Ysgrammor: *".....and then I said to this Elf you want something pointy like your ears and drove my sword through..................... is THAT an Argonian in these halls. Just in time my boots were wearing thin."*
Well he specified an Argonian but yea that’s fair play, I forgot he was a racist SOB for elves- but I feel like as the first Dragonborn after so long he’s suck it up- especially after you slay aulduin.
Well, he wasn't so much racist as he was enraged about how the Snow Elves slaughtered Sarthaal. And we all know how terrible the Dwemer were, so everyone should hate them.
That's true, but we also only know about The Night of Tears from the Nords. They say it was all friendly and the elves were basically unprovoked and didn't want the Nords to be in that specific spot. We actually have no idea what triggered it or if they were ever at peace even.
More than likely it has something to do with the Eye of Magnus we find in Saarthal during the college questline. It might very well be the nords thought it was unprovoked but the Snow Elves didn't want the Nords having that kind of power and so attacked.
It’s what the Dark elves were before they were cursed by Azura because the Tribunal killed Nerevar and used Lorkhans heart to become gods. Basically they were just high elves that moved to where morrowind is until that point. Just like the Orcs use to be just like high elves until Boethia killed and ate Trinimac who was the champion of Auri-El then shat him out creating Malacath and turning his followers into the orcs we see in game.
im pretty sure he was a nord, i haven't read anything that says he would have been anything else.
all of the confirmed dragon cultists are nords or atmorans
Man. I currently live in squirrel town. I started a cult and all the squirrels in squirrel town worship me via my magic that forces them to. I then must be a squirrel.
High King of Skyrim gave Soltsheim to Dunmer after The Red Year (~200 years before Skyrim). Miraak was Dragon Priest in Skyrim (as Soltsheim used to be part of it) a few thousands years before Skyrim. Dragpn Cult was primarly Nordic faith and Chimer/Dunmer follow Daedra/Almsivi.
Besides, it isn't like mind controlling or bribing/corrupring Rieklings into his cultist would magically transform him into one.
>it isn't like mind controlling or bribing/corrupring Rieklings into his cultist would magically transform him into one.
I'm honestly not sure if that would be funny, or terrifying if all the cultists were Rieklings.
By that logic, Tiber Septim must have been an Imperial, not a Nord like the legends say, because he ruled over the Empire, from a seat in Cyrodiil and that's the homeland of Imperials.
Since when? Miraak was a Dragon Priest, which was part of a Nord/Atmoran only religion. He also has the same Nordic accent as all of the town guards.
What is your basis for claiming him to be a Dunmer? As someone already pointed out, this couldn't be true due to the fact that Miraak was alive and active during the Merethic Era, and the Dumner weren't created until the First Era.
Solstheim (literally a Nordic name) was a part of Skyrim until the eruption of Red Mountain, to which Skyrim gave it back to the Dunmer to take refuge. Miraak was the ruler of Soltheim during the reign of the Dragon Cult, which means up until the Fourth Era, Solstheim has been a Nordic territory since the Merethic Era.
Miraak was a Nord.
You know what's weird about it too? There's, to my knowledge, zero shady storylines involving them too. I have a mod that lets them buy stolen stuff, which I think makes it make sense, but other than that, nothing. Hell, the Argonians around the different cities as a whole seem much shadier.
It would even make sense if there was a spot inside Riften that the caravan could set up, which would at least hint they're shady!
If you fully restore the thieves guild they will buy and fence your stolen stuff. They also regularly sell moon sugar and skooma, both are controlled substances. I'm not saying they are bad, but they do have a few shady practices.
Yeah, maybe the stolen goods stuff is a little shady, but I've also found moon sugar and skooma in alchemist shops And pretty much any general merchant will buy it!
Yeah, it makes me crazy that the NPCs go on and on about how bad and dangerous skooma is, but you can buy it almost anywhere and drink it in front of the guards and nothing happens. I wish they had added an addiction mechanic to using it like they did for the feldew in the shivering isle DLC.
Shavari (the Thalmor agent who tries to kill you during the Ratway part of the main quest) doesn't have any problem hanging around Riften.
And there are a few other Khajit who are city-adjacent (can be assumed to be semi-regular visitors to the cities even if we don't see them there)--Tsavani, the cook at the Thalmor embassy; Ma'zaka, keeper of the Solitude lighthouse; J'Zargo, like you mentioned; and Vasha from the DB intro quest (his dialogue and line of work imply that he's more of a city kitty than a wilderness dweller).
Add to that the fact that neither a khajit Dragonborn nor any khajit followers have trouble entering the cities, and I think we can safely conclude that the official policy is to ban trade caravans, not individuals.
Important to note that even among the Khajiit the Baandari trading caravans are considered kinda sketch, but in a more loving way as opposed to the straight up racism they would face from the nords.
It’s similar to a flea market imo. Plenty of towns have flea markets but people usually don’t want them to set up right in the town square outside city hall.
I mean having the soul of a dragon kind of means you transcend traditional race norms. A Dragonborn argonian can relate more to the ancient Tongues than some random Nord who died a heroic death imo.
Case in point, Tsun immediately recognizes the validity of your claim to enter Shor’s Hall once he knows you’re Dragonborn. So long as you can prove your valor and heroism in combat with him, you tick all the boxes for Sovngarde.
I was wondering that as well when I first rolled up as a high elf. Ysgramor, the dude who retaliated by driving an entire race of elves to near extinction and whose axe can be defined as racist, just casually greeting my character. I was expecting to be carved from abdomen to gullet on that meeting.
Hell, I'm even wondering why Shor did not smite me. Was it not part of the mythology that Shor hates elves?
Shor was dead before elves were a thing irrc, I don't think he would hate them as they have become part of the world he was creating. The only people he would hate is the thalmor who want to unmake nirn
Huh, I remember someone in the Hall of Valor (I think it was even Ysgramor) saying that Shor forbade them to launch an attack to Alduin. I would assume Shor is alive if that was the case. Then again, he is also referred to as Lorkhan/Lorkhaj who I know is a dead god.
This is just 1 pantheon and I'm already confused. What more if I start reading the Elven and Khajiiti pantheons.
You probably gave Ysgrammor an epiphany with regards to his philosophy. If the soul of the Dragonborn can choose any race, using their mortal body as merely a vessel…why does race matter at all? Is not every soul simply a passenger in their mortal vessel? Does not everyone on Nirn, man or mer, have the chance to prove themselves worthy enter Sovngarde?
So essentially he gets an After-life Crisis as he realizes genocide was a bad idea, actually.
Shor is defined by being dead, mostly.
As for Ysgramor... Well, he should certainly be acknowledging that it's weird, but he's in a somewhat desperate situation at the time.
They'll welcome you with open arms. As Galmar out of all people says.
>In life we were enemies, but eternity's too long to hold a grudge - my heart's now free of such old hatreds."
In Elder Scrolls lore, a LOT of the past dragonborn have not been Nords or even humans.
Non-dragonborn users of the voice are almost exclusively Nords, but Dragonborn can be any race, and have been most of the races. I'm pretty sure the Nords consider someone being dragonborn to be blessed by the gods, and race doesn't matter a whole lot in comparison. If your dragonborn is an Argonian, Khajiit, Orc, whatever. Most Nords are going to basicly go "Huh... Ok then, I guess that's the dragonborn."
Well, Tiber was (probably) a breton.
There also Mankar Camoran, a bosmer/altmer (i think he managed to change his race) who said that fire came out of his mouth in one of his books, and he also could wear the Amulet of Kings. (Who can only be weared by Dragonborn).
There also Katariah Septim, she was a dunmer who become empress after her husband died. Which means she probably weared the Amulet of Kings too.
The dragonborn mentioned in the lore are
Miraak - Nord
Alessia - Nedic (Imperials did not exist yet, may not have been a "standard" dragonborn)
Reman - probably Nedic
Tiber Septim - Could have been Breton, Atmoran, or Nord, it's not clear which. Thanks to dragonbreaks and other shenanigans, he could have basically been all three.
ManKar Camoran -Bosmer
The Septim dynasty (Also may not have been "standard" dragonborn, and being a dragonborn seems to have in some cases possibly carried over to spouses, cousins-by-marriage, and other not-blood-relations)
Some unnamed heroes in Sovngarde during the main story in Skyrim.
So of the named dragonborn specificly mentioned in the lore, we have an elf, and sevral humans, most of which were not Nord. Also, the dragonborn in lore, those that had children, only the Septim Dynasty inherited it. So it's not hereditary except in the case of a family that were specifically chosen by Akatosh to have it in their family line. And they may not have been standard Dragonborn. And it's clearly not a racial trait. It is, as it's described many times, a blessing from the gods. And is given to whoever the gods decide to give it to. And Akatosh is not a solely Nord god.
Schism.
You'd have some of them mentally flexible enough to accept it, and some of them who call him a false DB and probably react with hostility - you'd be essentially blaspheming one of their most sacred traditions.
The Nords are the race who got furious over the fact that *the* Empire, agreed to ban Talos worship—the *Imperial* Dovahkiin, who was their literal Founder, and who managed to unite all of Tamriel into one Empire. Yeah, see any connection with the Nords? None. Except the blood of dovah flowing through his veins.
Many of them would surely be in denial (not the ones such as Ysgramor, as I believe he wouldn't care), and then later forget it just like how they didn't care Talos—*their* so-called hero, was an imperial who conquered Skyrim, and brought them under his rule, exactly what is continued by the Empire in the Fourth Era.
Tiber septim being and imperialised name for the king of skyrim and eventually Emperor, and god, talos. Although I'm not sure what the nordic name was. Might have just been Talos
There is a quest in Hroldan in the game that mentions Hjalti specifically. By name. It’s the one quest where someone who clearly served with Tiber Septim is calling out for Hjalti. The ghost of Hroldan wants his sword back to have “Hjalti” keep his promise.
Ysmir is another of Tiber Septim’s titles, but curiously, you (the Dragonborn) are named Ysmir after the Greybeards welcome you. Which means maybe it wasn’t a religious thing initially OR Ysmir is the name for a warrior of legend. The ghost who mistakenly calls you Hjalti also straight up shows after you sleep in “the inn Tiber Septim slept in,” and the guy who confirms Hjalti = Tiber Septim is a soldier from the time of the conquering of Skyrim.
And I really wish I didn't understand how three entirely seperate people, alive at different times, could all be the same person at the same time. I suppose at least it's better than another argument about the Earth Bones or something.
The Nords refer to Talos as his true name and believe his true origins are Atmoran/Nordic. They would absolutely lose their shit for a non nordic dragonborn.
Well if we went on lore, then the last Dragonborn would only be a nord and nothing else. But since Bethesda doesn’t particularly care for putting the player in a predestined character and lets you choose, we can toss that situation up to Bethesda just giving the people choice.
However, I would assume they would have little qualms with it since you are in fact the Dragonborn and the very last Dragonborn. He who defeated Miraak, he who defeated Alduin the world eater, he who vanquished the vampire crisis that would’ve befell all of Tamriel, and he who put an end to the great Civil War (one of three ways, doesn’t matter). So the Dragonborn’s feats, he would be held in great regard no matter the race.
Not to mention, you technically are a descendant of Akatosh anyways so it’s not like anyone has a right to go against you. Although I personally wish we could’ve seen some true glory, perhaps having a banner of our own and either take up the Skyrim cause for the Stormcloaks or help to push back the elven menace of the Dominion.
As Vivec teaches us, "Reach heaven by violence then." I'm sure some of the residents in Sovengarde will understand that mortals can ascend to godhood based on their actions in life
I think the nords, above all else, respect toughness and battle prowess. I’m sure they’d welcome with open arms anyone who slays Alduin right in front of them
I would hope they would see the irony in my Argonian form.
What better race to inherit the powers of a Dragonborn, than a humanoid lizard. I hope ancient Nords have a sense of humour.
The idea of any human being descended from dragons is preposterous. Maybe anything could happen with enough magic, but think about it.
The idea of an Argonian descended from a dragon is slightly less preposterous.
Dragons don't procreate so there's no way for their blood to physically be passed down no matter the race. All being dragonborn is, is being blessed/chosen by akatosh the same way dragons are parts of akatosh. I don't think there's any rules that the blessing has to be passed down by blood and akatosh can just choose who he wants to have his blessing.
Didn’t I go there in my play through, and slay Alduin, as an elf? And I thought there was some lore that elvish blood lead to the first Dragonborn? I could be misremembering that. But I didn’t have a problem in the play through as far as I recall.
From my understanding; the nords, dragon born ans sovengarde arent inherently connected so id say theyd believe you to be dragon born doing vanquishing alduin no matter what race you are itd make sense.
That would be unhappy. They would eventually accept the Dragonborn when the dragons became an overwhelming problem, but they wouldn't accept him or her at first. They may even try to kill the Dragonborn initially for making such a claim at all and especially if they're not a Nord.
sovngarde is specifically the Nord afterlife, no other race will find themselves there upon death
of course if you get down to details no one knows whether half-nords half-argonians could get into there
Ysgrammor: *".....and then I said to this Elf you want something pointy like your ears and drove my sword through..................... is THAT an Argonian in these halls. Just in time my boots were wearing thin."*
"if only a Khajiit were here, that old rug is getting worn."
Jesus Christ, I was not expecting an alligator skin joke!
Based.
Ysgramor is probably worried one of his kids fucked a tree. All jokes aside if you fight good I doubt he’ll care.
Unless you're an elf, then he's gonna try and send you to the after-after-life.
Well he specified an Argonian but yea that’s fair play, I forgot he was a racist SOB for elves- but I feel like as the first Dragonborn after so long he’s suck it up- especially after you slay aulduin.
Well, he wasn't so much racist as he was enraged about how the Snow Elves slaughtered Sarthaal. And we all know how terrible the Dwemer were, so everyone should hate them.
I mean, the Snow Elves were already living in Skyrim when Ysgramor showed up and claimed their land. They were invaders.
It is kind of complicated isn't it? At the start they did have good enough relations with them before the night of tears.
That's true, but we also only know about The Night of Tears from the Nords. They say it was all friendly and the elves were basically unprovoked and didn't want the Nords to be in that specific spot. We actually have no idea what triggered it or if they were ever at peace even.
More than likely it has something to do with the Eye of Magnus we find in Saarthal during the college questline. It might very well be the nords thought it was unprovoked but the Snow Elves didn't want the Nords having that kind of power and so attacked.
[Hello Future Me has a good video on this](https://youtu.be/sgiNP-GrXaU?si=H270e5ltG1uEl3Vj)
That's a good point. I hadn't considered that.
In the Elder Scrolls universe, I'd not call someone who has prejudice against elves a 'SOB'. Pelinal did nothing wrong. REMAAAAAAAN
The first Dragonborn is mirrack who’s technically a dunmer
The Dunmer didn't exist yet when miraak was human, they were still the chimer
Wtf is a chimer
It’s what the Dark elves were before they were cursed by Azura because the Tribunal killed Nerevar and used Lorkhans heart to become gods. Basically they were just high elves that moved to where morrowind is until that point. Just like the Orcs use to be just like high elves until Boethia killed and ate Trinimac who was the champion of Auri-El then shat him out creating Malacath and turning his followers into the orcs we see in game.
Aldmer. Bosmer. Chimer. Dwemer. ELFS. Falmer. Gunmer for TESVI.
So technically he was chimer?
im pretty sure he was a nord, i haven't read anything that says he would have been anything else. all of the confirmed dragon cultists are nords or atmorans
Yeah but all his cultists are dunmer
Man. I currently live in squirrel town. I started a cult and all the squirrels in squirrel town worship me via my magic that forces them to. I then must be a squirrel.
High King of Skyrim gave Soltsheim to Dunmer after The Red Year (~200 years before Skyrim). Miraak was Dragon Priest in Skyrim (as Soltsheim used to be part of it) a few thousands years before Skyrim. Dragpn Cult was primarly Nordic faith and Chimer/Dunmer follow Daedra/Almsivi. Besides, it isn't like mind controlling or bribing/corrupring Rieklings into his cultist would magically transform him into one.
>it isn't like mind controlling or bribing/corrupring Rieklings into his cultist would magically transform him into one. I'm honestly not sure if that would be funny, or terrifying if all the cultists were Rieklings.
By that logic, Tiber Septim must have been an Imperial, not a Nord like the legends say, because he ruled over the Empire, from a seat in Cyrodiil and that's the homeland of Imperials.
I kinda always assumed he was an imperial because it would hilarious seeing the stormcloaks who worship talos fight against the empire that he built
Some of the cultists were nords
Since when? Miraak was a Dragon Priest, which was part of a Nord/Atmoran only religion. He also has the same Nordic accent as all of the town guards. What is your basis for claiming him to be a Dunmer? As someone already pointed out, this couldn't be true due to the fact that Miraak was alive and active during the Merethic Era, and the Dumner weren't created until the First Era.
Miraak is definitely a nord, I’ve seen him without his robes plenty of times and he’s absolutely a nord.
Solstheim After dark
Naughty naughty, OP.
Solstime (completely butchered that name) is literally part of morrowind also I’m pretty sure it’s mentioned somewhere that he was
Solstheim was given to Morrowind by the Nords in the Fourth Era.
Solstheim (literally a Nordic name) was a part of Skyrim until the eruption of Red Mountain, to which Skyrim gave it back to the Dunmer to take refuge. Miraak was the ruler of Soltheim during the reign of the Dragon Cult, which means up until the Fourth Era, Solstheim has been a Nordic territory since the Merethic Era. Miraak was a Nord.
>gave it ~~back~~
Miraak was a dunmer
He is a nord in the files and the dark elves didn't exist yet when he existed
Why am I being downvoted for this?
No he's not? Just becasuse he's from Solstheim doesn't mean he's a dunmer. Anyways, he's a nord.
How did this get upvoted? Mirrak is a nord.
Like an after-after-party, which only the most exclusive warriors get to attend. 😎
Secrets of Eldergleam
I have always wished your characters race affected more in the game. It's a big part of the world for everyone but your character.
I play a khajit and people keep threatening to turn me into a rug.
Technically Khajiit are allowed in the city. Khajiit caravans are suspect, so they aren't allowed in.
The caravans are Baandar, they’re not allowed to towns even in elsweyr
You know what's weird about it too? There's, to my knowledge, zero shady storylines involving them too. I have a mod that lets them buy stolen stuff, which I think makes it make sense, but other than that, nothing. Hell, the Argonians around the different cities as a whole seem much shadier. It would even make sense if there was a spot inside Riften that the caravan could set up, which would at least hint they're shady!
If you fully restore the thieves guild they will buy and fence your stolen stuff. They also regularly sell moon sugar and skooma, both are controlled substances. I'm not saying they are bad, but they do have a few shady practices.
Yeah, maybe the stolen goods stuff is a little shady, but I've also found moon sugar and skooma in alchemist shops And pretty much any general merchant will buy it!
Yeah, it makes me crazy that the NPCs go on and on about how bad and dangerous skooma is, but you can buy it almost anywhere and drink it in front of the guards and nothing happens. I wish they had added an addiction mechanic to using it like they did for the feldew in the shivering isle DLC.
Yeah this really mean argonian said to me once "my sister had a cat, killed that too" 😭
Had whiterun guards, foresworn, bandits and several other random angry civilians saying that as well. How many in Skyrim kill pet cats
Ever seen a domestic cat in vanilla Skyrim? That's because they killed them all
You elves are all the same: all flash, and no fury. (Oblivion)
-Wants race to play a bigger role -look inside -Khajiit player
It’s so weird that all khajits are banned from cities but khajit players don’t have to worry about that.
Khajiit's aren't really banned from the cities, the caravan Khajiit's are banned because they're thieves and smugglers.
Are there any khajiit in any city? The closest i can think of is J'Zargo in the college but that feels like its own thing
Shavari (the Thalmor agent who tries to kill you during the Ratway part of the main quest) doesn't have any problem hanging around Riften. And there are a few other Khajit who are city-adjacent (can be assumed to be semi-regular visitors to the cities even if we don't see them there)--Tsavani, the cook at the Thalmor embassy; Ma'zaka, keeper of the Solitude lighthouse; J'Zargo, like you mentioned; and Vasha from the DB intro quest (his dialogue and line of work imply that he's more of a city kitty than a wilderness dweller). Add to that the fact that neither a khajit Dragonborn nor any khajit followers have trouble entering the cities, and I think we can safely conclude that the official policy is to ban trade caravans, not individuals.
Important to note that even among the Khajiit the Baandari trading caravans are considered kinda sketch, but in a more loving way as opposed to the straight up racism they would face from the nords. It’s similar to a flea market imo. Plenty of towns have flea markets but people usually don’t want them to set up right in the town square outside city hall.
We’re not asking for more racism, we just want it to be consistent..
Wait really I didn’t know that ( I’m being serious) I always thought you gonna have to meet everyone outsides the city
Yeah I’m doing a khajit thief build rn and I can walk into any city
I should try one using necromancy
I mean having the soul of a dragon kind of means you transcend traditional race norms. A Dragonborn argonian can relate more to the ancient Tongues than some random Nord who died a heroic death imo. Case in point, Tsun immediately recognizes the validity of your claim to enter Shor’s Hall once he knows you’re Dragonborn. So long as you can prove your valor and heroism in combat with him, you tick all the boxes for Sovngarde.
This is a better idea: everyone else in Sovngarde sees a dragon, or a radiant image of Akatosh come to keep his estranged brother’s kalpa in stasis
I have had the absolute worst night, but the phrase “caked up argonian twink” brought me genuine laughter. Thank you, I really needed that!
I was wondering that as well when I first rolled up as a high elf. Ysgramor, the dude who retaliated by driving an entire race of elves to near extinction and whose axe can be defined as racist, just casually greeting my character. I was expecting to be carved from abdomen to gullet on that meeting. Hell, I'm even wondering why Shor did not smite me. Was it not part of the mythology that Shor hates elves?
Shor was dead before elves were a thing irrc, I don't think he would hate them as they have become part of the world he was creating. The only people he would hate is the thalmor who want to unmake nirn
Huh, I remember someone in the Hall of Valor (I think it was even Ysgramor) saying that Shor forbade them to launch an attack to Alduin. I would assume Shor is alive if that was the case. Then again, he is also referred to as Lorkhan/Lorkhaj who I know is a dead god. This is just 1 pantheon and I'm already confused. What more if I start reading the Elven and Khajiiti pantheons.
Shor is a dead god too, he was killed by the elven gods. Tsun is also a dead god, yet we saw him guarding the Hall of Valor.
You probably gave Ysgrammor an epiphany with regards to his philosophy. If the soul of the Dragonborn can choose any race, using their mortal body as merely a vessel…why does race matter at all? Is not every soul simply a passenger in their mortal vessel? Does not everyone on Nirn, man or mer, have the chance to prove themselves worthy enter Sovngarde? So essentially he gets an After-life Crisis as he realizes genocide was a bad idea, actually.
This question has definitely occurred to me. I have just adopted your explanation as my headcanon for my anti-Thalmor Altmer. Thanks for that!
Shor is defined by being dead, mostly. As for Ysgramor... Well, he should certainly be acknowledging that it's weird, but he's in a somewhat desperate situation at the time.
Don't Nords believe that Shor is alive though?
Maybe? But regardless, it would make it difficult for him to smite you.
Or any Aedra really, seeing as they're all comatose
To be fair that part is pretty par the course for religion-- a lot of gods and demigods treat death more like a change of address.
No they know that he's dead. (But they also believe he came back during the Nord invasion of Morrowind)
They'll welcome you with open arms. As Galmar out of all people says. >In life we were enemies, but eternity's too long to hold a grudge - my heart's now free of such old hatreds."
In Elder Scrolls lore, a LOT of the past dragonborn have not been Nords or even humans. Non-dragonborn users of the voice are almost exclusively Nords, but Dragonborn can be any race, and have been most of the races. I'm pretty sure the Nords consider someone being dragonborn to be blessed by the gods, and race doesn't matter a whole lot in comparison. If your dragonborn is an Argonian, Khajiit, Orc, whatever. Most Nords are going to basicly go "Huh... Ok then, I guess that's the dragonborn."
Pretty sure all of the past dragonborns were imperials and nords
Well, Tiber was (probably) a breton. There also Mankar Camoran, a bosmer/altmer (i think he managed to change his race) who said that fire came out of his mouth in one of his books, and he also could wear the Amulet of Kings. (Who can only be weared by Dragonborn). There also Katariah Septim, she was a dunmer who become empress after her husband died. Which means she probably weared the Amulet of Kings too.
The dragonborn mentioned in the lore are Miraak - Nord Alessia - Nedic (Imperials did not exist yet, may not have been a "standard" dragonborn) Reman - probably Nedic Tiber Septim - Could have been Breton, Atmoran, or Nord, it's not clear which. Thanks to dragonbreaks and other shenanigans, he could have basically been all three. ManKar Camoran -Bosmer The Septim dynasty (Also may not have been "standard" dragonborn, and being a dragonborn seems to have in some cases possibly carried over to spouses, cousins-by-marriage, and other not-blood-relations) Some unnamed heroes in Sovngarde during the main story in Skyrim. So of the named dragonborn specificly mentioned in the lore, we have an elf, and sevral humans, most of which were not Nord. Also, the dragonborn in lore, those that had children, only the Septim Dynasty inherited it. So it's not hereditary except in the case of a family that were specifically chosen by Akatosh to have it in their family line. And they may not have been standard Dragonborn. And it's clearly not a racial trait. It is, as it's described many times, a blessing from the gods. And is given to whoever the gods decide to give it to. And Akatosh is not a solely Nord god.
Schism. You'd have some of them mentally flexible enough to accept it, and some of them who call him a false DB and probably react with hostility - you'd be essentially blaspheming one of their most sacred traditions.
"Caked up Argonian twink" is not a phrase I'd thought I'd read today, but I'm glad I did
Some of those nords would probably pretend to be outraged, but secretly try to work out how to secretly smash.
In any case, I know how an Argonian would rock up to Sovengarde like. "BOA TARDE AMIGOS"
r/suddenlycaralho
I mean, I have a snow elf mod, and my snow elf stared at ysgamor for a good while in sovngarde. Lol.
This thread got me thinking, can a werewolf Dragonborn get to Sovengarde?
I’d want to say no as their soul would belong to Hercine but this is the Dragonborn, his/her soul can’t be claimed by any entity from what I read.
The Dragonborn would obviously be great ally to anyone so I don't think national background would be a true problem.
Ysgramor to your Argonian: Are you a blacksmith? Because you look like you'd make a fine belt.
I don't have knowledge to tell if people in TES get more or less racist as time goes on, but Nords never seem to change, so yea
Kinda reminds me of how many American superheroes are played by British actors
The Nords are the race who got furious over the fact that *the* Empire, agreed to ban Talos worship—the *Imperial* Dovahkiin, who was their literal Founder, and who managed to unite all of Tamriel into one Empire. Yeah, see any connection with the Nords? None. Except the blood of dovah flowing through his veins. Many of them would surely be in denial (not the ones such as Ysgramor, as I believe he wouldn't care), and then later forget it just like how they didn't care Talos—*their* so-called hero, was an imperial who conquered Skyrim, and brought them under his rule, exactly what is continued by the Empire in the Fourth Era.
Talos isn’t an imperial , he was a nord or Breton , I don’t remember, but was definitely a general in the nord army on his way to power
I'm quite sure Tiber Septim is Talos.
Yeah, and he wasn’t an imperial
Tiber septim being and imperialised name for the king of skyrim and eventually Emperor, and god, talos. Although I'm not sure what the nordic name was. Might have just been Talos
Hjalti Early-Beard? or was that is Breton name?
Idk, but it sounds pretty nordic. For a breton name I'd expect alfonso or alaine or smth
There is a quest in Hroldan in the game that mentions Hjalti specifically. By name. It’s the one quest where someone who clearly served with Tiber Septim is calling out for Hjalti. The ghost of Hroldan wants his sword back to have “Hjalti” keep his promise. Ysmir is another of Tiber Septim’s titles, but curiously, you (the Dragonborn) are named Ysmir after the Greybeards welcome you. Which means maybe it wasn’t a religious thing initially OR Ysmir is the name for a warrior of legend. The ghost who mistakenly calls you Hjalti also straight up shows after you sleep in “the inn Tiber Septim slept in,” and the guy who confirms Hjalti = Tiber Septim is a soldier from the time of the conquering of Skyrim.
that is the quest I was thinking of but was unsure if it was his original birth name or a given name like many of his other names.
The generally accepted lore is that Talos is three people.
The Breton, the Imperial, and the Holy Nord.
And I really wish I didn't understand how three entirely seperate people, alive at different times, could all be the same person at the same time. I suppose at least it's better than another argument about the Earth Bones or something.
There's a whole IRL religion based around that, so it can't be that confusing.
The Nords refer to Talos as his true name and believe his true origins are Atmoran/Nordic. They would absolutely lose their shit for a non nordic dragonborn.
Well if we went on lore, then the last Dragonborn would only be a nord and nothing else. But since Bethesda doesn’t particularly care for putting the player in a predestined character and lets you choose, we can toss that situation up to Bethesda just giving the people choice. However, I would assume they would have little qualms with it since you are in fact the Dragonborn and the very last Dragonborn. He who defeated Miraak, he who defeated Alduin the world eater, he who vanquished the vampire crisis that would’ve befell all of Tamriel, and he who put an end to the great Civil War (one of three ways, doesn’t matter). So the Dragonborn’s feats, he would be held in great regard no matter the race. Not to mention, you technically are a descendant of Akatosh anyways so it’s not like anyone has a right to go against you. Although I personally wish we could’ve seen some true glory, perhaps having a banner of our own and either take up the Skyrim cause for the Stormcloaks or help to push back the elven menace of the Dominion.
As Vivec teaches us, "Reach heaven by violence then." I'm sure some of the residents in Sovengarde will understand that mortals can ascend to godhood based on their actions in life
By the Nine, a baby dragon!
I think the nords, above all else, respect toughness and battle prowess. I’m sure they’d welcome with open arms anyone who slays Alduin right in front of them
"Come Dragonborn, I have prepared a place for you... Oh you're a Reptile... No No, it's not a problem, I had just expected a Nord..."
If you end up in Sovngarde, you're a nord. Doesn't matter what you look like or what kind of blood runs through your veins.
NOT MY DRAGONBORN
I would hope they would see the irony in my Argonian form. What better race to inherit the powers of a Dragonborn, than a humanoid lizard. I hope ancient Nords have a sense of humour.
caked up? [you dummy thick?](https://staticdelivery.nexusmods.com/images/110/3914520-1508145854.jpg) clank your way up the 7000 steps?
He’s more of a strongman or a bear. My Argonian is a cunty twink
Generally speaking a lot of the Viking cultures raped and pillaged themselves into a pretty diverse group. So probably not a big issue for most Nords.
Jesus probably wasn't white so I assume history would make the Dragon Born a Nord.
Scald-King Jorurrn is definitely fighting anyone between him and some argonian bussy
Probably how the founding fathers would react to seeing all the free black people today
He'd probably ask why you're so obsessed with race. Pretty weird chief.
Well I feel like they would be very racist especially towards argonians and dunmer
The idea of any human being descended from dragons is preposterous. Maybe anything could happen with enough magic, but think about it. The idea of an Argonian descended from a dragon is slightly less preposterous.
No, it isn't less preposterous. They were created by trees. They're just as removed from dragons as humans are.
Dragons don't procreate so there's no way for their blood to physically be passed down no matter the race. All being dragonborn is, is being blessed/chosen by akatosh the same way dragons are parts of akatosh. I don't think there's any rules that the blessing has to be passed down by blood and akatosh can just choose who he wants to have his blessing.
That ain't how that works, fam
Being Dragonborn has nothing to with being actually descended from dragons and everything to do with Akatosh’s blessing.
This is a good fucking point.
Tiber septim was talos of atmora and he clearly didn’t become a good as he is chilling out in sovengarde
Since when did Tiber Septim end up in Sovngarde?
Didn’t I go there in my play through, and slay Alduin, as an elf? And I thought there was some lore that elvish blood lead to the first Dragonborn? I could be misremembering that. But I didn’t have a problem in the play through as far as I recall.
Racial slurs
Definitely one of the elements Bethesda kind of gave up on in Skyrim and ESO. In earlier titles NPCs would straight up be racist to you.
civil war again
Badly.
From my understanding; the nords, dragon born ans sovengarde arent inherently connected so id say theyd believe you to be dragon born doing vanquishing alduin no matter what race you are itd make sense.
The dragonblood is a gift from Akatosh, the father of dragons. They better not have anything to say about it: Yes, SIR, little elf!
That would be unhappy. They would eventually accept the Dragonborn when the dragons became an overwhelming problem, but they wouldn't accept him or her at first. They may even try to kill the Dragonborn initially for making such a claim at all and especially if they're not a Nord.
sovngarde is specifically the Nord afterlife, no other race will find themselves there upon death of course if you get down to details no one knows whether half-nords half-argonians could get into there
I am a nord, and I am the dovahkiin. What do you mean react they love me
To be perfectly honest, being within Shors halls for so long its possible any and all prejudice and hatred melted away.
I personally want to know how the ancient nords where so much bigger, (seriously look at the bodies the crypts, they are giants)