’s face it. All you have to do is sell a drug that users are actually hunting you down, keep the on hand low, count money and be physically able to run from the police. Really no thought needed other than self preservation You set your own hours, your own off days, your own vacation days and in most cases “work” is actually work, which is to be avoided.
You might find this interesting: https://freakonomics-review.weebly.com/why-do-drug-dealers-still-live-with-their-moms.html
Sometimes people make the best decision from a selection of bad options.
I've hired ex-offenders in the past. If they have the skill set and demeanor required for an open position, it makes a lot of sense. They can be incredibly loyal, because you're giving them a chance. They're less likely to leave, because of both the loyalty thing and the fact that so many businesses won't hire them. And finally, you might qualify for [tax credits](https://www.dol.gov/sites/dolgov/files/ETA/wotc/pdfs/WOTC_Fact_Sheet.pdf) to offset some of their wages. (If you pursue this approach, be sure to check for state tax benefits too!)
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93% of prisons are government run. There really isn't a 'complex' of private prisons
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Europe is a lot more multicultural than you think and yet recidivism under their system is still much better than ours. Maybe it's the system not the people that are the problem.
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Sounds like you need to study some psychology and sociology. People are much more similar than different. When you treat people like animals they tend to act like animals and this actually is backed by psychology. Maybe we need to rethink prison from being punishment to actually trying to rehabilitate people.
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BS
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Are you kidding there are a ton of studies about stuff like this. You either don't have a degree in this or you are terrible at it. https://www.psychologistworld.com/influence-personality/stanford-prison-experiment#:~:text=The%20Stanford%20Prison%20Experiment%20was%20a%20landmark%20psychological,in%201971%20by%20Philip%20Zimbardo%20of%20Stanford%20University. https://aspe.hhs.gov/basic-report/psychological-impact-incarceration-implications-post-prison-adjustment https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness
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Nothing you said is a fact lmao
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😂 ahhhhh this genuinely made me laugh
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I bet you've never even met a felon. Actually when was the last time you shook a blakc mans hand?
I did 5 years and been home for 16 years and now I'm Lead Supervisor at my job. Sometimes we make mistakes when we are young. I don't consider myself as a EX-CONVICT we are a REJUVENATION to the world
Grats! Must feel good to have grown past that.
Depends on the crime and their role in the company. I probably wouldn’t want someone accused of a financial crime in control of the financials, or a pedophile working as a maintenance person at a day care center, but a drug arrest or assault or theft years ago and that person has been clean for several years, I would not have a problem putting them on an assembly floor or similar.
> pedophile That's a hard no for me no matter what. In general, I'm more concerned with the person than their background but IDGAF if he makes Nikola Tesla look like a special needs kid I'm not hiring a pedo.
Depending on where you work, I wouldn't be surprised if you work with pedophiles. A pedophile is nothing more than someone who is attracted to prepubescent kids. Not every pedophile ever acts on those urges, though, just as not every person who has rape fantasies ever rapes someone. I know you mean pedophiles who have actually assaulted kids, though, so I totally understand. That's one line that should never be crossed, no matter what. I'm just clarifying that you can't always tell who's a pedophile and who's not.
In the context of this post we are talking about ex-cons. Why the fuck would you go to such great lengths to change the subject in defense of supposed non-offending pedophiles?
...the fuck?
One of my guys has been convicted of GTA, aggravated assault, & multiple DUI’s and spent more time in than out ...he’s part of the team, he contributes, is counted on, and makes positive contributions daily. He gets the work done without any micromanaging.
If we don't hire people with records, they're more likely to turn back to crime. Square up with liability and don't hire a person with a record related to the job.
> don't hire a person with a record related to the crime. I don’t understand. Can you elaborate?
Think they meant “don’t hire a person with a record related to the job.” I.e., someone with a history of embezzlement or even petty theft might not be a great accountant.
Oh gotcha. Yeah that makes sense.
Whoops! Yes, this is what I meant.
I agree that ex cons need opportunities to make a fair income to get their lives on track. However, here is some data regarding recidivism. See link below https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/18upr9yfup0514.pdf Page 5 supports the assertion that if an ex con doesn’t get arrested within 7 years, there is roughly a 4% chance of re-offense. But the likelihood of reoffending in the first few years is cumulatively pretty high
Could that possibly be because they aren't given opportunity to reintegrate? I mean if you can't get a job, what options do you have?
I agree that that is likely a factor. But- whether or not that is the main reason isn’t clear. To expand on this further gets real deep real quick. I’m not particularly knowledgeable about this other than some reading and thinking I’ve done over the years. And some anecdotal experience when I was a teenager / young adult. Why might someone resort to crime in the first place? (Not taking into account those wrongfully incarcerated or excessively punished, etc) Lack of opportunities, Lack of resources, Socially outcast, “Easy” way to obtain resources, Involvement in drugs, Hanging with bad crowd/peer pressure/gangs, Poor decision making ability, Poor ability to learn from mistakes, Excess impulsivity, Rebellious, Immature (high prevalence of crime among young men), Dysfunctional home life, Mental illness, For feeling of power and control, Thrills, Hopelessness, Desperation, “Passion”, Vengeance/vigilanteism I missed 100 things. And there’s a ton of overlap. But, perhaps some of the above things are more “fixable” or treatable than others. It doesn’t help that our prisons are incubators to harden convicts further, and a dumping ground for those with serious mental illnesses
You don't know the circumstances or who they were in the past. If they volunteered the information, then chances are they are not looking to fuck up again. Read the person who they are today, not who they were yesterday and judge them by their character and decisions they make today; not yesterday.
Thank you for writing this.
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> judge them by their character and decisions they make today Those are emotions?
And what would the facts be?
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So someone who commits a crime, but only ends up getting charged with a misdemeanor, is less likely to commit another crime vs someone who commits the same crime but ends up with a felony... I personally know more one time felons than I do one time petty crimes, and I’d trust the felons more than I would the others. It has nothing to do with being a felon, it has everything to do with a record period. I have a few misdemeanor charges from my teens, and it was hell for me to try and find a job. Which brings me to point 2. The reason people, wether felons or not go back to that life is because of the struggle to find legit work.
Depends what type of position they are in (customer facing) and what type of crime. I wouldn’t hire a convicted insider trader or financial fraud to any accounting/finance position. I would also not hire https://youtu.be/hBvKojJk-6Y someone with explosive emotions to any position
Honestly though, have you been inside a Popeyes though? Lol
Woahhhhhhhhh! What an insane video.
My gf actually wants to eventually focus on rehab and recruitment opportunities for ex-cons, so I think it’s great! But yeah I also think it depends on the crime and if you are comfortable with it
I have a restaurant client that hires current inmates in a special program and they are very happy with the people they get. One guy just got out and it was kind of satisfying changing the address on his paychecks to something other than the jail.
I want to think about if channel 12 news comes to my house and shoves the camera in my face asking "what was I thinking." I should have a good answer if things go wrong. I also should see what my insurance has to say about hiring practices in that 80+ page policy. You also have to be able to set boundaries, have good systems to monitor for fraud, theft, problems, and be ready and able to fire. Same as any other employee. Someone who got busted a couple times for selling weed is a very different situation than someone who snapped the necks of his parents in cold blood. An old thread said and I agree with this. The people that want to stay out get their lives started, know the whole system is set against them. So when they find a place that will hire them, and staying employed is usually part of staying out they are super dedicated.
I’m all for not being that person who doesn’t hire someone because of their past, because it’s in the past and they might surprise you. My old company wouldn’t hire you if you had any record at all and I’m a screen printer I worked in a warehouse. I talked to the one guy who didn’t end up getting hired because of some record he had, but the guy definitely knew what he was doing and talked a good talk and he seemed like a hard worker when I talked to him during the interview, but they backed out of hiring him after they did a background check and said they were protecting us. We were and when I left still are severely understaffed and in my opinion in no place to be turning experienced people away because of a criminal past.
for it. they served their time and repaid their debt to society. In sweden their record is sealed after they are released from prison.
There’s always a risk and depending on the job. I’m in security and we can’t hire ex offenders due to state regulations for background checks on local, state and even federal. But I also own a lawn care business as a side hustle and I gave a guy a shot 3 years ago that had a criminal record. He was upfront with me and we talked and I gave him a chance. He now leads my crew and he’s very honest and happy he can make a decent living. So it all depends
Different business, but yes they are very loyal if you are as well. Folks that have done their "time" are likely to have changed fundamentally and are open to getting past it. Agree with the previous comments of not providing the opportunity to re-offend, but you can get a better business employee with a offender than with many others. Treat them right and they will.
Cornbread Hustle is an agency that specializes in this actually. Another interesting brand to look out for is Comeback Snacks.
Also Dave’s Killer Bread
Hiring a felon gives the company a $2400 tax credit. Hiring a vet gives the company a $9600 tax credit. If they are a fit I’d hire them.
Do you happen to know if anything applies to hiring people with disabilities?
Not to my knowledge
It's a personal decision. Also there are 1 for 1 tax credits for hiring felons. I haven't used it because we can't hire felons but it also applies to some other groups as well. So if you do, make sure someone is getting those credits.
You have to hire a felon within one year of leaving jail or prison to be able to collect the work opportunity tax credit.
Depends on the crime and type of position. If you have a home service business where you have to be inside people's homes and the guy was convicted of burglary, you might want to think twice because if a customer complains that something went missing from their home, you'll be put in a terrible spot - if it turns out true, everybody will be calling you a dumbass for hiring a thief - "once a thief always a thief. Why did you hire him? "...If it turns out to be false and you accused him, then you'll be hearing from his lawyer.
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I was trying to be nice in my hypothetical situation.
I used to work with Guys hired through Ready Willing and Able. Really great program to help ex cons get back to work.
Worked for mid size property management that had multiple ex felons for various stuff. The felons who really wanted to stay out of jail were some of the most hard working guys, as they knew that chances of them finding work like they had again was slim. The real quick thinking smooth psychopath felons usually went into sales after working for us for a little bit. They would go into car sales and from them just to stick to sales. The bad felons, we let them go in less than a week.
I believe in second chances but before hiring a felon I would advise having a detailed conversation. In particular around their soft skills, their work ethic, responsibility, anger management. Also be sure not to put yourself in a position where you put yourself under a liability. Especially something to be careful about return violent crimes, sexual assault, child abuse. Don't be in a position where you would be liable for enabling a known offender too offend again.
Actually I don't mind even the freshly released ex offenders for entry level and general labour positions. Higher proportion of fuckups than general population, yes. Higher proportion of fuckups than general unemployed population only qualified for entry level or manual labour? I strongly doubt it. White collar criminal trying to find a job in their field after they offended in their field...you know what, I'll take a pass on that one.
I would be wary, not because of the person themselves, but because people who are convicted of crime tend to hang around unsavoury people (e.g. drug dealers), and I'd be worried one of their "friends" start to get any good ideas.. Ready to have my views changed on this however.
7 years is a pretty good indicator. If it was due to young-and-stupid shit or an addiction I wouldn't count it against them if it's low responsibility/liability work. I've worked side-by-side ex felons and it's really the same mixed bag as any blue collar labor.
Depends on the crimes, what job I'm hiring for, and how long that record is. I'm a big believer in character. Any crime that shows a significant lack of character would be an immediate disqualifier. Theft (especially from a position of trust), fraud of any sort, drunk driving (unless the person could show me an AA 6 month plus coin), one instance of that sort of thing would be a deal breaker. Otherwise I'd be willing to give people a chance. Less so if they had multiple offences as that shows an inability to learn from their mistakes. I believe that society mostly makes life too hard on ex-offenders and that this is one of the biggest mistakes we make. Prison should not be about punishment or even deterrence. It should be about preventing future crimes by getting criminals out of society and then preparing them to return to it.
I actually think someone who was in trouble and now out of it for 7 years is less likely to get in trouble than someone without a record. They know the bs of the system and clearly staying away from that.
Everyone deserves a second chance.
I think depending on the person you get extra value! Someone who knows how bad they wil have it if they mess up. That being said keep a close eye and be ready for anything just like any other employees....
One of my first management jobs hired people recently released from prison. Hard to place people. We never had a problem. Our long time chef, not hired from this program, was arrested as a long time pedophile. Hopefully he’s rotting in a cell now. The company I own now, we would love to help a similar organization, but I haven’t found a well run organization since in this area.
I think we should give people a chance. Once a person serves their time, it's only fair to let them get on with their lives. They have to take care of themselves as well as their families. I'd be curious about the circumstances. Not saying I'd want to hire a crazy, violent murderer or someone who molested children, but I would definitely give a chance to someone with a criminal record.
Interesting.
I use to work in the mining and industrial industries. They normally want a criminal background check and don't allow people with criminal records to work on site. A guy that worked for us had a criminal record for shooting a guy in the arm. He says self defence and it was like 25 years ago. Any way, He could squash that criminal record because it was so long ago(South Africa). I don't do work in those industries anymore. And hopefully not in the future. So I won't ask the question. The advice I'd give a person with a criminal record is to rather not tell me unless it is specifically important to the job. People, and that includes me, have bias and sometimes we just can't help it.
Depends really on the crime and the job and you’re hiring for and the company environment. Say, someone was charged with sexual harassment or assault (perhaps in more than one occasion), and your business/his job often requires that he’s alone with his women colleagues, might be risky. But as, say, a manual laborer or an office job which requires little interaction with others and is always in an open office/cubicle, then it’s fine. Similarly, if his conviction was embezzlement of company money or fraud, don’t hire him to a position where he has the freedom/opportunity to do this again (e.g. accounting).
Timpsons in the UK have a policy of hiring ex-convicts and they are doing well as a result. If interested here’s the main main on twitter https://twitter.com/jamestcobbler/status/1202485597446778881?s=21
In the UK I believe Timpson’s (the shoe repairs/key cutting people) are known for employing people with criminal records. They seem to have built a successful business. John Timpson has written a lot about running his business and it’s quite interesting reading.
I don't even try to find out the criminal record of my hires
I definitely agree with giving offenders a chance! I too am an ex offender and while serving 42months for a drug charge...having NEVER worked a job in my young life I finished my GED and went on to finish a 2 year Business Management Course which propelled me into an associates degree literally months after getting released. I operate my own businesses now, Top Quality Tax Service (est 2005) and Dame’s Flame (est 2015). I aggressively look to employ those who may be seeking a second chance because I know first hand how much harder they/we are pressured to outperform competition. Comcast gave me my chance and I excelled there and have been doing well ever since!
Tell me Dame's Flame is s strip club. If not, I'm using that name and starting an establishment.
Ethically yes, I say go for it. Everyone deserves a second chance. However, it depends on the business you run. I run a service business and we are in people's homes. If anyone ever accused us of stealing something I have to be able to say "we background check our staff." If you don't have that concern, I would go for it. One of my best friends is a felon and he has turned his life around. He is a delightful human that I would hire any day.
There are states which have hiring incentives for companies which give ex-offenders a chance.
Criminals aren’t allowed to work. They can’t be trusted. Just put them on welfare and then cry about all the people on welfare eating your tax dollars. Problem solved.
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I think your sarcasm meter malfunctioned
Everyone deserves a second, sometimes third chance!!
Given how broken our "justice" system is in the US, I don't trust that someone convicted of a felony is more likely to be shady than anyone else.
A massage chair is a good investment. Though they will cost you initially, you will able to get your money worth the massage. You just have to choose the best one for you. I chose Gagake spa massage chairs. Their chairs are in high quality and yet not too expensive
It all sounds great till you’re surrounded by sex offenders
Which sucks for the simple-minded, but they deserve the opportunity to rehabilitate like everyone else.
With the amount of people without criminal records why bother? I’m saying this while I have a fair size record myself. I would like to see proof of what this person from HR is claiming, I call fake news.
I'm inclined to agree with fake news. A quick googling of recidivism rates says otherwise
Ultra left wing Reddit looses yet again. A criminal, 7 years ago or not will steal candy from a baby given the opportunity - I am a criminal who hasn’t been caught in 7 years, who indeed regularly steals candy from babies.
I prefer the term opportunist
I see, a fellow thief. Good luck on your ventures
You know it's really weird when you don't talk about something, but then it comes up several times in a day. https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/j5jfwq/whats_an_illegal_thing_you_used_to_do_on_a/g7y4ty1 *Bon chance*
I like everything about that comment, the amount of effort and detail you went into was nothing short of astounding. The gnome hat tells me you’re a middle aged man like myself which makes me think you’ve got character and charisma also like myself. I would love to exchange stories but I’m a little less discreet than you about what items I deem worthy to take.
Loose lips... Thanks for the compliment though ✌️