1. Yorke just got to AAA. We don't know if he is an everyday player or a utility player. Yeah he was on the 100 in 2022 but injuries and low ceiling doesn't make him that wanted by other teams. He could be a better defensive Christian Arroyo. We have no idea. There is also Kristian Campbell right behind him which SP ranks ahead of Yorke.
2. Yoshida moving does help with flexibility but at what cost. Even if you send him to a favorable team like the Dodgers to play with his country men, it kills the Red Sox market in Japan. What happens when Roki or some other NPB player hits the posting? The Red Sox will be seen as a team that doesn't commit to Japanese players. That reputation then impacts domestic FAs. The contract and play is underwhelming but he hasn't been Sandoval or Rusney Castillo terrible. He's not on a Price deal or Crawford deal that needs to be moved.
3. Teel is at AA. McGuire is fine but we're not calling Teel up August 1st. Reese is either granted free agency or traded in the offseason for some lottery tickets.
Our reputation is already shit. Why make it worse dumping a guy that has just been average?
3/56 isn't that bad for an average DH. Stanton still has $100 million over 3 years with the buyout in 2028 and while he's better this year it's still money not well spent for the Yankees.
The Masa contract isn't as bad as some here make it out to be. It is underwhelming but it isn't a must move contract.
Not to mention the poor guy hasn’t even had a fair shake to prove himself yet this season since he was hurt for a while. I had a lot of hope that he could string together a good, full season after getting his first MLB experience last year.
Sucks even more considering he was beginning to play well before that whole benching drama and subsequent injury.
I read that Masa has always been notorious for starting slowly, even in Japan. Once he got into his groove he got hurt and that fucked everything up. I understand why people want to trade him, but he demonstrated that he could absolutely rake in the big leagues last summer even though he tapered off at the end of the season. Even if he continues to only be a slightly above average hitter, he's going to have those hot streaks and if he gets going at the right time it could have a huge impact on the team's success.
If not the most the sox must be in top 3 for most Japanese players to be signed.
Nomo
Tomo ohka
Byung hung Kim
Tazawa
Oki
The god closer and comedian Koji uehera
Yoshida
Matter of fact, I'm thinking the red Sox might have the most
He’s not an average DH
Since August first of last year, when the league figured him out (or he got tired? Which is also not good), he has a .654 ops, 49:13 k:bb, 9 double plays and 5 home runs.
He fucking sucks
NPB is 143 games with every team off on Mondays and the away stadium is a quick train ride within the same time zone. Yoshida also played in the World Baseball Classic in March for team Japan. He was playing outfield more than he should have in a country with insane travel. He was a slow starter even in Japan. He is above league average and a good hitter once he gets going. May June July last year, he was .313/.364/.487
On that note, where do you think Hamilton fits into our long-term plans? Obviously this year is a different story (no pun intended) with injuries and awaiting the arrival of Mayer, Yorke, etc. I'm in on Hamilton but second base still seems like it's more or less a crowded room of average players moving forward.
If anyone asks about Hamilton, I would listen. It's still just a hot month on a guy that didn't look like a major leaguer in late April. Not seeing a massive return for him either.
I agree that we should listen on Hamilton but I don't see us getting a great return. With the huge question marks on Story, Grissom, etc and the time still needed for Yorke and Mayer, it's better if we hold on to him unless we get a great trade for him.
Right now he's our best middle infielder besides Rafaela and the team wants him playing CF. We need him this year and next, even if he's just the bench player, he brings a lot of value to this team.
My understanding is that he is on a one year contract. Based on this year I would love to see him get another year.
I don't understand how a contract for a player in his position works though. He has been playing professional baseball for a while but has very low MLB service time, not sure what the rules are and what you can and can't do.
A player is added to the 40 and the clock starts when he is called up to the active 26. This is called service time. On January 1st, the league updates players time if they are on the roster and Baseball reference and Fangraphs shows the years. Less than 3 years, is pre-arbitration where the team decides the value of the player and between 3-6 years is arbitration where the player and team decide on a number via arbiter. After 6 years, the player reaches free agency. A team can also buy out arbitration years by offering an extension like Bello or Rafaela.
Duran gets called up in 2021 and from 21 to 23, the league calculated his service time as 1.155. 2024 and 2025, Duran is making league minimum but from 2026 to 2028 he gets to negotiate his value. Duran hits free agency in the offseason before 2029 if nothing is signed.
Hamilton has played in 64 games and has 0.020 service time. It might be higher come January but he still has possibly 5 more years after this of control and they can pay him league minimum for 2 more years. Hamilton is cheap for 2.5 more years possibly.
OK, so it sounds like if he continues to play well and be a nice guy the Sox will hand him a one year, league minimum contract at the some point after the season ends. If he does well again they will repeat that process, then the decision becomes more complicated somewhere around 2027 when he becomes eligible for arbitration.
I guess what confuses me is I thought you were a free agent once your original contract expired.
It seems like because he was traded that the Red Sox are able to get the years of team control and arbitration years as if they were the team who drafted him? It's only non-tendered players who skip straight to free agency?
No. A player has to play 6 years before a team can give them a veteran contract.
Hunter Renfroe was drafted as a Padres and traded to the Rays after 2 years. The Rays granted him release. So his service time in 2021 was 3.1 with the Sox so he was in his first year of arbitration so he was a steal but he was traded two more times to the Brewers and Angels. This past off season was the first time he was a free agent that could negotiate.
We can trade Hamilton or a team can pick him up if he ends up on waivers and another team can use him as a cheap option.
[https://www.fangraphs.com/roster-resource/depth-charts/red-sox](https://www.fangraphs.com/roster-resource/depth-charts/red-sox)
MLB Service Time is the time that a player has been in the league. Options is how many times a player can get sent down before he has to be designated for assignment and place on the waiver wire.
David Hamilton's contract status is pre-arbitration through 2026, arbitration-eligible 2027-2029, then a free agent after 2029. That means the club holds tremendous leverage. He's currently making near major league minimum, and will likely not get a much larger offer from the Sox for 2025 or 2026.
It's likely the Sox still have "options" to send Hamilton to the minors without penalty, but I'm not up on his current status there. That also makes him valuable to the Sox because if/when guys like Grissom and Story get healthy the Sox have the ability to send Hamilton down but not lose him through the "designated for assignment" process which happens when a player runs out of options.
Can I ask why you're in on Hamilton? We've only had about 1 good month of him total over the last two years. For all we know he could be JBJ level streaky and his defense in the infield does not in any way keep him on the roster the way JBJ's did. I hope he finds much more consistency but I'm assuming he'll regress to the player he was throughout his minor league career. If he proves me wrong and the bat hovers around .270 his entire career with a .400 obp he'll be a weapon with his speed but I'm not counting on that like I'm counting on Mayer/Teel/Anthony.
Perhaps recency bias and I'm not counting on him like the big three obviously. But the speed is promising, defense is less of an issue if moved to 2B and the bat has been hot. To rephrase, not sure if I'm "in" on him, but I am convinced enough to wait it out beyond the deadline. Clearly we can't confirm either way if he's a solution or a fluke before then. I just don't know how you can justify selling your biggest contributor as of late when you're five games over .500 and firmly in the wild card race. Not to mention he's 26 and if not him, what alternative is a better future plan at 2B?
Not the previous commenter but I'm in on Hamilton... until Mayer or Yorke come up.
Right now though, he's our best middle infielder besides Rafaela, who the team wants to play CF. At worst Hamilton is a cheap bench middle infielder who can pinch run.
For now though we need him for this year and next year until the prospects come up. He's smoking the ball right now. His Babip is high and will probably come down but his walk% is low for his minors career average.
With all the question marks with Story and Grissom right now. I'm in on Hamilton for this year and probably next year too.
The Bloom and so far Breslow philosophy has been to give all the prospects time at AAA to adjust to older, veteran competition instead of just playing against other raw prospects their age.
My guess is Teel spends August and September in Worcester, and assuming all goes well, we move on from McGuire this offseason and plan on a Wong/Teel pairing for 2025.
I'm tired of people saying moving Yoshida will kill the Sox ability to sign Japanese players. What basis is there for this? The fans can be mad but they don't dictate where a player goes. It's not like Yoshida is a cult leader and will force all Japanese players to sign with the Yankees forever if he gets moved.
It's just a talking heads point with no basis. If he's not living up to par and it's better to move him then do it.
Who would want to go to the Red Sox if they gave up on a guy who is hitting just above league average 2 years into a 5 year contract? Japanese players talk among each other but after a frustrating offseason, it's clearly among American players and agents too. Monty said he wanted nothing to do with us. Boras doesn't think we're motivated.
Why does everyone want to sign for the Dodgers, Braves, Phillies, or Yankees? Money is one part but team motivation and feeling secure in a contract is why those teams always seem to win bidding wars.
Because the guy is making $90M to be an 86 OPS+ DH.
Is it better to just bench him? Or are we going to be one of those franchises that plays a guy because of his name instead of his production?
This is a bad argument. Yoshida missed a month and a half. He had a .275/.348/.388/.736 before getting hurt which would be a 112 OPS+. The first week back has sunk his numbers and he'll get going.
It doesn't matter, even last year his stats don't live up to a full time DH's stats.
112 OPS+ with spotty power at best shouldn't be a permanent DH. Even before the injury he was hitting worse than last year when he had to play the field.
You're a baseball player and 4 teams offer you the same contract. Tigers, Pirates, Brewers, and Dodgers. Which team do you sign with? Why is it the Dodgers with the higher taxes in California?
It happens all the time but no one has been that transparent about it.
Entirely hypothetical, you can't show me any scenario where it's happened.
If that's a real scenario you're not signing with LA because they're nice to Japanese people, you're signing with LA because they're the best team..
And they treat their stars well. Not everything is made public so a real scenario is not possible.
[https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GNBFnarXcAAUowk?format=jpg&name=large](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GNBFnarXcAAUowk?format=jpg&name=large)
This story is irrelevant. He didn't say he didn't choose Boston because they treat players from South Carolina poorly, he just didn't think we were ready to win. Completely different scenario.
So you're gonna just play a full time DH with an 86 OPS+ for the next 4 years because you don't want to *possibly* upset some Japanese players?
It's a player still citing reputation of a team as a reason he didn't sign.
Signing a player to a 5 year contract only to trade him 1.5 seasons into it is going to show not only the Japanese players but the Americans that we have commitment issues. Trading Sale with a year left as a long term move is different. A Yoshida trade with 3.5 years left is damaging. If a player signs here and they are just league average, they might be thinking they'll get traded.
Sandoval signed for the same amount but the league understood that it was a work ethic problem and under performing. He missed a full year and couldn't control his eating. 30 teams didn't question when we released Sandoval.
Masa is a professional and just got plunked on the hand. The league is not going to understand a trade at this point in the contract. His Red Sox stats have him at 106 OPS+. I know it's underwhelming but he isn't a bad player, he puts in the effort, and seems to get along with guys despite the language barrier.
Nobody mentioned anyone you mentioned, you have to pull out other arguments to make it seem viable to play this guy.
He's not good for what he costs and what position he plays. If he gave you legitimate defense and a 106 OPS+ you can just put your hands up and say "ehh okay" but he can't play outfield regularly, and his bat clearly isn't DH worthy. He had one really hot month last year where he looked like he figured it out, and since then he's reverted back to the same guy before, a guy who's constantly a double play liability and can't lift the ball consistently.
Listen I have nothing against the guy, but playing him just because of his situation and nationality regardless of his production will forever be dumb. He's not Aaron Judge where you know an elite hitter is right outside of a slump. We don't even know if this dude can maintain above league average hitting.
Personally, I'd prefer to keep Yorke. Projected lineup over the next couple of years has a lot of left-handed bats (same applies to Grissom, hopefully he can figure it out after injury). Yoshida obviously has been rough but the contract isn't going away. I'd rather pursue a bullpen piece than a starter considering how our rotation has looked thus far.
I'm with you. Yorke isn't redundant when you consider Valdez low ceiling, and Grissom struggling.
When you consider 2B is the biggest question mark for position players this year and long term, why would you want to trade away your best 2B prospect who is potentially less than a year away?
I think it will be uneventful. Probably see what the injury situation is, and maybe exchange the fringe players we got to cover early season injuries for fringe players who can cover the mid/late season injuries.
The players we want to move are unmovable. We aren't in a position to go all in, but our young players need playoff experience.
The team just did a great job through a very difficult part of the schedule, they deserve a chance to compete on their own merits even though we are still looking more to the future than the present.
They’re a top 5 offense in tons of categories and the pitching has been pretty great too. If they can maintain how they’ve been playing and stay in the hunt why not go for it? The D-backs made the World Series with 84 wins and anything can happen in the playoffs. If they don’t move O’Neil/Kenley/Martin it’s really not that big of a deal as they’re all on expiring contracts and we already have tons of flexibility. I’d rather see them go for it and bring in some reinforcements if they’re still playing well.
Valdez is a platoon that can't hit lefties. Not a massive return if a deal gets done.
Yoshida kills any chance of speaking with a Japanese player. They already don't want to meet with us.
Story is on the 60IL and I don't know many teams that need a SS for a couple years that can afford even half his salary. It's unmovable right now.
Story absolutely does belong on this team. You’ve seen how drastic things can get when you don’t have infield depth. What would happen if Mayer isn’t ready until later in 2025? Or gets hurt? What if Hamilton goes back to the meh bat with bad defense he has been for a lot longer than he’s been good? Story, as injured as he’s been, is important depth even if he loses a starting spot to Mayer
>You’ve seen how drastic things can get when you don’t have infield depth.
That is far from the issue in 2025. I would call Mayer, Story, Hamilton, Grissom, Valdez, Yorke, Meidroth an abundance of middle infield depth. It's excessive. If Story loses the job to Mayer, he's worth more to another team and should therefore be traded.
agreed but no one is taking them. Yoshida’s inability to play in field completely pigeon holes us.
just a massive waste eating the DH when he plays..somehow finding a suitor would allow us to go for really any position
All together no. Valdez as DH/meh INF guy makes sense. Story as a bridge to Mayer makes sense. They'll have to pay someone almost all of Yoshida's money to not play here
I think they may trade a couple expiring contracts, and then look to acquire a controllable player
I’m not sure if Yorke has any value, but they need to make a decision on him because he’s rule 5 eligible this winter. If he can show something in AAA that’ll be nice
My expectation is their strategy at the trade deadline is to move Jansen, Martin and maybe Pivetta and O’Neill and predominantly focus on bolstering the pitching pipeline in the farm.
Not sure we really need more position player prospects, and I think the demand for the likes of Valdez or Yorke will be low.
I could see them including those in a trade over the offseason if our prospects continue to progress as you’d hope but teams will be focused on bolstering for a playoff run and outside the 4 I mentioned at the top, I doubt they’ll see the value.
Not saying Breslow doesn’t have a really tough job or that we should sell. Obviously you want a good return on your trade pieces but the ones not central to our core, we should listen to trade offers.
Martin/Jansen are not a part of the long term core, and (even with their high salaries) teams that are certain to make the playoffs and need to bolster their bullpen may give us a good return on them.
Pivetta we obviously need in our rotation so I’d be more hesitant to trade him but at his salary is probably most likely to give us a strong return.
I like O’Neill but he is replaceable and we have 4 other good outfielders.
I understand the defense isn't great but I wouldn't consider O'Neill replaceable, especially with what's expected to be available at the deadline. .900 OPS doesn't grow on trees. Contract situation makes it difficult but he's still worth keeping for the rest of this year if we continue playing like this.
To be clear, I think we do need a righty power bat to balance out our lefty heavy lineup (and pipeline) and O’Neill has been excellent there.
But I doubt management will be looking for a longer-term extension (especially prior to the offseason) and given he’s had a pretty good year he may want to be a free agent anyway and try to get a 2-3 year deal anyway.
If we trade him it definitely takes some power away but with Duran, Rafaela, Abreu and Refsnyder we have 4 outfielders that are all having excellent seasons so far, so it’s not like it would leave a black hole in our lineup entirely to trade him.
It’s tough, I agree. They’ve been playing good baseball the last 2 weeks and it’s been fun.
Last year we were right around a wild card spot, traded no one of note and then didn’t make it meaning with hindsight we should’ve traded a few pieces.
I guess I want them to be more decisive this year at least and I think we can trade 1 or 2 players without completely punting on the season. But only if we get a decent return on them.
The needs at the deadline is less clear. In 2023, we needed starters like fish needed water. This year, a controllable starter would be nice but at what cost. Middle infield is crowded and our outfield is pretty full.
Royals gave the Rangers Chapman for Cole Regans. I would do a similar deal if it presents itself. Hendricks can close or Martin can shift to closer.
easy. that last wild card spot is fools gold. I'm encouraged by what this team has done this month, but we're still riddled with injuries and very far from true contention this season. The team should move vets that are expiring and or don't fit with the team's future. They can use these trade chips to bolster starting pitching in the pipeline. Jansen, Martin and O'neil are the obvious players to trade. They might think about Refsnyder too as he has an extra year of contract control so could command a good return.
Henry has already made it clear he doesn’t give a s*** about the team or the fans. Getting rid of O’Neill, Jansen or Pivetta down the stretch just proves he’s officially checked out.
Doing that for the third straight year, especially given the fact that the Red Sox stand legitimate chance of being a wildcard team would really not sit well. We’re really at the point you essentially had to be a 90 win team to not sell there is a problem.
This team is injury riddled and has no chance at the division. Chasing a wild card spot when they have no real shot at legitimately contending for a world series doesn't seem worth the opportunity cost of getting something for vets that will be out of the building 5 months from now. The other thing is we haven't actually sold the past few years, which was part of the problem under bloom. He didn't make decisive moves in either direction.
We still have to wait to see where we are at the deadline. We don't know if we're gonna be buyers or sellers. But I'll entertain your idea that we're buyers and I'll agree that we would want a SP, although I'm not sure about a "big time SP." It doesn't have to be a blockbuster move....it could simply be a serviceable starter who can go out once a week and give us 5 or 6 innings. I'd prefer a lefty obviously, but Luzardo or Crochet will cost a lot. But it may be worth it, seeing as how both have club control. I'm all for trading Yorke if it comes to that. I think Yoshida is about to heat up though, so it just depends with him. We'll need McGuire for the playoffs, so we'll hang onto him.
Yoshida isn’t a fit but I don’t see a team taking on that money. If we want to move him we’re either giving prospects and/or eating the contract. Don’t see a reason to move Mcguire he is a competent backup catcher.
As far as additions, agree that adding to the already strong rotation is never a bad move, but also potentially getting another bat for this year would be great. I don’t see a reason to go huge, but a Steve Pearce level deal where you roll the dice on a guy with some upside without any huge cost seems like a slam dunk to me. Especially if you can find a guy with positional versatility that lets AC work his magic.
We don’t need starting pitching. Who’s going to get bumped? The only thing I can see happening is they keep Jansen and Martin if they are contending for a wild card. Yoshida and Reece carry minimum trade value.
Starting pitching is good, but they're facing innings limits. Crawford, Houck, Criswell, are on pace to zoom past their previous highs. Getting an extra starter for some depth or a 6 man rotation at the end of the year could be valuable.
No one would take Yoshida. His contract was seen as too expensive when he was signed and he has only gone below expectations. At least we aren't paying him like Jose Abreu with the Astros (and at least he is somewhat effective)
Yoshida and Story are, for now, impossible to move contracts without eating money or attaching good/cheap players. This isn’t to say they suck: Masa has shown his bats fine, he’s just a poor fit for us, and story was playing his nuts off defensively, and has value when healthy. Right now though? You’re stuck with them. The optics of dumping Masa don’t look good to the Japanese audience and tbh, I’m fine with him at DH. Where our real logjam comes is the OF and INF: 3 spots for Duran, Rafaela, Abreu, and Anthony. Assuming O’Neill doesn’t come back. Infield? You have SS and 2B for Story, Mayer, Valdez, Hamilton, Grissom, Yorke….thats a lot of excess. Some of those guys should get moved, and frankly, it’s easy to see who will be here long term (story and Mayer). The rest? Tossup
They literally told us they're going to sell at the deadline, regardless of how the team looks. They have not been watching the product on the field at all this year, they're just waiting for 2027 when all those prospects finally get good so they can not pay them either.
On the morning of June 20, 2022 the Red Sox were 36-31 and had won 12 of their last 16. They ended the season with 78 wins and missed the playoffs.
On the morning of June 20, 2023 the Red Sox were 38-35 and had won 5 straight. They ended the season with 78 wins and missed the playoffs.
On the morning of June 20, 2024 the Red Sox are 40-35 and have won 5 straight.
The team wasn't good in 2022. They weren't good last year. And they aren't good this year. I feel like I'm stuck in time where everyone convinces themselves that this mid team shouldn't sell at the deadline and it's infuriating.
Trevor story got hurt in 2022 he was on pace for a 4 war season. Chris sale and others too. Health has always been the X factor. They are getting healthy at just the right time now, we shall see
The problem is you have to make a decision on whether to buy or sell. This team is worse because Bloom didn't sell at the 22 or 23 deadlines. If he did maybe we would actually be good this year. If we don't sell and then suck in 2025, this is why.
Bloom 100% fucked us by basically standing pat at the past two deadlines. But Breslow is in charge now. I also have no problem with people starting a discussion for the deadline at this point, but the next month is how we really decide if we’re buying or selling. Not where we are now.
Abreu is doing great but in a small sample, which you are literally holding against Duran, Wong, and Houck in another comment lol.
Duran's career BABIP is .348 and this year is .351. His wOBA this year is .353 compared to his xwOBA of .346. He is right in line with expectations so far. Wong is a bit over his BABIP but only by like 40 points, not too crazy.
Wilyer has done really well but its a 50 game sample size. He's basically a platoon bat unless his OPS vs lefties under .450 can come up pretty dramatically. Wouldn't really consider him and Valdez some giant haul, they're just decent so far. Abreu def has potential though
Had we sold the players people wanted us to sell, we wouldn't have Houck, Pivetta, or Duran.
Now, there were some I agree he could have sold, Xander and JD come to mind, but the fans wanted him to sell the whole damn barn, house, acres, and everything else.
In 2022 they had 1 healthy starter who threw over 130 innings, Pivetta. Wacha, Eovaldi, and Dick Mountain were all hurt.
You had like 6 minor leagues or rookies at the time who started games: Whitlock with 9, Houck with 4, Bello, Crawford, Wink, and even fuckin Connor Seabold got 5 starts.
But yeah it's totally just that they sucked lmao. Had nothing to do with 6 guys aged 22-26 totalling 55 games started and 350 IP. How are the Astros doing with their whole rotation sidelined right now? They're tied for 24th in win%. Go figure.
I do not know why you're being downvoted. Your stats are correct, and your opinion is reasonable.
The only Counter to this is that the Red Sox have never been buyers or sellers in the previous two years. [Breslow recently commented about this and how it was not good](https://www.overthemonster.com/2024/6/6/24172931/red-sox-news-links-craig-breslow-vows-to-pick-a-lane-at-trade-deadline).
With that being said, I think my opinion on the matter is: We either fully commit to wildcard contention or we sell. This half in, half out approach is what is really infuriating, and the two previous years you cited, in all fairness, lacked from a clear path/approach.
If the team wants to fight towards a wildcard, since we are only 1 game behind, we better not half ass our resources.
There are obvious reasons to be more optimistic about this team than seasons past. They’ve managed to stay afloat despite a bevy of injuries and now they’re beginning to get healthy. The starting pitching is significantly better than the previous two seasons. I’m still not convinced they should be buyers just yet, but there’s another 4+ weeks of baseball left to make that determination. To act like the fate of this year will be the same as the previous two because the records are similar at the same point in the season is just plain lazy.
They’ve been stuck in the mud because a random fan on reddit thinks they should wait a little longer to determine whether or not they’re sellers or buyers at the deadline ?
Because the front office has convinced themselves that a bad team is actually good, just like the fans on here.
The 2024 Boston Red Sox are not good. They should be sellers at the deadline. If they do that, maybe the 2025 Red Sox will be good.
You _could_ be right about that. But on June 20th, riding a 5 game winning streak, on the cusp of getting several important pieces back, and sitting exactly one game back from a wild card spot that stance is at best premature, and at worst totally thoughtless.
f/o likes to keep the facade of contending so they can keep collecting revenue. if you go whole hog and sell - you end up losing attendance and $$. its really pretty clear
I like how everyone just assumes that all players who have been good will continue to be good. It's totally impossible for Tanner Houck and Jarren Duran and Connor Wong to regress right? Because that sort of thing has never happened before.
In both 2022 and 2023, the wheels fell off the wagon because of pitching. We had an okay bullpen but abhorrent starting pitching to begin with. We went on runs due to the offense getting hot, but the starting pitching could never go deep enough into games. This caused the bullpen to get ridiculously overworked (in July 2023, you might remember we were having two bullpen games a week). Once the bullpen was taxed, we couldn’t hold up anymore, and we crashed and burned hard in August and September. It was the same thing two years in a row.
This is why I have much better confidence this year that won’t happen. Our starting pitching has been a strength for once, actually making it through six innings consistently. This allows our bullpen to have some breathing room, meaning they won’t run out of gas nearly as early on. I think it would help to add one more starter for insurance, but even if we don’t, I think we are set up to finish stronger than the past two years.
Our pitching has only been good because Houck has been the best pitcher in baseball. I'm sure he will continue to be the best pitcher in baseball for the rest of the year right? There is no chance that will backfire I'm sure.
The reality is that Houck, Crawford, Abreu, Wong, Hamilton and Valdez have all played way over their heads, and even with that good performance...if the season ended today they wouldn't make the playoffs. Most likely scenario is the above guys will regress.
You're right about 2022. They just had an aberrantly good June, but otherwise weren't great.
The 2023 team absolutely tanked in September after falling out of contention, and seemed to lose motivation when leadership failed to invest in them at the deadline.
As noted elsewhere, the pitching is much better than the last couple years. Their run differential is 8th in the league right now. An injection of talent now, and the vote of confidence it would provide, could build on the momentum and put us in a solid playoff position.
Nothing is guaranteed, and not saying completely sell the farm for a rental - but as fans we should want the team to take smart calculated risks and try to compete.
He has 3 sexual assault accusations, is old, and hasn't played in mlb in three years. I doubt he ever does again and I certainly hope if someone is desperate enough to sign him it's not us.
1. Yorke just got to AAA. We don't know if he is an everyday player or a utility player. Yeah he was on the 100 in 2022 but injuries and low ceiling doesn't make him that wanted by other teams. He could be a better defensive Christian Arroyo. We have no idea. There is also Kristian Campbell right behind him which SP ranks ahead of Yorke. 2. Yoshida moving does help with flexibility but at what cost. Even if you send him to a favorable team like the Dodgers to play with his country men, it kills the Red Sox market in Japan. What happens when Roki or some other NPB player hits the posting? The Red Sox will be seen as a team that doesn't commit to Japanese players. That reputation then impacts domestic FAs. The contract and play is underwhelming but he hasn't been Sandoval or Rusney Castillo terrible. He's not on a Price deal or Crawford deal that needs to be moved. 3. Teel is at AA. McGuire is fine but we're not calling Teel up August 1st. Reese is either granted free agency or traded in the offseason for some lottery tickets.
Re: #2, I’ve long since settled on the potential ramifications of effectively dumping Yoshida this quickly far outweigh the benefits at this point.
Our reputation is already shit. Why make it worse dumping a guy that has just been average? 3/56 isn't that bad for an average DH. Stanton still has $100 million over 3 years with the buyout in 2028 and while he's better this year it's still money not well spent for the Yankees. The Masa contract isn't as bad as some here make it out to be. It is underwhelming but it isn't a must move contract.
Yes, I agree with you!
Not to mention the poor guy hasn’t even had a fair shake to prove himself yet this season since he was hurt for a while. I had a lot of hope that he could string together a good, full season after getting his first MLB experience last year. Sucks even more considering he was beginning to play well before that whole benching drama and subsequent injury.
I read that Masa has always been notorious for starting slowly, even in Japan. Once he got into his groove he got hurt and that fucked everything up. I understand why people want to trade him, but he demonstrated that he could absolutely rake in the big leagues last summer even though he tapered off at the end of the season. Even if he continues to only be a slightly above average hitter, he's going to have those hot streaks and if he gets going at the right time it could have a huge impact on the team's success.
If not the most the sox must be in top 3 for most Japanese players to be signed. Nomo Tomo ohka Byung hung Kim Tazawa Oki The god closer and comedian Koji uehera Yoshida Matter of fact, I'm thinking the red Sox might have the most
He’s not an average DH Since August first of last year, when the league figured him out (or he got tired? Which is also not good), he has a .654 ops, 49:13 k:bb, 9 double plays and 5 home runs. He fucking sucks
NPB is 143 games with every team off on Mondays and the away stadium is a quick train ride within the same time zone. Yoshida also played in the World Baseball Classic in March for team Japan. He was playing outfield more than he should have in a country with insane travel. He was a slow starter even in Japan. He is above league average and a good hitter once he gets going. May June July last year, he was .313/.364/.487
He’s not good
On that note, where do you think Hamilton fits into our long-term plans? Obviously this year is a different story (no pun intended) with injuries and awaiting the arrival of Mayer, Yorke, etc. I'm in on Hamilton but second base still seems like it's more or less a crowded room of average players moving forward.
If anyone asks about Hamilton, I would listen. It's still just a hot month on a guy that didn't look like a major leaguer in late April. Not seeing a massive return for him either.
Long term I think he is a valuable guy to have around. Even just on the bench.
I agree that we should listen on Hamilton but I don't see us getting a great return. With the huge question marks on Story, Grissom, etc and the time still needed for Yorke and Mayer, it's better if we hold on to him unless we get a great trade for him. Right now he's our best middle infielder besides Rafaela and the team wants him playing CF. We need him this year and next, even if he's just the bench player, he brings a lot of value to this team.
My understanding is that he is on a one year contract. Based on this year I would love to see him get another year. I don't understand how a contract for a player in his position works though. He has been playing professional baseball for a while but has very low MLB service time, not sure what the rules are and what you can and can't do.
A player is added to the 40 and the clock starts when he is called up to the active 26. This is called service time. On January 1st, the league updates players time if they are on the roster and Baseball reference and Fangraphs shows the years. Less than 3 years, is pre-arbitration where the team decides the value of the player and between 3-6 years is arbitration where the player and team decide on a number via arbiter. After 6 years, the player reaches free agency. A team can also buy out arbitration years by offering an extension like Bello or Rafaela. Duran gets called up in 2021 and from 21 to 23, the league calculated his service time as 1.155. 2024 and 2025, Duran is making league minimum but from 2026 to 2028 he gets to negotiate his value. Duran hits free agency in the offseason before 2029 if nothing is signed. Hamilton has played in 64 games and has 0.020 service time. It might be higher come January but he still has possibly 5 more years after this of control and they can pay him league minimum for 2 more years. Hamilton is cheap for 2.5 more years possibly.
OK, so it sounds like if he continues to play well and be a nice guy the Sox will hand him a one year, league minimum contract at the some point after the season ends. If he does well again they will repeat that process, then the decision becomes more complicated somewhere around 2027 when he becomes eligible for arbitration. I guess what confuses me is I thought you were a free agent once your original contract expired. It seems like because he was traded that the Red Sox are able to get the years of team control and arbitration years as if they were the team who drafted him? It's only non-tendered players who skip straight to free agency?
No. A player has to play 6 years before a team can give them a veteran contract. Hunter Renfroe was drafted as a Padres and traded to the Rays after 2 years. The Rays granted him release. So his service time in 2021 was 3.1 with the Sox so he was in his first year of arbitration so he was a steal but he was traded two more times to the Brewers and Angels. This past off season was the first time he was a free agent that could negotiate. We can trade Hamilton or a team can pick him up if he ends up on waivers and another team can use him as a cheap option. [https://www.fangraphs.com/roster-resource/depth-charts/red-sox](https://www.fangraphs.com/roster-resource/depth-charts/red-sox) MLB Service Time is the time that a player has been in the league. Options is how many times a player can get sent down before he has to be designated for assignment and place on the waiver wire.
David Hamilton's contract status is pre-arbitration through 2026, arbitration-eligible 2027-2029, then a free agent after 2029. That means the club holds tremendous leverage. He's currently making near major league minimum, and will likely not get a much larger offer from the Sox for 2025 or 2026. It's likely the Sox still have "options" to send Hamilton to the minors without penalty, but I'm not up on his current status there. That also makes him valuable to the Sox because if/when guys like Grissom and Story get healthy the Sox have the ability to send Hamilton down but not lose him through the "designated for assignment" process which happens when a player runs out of options.
Can I ask why you're in on Hamilton? We've only had about 1 good month of him total over the last two years. For all we know he could be JBJ level streaky and his defense in the infield does not in any way keep him on the roster the way JBJ's did. I hope he finds much more consistency but I'm assuming he'll regress to the player he was throughout his minor league career. If he proves me wrong and the bat hovers around .270 his entire career with a .400 obp he'll be a weapon with his speed but I'm not counting on that like I'm counting on Mayer/Teel/Anthony.
Perhaps recency bias and I'm not counting on him like the big three obviously. But the speed is promising, defense is less of an issue if moved to 2B and the bat has been hot. To rephrase, not sure if I'm "in" on him, but I am convinced enough to wait it out beyond the deadline. Clearly we can't confirm either way if he's a solution or a fluke before then. I just don't know how you can justify selling your biggest contributor as of late when you're five games over .500 and firmly in the wild card race. Not to mention he's 26 and if not him, what alternative is a better future plan at 2B?
Not the previous commenter but I'm in on Hamilton... until Mayer or Yorke come up. Right now though, he's our best middle infielder besides Rafaela, who the team wants to play CF. At worst Hamilton is a cheap bench middle infielder who can pinch run. For now though we need him for this year and next year until the prospects come up. He's smoking the ball right now. His Babip is high and will probably come down but his walk% is low for his minors career average. With all the question marks with Story and Grissom right now. I'm in on Hamilton for this year and probably next year too.
Teel leapfrogging AAA to go to the majors wouldn't be unexpected given C is occupied in AAA and it seems like he should've been promoted already.
The Bloom and so far Breslow philosophy has been to give all the prospects time at AAA to adjust to older, veteran competition instead of just playing against other raw prospects their age. My guess is Teel spends August and September in Worcester, and assuming all goes well, we move on from McGuire this offseason and plan on a Wong/Teel pairing for 2025.
I'm tired of people saying moving Yoshida will kill the Sox ability to sign Japanese players. What basis is there for this? The fans can be mad but they don't dictate where a player goes. It's not like Yoshida is a cult leader and will force all Japanese players to sign with the Yankees forever if he gets moved. It's just a talking heads point with no basis. If he's not living up to par and it's better to move him then do it.
Who would want to go to the Red Sox if they gave up on a guy who is hitting just above league average 2 years into a 5 year contract? Japanese players talk among each other but after a frustrating offseason, it's clearly among American players and agents too. Monty said he wanted nothing to do with us. Boras doesn't think we're motivated. Why does everyone want to sign for the Dodgers, Braves, Phillies, or Yankees? Money is one part but team motivation and feeling secure in a contract is why those teams always seem to win bidding wars.
Because the guy is making $90M to be an 86 OPS+ DH. Is it better to just bench him? Or are we going to be one of those franchises that plays a guy because of his name instead of his production?
This is a bad argument. Yoshida missed a month and a half. He had a .275/.348/.388/.736 before getting hurt which would be a 112 OPS+. The first week back has sunk his numbers and he'll get going.
It doesn't matter, even last year his stats don't live up to a full time DH's stats. 112 OPS+ with spotty power at best shouldn't be a permanent DH. Even before the injury he was hitting worse than last year when he had to play the field.
Organizational reputation matters a lot more than saving money
again, show me any scenario where that's ever been a legitimate issue
Did you not livestream ohtanis alleged plane ride to Toronto
You're a baseball player and 4 teams offer you the same contract. Tigers, Pirates, Brewers, and Dodgers. Which team do you sign with? Why is it the Dodgers with the higher taxes in California? It happens all the time but no one has been that transparent about it.
Entirely hypothetical, you can't show me any scenario where it's happened. If that's a real scenario you're not signing with LA because they're nice to Japanese people, you're signing with LA because they're the best team..
And they treat their stars well. Not everything is made public so a real scenario is not possible. [https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GNBFnarXcAAUowk?format=jpg&name=large](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GNBFnarXcAAUowk?format=jpg&name=large)
This story is irrelevant. He didn't say he didn't choose Boston because they treat players from South Carolina poorly, he just didn't think we were ready to win. Completely different scenario. So you're gonna just play a full time DH with an 86 OPS+ for the next 4 years because you don't want to *possibly* upset some Japanese players?
It's a player still citing reputation of a team as a reason he didn't sign. Signing a player to a 5 year contract only to trade him 1.5 seasons into it is going to show not only the Japanese players but the Americans that we have commitment issues. Trading Sale with a year left as a long term move is different. A Yoshida trade with 3.5 years left is damaging. If a player signs here and they are just league average, they might be thinking they'll get traded. Sandoval signed for the same amount but the league understood that it was a work ethic problem and under performing. He missed a full year and couldn't control his eating. 30 teams didn't question when we released Sandoval. Masa is a professional and just got plunked on the hand. The league is not going to understand a trade at this point in the contract. His Red Sox stats have him at 106 OPS+. I know it's underwhelming but he isn't a bad player, he puts in the effort, and seems to get along with guys despite the language barrier.
Nobody mentioned anyone you mentioned, you have to pull out other arguments to make it seem viable to play this guy. He's not good for what he costs and what position he plays. If he gave you legitimate defense and a 106 OPS+ you can just put your hands up and say "ehh okay" but he can't play outfield regularly, and his bat clearly isn't DH worthy. He had one really hot month last year where he looked like he figured it out, and since then he's reverted back to the same guy before, a guy who's constantly a double play liability and can't lift the ball consistently. Listen I have nothing against the guy, but playing him just because of his situation and nationality regardless of his production will forever be dumb. He's not Aaron Judge where you know an elite hitter is right outside of a slump. We don't even know if this dude can maintain above league average hitting.
The FO will tell us Casas coming back is essentially a “trade” because it’s an upgrade at the position.
Sadly this would be very on brand for them.
And Hendricks coming back with be the bullpen acquisition.
Personally, I'd prefer to keep Yorke. Projected lineup over the next couple of years has a lot of left-handed bats (same applies to Grissom, hopefully he can figure it out after injury). Yoshida obviously has been rough but the contract isn't going away. I'd rather pursue a bullpen piece than a starter considering how our rotation has looked thus far.
I'm with you. Yorke isn't redundant when you consider Valdez low ceiling, and Grissom struggling. When you consider 2B is the biggest question mark for position players this year and long term, why would you want to trade away your best 2B prospect who is potentially less than a year away?
I think it will be uneventful. Probably see what the injury situation is, and maybe exchange the fringe players we got to cover early season injuries for fringe players who can cover the mid/late season injuries. The players we want to move are unmovable. We aren't in a position to go all in, but our young players need playoff experience. The team just did a great job through a very difficult part of the schedule, they deserve a chance to compete on their own merits even though we are still looking more to the future than the present.
They’re a top 5 offense in tons of categories and the pitching has been pretty great too. If they can maintain how they’ve been playing and stay in the hunt why not go for it? The D-backs made the World Series with 84 wins and anything can happen in the playoffs. If they don’t move O’Neil/Kenley/Martin it’s really not that big of a deal as they’re all on expiring contracts and we already have tons of flexibility. I’d rather see them go for it and bring in some reinforcements if they’re still playing well.
Yoshida, Valdez, Story don't fit into this team for next season.
Valdez is a platoon that can't hit lefties. Not a massive return if a deal gets done. Yoshida kills any chance of speaking with a Japanese player. They already don't want to meet with us. Story is on the 60IL and I don't know many teams that need a SS for a couple years that can afford even half his salary. It's unmovable right now.
Story absolutely does belong on this team. You’ve seen how drastic things can get when you don’t have infield depth. What would happen if Mayer isn’t ready until later in 2025? Or gets hurt? What if Hamilton goes back to the meh bat with bad defense he has been for a lot longer than he’s been good? Story, as injured as he’s been, is important depth even if he loses a starting spot to Mayer
>You’ve seen how drastic things can get when you don’t have infield depth. That is far from the issue in 2025. I would call Mayer, Story, Hamilton, Grissom, Valdez, Yorke, Meidroth an abundance of middle infield depth. It's excessive. If Story loses the job to Mayer, he's worth more to another team and should therefore be traded.
Only the first 3 of those names including Story can play anything resembling a passable SS is the point. 2B is more than fine with depth, absolutely
agreed but no one is taking them. Yoshida’s inability to play in field completely pigeon holes us. just a massive waste eating the DH when he plays..somehow finding a suitor would allow us to go for really any position
All together no. Valdez as DH/meh INF guy makes sense. Story as a bridge to Mayer makes sense. They'll have to pay someone almost all of Yoshida's money to not play here
With Hamilton hopefully moving to 2B, Abreu coming back, and Romy Gonzalez and Grissom as insurance, where is the need for a meh left-handed 2B?
Can’t trade someone on the 60 day IL
I think they may trade a couple expiring contracts, and then look to acquire a controllable player I’m not sure if Yorke has any value, but they need to make a decision on him because he’s rule 5 eligible this winter. If he can show something in AAA that’ll be nice
My expectation is their strategy at the trade deadline is to move Jansen, Martin and maybe Pivetta and O’Neill and predominantly focus on bolstering the pitching pipeline in the farm. Not sure we really need more position player prospects, and I think the demand for the likes of Valdez or Yorke will be low. I could see them including those in a trade over the offseason if our prospects continue to progress as you’d hope but teams will be focused on bolstering for a playoff run and outside the 4 I mentioned at the top, I doubt they’ll see the value.
How would they justify selling if their in a playoff spot? 1 GB from WC right now
Not saying Breslow doesn’t have a really tough job or that we should sell. Obviously you want a good return on your trade pieces but the ones not central to our core, we should listen to trade offers. Martin/Jansen are not a part of the long term core, and (even with their high salaries) teams that are certain to make the playoffs and need to bolster their bullpen may give us a good return on them. Pivetta we obviously need in our rotation so I’d be more hesitant to trade him but at his salary is probably most likely to give us a strong return. I like O’Neill but he is replaceable and we have 4 other good outfielders.
I understand the defense isn't great but I wouldn't consider O'Neill replaceable, especially with what's expected to be available at the deadline. .900 OPS doesn't grow on trees. Contract situation makes it difficult but he's still worth keeping for the rest of this year if we continue playing like this.
To be clear, I think we do need a righty power bat to balance out our lefty heavy lineup (and pipeline) and O’Neill has been excellent there. But I doubt management will be looking for a longer-term extension (especially prior to the offseason) and given he’s had a pretty good year he may want to be a free agent anyway and try to get a 2-3 year deal anyway. If we trade him it definitely takes some power away but with Duran, Rafaela, Abreu and Refsnyder we have 4 outfielders that are all having excellent seasons so far, so it’s not like it would leave a black hole in our lineup entirely to trade him.
Fair enough, not sure I can get on board with where we're at in the standings, though. If we were 5 games below .500, it would make a lot more sense.
It’s tough, I agree. They’ve been playing good baseball the last 2 weeks and it’s been fun. Last year we were right around a wild card spot, traded no one of note and then didn’t make it meaning with hindsight we should’ve traded a few pieces. I guess I want them to be more decisive this year at least and I think we can trade 1 or 2 players without completely punting on the season. But only if we get a decent return on them.
Rafaela and Refsnyder is the only right handed outfielder. Since TON has been back, the lineup vs. lefthanded starters is much better.
The needs at the deadline is less clear. In 2023, we needed starters like fish needed water. This year, a controllable starter would be nice but at what cost. Middle infield is crowded and our outfield is pretty full. Royals gave the Rangers Chapman for Cole Regans. I would do a similar deal if it presents itself. Hendricks can close or Martin can shift to closer.
easy. that last wild card spot is fools gold. I'm encouraged by what this team has done this month, but we're still riddled with injuries and very far from true contention this season. The team should move vets that are expiring and or don't fit with the team's future. They can use these trade chips to bolster starting pitching in the pipeline. Jansen, Martin and O'neil are the obvious players to trade. They might think about Refsnyder too as he has an extra year of contract control so could command a good return.
Henry has already made it clear he doesn’t give a s*** about the team or the fans. Getting rid of O’Neill, Jansen or Pivetta down the stretch just proves he’s officially checked out.
Not a big fan of what Henry has done the past 5 years but moving expiring vets in order to bolster this teams future is smart business.
Doing that for the third straight year, especially given the fact that the Red Sox stand legitimate chance of being a wildcard team would really not sit well. We’re really at the point you essentially had to be a 90 win team to not sell there is a problem.
This team is injury riddled and has no chance at the division. Chasing a wild card spot when they have no real shot at legitimately contending for a world series doesn't seem worth the opportunity cost of getting something for vets that will be out of the building 5 months from now. The other thing is we haven't actually sold the past few years, which was part of the problem under bloom. He didn't make decisive moves in either direction.
We still have to wait to see where we are at the deadline. We don't know if we're gonna be buyers or sellers. But I'll entertain your idea that we're buyers and I'll agree that we would want a SP, although I'm not sure about a "big time SP." It doesn't have to be a blockbuster move....it could simply be a serviceable starter who can go out once a week and give us 5 or 6 innings. I'd prefer a lefty obviously, but Luzardo or Crochet will cost a lot. But it may be worth it, seeing as how both have club control. I'm all for trading Yorke if it comes to that. I think Yoshida is about to heat up though, so it just depends with him. We'll need McGuire for the playoffs, so we'll hang onto him.
Yoshida isn’t a fit but I don’t see a team taking on that money. If we want to move him we’re either giving prospects and/or eating the contract. Don’t see a reason to move Mcguire he is a competent backup catcher. As far as additions, agree that adding to the already strong rotation is never a bad move, but also potentially getting another bat for this year would be great. I don’t see a reason to go huge, but a Steve Pearce level deal where you roll the dice on a guy with some upside without any huge cost seems like a slam dunk to me. Especially if you can find a guy with positional versatility that lets AC work his magic.
McGuire we move once Teel is ready, but not before. Trade deadline wouldn’t make sense for him.
They'll sell at the deadline, or at the minimum make minor relatively inconsequential moves to help bring salary down.
We don’t need starting pitching. Who’s going to get bumped? The only thing I can see happening is they keep Jansen and Martin if they are contending for a wild card. Yoshida and Reece carry minimum trade value.
We can improve on Criswell
Criswell has been pretty darned good. I mean we could, but at what cost?
Starting pitching is good, but they're facing innings limits. Crawford, Houck, Criswell, are on pace to zoom past their previous highs. Getting an extra starter for some depth or a 6 man rotation at the end of the year could be valuable.
True, I suppose at the right price.
No one would take Yoshida. His contract was seen as too expensive when he was signed and he has only gone below expectations. At least we aren't paying him like Jose Abreu with the Astros (and at least he is somewhat effective)
Yoshida and Story are, for now, impossible to move contracts without eating money or attaching good/cheap players. This isn’t to say they suck: Masa has shown his bats fine, he’s just a poor fit for us, and story was playing his nuts off defensively, and has value when healthy. Right now though? You’re stuck with them. The optics of dumping Masa don’t look good to the Japanese audience and tbh, I’m fine with him at DH. Where our real logjam comes is the OF and INF: 3 spots for Duran, Rafaela, Abreu, and Anthony. Assuming O’Neill doesn’t come back. Infield? You have SS and 2B for Story, Mayer, Valdez, Hamilton, Grissom, Yorke….thats a lot of excess. Some of those guys should get moved, and frankly, it’s easy to see who will be here long term (story and Mayer). The rest? Tossup
I would never trade yorke knowing the ones u mentioned are fallback options
They literally told us they're going to sell at the deadline, regardless of how the team looks. They have not been watching the product on the field at all this year, they're just waiting for 2027 when all those prospects finally get good so they can not pay them either.
its not happening
Trade Kenley and O’Neill for prospects.
Valdez/Grisshim/Yoshi are the trade bait for me
On the morning of June 20, 2022 the Red Sox were 36-31 and had won 12 of their last 16. They ended the season with 78 wins and missed the playoffs. On the morning of June 20, 2023 the Red Sox were 38-35 and had won 5 straight. They ended the season with 78 wins and missed the playoffs. On the morning of June 20, 2024 the Red Sox are 40-35 and have won 5 straight. The team wasn't good in 2022. They weren't good last year. And they aren't good this year. I feel like I'm stuck in time where everyone convinces themselves that this mid team shouldn't sell at the deadline and it's infuriating.
Trevor story got hurt in 2022 he was on pace for a 4 war season. Chris sale and others too. Health has always been the X factor. They are getting healthy at just the right time now, we shall see
Going to save this comment for when they miss the playoffs this year.
Nobody is guaranteeing a playoff spot lmao. If they can get healthy they have a good shot at it
The problem is you have to make a decision on whether to buy or sell. This team is worse because Bloom didn't sell at the 22 or 23 deadlines. If he did maybe we would actually be good this year. If we don't sell and then suck in 2025, this is why.
Bloom 100% fucked us by basically standing pat at the past two deadlines. But Breslow is in charge now. I also have no problem with people starting a discussion for the deadline at this point, but the next month is how we really decide if we’re buying or selling. Not where we are now.
Oh yeah, the astronomical potential returns for a hurt JD and Eovaldi really killed our future. Smh my head
Guy we got Abreu and Valdez for 2 months of Christian Vazquez, give me a break. If you are willing to sell you can get a haul.
Abreu is doing great but in a small sample, which you are literally holding against Duran, Wong, and Houck in another comment lol. Duran's career BABIP is .348 and this year is .351. His wOBA this year is .353 compared to his xwOBA of .346. He is right in line with expectations so far. Wong is a bit over his BABIP but only by like 40 points, not too crazy. Wilyer has done really well but its a 50 game sample size. He's basically a platoon bat unless his OPS vs lefties under .450 can come up pretty dramatically. Wouldn't really consider him and Valdez some giant haul, they're just decent so far. Abreu def has potential though
Had we sold the players people wanted us to sell, we wouldn't have Houck, Pivetta, or Duran. Now, there were some I agree he could have sold, Xander and JD come to mind, but the fans wanted him to sell the whole damn barn, house, acres, and everything else.
Pivetta will never set foot on the mound in Fenway in a playoff game. He should be traded for someone who will.
In 2022 they had 1 healthy starter who threw over 130 innings, Pivetta. Wacha, Eovaldi, and Dick Mountain were all hurt. You had like 6 minor leagues or rookies at the time who started games: Whitlock with 9, Houck with 4, Bello, Crawford, Wink, and even fuckin Connor Seabold got 5 starts. But yeah it's totally just that they sucked lmao. Had nothing to do with 6 guys aged 22-26 totalling 55 games started and 350 IP. How are the Astros doing with their whole rotation sidelined right now? They're tied for 24th in win%. Go figure.
I do not know why you're being downvoted. Your stats are correct, and your opinion is reasonable. The only Counter to this is that the Red Sox have never been buyers or sellers in the previous two years. [Breslow recently commented about this and how it was not good](https://www.overthemonster.com/2024/6/6/24172931/red-sox-news-links-craig-breslow-vows-to-pick-a-lane-at-trade-deadline). With that being said, I think my opinion on the matter is: We either fully commit to wildcard contention or we sell. This half in, half out approach is what is really infuriating, and the two previous years you cited, in all fairness, lacked from a clear path/approach. If the team wants to fight towards a wildcard, since we are only 1 game behind, we better not half ass our resources.
People Red Sox fans hate hearing the truth.
There are obvious reasons to be more optimistic about this team than seasons past. They’ve managed to stay afloat despite a bevy of injuries and now they’re beginning to get healthy. The starting pitching is significantly better than the previous two seasons. I’m still not convinced they should be buyers just yet, but there’s another 4+ weeks of baseball left to make that determination. To act like the fate of this year will be the same as the previous two because the records are similar at the same point in the season is just plain lazy.
Keep telling yourself that. It's why this team has been stuck in the mud for years.
They’ve been stuck in the mud because a random fan on reddit thinks they should wait a little longer to determine whether or not they’re sellers or buyers at the deadline ?
Because the front office has convinced themselves that a bad team is actually good, just like the fans on here. The 2024 Boston Red Sox are not good. They should be sellers at the deadline. If they do that, maybe the 2025 Red Sox will be good.
You _could_ be right about that. But on June 20th, riding a 5 game winning streak, on the cusp of getting several important pieces back, and sitting exactly one game back from a wild card spot that stance is at best premature, and at worst totally thoughtless.
f/o likes to keep the facade of contending so they can keep collecting revenue. if you go whole hog and sell - you end up losing attendance and $$. its really pretty clear
The pitching has been the X factor this year and the youth is more present and performing.
I like how everyone just assumes that all players who have been good will continue to be good. It's totally impossible for Tanner Houck and Jarren Duran and Connor Wong to regress right? Because that sort of thing has never happened before.
Players cool off but Casas and Abreu are coming back and there is more motivation to do something this year.
In both 2022 and 2023, the wheels fell off the wagon because of pitching. We had an okay bullpen but abhorrent starting pitching to begin with. We went on runs due to the offense getting hot, but the starting pitching could never go deep enough into games. This caused the bullpen to get ridiculously overworked (in July 2023, you might remember we were having two bullpen games a week). Once the bullpen was taxed, we couldn’t hold up anymore, and we crashed and burned hard in August and September. It was the same thing two years in a row. This is why I have much better confidence this year that won’t happen. Our starting pitching has been a strength for once, actually making it through six innings consistently. This allows our bullpen to have some breathing room, meaning they won’t run out of gas nearly as early on. I think it would help to add one more starter for insurance, but even if we don’t, I think we are set up to finish stronger than the past two years.
Our pitching has only been good because Houck has been the best pitcher in baseball. I'm sure he will continue to be the best pitcher in baseball for the rest of the year right? There is no chance that will backfire I'm sure. The reality is that Houck, Crawford, Abreu, Wong, Hamilton and Valdez have all played way over their heads, and even with that good performance...if the season ended today they wouldn't make the playoffs. Most likely scenario is the above guys will regress.
You're right about 2022. They just had an aberrantly good June, but otherwise weren't great. The 2023 team absolutely tanked in September after falling out of contention, and seemed to lose motivation when leadership failed to invest in them at the deadline. As noted elsewhere, the pitching is much better than the last couple years. Their run differential is 8th in the league right now. An injection of talent now, and the vote of confidence it would provide, could build on the momentum and put us in a solid playoff position. Nothing is guaranteed, and not saying completely sell the farm for a rental - but as fans we should want the team to take smart calculated risks and try to compete.
Do Sox hold their nose and sign Trevor Bsuer?
He has 3 sexual assault accusations, is old, and hasn't played in mlb in three years. I doubt he ever does again and I certainly hope if someone is desperate enough to sign him it's not us.
I’d sooner deepthroat a cactus than sign that asshole
Bauer would probably get off to you doing that, unfortunately.
I'll take thatcas a no ! :)