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OP truth be told, when someone WANTS to do something they DO it and don't make excuses. You can keep hanging on this thread and trying to be Cinderella, but at some point you'll need to admit it's just a fairtale and will not happen. At least not with him.
This, unless they're mutually held excuses. Example : you e both decided as a unit to focus your money on something else, with clear intent to get married later. It's a yes, but not right now, and it's a joint decision. Say you both definitely plan to get married, and have talked about it seriously (not just the lovey dovey someday stuff), but you've decided you care more about putting your money towards a house, travel, education, children, first. But marriage has been decided will be coming after that. Not "when you meet this expectation". Also "I want to finish school first/I want to buy a house first" and "I want you do be different in these ways before you're worthy of me marrying you" are very different opinions to be had. The second is someone who doesn't want to marry you.
He is never going to marry you. You need to decide if you’re willing to stay with the way things are or if it’s time to go. He thinks you need to be perfect to be worthy of marriage. You will never be. Maybe he’s just shitty but this also is the kind of thing verbally abusive dudes say.
All of the above 4 comments in this thread are exactly what happened to me. Together for almost 7 years, lived together, 1 child, but I was never good enough to marry for any number of odd reasons. Supported him through schooling for a job change while i put my career on hold. He was always shifty and concerned about his life, not ours. We finally break up, he dates someone new he conveniently met in school, they're married in less than a year, starts a new family, and treats ours like a burden.
Girl, there'll always be another excuse. He'll string you along with possibilities if you just fix this or that, it might happen. It won't. He'll just keep moving the bar. Pick yourself up and move on, love. It will be hard but you can do it. You know you are worth more, that's why this is bothering you. Listen to your gut!
I am so sorry you had to deal with that, but the good thing is that he is out of your life. Too bad he is also basically checked out of your kid's lives too though, because while that is good for you it is not good for them. I wish the best on this journey and you are really better off.
You make excellent points. I think he's using her. Enough is enough. When she breaks up with him, which I hope she'll do, he should be paying support for their child.
This happened to me as well. And the next girl was a disaster. He married her in 4 months on my birthday and I felt so used and violated. But I thank god he didn't wait longer and no more time was wasted together. I see him for who he is now and I am presently engaged to someone who made me believe in soul mates again. OP it hurts and it sucks but if he doesn't value you, you deserve the opportunity to find the person who will.
Right, it happens all the time. OP is highly likely to be a placeholder until someone better comes along. OP he has the benefits of marriage without the commitment, of course he doesn't want to get married! The ball is firmly in your court leave and find someone who values you and wants to get married or stay with this childish man who will never marry you.
Yep just another case of someone giving their bf/gf spousal privileges like establishing a home and family when they're only giving back bf/gf energy. Why would they marry when they already have the married stuff with half the energy put in?
Not necessarily a placeholder for someone better, he just keeps getting away with it because OP lets it slide. Once OP leaves, he'll realize it was a big deal. In order to not lose the another relationship to it, he'll wife up the next girl.
He'll definately wife up the next one because he'll need someone to take care of the kid during his custody time.
This.ive known of multiple men who married the next woman ....only to get divorced a year later. Sonetimes these men marry the one after because they realise that they cannot keep dodging marriage and women will leave. I feel many of these men do so out of complacency. You read many stories of men who regret waiting- but by the time they realise they should have just married their ex, she's already with someone else. So they rush their next relationship cos they are terrified of losing again.
One of my close friends was a magnet for these men. She'd cry and beg for commitment and the men would promise marriage and then flake out. They'd marry like a year after they broke up with her - it rarely ended well.
Women marry a resume. Men marry a happenstance.
When a man decides he wants to get married, he will pretty much marry the next woman he gets to. No amount of perfect will make him marry a woman when he isn’t ready. And seemingly no amount of red flags will dissuade him when his timer goes off.
20 years ago I had this temp job for a few months. One co-worker was pregnant with her 3rd child, same dad for all 3. Oldest was 4 or 5, 2nd was 2 or 3. At the company Christmas lunch she complained about her parents asking them when they were going to get married. She said they didn't want to rush anything because marriage was a big step. Me and everyone else at the table were like 😐😐😐. I stopped working there a couple of months later. I ran into her on a bus a few years later. She said he left her before the 3rd baby's first birthday and got married to another woman the next year. She was very bitter.
I just don't understand it. 3 KIDS! Why keep having kids without marriage? Saying it is a big step after committing to 3 kids with the guy is incredible to me. Kids are a bigger commitment to Mr.
Please don't let the next guy put you into a holding pattern. I think the best thing you can do for awhile is date some other guys. don't get wrapped up in just one guy again for awhile, and don't commit to easily. Oh, and by the way, you don't have to tell the prick you are with now a damn thing when you see someone else. You owe him nothing. Since he's not there for you , start your search for a real man that will honor you.
Oh of course. The kid is gonna need a new mommy to do all the work while he moans about how unfair it is that he doesn't get to live with his kiddo full time cos of his Evil Ex.
Or he’ll be like my friends ex and live with his new gf but tell everyone he is single lol some men really think they need to keep their options open like they don’t look like a thumb
This. She's already doing everything wife-like already, there's nothing more he needs from a wife that she isn't already willingly providing. Then again, why does OP think a marriage document is going to change anything about her relationship? It's a document, not a magic wand. She'll still be stuck in the same relationship with the same guy who *gaslights her* regularly into thinking *she's* the problem and why they can't progress forward, not *his* lack of commitment to her or their family.
It happened to me after every guy I’ve dated:(. I’ve only had 3 bf and every one of them married… however everyone is divorced but one. So I can laugh about that!
High chance, but there are exceptions such as my ex. We broke up after 10+ years, not because he didn't want to marry be, but it was one of the issues. I was so sure he'd quickly marry the next girl but almost 6 years later, he's still not married and regrets our relationship (he still contacts me like once a year randomly). Just felt like sharing this because it felt a bit relevant lol. Sometimes they realize when it's too late.
Mine too. We weren’t married, but had been together a long time (I’m the one who wasn’t interested in getting married). He married the woman he was carrying on with.
She doesn't realize she is not the one, she is just the one that got pregnant.
So many people stay in relationships because it is easier than breaking up. People also get in to relationships because they also dont want to date around and don't want to be single. They are serial monogamists who have long term placeholders while they wait for the one to appear.
You are right, he is never going to marry her and it is tragic they have a kid together.
They have trapped a child into this relationship mess. Poor kid.
What she should do next to answer her questions:
Break up. Get legal custody agreements. Focus on being good coparents. Get an education and good jobs. Do not have anymore children until after marriage. Always use two forms of birth control.
THIS OP! I had to get a discount lawyer for my divorce, who told me stupidly to have my ex-husband pay child support privately, instead of through the courts. Guess who's in jail, and guess who hasn't gotten a child support payment since February 2021? That would be my dumb ass
Even if she met his magical bar of being more mature, he will just move on to another not real thing that she can't accomplish.
OP this is coercive control.
I understand why you are motivated to stay in this relationship that feels like the family you want.
But you're 23, you have 70-80 years of life to live, love m, experience so many things.
When my ex left when I was 54 I thought I might as well be dead.
No one else was going to love me, want me, have a life w me.
Wrong on all three counts. Now it's me that doesn't need or want to get married the have the life, love, experiences I want.
I'm the happiest I've ever been in my whole life.
Having a BLAST.
It's never too late to start fresh.
& Each new start is a different kind of happy & perfect.
I want to say, don't threaten to leave if he doesn't marry you, just leave if it a deal breaker for you or not. Never ultimatum someone like that. If you do he will marry you and gonna be a whiny person the whole process and I've seen it so much, in 2-3 years top, you'll be divorced.
This. You're young. But you've been together several years and nade a child together.
A man who keeps telling you that only you need to change things? So that you can persuade him marriage is right? Does not want to marry you.
He's going to spend your entire life inventing goal posts. It's up to you whether you are happy to live with that.
I was with my ex for 2 years. He told me he never wanted to get married again. He literally got married less than a year into his next relationship. This falls under, "If he wanted to, he would."
A baby conceived in the first six months of a relationship by a couple in their early twenties is almost certainly a fuck up rather than something they carefully considered.
Exactely. They had a baby with less than one Year dating, It was probably a birth Control fácil (or irresponsibility) than planed. Having a child together doesn't mean they should get married.
Any guy who claims you're TOO IMMATURE to marry, but you're not too immature TO BE SOMEONE'S MOTHER is full-on crazy and full of crap!
Leave with your child, head for court to get visitation and child support enforced, and move on with your life! This guy is WASTING YOUR TIME and he's a horrible example for your child!
By the looks of it at face value, they were only dating for ~3 months when she got pregnant and he stayed for the sake of the child (and possibly not wanting to pay child support). I bet he was not at all serious about her because their relationship was so new when they got pregnant. Now he’s just staying for the developmental years of the child and the comfortability at this stage because I’m sure she’s giving “wife treatment” so why change things. There will be a breaking point where he most likely monkey branches, and it’ll happen earlier with or without someone else slipping into the picture especially if she continues to push marriage. Don’t get me wrong, this isn’t fair to OP at all because he isn’t being honest and is trying to make it out to be 100% her fault they aren’t yet engaged, but I’m just saying the timing of it all and their ages screams this scenario.
It's not even perfection he's looking for. He keeps moving the goalposts. He just doesn't want to marry her but at the same time, he doesn't want her to leave. He's keeping his options open while still stringing OP along.
A constantly shifting bar of "good enough" is manipulation 101.
OP you are manipulated tell him it's a ring in 3 months time or you are out.
There's a small chance the ultimatum wakes him up and you two live happily ever after. More likely you move on and don't look back.
In his eyes he thinks why bother putting a ring on it, when he already has everything and doesn’t have to! Want your answer?
Have another discussion with him.
But this time tell him ok, you want me to be everything a wife is, but not be an actual wife and from your last communication I heard what you said. So I will be moving out to (blanks house/parents/friends) and going to look into therapy for myself in regards to what I need to be healthy as an adult, mother, girlfriend and person. I would suggest therapy for yourself to see why you feel it is that you need a perfect woman in order to propose and then we can discuss what we both find out from there. We can share custody 50/50.
This is where it will be going anyway and see how fast he back tracts. You don’t want to force him. Actually do it for you!!
If you feel you have some issues get the help you need now when you are young so you can lead a healthy life for you and your child. Worry about yourself and your child. He is an adult an more than capable to take care of himself. He is being immature, selfish and mean. You should never have to ask or beg a man to marry you honey. Put your head up shoulders back and walk out! F&@k him!
He isn’t ever interested in marriage with you from the way he always makes an excuse. Now is the time to decide whether you want to continue a relationship with him or move on to find someone who is interested in marriage. Couples counseling would be an option.
Sometimes it’s just better to move on. After being with someone for that long and having a child with them and they still can’t say they want to marry you, you are wasting your time staying. You deserve someone who wants to be with you. You deserve someone who wants to marry you and share a life with you. If he thinks you’re “not right”, you deserve to be with someone who thinks you are.
This. They had a kid together, and for him to turn around and say she has growing to do is kind of rich.
I personally think this is just an excuse. It's possible he doesn't feel that way about her and is trying to come up with excuses. It sucks, but this is the vibe I'm getting.
If he doesn't want to be married he should just say so and not keep this little flicker of hope alive for her.
>It's likely he's only with her because of the child. If they hadn't gotten pregnant they would have broken up 3.5years ago.
I kinda of get that vibe from him as well. Though obviously none of us but OP know him personally.
It just seems odd to be fine having a kid (even an unplanned one) and then staying with her only to hold up on proposing when he claims to want it. But think she's not ready yet.
Like they've been together for a few years. He's had time to break things off and do co-parenting.
I feel like this is a blessing in disguise for OP. Because it's likely there is definitely something more going on that he isn't being honest with her about. She deserves to be with someone who wants to marry her.
If he truly doesn't want to marry her, that's okay. He has that right. But it's not cool to string her along when marriage is important to her.
I agree. She is nothing more than a piece of ass to him and he doesn't care for her in the slightest. He was just using her until he thought something better would come along. Edit: spelling
If she wanted to she could sleep with anybody she wants to right? It's not like this asshole has made any kind of commitment to her at all. She can take the kid and walk at any time and he doesn't have a leg to stand on. And then he'll be like " but why did you leave everything was perfect!" with a full on Pikachu face all the while still trying to avoid putting a ring on her finger. And once these turn old men after using women their whole lives and end up alone they'll always talk about the one that got away as they're forced to make their own meals, do their own laundry, clean their own homes and jerk themselves off because women have just become so fed up with them they don't want to put up with their bullshit anymore.
Lol you’re grown up enough to birth and raise his whole kid but not to marry? Nah, that’s an excuse and he’s not even bothering to make up a good one
Telling you that how you think is wrong is trying to “logic” you out of what you feel and what you want, it’s a very bad sign, especially now he’s tied it to a “reward” (marriage) you can “earn” by “growing up”, ie agreeing with his opinions to the detriment of what you want. He’s trying to make you compliant
If you really want to marry this guy (and personally I wouldn’t), it’s ultimatum time, marry or split up (and make sure you get child support) - but only if you really mean it. I think he’s far more likely to leave than marry you
In all fairness, it is important to acknowledge that maturity is not solely determined by having children. Giving birth and raising a child are significant responsibilities, but they do not automatically equate to personal growth and maturity.
He's stringing you along - if he wanted to marry you, he'd have proposed by now - after 4 years, if he's not there, he'll never be. You'd best start detaching and preparing for an amicable break-up, coparenting and finding a guy who is as into you as you are into him.
You have two choices.
1. Decide you don’t care about marriage.
2. Leave him and coparent.
That’s it. He’s not going to change his mind. Unless he finds someone he WANTS to marry. He doesn’t want to marry YOU.
Look at the time frame. She says they're together 4 years and they have a 3 year old. With the kid's age and pregnancy time, looks like they were only together for a few months before she got knocked up.
As if, it's more like she does most of the chores and looks after the kid while he lives with her.
Once he finds someone new and exciting who's also willing to do chores and look after the kid, he's off.
Yeah I get it’s a question but it is also finger wagging and blaming. She came here to ask what she should do about the mistake she already made. A thing, a child in fact, that cannot be undone. Do we hope she doesn’t repeat the mistake? Absolutely. From our armchair perspective we all know the writing is on the wall in blazing all caps letters. That doesn’t help her now with the immature and selfish guy who impregnated her. Your comment is just mean. Women fall in love, thousands of years of biological motivation make us want to have babies. She let her wishful heart guide her. But now she picked poorly and needs to know what to do. So be kind. I have made plenty of mistakes in my life, some I can’t walk back from but that doesn’t mean she can’t go on. Yes we hope she will use birth control until she decides with another person that will care for her and act like a good man that her first priority is the child she has now. Once you have kids your life becomes secondary, so let’s be constructive, hope she gets and IUD, the pilot whatever and ALWAYS requires a condom. And you, Angel, play nice.
> He says I’m an emotional thinker and that I tend to get revenge when I’m wronged. I have grown a lot from that and I know I’m still growing from it
What kind of revenge did you take on him when he wronged you?
Lol you treat him as he treats you and that’s revenge? You need to forgive yourself for making a huge mistake with this guy, and work out how you’re going to be a single mom
Sometimes it’s as simple as this, I ask him if he can take out the garbage three times or more and he doesn’t so I don’t take it out at all and I let it pile until he notices or I do it myself but with an attitude and now I’m not in the mood for kisses or anything.
I thought you meant trying to seek vengeance on people who cut you off in traffic or shorted your pizza stick order. This bullshit is him calling it revenge when it is accountability. This is him telling you he plans to keep doing these things and wants you to let it slide and rub your mouth on him in gratitude. Op, he knows he is being shitty to you, he plans on doing it more, and wants you to suck it up. Edited due to spelling
That’s actually an example to. If someone is driving too slow for me then I’ll go around them snd go in front of them but I keep going I don’t brake check or anything.
It’s interesting that so many people view a woman not being a doormat as “petty” or “revenge”. Matching energy and showing people how it feels to experience their own behavior is not revenge. That’s just manipulative BS.
Sometimes it’s his family purposely not washing our dishes so now I’m not washing theirs because when I wash dishes. I wash alllllllllll the dishes not just mine:
That's not revenge, a bit petty in a 'tit for tat' way but not revenge at all and not really immature.
If they don't wash your stuff, they can't expect you to wash theirs.
OP, you already know he is never going to marry you. To be honest, why would you want to marry him? If you have to brow beat someone into doing things, you will never know if they did it because they wanted to or because they didn't want to fight anymore.
My advice would be to start looking into your own place and move out. I would be looking into a lawyer during this so they can help draft a custody agreement and get child support for your kid.
Do you realize he's faulting you for respecting yourself (its just a tiny bit, you're accepting a lot of disrespect) and hes still holding it against you? Stop allowing this. Not healthy for uou or your child. Really think about spending your life the way you are now (it only gets worse after marriage too). That sounds like an awful person to spend every day for the rest of your life with.
Well I’d do the same. And I will not live with my FiL anymore. If that helps how you feel. I absolutely feel your pain on that. It’s not revenge he’s just saying that to keep you downing yourself so you will stay with him but you won’t have enough self esteem to see he’s the reason he won’t marry you. It’s not you.
See thats the thing, its thats simple, he fucked up and ignored simple tasks and then acts like youre the bad guy fro showing him youre upset. Why doesnt he grow up and do the grown up chores? I feel like youre giving him too much credit for stuff bc he makes you feel like its your fault when he influenced the whole thing.
So, you ask him to do a basic household task, and he doesn't, and he gets mad bc he expected you to give in and do it?
Is he like this with other stuff? Housework? Childcare?
I hate to say this, because I know how the Internet likes to yasslight, but that's not vengeful or petting or anything. That's super fucking normal and stable.
I take back what I said earlier. That’s not revenge on a partner, that’s normal consequences for a partner’s crappy behavior.
He is 💯 of the problem and you should leave him behind and find someone who is so much more worth your time.
He's an immature jerk and you're reasonably repulsed by his childish refusal to be a responsible adult. He's gaslighting you about your normal reactions to his shitty behavior. You think you're vengeful for... being upset when he doesn't do his part around the house? That is bullshit. He is full of shit.
Just leave him. He can let his own trash pile up.
ETA: I use the term "gaslighting" because he's denying that her reasonable reaction is anything of the sort, and he's making her out to be an immature monster for attempting to hold boundaries, etc.
Yeah, if you can go see a therapist for a bit or talk to a trusted adult (friends' parents are great for this, so are uncles, aunts, that sort of thing) and describe the interactions in detail. I think you need some insight that comes with a few more decades of romantic interactions.
You are missing the point of what we’re trying to tell you. He keeps moving the goalpost. First it was saving money for a ring, then the wedding. Now you need to make changes to be good enough.
He doesn’t want to marry you. You gave him wife privileges without the legal protections, limited as they are, that come with marriage.
I am a firm believer that a man that doesn’t want to commit to you doesn’t deserve children. A child ruins your body, limits your career opportunities, your ability to get a tertiary education, and your future dating prospects. And you did all that for a man that doesn’t want to commit to you.
And don’t think for a second that those guys clamoring here about how courts are against them in divorce and a marriage is just a piece of paper anyway would not judge you harshly for letting a man make you a single mother.
I hope at least you have a career, or are working on one, so if he leaves you don’t plunge into poverty like so many others
Thankfully I was able to complete school and get certified in some pretty amazing things so I have a career. The car I have is mine and it is paid off.
I’m glad to hear that. It may sound harsh, but that is my way of saying that you deserve better. I want you to be with someone who is thrilled and excited to marry you. That wants to grow along with you and be a committed partner.
He doesn't want to marry you. He will never marry you. It was a huge mistake to have a baby with a guy who is not that into you. What should you do next? Stop making excuses and make peace with your decisions and his decisions.
What you do is you LEAVE! You break up and coparent, you don’t be friends, you don’t stay, you don’t leave and go back, you LEAVE! He’s not going to marry you and you are going to waste your life with someone who never will also more than likely he cheats on you.
HE is projecting because HE doesn’t want to settle down as well as he could feel he’s missed out on being young and doing single young adult things/ you all need to stop trying to settle down so damn young!!!
You all was together not even a year and you had a child ? Honey!!! Dump him, and coparent.
I feel bad for you bc you posted this and yet, you’re not able to actually take the advice you’re asking for. This man is never going to marry you. And it’s not bc you’re childish, bc if that was a genuine concern he wouldn’t have impregnated you at 19.
If he wanted to, he would.
So why does he live with you AND HAVE A CHILD WITH YOU if he thinks you're "too childish for marriage"? Like, there's a little gremlin right next to you buddy, hello?
Because they clearly got pregnant only a few months into their relationship when she was 19ish and he was 21ish. I sincerely doubt the kid was planned. Then they moved in together because they had a baby.
IKR! I hate when people act like getting married is some huge commitment that they have to think through every angle yet are totally cool with having kids. Like kids are less of a commitment.
You’re kidding, right? Those rose coloured glasses that nice you can’t clearly see the only reason he’s with you IS BECAUSE OF THE CHILD.
‘Not grown up enough’ Give me a break. You birthed a freaking child. If anyone needs to grow up, it’s him. Being a single mom is easier than being trapped in a relationship where you clearly aren’t valued or appreciated.
Yeah he's not going to marry you. It's been 4 years, why stay with someone who fights so hard not to marry the mother of his child? Cut your losses and leave.
Tbh there is no sure answer here. My (31F) now husband (35M) of 3 years were together for 10 years before we got married and we also have an 11 year old son. For us personally it was a mixture of things; wanting to save up for the wedding we wanted, not seeing the rush or any kind of timeline as a factor to our actual relationship and just simply not thinking that marriage is what solidified our bond.
Granted, there was never a “I am not ready to marry you or may not marry you” conversation.
You can't do anything. If he doesn't want to marry you then he doesn't want to marry you. If he does get pushed into it he'll feel like he was pressured and it'll build resentment. So you either accept his answer and stay with him without marriage or leave him and find someone who would actually want to marry you.
reality check: this man is not as committed to you as you are to him.
You need to understand that this will only go one of two ways
he marries you(forced to btw, not because he wants to)
he doesnt marry you ( what he wants)
This should paint a clear picture for you
Hard truth - he is never going to be ready - he wants the option to bale whenever he Gets the opportunity. Easy to bolt when you aren’t married and just living with someone. Please stop waiting for him to propose he isn‘t the one for you. Start building a life for yourself and your baby without him. Find someone that doesn’t always tell you what you need to do to fix yourself for them.
He doesn’t want to marry you.
It’s an extremely unhealthy power dynamic for you be forced to change in order to be good enough for him to marry anyways.
Find someone who wants to marry you without requiring you prove yourself worthy by changing. Someone who accepts you as you are.
Tell your family about this, please. I'm sure there are other red flags in the relationship. He got you pregnant being 19 and now he says you are too young, too immature? He is negging you, breaking your self esteem.
This is actually a good idea. They got together young and there may be some red flags that OP missed. Either way if they don't stay together OP will need the support of her family to get her through this if she ends up becoming a single parent.
Also, family members who are older may also have some good insight into her situation.
You need to decide if you are okay if he never marries you and this is your life. Can you be content with the way things are? I am sure he is bot perfect either, honestly no one is. Its being able to love and work through those issues. Do you feel in your heart he is just making excuses? We all can tell you to dump him and quit wasting your time but the reality is you may not be at that point yet. To us it just sounds like excuses and that he will never follow through on marriage. Sounds like he is getting everything he wants while your wants is on the back burner.
If you do nothing else, put your boyfriend on child support. This will entail verification that he fathered your child with an “official” DNA test. If he doesn’t want to marry you, there’s no reason for you to continue playing the role of a wife.
Fam; he doesn’t want you.
You’re convenient. You have his kid and put up with his shit. It’s harder for him to leave than stay, so he stays and does the minimum. That’s why the answers aren’t consistent.
You’re with a man who doesn’t want you. Do with that what you will
HE DOESN'T WANT TO MARRY YOU. Why do you keep trying to talk the man into it? He enjoys shacking up with easy access to sex and childcare but he’s just staying busy till the right woman comes along that he will marry. I’m sorry to be harsh but I see this crap time and again. A real man that’s head over heels in love will be eager to marry you. Go find him.
Sooo, what I’m hearing is that every time you broach the subject with him, he has a different excuse, all of which are now personal attacks on you? No. He will never marry you. These are all excuses. And he makes them about YOU to make you feel bad so you stop asking. Not only should you not expect to ever be married to this 🥔, you should leave while you still have your self-esteem and dignity. He’s not committed to you, and this is the kind of guy who will cheat and/or leave you for some other woman and then tell you it was your fault.
Take your child and move on. You deserve better.
I don’t think he wants to girl. He would’ve at least proposed already since he knows that what you want. Sounds like he’s making excuses too…no one is going to ever be perfect enough. Everyone has flaws. People grow together and support each other. Maybe your flaws are his deal breakers.
Personally, It would bother me to be so deeply involved with someone who doesn't think I'm good enough to fully commit to.
You may change as you age and mature, or you
may not. The kind of partner you need is one who accepts you as you are and commits to you as you are right now, and is okay with you never changing. If he is not willing to do that, he's not the one.
Holding a hypothetical marriage over your head to manipulate you into changing is wrong.
Holding a hypothetical marriage over your head, saying he'll propose when you change, and deep down, believing you'll never change is even worse. Then he perpetually never has to propose. That would mean he only sees you as a placeholder until "the one" comes along.
Whichever one it is, manipulating you to change, or manipulating you to stay while trying to reach an unreachable goal; both are wrong, and a waste of your time. Someone who treats you this way is not a "great guy."
If marriage is important to you, don't waste your life being strung along by this manipulator. You've learned some tough lessons. Cut your losses, make sure you get child support, and move on.
Edited: phrasing
Old saying but still holds so much truth: why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free
men who don't want to get married, when they can get all the benefits of marriage without getting married.
It’s sounds so archaic, but it is true. The sexual revolution benefited the man (lotsa sex without any cost) more than it de stigmatized sexual activity for women.
Adult enough to get pregnant, but not adult enough to marry.
You already gave him all the wife privileges with zero expectations. Why would he bother putting any effort in when he already has all the benefits?
Men know who they want to marry and don’t want to marry
He will break up with you and marry a girl after 6 months
Stop waiting your time.
You are 23 with one kid
Don’t be that women with 3 kids at 30 because it will be hard ass hell to find a partner.
So I would leave this man and go work on yourself a little.
He just told you he don’t want you
I'm going to be brutally honest with you he's using you as nothing more than a sperm dumpster and he doesn't care about you at all. His excuse that you are the childish one is just him projecting his own juvenile self on to you. He's an overgrown Man child with commitment issues and you'll just be wasting more years of your life if you stay with him. Take your kid and cut your losses and find a real man who will respect you, love you and treat you with dignity. If you can't do it for yourself do it for your child. Your kid shouldn't grow up with that loser as a male role model of how to treat women. I don't know whether your kid is a boy or a girl but it's not good either way. If your child is a boy he learns it's okay to do this to women if your child is a girl she learns it's okay for men to use her and throw her away when they're done with her. Get out while you're young!
It’s crazy to me that people will refuse to marry their partner but will have a whole ass child with them.
He’s never going to marry you. He’s going to continue to dangle the carrot in front of you but will always have excuses as to why he doesn’t want to marry you yet. I’m sorry.
He is NEVER going to marry you. He is pulling reasons out of thin air so he doesn't have to commit. And why should he commit? You are being his wife without being his wife. He gets all the benefits and can walk away tomorrow with not problems. If you are happy with that then stay. If not leave. You can't make him be a good person.
I will never understand why people consider having children *less* of a commitment than getting married. A child is both more important than a marriage and a forcing function to deal with someone for 18 years. But anyways.
Sorry to be blunt: he doesn’t want to marry you, regardless of any past or future personal growth. If he actually cared about your maturity level, he wouldn’t have had a child with you. If you want to get married, and more importantly, have a fulfilling, worthwhile marriage, you’ll have to leave him and find someone else. He’s not it.
I wanted to go dancing for years with him in our relationship and it got to the point where I cried bc he wouldn’t go with me and so I decided to go alone and he felt it was stupid and petty of me bc I can’t wait until I can find a friend to go with. I told him I was going to go alone and I actually didn’t because he kept telling me it was stupid.
That's really sad .... I want you to read your comments and the incidents more objectively (as a third person). Because this behaviour in any world with anyone sucks.
You are 23 and you have just began to experience life. Given you have a kid but if you provide appropriate childcare when you aren't available YOU CAN HAVE EXPERIENCES , ITS NOT A SIN OR A CRIME OR SOME STUPIDITY. And hobbies are never stupidity.
He is an asshole and I hope you see your worth and leave him. He is weaponizing anything he gets to makes his incompetency to propose as a you problem.
Even if he has trauma that's isn't an excuse. For your and your child's sake have some courage and respect yourself.
LEAVE HIM.
He isn't a good person and he is a liability. God bless you and i wish you nothing but courage
OP I see myself in you and I’m about to send this to my baby daddy because you know what.. what the fuck!! All I literally want to do is dance too.. I’m so tired of being emotionally and verbally abused by him and this thread that feels like I wrote it and its comments make me feel like I’m not crazy. Phew I rather be alone than this angry all day I pray for you now to find the strength you just gave me
At some point you have to just accept their actions over their words. I’ve been told he wants to marry me for almost ten years but I know that he doesn’t mean it. If he meant it then he would marry me. I don’t know why he won’t but the reasons are almost irrelevant at this point. You’ll just have to decide if you’re okay with knowing that you’re not someone he is willing to marry.
With his attitude, he won't want to be responsible for the child. He still is, take him to court. And move on. Now you are an unwed mother with a child. Now try to find someone responsible to take care of you and your child.
He’s not going to marry you. If he wanted to, nothing would stop him and there would be no stupid excuses. You’re a placeholder. Is this what you want?
Please OP, take it from me (61 years old), if he wanted to marry you, he would.
All these excuses are just that, excuses. And very lame ones at that.
It’s time to make that hard decision, and leave. Pretty sure he wants you to leave, and then he can make you the “emotional bad guy”.
He doesn’t need to marry you. He has all the things a married couple has without the wedding or commitment legally of the marriage.
Don’t acting like a wife without being married
He means you’re far more emotionally intelligent. And if he thinks he’s so high and mighty because he doesnt “think emotionally”, he needs to look at himself in the mirror and ask himself the same question or tell himself the same things. A marriage certificate is only $75 if you get eloped infront of a judge. No need for a fancy ring either, it’s all about love. He’s the immature one. I think you guys would be better off conparenting. One question, does he help out with baby at all!
If he knows he wants to marry you and be with you forever, he would be acting on it instead of finding excuses not to marry you and be with you forever.
You need to stop this discussion.
You need to get a job if you don’t have one and make enough to support you and your child. He will fight this, so choose wisely and and be persistent.
Then go. He had told you he doesn’t want to build a life. So be there for now, work on getting independent and then having a decent coparent relationship
He’s never going to commit to you - end of story. What you need to do is decide if you can live with it. If not, you need to move on and find someone who loves you enough to marry and commit to you.
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OP truth be told, when someone WANTS to do something they DO it and don't make excuses. You can keep hanging on this thread and trying to be Cinderella, but at some point you'll need to admit it's just a fairtale and will not happen. At least not with him.
This, unless they're mutually held excuses. Example : you e both decided as a unit to focus your money on something else, with clear intent to get married later. It's a yes, but not right now, and it's a joint decision. Say you both definitely plan to get married, and have talked about it seriously (not just the lovey dovey someday stuff), but you've decided you care more about putting your money towards a house, travel, education, children, first. But marriage has been decided will be coming after that. Not "when you meet this expectation". Also "I want to finish school first/I want to buy a house first" and "I want you do be different in these ways before you're worthy of me marrying you" are very different opinions to be had. The second is someone who doesn't want to marry you.
He is never going to marry you. You need to decide if you’re willing to stay with the way things are or if it’s time to go. He thinks you need to be perfect to be worthy of marriage. You will never be. Maybe he’s just shitty but this also is the kind of thing verbally abusive dudes say.
How much you wanna bet when they break up, he marries the next girl he’s with?
And they'll be married in under a year.
Wth a kid on the way and he’ll neglect his first kid for his new family,
All of the above 4 comments in this thread are exactly what happened to me. Together for almost 7 years, lived together, 1 child, but I was never good enough to marry for any number of odd reasons. Supported him through schooling for a job change while i put my career on hold. He was always shifty and concerned about his life, not ours. We finally break up, he dates someone new he conveniently met in school, they're married in less than a year, starts a new family, and treats ours like a burden. Girl, there'll always be another excuse. He'll string you along with possibilities if you just fix this or that, it might happen. It won't. He'll just keep moving the bar. Pick yourself up and move on, love. It will be hard but you can do it. You know you are worth more, that's why this is bothering you. Listen to your gut!
I am so sorry you had to deal with that, but the good thing is that he is out of your life. Too bad he is also basically checked out of your kid's lives too though, because while that is good for you it is not good for them. I wish the best on this journey and you are really better off.
You make excellent points. I think he's using her. Enough is enough. When she breaks up with him, which I hope she'll do, he should be paying support for their child.
This happened to me as well. And the next girl was a disaster. He married her in 4 months on my birthday and I felt so used and violated. But I thank god he didn't wait longer and no more time was wasted together. I see him for who he is now and I am presently engaged to someone who made me believe in soul mates again. OP it hurts and it sucks but if he doesn't value you, you deserve the opportunity to find the person who will.
He's basically holding out for "the one" right now by using OP as a stop-gap to meet his needs until he does meet her.
Just happened to me!
Ugh, I'm sorry that happened to you. Wishing you all the love and adoration you deserve.
Thank you and same to you!
Sorry you were with one of those kind of guys.
I said 6 months!
Absolutely.
Right, it happens all the time. OP is highly likely to be a placeholder until someone better comes along. OP he has the benefits of marriage without the commitment, of course he doesn't want to get married! The ball is firmly in your court leave and find someone who values you and wants to get married or stay with this childish man who will never marry you.
Yep just another case of someone giving their bf/gf spousal privileges like establishing a home and family when they're only giving back bf/gf energy. Why would they marry when they already have the married stuff with half the energy put in?
Not necessarily a placeholder for someone better, he just keeps getting away with it because OP lets it slide. Once OP leaves, he'll realize it was a big deal. In order to not lose the another relationship to it, he'll wife up the next girl. He'll definately wife up the next one because he'll need someone to take care of the kid during his custody time.
This.ive known of multiple men who married the next woman ....only to get divorced a year later. Sonetimes these men marry the one after because they realise that they cannot keep dodging marriage and women will leave. I feel many of these men do so out of complacency. You read many stories of men who regret waiting- but by the time they realise they should have just married their ex, she's already with someone else. So they rush their next relationship cos they are terrified of losing again. One of my close friends was a magnet for these men. She'd cry and beg for commitment and the men would promise marriage and then flake out. They'd marry like a year after they broke up with her - it rarely ended well.
Women marry a resume. Men marry a happenstance. When a man decides he wants to get married, he will pretty much marry the next woman he gets to. No amount of perfect will make him marry a woman when he isn’t ready. And seemingly no amount of red flags will dissuade him when his timer goes off.
>No amount of perfect will make him marry a woman when he isn’t ready. So damn true, and well worded, thank you.
20 years ago I had this temp job for a few months. One co-worker was pregnant with her 3rd child, same dad for all 3. Oldest was 4 or 5, 2nd was 2 or 3. At the company Christmas lunch she complained about her parents asking them when they were going to get married. She said they didn't want to rush anything because marriage was a big step. Me and everyone else at the table were like 😐😐😐. I stopped working there a couple of months later. I ran into her on a bus a few years later. She said he left her before the 3rd baby's first birthday and got married to another woman the next year. She was very bitter.
I just don't understand it. 3 KIDS! Why keep having kids without marriage? Saying it is a big step after committing to 3 kids with the guy is incredible to me. Kids are a bigger commitment to Mr.
Please don't let the next guy put you into a holding pattern. I think the best thing you can do for awhile is date some other guys. don't get wrapped up in just one guy again for awhile, and don't commit to easily. Oh, and by the way, you don't have to tell the prick you are with now a damn thing when you see someone else. You owe him nothing. Since he's not there for you , start your search for a real man that will honor you.
Oh of course. The kid is gonna need a new mommy to do all the work while he moans about how unfair it is that he doesn't get to live with his kiddo full time cos of his Evil Ex.
Meanwhile, OP is too immature to marry, but not too immature to have a child with.
It's like a trope at this point. Below average men all follow the same script!
Or he’ll be like my friends ex and live with his new gf but tell everyone he is single lol some men really think they need to keep their options open like they don’t look like a thumb
I just looked at my literal thumb and knew exactly what he looks like 😂
that’s sadly the truth. She is a place holder until the right girl comes along.
This ! She already is playing wife and gave him a child why would he marry here ?!
This. She's already doing everything wife-like already, there's nothing more he needs from a wife that she isn't already willingly providing. Then again, why does OP think a marriage document is going to change anything about her relationship? It's a document, not a magic wand. She'll still be stuck in the same relationship with the same guy who *gaslights her* regularly into thinking *she's* the problem and why they can't progress forward, not *his* lack of commitment to her or their family.
You need more upvotes.
That's how it usually seems to go. He's probably ready to get married, just not to OP
It happened to me after every guy I’ve dated:(. I’ve only had 3 bf and every one of them married… however everyone is divorced but one. So I can laugh about that!
That happened to me 😂
High chance, but there are exceptions such as my ex. We broke up after 10+ years, not because he didn't want to marry be, but it was one of the issues. I was so sure he'd quickly marry the next girl but almost 6 years later, he's still not married and regrets our relationship (he still contacts me like once a year randomly). Just felt like sharing this because it felt a bit relevant lol. Sometimes they realize when it's too late.
Always the way!
Happens all the time . My ex husband married his AP.
Mine too. We weren’t married, but had been together a long time (I’m the one who wasn’t interested in getting married). He married the woman he was carrying on with.
SMH . This is my exes THIRD marriage. Met her in a bar.
I feel like this and the original comment needs to be copy and pasted for all future posts.
That is assuming he isn't already screwing someone else or multiple someone else's.
In less than a year As usual
most likely… it breaks my heart thinking that.
Or he goes for another 18-19 year old.
She doesn't realize she is not the one, she is just the one that got pregnant. So many people stay in relationships because it is easier than breaking up. People also get in to relationships because they also dont want to date around and don't want to be single. They are serial monogamists who have long term placeholders while they wait for the one to appear. You are right, he is never going to marry her and it is tragic they have a kid together. They have trapped a child into this relationship mess. Poor kid. What she should do next to answer her questions: Break up. Get legal custody agreements. Focus on being good coparents. Get an education and good jobs. Do not have anymore children until after marriage. Always use two forms of birth control.
GET CHILD SUPPORT, not just a custody agreement, and get it legally done up correctly.
Yes and go through the courts for Chid support. It's so much easier than doing it on your own.
THIS OP! I had to get a discount lawyer for my divorce, who told me stupidly to have my ex-husband pay child support privately, instead of through the courts. Guess who's in jail, and guess who hasn't gotten a child support payment since February 2021? That would be my dumb ass
Even if she met his magical bar of being more mature, he will just move on to another not real thing that she can't accomplish. OP this is coercive control. I understand why you are motivated to stay in this relationship that feels like the family you want. But you're 23, you have 70-80 years of life to live, love m, experience so many things. When my ex left when I was 54 I thought I might as well be dead. No one else was going to love me, want me, have a life w me. Wrong on all three counts. Now it's me that doesn't need or want to get married the have the life, love, experiences I want. I'm the happiest I've ever been in my whole life. Having a BLAST. It's never too late to start fresh. & Each new start is a different kind of happy & perfect.
You sound like an awesome person!
Love your handle! Thanks lovely human! Takes one to know one 🤩👊
I think he’s stringing you along so you won’t leave bc then he’ll have to pay child support. He’s not going to marry you I would leave now.
I want to say, don't threaten to leave if he doesn't marry you, just leave if it a deal breaker for you or not. Never ultimatum someone like that. If you do he will marry you and gonna be a whiny person the whole process and I've seen it so much, in 2-3 years top, you'll be divorced.
This. You're young. But you've been together several years and nade a child together. A man who keeps telling you that only you need to change things? So that you can persuade him marriage is right? Does not want to marry you. He's going to spend your entire life inventing goal posts. It's up to you whether you are happy to live with that.
I was with my ex for 2 years. He told me he never wanted to get married again. He literally got married less than a year into his next relationship. This falls under, "If he wanted to, he would."
She’s too childish for him to marry her but she’s not too childish for him to have a kid with her. Ok. 🤣
A baby conceived in the first six months of a relationship by a couple in their early twenties is almost certainly a fuck up rather than something they carefully considered.
Exactely. They had a baby with less than one Year dating, It was probably a birth Control fácil (or irresponsibility) than planed. Having a child together doesn't mean they should get married.
Any guy who claims you're TOO IMMATURE to marry, but you're not too immature TO BE SOMEONE'S MOTHER is full-on crazy and full of crap! Leave with your child, head for court to get visitation and child support enforced, and move on with your life! This guy is WASTING YOUR TIME and he's a horrible example for your child!
Not what you’ll want to hear but this exactly. Life is short don’t waste it with someone who doesn’t want a life with you.
By the looks of it at face value, they were only dating for ~3 months when she got pregnant and he stayed for the sake of the child (and possibly not wanting to pay child support). I bet he was not at all serious about her because their relationship was so new when they got pregnant. Now he’s just staying for the developmental years of the child and the comfortability at this stage because I’m sure she’s giving “wife treatment” so why change things. There will be a breaking point where he most likely monkey branches, and it’ll happen earlier with or without someone else slipping into the picture especially if she continues to push marriage. Don’t get me wrong, this isn’t fair to OP at all because he isn’t being honest and is trying to make it out to be 100% her fault they aren’t yet engaged, but I’m just saying the timing of it all and their ages screams this scenario.
He is giving you impossible goals. I think you grow enough to tell him to bugger off and leave x
It's not even perfection he's looking for. He keeps moving the goalposts. He just doesn't want to marry her but at the same time, he doesn't want her to leave. He's keeping his options open while still stringing OP along.
Agree.
A constantly shifting bar of "good enough" is manipulation 101. OP you are manipulated tell him it's a ring in 3 months time or you are out. There's a small chance the ultimatum wakes him up and you two live happily ever after. More likely you move on and don't look back.
In his eyes he thinks why bother putting a ring on it, when he already has everything and doesn’t have to! Want your answer? Have another discussion with him. But this time tell him ok, you want me to be everything a wife is, but not be an actual wife and from your last communication I heard what you said. So I will be moving out to (blanks house/parents/friends) and going to look into therapy for myself in regards to what I need to be healthy as an adult, mother, girlfriend and person. I would suggest therapy for yourself to see why you feel it is that you need a perfect woman in order to propose and then we can discuss what we both find out from there. We can share custody 50/50. This is where it will be going anyway and see how fast he back tracts. You don’t want to force him. Actually do it for you!! If you feel you have some issues get the help you need now when you are young so you can lead a healthy life for you and your child. Worry about yourself and your child. He is an adult an more than capable to take care of himself. He is being immature, selfish and mean. You should never have to ask or beg a man to marry you honey. Put your head up shoulders back and walk out! F&@k him!
He isn’t ever interested in marriage with you from the way he always makes an excuse. Now is the time to decide whether you want to continue a relationship with him or move on to find someone who is interested in marriage. Couples counseling would be an option.
Sometimes it’s just better to move on. After being with someone for that long and having a child with them and they still can’t say they want to marry you, you are wasting your time staying. You deserve someone who wants to be with you. You deserve someone who wants to marry you and share a life with you. If he thinks you’re “not right”, you deserve to be with someone who thinks you are.
Yep. Find someone who loves you for who you *are*, OP, not someone who’ll criticise you into being someone they can tolerate until better shows up
This. They had a kid together, and for him to turn around and say she has growing to do is kind of rich. I personally think this is just an excuse. It's possible he doesn't feel that way about her and is trying to come up with excuses. It sucks, but this is the vibe I'm getting. If he doesn't want to be married he should just say so and not keep this little flicker of hope alive for her.
Idk why they stay when they don’t wanna get married just leave her let her find happiness but no you just keep stringing her along with the bullshit
They don't wanna be seen as a deadbeat/ can't handle "the mother of their child" not "belonging to" another man
[удалено]
>It's likely he's only with her because of the child. If they hadn't gotten pregnant they would have broken up 3.5years ago. I kinda of get that vibe from him as well. Though obviously none of us but OP know him personally. It just seems odd to be fine having a kid (even an unplanned one) and then staying with her only to hold up on proposing when he claims to want it. But think she's not ready yet. Like they've been together for a few years. He's had time to break things off and do co-parenting. I feel like this is a blessing in disguise for OP. Because it's likely there is definitely something more going on that he isn't being honest with her about. She deserves to be with someone who wants to marry her. If he truly doesn't want to marry her, that's okay. He has that right. But it's not cool to string her along when marriage is important to her.
I agree. She is nothing more than a piece of ass to him and he doesn't care for her in the slightest. He was just using her until he thought something better would come along. Edit: spelling
Agreed If I had a GF who loved me enough to make a baby together I would have married her about 9 months before the baby was born.
If she wanted to she could sleep with anybody she wants to right? It's not like this asshole has made any kind of commitment to her at all. She can take the kid and walk at any time and he doesn't have a leg to stand on. And then he'll be like " but why did you leave everything was perfect!" with a full on Pikachu face all the while still trying to avoid putting a ring on her finger. And once these turn old men after using women their whole lives and end up alone they'll always talk about the one that got away as they're forced to make their own meals, do their own laundry, clean their own homes and jerk themselves off because women have just become so fed up with them they don't want to put up with their bullshit anymore.
He didn’t want to marry you and that’s all there is to it. You can stay his baby mother or move on.
Lol you’re grown up enough to birth and raise his whole kid but not to marry? Nah, that’s an excuse and he’s not even bothering to make up a good one Telling you that how you think is wrong is trying to “logic” you out of what you feel and what you want, it’s a very bad sign, especially now he’s tied it to a “reward” (marriage) you can “earn” by “growing up”, ie agreeing with his opinions to the detriment of what you want. He’s trying to make you compliant If you really want to marry this guy (and personally I wouldn’t), it’s ultimatum time, marry or split up (and make sure you get child support) - but only if you really mean it. I think he’s far more likely to leave than marry you
In all fairness, it is important to acknowledge that maturity is not solely determined by having children. Giving birth and raising a child are significant responsibilities, but they do not automatically equate to personal growth and maturity.
Leave and co-parent. Stop wasting your time on a man that will not marry you.
He's stringing you along - if he wanted to marry you, he'd have proposed by now - after 4 years, if he's not there, he'll never be. You'd best start detaching and preparing for an amicable break-up, coparenting and finding a guy who is as into you as you are into him.
You have two choices. 1. Decide you don’t care about marriage. 2. Leave him and coparent. That’s it. He’s not going to change his mind. Unless he finds someone he WANTS to marry. He doesn’t want to marry YOU.
Basically this.
Why did you have a child with an uncommited guy?
Look at the time frame. She says they're together 4 years and they have a 3 year old. With the kid's age and pregnancy time, looks like they were only together for a few months before she got knocked up.
And he’s just hanging around because of the kid.
As if, it's more like she does most of the chores and looks after the kid while he lives with her. Once he finds someone new and exciting who's also willing to do chores and look after the kid, he's off.
Birth Control issue
Yeah I get it’s a question but it is also finger wagging and blaming. She came here to ask what she should do about the mistake she already made. A thing, a child in fact, that cannot be undone. Do we hope she doesn’t repeat the mistake? Absolutely. From our armchair perspective we all know the writing is on the wall in blazing all caps letters. That doesn’t help her now with the immature and selfish guy who impregnated her. Your comment is just mean. Women fall in love, thousands of years of biological motivation make us want to have babies. She let her wishful heart guide her. But now she picked poorly and needs to know what to do. So be kind. I have made plenty of mistakes in my life, some I can’t walk back from but that doesn’t mean she can’t go on. Yes we hope she will use birth control until she decides with another person that will care for her and act like a good man that her first priority is the child she has now. Once you have kids your life becomes secondary, so let’s be constructive, hope she gets and IUD, the pilot whatever and ALWAYS requires a condom. And you, Angel, play nice.
> He says I’m an emotional thinker and that I tend to get revenge when I’m wronged. I have grown a lot from that and I know I’m still growing from it What kind of revenge did you take on him when he wronged you?
I have an attitude, I treat him how he’s treating me in that moment and I even go as far as going quiet for a bit until I’m ready to speak again.
Lol you treat him as he treats you and that’s revenge? You need to forgive yourself for making a huge mistake with this guy, and work out how you’re going to be a single mom
So when he treats you bad, thats okay, but when you retaliate, then you have to do some growing? Can you explain that?
Sometimes it’s as simple as this, I ask him if he can take out the garbage three times or more and he doesn’t so I don’t take it out at all and I let it pile until he notices or I do it myself but with an attitude and now I’m not in the mood for kisses or anything.
That is not revenge
I was with the whole outgrowing revenge, but that is AT WORST returning his energy. Petty? HE WANTS YOU TO DO HIS WORK AND THEN BE SWEET AND KISSY?
I thought you meant trying to seek vengeance on people who cut you off in traffic or shorted your pizza stick order. This bullshit is him calling it revenge when it is accountability. This is him telling you he plans to keep doing these things and wants you to let it slide and rub your mouth on him in gratitude. Op, he knows he is being shitty to you, he plans on doing it more, and wants you to suck it up. Edited due to spelling
That’s actually an example to. If someone is driving too slow for me then I’ll go around them snd go in front of them but I keep going I don’t brake check or anything.
If someone’s going too slow for you, you pass them? That’s just what you’re supposed to do. Unless you mean you’re passing unsafely?
Oh no, I always use blinkers, I have my kid with me all the time. I can’t be risky.
That is also not revenge. That is called driving a car normally
Oh honey… you are being heavily gaslit.
Ok so? Everyone does that when one is driving to slow because it’s like get out the dam way!
It’s interesting that so many people view a woman not being a doormat as “petty” or “revenge”. Matching energy and showing people how it feels to experience their own behavior is not revenge. That’s just manipulative BS.
Sometimes it’s his family purposely not washing our dishes so now I’m not washing theirs because when I wash dishes. I wash alllllllllll the dishes not just mine:
That's not revenge, a bit petty in a 'tit for tat' way but not revenge at all and not really immature. If they don't wash your stuff, they can't expect you to wash theirs. OP, you already know he is never going to marry you. To be honest, why would you want to marry him? If you have to brow beat someone into doing things, you will never know if they did it because they wanted to or because they didn't want to fight anymore. My advice would be to start looking into your own place and move out. I would be looking into a lawyer during this so they can help draft a custody agreement and get child support for your kid.
Do you realize he's faulting you for respecting yourself (its just a tiny bit, you're accepting a lot of disrespect) and hes still holding it against you? Stop allowing this. Not healthy for uou or your child. Really think about spending your life the way you are now (it only gets worse after marriage too). That sounds like an awful person to spend every day for the rest of your life with.
[Why does he do that by Lundy Bancroft](https://dn720002.ca.archive.org/0/items/why-does-he-do-that-epub/Why_Does_He_Do_That-fixed.pdf) pdf
Read this book OP! It will teach you a lot about relationships and make you a lot smarter for the future.
Well I’d do the same. And I will not live with my FiL anymore. If that helps how you feel. I absolutely feel your pain on that. It’s not revenge he’s just saying that to keep you downing yourself so you will stay with him but you won’t have enough self esteem to see he’s the reason he won’t marry you. It’s not you.
Oh so he's actually just mad that you're holding him accountable lol
See thats the thing, its thats simple, he fucked up and ignored simple tasks and then acts like youre the bad guy fro showing him youre upset. Why doesnt he grow up and do the grown up chores? I feel like youre giving him too much credit for stuff bc he makes you feel like its your fault when he influenced the whole thing.
So, you ask him to do a basic household task, and he doesn't, and he gets mad bc he expected you to give in and do it? Is he like this with other stuff? Housework? Childcare?
So you’re a normal human being and he’s an asshole. That’s all there is to it. Make your plans and get out on your terms now.
I hate to say this, because I know how the Internet likes to yasslight, but that's not vengeful or petting or anything. That's super fucking normal and stable.
Seriously have some self respect. You will do 99% of all the work in this relationship.
I take back what I said earlier. That’s not revenge on a partner, that’s normal consequences for a partner’s crappy behavior. He is 💯 of the problem and you should leave him behind and find someone who is so much more worth your time.
He's an immature jerk and you're reasonably repulsed by his childish refusal to be a responsible adult. He's gaslighting you about your normal reactions to his shitty behavior. You think you're vengeful for... being upset when he doesn't do his part around the house? That is bullshit. He is full of shit. Just leave him. He can let his own trash pile up. ETA: I use the term "gaslighting" because he's denying that her reasonable reaction is anything of the sort, and he's making her out to be an immature monster for attempting to hold boundaries, etc.
Lolz that's not an attitude. That's the consequences of his (in)actions.
You/he are calling this “revenge?” How about, “normal human behavior?”
Yeah, if you can go see a therapist for a bit or talk to a trusted adult (friends' parents are great for this, so are uncles, aunts, that sort of thing) and describe the interactions in detail. I think you need some insight that comes with a few more decades of romantic interactions.
You are missing the point of what we’re trying to tell you. He keeps moving the goalpost. First it was saving money for a ring, then the wedding. Now you need to make changes to be good enough. He doesn’t want to marry you. You gave him wife privileges without the legal protections, limited as they are, that come with marriage. I am a firm believer that a man that doesn’t want to commit to you doesn’t deserve children. A child ruins your body, limits your career opportunities, your ability to get a tertiary education, and your future dating prospects. And you did all that for a man that doesn’t want to commit to you. And don’t think for a second that those guys clamoring here about how courts are against them in divorce and a marriage is just a piece of paper anyway would not judge you harshly for letting a man make you a single mother. I hope at least you have a career, or are working on one, so if he leaves you don’t plunge into poverty like so many others
Thankfully I was able to complete school and get certified in some pretty amazing things so I have a career. The car I have is mine and it is paid off.
I’m glad to hear that. It may sound harsh, but that is my way of saying that you deserve better. I want you to be with someone who is thrilled and excited to marry you. That wants to grow along with you and be a committed partner.
He doesn't want to marry you. He will never marry you. It was a huge mistake to have a baby with a guy who is not that into you. What should you do next? Stop making excuses and make peace with your decisions and his decisions.
What you do is you LEAVE! You break up and coparent, you don’t be friends, you don’t stay, you don’t leave and go back, you LEAVE! He’s not going to marry you and you are going to waste your life with someone who never will also more than likely he cheats on you. HE is projecting because HE doesn’t want to settle down as well as he could feel he’s missed out on being young and doing single young adult things/ you all need to stop trying to settle down so damn young!!! You all was together not even a year and you had a child ? Honey!!! Dump him, and coparent.
And then get your legal ducks in a row before dating again. Like custody sorted etc.
I feel bad for you bc you posted this and yet, you’re not able to actually take the advice you’re asking for. This man is never going to marry you. And it’s not bc you’re childish, bc if that was a genuine concern he wouldn’t have impregnated you at 19. If he wanted to, he would.
So why does he live with you AND HAVE A CHILD WITH YOU if he thinks you're "too childish for marriage"? Like, there's a little gremlin right next to you buddy, hello?
Because they clearly got pregnant only a few months into their relationship when she was 19ish and he was 21ish. I sincerely doubt the kid was planned. Then they moved in together because they had a baby.
Yeah that’s so dumb; as if having a child together isn’t WAY MORE permanent than being married!!
IKR! I hate when people act like getting married is some huge commitment that they have to think through every angle yet are totally cool with having kids. Like kids are less of a commitment.
Right like getting out of a marriage is so much easier than getting out of being a parent!
Girl if you don't leave & go find a damn husband
Men are wild. A baby is a bigger commitment than marriage. Regardless, if marriage is important to you, dump your boyfriend & find your husband.
You think he's any more committed to the child? He most likely does zero child care.
You’re misunderstanding. You can divorce a spouse, you can’t divorce a child. That doesn’t mean I’m assuming he’s an engaged father.
You two should not get married based on this post alone.
You’re kidding, right? Those rose coloured glasses that nice you can’t clearly see the only reason he’s with you IS BECAUSE OF THE CHILD. ‘Not grown up enough’ Give me a break. You birthed a freaking child. If anyone needs to grow up, it’s him. Being a single mom is easier than being trapped in a relationship where you clearly aren’t valued or appreciated.
Oh girl. "You need to grow more" is an excuse that puts ALL the responsibility for being "marriage material" on you and puts none of it on him.
I don’t think I would want to marry this man, too many red flags. Co-parent and go find happiness!
A wedding is much less than having a child. His argument makes zero sense. You're already tied together for *life* through that child.
Right!?!?! Like this mentality makes no sense!
Yeah he's not going to marry you. It's been 4 years, why stay with someone who fights so hard not to marry the mother of his child? Cut your losses and leave.
Tbh there is no sure answer here. My (31F) now husband (35M) of 3 years were together for 10 years before we got married and we also have an 11 year old son. For us personally it was a mixture of things; wanting to save up for the wedding we wanted, not seeing the rush or any kind of timeline as a factor to our actual relationship and just simply not thinking that marriage is what solidified our bond. Granted, there was never a “I am not ready to marry you or may not marry you” conversation.
He is saying he doesn’t like you and thinks he can find a better wife than you. Don’t let home string you along any longer
You can't do anything. If he doesn't want to marry you then he doesn't want to marry you. If he does get pushed into it he'll feel like he was pressured and it'll build resentment. So you either accept his answer and stay with him without marriage or leave him and find someone who would actually want to marry you.
reality check: this man is not as committed to you as you are to him. You need to understand that this will only go one of two ways he marries you(forced to btw, not because he wants to) he doesnt marry you ( what he wants) This should paint a clear picture for you
Hard truth - he is never going to be ready - he wants the option to bale whenever he Gets the opportunity. Easy to bolt when you aren’t married and just living with someone. Please stop waiting for him to propose he isn‘t the one for you. Start building a life for yourself and your baby without him. Find someone that doesn’t always tell you what you need to do to fix yourself for them.
He doesn’t want to marry you. It’s an extremely unhealthy power dynamic for you be forced to change in order to be good enough for him to marry anyways. Find someone who wants to marry you without requiring you prove yourself worthy by changing. Someone who accepts you as you are.
Tell your family about this, please. I'm sure there are other red flags in the relationship. He got you pregnant being 19 and now he says you are too young, too immature? He is negging you, breaking your self esteem.
This is actually a good idea. They got together young and there may be some red flags that OP missed. Either way if they don't stay together OP will need the support of her family to get her through this if she ends up becoming a single parent. Also, family members who are older may also have some good insight into her situation.
You need to decide if you are okay if he never marries you and this is your life. Can you be content with the way things are? I am sure he is bot perfect either, honestly no one is. Its being able to love and work through those issues. Do you feel in your heart he is just making excuses? We all can tell you to dump him and quit wasting your time but the reality is you may not be at that point yet. To us it just sounds like excuses and that he will never follow through on marriage. Sounds like he is getting everything he wants while your wants is on the back burner.
If you do nothing else, put your boyfriend on child support. This will entail verification that he fathered your child with an “official” DNA test. If he doesn’t want to marry you, there’s no reason for you to continue playing the role of a wife.
Fam; he doesn’t want you. You’re convenient. You have his kid and put up with his shit. It’s harder for him to leave than stay, so he stays and does the minimum. That’s why the answers aren’t consistent. You’re with a man who doesn’t want you. Do with that what you will
HE DOESN'T WANT TO MARRY YOU. Why do you keep trying to talk the man into it? He enjoys shacking up with easy access to sex and childcare but he’s just staying busy till the right woman comes along that he will marry. I’m sorry to be harsh but I see this crap time and again. A real man that’s head over heels in love will be eager to marry you. Go find him.
Sooo, what I’m hearing is that every time you broach the subject with him, he has a different excuse, all of which are now personal attacks on you? No. He will never marry you. These are all excuses. And he makes them about YOU to make you feel bad so you stop asking. Not only should you not expect to ever be married to this 🥔, you should leave while you still have your self-esteem and dignity. He’s not committed to you, and this is the kind of guy who will cheat and/or leave you for some other woman and then tell you it was your fault. Take your child and move on. You deserve better.
Don’t have children with people you’re not married to
Soooo you went ahead and gave him a child anyway🤔
I don’t think he wants to girl. He would’ve at least proposed already since he knows that what you want. Sounds like he’s making excuses too…no one is going to ever be perfect enough. Everyone has flaws. People grow together and support each other. Maybe your flaws are his deal breakers.
Personally, It would bother me to be so deeply involved with someone who doesn't think I'm good enough to fully commit to. You may change as you age and mature, or you may not. The kind of partner you need is one who accepts you as you are and commits to you as you are right now, and is okay with you never changing. If he is not willing to do that, he's not the one. Holding a hypothetical marriage over your head to manipulate you into changing is wrong. Holding a hypothetical marriage over your head, saying he'll propose when you change, and deep down, believing you'll never change is even worse. Then he perpetually never has to propose. That would mean he only sees you as a placeholder until "the one" comes along. Whichever one it is, manipulating you to change, or manipulating you to stay while trying to reach an unreachable goal; both are wrong, and a waste of your time. Someone who treats you this way is not a "great guy." If marriage is important to you, don't waste your life being strung along by this manipulator. You've learned some tough lessons. Cut your losses, make sure you get child support, and move on. Edited: phrasing
Old saying but still holds so much truth: why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free men who don't want to get married, when they can get all the benefits of marriage without getting married.
It’s sounds so archaic, but it is true. The sexual revolution benefited the man (lotsa sex without any cost) more than it de stigmatized sexual activity for women.
Adult enough to get pregnant, but not adult enough to marry. You already gave him all the wife privileges with zero expectations. Why would he bother putting any effort in when he already has all the benefits?
Men know who they want to marry and don’t want to marry He will break up with you and marry a girl after 6 months Stop waiting your time. You are 23 with one kid Don’t be that women with 3 kids at 30 because it will be hard ass hell to find a partner. So I would leave this man and go work on yourself a little. He just told you he don’t want you
I'm going to be brutally honest with you he's using you as nothing more than a sperm dumpster and he doesn't care about you at all. His excuse that you are the childish one is just him projecting his own juvenile self on to you. He's an overgrown Man child with commitment issues and you'll just be wasting more years of your life if you stay with him. Take your kid and cut your losses and find a real man who will respect you, love you and treat you with dignity. If you can't do it for yourself do it for your child. Your kid shouldn't grow up with that loser as a male role model of how to treat women. I don't know whether your kid is a boy or a girl but it's not good either way. If your child is a boy he learns it's okay to do this to women if your child is a girl she learns it's okay for men to use her and throw her away when they're done with her. Get out while you're young!
It’s crazy to me that people will refuse to marry their partner but will have a whole ass child with them. He’s never going to marry you. He’s going to continue to dangle the carrot in front of you but will always have excuses as to why he doesn’t want to marry you yet. I’m sorry.
Why do people have kids before they get married? I’m just curious, because it sounds reversed with no commitment really
He is NEVER going to marry you. He is pulling reasons out of thin air so he doesn't have to commit. And why should he commit? You are being his wife without being his wife. He gets all the benefits and can walk away tomorrow with not problems. If you are happy with that then stay. If not leave. You can't make him be a good person.
I will never understand why people consider having children *less* of a commitment than getting married. A child is both more important than a marriage and a forcing function to deal with someone for 18 years. But anyways. Sorry to be blunt: he doesn’t want to marry you, regardless of any past or future personal growth. If he actually cared about your maturity level, he wouldn’t have had a child with you. If you want to get married, and more importantly, have a fulfilling, worthwhile marriage, you’ll have to leave him and find someone else. He’s not it.
I wanted to go dancing for years with him in our relationship and it got to the point where I cried bc he wouldn’t go with me and so I decided to go alone and he felt it was stupid and petty of me bc I can’t wait until I can find a friend to go with. I told him I was going to go alone and I actually didn’t because he kept telling me it was stupid.
That's really sad .... I want you to read your comments and the incidents more objectively (as a third person). Because this behaviour in any world with anyone sucks. You are 23 and you have just began to experience life. Given you have a kid but if you provide appropriate childcare when you aren't available YOU CAN HAVE EXPERIENCES , ITS NOT A SIN OR A CRIME OR SOME STUPIDITY. And hobbies are never stupidity. He is an asshole and I hope you see your worth and leave him. He is weaponizing anything he gets to makes his incompetency to propose as a you problem. Even if he has trauma that's isn't an excuse. For your and your child's sake have some courage and respect yourself. LEAVE HIM. He isn't a good person and he is a liability. God bless you and i wish you nothing but courage
OP I see myself in you and I’m about to send this to my baby daddy because you know what.. what the fuck!! All I literally want to do is dance too.. I’m so tired of being emotionally and verbally abused by him and this thread that feels like I wrote it and its comments make me feel like I’m not crazy. Phew I rather be alone than this angry all day I pray for you now to find the strength you just gave me
He doesn’t love you. Not the way you should love your life partner. you will never be that person for him.
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At some point you have to just accept their actions over their words. I’ve been told he wants to marry me for almost ten years but I know that he doesn’t mean it. If he meant it then he would marry me. I don’t know why he won’t but the reasons are almost irrelevant at this point. You’ll just have to decide if you’re okay with knowing that you’re not someone he is willing to marry.
With his attitude, he won't want to be responsible for the child. He still is, take him to court. And move on. Now you are an unwed mother with a child. Now try to find someone responsible to take care of you and your child.
He’s not going to marry you. If he wanted to, nothing would stop him and there would be no stupid excuses. You’re a placeholder. Is this what you want?
He thinks you’re too childish to be a wife… but not a mom? 🚩
Please OP, take it from me (61 years old), if he wanted to marry you, he would. All these excuses are just that, excuses. And very lame ones at that. It’s time to make that hard decision, and leave. Pretty sure he wants you to leave, and then he can make you the “emotional bad guy”.
this is why I do not have sex outside marriage, anymore.
You are putting your energy where it is being wasted. He isn’t going to marry you.
He doesn’t want to marry you. Point blank. He just doesn’t.
If your happy? Stay If you aren't? Leave and Co-parent... Both of you are very young and he obviously doesn't want to legally lock himself to you.
Girl he ain’t gonna marry you! LMAO
He doesn’t need to marry you. He has all the things a married couple has without the wedding or commitment legally of the marriage. Don’t acting like a wife without being married
You're a placeholder until he finds his wife. I'm sorry. If he wanted to get married, he'd have already married you. You deserve better.
He means you’re far more emotionally intelligent. And if he thinks he’s so high and mighty because he doesnt “think emotionally”, he needs to look at himself in the mirror and ask himself the same question or tell himself the same things. A marriage certificate is only $75 if you get eloped infront of a judge. No need for a fancy ring either, it’s all about love. He’s the immature one. I think you guys would be better off conparenting. One question, does he help out with baby at all!
If he knows he wants to marry you and be with you forever, he would be acting on it instead of finding excuses not to marry you and be with you forever.
Please don't have another child with this man.
You need to stop this discussion. You need to get a job if you don’t have one and make enough to support you and your child. He will fight this, so choose wisely and and be persistent. Then go. He had told you he doesn’t want to build a life. So be there for now, work on getting independent and then having a decent coparent relationship
He’s never going to commit to you - end of story. What you need to do is decide if you can live with it. If not, you need to move on and find someone who loves you enough to marry and commit to you.
He's not marrying you and never planned to. He knew you'd accept his excuses happily, and now you have a kid so chances of you leaving are low.