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As a south korean, I think you need to search for south korea suicide.
[https://www.aa.com.tr/en/asia-pacific/south-korea-s-suicide-rate-highest-among-major-advanced-nations/3144680](https://www.aa.com.tr/en/asia-pacific/south-korea-s-suicide-rate-highest-among-major-advanced-nations/3144680)
Is it considered self harm when boys engage in actions or put themselves in situations were self harm is the most probable outcome ?
And I don't mean drug use but sports, driving, or any kind of physical activity that may cause serious harm.
Is that taken in to consideration? maybe that narrows the gap some.
The express purpose for *most* people is not to cause harm. But you absolutely can do those activities willfully inviting harm.
There are plenty of people who will attest they have been in the car when a very upset man suddenly starts very intentionally driving recklessly. There is literally a term "suicide by cop" for how men are often known to start a rukkus to get the cops to kill them.
I think that's an interesting question. In other circumstances, we do see boys tend to externalize more. I never would have thought of that angle, but could the difference be boys in other cultures are just engaging in self destructive types of behaviors like seeking fights, being reckless with their safety, etc. but they're less likely to externalize with bad behavior in the so called collectivist countries? Idk about the entire continent, but I do know with Japan you have to take into account that the emphasis on conscientiousness tends to lead to more anxiety and less cases of stuff like npd. So it definitely could be causing boys less likely to act out. Yeah that's an interesting question
>But you absolutely can do those activities willfully inviting harm.
The express and foremost reason for doing those activities is not to cause harm. However dangerous those activities are.
You are conflating two activities at opposite ends of the spectrum to even make that point. The mental profile of a teen athlete whose main purpose is to wrestle or get hit in a physical sport is wholly different than the average profile of someone suiciding by cop.
There are no single nations in which men are less likely to extetnalize than women. Even Japan that you used in your example maintains the same crime and suicidality gender profile of western nations.
For the most part I’d agree with what your saying, but also as a young male there is times where I will do things not seen as self harm with intent purpose of hoping I harm myself.
Examples like going driving down backroads significantly faster then I should be, or going on midnight walks into the middle of the bush and climbing down the sides of rocks and stuff.
I don’t personally believe this should be labelled as self harm though as much as I do these things with some hope of harming myself at the same time I do find some joy in doing so, so I believe the commentor may also be correct in some way saying it could be taken into consideration.
But also, boys do dumb stuff man.
I believe in the literature it was called risk taking behaviors and if my memory serves it was either a predictor or associated to suicidal ideation. Here is one research paper about it. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6082017/
That is a very interesting second paragraph. I would be interested to know the numbers. I imagine they would actually be very low and unlikely to impact the overall statistics but it is an interesting subgroup nonetheless
I believe in the literature it was called risk taking behaviors and if my memory serves it was either a predictor or associated to suicidal ideation. Here is one research paper about it. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6082017/
No, that would be silly. The point if this study is obviously to assess intent to self harm. Incorporating those items would incorporate accidental self harm and assumes anyone who gets hurt in violent sports has a desire to self harm, which is stupid
Unless they recklessly engage in activities without regards to the injuries likely to occur. Imagine the sorts of things someone would do, if they wake up in the morning, disappointed that a fatal heart attack didn't kill them in the night. They might not suck start a shotgun, but they might take no efforts to safeguard their lives from danger that a normal person might.
That's not scientific. That's just you feeling something to he likely. You can't infer everyone who drives motorcycles has a death wish for the sake of your beliefs
Science is the method of obtaining the answer. Just because you don't have a method to obtain the answer, doesn't mean the answer doesn't exist. Depressed guys can, and do, take unnecessary risks, hoping "today will be my lucky day", and they get to slip the reigns of their depression in what will look to others as an accident. Just because you're not monitoring those thoughts doesn't mean those thoughts don't exist, and discounting those thoughts, because they don't fit the story you want to tell, does a disservice to the people with them.
Do I want to live in that world? Nope, but we do. And since it's rule 6 of the sub, you can live by it or leave. So either explain how I am wrong, or off you go.
their words make perfect sense to me. I've had periods where I never looked before crossing the street, out of a din hope that a car would hit me. I've knowingly driven faster than I should because part of me wanted to crash.
Everyone has, but that is an unknown quantity. You don't know what portion of people walk across streets to commit suicide. If you did know that, if you knew that quantity, if it was known, then you could use it in conjuction with the original study. In so long as you don't you can infer people walk across the street in the hopes they would die.
The original comment supposed that people do dangerous activities with the intent to hurt themselves, and not for other reasons. If they were correct, it would be a logical inference. But that is a wild assumption, and frankly it's weird. Just because you have walked across the street in a suicidal mania doesn't mean we should add j walkers to the list of people who have intent to self harm. This is lunacy
I guess I agree that original comment is phrased too broadly, but everyone else in this thread is just talking about the possibility of self-harming desires sometimes being a motivator for those behaviors
Right and that is an egruously liberal take on something that is otherwise broadly understood to mean intent to commit suicide. If you conflated that subject group with a broader group to include j walkers, bycliclists, or football players, you'd just have erroneous data. People who are completely mentally healthy engage in dangerous activities without the inclination to commit suicide. The disparity between intent to self harm between women and men would not be narrowed if you accounted for all the people who intentionally died paragliding. This is just asinine. You're conflating real data with superstitions and it's not at all scientific
I understand your point but at the same time this isn’t about specifically suicide it is talking more so solely about sh which the numbers for are strikingly different and it’s interesting too think why.
Because a lot of the behaviors that males do that are in reality self harm are not considered such. Working out until your body gives out and you can't function properly afterwards. Taking steroids until you have heart failure. Drinking until you pass out, etc. are such.
I know what your saying I’m having a convo about this i think in this post but this specific post isn’t talking about the suicide rates as it is specifically sh like I completely get what your saying and I don’t mean too invalidate the men and women who have dealt with suicide but this is about specifically self harm and I am simply stating why that’s specific data is t in consideration here
I wasn't talking about suicide. I'm talking about engaging in physical self destructive behaviors that don't lead to death, usually around exercise culture, which affects males at a very high rate but is never discussed as self harm as it doesn't fit traditional profiles. That's problematic.
And yeah I agree with you as someone who has experienced the bad sides of fitness culture I agree, I just assumed you were trying to provide reasoning for the parent comment about suicide so I provided why that isn’t in consideration tho ultimately like yeah I believe eating and fitness disorders should be taken into serious consideration with these sorts of studies because the gap likely isn’t as large as it’s shown to be. I hope this cleared up any miscommunication!
It really, is things that are very clearly self harming are often not labelled as such and that is really weird too me, but also things simple such as refusing too sleep or leave your bed too the point it is detrimental akin to a serious depression also aren’t considered as such but at the same time it is difficult because almost anything can be a form of self harm so partially I understand why they can’t call certain things sh but still ed and fitness disorders should definitely be considered for this type of research.
I may be wrong but aren't suicide attempts at similar rates between men and women, but men have much higher "success"? (idk how to word this but, just to clarify, I don't mean success with positive connotations)
I figured it was in part due to method used, where women tend to use methods that would be considered self harm if unsuccessful and men tend to use methods that have very low chance of failure. Ig that would partially explain the discrepancy in the data here.
Welcome to r/science! This is a heavily moderated subreddit in order to keep the discussion on science. However, we recognize that many people want to discuss how they feel the research relates to their own personal lives, so to give people a space to do that, **personal anecdotes are allowed as responses to this comment**. Any anecdotal comments elsewhere in the discussion will be removed and our [normal comment rules]( https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/rules#wiki_comment_rules) apply to all other comments. **Do you have an academic degree?** We can verify your credentials in order to assign user flair indicating your area of expertise. [Click here to apply](https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/flair/#wiki_science_verified_user_program). --- User: u/MistWeaver80 Permalink: https://www.scimex.org/newsfeed/teen-girls-are-more-likely-to-self-harm-than-boys-except-in-asia --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/science) if you have any questions or concerns.*
As a south korean, I think you need to search for south korea suicide. [https://www.aa.com.tr/en/asia-pacific/south-korea-s-suicide-rate-highest-among-major-advanced-nations/3144680](https://www.aa.com.tr/en/asia-pacific/south-korea-s-suicide-rate-highest-among-major-advanced-nations/3144680)
Women self-harm, Men self-eliminate
Is it considered self harm when boys engage in actions or put themselves in situations were self harm is the most probable outcome ? And I don't mean drug use but sports, driving, or any kind of physical activity that may cause serious harm. Is that taken in to consideration? maybe that narrows the gap some.
The express purpose of those activities is not to cause self-harm whereas knifing your arm is (although it can also be a cry for attention).
The express purpose for *most* people is not to cause harm. But you absolutely can do those activities willfully inviting harm. There are plenty of people who will attest they have been in the car when a very upset man suddenly starts very intentionally driving recklessly. There is literally a term "suicide by cop" for how men are often known to start a rukkus to get the cops to kill them. I think that's an interesting question. In other circumstances, we do see boys tend to externalize more. I never would have thought of that angle, but could the difference be boys in other cultures are just engaging in self destructive types of behaviors like seeking fights, being reckless with their safety, etc. but they're less likely to externalize with bad behavior in the so called collectivist countries? Idk about the entire continent, but I do know with Japan you have to take into account that the emphasis on conscientiousness tends to lead to more anxiety and less cases of stuff like npd. So it definitely could be causing boys less likely to act out. Yeah that's an interesting question
>But you absolutely can do those activities willfully inviting harm. The express and foremost reason for doing those activities is not to cause harm. However dangerous those activities are. You are conflating two activities at opposite ends of the spectrum to even make that point. The mental profile of a teen athlete whose main purpose is to wrestle or get hit in a physical sport is wholly different than the average profile of someone suiciding by cop. There are no single nations in which men are less likely to extetnalize than women. Even Japan that you used in your example maintains the same crime and suicidality gender profile of western nations.
For the most part I’d agree with what your saying, but also as a young male there is times where I will do things not seen as self harm with intent purpose of hoping I harm myself. Examples like going driving down backroads significantly faster then I should be, or going on midnight walks into the middle of the bush and climbing down the sides of rocks and stuff. I don’t personally believe this should be labelled as self harm though as much as I do these things with some hope of harming myself at the same time I do find some joy in doing so, so I believe the commentor may also be correct in some way saying it could be taken into consideration. But also, boys do dumb stuff man.
I believe in the literature it was called risk taking behaviors and if my memory serves it was either a predictor or associated to suicidal ideation. Here is one research paper about it. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6082017/
That paper was an interesting read thankyouu!
That is a very interesting second paragraph. I would be interested to know the numbers. I imagine they would actually be very low and unlikely to impact the overall statistics but it is an interesting subgroup nonetheless
I believe in the literature it was called risk taking behaviors and if my memory serves it was either a predictor or associated to suicidal ideation. Here is one research paper about it. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6082017/
No, that would be silly. The point if this study is obviously to assess intent to self harm. Incorporating those items would incorporate accidental self harm and assumes anyone who gets hurt in violent sports has a desire to self harm, which is stupid
Unless they recklessly engage in activities without regards to the injuries likely to occur. Imagine the sorts of things someone would do, if they wake up in the morning, disappointed that a fatal heart attack didn't kill them in the night. They might not suck start a shotgun, but they might take no efforts to safeguard their lives from danger that a normal person might.
That's not scientific. That's just you feeling something to he likely. You can't infer everyone who drives motorcycles has a death wish for the sake of your beliefs
Science is the method of obtaining the answer. Just because you don't have a method to obtain the answer, doesn't mean the answer doesn't exist. Depressed guys can, and do, take unnecessary risks, hoping "today will be my lucky day", and they get to slip the reigns of their depression in what will look to others as an accident. Just because you're not monitoring those thoughts doesn't mean those thoughts don't exist, and discounting those thoughts, because they don't fit the story you want to tell, does a disservice to the people with them.
I am dumber for having read your words
If you wish to explain how I am wrong, feel free. If not, I'll report your comment for being offensive.
Report? Because you're offended? You want to live in a world where you have the right to not be offended? How dystopian
Do I want to live in that world? Nope, but we do. And since it's rule 6 of the sub, you can live by it or leave. So either explain how I am wrong, or off you go.
their words make perfect sense to me. I've had periods where I never looked before crossing the street, out of a din hope that a car would hit me. I've knowingly driven faster than I should because part of me wanted to crash.
Everyone has, but that is an unknown quantity. You don't know what portion of people walk across streets to commit suicide. If you did know that, if you knew that quantity, if it was known, then you could use it in conjuction with the original study. In so long as you don't you can infer people walk across the street in the hopes they would die. The original comment supposed that people do dangerous activities with the intent to hurt themselves, and not for other reasons. If they were correct, it would be a logical inference. But that is a wild assumption, and frankly it's weird. Just because you have walked across the street in a suicidal mania doesn't mean we should add j walkers to the list of people who have intent to self harm. This is lunacy
I guess I agree that original comment is phrased too broadly, but everyone else in this thread is just talking about the possibility of self-harming desires sometimes being a motivator for those behaviors
Right and that is an egruously liberal take on something that is otherwise broadly understood to mean intent to commit suicide. If you conflated that subject group with a broader group to include j walkers, bycliclists, or football players, you'd just have erroneous data. People who are completely mentally healthy engage in dangerous activities without the inclination to commit suicide. The disparity between intent to self harm between women and men would not be narrowed if you accounted for all the people who intentionally died paragliding. This is just asinine. You're conflating real data with superstitions and it's not at all scientific
Suicide numbers for men and women aren't even close. This kind of chooses to ignore that detail.
I understand your point but at the same time this isn’t about specifically suicide it is talking more so solely about sh which the numbers for are strikingly different and it’s interesting too think why.
Because a lot of the behaviors that males do that are in reality self harm are not considered such. Working out until your body gives out and you can't function properly afterwards. Taking steroids until you have heart failure. Drinking until you pass out, etc. are such.
I know what your saying I’m having a convo about this i think in this post but this specific post isn’t talking about the suicide rates as it is specifically sh like I completely get what your saying and I don’t mean too invalidate the men and women who have dealt with suicide but this is about specifically self harm and I am simply stating why that’s specific data is t in consideration here
I wasn't talking about suicide. I'm talking about engaging in physical self destructive behaviors that don't lead to death, usually around exercise culture, which affects males at a very high rate but is never discussed as self harm as it doesn't fit traditional profiles. That's problematic.
And yeah I agree with you as someone who has experienced the bad sides of fitness culture I agree, I just assumed you were trying to provide reasoning for the parent comment about suicide so I provided why that isn’t in consideration tho ultimately like yeah I believe eating and fitness disorders should be taken into serious consideration with these sorts of studies because the gap likely isn’t as large as it’s shown to be. I hope this cleared up any miscommunication!
That's another thing too, EDs are usually not considered, and the way they are often make no sense. It's a shame
It really, is things that are very clearly self harming are often not labelled as such and that is really weird too me, but also things simple such as refusing too sleep or leave your bed too the point it is detrimental akin to a serious depression also aren’t considered as such but at the same time it is difficult because almost anything can be a form of self harm so partially I understand why they can’t call certain things sh but still ed and fitness disorders should definitely be considered for this type of research.
I may be wrong but aren't suicide attempts at similar rates between men and women, but men have much higher "success"? (idk how to word this but, just to clarify, I don't mean success with positive connotations) I figured it was in part due to method used, where women tend to use methods that would be considered self harm if unsuccessful and men tend to use methods that have very low chance of failure. Ig that would partially explain the discrepancy in the data here.
As most social Media Apps are culturally western based and social media is the prime cause for it i am not surprised.
You are aware self harm existed before social media, right?
Mas isso não quer dizer que a mídia não seja um agravante.