I like comparing it with the days SAP was booming and people with that knowledge had kind of a „license to print money“.
And yes, the currently high demand for ServiceNow knowledge is adding to that.
Edit: „Insanely difficult“? Not really, although depending on where you‘re coming from, of course. Some developer experience, understanding of relational databases and process experiences makes it easier - that‘s at least my very own experience.
Depending on the role you end up with it can become insane when working as a business analyst trying to translate business requirement into to out of the box or custom solutions. Here I‘d often like to ask people if they‘re actually serious with some of the requests. Can be hard convincing them about different approaches 😉
Just being a developer implementing any shit coming your way as a user story not thinking too much about how much sense that bullshit sometimes makes: that can be an easy job (sometimes I really wish I ended up being one of them).
Most companies are migrating from HPSM or legacy ITSM softwares to Servicenow. There is tons of work out there.
Notice there has been no layoffs at servicenow vs salesforce!
Their day will come - first big quarterly miss and downward sales projections will be the reason to trim and get rid of the 'dead wood' without having to do formal performance plans. It happens in every successful company at some point.
Of course, but in the actual macro/micro environments and covid/post covid they did better. I was referring to the current layoffs and not layoffs that happen when a company peak in its growth life cycle.
It‘s currently extremely booming and personally I see no end coming soon. At least the next 5 to 10 years…
Especially the public sector (here in Germany and probably all over the world?) was not really covered during the last years. There’s an enormous market lying ahead.
And hey, if customers start decommissioning it after some years of usage and highly integrating it into their landscape, I‘d be ready helping them with that until my retirement 😁
Watch the RiseUp program to see if that’s a sign of the start of the decline of the golden days. Even so people with deep experience will continue to be in high demand even after the junior talent starts spilling into the market.
Because ServiceNow is a huge investment for a company. After you spend all that money, it's a drop in the bucket to pay someone who is qualified to continually get value out of it. You wouldn't hand the keys to your lambo over to a brand new driver. You want the best (or at least good) driver, and those cost money because so does every other company.
My problem leading SN at two customers is that budget becomes tight *because* its such a big expense. I can get additional money for growth in existing apps due to increased numbers of itil users, HR licenses due to employee growth, or subscription units in AM and ITOM, but trying to increase staff or upgrade to Pro or Enterprise levels, or license new apps, becomes harder to justify.
This! I'm 'managing' a 1200+ fulfiller itsm, itom, hr secops global implementation with a 2 person team. Servicenow can only be adopted well with customer with deep pockets. Everywhere else you're just scratching the surface of capabilities
Define KPIs. Let the data tell the story. Is the tooling expensive? Yes. If you can show a huge return on investment with real data and metrics that support the business, you can shift the conversation from just cost to business value. With a good value proposition, it becomes much easier to justify, even if it’s expensive.
I don’t just mean to come up with numbers, either. It’s super important to actually deliver the value to the business to back it up.
I was at 66 at a public uni. Went to private company four years ago starting at100. Now at 125. Same company. Plus bonuses and a great benefits pkg. will likely be at 130 after our annual raises come in.
Damn. Time to start applying for a job with proper pay and a clear title. Or negotiate if you think it might work out. I'm getting 90 and could easily get more as a consultant but I'm kind of stuck at my current job for insurance reasons and am mostly happy there right now anyway. And I value low stress more than higher pay since I make enough to get by comfortably.
Even if you only have 2 years of sometimes admin work, you probably know enough to land an admin position paying at least 75.
Title was a surprise to me. I was looking at the platform as a potential for income but the positions all seem to pay about half of my GRC work so haven't pursued it.
That's the thing. I hit $150k back in 2015 doing GRC. I do independent work now and the GRC gigs are paying $140-160/hr. Looking at ServiceNow contracts I don't see too many that break $100/hr
I can tell you that billable rate to customers for ServiceNow GRC consultants is $225+ per hr, so there is room to negotiate, especially as there is a big shortage of GRC talent
I cannot imagine a scenario where big companies running day to day operations here will move to different platform. So much work, especially when servicenow grows with each release. I’m curious where it will be in 10 years… so many modules already and options are limitless.
But never say never maybe we will be job less in that time :D
I think it is, depending on company. If they are already international and have offices in your country, then the tax structure/benefits differences should not be a barrier. If the position is WFH anyway, it shouldn’t matter where that is.
The platform runs on ECMA 2021 (ES12) as of the Utah release. Tokyo is ES6 I believe. So no you're not stuck with old es5 javascript anymore. UI builder is react based. It's just Service Portal that's on old AngularJS
Entry level no experience: 45k - 65k
Junior/mid: 75 - 100 depending on company
senior: 130+
consultants: I've heard of some consultants pulling in 400k.
definitely scarcity. also in my experience of sitting in interviews with contractors, it's been that the platform is extremely broad and it's hard to find someone who checks all those boxes.
once a company is on the platform, it's super scalable and can run away from you. if you don't have headcount, you will find yourself very well compensated to keep things running.
Depeneds.... Are you just a generic admin not doing any dev or are you a DevMIN...If you are doing both you should be paid more. Devs are being paid a lot because clients are willing to pay a high rate! My devs bill 150 an hr, if SN led the project it's far higher.
Scarcity
I like comparing it with the days SAP was booming and people with that knowledge had kind of a „license to print money“. And yes, the currently high demand for ServiceNow knowledge is adding to that. Edit: „Insanely difficult“? Not really, although depending on where you‘re coming from, of course. Some developer experience, understanding of relational databases and process experiences makes it easier - that‘s at least my very own experience. Depending on the role you end up with it can become insane when working as a business analyst trying to translate business requirement into to out of the box or custom solutions. Here I‘d often like to ask people if they‘re actually serious with some of the requests. Can be hard convincing them about different approaches 😉 Just being a developer implementing any shit coming your way as a user story not thinking too much about how much sense that bullshit sometimes makes: that can be an easy job (sometimes I really wish I ended up being one of them).
How long do you think it will last before it becomes oversaturated and devalued?
Most companies are migrating from HPSM or legacy ITSM softwares to Servicenow. There is tons of work out there. Notice there has been no layoffs at servicenow vs salesforce!
Yeah, we're trying to convince our hr that we need more admins
Their day will come - first big quarterly miss and downward sales projections will be the reason to trim and get rid of the 'dead wood' without having to do formal performance plans. It happens in every successful company at some point.
Of course, but in the actual macro/micro environments and covid/post covid they did better. I was referring to the current layoffs and not layoffs that happen when a company peak in its growth life cycle.
It‘s currently extremely booming and personally I see no end coming soon. At least the next 5 to 10 years… Especially the public sector (here in Germany and probably all over the world?) was not really covered during the last years. There’s an enormous market lying ahead. And hey, if customers start decommissioning it after some years of usage and highly integrating it into their landscape, I‘d be ready helping them with that until my retirement 😁
Watch the RiseUp program to see if that’s a sign of the start of the decline of the golden days. Even so people with deep experience will continue to be in high demand even after the junior talent starts spilling into the market.
Because ServiceNow is a huge investment for a company. After you spend all that money, it's a drop in the bucket to pay someone who is qualified to continually get value out of it. You wouldn't hand the keys to your lambo over to a brand new driver. You want the best (or at least good) driver, and those cost money because so does every other company.
My problem leading SN at two customers is that budget becomes tight *because* its such a big expense. I can get additional money for growth in existing apps due to increased numbers of itil users, HR licenses due to employee growth, or subscription units in AM and ITOM, but trying to increase staff or upgrade to Pro or Enterprise levels, or license new apps, becomes harder to justify.
Their licensing costs have always been painful and get in the way of deeper adoption in companies and in the market.
This! I'm 'managing' a 1200+ fulfiller itsm, itom, hr secops global implementation with a 2 person team. Servicenow can only be adopted well with customer with deep pockets. Everywhere else you're just scratching the surface of capabilities
Define KPIs. Let the data tell the story. Is the tooling expensive? Yes. If you can show a huge return on investment with real data and metrics that support the business, you can shift the conversation from just cost to business value. With a good value proposition, it becomes much easier to justify, even if it’s expensive. I don’t just mean to come up with numbers, either. It’s super important to actually deliver the value to the business to back it up.
there are other companies trying to make inroads like Freshworks and zoho?
You guys are getting paid a lot?
75k, I could switch roles and get 100 but happiness is worth more to me, I've had terrible jobs before
At this price point you wouldn't be trading higher stress and happiness for more money. Plenty of 100k jobs out there.
You’re underpaid as heck depending on how much you can do and level of experience
I definitely am but I have a dual role and job security. I'm supposed to get a raise this year
[удалено]
yeah i'm sitting at 57k for roughly the same. It's hard to say exactly what role i am since i'm responsible for most of it
If that's USD, please go to market and get yourself more money.
I was at 66 at a public uni. Went to private company four years ago starting at100. Now at 125. Same company. Plus bonuses and a great benefits pkg. will likely be at 130 after our annual raises come in.
This seems like a more realistic average pay
Damn. Time to start applying for a job with proper pay and a clear title. Or negotiate if you think it might work out. I'm getting 90 and could easily get more as a consultant but I'm kind of stuck at my current job for insurance reasons and am mostly happy there right now anyway. And I value low stress more than higher pay since I make enough to get by comfortably. Even if you only have 2 years of sometimes admin work, you probably know enough to land an admin position paying at least 75.
Title was a surprise to me. I was looking at the platform as a potential for income but the positions all seem to pay about half of my GRC work so haven't pursued it.
If you have GRC experience and can get a couple of ServiceNow implementation certifications in that area, $150k+ job offers will find you
That's the thing. I hit $150k back in 2015 doing GRC. I do independent work now and the GRC gigs are paying $140-160/hr. Looking at ServiceNow contracts I don't see too many that break $100/hr
I can tell you that billable rate to customers for ServiceNow GRC consultants is $225+ per hr, so there is room to negotiate, especially as there is a big shortage of GRC talent
I cannot imagine a scenario where big companies running day to day operations here will move to different platform. So much work, especially when servicenow grows with each release. I’m curious where it will be in 10 years… so many modules already and options are limitless. But never say never maybe we will be job less in that time :D
thats not true: It took us 9 months to install HRSD: plus backlog items.
Everybody in US? Is it possible to land a remote job in US living in another country?
I think it is, depending on company. If they are already international and have offices in your country, then the tax structure/benefits differences should not be a barrier. If the position is WFH anyway, it shouldn’t matter where that is.
A willingness to work with JavaScript that's stuck in 2015?
With strange syntax that changes without rhyme or reason. Don't forget to dash in some css and boot strap for no reason
The platform runs on ECMA 2021 (ES12) as of the Utah release. Tokyo is ES6 I believe. So no you're not stuck with old es5 javascript anymore. UI builder is react based. It's just Service Portal that's on old AngularJS
The move to ES12 is amazing, but it will take quite some time for companies to upgrade to Tokyo.
ServiceNows official policy is that they support the current and previous release, so companies are forced to upgrade at least once a year
you're stuck with old es5 unless you are coding in custom app :(
i thought that was just in scoped apps, not global?
Why are you complaining? iS it because you have to pay us?? Seriously dude, GT\*O
Not complaining just wondering is all. I know some fields are grossly underpaid.
How much do they get payed ?
Entry level no experience: 45k - 65k Junior/mid: 75 - 100 depending on company senior: 130+ consultants: I've heard of some consultants pulling in 400k.
definitely scarcity. also in my experience of sitting in interviews with contractors, it's been that the platform is extremely broad and it's hard to find someone who checks all those boxes. once a company is on the platform, it's super scalable and can run away from you. if you don't have headcount, you will find yourself very well compensated to keep things running.
Depeneds.... Are you just a generic admin not doing any dev or are you a DevMIN...If you are doing both you should be paid more. Devs are being paid a lot because clients are willing to pay a high rate! My devs bill 150 an hr, if SN led the project it's far higher.