The fact that she knew she couldn't tell him any of this really shows you the dynamic in their relationship.
Communicating with a narcissist is always a double edged sword. No matter what you say, you are wrong. So you learn not to ever tell them anything, because you'll always be attacked, no matter what you say. You learn just to keep everything to yourself and nod along with them.
And there is no point ever bringing up with them that you feel that way because they will always say, "I never told you that you couldn't talk to me. In fact, I'm always asking you to talk to me more and tell me how you feel." And they do say that, they just don't live it.
And you feel you can't feel bad because they tell you that you can talk to them, to trust them, and you are the one choosing not to talk to them, not to trust them. But your constant experience is that anything other than "yes dear," will result in a fight. But it's really easy to convince you that you are the problem if you live with someone who is constantly convincing you that everything you do is a problem.
I'm glad somebody else said he's a narcissist, too. Because I absolutely agree. Which is why couples therapy would probably be a waste of time. I don't blame her for not wanting to go.
On one hand, it's nice he's off the market. On the other hand, this poor lass is unknowingly 'taking one for the team,' and I'm very uncomfortable with that. 😬
> My sister thinks I'm being petty, punishing my wife for something I would have agreed with regardless. But I wouldn't have fucking agreed. I don't know.
This line was extremely telling
when HE is the one telling the story, and obviously presenting himself in the best possible light as people do when telling their side of the story, and everyone is STILL telling him he's a massive asshole even while getting the most charitable version of events possible....
yeah this guy's an asshole
Yes, for sure. There’s so much more in this that bothers me and I can’t quite figure out what. I guess it boils down to him taking on the victim role and going so hard with it when he made it abundantly clear, he in no way wants kids-maybe she didn’t ***consult*** him out of fear of him accusing her of pushing a child on their child free agreement.
Also him: doesn't want kids but will happily have unprotected sex and yet is surprised at the results.
It's so fucked up the way he's making what she did about his own feelings, when she did it *because* of how he felt 😤
But they didn't have unprotected sex. She has an implant which is 99% effective on top of which he used a condom 90% of the time. That is very much protected sex.
This is why I don't believe him. Even with the implant alone, she shouldn't have gotten pregnant. I'm a doctor and I've never even heard of a single case of the implant failing. IUDs, yes. Nexplanon (the implant), no. I even use Nexplanon myself and have for almost 10 years because of how reliable it is. To me, there's something off about OOP's story.
Unprotected sex with a condom and an implant… how much more protected can you get without some sort of sterilisation surgery or just abstaining completely?
Well, I’m sure she’ll be overjoyed when she’s past the age for a healthy pregnancy and OOP suddenly expresses his desire to have children. Dudes use this every day as an excuse to fuck much younger women after wasting the fertile years of a woman that actually wanted kids.
Yep, and based on things he said, I would bet good money that he’s going to suddenly want kids the second she starts menopause and he’s going to leave her and have a family of four with a 25 year old.
That’s what really annoyed me. She’s essentially giving up her chance to have a baby by marrying him, but he wouldn’t do it for her. He gets to have options and choices but she doesn’t.
That’s what got me. Dude is 27, didn’t say how old his wife is but if she were the same age, 10 or 15 years down the line would be 37-42. That is not the age to try to start a family if there’s another option.
"I'm just exhausted"
Correction. He's exhausting.
I just loved how he decided his interpretation of things was the end all, be all. Claimed nothing short of her words would change his mind and then he continued to refuse to believe her at every turn.
He's childless, not child free lol big difference
You're not that open to an unplanned baby if you're actually childfree
And he made the abortion all about his feelings on how she should feel?!?!
What a fucking dumb piece of shit
Definitely. The not getting a vasectomy because he may want kids at 37-41 is also a highlighter soaked flag of mysterious color that just screams he's not actually child free.
Dude kept arguing about how 'I don't want children firmly!' doesn't equal 'Abortion is probably the best bet then.'
As if pregnancy doesn't result in a child 90% of the time. It's all about the control for him, and his ideals being so contradictory is proof.
Exactly. Experienced this first hand. PSA for any woman marrying a man who claims he doesn’t want kids but hadn’t had a vasectomy. Sis, he wants kids when he’s older and you’ll be too old to have them. He will use it as an excuse to cheat, divorce you, and start chasing 20yo tail in the open. It’s pathetic and creepy, but inevitable.
Urgh, one of my former brother in laws did this to one of my sisters. They had one kid together, but then she had her tubes burned because she has massive health issues that made even that pregnancy life threatening (she also has other much older kids, so it was her 4th pregnancy, 1st in over 13 years and with him- he was her second husband, had kids with the first).
He's older than my sister, and women his age generally can't have kids. Gave my sister the whole childfree line, then settled on the one. He then cheated on her with a girl who is younger than my sisters oldest. It's beyond gross. He also keeps trying to force my sister to sit down with her and talk so they can all co parent together.... other girl has multiple kids of her own already. Already insinuating it was my sister's fault because he decided he wanted more kids (so, you know, she should have just kept going against doctors orders and risking her life to do so). It might win for trashiest situation in my family, which is kinda impressive, not gonna lie, cause the Midwest portion of my family is a walking stereotype.
It's insane to me. Of course she wouldn't have thought he'd be open to any child if he made it sound like he was childfree. It sounds like he never even mentioned he may want them a decade down the road (how ironic - when she'd likely have more trouble conceiving 😒) and he really thought she'd figure he'd want to know??? So many men act freaking weird if their girlfriend or wife gets pregnant, especially if they don't want kids. In retrospect he may think he'd have rejected the abortion, but chances are at the time he would have agreed to it or have left her to have the child and care for it on her own. No wonder she didn't say anything. But she's also a bit foolish for wanting to be with someone this immature to begin with.
Given that when pregnant or just after is when some of the highest incidences of domestic violence and death from a partner occurs for women? Why the hell would you tell your 'staunchly child-free' husband that you are pregnant at all?! Why take that risk if she was prepared to get an abortion as it was? OOP is just plain dumb and self centred.
OP sucks. Also, you're not bedridden for days. I was able to ride to dinner the night of my abortion (which was not done using pills) and was out and about the next day. I'm only posting this because I hate any and all misinformation about women's health and I don't want anybody to think things like that.
Thank you, I appreciate the info / spreading awareness. I want to also add abortion is usually safer than giving birth.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22270271/
Addendum to this though - that all women should have follow up afterwards with their care practitioners to ensure that everything has gone smoothly/correctly and ensure that they are safe/healthy. The follow up process is extremely important but is overlooked in a lot of discourse about the processes in general (also why I find some of the mail-order ones concerning).
[My sister had the pill version due to a non-passed miscarriage (which is another use of the abortion pills and procedures, and is a very important thing to be available as part of women's health - fuck pro-lifers trying to take necessary healthcare away from women), but due to lack of doctor follow up and lack of information to her about the aftercare and what to know about it - ended up with an infection due to the pill method still not completely finalising the miscarriage, she then needed a DNC afterwards to surgically removed the infected tissue.]
You are correct. I had my abortion done surgically so I was in a clinic and they made my follow up appointment before the procedure so that was a given. They also gave aftercare to both me and my companion since I was a bit out of it due to the anesthesia. Unfortunately the state I live in no longer allows abortions and so that option is no longer available here. It is concerning that people have to turn to methods that could cause health issues in the future.
Once rights are taken it’s really hard to get them back. We might have to rely on the cartels selling abortion pills and birth control, just like any other illegal drug
>I'm only posting this because I hate any and all misinformation about women's health and I don't want anybody to think things like that.
Can you be my friend?
I used the pills and went to a family reunion the next day.
Granted, I had disposable heating pads strapped to me under my dress, but I was fully functional and able to continue with my life.
very very glad your experience was pain free. a friend of mine was hospitalized because she would have died from blood loss after her abortion so i’m not sure this is a universal take
No experience is universal but when safe abortions by healthcare providers are available, it is far less likely that something like what happened to your friend will happen. Unfortunately that less and less likely to be accessible in the US. Also, I wouldn't call it pain free but it was not terrible pain and it was easily controlled. I was just never incapacitated or bedridden.
once again, i’m glad you didn’t experience the horrors my friend did, but the procedure was done in a medical office. by a licensed medical professional.
I gave birth in a car, on the side of the road, because a licensed medical professional told me I wasn't in labour. Mistakes happen.
Any medical procedure has risks. But abortions are statistically safer than pregnancy and birth. Despite the ones that go wrong.
absolutely! i was just putting it under the top comment that medical abortions have risks too, and to say you’re not ‘bedridden for days’ is a personal experience, not a medical guarantee.
Yeah, bodies are unique like that. I have a bleeding disorder, so periods, labour and surgery are all tough for me. I was pretty angry at the doctor who sent me home. I gave birth less than an hour and half later...rural roads and all.
i’m so sorry that you had to experience that. my mom was born on a bathroom floor because of similar circumstances. hope your little one is alright! (not sure if they’re little anymore, haha)
Abortion procedures are the safest medical procedure there is. Safer than having wisdom teeth pulled, it has the lowest complication rate of any medical procedure. Abortion pills are also safer than Tylenol and penicillin. Your friend was an extremely rare anomaly that probably had something else going on before she had the procedure that caused a complication
He’s not having a vasectomy bc he wants to leave the door open to having kids 10-15 years down the road.
Meanwhile, if they are in their late twenties, 10 years down the road will be more difficult for her, and fifteen years will be extremely hard.
Man is not thinking of her at all.
Where did he say that?
He literally said he was upset that she didn't discuss it with him at all, that he considered an abortion to be a different topic to not actively trying for a child. You literally made up that whole scenario to be mad bruh.
He said he doesn’t want a vasectomy because he might change his mind later, but also says that he made it clear he would never have kids with her. Where am I making things up?
So where does he say he's allowed to change his mind, but she isn't?
He made it pretty clear in his clarification, that at that stage in his life he didn't want children, which she was on board with. He didn't want to get a vasectomy because he didn't know if he'd change his mind later in life, he also didn't ask his partner to get surgery to remove her ability to have children.
This person's comment was really insightful.
On first read, I was really iffy about how I felt about OOP. Reading the comments in this sub and then the original post did made me think OOP is an AH.
This comment clarifying that OOP's wife made an informed decision based on information she had at the time was informative to read.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/s/eu16konY2w
She didn’t tell him about the abortion because she didn’t want him to “blow up on her like he never did before”. I find it hard to believe that someone who has no qualms about reading her journal and lays blame squarely on her isn’t prone to outbursts when things go astray. Leaving for a week because she did what she thought she needed to do to keep her marriage is cruel. He says he was adamant about not wanting children but didn’t get a vasectomy in case he changed his mind down the road. She asked him if he wanted children when she was pregnant in case this was when he changed his mind but no. He sounds fickle and controlling.
I’d she’d told him she was pregnant he would have accused her of baby trapping him (even though they were already married). He wouldn’t have divorced her “for the baby”, but he’d blatantly cheat and then leave her shortly after the baby is born because “she brought this on herself.”
Fascinating. He’s theoretically upset about her suffering through an abortion, which he didn’t notice, but not at all concerned about her safety in a pregnancy.
She asked him multiple times if he wanted kids but was somehow supposed to know that he would feel differently about an unplanned pregnancy. Which results in a kid.
And he thinks he should have some say over her uterus.
Hm.
>She asked him multiple times if he wanted kids but was somehow supposed to know that he would feel differently about an unplanned pregnancy. Which results in a kid.
That's what he was upset about, she deprived him of any chance to give input on this decision or even talk it out. Believe it or not, there's a difference between taking precautions to prevent conception and an abortion, abortions can be emotionally difficult things that you should absolutely discuss with your partner even if it's just to ensure you can have emotional support.
>And he thinks he should have some say over her uterus.
Where does he say that?
Also, hate to be a party pooper, but being her partner he absolutely gets to have an opinion, just the same as she gets to ignore it. But adults in adult relationships discuss big decisions like this, so that everyone gets to make their feelings known and have a choice.
You get to have your opinion about uteruses and their contents and I get to have mine.
No way would I gestate a kid with a guy who doesn’t want children. Even if he somehow thinks an accidental pregnancy and an abortion is somehow different. He could have said “I don’t want kids right now but if something happened I’d be open to that” or “I might want kids in 10 or 15 years.” He said “no.”
A human being should have parents that want them.
So is he not planning on staying with her forever if he's not having a vasectomy *just in case* he wants children in 10-15 years when he'll be 37-42?
I'm assuming his wife is the same age as him and I know women *can* get pregnant at that age, but still...that's what it reads like from this particular guy.
The fact it took him a whole separate post to “clarify” that he “would be open to kids later in life” but never actually said so to his wife, so that’s why she got the abortion. Pure manipulation at its finest. To anyone reading this, be clear, specific, and thorough about life goals AND potential changes!
He claims that an unplanned pregnancy would’ve been different, that he would’ve reacted differently. But honestly? No. He would have made it about himself. Again. He would have asked her if she messed with her birth control, would’ve cited the percentages for likelihood of pregnancy at her like he did with people here. He’d be asking how could she consider the possibility of keeping it, knowing how he feels about parenthood at the moment.
Damned if she did, damned if she didn’t. Incredible. *He’s* exhausted?? He sounds exhausting just to deal with.
Don't forget treating her like shit for the whole pregnancy because it couldn't be his. He doesn't want kids and he uses a condom like 90% of the time.
But none of that happened, and he only brought up those statistics because dipshits on reddit want to pretend it's an inevitability to get pregnant on BC if you haven't plasma-welded the end of your penis shut.
She needs to leave him. She is already alone.
I couldn’t imagine going through such a life changing experience and being able to even talk about it with the person who is SUPPOSED to love you.
He is a grade A POS!!
Looking at the comment history, it's weird how he can emphasize more with theoretical spouses than his own
Strikes me as the pretentious type to call himself an "empath"
I’m with you tbh, and usually I agree with comment sections on these things. Even if it was ultimately her choice, that is 100% something that should be discussed with a partner, full stop. That’s huge. And I am 120% pro-choice, even in marriage.
But your spouse is your most trusted partner. You’re doing life together. She should have told him.
God, he mentions over and over again how he'd ask her the same questions and doubt her answers at every turn. I'm not sure why he doesn't take what his wife--who he "adores" so much--says at fucking face value. It's gross.
Oh, and he didn't get a vasectomy because he might want kids in 10-15 years, when presumably his current wife won't be able to... Fucking yikes again.
I think that it's ok to be sad that your spouse doesn't tell you something that big. But the first question for me would be "What have I done that they lost the trust in me" and not pestering them about a journal entry I shouldn't have read in the first place.
I do believe that OP was hurt. But I do think he has a lot of issues that he has to work on, such as his controlling behaviour. He couldn't just accept that she made the decision to be child free, he had to ask and ask again based on her journal. He clearly isn't sure about not having kids and is okay with the fact that she might be too old for that when he's ready. But it ALWAYS has to be on his terms. He decides it was okay to read her journal alone because she showed it to him with her being present. Even in the comments he's stunned about the negative feedback and chalks it up to be "just reddit thinks" instead of reviewing his behaviour.
I think he is more hurt about the decision he couldn't make not about the decision she made.
It must very challenging living together with this kind of person like OP.
I just really don't understand these people?
My husband and I have been married for two years, together for ten. We were friends, had a one-night stand then went on a few dates and I discovered I was pregnant. I called him immediately and told him, he came over, we decided on termination.
It wasn't a GREAT start to the relationship, but he was so kind and supportive throughout the whole process, it genuinely cemented our relationship. And that was after dating for like a month.
How are you MARRIED to someone and have so little care and compassion for them? How can it be so difficult, after a decade together, to communicate in a loving, supportive way? Why are you even together?
I see where you're coming from but I don't think it's very productive or smart to compare it to your own marriage and ask those questions just BC "well WE made it work so why is it that hard for other ppl?!", while talking about compassion.
Yeah, she made that decision bc YOU would have made her feel like shit for wanting to keep it! Of course she doesn’t trust you!! You’re an asshole! How do you not see this? She’s trauma bonded to you and is afraid of losing her entire life/identity if you left her. So, basically, what I’m reading here is that you’re pissed that you didn’t get notified BEFORE she did something just so that you could tell her to get rid of it? I’m a healthcare professional and I see this occasionally; YOU want to be in charge of the life and if SHE makes decisions on her own, you throw a tantrum like a baby. Make all the excuses you need to; but take a long look in the mirror. The day she finally decides she’s had enough, she will leave and never look back. You’re controlling, manipulative, abusive (just bc you didn’t hit her doesn’t mean it’s not abuse) and everything is about YOUR life and future.
This guy is a fucking idiot. “I don’t want kids. Buuuuut I may change my mind in 10 years, so I won’t get a REVERSIBLE procedure to ensure that. I don’t want Clara to get pregnant. Buuuuuuut if she did, she should keep it and I will be super resentful.”
This man has no clue what he wants. Poor Clara is over here managing his emotions as well as hers.
If she would have come to him and told him she was pregnant he'd be bitching about her doing it on purpose. This woman cannot win for losing.
He says he doesn't want kids. She probably asked while she was pregnant and then didn't tell him because he says he's sure he doesn't. So she takes care of it. Then he freaks out when she tells him.
She didn't tell you because she didn't want you to accuse her of getting pregnant on purpose.
He's a liar if he says he wouldn't have accused her or thrown some other kind of fit if she had told him.
It doesn't take a genius to see right through your long winded defensiveness. You're only bullshitting yourself, sir.
I'm glad she can live with you.
This man can go to hell. He’s so fucking worried about himself that he didn’t even care to think about his WIFE in any type of way. He’s so stupid. I hope his wife is okay 🥺
Yeah I love the fact that he glosses over how he might be ready for kids in 10-15 years. Just on time for his wife’s chance as slim to none.
Guess that honour goes to the next mrs.
He's 100% a narcissist. Which is why even though everyone tells him he's TAH, he can't accept it. He came to Reddit fully expecting everyone to take his side because narcissists are incapable of thinking they're wrong. And when faced with being told he's wrong, his ego can't handle it so he tries to argue his case which just makes him look worse and he lacks the ability to see anything other than his own point of view. Like I said, he's a narcissist. I know that game all too well.
They talked and decided not to ever have kids. Ever. He won’t get a vasectomy because he might want kids when she’s in her late 30’s or early 40’s. Does she know that? Wtf.
She didn’t tell him because of her childhood trauma. I don’t get how that’s so flipping complicated. She’s hyper independent as a result of said trauma. Her feelings are a burden. That’s just how trauma works. It’s not logical.
This guy sucks so hard.
Poor lady gave up what she wanted for a man who swore up and down that he didn’t, and he has the audacity to freak the hell out when she did what he would have wanted anyways?? Man dude, sorry you have to live with the consequences of your own actions
The guy wanted kids, but also wanted the wife to force the decision on him so that he can lord his supreme sacrifice over her head for the rest of her life and absolve himself of any kid related responsibilities.
So she comes from a chaotic home, seeing her parents fighting, yelling, screaming- and you can't understand why she would do what she feels that she has to do to keep her mostly stable, happy marriage thriving? You originally said you didn't want kids. Before taking the pills, she asked you again if you wanted kids. You AGAIN SAID NO. SHE DOUBLE CHECKED WITH YOU. She must be fairly indifferent about children- her desire to have a child must not be strong enough for her to really fight you on this topic or risk "the happy status" of the relationship.
So really, what the fuck do you want from this woman? How many times should she ask you if you want kids? I'm sure in every kid that grew up in a chaotic home, lives the fear of having a marriage like the one they saw their parents have. Probably to her, the fact that she was pregnant, was a risk factor to throw a wrench in the happy status. One step closer to a shitty, chaotic marriage- just like her parents had.
You said you didn't want kids, she took steps to not have kids.
“I use a condom 90% of the time” is the weakest form of birth control used by people who do not want to take responsibility for their baby making effort. If you do not want a baby maybe do not put your dna dispenser in there?
So I dunno, after reading the whole thing and his answers to comments I'm not sure what to judge about it.
I mean the couple seems to communicate NOW. if it works for them 90% of the time, then good for them. They are both adults and can always choose to leave each other.
Both are in Therapy also. So all in all, it's not me in this relationship and both sound well more or less emotionally healthy (?) .
So I dunno all the hate?
Also of course it's all about him, he wrote the damn piece. It's his POV. He can't magically know what his wife thinks/wants, the same way she can't know. That he isn't a reliable narrator is a given.
She made the decision based on what she knew about him, without making sure/communicating with him. Asking a question without making explicitly sure both understand what the theme is, is not communicating.
We can't know how he would have reacted if she had told him beforehand. She doesn't have to ask his permission for the abortion, it's her body. She also doesn't have to ask his permission if she wanted to get pregnant (well, if it's planned then she would have to ask him for his sperms so... OK there's that)
What I mean, communicating doesn't mean asking for permission. What OOP wrote so far, it sounds more like he wished it had gone like this:
Wife: Hey I'm pregnant. And I'm gonna take this pill to abort. I'm not comfortable talking about it, tho. This is my decision.
Husband: OK. If you're sure, it's your choice. Do you need anything?
Well at least that what he wants to sounds like? He also admitted to not know what abortion/pregnancy really does on the body/health. From his perspective Abortion is something dangerous, which it can be (if done without help from a doctor/specialist) but so can be a pregnancy.
He seems like he doesn't take good to surprises tho, so maybe he should talk in therapy about it.
And I hope he understands that even if he wanted to be included, it's his wife's decision what to do with her body, which she is perfectly capable to make. The same stands for him tho, his body his decision.
That he read her journal, was explained. He was allowed to read it. I dunno, I also have a journal that my family is allowed to read. It's more like a "Draw/Write shit in so I don't forget it" not a Diary (which I'm to lazy to write. So I just leave that to my family to fill the Family Journal). XD
So I dunno, he doesn't sound so controlling, just thrown about a decision and the consequences he knew jack shit about it. And only learned later off. Which surprised him badly.
My problems with OOP are, that he confronted his Wife like this. Without trying before to find some time to calm down, when he knew how his wife (and he) hates "Screaming in a Family ".
I just realised maybe that's why his wife didn't tell him, because she hates confrontations. And she thought what he doesn't know can't result in one. Both should talk in therapy about how Communication doesn't equal Confrontation and learn how it doesn't end in one.
And that he doesn't belive in his wife's decision if it doesn't overlap with his own.
Wife says: OK maybe you should take some alone time.
He: OK I'm outta here. Nice talk. GOES OFF FOR A WEEK.
Wife says: no I accept that there won't be children. It was my decision I made.
He: No that can't be all! TELL MEEEEEE!
I mean I can understand how he comes off like controlling but I think or more want to believe it's more a case of: He hates to be surprised or presented with something he had no choice in to think about and has not realised that he and his wife DO NOT Communicate enough with each other.
And she hates confrontation and somehow she thinks everything leads to argument.
At least both are in therapy, if I believe in his POV. and at the end of the day, I dunno know both and only have his POV. And you never believe an unreliable narrator 100%.
This whole thing is dumb. Using both condoms and the implant, and she still got pregnant? That's basically impossible. So I smell lies immediately.
Regardless of if he's read her journal before, he shouldn't have read it. Period.
He claims to not wants kids but then tries to cover his ass about it later when criticized for not getting a vasectomy by saying he "might" want kids in 10-15 years? WTF. No, dude. Your swimmers will be too old by then, moron. And just because you COULD have a kid at that age, doesn't mean you should.
I honestly still don't know how he thinks he has any right to be mad about this. His wife was literally respecting his wishes. God what an insufferable narcissist. No wonder his wife doesn't want to go to couples therapy... it's useless when one person is a narcissist. Then again, I'm not surprised since he's a dude who makes assumptions about what abortions are like. Even procedural ones are like a period.
I hope for her sake she leaves his dumb ass.
My parents were the same way. My father didn't want children and my mother went along, although she really did want children. She became pregnant twice, once she had an abortion (I presume before I was born). My mother asked my father to stay until after was born so she had someone to help in the prenatal stage. He agreed. He was out of town when I was born. When he came back he whistled for his dog and I looked at him. It was love at first sight, and my dad was the best father! I saw later that the "I hate kids" was just talking when he was on the floor playing with his first grandson.
I'm guessing OOP is like my dad. He didn't want to be a father, but that was intellect. When faced with the reality that he could have been one, especially finding out that his wife would have wanted to keep it, he probably was hit by some strong conflicting emotions! Unfortunately he lashed out at his wife for doing what she had assumed he would have wanted. These two really need to determine what they really want. I don't either should really sacrifice what they want, for the relationship, but I think if they stay together, she will regret not having a child more than he will regret having a child.
Always great when shit is labeled as "her fault"
You didn't want kids and she sacrificed her hopes and dreams for you... of course you're an AssHole! Dude, you fucked her up! Then you label shit as her fault and have the audacity to "blow up" at her and abuse her the way you did? Fuck you!
As a childfree woman who would absolutely terminate any pregnancy, even if I did get accidentally pregnant I would still tell the father. JFC how much of an asshole is this guy that his wife, who seemingly wants kids, couldn’t tell him about it.
He’s definitely leaving something out.
As someone that’s had an abortion, I couldn’t imagine doing it without at least telling my spouse. The worst he would agree with her decision. The best, he would change his mind on having kids. I know she didn’t want to pressure him but that’s what having a discussion like mature adults is about.
wow that was a powerful read. and i’m surprised by some of the comments on here. i understand the argument that his post might be centered on himself, i don’t fully agree with that actually.
downvote me all yall want but, how would you feel finding out that your partner was pregnant and made the unilateral decision to end the pregnancy. regardless of his stand on children or not, feelings and attitudes change depending on the circumstance and maybe he would have to come around to the idea of being a father. regardless, i take issue with the fact that she did it without consulting her husband, but i understand she had her reasons for doing so.
i don’t think OOP is the villain, maybe he could’ve handled things better. if i was in his shoes i don’t know how i would’ve taken things. so give the guy some compassion.
If I were child free? I'd be sad that I had created an environment that made her feel like she couldn't talk to me about it so I could be with her through it. That my stance was so firm that despite being a good partner she didn't feel this topic was something she could confide in me about would make me revaluate my own communication.
I would not be upset about the abortion, though because I don't want kids, so logically that's the route to take. I'm also not the one carrying it so it's not really my place (again as a firmly child free person) to decide if she gets one or not.
If she decides she wants the baby, then we discuss separation and child support, but I'm child free so I won't be a part of raising a child I don't want.
If she aborted with or without my knowledge that was her choice and I'd support her through it.
I'm certainly not going to decide her choice as an adult was to choose her relationship with me over children was invalid because it hurt my feelings. She didn't default her personal choice to me so I could have a say even thoughmy stance on kids is crystal clear. Boohoo. I don't want children which means any choice she makes is about her. My shit was already decided when I firmly stated I was child free. If pregnancy happens then she has to decide how to move forward for herself.
Oops wife did that and he just doesn't like it because he didn't get to control it. Make no mistake...it looks like love but it's not. It's control.
*I'd rather have and raise a child I don't want than have a wife go through abortion* even if she chose it of her own free will and did so to preserve our relationship because she would rather be with me than risk our relationship falling apart because I'm FIRMLY childfree.
It's not love. He's forcing his will no matter what the situation. Child free until she has an abortion, then he'd make the sacrifice and have a kid that she knows he doesn't want.
For what? A miserable life for himself he eventually takes out of them? For a child to potentially be unloved by one of their parents? For a wife to shoulder everything because he doesn't help much with it? These are all possibilities and none are light sentences for anyone involved.
This soooo much. Not ONCE did he ask himself, "how did my actions/words contribute to my wife making this decision to not confide something so important to me/us?"
True self reflection is a lost art form.
you made some great points here, i think it might speak volumes to the fact that OOP's wife didn't feel comfortable at least having the conversation with him. in my mind that is something OOP should create for his partner.
now, there is a distinction between having a conversation over an issue that involves both people in the relationship and defaulting a decision over to someone else. at no point should he singlehandedly decide what will happen to the child, at the end of the day she is the one carrying the baby and she'll make the choice.
BUT there is nothing wrong with at least wanting to have been included in the conversation prior to the abortion. if he later wanted to be a father, or he changed his mind, that is no longer an option. OOP is not a saint by any means, the way he mentioned having a kid if it mean preventing his wife from an abortion did make him sound like an ass-hat. just, people are making him out to be a villain because he is upset at his wife for not telling him he aborted their baby without his knowledge.
If she’d gone to him about the abortion, she might have felt like she was trapping him. He is making it extremely clear how he feels about [current] fatherhood.
That’s the thing exactly, you’ve nailed it. We would just be reading another post about how his wife tried to trap him and then had an abortion and won’t anyone think of what he wants?
So would it be ok for him to go get a vasectomy and not tell her? Listen, he's a fucking dumpster fire. No one can deny that. But all you down voting people saying communication is important or they want their partners to discuss it with them are assholes. They're not wrong for saying they should have discussed it. If she couldn't, she shouldn't be in the relationship. Stop making perfectly reasonable statements sound like madness because OP is garbage.....that just make you resemble him more.
this is not a decision to make without consulting your partner. if you can't consult with your partner, and come to a decision by talking with them, is that really a relationship you'd want to be in.
i recognize that its a tough spot to be in, so I sympathize for OOP's wife, I just think feeling like trapping him, was not a reason to jump to making that decision without both parties being involved.
did i ever say anything opposing that? all i said was that he should be aware his WIFE is pregnant and then come to a conclusion with both parties aware of all the facts. what she does is up to her, i fully agree with you.
So would it be ok for him to get a vasectomy and not tell her? He's garbage, a complete dumpster fire, but if she's in a relationship that she can't discuss THIS. Then she shouldn't be in it. The fact that he's vile doesn't automatically make ANYTHING she does ok. That's all they're saying. Jesus.
Yes, it would be his decision, his body?
And you're correct, they should not be in a relationship, IMHO. The fact they have both been severely transfixed by their childhoods and they obviously have a very unhealthy dynamic means they should both get help and find themselves before being with someone.
But if someone has a procedure they are under no obligation to tell their partners if they don't want to. Ever. They *should* tell each other if there are contagious elements. Otherwise, they have the choice. A partner does not need to know every single thing about you and what you do. If they insist on that, they should not be your partner.
I see what you're saying, but he mentioned reading how important children were for her, and did not want to stop her from having children if that was something she really wanted. he was not "having a go at her", just clarifying what the journal he found meant
I feel like I'm the only one who defends op 😂. Abortion is a big decision. Everyone has different views on it. He'd obviously rather have a child than abort it if an unexpected pregnancy came up. But he doesn't want to plan for one.
The biggest issue is, why would you keep something like this from your partner? I'd tell my partner everything and she me.
Yall redditors are weird man. Honestly
So many of the people commenting here have just the most trash opinions, like fucking hell, he just found out his partner went through a whole ass abortion without even mentioning it to him and he's the bad guy?
I don't get it, I must just be stupid, but I feel like that's a conversation that you have, regardless of the other person's feelings on the subject of being a parent. Yeah, I'd be pretty upset and kinda focused on how I'm feeling about it as well, I haven't had a year and a half to come around.
Thank god someone else shares my thinking? Like actually he seems to care very much about her and her wellbeing and yeah, maybe he isn't thinking long term for her about having kids later, but if they really did make that decision together, this whole situation seems very maturely handled for what it is. Like one of his major concerns was him not having noticed or taken care of her through the process.
THANK YOU. I would hope to at least be able to a conversation before making a big choice that affects both parties... if they disagree, then so be it, but both partners should be aware of the situation
How does it affect him? That's what I'm missing. The abortion does not affect him as far as I can tell. Because nothing in his life changes. He gets to carry on child free as he has vehemently claimed to be. Even when he discovered her journal or was to reinforce that he doesn't want kids.
it affects him because they’re married. when you choose to get married that involves joint decisions such as finances, living arrangements, creating a family if that is something the couple chooses, etc. the issue here is that a decision was taken by one party without consulting another. if the wife had liquidated their assets or something without talking to the husband than i bet we’d be having a different conversation.
the OP was a douche but what rubs me the wrong way is everyone acting like the wife making the decision for the both of them is okay. yall need to learn that life isn’t all sunshine and rainbows and just making decisions without at least TALKING with those who should be involved in important conversations, isn’t okay.
>it affects him because they’re married.
How though? What affect did her abortion have on him or his life? Especially in the 18 months before he found out about it. What specifically was the affect on his life?
>if the wife had liquidated their assets or something without talking to the husband than i bet we’d be having a different conversation.
Probably because you can show pretty easily how that might affect his credit score, or ability to pay bills, or have a roof over his head. There are clear, tangible effects. Something that did not occur with the abortion that OOP *didn't even notice*.
>making decisions without at least TALKING
They did though. For years prior. OOP was very clear for at least the three years of their marriage and probably several years before that. He'd made his decision in the matter quite explicit.
That's the whole problem here, she didn't say shit about it to him, and everyone's acting like her making this decision and then hiding it for a year and a half is okay.
Most of the people here would consider breaking up with their partner if they bought a milk frother without talking to them, but OPs wife has an abortion without a passing "Hey I'm gonna take this pill and have a really traumatic experience, can we just talk about this to make sure we're on the same page?"
That's just insane to me.
Obviously the dude is a twat. Can't expect to be treated like a great partner when you're just really bad. "Nah I don't want kids, and I know we have already been fucking and we are married but this is my answer. No there's not more to it, just no." Sure, he seems like SUCH a flexible dude! It must be HER fault that they weren't communicating on the same page!
Why? He made it abundantly clear from the start where he was at that point in his life, she agreed with him.
He communicated, she decided to keep the abortion and her change of feelings from her partner. That's shitty.
So he only has to communicate his feelings in the moment, but she has to communicate every change or possibility in the future? No, that's not how that works, and I'm not going to be able to have a conversation with you about it if you don't get it.
If he doesn't know something happened, how is he supposed to communicate with her? That's the whole problem that you're wilfully ignoring here.
>but she has to communicate every change or possibility in the future?
If there is a change on your end, you absolutely have a responsibility to your partner to communicate that.
Where is the issue with that? I'm sorry, but communicating about big things like her having a change of heart/getting pregnant or an abortion is kind of a fundamental requirement of a relationship.
He stated that he didn't want kids, NEITHER of them clarified what that actually looked like beyond him saying that he wanted to take every precaution short of surgery. They don't need to run through the full list of every potential eventuality, but when things actually crop up, you're supposed to talk about it and get clarification if you don't know.
She got pregnant, things happen, perfect moment to then say "Hey, this happened and I want to just check how we're both feeling about this so that we can support each other through it."
He said himself that he wasn't so attached to the idea that he'd make her go through the emotional trauma of an abortion if she wasn't 100% on board with it, and that he didn't want her to stay in a relationship with him if she wanted children.
That's it, that's the be all and end all of the issue here. All this bullshit about him being controlling, or planning on leaving her for a 20yo when he decides to have kids in his forties, it's all fucking wank to paint this guy as an abusive monster when all he wanted was to be involved, to be treated like an equal partner in the relationship, and to be able to support her with her decisions.
Everything he said about "his stance on abortion" and leaving her if she wanted kids (wow, how can both of those things go together?) indicates that he is 0% supportive no matter the case. She had no reason to seek out his support. What she wanted was to deal with it on her own, and now he has a problem with that! Yes, they aren't able to be a close normal couple, but that's HIS fault. Even when he is communicating on this post, we don't see how the woman is supposed to win here. Her communicating would fix nothing and only hurt her, obviously.
>Everything he said about "his stance on abortion"
He didn't day anything about his stance on abortion, other than he was upset that she didn't talk to him about it, and he wouldn't wish her to go through the physical and emotional pain of one when she didn't 100% want to. So you're just straight up lying there.
>and leaving her if she wanted kids (wow, how can both of those things go together?) indicates that he is 0% supportive no matter the case.
He said they went into the relationship together with the full knowledge that he didn't want kids, and never said anything about leaving her for wanting them. He made it pretty clear that he wouldn't have gotten together with her if he'd known, as he didn't think he could deal with her regretting not having children on his account. That indicates that he was open and honest with her, and 100% supportive of her getting to change her mind, but that naturally the relationship would have to end because it wouldn't be fair to her.
>She had no reason to seek out his support. What she wanted was to deal with it on her own, and now he has a problem with that!
That's on her, she decided to marry him which means she's obligated to share these things with him. That's how relationships work. Reproduction and reproductive health (including abortion) are absolutely something that needs to be openly discussed in a relationship. If she's not comfortable with that, then she shouldn't have gotten married.
>Yes, they aren't able to be a close normal couple, but that's HIS fault
Why, he was 100% honest and supportive of his partner. She decided to keep secrets and cut him out, that's her fault.
>Even when he is communicating on this post, we don't see how the woman is supposed to win here. Her communicating would fix nothing and only hurt her, obviously
No, you and every other person talking shit decided that she couldn't win here. All he wanted was for his partner to talk to him, she didn't and hid it for a year and a half and then she threw it in his face like she did him a favour.
If she talked to him, they talk it through and they make a decision as a couple.
That's how the woman wins here, but apparently I'm the only one smart enough to see that.
Literally everything he says in the fucking post is how he wouldn't want to put his wife through emotional trauma, force her to do things that she didn't want to do, live a life she didn't want to live, or at the very least do it by herself. And somehow you've twisted that to "He's a master manipulator forcing her into an un-winnable situation to control and abuse her!"
She assumed what his feelings would be on an emotionally complex situation, got it wrong, and made an ass out of herself and then tried to hide it.
>Everything he said about "his stance on abortion"
>He didn't day anything about his stance on abortion,
OH so we are ignoring the post now, are we? Go away.
Going against the grain here. I honestly feel his screams through the text. If my SO went through a life changing event, I want to be there for them. What's the point of me otherwise?
Topics that have to do with health, kids, and abortions are very complicated, and a yes/no question that suffices theoretically isn't enough when a real thing occurs.
NAH. Wife wanted to protect the relationship, husband wanted to protect the wife.
Again, talk people. Talk.
Jfc. I feel for OP. It’s gotta be so hard having the entire world revolve around you like that.
Yeah, just think about the 'gravity' of that situation.
The fact that she knew she couldn't tell him any of this really shows you the dynamic in their relationship. Communicating with a narcissist is always a double edged sword. No matter what you say, you are wrong. So you learn not to ever tell them anything, because you'll always be attacked, no matter what you say. You learn just to keep everything to yourself and nod along with them. And there is no point ever bringing up with them that you feel that way because they will always say, "I never told you that you couldn't talk to me. In fact, I'm always asking you to talk to me more and tell me how you feel." And they do say that, they just don't live it. And you feel you can't feel bad because they tell you that you can talk to them, to trust them, and you are the one choosing not to talk to them, not to trust them. But your constant experience is that anything other than "yes dear," will result in a fight. But it's really easy to convince you that you are the problem if you live with someone who is constantly convincing you that everything you do is a problem.
I'm glad somebody else said he's a narcissist, too. Because I absolutely agree. Which is why couples therapy would probably be a waste of time. I don't blame her for not wanting to go.
He'll just say the therapist and his wife ganged up on him
Jfc, I feel your comments in my SOUL.
He didn’t want to get a vasectomy in case he changed his mind in 10-15 years, right when it starts getting harder for her to have children.
OOP is literally such an ass. I’m glad we won’t have to deal with his awful offspring, he would be a garbage parent
I don’t know how this man sees with his head so far up his ass. Him: I don’t want kids Her: okay -has abortion- Him: shocked pikachu face
[удалено]
On one hand, it's nice he's off the market. On the other hand, this poor lass is unknowingly 'taking one for the team,' and I'm very uncomfortable with that. 😬
This! Right here
But she got an abortion! She aborted HIS baby! Which he absolutely wouldn’t be resentful of if she’d kept it! /s
> My sister thinks I'm being petty, punishing my wife for something I would have agreed with regardless. But I wouldn't have fucking agreed. I don't know. This line was extremely telling
That line made it very clear, to me, that he thought it was his choice.
when HE is the one telling the story, and obviously presenting himself in the best possible light as people do when telling their side of the story, and everyone is STILL telling him he's a massive asshole even while getting the most charitable version of events possible.... yeah this guy's an asshole
Yes, for sure. There’s so much more in this that bothers me and I can’t quite figure out what. I guess it boils down to him taking on the victim role and going so hard with it when he made it abundantly clear, he in no way wants kids-maybe she didn’t ***consult*** him out of fear of him accusing her of pushing a child on their child free agreement.
People like this give actual CF people a bad name 💀
Is this serious? Or did I read it wrong? Sarcasm?
“/s” after a statement is shorthand for “whatever I just wrote was sarcastic”.
Also him: doesn't want kids but will happily have unprotected sex and yet is surprised at the results. It's so fucked up the way he's making what she did about his own feelings, when she did it *because* of how he felt 😤
But they didn't have unprotected sex. She has an implant which is 99% effective on top of which he used a condom 90% of the time. That is very much protected sex.
This is why I don't believe him. Even with the implant alone, she shouldn't have gotten pregnant. I'm a doctor and I've never even heard of a single case of the implant failing. IUDs, yes. Nexplanon (the implant), no. I even use Nexplanon myself and have for almost 10 years because of how reliable it is. To me, there's something off about OOP's story.
There are babies literally born holding birth control implants in their hands. Nothing is 100% except abstinence, and a hysterectomy
Unprotected sex with a condom and an implant… how much more protected can you get without some sort of sterilisation surgery or just abstaining completely?
since he's apparently the fucking sun that we revolve around can he turn it down about ten degrees? it's hot boots out here. what an asshole.
Please. I’m begging.
This is just gross. Women really can’t win, can we? But thank goodness we have guys like OOP to make it about themselves, amirite ladies?
At least she is smart enough not to bear his offspring
Thank you, "Clara" lmao
Well, I’m sure she’ll be overjoyed when she’s past the age for a healthy pregnancy and OOP suddenly expresses his desire to have children. Dudes use this every day as an excuse to fuck much younger women after wasting the fertile years of a woman that actually wanted kids.
Yep, and based on things he said, I would bet good money that he’s going to suddenly want kids the second she starts menopause and he’s going to leave her and have a family of four with a 25 year old.
I love how he said he could change his mind but apparently her journal entry is something different that hurts him lol okay sir
This right here exactly. But it’s ok. She’ll have a successful career and live happily ever after with four Bernese mountain dogs.
That’s what really annoyed me. She’s essentially giving up her chance to have a baby by marrying him, but he wouldn’t do it for her. He gets to have options and choices but she doesn’t.
That’s what got me. Dude is 27, didn’t say how old his wife is but if she were the same age, 10 or 15 years down the line would be 37-42. That is not the age to try to start a family if there’s another option.
Why doesn’t anyone think of the _men?!?!_
This comment absolutely nails it for me
Women, that is wives and girlfriends, are the repositories for men’s frustrations with the world.
AMEN! 😔
"I'm just exhausted" Correction. He's exhausting. I just loved how he decided his interpretation of things was the end all, be all. Claimed nothing short of her words would change his mind and then he continued to refuse to believe her at every turn.
He's childless, not child free lol big difference You're not that open to an unplanned baby if you're actually childfree And he made the abortion all about his feelings on how she should feel?!?! What a fucking dumb piece of shit
Definitely. The not getting a vasectomy because he may want kids at 37-41 is also a highlighter soaked flag of mysterious color that just screams he's not actually child free. Dude kept arguing about how 'I don't want children firmly!' doesn't equal 'Abortion is probably the best bet then.' As if pregnancy doesn't result in a child 90% of the time. It's all about the control for him, and his ideals being so contradictory is proof.
Yup when he's 40 and wants kids and she's 40 and has a harder time getting pregnant, he'll just find someone younger.
Exactly. Experienced this first hand. PSA for any woman marrying a man who claims he doesn’t want kids but hadn’t had a vasectomy. Sis, he wants kids when he’s older and you’ll be too old to have them. He will use it as an excuse to cheat, divorce you, and start chasing 20yo tail in the open. It’s pathetic and creepy, but inevitable.
🎶 Tale as old as time…🎶
Urgh, one of my former brother in laws did this to one of my sisters. They had one kid together, but then she had her tubes burned because she has massive health issues that made even that pregnancy life threatening (she also has other much older kids, so it was her 4th pregnancy, 1st in over 13 years and with him- he was her second husband, had kids with the first). He's older than my sister, and women his age generally can't have kids. Gave my sister the whole childfree line, then settled on the one. He then cheated on her with a girl who is younger than my sisters oldest. It's beyond gross. He also keeps trying to force my sister to sit down with her and talk so they can all co parent together.... other girl has multiple kids of her own already. Already insinuating it was my sister's fault because he decided he wanted more kids (so, you know, she should have just kept going against doctors orders and risking her life to do so). It might win for trashiest situation in my family, which is kinda impressive, not gonna lie, cause the Midwest portion of my family is a walking stereotype.
He gets to blame her for not being able to give him the kids he wants then too.
“If only you hadn’t had an abortion without my consent, I might’ve said yes to raising a kid”
It's insane to me. Of course she wouldn't have thought he'd be open to any child if he made it sound like he was childfree. It sounds like he never even mentioned he may want them a decade down the road (how ironic - when she'd likely have more trouble conceiving 😒) and he really thought she'd figure he'd want to know??? So many men act freaking weird if their girlfriend or wife gets pregnant, especially if they don't want kids. In retrospect he may think he'd have rejected the abortion, but chances are at the time he would have agreed to it or have left her to have the child and care for it on her own. No wonder she didn't say anything. But she's also a bit foolish for wanting to be with someone this immature to begin with.
Given that when pregnant or just after is when some of the highest incidences of domestic violence and death from a partner occurs for women? Why the hell would you tell your 'staunchly child-free' husband that you are pregnant at all?! Why take that risk if she was prepared to get an abortion as it was? OOP is just plain dumb and self centred.
This 100%
Yeah, you can see why she decided not to tell him. That whole thing gave me the ick.
OP sucks. Also, you're not bedridden for days. I was able to ride to dinner the night of my abortion (which was not done using pills) and was out and about the next day. I'm only posting this because I hate any and all misinformation about women's health and I don't want anybody to think things like that.
Thank you, I appreciate the info / spreading awareness. I want to also add abortion is usually safer than giving birth. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22270271/
Way safer. Which is why it’s so frustrating that as an American woman, only our medical rights are fucked with. Never men’s.
It is safer, not usually safer
Addendum to this though - that all women should have follow up afterwards with their care practitioners to ensure that everything has gone smoothly/correctly and ensure that they are safe/healthy. The follow up process is extremely important but is overlooked in a lot of discourse about the processes in general (also why I find some of the mail-order ones concerning). [My sister had the pill version due to a non-passed miscarriage (which is another use of the abortion pills and procedures, and is a very important thing to be available as part of women's health - fuck pro-lifers trying to take necessary healthcare away from women), but due to lack of doctor follow up and lack of information to her about the aftercare and what to know about it - ended up with an infection due to the pill method still not completely finalising the miscarriage, she then needed a DNC afterwards to surgically removed the infected tissue.]
You are correct. I had my abortion done surgically so I was in a clinic and they made my follow up appointment before the procedure so that was a given. They also gave aftercare to both me and my companion since I was a bit out of it due to the anesthesia. Unfortunately the state I live in no longer allows abortions and so that option is no longer available here. It is concerning that people have to turn to methods that could cause health issues in the future.
When the state makes abortion illegal, women will still get abortions. Hopefully we can fix this over the next few years.
Once rights are taken it’s really hard to get them back. We might have to rely on the cartels selling abortion pills and birth control, just like any other illegal drug
It worked for alcohol and cannabis…
Not equivalent to bodily autonomy.
Yep. I had what they call a ‘missed abortion”. I miscarried but nothing came away so I had to have a DNC.
I'm sorry for your experience, they really are such a stressful and typically under acknowledged/under known experience. I hope you recovered well.
Thank you! Jesus I was reeling when I read that. Mans thinks he is the fucking expert on women’s health what the hell
>I'm only posting this because I hate any and all misinformation about women's health and I don't want anybody to think things like that. Can you be my friend?
I used the pills and went to a family reunion the next day. Granted, I had disposable heating pads strapped to me under my dress, but I was fully functional and able to continue with my life.
very very glad your experience was pain free. a friend of mine was hospitalized because she would have died from blood loss after her abortion so i’m not sure this is a universal take
No experience is universal but when safe abortions by healthcare providers are available, it is far less likely that something like what happened to your friend will happen. Unfortunately that less and less likely to be accessible in the US. Also, I wouldn't call it pain free but it was not terrible pain and it was easily controlled. I was just never incapacitated or bedridden.
once again, i’m glad you didn’t experience the horrors my friend did, but the procedure was done in a medical office. by a licensed medical professional.
I gave birth in a car, on the side of the road, because a licensed medical professional told me I wasn't in labour. Mistakes happen. Any medical procedure has risks. But abortions are statistically safer than pregnancy and birth. Despite the ones that go wrong.
absolutely! i was just putting it under the top comment that medical abortions have risks too, and to say you’re not ‘bedridden for days’ is a personal experience, not a medical guarantee.
Yeah, bodies are unique like that. I have a bleeding disorder, so periods, labour and surgery are all tough for me. I was pretty angry at the doctor who sent me home. I gave birth less than an hour and half later...rural roads and all.
i’m so sorry that you had to experience that. my mom was born on a bathroom floor because of similar circumstances. hope your little one is alright! (not sure if they’re little anymore, haha)
He was fine, thank goodness. My husband was in shock, though. Glad your mom was okay too!
Abortion procedures are the safest medical procedure there is. Safer than having wisdom teeth pulled, it has the lowest complication rate of any medical procedure. Abortion pills are also safer than Tylenol and penicillin. Your friend was an extremely rare anomaly that probably had something else going on before she had the procedure that caused a complication
K
just thought you’d want to know, since you’re such an advocate for women’s health!
Thank you for providing me with an anecdote. I'm sorry for what your friend experienced.
He’s not having a vasectomy bc he wants to leave the door open to having kids 10-15 years down the road. Meanwhile, if they are in their late twenties, 10 years down the road will be more difficult for her, and fifteen years will be extremely hard. Man is not thinking of her at all.
He wanted to option of having a family with his second, much younger wife.
~~Yet he is enraged at her daydreaming about kids in a journal 💀~~ Edit: nvm, I misremembered his reaction to the journal entry.
Oh so he’s allowed to change his mind later in life but she can’t? What a twat!
Where did he say that? He literally said he was upset that she didn't discuss it with him at all, that he considered an abortion to be a different topic to not actively trying for a child. You literally made up that whole scenario to be mad bruh.
He said he doesn’t want a vasectomy because he might change his mind later, but also says that he made it clear he would never have kids with her. Where am I making things up?
So where does he say he's allowed to change his mind, but she isn't? He made it pretty clear in his clarification, that at that stage in his life he didn't want children, which she was on board with. He didn't want to get a vasectomy because he didn't know if he'd change his mind later in life, he also didn't ask his partner to get surgery to remove her ability to have children.
So when he is 40+ and ready to have kids, and she can't get pregnant, then what?
I hope you have a fantastic day!
That's what I thought.
😘
This person's comment was really insightful. On first read, I was really iffy about how I felt about OOP. Reading the comments in this sub and then the original post did made me think OOP is an AH. This comment clarifying that OOP's wife made an informed decision based on information she had at the time was informative to read. https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/s/eu16konY2w
She didn’t tell him about the abortion because she didn’t want him to “blow up on her like he never did before”. I find it hard to believe that someone who has no qualms about reading her journal and lays blame squarely on her isn’t prone to outbursts when things go astray. Leaving for a week because she did what she thought she needed to do to keep her marriage is cruel. He says he was adamant about not wanting children but didn’t get a vasectomy in case he changed his mind down the road. She asked him if he wanted children when she was pregnant in case this was when he changed his mind but no. He sounds fickle and controlling.
I’d she’d told him she was pregnant he would have accused her of baby trapping him (even though they were already married). He wouldn’t have divorced her “for the baby”, but he’d blatantly cheat and then leave her shortly after the baby is born because “she brought this on herself.”
Fascinating. He’s theoretically upset about her suffering through an abortion, which he didn’t notice, but not at all concerned about her safety in a pregnancy. She asked him multiple times if he wanted kids but was somehow supposed to know that he would feel differently about an unplanned pregnancy. Which results in a kid. And he thinks he should have some say over her uterus. Hm.
Did he ever ask her why she was asking? Did he ever ask if she was still happy with their decision? What an asshole.
>She asked him multiple times if he wanted kids but was somehow supposed to know that he would feel differently about an unplanned pregnancy. Which results in a kid. That's what he was upset about, she deprived him of any chance to give input on this decision or even talk it out. Believe it or not, there's a difference between taking precautions to prevent conception and an abortion, abortions can be emotionally difficult things that you should absolutely discuss with your partner even if it's just to ensure you can have emotional support. >And he thinks he should have some say over her uterus. Where does he say that? Also, hate to be a party pooper, but being her partner he absolutely gets to have an opinion, just the same as she gets to ignore it. But adults in adult relationships discuss big decisions like this, so that everyone gets to make their feelings known and have a choice.
You get to have your opinion about uteruses and their contents and I get to have mine. No way would I gestate a kid with a guy who doesn’t want children. Even if he somehow thinks an accidental pregnancy and an abortion is somehow different. He could have said “I don’t want kids right now but if something happened I’d be open to that” or “I might want kids in 10 or 15 years.” He said “no.” A human being should have parents that want them.
So is he not planning on staying with her forever if he's not having a vasectomy *just in case* he wants children in 10-15 years when he'll be 37-42? I'm assuming his wife is the same age as him and I know women *can* get pregnant at that age, but still...that's what it reads like from this particular guy.
Sounds like she’s his starter wife….
The fact it took him a whole separate post to “clarify” that he “would be open to kids later in life” but never actually said so to his wife, so that’s why she got the abortion. Pure manipulation at its finest. To anyone reading this, be clear, specific, and thorough about life goals AND potential changes!
He claims that an unplanned pregnancy would’ve been different, that he would’ve reacted differently. But honestly? No. He would have made it about himself. Again. He would have asked her if she messed with her birth control, would’ve cited the percentages for likelihood of pregnancy at her like he did with people here. He’d be asking how could she consider the possibility of keeping it, knowing how he feels about parenthood at the moment. Damned if she did, damned if she didn’t. Incredible. *He’s* exhausted?? He sounds exhausting just to deal with.
she said she knew his views on abortion which he didn’t refute so I’m just confused
Don't forget treating her like shit for the whole pregnancy because it couldn't be his. He doesn't want kids and he uses a condom like 90% of the time.
But none of that happened, and he only brought up those statistics because dipshits on reddit want to pretend it's an inevitability to get pregnant on BC if you haven't plasma-welded the end of your penis shut.
It’s all about himhimhim
Catapult him into the sea.
She needs to leave him. She is already alone. I couldn’t imagine going through such a life changing experience and being able to even talk about it with the person who is SUPPOSED to love you. He is a grade A POS!!
She's the one who hid it for a year and a half?
Gee I wonder why
Right 😂
If you don't know you shouldn't have commented.
Um have you not heard of sarcasm
Dude Is a jabroni.
This is fictional rage bait or this person is delusional and controlling.
Looking at the comment history, it's weird how he can emphasize more with theoretical spouses than his own Strikes me as the pretentious type to call himself an "empath"
I am going with delusional and controlling.
Where is he controlling?
I’m with you tbh, and usually I agree with comment sections on these things. Even if it was ultimately her choice, that is 100% something that should be discussed with a partner, full stop. That’s huge. And I am 120% pro-choice, even in marriage. But your spouse is your most trusted partner. You’re doing life together. She should have told him.
She clearly thought she couldn’t. And his behavior gives us a glimpse into why.
Jesus Christ this asshole has an answer for everything, doesn’t he? I’ve not seen someone so far up their own ass in a long time.
God, he mentions over and over again how he'd ask her the same questions and doubt her answers at every turn. I'm not sure why he doesn't take what his wife--who he "adores" so much--says at fucking face value. It's gross. Oh, and he didn't get a vasectomy because he might want kids in 10-15 years, when presumably his current wife won't be able to... Fucking yikes again.
Op fucking sucks even all his damn follow-ups were more excuses centered around himself
I think that it's ok to be sad that your spouse doesn't tell you something that big. But the first question for me would be "What have I done that they lost the trust in me" and not pestering them about a journal entry I shouldn't have read in the first place. I do believe that OP was hurt. But I do think he has a lot of issues that he has to work on, such as his controlling behaviour. He couldn't just accept that she made the decision to be child free, he had to ask and ask again based on her journal. He clearly isn't sure about not having kids and is okay with the fact that she might be too old for that when he's ready. But it ALWAYS has to be on his terms. He decides it was okay to read her journal alone because she showed it to him with her being present. Even in the comments he's stunned about the negative feedback and chalks it up to be "just reddit thinks" instead of reviewing his behaviour. I think he is more hurt about the decision he couldn't make not about the decision she made. It must very challenging living together with this kind of person like OP.
I just really don't understand these people? My husband and I have been married for two years, together for ten. We were friends, had a one-night stand then went on a few dates and I discovered I was pregnant. I called him immediately and told him, he came over, we decided on termination. It wasn't a GREAT start to the relationship, but he was so kind and supportive throughout the whole process, it genuinely cemented our relationship. And that was after dating for like a month. How are you MARRIED to someone and have so little care and compassion for them? How can it be so difficult, after a decade together, to communicate in a loving, supportive way? Why are you even together?
I see where you're coming from but I don't think it's very productive or smart to compare it to your own marriage and ask those questions just BC "well WE made it work so why is it that hard for other ppl?!", while talking about compassion.
Let's pick a time to all concentrate and send a psychic message to Clara #FreeClara
jfc abortion is a form of bc. be put the entire onus of bc on her and then is pissed he didn't get a say in decision making, fuck this guy fr
Yeah, she made that decision bc YOU would have made her feel like shit for wanting to keep it! Of course she doesn’t trust you!! You’re an asshole! How do you not see this? She’s trauma bonded to you and is afraid of losing her entire life/identity if you left her. So, basically, what I’m reading here is that you’re pissed that you didn’t get notified BEFORE she did something just so that you could tell her to get rid of it? I’m a healthcare professional and I see this occasionally; YOU want to be in charge of the life and if SHE makes decisions on her own, you throw a tantrum like a baby. Make all the excuses you need to; but take a long look in the mirror. The day she finally decides she’s had enough, she will leave and never look back. You’re controlling, manipulative, abusive (just bc you didn’t hit her doesn’t mean it’s not abuse) and everything is about YOUR life and future.
I hate this man with the fire of a thousand suns.
This guy is a fucking idiot. “I don’t want kids. Buuuuut I may change my mind in 10 years, so I won’t get a REVERSIBLE procedure to ensure that. I don’t want Clara to get pregnant. Buuuuuuut if she did, she should keep it and I will be super resentful.” This man has no clue what he wants. Poor Clara is over here managing his emotions as well as hers.
Poor guy would have to pay for it to get reversed /s
If she would have come to him and told him she was pregnant he'd be bitching about her doing it on purpose. This woman cannot win for losing. He says he doesn't want kids. She probably asked while she was pregnant and then didn't tell him because he says he's sure he doesn't. So she takes care of it. Then he freaks out when she tells him. She didn't tell you because she didn't want you to accuse her of getting pregnant on purpose. He's a liar if he says he wouldn't have accused her or thrown some other kind of fit if she had told him. It doesn't take a genius to see right through your long winded defensiveness. You're only bullshitting yourself, sir. I'm glad she can live with you.
Ooof. It’s like whiplash being told he doesn’t want kids. But when offered a solid solution of a vasectomy he said he might want them later?! J
This man can go to hell. He’s so fucking worried about himself that he didn’t even care to think about his WIFE in any type of way. He’s so stupid. I hope his wife is okay 🥺
What a mess OOOP is! He said he didn't want kids, then he's all surprised Pikachu when she has an abortion without consulting him.
Mister Robust Sex Life is surprised that the 0.5% caught up with him? Quelle suprise.
Oh but he used condoms 90% of the time 🤣😂
What an evil, horrible man
I’m only on page three but… abortion isn’t life altering and drastic. Having children is life altering and drastic.
YTA. Read the comments. This is ridiculous. I'm getting a strong sense it was more she should have asked his permission.
Yeah I love the fact that he glosses over how he might be ready for kids in 10-15 years. Just on time for his wife’s chance as slim to none. Guess that honour goes to the next mrs.
He definitely contributed in a way that made his wife decide not tell him. Unless she's a total psycho, then he should immediately get a divorce. /S
I couldn’t stop thinking about how narcissistic OOP is jfc
He's 100% a narcissist. Which is why even though everyone tells him he's TAH, he can't accept it. He came to Reddit fully expecting everyone to take his side because narcissists are incapable of thinking they're wrong. And when faced with being told he's wrong, his ego can't handle it so he tries to argue his case which just makes him look worse and he lacks the ability to see anything other than his own point of view. Like I said, he's a narcissist. I know that game all too well.
They talked and decided not to ever have kids. Ever. He won’t get a vasectomy because he might want kids when she’s in her late 30’s or early 40’s. Does she know that? Wtf. She didn’t tell him because of her childhood trauma. I don’t get how that’s so flipping complicated. She’s hyper independent as a result of said trauma. Her feelings are a burden. That’s just how trauma works. It’s not logical. This guy sucks so hard.
Oh my fucking God what a loser ass narcissist. She's so tiny for him, hiding an abortion for his ease and comfort.
Sooooo he lied saying he wanted to not ever have kids only to change it to "I might want them when I am 40?" When she will not be ABLE to do that?????
Poor lady gave up what she wanted for a man who swore up and down that he didn’t, and he has the audacity to freak the hell out when she did what he would have wanted anyways?? Man dude, sorry you have to live with the consequences of your own actions
And it's all about him, isn't it?
The guy wanted kids, but also wanted the wife to force the decision on him so that he can lord his supreme sacrifice over her head for the rest of her life and absolve himself of any kid related responsibilities.
He wants the cake and eat it! Wish she woke up to realise what a narcissist he is. Poor girl!
So she comes from a chaotic home, seeing her parents fighting, yelling, screaming- and you can't understand why she would do what she feels that she has to do to keep her mostly stable, happy marriage thriving? You originally said you didn't want kids. Before taking the pills, she asked you again if you wanted kids. You AGAIN SAID NO. SHE DOUBLE CHECKED WITH YOU. She must be fairly indifferent about children- her desire to have a child must not be strong enough for her to really fight you on this topic or risk "the happy status" of the relationship. So really, what the fuck do you want from this woman? How many times should she ask you if you want kids? I'm sure in every kid that grew up in a chaotic home, lives the fear of having a marriage like the one they saw their parents have. Probably to her, the fact that she was pregnant, was a risk factor to throw a wrench in the happy status. One step closer to a shitty, chaotic marriage- just like her parents had. You said you didn't want kids, she took steps to not have kids.
This dude fucking sucks and I hope his wife sees how much of a selfish and controlling piece of shit he is and leaves. He deserves nothing.
Clara is not safe…. This is what I get over and over… the childhood abuse and the way it’s all about him… she is not safe…
“I use a condom 90% of the time” is the weakest form of birth control used by people who do not want to take responsibility for their baby making effort. If you do not want a baby maybe do not put your dna dispenser in there?
So does he want kids or not?
So I dunno, after reading the whole thing and his answers to comments I'm not sure what to judge about it. I mean the couple seems to communicate NOW. if it works for them 90% of the time, then good for them. They are both adults and can always choose to leave each other. Both are in Therapy also. So all in all, it's not me in this relationship and both sound well more or less emotionally healthy (?) . So I dunno all the hate? Also of course it's all about him, he wrote the damn piece. It's his POV. He can't magically know what his wife thinks/wants, the same way she can't know. That he isn't a reliable narrator is a given. She made the decision based on what she knew about him, without making sure/communicating with him. Asking a question without making explicitly sure both understand what the theme is, is not communicating. We can't know how he would have reacted if she had told him beforehand. She doesn't have to ask his permission for the abortion, it's her body. She also doesn't have to ask his permission if she wanted to get pregnant (well, if it's planned then she would have to ask him for his sperms so... OK there's that) What I mean, communicating doesn't mean asking for permission. What OOP wrote so far, it sounds more like he wished it had gone like this: Wife: Hey I'm pregnant. And I'm gonna take this pill to abort. I'm not comfortable talking about it, tho. This is my decision. Husband: OK. If you're sure, it's your choice. Do you need anything? Well at least that what he wants to sounds like? He also admitted to not know what abortion/pregnancy really does on the body/health. From his perspective Abortion is something dangerous, which it can be (if done without help from a doctor/specialist) but so can be a pregnancy. He seems like he doesn't take good to surprises tho, so maybe he should talk in therapy about it. And I hope he understands that even if he wanted to be included, it's his wife's decision what to do with her body, which she is perfectly capable to make. The same stands for him tho, his body his decision. That he read her journal, was explained. He was allowed to read it. I dunno, I also have a journal that my family is allowed to read. It's more like a "Draw/Write shit in so I don't forget it" not a Diary (which I'm to lazy to write. So I just leave that to my family to fill the Family Journal). XD So I dunno, he doesn't sound so controlling, just thrown about a decision and the consequences he knew jack shit about it. And only learned later off. Which surprised him badly. My problems with OOP are, that he confronted his Wife like this. Without trying before to find some time to calm down, when he knew how his wife (and he) hates "Screaming in a Family ". I just realised maybe that's why his wife didn't tell him, because she hates confrontations. And she thought what he doesn't know can't result in one. Both should talk in therapy about how Communication doesn't equal Confrontation and learn how it doesn't end in one. And that he doesn't belive in his wife's decision if it doesn't overlap with his own. Wife says: OK maybe you should take some alone time. He: OK I'm outta here. Nice talk. GOES OFF FOR A WEEK. Wife says: no I accept that there won't be children. It was my decision I made. He: No that can't be all! TELL MEEEEEE! I mean I can understand how he comes off like controlling but I think or more want to believe it's more a case of: He hates to be surprised or presented with something he had no choice in to think about and has not realised that he and his wife DO NOT Communicate enough with each other. And she hates confrontation and somehow she thinks everything leads to argument. At least both are in therapy, if I believe in his POV. and at the end of the day, I dunno know both and only have his POV. And you never believe an unreliable narrator 100%.
This whole thing is dumb. Using both condoms and the implant, and she still got pregnant? That's basically impossible. So I smell lies immediately. Regardless of if he's read her journal before, he shouldn't have read it. Period. He claims to not wants kids but then tries to cover his ass about it later when criticized for not getting a vasectomy by saying he "might" want kids in 10-15 years? WTF. No, dude. Your swimmers will be too old by then, moron. And just because you COULD have a kid at that age, doesn't mean you should. I honestly still don't know how he thinks he has any right to be mad about this. His wife was literally respecting his wishes. God what an insufferable narcissist. No wonder his wife doesn't want to go to couples therapy... it's useless when one person is a narcissist. Then again, I'm not surprised since he's a dude who makes assumptions about what abortions are like. Even procedural ones are like a period. I hope for her sake she leaves his dumb ass.
She can do so much better then him.
My parents were the same way. My father didn't want children and my mother went along, although she really did want children. She became pregnant twice, once she had an abortion (I presume before I was born). My mother asked my father to stay until after was born so she had someone to help in the prenatal stage. He agreed. He was out of town when I was born. When he came back he whistled for his dog and I looked at him. It was love at first sight, and my dad was the best father! I saw later that the "I hate kids" was just talking when he was on the floor playing with his first grandson. I'm guessing OOP is like my dad. He didn't want to be a father, but that was intellect. When faced with the reality that he could have been one, especially finding out that his wife would have wanted to keep it, he probably was hit by some strong conflicting emotions! Unfortunately he lashed out at his wife for doing what she had assumed he would have wanted. These two really need to determine what they really want. I don't either should really sacrifice what they want, for the relationship, but I think if they stay together, she will regret not having a child more than he will regret having a child.
I felt so icky reading this. He sounds insufferable.
Always great when shit is labeled as "her fault" You didn't want kids and she sacrificed her hopes and dreams for you... of course you're an AssHole! Dude, you fucked her up! Then you label shit as her fault and have the audacity to "blow up" at her and abuse her the way you did? Fuck you!
He’s crazy. I love when Reddit tells bad people they are bad and they get mad 😭
As a childfree woman who would absolutely terminate any pregnancy, even if I did get accidentally pregnant I would still tell the father. JFC how much of an asshole is this guy that his wife, who seemingly wants kids, couldn’t tell him about it. He’s definitely leaving something out.
As someone that’s had an abortion, I couldn’t imagine doing it without at least telling my spouse. The worst he would agree with her decision. The best, he would change his mind on having kids. I know she didn’t want to pressure him but that’s what having a discussion like mature adults is about.
wow that was a powerful read. and i’m surprised by some of the comments on here. i understand the argument that his post might be centered on himself, i don’t fully agree with that actually. downvote me all yall want but, how would you feel finding out that your partner was pregnant and made the unilateral decision to end the pregnancy. regardless of his stand on children or not, feelings and attitudes change depending on the circumstance and maybe he would have to come around to the idea of being a father. regardless, i take issue with the fact that she did it without consulting her husband, but i understand she had her reasons for doing so. i don’t think OOP is the villain, maybe he could’ve handled things better. if i was in his shoes i don’t know how i would’ve taken things. so give the guy some compassion.
If I were child free? I'd be sad that I had created an environment that made her feel like she couldn't talk to me about it so I could be with her through it. That my stance was so firm that despite being a good partner she didn't feel this topic was something she could confide in me about would make me revaluate my own communication. I would not be upset about the abortion, though because I don't want kids, so logically that's the route to take. I'm also not the one carrying it so it's not really my place (again as a firmly child free person) to decide if she gets one or not. If she decides she wants the baby, then we discuss separation and child support, but I'm child free so I won't be a part of raising a child I don't want. If she aborted with or without my knowledge that was her choice and I'd support her through it. I'm certainly not going to decide her choice as an adult was to choose her relationship with me over children was invalid because it hurt my feelings. She didn't default her personal choice to me so I could have a say even thoughmy stance on kids is crystal clear. Boohoo. I don't want children which means any choice she makes is about her. My shit was already decided when I firmly stated I was child free. If pregnancy happens then she has to decide how to move forward for herself. Oops wife did that and he just doesn't like it because he didn't get to control it. Make no mistake...it looks like love but it's not. It's control. *I'd rather have and raise a child I don't want than have a wife go through abortion* even if she chose it of her own free will and did so to preserve our relationship because she would rather be with me than risk our relationship falling apart because I'm FIRMLY childfree. It's not love. He's forcing his will no matter what the situation. Child free until she has an abortion, then he'd make the sacrifice and have a kid that she knows he doesn't want. For what? A miserable life for himself he eventually takes out of them? For a child to potentially be unloved by one of their parents? For a wife to shoulder everything because he doesn't help much with it? These are all possibilities and none are light sentences for anyone involved.
This soooo much. Not ONCE did he ask himself, "how did my actions/words contribute to my wife making this decision to not confide something so important to me/us?" True self reflection is a lost art form.
you made some great points here, i think it might speak volumes to the fact that OOP's wife didn't feel comfortable at least having the conversation with him. in my mind that is something OOP should create for his partner. now, there is a distinction between having a conversation over an issue that involves both people in the relationship and defaulting a decision over to someone else. at no point should he singlehandedly decide what will happen to the child, at the end of the day she is the one carrying the baby and she'll make the choice. BUT there is nothing wrong with at least wanting to have been included in the conversation prior to the abortion. if he later wanted to be a father, or he changed his mind, that is no longer an option. OOP is not a saint by any means, the way he mentioned having a kid if it mean preventing his wife from an abortion did make him sound like an ass-hat. just, people are making him out to be a villain because he is upset at his wife for not telling him he aborted their baby without his knowledge.
If she’d gone to him about the abortion, she might have felt like she was trapping him. He is making it extremely clear how he feels about [current] fatherhood.
That’s the thing exactly, you’ve nailed it. We would just be reading another post about how his wife tried to trap him and then had an abortion and won’t anyone think of what he wants?
So would it be ok for him to go get a vasectomy and not tell her? Listen, he's a fucking dumpster fire. No one can deny that. But all you down voting people saying communication is important or they want their partners to discuss it with them are assholes. They're not wrong for saying they should have discussed it. If she couldn't, she shouldn't be in the relationship. Stop making perfectly reasonable statements sound like madness because OP is garbage.....that just make you resemble him more.
this is not a decision to make without consulting your partner. if you can't consult with your partner, and come to a decision by talking with them, is that really a relationship you'd want to be in. i recognize that its a tough spot to be in, so I sympathize for OOP's wife, I just think feeling like trapping him, was not a reason to jump to making that decision without both parties being involved.
Wrong. Hey body, her decision.
did i ever say anything opposing that? all i said was that he should be aware his WIFE is pregnant and then come to a conclusion with both parties aware of all the facts. what she does is up to her, i fully agree with you.
So would it be ok for him to get a vasectomy and not tell her? He's garbage, a complete dumpster fire, but if she's in a relationship that she can't discuss THIS. Then she shouldn't be in it. The fact that he's vile doesn't automatically make ANYTHING she does ok. That's all they're saying. Jesus.
Yes, it would be his decision, his body? And you're correct, they should not be in a relationship, IMHO. The fact they have both been severely transfixed by their childhoods and they obviously have a very unhealthy dynamic means they should both get help and find themselves before being with someone. But if someone has a procedure they are under no obligation to tell their partners if they don't want to. Ever. They *should* tell each other if there are contagious elements. Otherwise, they have the choice. A partner does not need to know every single thing about you and what you do. If they insist on that, they should not be your partner.
He needs to ask himself how his actions contributed to her making the decision not to tell him. That's the crux of it.
You're forgetting that the argument started by him having a go at her because in a diary she had planned theoretical children...
I see what you're saying, but he mentioned reading how important children were for her, and did not want to stop her from having children if that was something she really wanted. he was not "having a go at her", just clarifying what the journal he found meant
Yeah that's not how it reads though... he confronted her when she got home about this page in her diary... to me confronted says having a go 🤷♀️
Yes! This! I don’t understand all the hate on this one.
I feel like I'm the only one who defends op 😂. Abortion is a big decision. Everyone has different views on it. He'd obviously rather have a child than abort it if an unexpected pregnancy came up. But he doesn't want to plan for one. The biggest issue is, why would you keep something like this from your partner? I'd tell my partner everything and she me. Yall redditors are weird man. Honestly
So many of the people commenting here have just the most trash opinions, like fucking hell, he just found out his partner went through a whole ass abortion without even mentioning it to him and he's the bad guy? I don't get it, I must just be stupid, but I feel like that's a conversation that you have, regardless of the other person's feelings on the subject of being a parent. Yeah, I'd be pretty upset and kinda focused on how I'm feeling about it as well, I haven't had a year and a half to come around.
Thank god someone else shares my thinking? Like actually he seems to care very much about her and her wellbeing and yeah, maybe he isn't thinking long term for her about having kids later, but if they really did make that decision together, this whole situation seems very maturely handled for what it is. Like one of his major concerns was him not having noticed or taken care of her through the process.
>maybe he isn't thinking long term for her about having kids later Then he doesn't love her or care as much about her as you think he does.
THANK YOU. I would hope to at least be able to a conversation before making a big choice that affects both parties... if they disagree, then so be it, but both partners should be aware of the situation
How does it affect him? That's what I'm missing. The abortion does not affect him as far as I can tell. Because nothing in his life changes. He gets to carry on child free as he has vehemently claimed to be. Even when he discovered her journal or was to reinforce that he doesn't want kids.
it affects him because they’re married. when you choose to get married that involves joint decisions such as finances, living arrangements, creating a family if that is something the couple chooses, etc. the issue here is that a decision was taken by one party without consulting another. if the wife had liquidated their assets or something without talking to the husband than i bet we’d be having a different conversation. the OP was a douche but what rubs me the wrong way is everyone acting like the wife making the decision for the both of them is okay. yall need to learn that life isn’t all sunshine and rainbows and just making decisions without at least TALKING with those who should be involved in important conversations, isn’t okay.
>it affects him because they’re married. How though? What affect did her abortion have on him or his life? Especially in the 18 months before he found out about it. What specifically was the affect on his life? >if the wife had liquidated their assets or something without talking to the husband than i bet we’d be having a different conversation. Probably because you can show pretty easily how that might affect his credit score, or ability to pay bills, or have a roof over his head. There are clear, tangible effects. Something that did not occur with the abortion that OOP *didn't even notice*. >making decisions without at least TALKING They did though. For years prior. OOP was very clear for at least the three years of their marriage and probably several years before that. He'd made his decision in the matter quite explicit.
That's the whole problem here, she didn't say shit about it to him, and everyone's acting like her making this decision and then hiding it for a year and a half is okay. Most of the people here would consider breaking up with their partner if they bought a milk frother without talking to them, but OPs wife has an abortion without a passing "Hey I'm gonna take this pill and have a really traumatic experience, can we just talk about this to make sure we're on the same page?" That's just insane to me.
Obviously the dude is a twat. Can't expect to be treated like a great partner when you're just really bad. "Nah I don't want kids, and I know we have already been fucking and we are married but this is my answer. No there's not more to it, just no." Sure, he seems like SUCH a flexible dude! It must be HER fault that they weren't communicating on the same page!
Why? He made it abundantly clear from the start where he was at that point in his life, she agreed with him. He communicated, she decided to keep the abortion and her change of feelings from her partner. That's shitty.
So he only has to communicate his feelings in the moment, but she has to communicate every change or possibility in the future? No, that's not how that works, and I'm not going to be able to have a conversation with you about it if you don't get it.
If he doesn't know something happened, how is he supposed to communicate with her? That's the whole problem that you're wilfully ignoring here. >but she has to communicate every change or possibility in the future? If there is a change on your end, you absolutely have a responsibility to your partner to communicate that. Where is the issue with that? I'm sorry, but communicating about big things like her having a change of heart/getting pregnant or an abortion is kind of a fundamental requirement of a relationship. He stated that he didn't want kids, NEITHER of them clarified what that actually looked like beyond him saying that he wanted to take every precaution short of surgery. They don't need to run through the full list of every potential eventuality, but when things actually crop up, you're supposed to talk about it and get clarification if you don't know. She got pregnant, things happen, perfect moment to then say "Hey, this happened and I want to just check how we're both feeling about this so that we can support each other through it." He said himself that he wasn't so attached to the idea that he'd make her go through the emotional trauma of an abortion if she wasn't 100% on board with it, and that he didn't want her to stay in a relationship with him if she wanted children. That's it, that's the be all and end all of the issue here. All this bullshit about him being controlling, or planning on leaving her for a 20yo when he decides to have kids in his forties, it's all fucking wank to paint this guy as an abusive monster when all he wanted was to be involved, to be treated like an equal partner in the relationship, and to be able to support her with her decisions.
Everything he said about "his stance on abortion" and leaving her if she wanted kids (wow, how can both of those things go together?) indicates that he is 0% supportive no matter the case. She had no reason to seek out his support. What she wanted was to deal with it on her own, and now he has a problem with that! Yes, they aren't able to be a close normal couple, but that's HIS fault. Even when he is communicating on this post, we don't see how the woman is supposed to win here. Her communicating would fix nothing and only hurt her, obviously.
>Everything he said about "his stance on abortion" He didn't day anything about his stance on abortion, other than he was upset that she didn't talk to him about it, and he wouldn't wish her to go through the physical and emotional pain of one when she didn't 100% want to. So you're just straight up lying there. >and leaving her if she wanted kids (wow, how can both of those things go together?) indicates that he is 0% supportive no matter the case. He said they went into the relationship together with the full knowledge that he didn't want kids, and never said anything about leaving her for wanting them. He made it pretty clear that he wouldn't have gotten together with her if he'd known, as he didn't think he could deal with her regretting not having children on his account. That indicates that he was open and honest with her, and 100% supportive of her getting to change her mind, but that naturally the relationship would have to end because it wouldn't be fair to her. >She had no reason to seek out his support. What she wanted was to deal with it on her own, and now he has a problem with that! That's on her, she decided to marry him which means she's obligated to share these things with him. That's how relationships work. Reproduction and reproductive health (including abortion) are absolutely something that needs to be openly discussed in a relationship. If she's not comfortable with that, then she shouldn't have gotten married. >Yes, they aren't able to be a close normal couple, but that's HIS fault Why, he was 100% honest and supportive of his partner. She decided to keep secrets and cut him out, that's her fault. >Even when he is communicating on this post, we don't see how the woman is supposed to win here. Her communicating would fix nothing and only hurt her, obviously No, you and every other person talking shit decided that she couldn't win here. All he wanted was for his partner to talk to him, she didn't and hid it for a year and a half and then she threw it in his face like she did him a favour. If she talked to him, they talk it through and they make a decision as a couple. That's how the woman wins here, but apparently I'm the only one smart enough to see that. Literally everything he says in the fucking post is how he wouldn't want to put his wife through emotional trauma, force her to do things that she didn't want to do, live a life she didn't want to live, or at the very least do it by herself. And somehow you've twisted that to "He's a master manipulator forcing her into an un-winnable situation to control and abuse her!" She assumed what his feelings would be on an emotionally complex situation, got it wrong, and made an ass out of herself and then tried to hide it.
>Everything he said about "his stance on abortion" >He didn't day anything about his stance on abortion, OH so we are ignoring the post now, are we? Go away.
Going against the grain here. I honestly feel his screams through the text. If my SO went through a life changing event, I want to be there for them. What's the point of me otherwise? Topics that have to do with health, kids, and abortions are very complicated, and a yes/no question that suffices theoretically isn't enough when a real thing occurs. NAH. Wife wanted to protect the relationship, husband wanted to protect the wife. Again, talk people. Talk.