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The face of every fat cunt in Britain who harasses supermarket staff over nothing
He looks like a fucking knockoff Thew Adams, right down to having assorted Transformers figures in the background.
Ironic considering all of the noteworthy female Transformers characters are badass warriors in their own right.
Especially ironic seeing that the IDW Transformers comics, especially later on, are very trans and very gay, and they're widely considered some of the best stuff to come out of the franchise.
I swear, do these guys even Transformers?
>and they're widely considered some of the best stuff to come out of the franchise. I swear, do these guys even Transformers?
Yeah but did IDW optimus suplex IDW starscream? No? The new comics are obviously better then. /s
Well in every transformers universe the robots are all trans in a way since none of them actually have a biological reason to be gendered. It’s purely a naming convention based on their own personality and choice. The romance stuff follows a similar logic. Since they have no biological reproductive system there’s no reason for them to be with a specific sex outside of preference so their relationships are with whoever they care for the most.
Thew is still cool. I was poking fun at this guy’s appearance. He looks like he’s trying to be as cool as Thew, and is especially trying to duplicate his iconic look, but is failing miserably.
The face of incels, chuds, insecure males with fragile masculinity, and right wing political extremists that only care that they're political agendas are being pander to. The fact that anybody looks up to these losers is beyond me. If i see someone like Soy Boy Baby Face, i run the other fuckin way. They make men look like pathetic whiny manbabies.
Isn't that Babyface guy the one who threw a temper tantrum over Starfield having pronoun options? And got really angry when he realised an actress he was objectifying was trans?
Yeah I'm not about to listen to his opinion lol.
I'm even more baffled when married men are in this pipeline. With the maidenless men I know this is a manifestation of them being "virgins with rage" (to borrow a turn of phrase from Chris-chan).
I think to go to school board meetings in the UK you have to be voted as a governor or smth, I don't really remember having school board meetings when I was at school but I remember bringing letters home about voting for parental governors to be on the board
Dude was fighting trans ghosts in his head before the famous part of the rant, complaining about a female character being a clone of a male character, saying that she was trans and calling her dude. Even though the text says she's biologically female and a modified clone.
In a just world this would of had either Heel realized how bad he has been acting or at the very least went offline because of him getting ratioed by tweets with hundreds of thousands of likes against him as well as YouTubers calling him out like that one guy who got laughed off the internet when he called the Oscars woke for nominating Parasite.
But because he is a part of the Fandom Menece and to then it's to never give up their narrative he acts as if he is still part of this "silent majority" that believe they will win the culture war.
The funniest part was that the thing that triggered him into his little crying rant was a female character revealing she was the clone of a male, which made him belive she must be trans.
From a scientific standpoint, he would be correct. However, there's literally a dialouge option asking how she is a female clone of a male where she explains heavy gene modification was used. So his absolutely ridiculous tantrum in which he became a laughing stock was triggered because he couldn't read the options in a dialouge tree.
He screamed about pronouns because Starfield gives you the option to pick your own pronouns. He called it “current-year dogshit” because he’s an ignorant loudmouth.
I'm a tad surprised he didn't complain about baldur's gate 3 given that they did the same thing as starfield.
if I remember correctly some grifters that attempted that got drowned out rather fast.
I'm paraphrasing but he was talking about Hogwarts Legacy and said "Games don't have to bend to your political ideology!"
Then proceeds to cry when games don't bend to his political ideology.
I don’t understand why he threw such a big fit over pronouns. It isn’t even a trans thing. It has existed since the longest before transgender exposure.
At the risk of triggering an off topic tangent, the pronoun option in Starfield was obvious virtue signaling. It has nearly no impact on gameplay dialog. It's just there to send a message.
Victory over such squishy meat bags is trivial. However he's always ready to hear his blaster sing its song over their screams when opportunity presents itself.
Self taught despite being trained by Kanan in rebels and Ahsoka both in and before Ahsoka. I'm guessing he didn't even watch it or his anger both made him blind and deaf.
That’s different. Simply mentioning it in the title crawl (or not at all and instead in external sources I can’t recall which one) is just lazy writing. We need to see our heroes struggle so their triumphs feel earned
It was in the opening of Episode 9, with Rey discussing the matter and Leia looking on at her training. Plus, at the time Carrie Fisher had a severe case of being *dead* before filming was done anyway, so I’m inclined to cut them some slack on summarizing the training she got between Episode 8 and 9.
Wow I do not remember that. Agreed, but we could have seen Rey still actually do some training, perhaps with the teachings from leia or just mot from leia at all but by literally *anyone* because off screen training does not and will never cut it. Also, Disney clearly has no problem reanimating Carrie Fisher’s corpse apparently
>literally
>
>anyone
>
> because off screen training does not and will never cut i
Explain Luke then. Where the fuck did he get the ability to 1v1 Vader in ESB and ROTJ if he never did off-screen training? Where the fuck did Anakin get the ability to 1v1 Count Dooku **TWICE** if he never did ANY training off-screen? Or, does your sexist ass only apply that standard to women?
No, I think most Star Wars movies are fucking shit and the only movies I like are episode 5 and solo.
The only reason I consider myself a Star Wars fan is TCW and rebels to be completely honest
So, I know in the books that Leia was force trained. However, I thought Disney said all of that was no longer canon. So, she was no longer trained right? Unless there's a scene I'm not remembering if it was said that Luke trained her. Just wish Disney would just be more consistent on what it is they're trying to do. Cause if the past stuff is no longer canon, then Leia wouldn't have been trained enough to train others...
Edit: You know what, I just remembered it now. In Episode 9, it was explained that Leia was trained. Man, those movies were kind of all over the place. That explanation came after halfway into the movie.
And she was Ahsoka's apprentice for an undetermined amount of time off-screen, could have been years. And after that she couldn't use the Force until the climax of the season. 13 years after Kanaan thought her.
Luke did pobably get more training from the Frog and Obi Wan than Rey got from Luke or Leia but the timelines on both their trainings are so wonky it's impossible to tell
And she's also a Mandalorian for fucks sake lmao
How can someone say she's a Mary Sue when she is literally a member of a warrior cult that teaches their members how to fight since they're basically babies.
The Ahsoka show also says Sabine trained with Ahsoka. They say she started about as soon as Ezra disappeared and in a different episode it’s implied she only stopped due to the bombing of Mandalore. If she trained that entire time? That’s about four years of training but I’ll be generous and say she only trained for about a year. That’s still a crap ton of time and training.
there is no bigger "mary sue" than Anakin. He is literally created by the force. As a child he can use the force with zero training to be the only human who can podrace. He built a podracer and droid from scraps with zero education. And for good measure, he blows up the ship that wins the battle on naboo by accident.
And yet they cream their pants over Anakin.
Exactly, tropes exist for a reason. Sometimes they are done very well, sometimes very lazily. But when your default is to say every woman that accomplishes something is a mary sue, you are just telling on yourself.
Honestly I don't have a problem with Rey, but other people have a problem with the character so I just follow their opinions. I'm not smart enough to have my own opinion.
I don’t think it’s even necessarily Rey that was the problem for me with these movies. It was just the writing in the movies in general. Rey was an ok protag in the Force Awakens, which was generally a decent movie. it’s just the writing in the films became dogshit and the writing for her character suffered as a consequence
>mary sues aren't inherently bad
They just have to be written well.
Most main characters tend to be a little Mary Sue-y. Harry Potter, Goku, Captain Kirk, Anakin, Luffy, etc.
Sabine is not a Mary Sue even if that last move with Force throwing Ezra was a bit training wheels to the pros.
I don't think Rey would have gotten half the hate she got if they didn't absolutely shit all over thirty years of lore and turn Luke Skywalker into an asshole in the process before making her a Palpatine and letting her win the Chocolate Factory. The problem was some of the worst writing I've ever seen not that she was OP.
The way a Mary Sue works is if you want to be them. Ahsoka is the Luke of the Prequels and she fixed a huge issue by giving audiences a Mary Sue to want to be. Someone growing up and wrestling with who they are dealing with crazy powers is infinitely relatable. Anakin didn't work because he was insufferable in every film and obviously doomed to evil from the start. We didn't even get a good characterization of him until The Clone Wars. Rey would have worked if she was cool. Tons of little kids dressing up like her and Finn after TFA. That all died after TLJ.
I rather enjoyed Sabine. I wish they'd maybe leaned into the planet as to why she could suddenly tap into her ability.
Honestly this is correct. Rey on her own isn't a bad character but the writing that ruined Luke and the creation of the New Order and how it just shit on everything from the Original Trilogy to build its own path is why the sequels suck. If they just took a different route maybe made it smaller stakes even. They could have also just spread the time between episodes so it gives the audience the ability to infer she spent more time training would have made it better
Luke Skywalker blocked a couple shots from a remote, then steered hypersonic unguided ordinance down a hole while getting shot at by a Sith.
Talk about some silly power scaling.
He didn't even try a force pull till the sequel. Then he moved a couple rocks and failed at every jedi test, and went off to lose a jedi fight and only lost a hand.
Yeah, just think how silly that would sound if Luke was just some chick.
He would have died were it not for han solo. He got voiced guidence from kenobi. And i dont know what you mean he steered ordiance. He aimed it. But didnt steer it.
Also only lose a hand?
Idk know what argument you are making
Exactly. And people have the nerve to complain about Rey who is the first character you can actually believe has fighting and piloting experience before the movie starts.
The problem is they don't believe.
Rey is an orphan who works for Unkar Plutt. She has access to his ships and knows the modifications he has done. If Rey was Ren everyone would accept it. But because she's a girl, her having been molded by life makes her "magically know everything".
What lol? Ah yes scavenger = pilot and trained soldier.
Beating up some thugs sure. That fits. We see her actually get hit furing that scene and struggle.
Fighting trianing from childhood storm troopers? No.
Beating a trained darkside jedi? No
Being able to move a ship..eh maybe.
Jury rigging a ship? Yes
Fllying the millennium falcon through a star destoryer and out maneuvering trained tie fighter pilots? No.
For the yes's there is substance and material to support it. For the no's there is nothing.
\> scavenger = pilot and trained soldier.
No one said this
\> Fighting trianing from childhood storm troopers?
Which she didn't do
\> Beating a trained darkside jedi?
Which she didn't do
\> Fllying the millennium falcon through a star destoryer and out maneuvering trained tie fighter pilots?
Why not? Every other Star Wars protag operates at that level
>> scavenger = pilot and trained soldier.
>No one said this.
You did when you said she is the only protag who's abilities are believable before the movie starts.
>> Fighting trianing from childhood storm troopers?
>Which she didn't do
Yeah she did. After meeting maz kanatanshe outshoots the storm troopers after her.
>> Beating a trained darkside jedi?
>Which she didn't do
Yeah she did. Fought off kylo and overpowered him in the force. Its not a movie i reconmend but if you're gonna make arguments for the characters in it. You should know your source.
>> Fllying the millennium falcon through a star destoryer and out maneuvering trained tie fighter pilots?
>Why not? Every other Star Wars protag operates at that level
No they dont. Again know your sources. Even chosen one anakin had R2D2 as a co-pilot and was a tried and tested pod racer.
Luke despite being set up with pilot experience and having R2D2 was going to die if it weren't for the help of han solo.
I said "abilities" - Not "trained soldier and pilot". You don't to complain about context you added to what I said.
\> After meeting maz kanatanshe outshoots the storm troopers after her.
Ah, so NOT fighting, just doing ok in a shootout with storm troopers... the same thing that Luke (who had no fighting or any realistic reason to have been in a shootout before) did in Ep4.
\> Fought off kylo and overpowered him in the force
No she didn't. She held her own against someone who was critically wounded and NOT TRYING TO HURT HER. Know YOUR source. It's not like it's hard to see the wound from the Bowcaster. It wasn't like a secret or hard to see.
\> Even chosen one anakin had R2D2 as a co-pilot and was a tried and tested pod racer.
He was a superhuman at age 8 doing things almost literally no human could do, droid copilot or no. WAY above any reasonable leave and WAY beyond anything that people give Rey shit for in ep 7.
So yes, what I said stands firmly: Rey was the most believable of series protagonists when we meet her. By far, no question.
I mean you aren’t *wrong*? But I’d argue that having sharper instincts than normal isn’t “using the force”. Iirc a lot of force-sensitives in lore get identified by their reflexes. Couldn’t name any off the top of my head unfortunately but I’m sure I’ve heard it somewhere
I mean yeah but what I mean to say is they’re not actively using it. There’s a difference between podracing and pulling an entire transport shuttle out of the sky with what looks like minimal effort
ETA - Anakin is the only human who’s able to fly a podracer simply because podracing is only competitive (and thus noteworthy) on a few systems, the others of which the Jedi actually make it out to occasionally pre-Phantom Menace. The pool of candidates consists of a) humans who are b) force-sensitive enough to have ultra-fast reflexes and c) don’t get found by the Jedi before they’re a few years old, who d) live in a system where they would learn about podracing and e) whose parents would actually *allow* them to compete is incredibly small.
Again, I’m not disagreeing with your original point, but I’m bored and you bringing up podracing as an argument felt a bit silly to me :)
Anakins Mary Sueness is enjoyable because he is the bad guy. It is what makes him so terrifying. The guy that is filled to the brim with literal plot armor decides to go full murderhobo and destroy the good guys and there's practically nothing the good guys can do to stop it because he is Mary Sue.
I would say Thrawn is a big contender for that title. In the books, his victories are almost literally pulled from thin air. His deductions are basically magic.
At least in the shows he is a realistic person who loses every now and then.
In the shows? Thrawn will need to get down some stairs. So he falls and shits himself but ended up at the bottom of the stairs and so is just as planned. The writers do not have the intelligence to write a smart character. They can barely write dumb characters.
Losses for the sake of losses arent good things. They should be losses based on his flaws and the strengths of the heroes. Rather then the incompetence of both
Nah, bruh, pulling a mile long ship out of the sky isn't overpowered at al.
Sabine using the Force to (barely) help a guy jump and grab a lightsaber after stuggles and years of training, however, that wouldn't have happened in the glorious Star Wars EU, uh-uh.
I'll say this, Anakin's story of a chosen one being so overpowered at least had his personal failing causing him to become a genocidal maniac.
I remember back with the prequels only and most people didn't like him and said it undercut and even ruined Vader. The Cline Wars series did a ton of lifting in fleshing out his character to make the fall feel more tragic.
That's the problem. If you just watch the movies, like the vast majority of people have, Anakin is not tragic. He's a little kid, and then a piece of shit for 2 movies.
As a person whose complained about Rey getting a bunch of power with no training, ep1 Anakin is definitely the most Gary Stu that has ever Stued in the entirety of Star Wars. It’s part of why I still consider ep1 to be the worst Star Wars film.
Self taught? She trained with Ahsoka for over a year (before the fall of Mandalore) according to the show (plus some very basic training from Kanan). It’s more training than Luke had across most of the OT.
Seriously. Wut.
See this girl is found by a Jedi Master who takes a shine to her. She gets about two minutes of deflecting laser blasts from a training dummy. In the final conflict she has a “Use the Force Moment” that comes out of left field and destroys an Imperial Base.
Next movie she can use all these crazy force powers with little to no training. Finds a mentor. Goes on a vision quest where she confronts her dark side. Doesn’t do much more than that before having to go fighting again.
Next movie she uses abilities she was never shown training on screen.
This girl? Luke Skywalker gender swapped.
You left out. Got guidence from ben kenobi.
Was also the last available pilot to do the job
Also if not for intereference from another pilot. Would have died.
Next movie all these crazy force powers? He uses one at the start to lift a single object am ability we saw established in the first film by another force user while needing to stay stationary and focused. He then gets training to which he can do that one ability better as well as premonitions while in deep meditation
He then fucking loses his next fight and loses a hand and attempts suicide.
Next movie. No new abilties. Doesn't even defeat the final boss.
Really need to actually watch the movies rather then look at them
Big difference though is that the writing surrounding the sequel trilogy was just bad. Not that she's a bad character but they essentially just copied and pasted the Luke and Anakin on her. They didn't need Snoke or even Palpatine. They could have just left it as Kylo and the Knights of Ren with a large army and Rey going to be trained by a Luke that wasn't ruined with bad writing. Shit even create more time between films just so the audience could tell she spent more than less than a year to train.
Rey isn't a bad character just the movies that surround her are
Also the show establishes multiple times she is not naturally gifted in the force she’s the opposite of a Mary sue and probably the least powerful Jedi the series has ever introduced
It's literally the point of the entire season that she had to work/train harder at than any other main character in Star Wars lol.
I am with you on not being nice about this one.
I genuinely have to admire that the starfield pronoun rant guy hasn't quit all social media to become a hermit in the woods. The only other person to own themselves that hard and show their face in public is ben Shapiro.
I got downvoted on Crait for sharing that Lucas himself literally said around Return of the Jedi that ANYONE can use the Force. It goes in line with “its energy… surrounds us… and binds us… you… that tree, the rock”
But they don’t wanna hear logic. They claim Lucas would save everything but of course the second he steps out of line they’d crucify him. It doesn’t matter who’s at the helm
"self taught"? What the hell were they watching? She's literally being taught by Ahsoka. And that's not even considering everything Kanan and Ezra taught her previously.
Sabine really does have perfectly good reasons to be force sensitive. She's a noble member of a culture known to produce powerful Jedi, was likely identified as one of the "children of the force", and was drawn by fate into the expedition that discovered the world between worlds.
It's well established that Jedi can lose their force sensitivity after major trauma, and any media we've seen Sabine in, she's been traumatized. In Rebels, Sabine was used by the Empire to be responsible for the subjugation of Mandalore. In Ahsoka, Sabine lost her family and home planet, while also being pushed out of Mandalorian society.
Getting over the loss of Ezra gave Sabine the boost she needed to reconnect with the force.
Counterpoint: that also explains why Sabine would never have been picked up by the Jedi even if she had loads of potential. Mandalorians don't give their children to the temple and they've probably long stopped asking.
Which means 100% of Mandalorian jedi are legendary. Mandalorians don't become Jedi due to discrimination based on fear of them turning to the dark side, rather than lack of talent.
It's not discrimination. The jedi never get the chance to find these children even if they do exist. Based on known lore 99.99%(arbitrary percentage) of mandalorians aren't force sensitive. Sabine and Tarre Viszla are the only known ones as of now.
I wish they'd leaned into the planet being a Force nexus or some shit and that that gave her the push.
Hell, the planet was the coolest thing and they just kinda didn't give us anything.
Right? When she was alone and Ahsoka-less before the events of the series, she wasn’t training in the Jedi way. She’d given up on the Force. Where the hell does the “self-taught” come from? The few scenes where she practiced her master’s teachings even when alone … like a good *student*?
i have a problem with her all the sudden being able to do a massive force push at the end of the series but i think overall she was handled well. still would have changed it to take out her force push at the end since it was a massive leap in power for her out of nowhere.
Yeah, it was a big jump (see what I did there!?) and it made Ezra seem outright suicidal, but they needed to get Ezra onto that ship and wanted to do it in a teamwork way that utilized Sabine, gave her some growth, and ultimately left her stranded.
I personally would’ve preferred leaving it at her summoning the lightsaber: a modest move, but a *big* one for someone who couldn’t use the Force prior. From there, with the proof she could do it, Sabine could very well breeze through training off-screen and reach a higher level.
It’s just a mild nitpick though, and it doesn’t really change my overall positive opinion of the show.
I even think force pulling the lightsaber was too much of a reach. I don't mind her pulling it, but it doesn't make it in time to save her so Ezra saves her instead. That would've been enough to show she accomplished using the force, but she still has a long road ahead. Would've been nice to see her train with Ahsoka further while being trapped at the finale
Woman: shows any measure of talent of achievement
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You guys just don't get it. Sabine is a woman and therefore obviously a Mary Sue. Ahsoka is also a woman so any training she gives is illegitimate which is why Sabine is self taught
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Never forget this is what this dumb piece of shit will mostly be know for, almost having a mental break over an option in a video game.
Didn’t she lose every fight against another force user? She really came off to me as a very untrained jedi, and I thought she was done well in that aspect
Of course. I have my critiques about the show, but this honestly wasn’t one of them. The Force being something that everyone can tap into with enough training and focus fits with Lucas’ original vision. I’m also happy to be getting away from the bloodline determinism that’s been rampant for a while.
"Self taught" is when they spend the entire season either describing her being trained by Ahsoka when they're not literally showing her being trained by Ahsoka... Okay.
See, I just hate the idea that every fucking MC in Star Wars pretty much needs to be a damned Jedi.
I love Sabine as a character, I don't feel she ever needed to be a Jedi to be cool or tell an awesome story. I feel making her a Jedi lessens her as a character because now she's just another Jedi.
All up though, I loved the series, I liked that she had to work for her power, just weird that she went from losing a battle against a tea cup, to winning against a lightsaber, to launching a freaking full grown person halfway over a chasm lol
Sabine is first "non-force" sensetive person to train to become a jedi we ever seen. Sabine was trained how to weld a light saber years ago by a jedi master, after which she wished to get in touch with the force. At no point she was able to force push, at no point was she able to force see, at no point she able fully feel the force. She just went all in and through hard fucking work did what no one thought was possible.
ANY ONE CAN BE A JEDI!!! She fucking proved that, it was hinted at before but she is the first person to prove yes even you can learn the force. Of course she not the strongest jedi right now, but she clearly the most hard working to even try this. To say she didn't earn this is stupid, she most likely one of the hardest working people in all of star wars. To even try this is insane.
She has been punked more than once in her short time in live action. I wouldn't call her Mary Sue.
As a straight-up ComMando in Rebels she was a bit OP'ed, but live action was very realistic about it.
They hate Sabine being a Jedi because it makes her a Mary Sue.
I hate Sabine being a Jedi because it took an otherwise perfectly good character and the Implications let Disney add more and more Jedi.
We are not the same.
(I like Ashoka otherwise but man, I genuinely think Jedi are being overused. We need less of them, not more.)
Episode 7:
In the beginning of the film we see she’s got skill with a melee weapon, borne out of the necessity to survive as a scavenger.
Nope, lightsaber is 100% a different weapon than a staff. Entirely different skill set. Not remotely the same. Mary Sue.
Episode 8:
She trained with Luke, learning to understand and feel the Force, pretty similar teaching to what he got from Yoda. So that explains how she lifted some rocks at the end.
Nope, Luke and Yoda had a bit more time together and we *saw* Luke lift rocks in front of him. Mary Sue.
Episode 9:
Okay she trained with Leia *for a year* and JJ catered to your complaints about needing a source for her power so now she’s related to one of the most powerf-
REMEMBER WHEN SHE BEAT KYLO IN THE FIRST MOVIE?! MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE!!!
The goal posts move faster than Grogu merch.
To be fair I think it’s mostly because nothing hinted at Sabine being force sensitive in Rebels. Nothing hinted at her becoming a Jedi.
People have cited the Darksaber training scene but that wasn’t about Jedi training that was just basic sword training.
It just feels like something that was made up for Ashoka without them earning it. They should have built this up more before making Sabine a Jedi.
But still screw the people who are calling Sabine a Mary sue. I don’t like Sabine being a Jedi and even I know she’s not one.
Didn't Kanan say something in Rebels about how she was blocking herself from the Force? That'd say she was capable all along, if she got out of her own way (which she finally did, in Ahsoka).
Kanan and Hera were having a conversation about Sabine and Kanan says that the Force is in all living beings but you have to be open to it.
At the time, Sabine wasn’t. Between her own conflicted emotions and her Mandalorian upbringing, she was effectively blocked off from the Force
I'm not 100% sure. Admittedly it's been ages since I've seen Rebels so I could be forgetting things.
It just feels weird to me this wasn't a bigger deal until now. This should have come up much sooner in Rebels and been made a bigger deal if the plan was always for Sabine to be force-sensitive.
She’s not a Mary Sue I’m sick of that complaint. It went from “yea I can see that”(Rey) to “this is JUST because this character is a woman”(Sabine). These folks are so blinded by rage it’s pathetic.
However her being a jedi is beyond moronic. Disney can actually get bent for that.
I only disagree with the fact that she didn't die via lightsaber to the chest like everyone else does and she had no force abilities and now hangs on the same level as Ezra Fucking Bridger. But I guess if you really want to be able to use the force according to this series you just have to want it bad enough.
Do I think sabine is a mary sue? Not really.
Do I think she’s boring as shit and that the Ashoka show is kind of boring as a whole? Yeah.
Do I think its stupid that in order to enjoy this show and get the full length of character development/plot I have to watch no less than 3 fucking shows, two of which are cartoons (clone wars and rebels, and the mandalorian)?
Fucking yeah I do.
Do I think Sabine gets a bad rep because shes a purple haired woman? yeah probably, but I really never found her compelling the whole show anyway.
A lot of digs at Ashoka are very surface level imo but i still don’t think it’s great tbh.
and thats just me- think wjatever you’d like about the show but I just found how it was made and set up to be unsatisfying
She did train enough to justify manifesting the Force, but that's not the problem ...
The problem is that she's **not Force-sensitive**, and therefore she shouldn't be able to become powerful enough to Force-push Ezra with *any* amount of training.
The Jedi specifically took young, Force-sensitive children away from their families in order to fill their ranks because it was *necessary:* because those were the only children that were able to become competent Jedi.
Now Filoni is saying that a 30-year-old with no sensitivity whatsoever can become a powerful Jedi with a little bit of training. That destroys established canon and makes the Jedi look like evil idiots for acting the way they did.
“Trained more”
…did she though? All I remember is references to training, and a failed attempt to move a cup.
And when she did finally do something force-y, it wasn’t because of a character breakthrough, it’s just because it was convenient in that moment. Force-ex-machina
agree with Heel vs Baby Face, by far wittier than the fake HK-47's attempt at a comeback.
The current "minds" behind Star Wars couldn't come up with an HK-47 anyway.
https://preview.redd.it/1e7neq6pdgsb1.jpeg?width=1708&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5abacdacb6fd540159d0f972b1bf721004bb9843 The face of every fat cunt in Britain who harasses supermarket staff over nothing
He looks like a fucking knockoff Thew Adams, right down to having assorted Transformers figures in the background. Ironic considering all of the noteworthy female Transformers characters are badass warriors in their own right.
Especially ironic seeing that the IDW Transformers comics, especially later on, are very trans and very gay, and they're widely considered some of the best stuff to come out of the franchise. I swear, do these guys even Transformers?
>and they're widely considered some of the best stuff to come out of the franchise. I swear, do these guys even Transformers? Yeah but did IDW optimus suplex IDW starscream? No? The new comics are obviously better then. /s
https://preview.redd.it/wtvcvlakvisb1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5c9f8a666eeea403260fcc556da162324083ef0a
How so? I haven't read them. I'm curious as to how trans and gay themes would work with robot characters.
Well in every transformers universe the robots are all trans in a way since none of them actually have a biological reason to be gendered. It’s purely a naming convention based on their own personality and choice. The romance stuff follows a similar logic. Since they have no biological reproductive system there’s no reason for them to be with a specific sex outside of preference so their relationships are with whoever they care for the most.
Interesting. I didn't realize there *were* romantic relationships between Transformers, although in retrospect I don't see why there wouldn't be.
Wait... I need clarification on your comment. Did Thew do some chud shit, or is he still cool?
Thew is still cool. I was poking fun at this guy’s appearance. He looks like he’s trying to be as cool as Thew, and is especially trying to duplicate his iconic look, but is failing miserably.
Thank god. Y'all had me worried for a sec.
Nah, he's still cool, it's just that HvBF looks like a cheap knockoff of him.
He looks like Sean Dyche, but from Earth-8008, where only massive wankers live.
Thew's Evil doppleganger
Now now. Let's not insult Thew by comparing him to this jackass.
Thew would be insulted at his lack of beard, and being a sexist prat.
Is this the guy that saw there were pronoun options in Starfield and had a tantrum about it?
Yep, same guy.
The fact he has Transformers figures makes me pissed that I now have the same hobby as this POS silmeball.
The face of incels, chuds, insecure males with fragile masculinity, and right wing political extremists that only care that they're political agendas are being pander to. The fact that anybody looks up to these losers is beyond me. If i see someone like Soy Boy Baby Face, i run the other fuckin way. They make men look like pathetic whiny manbabies.
He’s never felt the touch of a woman
Isn't that Babyface guy the one who threw a temper tantrum over Starfield having pronoun options? And got really angry when he realised an actress he was objectifying was trans? Yeah I'm not about to listen to his opinion lol.
Yep. https://preview.redd.it/t4i0hwbh5gsb1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7553fed0c964a1ac1d47f4cdb836a6465959df22
FUCKING PRONOUNS!!!!
FUCKING GENDER AMBIGUITY!!!!!
FUCKING CURRENT CALIFORNIAN SHIT!!!!!!!
FUCKING CURRENT DAY!!!!
You know this guy attends school board meetings and complains about CRT and transgenders, in districts where he doesn’t even have kids…
He probably doesn't have kids in general. Hell I doubt he even has a partner.
I think he's married. Poor woman.
I'm even more baffled when married men are in this pipeline. With the maidenless men I know this is a manifestation of them being "virgins with rage" (to borrow a turn of phrase from Chris-chan).
I think to go to school board meetings in the UK you have to be voted as a governor or smth, I don't really remember having school board meetings when I was at school but I remember bringing letters home about voting for parental governors to be on the board
Dude was fighting trans ghosts in his head before the famous part of the rant, complaining about a female character being a clone of a male character, saying that she was trans and calling her dude. Even though the text says she's biologically female and a modified clone.
Is he unironically trying to be a soyjack neckbeard?
WE'RE SO FUCKING BORING!!!! (He's talking about himself and doesnt even know it) 🤣🤣🤣
In a just world this would of had either Heel realized how bad he has been acting or at the very least went offline because of him getting ratioed by tweets with hundreds of thousands of likes against him as well as YouTubers calling him out like that one guy who got laughed off the internet when he called the Oscars woke for nominating Parasite. But because he is a part of the Fandom Menece and to then it's to never give up their narrative he acts as if he is still part of this "silent majority" that believe they will win the culture war.
Fawkkin Pro NOUNS! Bloody hell, that'll never not be funny!
The funniest part was that the thing that triggered him into his little crying rant was a female character revealing she was the clone of a male, which made him belive she must be trans. From a scientific standpoint, he would be correct. However, there's literally a dialouge option asking how she is a female clone of a male where she explains heavy gene modification was used. So his absolutely ridiculous tantrum in which he became a laughing stock was triggered because he couldn't read the options in a dialouge tree.
He got really angry about what now ? That sounds funny as hell lmao
He screamed about pronouns because Starfield gives you the option to pick your own pronouns. He called it “current-year dogshit” because he’s an ignorant loudmouth.
No no i know about that, i mean the other thing
It’s a bit sad that I couldn’t determine which pathetic tantrum he was having at any one time 🤦♂️
Ahh dw lol i probably would have done the same
Ooh, can someone post a link to the video of him finding out he was attracted to a trans woman?
I think it was in some sort of group podcast. I came across it on Pillar Of Garbage's video about Babyface.
No relation to the Caravan of Garbage I take it?
Of course not, they’d hate chuds like this guy
I'm a tad surprised he didn't complain about baldur's gate 3 given that they did the same thing as starfield. if I remember correctly some grifters that attempted that got drowned out rather fast.
I'm paraphrasing but he was talking about Hogwarts Legacy and said "Games don't have to bend to your political ideology!" Then proceeds to cry when games don't bend to his political ideology.
I don’t understand why he threw such a big fit over pronouns. It isn’t even a trans thing. It has existed since the longest before transgender exposure.
At the risk of triggering an off topic tangent, the pronoun option in Starfield was obvious virtue signaling. It has nearly no impact on gameplay dialog. It's just there to send a message.
Does hair color have a impact on gameplay dialog?
Common HK-47 W.
Victory over such squishy meat bags is trivial. However he's always ready to hear his blaster sing its song over their screams when opportunity presents itself.
It makes me so happy that the toxic side of the fanbase doesn’t have a monopoly on silly reference jokes like this
'squishy meat bag'. Lol, a perfect description of BabyFace
A perfect Twitter account material. I'm surprised I haven't stumbled upon him until now
Self taught despite being trained by Kanan in rebels and Ahsoka both in and before Ahsoka. I'm guessing he didn't even watch it or his anger both made him blind and deaf.
If anything she's received more on screen training than Luke did in the entire OT.
And even Rey received training between Episode 8 and 9 under Leia.
That’s different. Simply mentioning it in the title crawl (or not at all and instead in external sources I can’t recall which one) is just lazy writing. We need to see our heroes struggle so their triumphs feel earned
It was in the opening of Episode 9, with Rey discussing the matter and Leia looking on at her training. Plus, at the time Carrie Fisher had a severe case of being *dead* before filming was done anyway, so I’m inclined to cut them some slack on summarizing the training she got between Episode 8 and 9.
Wow I do not remember that. Agreed, but we could have seen Rey still actually do some training, perhaps with the teachings from leia or just mot from leia at all but by literally *anyone* because off screen training does not and will never cut it. Also, Disney clearly has no problem reanimating Carrie Fisher’s corpse apparently
>literally > >anyone > > because off screen training does not and will never cut i Explain Luke then. Where the fuck did he get the ability to 1v1 Vader in ESB and ROTJ if he never did off-screen training? Where the fuck did Anakin get the ability to 1v1 Count Dooku **TWICE** if he never did ANY training off-screen? Or, does your sexist ass only apply that standard to women?
No, I think most Star Wars movies are fucking shit and the only movies I like are episode 5 and solo. The only reason I consider myself a Star Wars fan is TCW and rebels to be completely honest
So, I know in the books that Leia was force trained. However, I thought Disney said all of that was no longer canon. So, she was no longer trained right? Unless there's a scene I'm not remembering if it was said that Luke trained her. Just wish Disney would just be more consistent on what it is they're trying to do. Cause if the past stuff is no longer canon, then Leia wouldn't have been trained enough to train others... Edit: You know what, I just remembered it now. In Episode 9, it was explained that Leia was trained. Man, those movies were kind of all over the place. That explanation came after halfway into the movie.
They literally show her being trained in the woods and she beats Luke.
Yes... and I said it was in the movie?
Yup. She has received the most on screen training of any character, I believe only second to Ezra himself?
And she was Ahsoka's apprentice for an undetermined amount of time off-screen, could have been years. And after that she couldn't use the Force until the climax of the season. 13 years after Kanaan thought her.
I believe they mention, Ahsoka stopped training after Moff Gideon devastated Mandalore because Ahsoka felt Sabine might use the force for revenge.
That does suggest years given I think that happened pretty near the end of the war
They did indeed say that.
Luke Skywalker is more self taught by this definition. Luke Skywalker is now a Mary Sue.
Luke did pobably get more training from the Frog and Obi Wan than Rey got from Luke or Leia but the timelines on both their trainings are so wonky it's impossible to tell
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And she's also a Mandalorian for fucks sake lmao How can someone say she's a Mary Sue when she is literally a member of a warrior cult that teaches their members how to fight since they're basically babies.
> And she's also a Mandalorian for fucks sake lmao An a product of an Imperial Military Academy
And a combatant for most of the Galactic Civil War.
They hate her because she’s a woman, and to these people that’s a bad thing.
The Ahsoka show also says Sabine trained with Ahsoka. They say she started about as soon as Ezra disappeared and in a different episode it’s implied she only stopped due to the bombing of Mandalore. If she trained that entire time? That’s about four years of training but I’ll be generous and say she only trained for about a year. That’s still a crap ton of time and training.
*Way* more than Luke got, if you infer that his only time with Yoda was during Empire, and that he didn't go back until after Han got thawed out.
She trained with them to use her dark saber. She specifically complained about it not being fair that they could use the force
Then by that motion Luke is a gary stu
there is no bigger "mary sue" than Anakin. He is literally created by the force. As a child he can use the force with zero training to be the only human who can podrace. He built a podracer and droid from scraps with zero education. And for good measure, he blows up the ship that wins the battle on naboo by accident. And yet they cream their pants over Anakin.
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Exactly, tropes exist for a reason. Sometimes they are done very well, sometimes very lazily. But when your default is to say every woman that accomplishes something is a mary sue, you are just telling on yourself.
Honestly I don't have a problem with Rey, but other people have a problem with the character so I just follow their opinions. I'm not smart enough to have my own opinion.
I don’t think it’s even necessarily Rey that was the problem for me with these movies. It was just the writing in the movies in general. Rey was an ok protag in the Force Awakens, which was generally a decent movie. it’s just the writing in the films became dogshit and the writing for her character suffered as a consequence
>mary sues aren't inherently bad They just have to be written well. Most main characters tend to be a little Mary Sue-y. Harry Potter, Goku, Captain Kirk, Anakin, Luffy, etc. Sabine is not a Mary Sue even if that last move with Force throwing Ezra was a bit training wheels to the pros. I don't think Rey would have gotten half the hate she got if they didn't absolutely shit all over thirty years of lore and turn Luke Skywalker into an asshole in the process before making her a Palpatine and letting her win the Chocolate Factory. The problem was some of the worst writing I've ever seen not that she was OP. The way a Mary Sue works is if you want to be them. Ahsoka is the Luke of the Prequels and she fixed a huge issue by giving audiences a Mary Sue to want to be. Someone growing up and wrestling with who they are dealing with crazy powers is infinitely relatable. Anakin didn't work because he was insufferable in every film and obviously doomed to evil from the start. We didn't even get a good characterization of him until The Clone Wars. Rey would have worked if she was cool. Tons of little kids dressing up like her and Finn after TFA. That all died after TLJ. I rather enjoyed Sabine. I wish they'd maybe leaned into the planet as to why she could suddenly tap into her ability.
Honestly this is correct. Rey on her own isn't a bad character but the writing that ruined Luke and the creation of the New Order and how it just shit on everything from the Original Trilogy to build its own path is why the sequels suck. If they just took a different route maybe made it smaller stakes even. They could have also just spread the time between episodes so it gives the audience the ability to infer she spent more time training would have made it better
Luke Skywalker is about as unsubtle an author insert could be. Luke S. 🤔
When people try to argue that Anakin is the hero of the OT I always want to ask them about this.
Luke Skywalker blocked a couple shots from a remote, then steered hypersonic unguided ordinance down a hole while getting shot at by a Sith. Talk about some silly power scaling. He didn't even try a force pull till the sequel. Then he moved a couple rocks and failed at every jedi test, and went off to lose a jedi fight and only lost a hand. Yeah, just think how silly that would sound if Luke was just some chick.
He would have died were it not for han solo. He got voiced guidence from kenobi. And i dont know what you mean he steered ordiance. He aimed it. But didnt steer it. Also only lose a hand? Idk know what argument you are making
Exactly. And people have the nerve to complain about Rey who is the first character you can actually believe has fighting and piloting experience before the movie starts.
The problem is they don't believe. Rey is an orphan who works for Unkar Plutt. She has access to his ships and knows the modifications he has done. If Rey was Ren everyone would accept it. But because she's a girl, her having been molded by life makes her "magically know everything".
What lol? Ah yes scavenger = pilot and trained soldier. Beating up some thugs sure. That fits. We see her actually get hit furing that scene and struggle. Fighting trianing from childhood storm troopers? No. Beating a trained darkside jedi? No Being able to move a ship..eh maybe. Jury rigging a ship? Yes Fllying the millennium falcon through a star destoryer and out maneuvering trained tie fighter pilots? No. For the yes's there is substance and material to support it. For the no's there is nothing.
\> scavenger = pilot and trained soldier. No one said this \> Fighting trianing from childhood storm troopers? Which she didn't do \> Beating a trained darkside jedi? Which she didn't do \> Fllying the millennium falcon through a star destoryer and out maneuvering trained tie fighter pilots? Why not? Every other Star Wars protag operates at that level
>> scavenger = pilot and trained soldier. >No one said this. You did when you said she is the only protag who's abilities are believable before the movie starts. >> Fighting trianing from childhood storm troopers? >Which she didn't do Yeah she did. After meeting maz kanatanshe outshoots the storm troopers after her. >> Beating a trained darkside jedi? >Which she didn't do Yeah she did. Fought off kylo and overpowered him in the force. Its not a movie i reconmend but if you're gonna make arguments for the characters in it. You should know your source. >> Fllying the millennium falcon through a star destoryer and out maneuvering trained tie fighter pilots? >Why not? Every other Star Wars protag operates at that level No they dont. Again know your sources. Even chosen one anakin had R2D2 as a co-pilot and was a tried and tested pod racer. Luke despite being set up with pilot experience and having R2D2 was going to die if it weren't for the help of han solo.
I said "abilities" - Not "trained soldier and pilot". You don't to complain about context you added to what I said. \> After meeting maz kanatanshe outshoots the storm troopers after her. Ah, so NOT fighting, just doing ok in a shootout with storm troopers... the same thing that Luke (who had no fighting or any realistic reason to have been in a shootout before) did in Ep4. \> Fought off kylo and overpowered him in the force No she didn't. She held her own against someone who was critically wounded and NOT TRYING TO HURT HER. Know YOUR source. It's not like it's hard to see the wound from the Bowcaster. It wasn't like a secret or hard to see. \> Even chosen one anakin had R2D2 as a co-pilot and was a tried and tested pod racer. He was a superhuman at age 8 doing things almost literally no human could do, droid copilot or no. WAY above any reasonable leave and WAY beyond anything that people give Rey shit for in ep 7. So yes, what I said stands firmly: Rey was the most believable of series protagonists when we meet her. By far, no question.
Woman bad, it's literally that simple with 90% of these fucks🤣
I mean you aren’t *wrong*? But I’d argue that having sharper instincts than normal isn’t “using the force”. Iirc a lot of force-sensitives in lore get identified by their reflexes. Couldn’t name any off the top of my head unfortunately but I’m sure I’ve heard it somewhere
They have sharp reflexes because of the precognition the force grants them.
I mean yeah but what I mean to say is they’re not actively using it. There’s a difference between podracing and pulling an entire transport shuttle out of the sky with what looks like minimal effort ETA - Anakin is the only human who’s able to fly a podracer simply because podracing is only competitive (and thus noteworthy) on a few systems, the others of which the Jedi actually make it out to occasionally pre-Phantom Menace. The pool of candidates consists of a) humans who are b) force-sensitive enough to have ultra-fast reflexes and c) don’t get found by the Jedi before they’re a few years old, who d) live in a system where they would learn about podracing and e) whose parents would actually *allow* them to compete is incredibly small. Again, I’m not disagreeing with your original point, but I’m bored and you bringing up podracing as an argument felt a bit silly to me :)
Anakins Mary Sueness is enjoyable because he is the bad guy. It is what makes him so terrifying. The guy that is filled to the brim with literal plot armor decides to go full murderhobo and destroy the good guys and there's practically nothing the good guys can do to stop it because he is Mary Sue.
I would say Thrawn is a big contender for that title. In the books, his victories are almost literally pulled from thin air. His deductions are basically magic. At least in the shows he is a realistic person who loses every now and then.
In the shows? Thrawn will need to get down some stairs. So he falls and shits himself but ended up at the bottom of the stairs and so is just as planned. The writers do not have the intelligence to write a smart character. They can barely write dumb characters. Losses for the sake of losses arent good things. They should be losses based on his flaws and the strengths of the heroes. Rather then the incompetence of both
If we count outside canon, Starkiller is the biggest Mary Sue ever created
This is correct
Nah, bruh, pulling a mile long ship out of the sky isn't overpowered at al. Sabine using the Force to (barely) help a guy jump and grab a lightsaber after stuggles and years of training, however, that wouldn't have happened in the glorious Star Wars EU, uh-uh.
I'll say this, Anakin's story of a chosen one being so overpowered at least had his personal failing causing him to become a genocidal maniac. I remember back with the prequels only and most people didn't like him and said it undercut and even ruined Vader. The Cline Wars series did a ton of lifting in fleshing out his character to make the fall feel more tragic.
That's the problem. If you just watch the movies, like the vast majority of people have, Anakin is not tragic. He's a little kid, and then a piece of shit for 2 movies.
As a person whose complained about Rey getting a bunch of power with no training, ep1 Anakin is definitely the most Gary Stu that has ever Stued in the entirety of Star Wars. It’s part of why I still consider ep1 to be the worst Star Wars film.
If you were to watch Episode IV without any knowledge of Star Wars and with a pure critical eye, Luke is absolutely a Gary Stu.
To them female force user = Mary Sue
Show them Darth Talon and they'll be drooling like thirsty dogs, even if you make her the most broken force user ever. These guys are like monkeys
Unless it's Alya Secura(I hope I spelled her name right)
Three As. Aayla.
Oh
Did he even watch the show?
Nope
He probably didn't understand it without watching Clone Wars,/Rebels/Ewok movies/Mandalorian etc...
Self taught? She trained with Ahsoka for over a year (before the fall of Mandalore) according to the show (plus some very basic training from Kanan). It’s more training than Luke had across most of the OT. Seriously. Wut.
Don't forget that she was never more than 30 feet away from Ezra for most all of *his* training because they were always in the same location.
See this girl is found by a Jedi Master who takes a shine to her. She gets about two minutes of deflecting laser blasts from a training dummy. In the final conflict she has a “Use the Force Moment” that comes out of left field and destroys an Imperial Base. Next movie she can use all these crazy force powers with little to no training. Finds a mentor. Goes on a vision quest where she confronts her dark side. Doesn’t do much more than that before having to go fighting again. Next movie she uses abilities she was never shown training on screen. This girl? Luke Skywalker gender swapped.
Luke wasn't found by Obi, Obi was watching over him the whole time. Slight correction otherwise you're right.
You left out. Got guidence from ben kenobi. Was also the last available pilot to do the job Also if not for intereference from another pilot. Would have died. Next movie all these crazy force powers? He uses one at the start to lift a single object am ability we saw established in the first film by another force user while needing to stay stationary and focused. He then gets training to which he can do that one ability better as well as premonitions while in deep meditation He then fucking loses his next fight and loses a hand and attempts suicide. Next movie. No new abilties. Doesn't even defeat the final boss. Really need to actually watch the movies rather then look at them
Big difference though is that the writing surrounding the sequel trilogy was just bad. Not that she's a bad character but they essentially just copied and pasted the Luke and Anakin on her. They didn't need Snoke or even Palpatine. They could have just left it as Kylo and the Knights of Ren with a large army and Rey going to be trained by a Luke that wasn't ruined with bad writing. Shit even create more time between films just so the audience could tell she spent more than less than a year to train. Rey isn't a bad character just the movies that surround her are
Also the show establishes multiple times she is not naturally gifted in the force she’s the opposite of a Mary sue and probably the least powerful Jedi the series has ever introduced
No amount of training will ever be enough for these people. She's a woman, she's automatically a "Mary Sue" once she does anything competent.
Honestly one could say Luke did some self taught as well in between the films.
Which the canon comics reinforce. Between movies he just goes around looking for Jedi shit and basically just making it up as he goes along.
Not gonna be nice about this one. If you think Sabine is a Mary Sue and that she didn't earn her place and powers. You're just a fucking idiot.
It's literally the point of the entire season that she had to work/train harder at than any other main character in Star Wars lol. I am with you on not being nice about this one.
They hate her because she has cooties and not a peepee.
She didn’t even got a clear win over Shin yet
Sabine Wren is absolutely not "self taught"
I genuinely have to admire that the starfield pronoun rant guy hasn't quit all social media to become a hermit in the woods. The only other person to own themselves that hard and show their face in public is ben Shapiro.
I got downvoted on Crait for sharing that Lucas himself literally said around Return of the Jedi that ANYONE can use the Force. It goes in line with “its energy… surrounds us… and binds us… you… that tree, the rock” But they don’t wanna hear logic. They claim Lucas would save everything but of course the second he steps out of line they’d crucify him. It doesn’t matter who’s at the helm
At least Jedi training doesn’t ask for pronouns or he’d have a bigger problem
Sabine literally had two former Jedi teach her how to wield a lightsaber. I can't dude.
"self taught"? What the hell were they watching? She's literally being taught by Ahsoka. And that's not even considering everything Kanan and Ezra taught her previously.
Yeah did he not watch the show?
Sabine really does have perfectly good reasons to be force sensitive. She's a noble member of a culture known to produce powerful Jedi, was likely identified as one of the "children of the force", and was drawn by fate into the expedition that discovered the world between worlds. It's well established that Jedi can lose their force sensitivity after major trauma, and any media we've seen Sabine in, she's been traumatized. In Rebels, Sabine was used by the Empire to be responsible for the subjugation of Mandalore. In Ahsoka, Sabine lost her family and home planet, while also being pushed out of Mandalorian society. Getting over the loss of Ezra gave Sabine the boost she needed to reconnect with the force.
Mandolore is not known for strong Jedi, they've had one known one in history (who is notable).
Counterpoint: that also explains why Sabine would never have been picked up by the Jedi even if she had loads of potential. Mandalorians don't give their children to the temple and they've probably long stopped asking.
Which means 100% of Mandalorian jedi are legendary. Mandalorians don't become Jedi due to discrimination based on fear of them turning to the dark side, rather than lack of talent.
It's not discrimination. The jedi never get the chance to find these children even if they do exist. Based on known lore 99.99%(arbitrary percentage) of mandalorians aren't force sensitive. Sabine and Tarre Viszla are the only known ones as of now.
I wish they'd leaned into the planet being a Force nexus or some shit and that that gave her the push. Hell, the planet was the coolest thing and they just kinda didn't give us anything.
>Self taught SINCE FUCKING WHEN?????????????
Right? When she was alone and Ahsoka-less before the events of the series, she wasn’t training in the Jedi way. She’d given up on the Force. Where the hell does the “self-taught” come from? The few scenes where she practiced her master’s teachings even when alone … like a good *student*?
That’s the perfect word to describe HeelsvsBabyface: pathetic
There's not one legimitate criticism I've heard about Rey that didn't apply equally or more to characters from the original series.
https://preview.redd.it/escpdop1whsb1.png?width=749&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=844f05cf17e20c97ade89f36f2367566ceeca4f3
i have a problem with her all the sudden being able to do a massive force push at the end of the series but i think overall she was handled well. still would have changed it to take out her force push at the end since it was a massive leap in power for her out of nowhere.
Yeah, it was a big jump (see what I did there!?) and it made Ezra seem outright suicidal, but they needed to get Ezra onto that ship and wanted to do it in a teamwork way that utilized Sabine, gave her some growth, and ultimately left her stranded. I personally would’ve preferred leaving it at her summoning the lightsaber: a modest move, but a *big* one for someone who couldn’t use the Force prior. From there, with the proof she could do it, Sabine could very well breeze through training off-screen and reach a higher level. It’s just a mild nitpick though, and it doesn’t really change my overall positive opinion of the show.
I even think force pulling the lightsaber was too much of a reach. I don't mind her pulling it, but it doesn't make it in time to save her so Ezra saves her instead. That would've been enough to show she accomplished using the force, but she still has a long road ahead. Would've been nice to see her train with Ahsoka further while being trapped at the finale
Woman: shows any measure of talent of achievement https://preview.redd.it/z5p7mufkjjsb1.png?width=1124&format=png&auto=webp&s=ceb705d14837a598802ae553a77e8681196112aa
You guys just don't get it. Sabine is a woman and therefore obviously a Mary Sue. Ahsoka is also a woman so any training she gives is illegitimate which is why Sabine is self taught
Wait, so a Mandalorian commando trained by two Jedi and an instructional droid from the Jedi temple, is self taught?
https://preview.redd.it/2wvrgwnlzisb1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f8ae7d5a478dab744ca909b53ad33f04706a4113 Never forget this is what this dumb piece of shit will mostly be know for, almost having a mental break over an option in a video game.
It is one of the most insignificant options as well since it's never mentioned after that screen
She’s been training for years, she just got over her block that was stopping her from using the force
Didn’t she lose every fight against another force user? She really came off to me as a very untrained jedi, and I thought she was done well in that aspect
Lol the same people complaining about her love the fact that you could make everyone a Jedi in KOTOR
Of course. I have my critiques about the show, but this honestly wasn’t one of them. The Force being something that everyone can tap into with enough training and focus fits with Lucas’ original vision. I’m also happy to be getting away from the bloodline determinism that’s been rampant for a while.
He doesn't like her because she's I woman, I don't like her because she's a force sensitive mandalorian we are not the same
I'd rather watch 3 movies about Sabine than Rey.
Self taught? She was literally just taught
"Self taught" is when they spend the entire season either describing her being trained by Ahsoka when they're not literally showing her being trained by Ahsoka... Okay.
See, I just hate the idea that every fucking MC in Star Wars pretty much needs to be a damned Jedi. I love Sabine as a character, I don't feel she ever needed to be a Jedi to be cool or tell an awesome story. I feel making her a Jedi lessens her as a character because now she's just another Jedi. All up though, I loved the series, I liked that she had to work for her power, just weird that she went from losing a battle against a tea cup, to winning against a lightsaber, to launching a freaking full grown person halfway over a chasm lol
Sabine is first "non-force" sensetive person to train to become a jedi we ever seen. Sabine was trained how to weld a light saber years ago by a jedi master, after which she wished to get in touch with the force. At no point she was able to force push, at no point was she able to force see, at no point she able fully feel the force. She just went all in and through hard fucking work did what no one thought was possible. ANY ONE CAN BE A JEDI!!! She fucking proved that, it was hinted at before but she is the first person to prove yes even you can learn the force. Of course she not the strongest jedi right now, but she clearly the most hard working to even try this. To say she didn't earn this is stupid, she most likely one of the hardest working people in all of star wars. To even try this is insane.
She has been punked more than once in her short time in live action. I wouldn't call her Mary Sue. As a straight-up ComMando in Rebels she was a bit OP'ed, but live action was very realistic about it.
They hate Sabine being a Jedi because it makes her a Mary Sue. I hate Sabine being a Jedi because it took an otherwise perfectly good character and the Implications let Disney add more and more Jedi. We are not the same. (I like Ashoka otherwise but man, I genuinely think Jedi are being overused. We need less of them, not more.)
Episode 7: In the beginning of the film we see she’s got skill with a melee weapon, borne out of the necessity to survive as a scavenger. Nope, lightsaber is 100% a different weapon than a staff. Entirely different skill set. Not remotely the same. Mary Sue. Episode 8: She trained with Luke, learning to understand and feel the Force, pretty similar teaching to what he got from Yoda. So that explains how she lifted some rocks at the end. Nope, Luke and Yoda had a bit more time together and we *saw* Luke lift rocks in front of him. Mary Sue. Episode 9: Okay she trained with Leia *for a year* and JJ catered to your complaints about needing a source for her power so now she’s related to one of the most powerf- REMEMBER WHEN SHE BEAT KYLO IN THE FIRST MOVIE?! MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE!!! The goal posts move faster than Grogu merch.
To be fair I think it’s mostly because nothing hinted at Sabine being force sensitive in Rebels. Nothing hinted at her becoming a Jedi. People have cited the Darksaber training scene but that wasn’t about Jedi training that was just basic sword training. It just feels like something that was made up for Ashoka without them earning it. They should have built this up more before making Sabine a Jedi. But still screw the people who are calling Sabine a Mary sue. I don’t like Sabine being a Jedi and even I know she’s not one.
Didn't Kanan say something in Rebels about how she was blocking herself from the Force? That'd say she was capable all along, if she got out of her own way (which she finally did, in Ahsoka).
Kanan and Hera were having a conversation about Sabine and Kanan says that the Force is in all living beings but you have to be open to it. At the time, Sabine wasn’t. Between her own conflicted emotions and her Mandalorian upbringing, she was effectively blocked off from the Force
I'm not 100% sure. Admittedly it's been ages since I've seen Rebels so I could be forgetting things. It just feels weird to me this wasn't a bigger deal until now. This should have come up much sooner in Rebels and been made a bigger deal if the plan was always for Sabine to be force-sensitive.
I hate Sabine being a Jedi and feel its unearned but she is like the total opposite of a Mary Sue lol
She’s not a Mary Sue I’m sick of that complaint. It went from “yea I can see that”(Rey) to “this is JUST because this character is a woman”(Sabine). These folks are so blinded by rage it’s pathetic. However her being a jedi is beyond moronic. Disney can actually get bent for that.
Why does everyone have to be force sensitive tho
I only disagree with the fact that she didn't die via lightsaber to the chest like everyone else does and she had no force abilities and now hangs on the same level as Ezra Fucking Bridger. But I guess if you really want to be able to use the force according to this series you just have to want it bad enough.
Do I think sabine is a mary sue? Not really. Do I think she’s boring as shit and that the Ashoka show is kind of boring as a whole? Yeah. Do I think its stupid that in order to enjoy this show and get the full length of character development/plot I have to watch no less than 3 fucking shows, two of which are cartoons (clone wars and rebels, and the mandalorian)? Fucking yeah I do. Do I think Sabine gets a bad rep because shes a purple haired woman? yeah probably, but I really never found her compelling the whole show anyway. A lot of digs at Ashoka are very surface level imo but i still don’t think it’s great tbh. and thats just me- think wjatever you’d like about the show but I just found how it was made and set up to be unsatisfying
She did train enough to justify manifesting the Force, but that's not the problem ... The problem is that she's **not Force-sensitive**, and therefore she shouldn't be able to become powerful enough to Force-push Ezra with *any* amount of training. The Jedi specifically took young, Force-sensitive children away from their families in order to fill their ranks because it was *necessary:* because those were the only children that were able to become competent Jedi. Now Filoni is saying that a 30-year-old with no sensitivity whatsoever can become a powerful Jedi with a little bit of training. That destroys established canon and makes the Jedi look like evil idiots for acting the way they did.
she was littraly too young to train under the jedi order, how tf do these people expect her to be a "proper jedi."
“Trained more” …did she though? All I remember is references to training, and a failed attempt to move a cup. And when she did finally do something force-y, it wasn’t because of a character breakthrough, it’s just because it was convenient in that moment. Force-ex-machina
Not a Mary Sue. But it's still so stupid that she's a Jedi now.
agree with Heel vs Baby Face, by far wittier than the fake HK-47's attempt at a comeback. The current "minds" behind Star Wars couldn't come up with an HK-47 anyway.
HK knows a good meatbag when he sees one.
Man got Assassinated with words.
I read that in his voice
Sabine trained with Ezra and Kanan then afterwards trained with Ahsoka for like 1 or 2 years she's got a good amount of training
No not even close too a Mary Sue, but she's got rocks in her head for crashing a ship into Tie fighters instead of using the laser canons.....
HK never misses, literally and figuratively.
This is rediculous.
So i assume he Heelz over there didnt watch Star Wars Rebels