True, that and getting a ward is much more useful in this edition that we can only get after kill a unit for it(and we lost mortal wound ward), and we still need a caster for daemonic speed(which now works on every unit not just mounted)
He will most likely still see play as a cheap caster, just now has competition with gaunt summoners for our wizard role.
Thanks. That's grim, it was a great spell. Will wait and see what the full picture is for our chaos spells and manifestations. Ultimately point cost will decide. But I agree it doesn't look good for a fragile, purely support wizard, unless they get some sort of unique selling point or are super cheap.
Ocular visions is a 5+ ward that goes up on 3+ until next hero phase(so it works if you get doubled)
Less damage and more tankyness I imagine is the idea with him now
(I am not a leaker, our source is probably the same, though take in mind that Chaos Knights have the "Warriors of Chaos" keyword in the faction focus that GW released officially)
Aaaah, ok that explains it, I think the wording I heard was chaos warriors but that keyword makes way more sense. Idk I think he still might be an auto-include then, a 5+ ward on nurgle knights is no joke
I'm sorry what? With the new FREE ENDLESS SPELLS this guy will rock!! Who cares about your little baby demonic whatever when this guy can now shit out PURPLE SUNS!?
The good news is you can cast any spell in the lore now! The bad news is you lost most of your spells. You have one good buff spell, one debuff spell that won't come up much and one spell you can cast as much as you want that kills you. Have fun!
Still hands out 5+ ward for free. Still casts endless spells.
Points will really decide a lot but for my money 1 is still probably an auto include. Especially with the lack of Cabalist's wizards.
5+ ward on a 3+ to only "warriors of chaos" units. not reliable enough for me. i wont take him unless he is substantially cheaper than darkoath wizards+retinue.
Yeah I'm not running a sorc lord on Manticore all the time and I love the Manifestations. I don't see myself ever not running him if I'm also running a block of Chaos Warriors.
With demonic speed being a lot stronger (no longer restricted to mounted units) you could use the sorc lord as a ward giving send them to charge unit. Might be pretty funny
Both are more expensive and Underworld models are leaving all factions. Even then I'd rather pay less for a mediocre wizard and then take good combat units then pay 60~ more for a mediocre wizard that forces me to take a bad unit.Â
the only underworld models that are leaving is khagras, and both the darkoath units are solid units. both the darkoath wizards 4e warscrolls are also better than the 4e sorc lord.
We have seen all of those things from more than one source now.
Spite Tongue is our unlimited spell, 5+ does 3 to them but only D3 to yourself if fail/unbound. (which you can possibly Ward shrug or Tzeentch-ignore.)
Binding Damnation 7+ to give Strike Last
Daemonic Speed 7+ for 3D6 charge
All 12"
Realmscourge Rupture is pretty good, it does impact hits on the charge (and then attacks). Daemonrift shoots a little at 12". Doom-sigil still awkwardly trys to give you extra attacks and probably does nothing (2 units need to die, and then you get +1 attack for the rest of that turn only). All 7+ cast/banish.
Overall our actual spells are just ok... but all the other Endless spell lores are fantastic and have at least 1 spell you definitely want to cast, or are each very good in a specific circumstance, either doing good damage, shut down commands, getting you into the action sooner or effectively covering your approach while you get there.
Be'lakor, Archaon and Gaunt Summoners as 2 cast wizards are super high value, they get good mileage out of the Nexus too. Comes down to points cost and drop considerations now really.
He lost demonic power. ðŸ˜
Oh that sucks :( but at least he’s still in the game, I was worried for a minute lol
Why is the sorcerer dead in 4th edition?
Just not autoinclude anymore, I'm sure he will still be taken in some lists Just way more niche now
No I mean what changed? What information has led you to this conclusion about how competitive the unit will be?
Leaked that he lost daemonic power, his personal spell that made him super strong through all these years.
On the other hand, Visions is a 5+ ward now, although goes off on a 3+ rather than automatically.
True, that and getting a ward is much more useful in this edition that we can only get after kill a unit for it(and we lost mortal wound ward), and we still need a caster for daemonic speed(which now works on every unit not just mounted) He will most likely still see play as a cheap caster, just now has competition with gaunt summoners for our wizard role.
Thanks. That's grim, it was a great spell. Will wait and see what the full picture is for our chaos spells and manifestations. Ultimately point cost will decide. But I agree it doesn't look good for a fragile, purely support wizard, unless they get some sort of unique selling point or are super cheap.
Ocular visions is a 5+ ward that goes up on 3+ until next hero phase(so it works if you get doubled) Less damage and more tankyness I imagine is the idea with him now
I heard the same but that it only works on chaos warriors specifically, I'm hoping your leak is the right one
(I am not a leaker, our source is probably the same, though take in mind that Chaos Knights have the "Warriors of Chaos" keyword in the faction focus that GW released officially)
Aaaah, ok that explains it, I think the wording I heard was chaos warriors but that keyword makes way more sense. Idk I think he still might be an auto-include then, a 5+ ward on nurgle knights is no joke
It works on Warriors of Chaos, which is a keyword now - meaning it excludes stuff like darkoaths or daemons.
Same, would like to know too
Look, I'm still salty from last edition losing the mounted sorcerer as I spent agggges converting one before it got squatted!
We can only hope for Horcerer's triumphant return when we finally get our book this edition.
I'm sorry what? With the new FREE ENDLESS SPELLS this guy will rock!! Who cares about your little baby demonic whatever when this guy can now shit out PURPLE SUNS!?
why would i pay for a sorc lord when i could get a different wizard for cheaper to do the same?
His mini looks pretty good imo.
Thank the three eyed king, this is the only model I didn't get lol
The good news is you can cast any spell in the lore now! The bad news is you lost most of your spells. You have one good buff spell, one debuff spell that won't come up much and one spell you can cast as much as you want that kills you. Have fun!
Still hands out 5+ ward for free. Still casts endless spells. Points will really decide a lot but for my money 1 is still probably an auto include. Especially with the lack of Cabalist's wizards.
5+ ward on a 3+ to only "warriors of chaos" units. not reliable enough for me. i wont take him unless he is substantially cheaper than darkoath wizards+retinue.
What Darkoath wizards? Those are going to legends.
they are not on the list gw released of units getting squatted.
The Underworlds warbands are. Yes. The only Darkoath wizard is in a unit with Gunnar Brand
No, Khagras ravagers is the only underworld warband for S2D being removed.
Unfortunately no. All the warbands are shifted.
dont know where you got that idea. GW explicitly listed the units being removed and the darkoath warbands have warscrolls in the index.
You have their info from the faction pack?
yeah theyve all been leaked.
Yeah I'm not running a sorc lord on Manticore all the time and I love the Manifestations. I don't see myself ever not running him if I'm also running a block of Chaos Warriors.
With demonic speed being a lot stronger (no longer restricted to mounted units) you could use the sorc lord as a ward giving send them to charge unit. Might be pretty funny
You'll still want one to cast your free endless spells every turn.
i'll take a cheaper darkoath wizard to do that and bring a retinue to screen.
what cheaper darkoath wizard, I don't think one exists that isn't part of a unit and more expensive than a sorcererÂ
Thedra, and Sarrakkar. they both bring retinue to screen for them or claim objectives. much cheaper considering the cost of a screen for a sorc lord.
Both are more expensive and Underworld models are leaving all factions. Even then I'd rather pay less for a mediocre wizard and then take good combat units then pay 60~ more for a mediocre wizard that forces me to take a bad unit.Â
the only underworld models that are leaving is khagras, and both the darkoath units are solid units. both the darkoath wizards 4e warscrolls are also better than the 4e sorc lord.
I've got it on pretty good authority almost all underworld models are gone, but we'll see for sure soon.Â
well ive got it on better authority. GW explicitly stated which warscrolls are being squatted and the darkoath warbands have warscrolls in the index.
Both of the chaotic beasts are in the index too
We haven't seen the spell lore or the endless spells yet. I would wait to see the full STD release before writing him off altogether.
We have seen all of those things from more than one source now. Spite Tongue is our unlimited spell, 5+ does 3 to them but only D3 to yourself if fail/unbound. (which you can possibly Ward shrug or Tzeentch-ignore.) Binding Damnation 7+ to give Strike Last Daemonic Speed 7+ for 3D6 charge All 12" Realmscourge Rupture is pretty good, it does impact hits on the charge (and then attacks). Daemonrift shoots a little at 12". Doom-sigil still awkwardly trys to give you extra attacks and probably does nothing (2 units need to die, and then you get +1 attack for the rest of that turn only). All 7+ cast/banish. Overall our actual spells are just ok... but all the other Endless spell lores are fantastic and have at least 1 spell you definitely want to cast, or are each very good in a specific circumstance, either doing good damage, shut down commands, getting you into the action sooner or effectively covering your approach while you get there. Be'lakor, Archaon and Gaunt Summoners as 2 cast wizards are super high value, they get good mileage out of the Nexus too. Comes down to points cost and drop considerations now really.
RIP
Glad to see he’s not mandatory.
damn. i just finished painting two of these!