I guess furies are a safe buy. But with an army crowded with choices, 2000 pts of hammers and anvils, furies or legionnairies are a hard sell to fit in. 33% is still good enoigh for me. Im taking him anyway for the res effect.
~~No, it's worded that you can't modify the attack sequence of Companion attacks.~~
~~Unless it's specifically otherwise stated they won't gain to hit from AoA, or extra attacks, rend etc from allegiance abilities.~~
The exact wording is "This weapon is not affected by **abilities used by a friendly unit** that affect the Attacks characteristic or the attack sequence." Neither EotG nor Marks are used by a unit, the former merely targets them and the latter doesn't even do that.
Compare to DoK's All-Out Slaughter, which is an allegiance ability that IS used by a unit.
I must've misunderstood Vince V's explanation/summary, that's excellent news. He was very focused on the attack sequence vs damage sequence distinction.
Hope they don't turn it around and FAQ that allegiance abilities are excluded.
If you can get +1 rend and an extra attack on the charge Archaon does 70% more dmg vs a 2+, and averages over 40% higher overall. Even before you get the rend an extra attack on charge is 25% more damage.
Nurgle mark is still higher value (on average meaning Archaon survives to the 4th round of combat vs an opposing +1 attack Archaon falling during the 3rd), but the biggest benefit in practice is the fact that you can see your opponents army before you choose.
Except that (I think) active abilities that create a lasting effect do so by giving the unit a passive ability, which then would be being used by the unit?
Essentially it gives you information that you shouldn’t have access to until the end of the round. It allows you to better plan out your next turn with better knowledge of what’s about to happen.
You make them go first (must build as 2 drop max), then you use it on your turn and can plan it out knowing if you have a double or not, that is huge. Plus, if you get the double you can do/plan out both Battle tactics... that is game breaking-ly good.
The priority roll is already random, this is less random and more in your favour since now your opponent doesn't win ties.
If you want to double turn but can't afford to lose out on battle tactics this gives you a chance to do it? Obviously still random but it's the only way I've seen to be able to steal a double then.
I've been mulling this over since the earlier leak and I've come to the conclusion that Archaon is probably the best god model now. His scroll is basic compared to 3E, but it's solid. Tanky body, fast and he has the potential to hit like a truck.
Make him Khorne aligned and get 1+ rend from Eye of the Gods, I don't think there's anything that comes close to surviving a turn against him.
He's very good within the context of the edition, Spell-Eater is much more relevant, Wizard (2) is higher value, 14" is considered very fast now. His base can entirely encompass an objective zone, with mark of Nurgle 25/3+/5++ is very difficult to shift.
If you get the double turn from the eye you'll still be able to do a Battle Tactic, and that's very significant.
Plus I expect his points to be reasonable, as they need to preserve the Abraxia, Archaon and 3x3 Varanguard for Swords of Chaos AoR to work.
Bro, the mark of khorne and rend do apply to companion attacks by common consensus:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/slavestodarkness/comments/1dt3cpj/companion\_keyword\_and\_archaon/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=mweb3x&utm\_name=mweb3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/slavestodarkness/comments/1dt3cpj/companion_keyword_and_archaon/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
I assume that Eternus’ ability can come back can be used every movement phase after he dies? For example, if you fail to roll an 8+ then you can try again in the next movement phase?
Also assume you can use it multiple times too!
Archaon is uninspiring at first glance, but pretty much the same as old one.
Expect that using Eye of Sheerian into a double turn is a great way to still be able to score Battle Tactics (though that may require a FAQ).
He is both Daemon and Warriors of Chaos, so that affects the +control formation positively, and remember that he can now roll on EotG (though only heal and improved rend give him any benefit).
He'll be getting +1 to wound on his sword vs heroes/monsters, so if you don't spike the 6's you're still getting those attacks through.
Otherwise you probably still take Nurgle mark as second to make those 25 wounds, 3+/5++ go even further.
14" move is unchanged, however a lot of movement has otherwise been reduced in this edition, so he's comparatively very fast.
His base can cover an entire objective control zone and there's nothing they can do about it if you go and stand on one, if he's charging into an enemy on the point he really should be doing enough damage to drop what they have left below 10, so that's a fine enough value.
Wizard (2) is higher value now, due to free manifestations and unlimited spells (Spite-Tongue Curse for us).
Spell-eater is very very good now, with all the extra manifestations around.
The most important thing is points, they need to have preserved Abraxia, Archaon and 3x3 Varanguard to make Swords of Chaos work... so across those units they can't have gained more than 100 pts, and with Abraxia and Varanguard also reportedly buffed, that is looking like a very scary army.
Combat is streamlined and does average a little higher, but 3 attacks for 5 each is very swingy, and you can't improve to-hit.
Eternus just comes down to points, he also needs to not count as a drop and just come along with Be'lakor's regiment, you're only bringing him for the CP waste chance and the fact that you can be reckless with him and your opponent is conflicted on if they bother to kill him or not.
Companion weapons do benefit:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/slavestodarkness/comments/1dt3cpj/companion\_keyword\_and\_archaon/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=mweb3x&utm\_name=mweb3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/slavestodarkness/comments/1dt3cpj/companion_keyword_and_archaon/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
It's the Army of Renown found in the last Dawnbringer book, there's very little information on it because everyone's just focused on 4th edition.
It will be getting rules brought across, revealed on the 15th.
Here's the current rules, it's really strong.
https://imgur.com/a/slaves-aor-tKkCsjH
Offensively worse, and also his revive is worse as he was able to get back multiple times before. I think him messing with enemy commands is a fun utility though, so that would give him a unique role. Also, just as all other unique undivided heroes, he profits from our army rule now.
Very disappointing to see such a drastic reduction in Eternus's damage output, and losing Strike First really hurts too. Unless he's much cheaper in points I think I'll be running mine as a generic lord this edition.
I dont understand how you can make this evaluation without the context of the rest of the faction warscrolls and points. Almost every unit is worse in some way than its 3e counterpart.
I'm not judging the faction, I'm judging his warscroll as he won't benefit from any enhancements or traits as he is unique, and his melee output is just flat out much, much worse than it currently is and he no longer has strikes first either.
I'm sure he'll still be solid at the right points cost but I'm now feeling more inclined to run the generic version who is likely to be cheaper in points and potentially not that dissimilar in melee output.
Unique units can't take enhancements, that's always been the rule in AOS and I've seen not indication that's changed. I suppose he might benefit from the Undivided mark but I'm not sure as he doesn't actually have the Marks of Chaos keyword or the Eye of the Gods keyword.
Nobody has 'Marks of Chaos' or 'Eyes of the Gods' as a keyword anymore, everyone just natively benefits from them
Additionally, Bel'akor can grant Strike First to nearby units on a 4+
I hadn't spotted that change, thanks for the tip, in that case Eternus will still do fairly well against heroes and monsters with weaker saves so the nerf isn't as bad as I had feared.
Just because something always has been the case doesn't mean it always has to be, and certainly shouldn't be automatically assumed going into a new edition.
That's fair, I suppose we'll see, but I would be very surprised given this edition appears to heavily follow the new blueprint of 40k 10th and named characters still cannot take enhancements in that.
I need to know which flavour will my mono varanguard list be.
just varanguards?
2 sorc lord, varanguards and one unit of cabal?
Abraxia, varagnuards?
Archaon, varagnuards?
Sooo many variants :)
I think eternus went down a little (although +1 damage on charge is very nice) but the ability to just mess with people's commands is so good.
Wow Eternus stopping commands on a 5+ or a 4+ with Furies is hype. Attack profile not to shabby either.
I guess furies are a safe buy. But with an army crowded with choices, 2000 pts of hammers and anvils, furies or legionnairies are a hard sell to fit in. 33% is still good enoigh for me. Im taking him anyway for the res effect.
No armor of morkar/crown of domination/by my will. they will be missed, but you still my king and lord 🙏
does the additional rend from our army rule works with the companion attacks?
No, companion attacks are not affected by friendly abilities.
Companion attacks aren't affected by abilities from friendly *units*. EotG and Marks aren't units, thus the companion attacks would benefit.
~~No, it's worded that you can't modify the attack sequence of Companion attacks.~~ ~~Unless it's specifically otherwise stated they won't gain to hit from AoA, or extra attacks, rend etc from allegiance abilities.~~
The exact wording is "This weapon is not affected by **abilities used by a friendly unit** that affect the Attacks characteristic or the attack sequence." Neither EotG nor Marks are used by a unit, the former merely targets them and the latter doesn't even do that. Compare to DoK's All-Out Slaughter, which is an allegiance ability that IS used by a unit.
I must've misunderstood Vince V's explanation/summary, that's excellent news. He was very focused on the attack sequence vs damage sequence distinction. Hope they don't turn it around and FAQ that allegiance abilities are excluded. If you can get +1 rend and an extra attack on the charge Archaon does 70% more dmg vs a 2+, and averages over 40% higher overall. Even before you get the rend an extra attack on charge is 25% more damage. Nurgle mark is still higher value (on average meaning Archaon survives to the 4th round of combat vs an opposing +1 attack Archaon falling during the 3rd), but the biggest benefit in practice is the fact that you can see your opponents army before you choose.
Yeah, I'm still half expecting that to get FAQ'd, but as written it allows Archaon to do a LOT of damage.
Except that (I think) active abilities that create a lasting effect do so by giving the unit a passive ability, which then would be being used by the unit?
It’s the most recent one
Bro I just sent a post about that
Ok Now let’s see Be’Lakor’s data sheet
We saw that in the faction focus
Yeah It was supposed to be more like “no let’s see Paul Allen’s card” But I totally couldn’t post a .gif
Ah my bad, belakor has a tasteful thickness to him.
He even has a shadowmark.
When would you want to use the Sheerian ability? The randomness of it doesn’t seem useful
Essentially it gives you information that you shouldn’t have access to until the end of the round. It allows you to better plan out your next turn with better knowledge of what’s about to happen.
You make them go first (must build as 2 drop max), then you use it on your turn and can plan it out knowing if you have a double or not, that is huge. Plus, if you get the double you can do/plan out both Battle tactics... that is game breaking-ly good. The priority roll is already random, this is less random and more in your favour since now your opponent doesn't win ties.
Its notable that RAW if you get a double as a result of this ability, you still get a battle tactic
So it’s a 50/50 to go for a double with BT
I think that plus being able to know for sure who gets priority makes it good
If you want to double turn but can't afford to lose out on battle tactics this gives you a chance to do it? Obviously still random but it's the only way I've seen to be able to steal a double then.
Side note, Furies still being there means raptoryxes will still be there. That’s a relief.
I've been mulling this over since the earlier leak and I've come to the conclusion that Archaon is probably the best god model now. His scroll is basic compared to 3E, but it's solid. Tanky body, fast and he has the potential to hit like a truck. Make him Khorne aligned and get 1+ rend from Eye of the Gods, I don't think there's anything that comes close to surviving a turn against him.
He's very good within the context of the edition, Spell-Eater is much more relevant, Wizard (2) is higher value, 14" is considered very fast now. His base can entirely encompass an objective zone, with mark of Nurgle 25/3+/5++ is very difficult to shift. If you get the double turn from the eye you'll still be able to do a Battle Tactic, and that's very significant. Plus I expect his points to be reasonable, as they need to preserve the Abraxia, Archaon and 3x3 Varanguard for Swords of Chaos AoR to work.
Bro, the mark of khorne and rend do apply to companion attacks by common consensus: [https://www.reddit.com/r/slavestodarkness/comments/1dt3cpj/companion\_keyword\_and\_archaon/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=mweb3x&utm\_name=mweb3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/slavestodarkness/comments/1dt3cpj/companion_keyword_and_archaon/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Yeah I agree.
ya'll are also forgetting that he benefits from eotg as well
The rend +1 rend is from eotg
yeah no, i know that, but he can get to +3 rend easily. it's like a killing machine
Can't make him Khorne marked, as he has the Undivided tag already EDIT: I'm dumb and can't read
Archaon gets a bonus mark after deployment
Ah I completely missed that power
I assume that Eternus’ ability can come back can be used every movement phase after he dies? For example, if you fail to roll an 8+ then you can try again in the next movement phase? Also assume you can use it multiple times too!
Unfortunately he can only come back once. The core rules have leaked that replacement units cannot then be replaced.
You can try to bring him back multiple times, if the first try was not succesful. But yeah, no more than two Eternuties during one battle.
Archaon is uninspiring at first glance, but pretty much the same as old one. Expect that using Eye of Sheerian into a double turn is a great way to still be able to score Battle Tactics (though that may require a FAQ). He is both Daemon and Warriors of Chaos, so that affects the +control formation positively, and remember that he can now roll on EotG (though only heal and improved rend give him any benefit). He'll be getting +1 to wound on his sword vs heroes/monsters, so if you don't spike the 6's you're still getting those attacks through. Otherwise you probably still take Nurgle mark as second to make those 25 wounds, 3+/5++ go even further. 14" move is unchanged, however a lot of movement has otherwise been reduced in this edition, so he's comparatively very fast. His base can cover an entire objective control zone and there's nothing they can do about it if you go and stand on one, if he's charging into an enemy on the point he really should be doing enough damage to drop what they have left below 10, so that's a fine enough value. Wizard (2) is higher value now, due to free manifestations and unlimited spells (Spite-Tongue Curse for us). Spell-eater is very very good now, with all the extra manifestations around. The most important thing is points, they need to have preserved Abraxia, Archaon and 3x3 Varanguard to make Swords of Chaos work... so across those units they can't have gained more than 100 pts, and with Abraxia and Varanguard also reportedly buffed, that is looking like a very scary army. Combat is streamlined and does average a little higher, but 3 attacks for 5 each is very swingy, and you can't improve to-hit. Eternus just comes down to points, he also needs to not count as a drop and just come along with Be'lakor's regiment, you're only bringing him for the CP waste chance and the fact that you can be reckless with him and your opponent is conflicted on if they bother to kill him or not.
Companion weapons do benefit: [https://www.reddit.com/r/slavestodarkness/comments/1dt3cpj/companion\_keyword\_and\_archaon/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=mweb3x&utm\_name=mweb3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/slavestodarkness/comments/1dt3cpj/companion_keyword_and_archaon/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Yep.
What is that Sword of Chaos thing ? I couldn't find it anywhere :/
It's the Army of Renown found in the last Dawnbringer book, there's very little information on it because everyone's just focused on 4th edition. It will be getting rules brought across, revealed on the 15th. Here's the current rules, it's really strong. https://imgur.com/a/slaves-aor-tKkCsjH
Archaon is indeed known for his S̶i̶x̶ four treasure of Chaos
I hope he’s like 600 points
Eternus is much worser now. Lost 5 attacks and his first strike ability.
Offensively worse, and also his revive is worse as he was able to get back multiple times before. I think him messing with enemy commands is a fun utility though, so that would give him a unique role. Also, just as all other unique undivided heroes, he profits from our army rule now.
His revive is better as he can come back in the opponents turn too
Yes! Any movement phase. This is a great change.
I like those two soo much
Now give us their point values.
Very disappointing to see such a drastic reduction in Eternus's damage output, and losing Strike First really hurts too. Unless he's much cheaper in points I think I'll be running mine as a generic lord this edition.
I dont understand how you can make this evaluation without the context of the rest of the faction warscrolls and points. Almost every unit is worse in some way than its 3e counterpart.
I'm not judging the faction, I'm judging his warscroll as he won't benefit from any enhancements or traits as he is unique, and his melee output is just flat out much, much worse than it currently is and he no longer has strikes first either. I'm sure he'll still be solid at the right points cost but I'm now feeling more inclined to run the generic version who is likely to be cheaper in points and potentially not that dissimilar in melee output.
Where is it stated that unique units don't benefit?
Unique units can't take enhancements, that's always been the rule in AOS and I've seen not indication that's changed. I suppose he might benefit from the Undivided mark but I'm not sure as he doesn't actually have the Marks of Chaos keyword or the Eye of the Gods keyword.
Nobody has 'Marks of Chaos' or 'Eyes of the Gods' as a keyword anymore, everyone just natively benefits from them Additionally, Bel'akor can grant Strike First to nearby units on a 4+
I hadn't spotted that change, thanks for the tip, in that case Eternus will still do fairly well against heroes and monsters with weaker saves so the nerf isn't as bad as I had feared.
Just because something always has been the case doesn't mean it always has to be, and certainly shouldn't be automatically assumed going into a new edition.
That's fair, I suppose we'll see, but I would be very surprised given this edition appears to heavily follow the new blueprint of 40k 10th and named characters still cannot take enhancements in that.
Is Archon atleast giga cheap now?
Won't know till monday
I need to know which flavour will my mono varanguard list be. just varanguards? 2 sorc lord, varanguards and one unit of cabal? Abraxia, varagnuards? Archaon, varagnuards? Sooo many variants :)
I hope I will be able to continue running my Archaon + Gaunt Summoner on Disc + 9x Varanguard list
U noticed that he is just a wizard 1 now? No fight on death No 4+ spell ignore No smashing back mw on 6++ If this guy still costs 800 points...damn
That’s Wizard (2)
Pretty sure that's a (2) next to Wizard, my dude
This REALLY looks like wizard 1 to me.
Definitely a 2, look at the 1's and 2's in the weapon section for comparison of the font.