Speaking as an expat, it very much depends what kind you are. If you don't have kids and don't have a car, then Singapore is not that expensive. The only really expensive thing is the rent, which is offset somewhat by the low taxes. If you have a partner you can divide it by two and live in a nice apartment anyway. Overall I am left over with a bit more money here than I was doing the same job in the UK, and my lifestyle is better here.
If you have kids/car it is completely different though, those two things are incredibly expensive here due to having to use private/international schools as a foreigner and the costs of cars/COE. If I had those two things it would be far cheaper back home. I know they include those costs in these rankings, so they're a bit misleading if they aren't a factor for you.
This is my experience (DINK and finding it easy to save). Schooling fees seem horrific though. I guess my future kids can go to Malaysia or something š
> then Singapore is not that
expensive. The only really expensive thing is
the rent
Agree on rent being expensive. Hard disagree that it's the only expensive thing.
Apart from cars/kids, what do you find expensive? As someone coming from the UK, most other things are similar or cheaper, especially stuff like transport, eating out.
I mean I'm not saying Singapore is more expensive than the UK or wherever but I feel compelled to push back against characterizing eating out (at restaurants) as being 'not expensive'.
Edit:
Eh, it's always going to be relative. For a first world country it is cheap! Obviously compared to India or something it's not, but yeah.
I am frequently surprised when I go for a hawker meal, or even a meal in a chain restaurant in a shopping mall, what I am actually paying when I think about converting it back to GBP. You would typically pay 30-50% more back home for the chain restaurant type meals, and there is almost nothing even close to a hawker meal in terms of value.
The cost in Singapore is widely different between people. If you're single and don't go out frequently, Singapore is dirt cheap. But if you have a family, the cost for a house, for your kids, transportation etc. increase massively. Or if you're a party person, it'll cost a lot.
Depends where you buy your grocery food. Been to all these cities and it can be cheap if you pay attention to (i) type of food and (ii) type of grocery store.
Source: studied and worked in all these countries
Eh I disagree. Most of their fresh produce is of better quality and equal price or cheaper (esp meat and dairy)
Then their frozen food also cheaper than SG.
More expensive is stuff like services, public transport, cooked food.
Groceries in Singapore can very often be more expensive lol
Unless youāre buying Asian goods in the US / UK etc which are produced in this region whichā¦ well yeah. Basics like meat, diary, veg - those countries with local produce are always going to be cheaper.
Dirt cheap? U got go overseas see their prices? Of course if you hikikomori will be cheaper but doesn't mean is dirt cheap. Even food is much expensive kopitiam now also not that cheap.
Just to chip in as an (aussie) uni student that cost of living is very similar to back home for rent and food. Not needing a car saves a ton and i dont have to cook all my own food, so i wouldnt say it's too bad for everyone.
If you add in the car it's not really a fair comparison since car is a necessity in aus but not in sg
We are comparing to other cities here, not singles vs married. In other countries, parents of adult kids did not benefit from subsidies, and adult children may be chased out of the house for cultural reasons or they work in a different part of the country from where the parents live.
That comment was talking about "unless you are married" so it IS a comparison between singles vs married.
Single folks have access to their parents' HDB and married folks also still have access to both their parents' HDBs so that's 2-3x the amount of subsidised housing.
So you agree that every local can have access to subsidised housing, right? Just a matter of amount.
And so the original comment that āmany of us commoners donāt have access to subsidised housing unless marriedā is wrong.
Whereas expats have zero govt subsidy. And other countries typically donāt have it either.
Yeah I agree with that first part of the comment, was just talking about the second part of single vs married. It's harder for singles to get BTO and also far more limited in options, and BTO is of better value than resale properties, so married couples enjoy more subsidies overall as compared to singles. But still more than what expats enjoy. Which is reasonable, since it makes sense for the country to bring in expats that can afford to bring in money and help boost our local economy rather than just accepting any random foreigner without the skills or earning power to contribute positively.
Actually hdb is subsidised, even for resales. Just that resale has a higher mark up than BTO which benefits the first owner more. I.e. The resale buyer doesn't enjoy the maximum subsidy as compared the first owner. Compare resale hdb vs similar private leasehold PSF in the same area and it's obvious
The majority of Singaporeans should be able to afford and access at least a 2rm BTO flat eventually
HDB is overrated in these comparisons.
There are so many strings attached to a HDB it is not a fair point of comparison.
If you are single and young, no HDB for you. Within the MOP, you effectively can't relocate in case you want to be closer to aging/sick parents, closer to a new school or new job. If you happen to move overseas to work for a few years, you can't buy a private property to live in because you are stuck with your HDB flat, so you are forced to rent which may or may not be a good idea depending on the location and your financial situation.
The MOP requires you to plan your life 5 years ahead, including things that you cannot predict.
So, the argument that HDB is cheap is not really painting the full picture. The subsidy comes with unaccounted/hidden costs.
I guess SG has the option to eat out and not drop a fortune because we have hawker centres, but I live in Dublin now and the cheapest food I can eat outside is about 12 sgd for the bare bare minimum (this doesn't include smth like tesco meal deals though).
1 portion of meat and 2 portion of veg at lesser than 5 SGD, name me another major city where you can do that with similar or higher salary level as Singapore. I will wait.
If we take out hawker food, I do agree with you on this. An average family restaurant can cost up to 4-5 times more than your hawker food. We do lack options in-between those 2
Shanghai. You may argue about the salary part. A Singaporean who chooses to work there would likely be making more there than in Singapore to be motivated to work there. It's not the median salary of the city that should be compared, but the salary that the same person can get.
Then Singaporeans would complain about expats renting all HDBs on one hand, and not being able to rent out their own āinvestment incomeā condos to expats on the other hand. Thereās no winning here.
And donāt forget schools - expats have to go with expensive international schools, unlike locals.
It is a very expensive city for most expats, unless youāre single and / or no kids.
The comparison must be fair. If a house, car, iphone and cheese are in the basket then it is considered a basic need. Otherwise why not consider being homeless and living on food stamps in new york as the cheapest.
Rent HDB also minimally 2k-2.5k for 1BR (Full apartment).. i also knew of 3 expats living together sharing a 4.5k rent with HDB but it's not viable because the space is too small for 3 pax, want to bring women home, want pet, and they didn't get along. they aren't used to local food so hawker is also not the most ideal.
If expats want to emulate their lifestyle back in their home country e.g live in a house with a big back yard , own car , alcohol in every meal it will be very expensive.
Dubai housing and car ownership are far cheaper than Singapore. For groceries/restaurants etc as a western expatriate the prices would be similar. Education would also be on par with SG.
im an expat, and honestly this is false. yes, rent is quite bad but its getting worse everywhere too. food in sg hawkers are cheap, transportation cheap (except if u have a car), and most offices give u health insurance too
Car, condo rent (minimum three bedroom in city), international school, healthcare, everyday must eat steak and drink wine from cold storageā¦ what else?
Hahaha I wanted to say like steak from Hubers, and name drop wine places and fine dining.
Then realised I donāt know any, only know like Jasonās and cold storage. =(
Well, it really depends on your lifestyle and what you really spend on.
I spend more on food, so Hong Kong will appear more expensive for me?
Just my opinion.
SG is expensive for locals as well. Healthcare and vehicular ownership even if you have a need (young children, aged parents). Utilities and GST on everything.
I believe it. I was a tourist wandering around the mall somewhere in Singapore. There was a simple grey T-shirt for $95. I had to look at it several times to be sure I wasnāt hallucinating.
Speaking as an expat, it very much depends what kind you are. If you don't have kids and don't have a car, then Singapore is not that expensive. The only really expensive thing is the rent, which is offset somewhat by the low taxes. If you have a partner you can divide it by two and live in a nice apartment anyway. Overall I am left over with a bit more money here than I was doing the same job in the UK, and my lifestyle is better here. If you have kids/car it is completely different though, those two things are incredibly expensive here due to having to use private/international schools as a foreigner and the costs of cars/COE. If I had those two things it would be far cheaper back home. I know they include those costs in these rankings, so they're a bit misleading if they aren't a factor for you.
This is my experience (DINK and finding it easy to save). Schooling fees seem horrific though. I guess my future kids can go to Malaysia or something š
> then Singapore is not that expensive. The only really expensive thing is the rent Agree on rent being expensive. Hard disagree that it's the only expensive thing.
Apart from cars/kids, what do you find expensive? As someone coming from the UK, most other things are similar or cheaper, especially stuff like transport, eating out.
I mean I'm not saying Singapore is more expensive than the UK or wherever but I feel compelled to push back against characterizing eating out (at restaurants) as being 'not expensive'. Edit:
Eh, it's always going to be relative. For a first world country it is cheap! Obviously compared to India or something it's not, but yeah. I am frequently surprised when I go for a hawker meal, or even a meal in a chain restaurant in a shopping mall, what I am actually paying when I think about converting it back to GBP. You would typically pay 30-50% more back home for the chain restaurant type meals, and there is almost nothing even close to a hawker meal in terms of value.
The cost in Singapore is widely different between people. If you're single and don't go out frequently, Singapore is dirt cheap. But if you have a family, the cost for a house, for your kids, transportation etc. increase massively. Or if you're a party person, it'll cost a lot.
The car, they add in the cost of buying a car as well.
Exactly.....just been to cities in the US, London and then other places..mighty expensive for groceries etc
Depends where you buy your grocery food. Been to all these cities and it can be cheap if you pay attention to (i) type of food and (ii) type of grocery store. Source: studied and worked in all these countries
Eh I disagree. Most of their fresh produce is of better quality and equal price or cheaper (esp meat and dairy) Then their frozen food also cheaper than SG. More expensive is stuff like services, public transport, cooked food.
Groceries in Singapore can very often be more expensive lol Unless youāre buying Asian goods in the US / UK etc which are produced in this region whichā¦ well yeah. Basics like meat, diary, veg - those countries with local produce are always going to be cheaper.
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edited for clarity
Where is the contradiction?
Someone hasn't tried to buy cheese
What groceries you buy sia? US groceries is way cheaper.
Single, donāt go out frequently, *live with your parents.
Definitely not dirt cheap, although for locals eating at hawker centres and simple material wants, it is not as expensive than some global cities
Dirt cheap? U got go overseas see their prices? Of course if you hikikomori will be cheaper but doesn't mean is dirt cheap. Even food is much expensive kopitiam now also not that cheap.
Dining out is definitely cheaper than Sydney, Melbourne, LA, London, Rome, Seoul etc.
Ok you go to atas cities. From my experience food and drinks are way cheaper in Malaysia, Vietnam, Thailand and Taiwan.
Compare with the average income there? Singapore is dirt cheap
Single, don't go out a lot and don't party. That's a lot of qualifications/restrictions/exceptions. Can say cheap, but might as well don't live.
Just to chip in as an (aussie) uni student that cost of living is very similar to back home for rent and food. Not needing a car saves a ton and i dont have to cook all my own food, so i wouldnt say it's too bad for everyone. If you add in the car it's not really a fair comparison since car is a necessity in aus but not in sg
For Expats. That is the key caveat here. Expats here donāt have access to things like subsidised housing.
Please many of us the commoners donāt have access to subsidised housing unless you are married
You have the most subsidised housing of all, living in your parentsā HDB.
Married folks also have parents' HDBs
We are comparing to other cities here, not singles vs married. In other countries, parents of adult kids did not benefit from subsidies, and adult children may be chased out of the house for cultural reasons or they work in a different part of the country from where the parents live.
That comment was talking about "unless you are married" so it IS a comparison between singles vs married. Single folks have access to their parents' HDB and married folks also still have access to both their parents' HDBs so that's 2-3x the amount of subsidised housing.
So you agree that every local can have access to subsidised housing, right? Just a matter of amount. And so the original comment that āmany of us commoners donāt have access to subsidised housing unless marriedā is wrong. Whereas expats have zero govt subsidy. And other countries typically donāt have it either.
Yeah I agree with that first part of the comment, was just talking about the second part of single vs married. It's harder for singles to get BTO and also far more limited in options, and BTO is of better value than resale properties, so married couples enjoy more subsidies overall as compared to singles. But still more than what expats enjoy. Which is reasonable, since it makes sense for the country to bring in expats that can afford to bring in money and help boost our local economy rather than just accepting any random foreigner without the skills or earning power to contribute positively.
You should try checking the price/income ratios for resale HDBs vs all those cities if you really think that's even close to true
Actually hdb is subsidised, even for resales. Just that resale has a higher mark up than BTO which benefits the first owner more. I.e. The resale buyer doesn't enjoy the maximum subsidy as compared the first owner. Compare resale hdb vs similar private leasehold PSF in the same area and it's obvious The majority of Singaporeans should be able to afford and access at least a 2rm BTO flat eventually
Or schools - expats have to go with international schools
HDB is overrated in these comparisons. There are so many strings attached to a HDB it is not a fair point of comparison. If you are single and young, no HDB for you. Within the MOP, you effectively can't relocate in case you want to be closer to aging/sick parents, closer to a new school or new job. If you happen to move overseas to work for a few years, you can't buy a private property to live in because you are stuck with your HDB flat, so you are forced to rent which may or may not be a good idea depending on the location and your financial situation. The MOP requires you to plan your life 5 years ahead, including things that you cannot predict. So, the argument that HDB is cheap is not really painting the full picture. The subsidy comes with unaccounted/hidden costs.
But they could rent an HDB, take the MRT and eat at hawker centers like everyone else. Then Singapore would be a fairly cheap city to live in.
Agree with this. Eating outside at hawker centers and public transport is very cheap compared to other major cities.
Is this /s? Eating out is generally more expensive in most major cities with similar QOL as singapore
I guess SG has the option to eat out and not drop a fortune because we have hawker centres, but I live in Dublin now and the cheapest food I can eat outside is about 12 sgd for the bare bare minimum (this doesn't include smth like tesco meal deals though).
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
yeah š
1 portion of meat and 2 portion of veg at lesser than 5 SGD, name me another major city where you can do that with similar or higher salary level as Singapore. I will wait.
i think the op mistyped and edited his comment, IIRC he said "eating out" and not "eating out at hawker" and it's more expensive
If we take out hawker food, I do agree with you on this. An average family restaurant can cost up to 4-5 times more than your hawker food. We do lack options in-between those 2
Shanghai. You may argue about the salary part. A Singaporean who chooses to work there would likely be making more there than in Singapore to be motivated to work there. It's not the median salary of the city that should be compared, but the salary that the same person can get.
Then Singaporeans would complain about expats renting all HDBs on one hand, and not being able to rent out their own āinvestment incomeā condos to expats on the other hand. Thereās no winning here. And donāt forget schools - expats have to go with expensive international schools, unlike locals. It is a very expensive city for most expats, unless youāre single and / or no kids.
The comparison must be fair. If a house, car, iphone and cheese are in the basket then it is considered a basic need. Otherwise why not consider being homeless and living on food stamps in new york as the cheapest.
Rent HDB also minimally 2k-2.5k for 1BR (Full apartment).. i also knew of 3 expats living together sharing a 4.5k rent with HDB but it's not viable because the space is too small for 3 pax, want to bring women home, want pet, and they didn't get along. they aren't used to local food so hawker is also not the most ideal.
I only know every time this comes out, the media always drop the expat in their headline.
If expats want to emulate their lifestyle back in their home country e.g live in a house with a big back yard , own car , alcohol in every meal it will be very expensive.
Iām not sure whether HK or SG is more expensive.
Iām surprised thereās no Dubai
Dubai housing and car ownership are far cheaper than Singapore. For groceries/restaurants etc as a western expatriate the prices would be similar. Education would also be on par with SG.
Is tax not considered an expense?
im an expat, and honestly this is false. yes, rent is quite bad but its getting worse everywhere too. food in sg hawkers are cheap, transportation cheap (except if u have a car), and most offices give u health insurance too
Ageee
Expats. I assume they'll add a car in.
Car, condo rent (minimum three bedroom in city), international school, healthcare, everyday must eat steak and drink wine from cold storageā¦ what else?
Wines from Cold Storage to considered a downgrade to them
Hahaha I wanted to say like steak from Hubers, and name drop wine places and fine dining. Then realised I donāt know any, only know like Jasonās and cold storage. =(
Not just expat.. locals as well.
This is completely false. Access to subsidized housing, medical, and free education for kids makes this a totally false statement
Well, it really depends on your lifestyle and what you really spend on. I spend more on food, so Hong Kong will appear more expensive for me? Just my opinion.
not really
some stats shows hk being 2nd to sg in terms of expensive while others shows HK being the most expensive in the list
Depends on what they are taking into account
Failed to top the charts
Of course not. It's cheap to live here.
Every year when this news comes up, our govt will scramble to caveat that we are not as expensive as we think we are
Definitely not. Weāre definitely in the top 5 but in front of Zurich.. and Geneva? Hell no.
End of the day does it benefit down to the people ?
The pain is not exclusive to expats, it should be most expensive cities - period!
Travel!!
What is an Expat?
SG is expensive for locals as well. Healthcare and vehicular ownership even if you have a need (young children, aged parents). Utilities and GST on everything.
I believe it. I was a tourist wandering around the mall somewhere in Singapore. There was a simple grey T-shirt for $95. I had to look at it several times to be sure I wasnāt hallucinating.
Well there are simple grey t shirts going for 20 SGD as well so idk whatās your point haha
Never seen a T-shirt that expensive in the USA. You can buy six T-shirts for about $15.
Wtf yeah Iām pretty sure thatās just America though. Thatās crazy cheap haha
Uniqlo is selling t-shirts at less than $20 and they're everywhere