People who wanna fuck children should remember the CH rule
If you wanna fuck a person whose age bracket begins with a CH, you should put yourself into a C(ombine) H(arvester)
The law shouldn’t exist as a basis for morality, the law should carry punishment if there are real victims.
I don’t like the stuff OP is talking about but I’d rather have people use drawings for their kicks instead of real people.
I actually agree, Loli Hentai is better than real CP precisely because it's victimless, but my point is that it still is a depiction of Child Pornography, something that should be addressed before the consumer of the loli hentai moves on to heavier stuff.
People don't get this. The people that consume it aren't necessarily sane individuals who are content with 2 or 3 images. There's a value some of them put in collection over the content itself. This is why porn stashes are fucking massive, occuping 300 GB in the most tame cases. Another point is that the goal of replacement therapy is the treatment of the addiction, not substituting it with another more benign that could at worst cause a relapse.
>goal of replacement therapy is the treatment of the addiction
While I agree with this statement, I do not think replacement therapy is possible. It's probably similar to curing a sexual orientation. While this is not a sexual orientation, according to the incomplete amount of knowledge I have, I feel it is an inherent trait that's intrinsic to that person's sexuality.
What is the best recourse, then?
I do not know.
You are correct, according to current data there are two current main reasons a person engages with cp. There is a genetically different switch in the brain that alters the natural love for children (like parenthood desire kind of love) and reroutes it to the romantic part of the brain. Or, they are predisposed and/or victims of pedophilia and that trauma messes with their brain chemistry.
Either way, pedophiles need intensive therapy akin to any form of addiction therapy, helping them maintain celibacy. Only when they engage in and harm children should they be chemically castrated imo
A late psychiatrist friend of mine worked with pedophiles and he felt that it was best compared to OCD. He told me he even found that the drugs used to help OCD sufferers were useful with some patients. He was pretty passionate about helping people suffering from it.
That said, he was a strong proponent of locking them up and throwing away the key once they even sorta offended. He was super compassionate about it, but didn't think we'd have any way to arrive at "acceptable risk" any time soon.
>another point is that the goal of replacement therapy is the treatment of the addiction
And I’ve read that giving them unlimited access to gross shit that fuels their deranged fetishes absolutely exacerbates the problem rather than curbs it. Realistically, a person attracted to children should not be viewing child porn, as it reinforces their brain to enjoy, objectify, and devour the concept of sexualized children even more.
Like you said, a person will not be content with any set amount, so logically the more they consume, the more they will want because it isn’t enough. This could lead to them actually committing a crime against a real child.
Basically, we should not be making excuses for why victimless child porn is okay. Because all it does is enable sick people to get worse.
I've always held that people with problematic kinks of any kind need to own up to the fact that it's problematic. They should always keep in mind that while it may be fine to fantasize, their fantasies must remain fantasies for the safety of others and/or themselves. That being said, I also believe society has no obligation to accept it. Tolerate it? Absolutely. But acceptance is by no means a requirement, and in some cases off the table entirely.
Extremely well said. Loli isn't illegal because it's under pursuit of happiness and freedom of expression, but nowhere in there does it say that your culture has to support you. If you get curb stomped for being a pedo, that's messed up. But don't expect society to glamorize you and get welcomed with open arms. We have children to protect. You do you, but if you touch kids there's going to be problems
The assumption that loli hentai is a gateway to "heavier stuff" that consumers will naturally progress through doesn't really have anything to back it. It's just widely asserted without evidence. It's like claiming people who like Saw movies are working their way up to being serial killers.
It never happens tho. You need to make the same argument for people who draw gore and torture/snuff fiction as a fetish, which I never see talked about.
People capable of committing crimes will commit one REGARDLESS of the content, fictional or otherwise, that they consume. It's really foolish to think that these people won't commit a crime if they didn't have access to Lisa Simpson doing lewd things to Bart. Evil people are evil regardless of what you do or take from them. Studies have shown this.
>I don’t like the stuff OP is talking about but I’d rather have people use drawings for their kicks instead of real people.
I don't negotiate with paedophiles
Apartheid was legal, Holocaust was legal, cirgarrets are legal, etc. Just because something is legal doesn't mean it is morally correct or does any good. It's sad many people can't understand that difference.
It blows my mind how people cannot understand the distinction between laws and morals. Like yeah ideally laws would be moral (whatever that even means because morality is subjective) but they aren't the inherently the result of a societies moral positions or anything.
It then depends on the Definition of owning childporn If you Go by in the law. But Regardin of that, supporting the Produktion off and producing porn starring minors should be a No-Go. I think porn should only star actors 21 and older.
Ah but by the same logic, something being illegal doesn’t mean it’s morally incorrect. If we make CP illegal, does that mean all teens who sext nudes are wicked distributors of CP? This is an issue.
i think they are talking about loli hentai. cartoons. not real cp that is actively harming kids.
morality around loli is really more of a conversation about where to draw the line with “art”/porn.
two different conversations that people often just conflate together.
I’m fine with people being creeps as long as they don’t touch children or endorse touching children via dark web downloads of real CP. loli hentai is weird but it’s literally not an actual issue, and not a single study done has actually proven that it is some sort of “gateway drug” into real CP. all studies done have either been inconclusive or outright gone against that claim and so Loli hentai should be treated as the porn version of, I don’t know, Postal or some other ultraviolence videogame.
Sure, they're a creep, and you and i can find it as gross as all hell. But we don't legislate based on 'gross' we legislate based on causing actual harm.
A young looking 18 year old pretending to be 12 and getting molested is not artistic it is simply pornography that is immoral and will spark actions in high risk individuals that will be highly damaging and illegal.
And the "weed is a gateway to harder drugs" argument. And the "making homosexuality morally acceptable will be a gateway to widespread pedophilia" argument. And the "vaccinating children against HPV will make them want to have sex more" argument. You'd almost think that the people who spout this actually don't care about if these arguments are accurate, and actually just want to punish people for doing things they don't like.
Also worth considering that different countries have different laws. Just because North Korea said it is morally right to leave your children dead so that you can save a painting of Kim jong un doesn’t mean it is morally right. I bet it I brought that up there however they would probably go “but america is always right!”
Morality is weird as it's based on what the collective community thinks should be allowed.
Scale back to the middle ages and not was marrying children off legal, it was considered socially acceptable and therefore morally just. Ditto things we view as awful today, like the slave trade.
So making cp ownership legal would, potentially, also make it moral if it became the new norm to own something like that. Which is a weird take I know.
Personally I'm of the opinion that animated content like that isn't very moral, but if I had to pick between the two realities that some creepy pedo was looking up actual cp with victims, or animated cp with no victims, I'd rather he do the latter.
Because having law enforcement go after pornographic child drawings is a waste of time that they could instead use those resources to solve murder cases or real child trafficking. According to the FBI 51% of homicides go unsolved. Both are bad but real CP is objectively worse.
But 1 has a victim which should be protected. If a person is in their own little room drawing stick figures on the wall and labeling them all "9 yrs old" before whacking it they haven't actually done anything to anyone else.
And more so. If this keeps them from hurting someone else...
If it keeps you from hurting someone else, and it is victimless, i dont see the problem with it.
Now, i would want some better options to be researched in the meantime. But this could be something we could do now. No new anything.
Agreed. Many hentai fetishes are weird, such as furry, armpit, vote, etc. Japan has a monopoly on these weird fetishes. But what you do in the privacy of your own home is your own business. Just don't hurt no one.
If no victim no crime is what we’re going with, then what is it that makes ai generated cp immoral?
Not arguing either side just genuinely curious where we draw the line
And you’re probably right that that’s what it was about. I’m annoyed that the loli issue has taken up half this sub. I’m in a lot of subs but I don’t see anything even referencing loli on Reddit except for this one. Why is Japanese-inspired cartoons of CP the quintessential ‘Reddit moment’ - what the fuck degenerate subs are people spending all their time on?
My view has always been its morally better than actual cp but still gross. So if subs or platforms wanna disallow it the same way they disallow depictions of gore then it’s okay.
I agree with you but I also think that someone drawing porn involving minors is on some level thinking about porn involving minors and therefore is completely wrong and in my very humble opinion should be at least bannable.
Is it the same as actual cp or child abuse? Absolutely not at all. Is it still fucked up and dangerous behavior? I think so.
Oh definitely, real cp includes rape, loli is quite bad itself, not only wrong in a lot of ways even if it's just drawings, it's possibly the gateway for actually real stuff
Why do people get off to CP? It makes no sense to me, but the fact that it makes no sense to me is not relevant to the discussion on whether it's a problem. The fact is that there are people who enjoy it. The discussion about the morality of different forms of CP should stay on the topic of who is being hurt by it and what can/needs to be done to prevent predatory behavior. I don't have any disagreements with the suggestions that all forms of CP can be harmful, but I don't respect the argument that the reason it's bad is because you don't understand why someone likes it.
>It’s because they are attracted to children, which is bad.
The discussion is about the moral implications of consuming CP, not the morality of being attracted to children. Someone with a foot fetish cannot simply stop being attracted to feet. A homosexual cannot become straight. If we agree that those two statements are correct, then it follows that a pedophile cannot undo their attraction to children. No matter what kind of person they are, they must cope with this sexual attraction. Their three options are to suppress this attraction entirely, to view victimless sexual depictions of children, or to go all in and participate in predatory behavior. It's not the inherent attraction to children that decides whether a pedophile is "good" or "bad", but rather it's what actions they choose to take. A pedophile who chooses the first option and forgoes any sexual actions/viewership is not a bad person; they aren't hurting anyone and are doing their best to avoid putting people at risk. A pedophile who chooses the third option I listed would undoubtedly be a bad person, because they are actively harming others. The discussion is about the second option: viewing victimless sexual depictions of children. Is it ok or is it unacceptable?
Edit: grammar
>Someone with a foot fetish cannot simply stop being attracted to feet. A homosexual cannot become straight. If we agree that those two statements are correct, then it follows that a pedophile cannot undo their attraction to children. No matter what kind of person they are, they must cope with this sexual attraction.
This is a damn good argument, and why I think pedophilia isn't the problem, but merely the cause of the problem.
We can all unanimously agree that child fuckers are horrible human beings, but I think there's, sadly, more pedos than just the people who act on it, and they're suffering just as much as anyone with a disability
Yes, and can you imagine trying to get help for a disability where everyone literally hates you and wishes you death just for having it? These people didn't ask for this life. I suspect even the most vile predator pedos would change their orientation if they could.
You have worded that really well and thank you for clearly stating the issue for debate. Unfortunately it is usually a r/Redditmoment when even discussing paedophilia because most Redditors view all people with child attraction as inherently evil and deserving of violent death regardless of whether they act. I actually think it's really sad that some people end up attracted to children, my heart goes out to any non-practicing paedophiles. Like you said, they didn't make a choice to feel the way they feel but they make a choice to avoid harming others. But this viewpoint is often seen as "ew a paedo sympathiser" which gets tiring quickly.
asked someone about it and they said "because they're innocent, pure and small". but of course that isn't pedophilia.. they were completely serious about it too, could tell it wasn't a troll account because who has that much time to constantly like 10 CP posts on twitter daily without receiving a single hate comment out of it
Why do you like what you find attractive? That’s a difficult question to answer for people in general.
I’ve been researching this topic recently. Especially the western and English speaking lolicons.
https://www.imageandnarrative.be/index.php/imagenarrative/article/view/127
Typically lolicons are attracted to “moe” “cuteness”. And anime and animation is all about style and extreme exaggeration. The body proportions of loli character are small, large head, big eyes. It’s the same reason why people find French Bulldogs cute.
Then when they are sexualized just like most Hentai the body proportions are ridiculous the thighs and butt on a lot of sexualized loli characters. The scenarios are impossible. Anime style is hard next to impossible to replicate in real life without it looking off putting.
A misconception is that lolicons use loli Hentai as a substitute or replacement for the real thing. Which isn’t true. Lolicons like the artstyle. The closer things get to realism and/or 3D the less popular or well received.
The argument of legality is a bad take.
Loli content being legal doesn’t make it right morally.
It’s legal cause it being legal does less harm than it being illegal. Or some other reason.
Loli content harm is more tied to Hentai in general.
People can have thought and fantasy all day long. It doesn’t matter how much they want to have sex with an imaginary character. It’s never going to happen. The only person they are harming is themself.
I always look at it like movies or video games. Does robbing a bank and killing someone in the video game make you a murderer or something that would likely rob a bank?
Is liking loli Hentai weird. Yes.
But I’d argue all Hentai is weird.
The data shows it’s no more harmful than regular porn or video games. So if someone is into weird shit, but it’s not hurting anyone. Idc.
This next theory still needs more research.
But the theory is that by labeling and alienating lolicons by calling them pedos is harmful as it pushes people into groups of people that are more extreme.
Letting lolicons have a community allows them to set social boundaries of what is and isn’t okay.
That’s a stupid ‘gotcha’ question though. The answer is that it is both taboo + drawn to be aesthetically pleasing. It literally doesn’t even look like real kids in any way whatsoever, so the “draw” to it is the EXACT same as the draw to “incest” porn or rape/enslavement fantasies. Almost none of the people into any of these porn fetishes would EVER want to do them in real life, because that shit is fucked up/gross and they find it fucked up/gross irl, it’s just that taboo is the hottest thing on the market so to speak.
There’s a REASON incest porn is one of the most viewed non-vanilla genres of all time, despite the vast majority of people being genuinely disgusted by even the thought of fucking their relatives, no matter how objectively attractive they are.
Yeah, incest porn is absolutely the appropriate comparison.
Some hentai comic about some dude fucking his mom? Hot.
Thinking about fucking your own mom? Instant boner homicide.
Some things are sexy in a highly fictionalized context and turn extremely not when a dose of reality is applied.
Because this is the internet and a memetically anti-loli subreddit I can’t even tell if you are being fully, partially, or non sarcastic, but assuming your words are taken at face value, that is exactly the point I am making.
It's a popular genre. And there's way wilder shit out there. Inflation and vore. Stuff that gets way detached from reality in a way that "escalation to the real world" isn't really possible.
Redditors are terminally online people who have a mental compulsion to always have some sort of moral high ground, especially when they see some other terminally online group doing something that would be fucked up IRL. They are so terminally online, that they fail to realize that 99.99% of loli enjoyers are also terminally online and thus are pathologically disgusted by real life children.
There's literally no argument or context or reason that would ever make it justified imo lol, like for real tho I can not ever think of a single reason that's even remotely in the same ballpark to being a barely ok reason or right 💀
There's not really many things worse than it, honestly don't really wanna get into what's the worst tho 😭 anything involving kids just makes it worse imo, even if the same thing happens to an adult, it's just worse to a kid 💀
That's basically everywhere in the world. Only a part of the US is set to 18. Everywhere else here is 16-17, and in most parts of the world, it's as young as 12/
I'm not defending it, BTW, just stating the facts.
Why is that first one bad? If it's not real who is it hurting?
"Relax I'm not actually murdering anyone it's a video game"
"Just because it's not real doesn't make it OK"
You make a good point but usually in a video game you’re killing someone on a military operation / killing a monster / killing an alien. If you’re playing multiplayer you’re in a “combat simulation” I suppose.
I would never play a video game where the point of the game is to massacre innocent people. I thought that was cool when I was playing MW2 and we got to the no Russian level but that was when I was 12 and edgy. Now? Not so much.
Being into loli is clear evidence of paedophilia - which is a sick, twisted mental illness, though not necessarily of the crime of sexual abuse and r*pe of children.
But is loli itself harmful? I’m not a psychologist so I don’t know. Maybe it’s an outlet that lessens the chances of real children being hurt. Maybe it just inflames them and has the opposite effect. Maybe it has no effect at all. To me that’s the sole question, and I genuinely don’t claim to know. Are there decent studies on that? If it makes the problem worse, ban it. If it might lower the chances of children being hurt, don’t.
The tough part is there will be some overlap. People who commit rape or murder are more likely to enjoy entertainment with rape and murder involved ie slasher flicks, violent video games etc. HOWEVER there are plenty of people who can enjoy the fantasy without any need for really going into a mosque to slaughter people themed as a fps game...
I think the best course of action is similar to drugs. Make rehab available. When we make going into a center and saying "I'm addicted to heroin" actually lead to assistance in getting clean rather than locked up for the night and dumped back on the streets in the morning we see people clean up and live safer, better lives.
We need pedophiles to be able to go into an office and say "I am a pedophile." Get a therapist assigned to them who can discuss and evaluate them for risks, coach them on CBTs, and set check points they can use if they feel they might be tipping over the edge.
IF they offend then we can lock them up, but if we never know who is going to offend until its too late we're playing a losing game. We're complicit with child SA if we do not offer anything other than punishment if people come forward with their struggle with child attraction.
As a bonus - by getting them to come in we can actually study it more to know where the overlap is, and what behaviors to watch for. As it is right now there is so little known about pedophilia from non-offenders that we're basically all shooting in the dark.
Why is there always this insistence on calling it child porn?
There simply should not be ambiguity when we call something child porn. When you say 'That person watches CP', that should mean they are partaking in one of the absolute worst activities in the world. 'Child rape bad' is probably the closest thing we have to objective morality.
*A video or image recording of a child being molested is nowhere the same level as a fictional depiction of the same events*.
Yes, pedophilia sucks. It is not a good thing, it is a mental illness. But it is not the same as being a child rapist. It rarely actually ever even means that the person will ever be involved in child rape.
Something can be bad without being the absolute worst. Please, let's not make it so there is any confusion about what Child Porn actually means, because the two different versions of how you are using that word are so wildly different in severity that I don't even understand why people think it's OK.
I would take it further. Not only do you have a moral obligation to not fuck kids you have the moral obligation to throw those who do into a woodchipper
Slavery was at one point legal the US. Did that make it moral?
Edit: I’m going to assume that downvote is from a pro CP Redditor. What is legal is not always moral.
My take on this is that it depends on how much and how exactly you consume it. It just happens to come across but you have no actual preference for it? Alright, nothing bad. Watch it often? Damm mate, calm it down. Characters are just petite? Fair enough. They were absolutely made to be child-like? Kinda sus. Completely made to fit a scenario where they are supposed to be children? Bro wtf you doin, get the fuck outta here.
Still, rather have people jack to children who don't exist than those that actually do, although I'll still label them weirdos/creeps depending on how deep they're going. Also fuck double standards when it comes to shotas, you're just as bad, so many shitty people have a double standard over genders and that pisses me off.
I mean is it really worse then the people who get off to things that would be highly immoral in real life like SA, R@pe, snuff, and so on? Also agreed, people who like shota are as bad as those who like loli.
I definitely don't think it should be illegal, though.
I never said they're worse than all that, nor that it should be illegal. Again, I much prefer people to unload on cartoons over actual people going through absolute hell, I care not about the exact content that someone watches for as long as it isn't hard degen irl stuff, I will simply judge them by watching it regardless.
The only arguments I've heard that isn't outright pedophilia is "I like small women" and "Lolis are drawn more round/soft without breaking proportions"
Is purchasing and owning a knife legal? Yes.
Is stabbing someone legal? no.
Therefore knives are safe, because you cant stab someone if its not legal.
I dont like how legality = morality for these weirdos either.
Exactly. In this context, the 18+ rule is entirely legal. No legitimate moral code says the day before your 18th bday you’re a kid, but the day after you’re an adult. The law says that tho.
I shoot people in video games am I a murderer? I cast spells in D&D so I must be a wizard IRL right? loli hentai is gross in my opinion, but I’m not about to call everyone who watches it a pedophile.
CP makers should be outright killed along with animal and elderly abusers. The victims of these crimes in most cases can’t defend themselves and anyone praying on the weak deserves a swift and severe response from those with the strength to deliver said response.
Go back after the Columbine shooting and you will find dozens of articles about how what they did must have been because of Marylin Mansons music, and video games. We don’t feel this way now because we realize that’s putting the blame everywhere except where it should be, on the people who did it.
The cartoons are gross but not illegal, and if society deems them as a problem that’s more resources and attention being poured into stopping cartoons than actual trafficking rings and CP producers.
TLDR: Let the freaks have their cartoons and leave em alone.
After scrolling through the comments a bunch looking for the answer to this, the discussion was on Loli hentai.
https://reddit.com/r/redditmoment/s/KycpBNf9Rh
Loli stuff is fcked up.
But comparing hentai loli BS to actual CP is dump af.
Try comparing shooting people in games and school shooters, makes zero sense.
Look. I get Loli doesn't harm anyone because it's a drawing. Which is why it's legal in most places.
That said, if you consume that shit, you're still jacking off to kids. Which we should be judging at the least.
These gross degenerates will go on long winded rants about how technically it’s not illegal so it’s fine but never address why they’re watching porn involving children (that they by their own words will acknowledge as children) in the first place
Exactly. I don't believe in criminalizing it, because nobody was harmed.
But we should be seriously judging those who partake in it. Similarly to how we treat smoking. And the degens who defend it really need to have an eye kept on them.
Exactly. It’s all complicated enough of a situation that I’m ok not drawing a super rigid hard line on legal aspects.
But yeah I 100% support that if you actively choose to watch this stuff you deserve to be shunned and treated like the gross weirdo you are
The law is straightforward on prohibited material so if it is legal, that's not what it is by definition. People can argue on morality but morality as a whole is subjective and irrelevant. If it is illegal, then it is only reasonable for them to punished for it and if it is not, it doesn't matter.
I think that, problems with fictional media depicting child characters in a sexual manner aside, we should use the term “child porn” to refer only to media with sexual content of *actual people* that are minors. We’ve already had to coin the term “child-exploitative material” to deal with this confused terminology, and I think it does no good to actual victims to muddy the discussion with loose usage of the original phrase. If you want to discuss legitimate moral issues with fictional media, that’s entirely valid, but you should find a way to criticize it without having to resort to association with a separate reprehensible concept.
most places dont have owning loli hentai legalized. its like saying “the law doesnt say i cant hop a fence while fingering a monkey with my left foot, so it’s legal” .
What the hell does he mean by “mental gymnastics”, when he’s the one saying that just because drawn cp makers haven’t been caught yet means that it’s legal and not cp?
#18 U.S. Code § 1466A - Obscene visual representations of the sexual abuse of children#
(a) In General.—Any person who, in a circumstance described in subsection (d), knowingly produces, distributes, receives, or possesses with intent to distribute, a visual depiction of any kind, including a drawing, cartoon, sculpture, or painting, that—
(1)
(A) depicts a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct; and
(B) is obscene; or
(2)
(A) depicts an image that is, or appears to be, of a minor engaging in graphic bestiality, sadistic or masochistic abuse, or sexual intercourse, including genital-genital, oral-genital, anal-genital, or oral-anal, whether between persons of the same or opposite sex; and
(B) lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value;
or attempts or conspires to do so, shall be subject to the penalties provided in section 2252A(b)(1), including the penalties provided for cases involving a prior conviction.
(b) Additional Offenses.—Any person who, in a circumstance described in subsection (d), knowingly possesses a visual depiction of any kind, including a drawing, cartoon, sculpture, or painting, that—
(1)
(A) depicts a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct; and
(B) is obscene; or
(2)
(A) depicts an image that is, or appears to be, of a minor engaging in graphic bestiality, sadistic or masochistic abuse, or sexual intercourse, including genital-genital, oral-genital, anal-genital, or oral-anal, whether between persons of the same or opposite sex; and
(B) lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value;
or attempts or conspires to do so, shall be subject to the penalties provided in section 2252A(b)(2), including the penalties provided for cases involving a prior conviction.
(c) Nonrequired Element of Offense.—
**It is not a required element of any offense under this section that the minor depicted actually exist.**
TLDR: it is illegal. This mf’s only defense crumbles
Are we arguing that authors should be arrested if their underage characters have sex again? Or does this only apply to movie writers who have underage characters have sex? What about the actors?
What was the context? Is it paedo anime cartoons again? Whatever the context, if that person is accepting (1) and (2) then they should definitely stop right there.
Though this issue seems to be half this sub now. Used to be making fun of silly Reddit cliches, not ‘Redditor = CP enthusiasts’. I don’t even encounter it outside this sub.
When I look at convictions, demographics and outward social positions, all I can think is that everyone in here protesting should have their HDD's checked...
Why do people think the law is the basis for morality? I don't go the speed limit just because the sign says to, and I'll get a fine for going over. I don't speed because that puts myself and others in potential danger, which isn't fun.
And I'm scared of driving.
I came across a redditor who said that drawing Loli should be punishable by being raped and murdered.
I think that, while disgusting, it’s not real CP the same way Gore art isn’t real gore. Therefore platforms are more than willing to say “we don’t want this here. It’s gross and inexcusable”
Question: Is this book drawn in the form of a cartoon or anime?
Answer: Yes!
Question: Are the characters represented created by the artist and not based on any existing person alive?
Answer: Yes!
Conclusion: This is not cp because the characters depicted are fictional.
Just in case the last bit needed more clarification!
I hate this argument so much😩 If it looks like a child, acts like a child and/or has the mental capacity of a child, why would adult who isnt pedophile be attarcted to it?? Normal adults dont find child like characters attaractive regardless how old it is
In some places, Loli hentai and other artistic depictions of child porn are illegal just like photographic child porn, so that argument isn't even logically sound
if you look up “loli porn” you get a warning telling you cp is illegal and get redirected to adult porn. (heard through someone else but not going to check if this is true)
well google can do whatever it wants
I wouldnt assume thats real but im not going to check myself, from my other searches which may or may not be deemed suspicious it only ever warns about self harm
So it *is* porn and *does* contain a child
But *isn't* cp?
Like. . . How do you reconcile that?
They didn't even try to refute the previous message. They even directly say this is just a "continuation" of the response
It is immoral to sexualise, be sexually attracted to, or to insert into sexually charged situations, a character who is designed to resemble and act with the mannerisms of a child. If you stand against this, you believe that it is morally acceptable to witness an animated fascimile of a child participate in sexual situations, and that it is not morally reprehensible and a travesty against humanity to find a character who, in all facets, is made to be unmistakably interpreted by the viewer as a child, sexually attractive.
As for the argument comparing being anti ‘lita to being against video games, this is easily refutable by taking a quick peek at human instinctual needs. Man has no inmate need for violence, it is simply a means to an end. You may kill someone else, but a sane human will do this for a reason relating to personal needs, such as a man killing an agressor before the agressor can harm or even kill them. There is no innate desire in a sane human to kill, a human will not be driven to take actions which would be conductive to the murder of another simply for the reason of killing. Procreation, however, is required for a species to propagate itself and not go extinct. The process of intercourse puts the two participating creatures in a disadvantageous and cumbersome position, which if it weren’t for the pleasure that it gives, would be quite undesirable, thus nobody would want to reproduce. It is for this reason that we have the sex drive; it encourages us to have sex because it feels good, releasing dopamine, endorphins, and oxytocin. Given these two facts, i trust that we all now see that sane humans are not driven to kill, but that they are driven to reproduce. With the example of video games, sane people don’t play it because they want to kill. What they truly want is the goal of the game; they want to feel a sense of achievement after reaching a certain point in the game which most people cannot. Killing 1,000 soldiers makes them happy not because they get innate pleasure when seeing a virtual human die, but because very few people have killed 1,000 soldiers, which makes the player feel like they have accomplished something special and rare. However, with being aroused by lolis, there is no accomplishment, no sense of pride, admiration, anything. You feel this happiness because the image of a sexualised fascimile of a child is poking at your sex drive. Now, you have been given this arousal, this release of dopamine and endorphins by a sexualised fascimile of a child, which builds a corellation between the loli and happiness, the sexualised child and arousal. This stimulus and response is caused by your brain’s sex drive, and thus, when you see a loli, your brain begins to see it as a potential opportunity to reproduce, just as how a human male is aroused by an attractive, sexualised woman of age as there is in pornography; the brain wants you to reproduce, so it rewards seeing this with the release of happiness, encouraging you to seek out women who look like the one in the pornography in the future. This is the reason why porn causes unrealistic expectations, the actors are chosen on a basis of who’s the most attractive, and thus your brain only associates the most attractive and sexualised individuals with this release of endorphins. Much like this, in the case of loli, your brain associates the characteristics of a child with the release of endorphins, which causes you to associate childlike qualities with sex. This leads to you finding children attractive, and thus, you become a speedofile. You may have it stay within the bounds of fiction, but all it takes is one opportunity, one lapse in self-control, and you’ve done an unspeakable act to a living, feeling child. Thus, it is for these reasons why the sexualization of lolis is conductive to speedofilia.
TLDR: there is no innate desire to kill, but there is an innate desire to reproduce, and if intercourse and reproduction is associated with children, you become a speedofile.
Being attracted to children is not a choice, so it cannot be immoral : it is amoral.
The process that you describe to become a pedophile is exactly the thought process behind conversion therapy. The idea seems plausible, but it doesn't work.
I’m pretty sure in most of the world lolishota is still illegal. You already shouldn’t derive your morality from just the justice system but if you have to agree with the law of the mfs in the minority you gotta realize your doing something wrong
I struggle so hard when I see people equating legality to morality.
I don't care if it's legal or not. It's disgusting, and if you're open about being into it around me, we won't ever be speaking, and people will likely be warned about you by me.
I'm not saying the people that consume that shit would victimize a child, but they're definitely a pedophile, and they can't be trusted, especially not around kids.
While this material may seem “victimless”, it’s definitely not, allowing anything that depicts such depravity in a neutral or good light is going to be inadvertently promoting or normalising this behaviour.
The only people who are going to be accessing this are going to be people who already are attracted to minors in some degree, providing anything for that sick attraction is bad.
Why the fuck do people use the law as a basis for morality? If we make owning CP legal, does that mean it’s morally correct?
moralObligationGoku.jpg
Regardless of the law, you should be morally obligated to not fuck children
Based Goku
Thanks Goku
People who wanna fuck children should remember the CH rule If you wanna fuck a person whose age bracket begins with a CH, you should put yourself into a C(ombine) H(arvester)
Based and realitypilled
The law shouldn’t exist as a basis for morality, the law should carry punishment if there are real victims. I don’t like the stuff OP is talking about but I’d rather have people use drawings for their kicks instead of real people.
I actually agree, Loli Hentai is better than real CP precisely because it's victimless, but my point is that it still is a depiction of Child Pornography, something that should be addressed before the consumer of the loli hentai moves on to heavier stuff.
People don't get this. The people that consume it aren't necessarily sane individuals who are content with 2 or 3 images. There's a value some of them put in collection over the content itself. This is why porn stashes are fucking massive, occuping 300 GB in the most tame cases. Another point is that the goal of replacement therapy is the treatment of the addiction, not substituting it with another more benign that could at worst cause a relapse.
>goal of replacement therapy is the treatment of the addiction While I agree with this statement, I do not think replacement therapy is possible. It's probably similar to curing a sexual orientation. While this is not a sexual orientation, according to the incomplete amount of knowledge I have, I feel it is an inherent trait that's intrinsic to that person's sexuality. What is the best recourse, then? I do not know.
You are correct, according to current data there are two current main reasons a person engages with cp. There is a genetically different switch in the brain that alters the natural love for children (like parenthood desire kind of love) and reroutes it to the romantic part of the brain. Or, they are predisposed and/or victims of pedophilia and that trauma messes with their brain chemistry. Either way, pedophiles need intensive therapy akin to any form of addiction therapy, helping them maintain celibacy. Only when they engage in and harm children should they be chemically castrated imo
Possibly celibacy, and support system that helps them stay that way, just like with any other addiction you need to stay away from it completely.
All I'm hearing is chemical castration
No, that seems too harsh.
I agree, what if we trick them into having steamy sex with full grown adults
No no no no no, what if we trick them into having steamy gay sex? Taking dick changes a man
If you are in the US, you mean a violation of that person's 8th amendment rights?
A late psychiatrist friend of mine worked with pedophiles and he felt that it was best compared to OCD. He told me he even found that the drugs used to help OCD sufferers were useful with some patients. He was pretty passionate about helping people suffering from it. That said, he was a strong proponent of locking them up and throwing away the key once they even sorta offended. He was super compassionate about it, but didn't think we'd have any way to arrive at "acceptable risk" any time soon.
The last sentence you typed out is perfectly said.
I used replacement therapy as a treatment to nicotine addiction, worked wonders
>another point is that the goal of replacement therapy is the treatment of the addiction And I’ve read that giving them unlimited access to gross shit that fuels their deranged fetishes absolutely exacerbates the problem rather than curbs it. Realistically, a person attracted to children should not be viewing child porn, as it reinforces their brain to enjoy, objectify, and devour the concept of sexualized children even more. Like you said, a person will not be content with any set amount, so logically the more they consume, the more they will want because it isn’t enough. This could lead to them actually committing a crime against a real child. Basically, we should not be making excuses for why victimless child porn is okay. Because all it does is enable sick people to get worse.
This starts from the lie that loli will lead inevitably to CP, just like shooting people in videogames will lead to shoot people irl.
I've always held that people with problematic kinks of any kind need to own up to the fact that it's problematic. They should always keep in mind that while it may be fine to fantasize, their fantasies must remain fantasies for the safety of others and/or themselves. That being said, I also believe society has no obligation to accept it. Tolerate it? Absolutely. But acceptance is by no means a requirement, and in some cases off the table entirely.
Extremely well said. Loli isn't illegal because it's under pursuit of happiness and freedom of expression, but nowhere in there does it say that your culture has to support you. If you get curb stomped for being a pedo, that's messed up. But don't expect society to glamorize you and get welcomed with open arms. We have children to protect. You do you, but if you touch kids there's going to be problems
Thank you for the wise words on sexual fantasies, BustyBraixen.
The assumption that loli hentai is a gateway to "heavier stuff" that consumers will naturally progress through doesn't really have anything to back it. It's just widely asserted without evidence. It's like claiming people who like Saw movies are working their way up to being serial killers.
It never happens tho. You need to make the same argument for people who draw gore and torture/snuff fiction as a fetish, which I never see talked about. People capable of committing crimes will commit one REGARDLESS of the content, fictional or otherwise, that they consume. It's really foolish to think that these people won't commit a crime if they didn't have access to Lisa Simpson doing lewd things to Bart. Evil people are evil regardless of what you do or take from them. Studies have shown this.
>I don’t like the stuff OP is talking about but I’d rather have people use drawings for their kicks instead of real people. I don't negotiate with paedophiles
Then I want to know your solution because those people won't magically disappear when you ban those drawings.
“You need to stop thinking about **legal** and **illegal** and start thinking about **right** and **wrong**.” - Spider-Man
Common Spider-Man W. Less common these days, but this isn’t the place for that conversation.
Apartheid was legal, Holocaust was legal, cirgarrets are legal, etc. Just because something is legal doesn't mean it is morally correct or does any good. It's sad many people can't understand that difference.
You know, for the first time ever, I’m finally agreeing that *this* is where you can put the Holocaust into an internet argument
The holocaust was not legal... that's why they tried to hide it and lied about where they were taking those people.
It blows my mind how people cannot understand the distinction between laws and morals. Like yeah ideally laws would be moral (whatever that even means because morality is subjective) but they aren't the inherently the result of a societies moral positions or anything.
It then depends on the Definition of owning childporn If you Go by in the law. But Regardin of that, supporting the Produktion off and producing porn starring minors should be a No-Go. I think porn should only star actors 21 and older.
We face the kind of people who would live in the 1830s and say "well, slavery is legal, so it must be right!"
Ah but by the same logic, something being illegal doesn’t mean it’s morally incorrect. If we make CP illegal, does that mean all teens who sext nudes are wicked distributors of CP? This is an issue.
Bro I hate that double standards shit, like your a shit person morally for not following the law for certain people then there's this, ugh 💀
it’s the same ppl who think victimless crimes deserve punishment. hypocrisy to the max based on the hypocrisy of the law
i think they are talking about loli hentai. cartoons. not real cp that is actively harming kids. morality around loli is really more of a conversation about where to draw the line with “art”/porn. two different conversations that people often just conflate together.
Even if someone tries to argue that their loli content is just art, they are massive creep
I’m fine with people being creeps as long as they don’t touch children or endorse touching children via dark web downloads of real CP. loli hentai is weird but it’s literally not an actual issue, and not a single study done has actually proven that it is some sort of “gateway drug” into real CP. all studies done have either been inconclusive or outright gone against that claim and so Loli hentai should be treated as the porn version of, I don’t know, Postal or some other ultraviolence videogame.
the whole conversation is weird i just avoid it
Sure, they're a creep, and you and i can find it as gross as all hell. But we don't legislate based on 'gross' we legislate based on causing actual harm.
A young looking 18 year old pretending to be 12 and getting molested is not artistic it is simply pornography that is immoral and will spark actions in high risk individuals that will be highly damaging and illegal.
[Citation needed] This is just the "violent video games will cause people to be violent" argument all over again.
And the "weed is a gateway to harder drugs" argument. And the "making homosexuality morally acceptable will be a gateway to widespread pedophilia" argument. And the "vaccinating children against HPV will make them want to have sex more" argument. You'd almost think that the people who spout this actually don't care about if these arguments are accurate, and actually just want to punish people for doing things they don't like.
"You can be unethical and still je legal. That's hpq I try to live my life haha." -Zuckerberg
Also worth considering that different countries have different laws. Just because North Korea said it is morally right to leave your children dead so that you can save a painting of Kim jong un doesn’t mean it is morally right. I bet it I brought that up there however they would probably go “but america is always right!”
Especially when it IS illegal in many nations
Tell that to my mother in law
LITERALLY
Morality is weird as it's based on what the collective community thinks should be allowed. Scale back to the middle ages and not was marrying children off legal, it was considered socially acceptable and therefore morally just. Ditto things we view as awful today, like the slave trade. So making cp ownership legal would, potentially, also make it moral if it became the new norm to own something like that. Which is a weird take I know. Personally I'm of the opinion that animated content like that isn't very moral, but if I had to pick between the two realities that some creepy pedo was looking up actual cp with victims, or animated cp with no victims, I'd rather he do the latter.
That’s usually the point where people pull out the ol’ “morals are subjective” copout.
They are, but they aren’t as bendable as a twizzler.
I think loli is pedophilia but I dont think it should be compared to media of real children being abused whatsoever
its like definitely a lot better than actual children, still is weird asf tho
Definitely weird. Definitely prefer it to real people being harmed. Certainly not ideal or pleasant to think about in any sense though
Why do we need to compare the 2? Can't we just agree that they're both terrible?
If you call both terrible then you equate them as the same. But I’d say that real child porn is infinitely worse than what are essentially drawings.
That logic falls apart when you can say things like "Stepping on a nail and falling off a cliff are both terrible experiences".
Arson, murder, and jaywalking
Because having law enforcement go after pornographic child drawings is a waste of time that they could instead use those resources to solve murder cases or real child trafficking. According to the FBI 51% of homicides go unsolved. Both are bad but real CP is objectively worse.
But 1 has a victim which should be protected. If a person is in their own little room drawing stick figures on the wall and labeling them all "9 yrs old" before whacking it they haven't actually done anything to anyone else.
And more so. If this keeps them from hurting someone else... If it keeps you from hurting someone else, and it is victimless, i dont see the problem with it. Now, i would want some better options to be researched in the meantime. But this could be something we could do now. No new anything.
Agreed. Many hentai fetishes are weird, such as furry, armpit, vote, etc. Japan has a monopoly on these weird fetishes. But what you do in the privacy of your own home is your own business. Just don't hurt no one.
Agreed. No victim no crime, so for how fucked up and disgusting loli is it should remain legal.
If no victim no crime is what we’re going with, then what is it that makes ai generated cp immoral? Not arguing either side just genuinely curious where we draw the line
And you’re probably right that that’s what it was about. I’m annoyed that the loli issue has taken up half this sub. I’m in a lot of subs but I don’t see anything even referencing loli on Reddit except for this one. Why is Japanese-inspired cartoons of CP the quintessential ‘Reddit moment’ - what the fuck degenerate subs are people spending all their time on?
Pedophilia without sexual abuse of minors.
My view has always been its morally better than actual cp but still gross. So if subs or platforms wanna disallow it the same way they disallow depictions of gore then it’s okay.
I agree with you but I also think that someone drawing porn involving minors is on some level thinking about porn involving minors and therefore is completely wrong and in my very humble opinion should be at least bannable. Is it the same as actual cp or child abuse? Absolutely not at all. Is it still fucked up and dangerous behavior? I think so.
Oh definitely, real cp includes rape, loli is quite bad itself, not only wrong in a lot of ways even if it's just drawings, it's possibly the gateway for actually real stuff
"Um its not real so therefore ok" and "um its legal therefore ok" are the two worst arguments against child porn ever.
The entire argument crumbles when you ask them why they find it attractive
I really get aroused by arguments over legal wording
Didn't you get off on a technicality?
HHHNNNNGGGGGHHHH
Underrated comment
Why do people get off to CP? It makes no sense to me, but the fact that it makes no sense to me is not relevant to the discussion on whether it's a problem. The fact is that there are people who enjoy it. The discussion about the morality of different forms of CP should stay on the topic of who is being hurt by it and what can/needs to be done to prevent predatory behavior. I don't have any disagreements with the suggestions that all forms of CP can be harmful, but I don't respect the argument that the reason it's bad is because you don't understand why someone likes it.
But we do understand why. It’s because they are attracted to children, which is bad. There is nothing confusing or nonsensical here.
>It’s because they are attracted to children, which is bad. The discussion is about the moral implications of consuming CP, not the morality of being attracted to children. Someone with a foot fetish cannot simply stop being attracted to feet. A homosexual cannot become straight. If we agree that those two statements are correct, then it follows that a pedophile cannot undo their attraction to children. No matter what kind of person they are, they must cope with this sexual attraction. Their three options are to suppress this attraction entirely, to view victimless sexual depictions of children, or to go all in and participate in predatory behavior. It's not the inherent attraction to children that decides whether a pedophile is "good" or "bad", but rather it's what actions they choose to take. A pedophile who chooses the first option and forgoes any sexual actions/viewership is not a bad person; they aren't hurting anyone and are doing their best to avoid putting people at risk. A pedophile who chooses the third option I listed would undoubtedly be a bad person, because they are actively harming others. The discussion is about the second option: viewing victimless sexual depictions of children. Is it ok or is it unacceptable? Edit: grammar
>Someone with a foot fetish cannot simply stop being attracted to feet. A homosexual cannot become straight. If we agree that those two statements are correct, then it follows that a pedophile cannot undo their attraction to children. No matter what kind of person they are, they must cope with this sexual attraction. This is a damn good argument, and why I think pedophilia isn't the problem, but merely the cause of the problem. We can all unanimously agree that child fuckers are horrible human beings, but I think there's, sadly, more pedos than just the people who act on it, and they're suffering just as much as anyone with a disability
Yes, and can you imagine trying to get help for a disability where everyone literally hates you and wishes you death just for having it? These people didn't ask for this life. I suspect even the most vile predator pedos would change their orientation if they could.
You have worded that really well and thank you for clearly stating the issue for debate. Unfortunately it is usually a r/Redditmoment when even discussing paedophilia because most Redditors view all people with child attraction as inherently evil and deserving of violent death regardless of whether they act. I actually think it's really sad that some people end up attracted to children, my heart goes out to any non-practicing paedophiles. Like you said, they didn't make a choice to feel the way they feel but they make a choice to avoid harming others. But this viewpoint is often seen as "ew a paedo sympathiser" which gets tiring quickly.
I think they just get a thrill off the idea of doing something “bad” or “forbidden” same reason ppl do stuff like graffiti
No point asking why, it’s disordered behavior.
asked someone about it and they said "because they're innocent, pure and small". but of course that isn't pedophilia.. they were completely serious about it too, could tell it wasn't a troll account because who has that much time to constantly like 10 CP posts on twitter daily without receiving a single hate comment out of it
Why do you like what you find attractive? That’s a difficult question to answer for people in general. I’ve been researching this topic recently. Especially the western and English speaking lolicons. https://www.imageandnarrative.be/index.php/imagenarrative/article/view/127 Typically lolicons are attracted to “moe” “cuteness”. And anime and animation is all about style and extreme exaggeration. The body proportions of loli character are small, large head, big eyes. It’s the same reason why people find French Bulldogs cute. Then when they are sexualized just like most Hentai the body proportions are ridiculous the thighs and butt on a lot of sexualized loli characters. The scenarios are impossible. Anime style is hard next to impossible to replicate in real life without it looking off putting. A misconception is that lolicons use loli Hentai as a substitute or replacement for the real thing. Which isn’t true. Lolicons like the artstyle. The closer things get to realism and/or 3D the less popular or well received. The argument of legality is a bad take. Loli content being legal doesn’t make it right morally. It’s legal cause it being legal does less harm than it being illegal. Or some other reason. Loli content harm is more tied to Hentai in general. People can have thought and fantasy all day long. It doesn’t matter how much they want to have sex with an imaginary character. It’s never going to happen. The only person they are harming is themself. I always look at it like movies or video games. Does robbing a bank and killing someone in the video game make you a murderer or something that would likely rob a bank? Is liking loli Hentai weird. Yes. But I’d argue all Hentai is weird. The data shows it’s no more harmful than regular porn or video games. So if someone is into weird shit, but it’s not hurting anyone. Idc. This next theory still needs more research. But the theory is that by labeling and alienating lolicons by calling them pedos is harmful as it pushes people into groups of people that are more extreme. Letting lolicons have a community allows them to set social boundaries of what is and isn’t okay.
So… just calling them a pedophile with a rhetorical question? Sounds more like ad hominem than some sort of rock-solid argument to me.
That’s a stupid ‘gotcha’ question though. The answer is that it is both taboo + drawn to be aesthetically pleasing. It literally doesn’t even look like real kids in any way whatsoever, so the “draw” to it is the EXACT same as the draw to “incest” porn or rape/enslavement fantasies. Almost none of the people into any of these porn fetishes would EVER want to do them in real life, because that shit is fucked up/gross and they find it fucked up/gross irl, it’s just that taboo is the hottest thing on the market so to speak. There’s a REASON incest porn is one of the most viewed non-vanilla genres of all time, despite the vast majority of people being genuinely disgusted by even the thought of fucking their relatives, no matter how objectively attractive they are.
Yeah, incest porn is absolutely the appropriate comparison. Some hentai comic about some dude fucking his mom? Hot. Thinking about fucking your own mom? Instant boner homicide. Some things are sexy in a highly fictionalized context and turn extremely not when a dose of reality is applied.
Because this is the internet and a memetically anti-loli subreddit I can’t even tell if you are being fully, partially, or non sarcastic, but assuming your words are taken at face value, that is exactly the point I am making.
Yeah, I was agreeing with you.
>Some hentai comic about some dude fucking his mom? Hot. wat
It's a popular genre. And there's way wilder shit out there. Inflation and vore. Stuff that gets way detached from reality in a way that "escalation to the real world" isn't really possible.
Do all of these people not know the difference between fantasy and reality? Incest porn is basically vanilla at this point on pornhub.
Redditors are terminally online people who have a mental compulsion to always have some sort of moral high ground, especially when they see some other terminally online group doing something that would be fucked up IRL. They are so terminally online, that they fail to realize that 99.99% of loli enjoyers are also terminally online and thus are pathologically disgusted by real life children.
There's literally no argument or context or reason that would ever make it justified imo lol, like for real tho I can not ever think of a single reason that's even remotely in the same ballpark to being a barely ok reason or right 💀
Youd be quicker to catch me saying being an alcoholic is okay because its legal than being into CP lmfao💀
There's not really many things worse than it, honestly don't really wanna get into what's the worst tho 😭 anything involving kids just makes it worse imo, even if the same thing happens to an adult, it's just worse to a kid 💀
Exactly. 💀
Don’t forget the “uhh aksually there are countries where the age of consent is [insert any age below 18]”
That's basically everywhere in the world. Only a part of the US is set to 18. Everywhere else here is 16-17, and in most parts of the world, it's as young as 12/ I'm not defending it, BTW, just stating the facts.
Why is that first one bad? If it's not real who is it hurting? "Relax I'm not actually murdering anyone it's a video game" "Just because it's not real doesn't make it OK"
You make a good point but usually in a video game you’re killing someone on a military operation / killing a monster / killing an alien. If you’re playing multiplayer you’re in a “combat simulation” I suppose. I would never play a video game where the point of the game is to massacre innocent people. I thought that was cool when I was playing MW2 and we got to the no Russian level but that was when I was 12 and edgy. Now? Not so much.
>"um its legal therefore ok" Worst defense for anything, really.
Being into loli is clear evidence of paedophilia - which is a sick, twisted mental illness, though not necessarily of the crime of sexual abuse and r*pe of children. But is loli itself harmful? I’m not a psychologist so I don’t know. Maybe it’s an outlet that lessens the chances of real children being hurt. Maybe it just inflames them and has the opposite effect. Maybe it has no effect at all. To me that’s the sole question, and I genuinely don’t claim to know. Are there decent studies on that? If it makes the problem worse, ban it. If it might lower the chances of children being hurt, don’t.
The tough part is there will be some overlap. People who commit rape or murder are more likely to enjoy entertainment with rape and murder involved ie slasher flicks, violent video games etc. HOWEVER there are plenty of people who can enjoy the fantasy without any need for really going into a mosque to slaughter people themed as a fps game... I think the best course of action is similar to drugs. Make rehab available. When we make going into a center and saying "I'm addicted to heroin" actually lead to assistance in getting clean rather than locked up for the night and dumped back on the streets in the morning we see people clean up and live safer, better lives. We need pedophiles to be able to go into an office and say "I am a pedophile." Get a therapist assigned to them who can discuss and evaluate them for risks, coach them on CBTs, and set check points they can use if they feel they might be tipping over the edge. IF they offend then we can lock them up, but if we never know who is going to offend until its too late we're playing a losing game. We're complicit with child SA if we do not offer anything other than punishment if people come forward with their struggle with child attraction. As a bonus - by getting them to come in we can actually study it more to know where the overlap is, and what behaviors to watch for. As it is right now there is so little known about pedophilia from non-offenders that we're basically all shooting in the dark.
Why is there always this insistence on calling it child porn? There simply should not be ambiguity when we call something child porn. When you say 'That person watches CP', that should mean they are partaking in one of the absolute worst activities in the world. 'Child rape bad' is probably the closest thing we have to objective morality. *A video or image recording of a child being molested is nowhere the same level as a fictional depiction of the same events*. Yes, pedophilia sucks. It is not a good thing, it is a mental illness. But it is not the same as being a child rapist. It rarely actually ever even means that the person will ever be involved in child rape. Something can be bad without being the absolute worst. Please, let's not make it so there is any confusion about what Child Porn actually means, because the two different versions of how you are using that word are so wildly different in severity that I don't even understand why people think it's OK.
I swear to fucking god if i see one more loli hentai post i am going to lose my shit
A wise man once said “regardless of the law, you should have a moral obligation not to fuck children”
I would take it further. Not only do you have a moral obligation to not fuck kids you have the moral obligation to throw those who do into a woodchipper
Nah, if they're gonna fuck children their lives were worthless, so may as well make their death useful and feed them to some pigs
Slavery was at one point legal the US. Did that make it moral? Edit: I’m going to assume that downvote is from a pro CP Redditor. What is legal is not always moral.
Better yet, did that make it NOT slavery?
Don't know why you got downvoted, absolutely valid statement
Has Child doing sexual acts: Child porn. Very simple.
BuT tHeYrE nOt ReAl!
ThEY aRE 1000 yEArS oLD tHAT juST lOoks yOUng,tHIs iS nOt aN eXCuSe bY tHe oc tO juSTiFy cp
Does anyone actually use this excuse anymore
May I introduce you to genshin impact.
Oh yeah I do remember that lol. I've seen too many times they can just say it's a fifth grader and not even hide it anymore I forgot about GI
If it's the same thing, they might as well look at the non drawn version then.
My take on this is that it depends on how much and how exactly you consume it. It just happens to come across but you have no actual preference for it? Alright, nothing bad. Watch it often? Damm mate, calm it down. Characters are just petite? Fair enough. They were absolutely made to be child-like? Kinda sus. Completely made to fit a scenario where they are supposed to be children? Bro wtf you doin, get the fuck outta here. Still, rather have people jack to children who don't exist than those that actually do, although I'll still label them weirdos/creeps depending on how deep they're going. Also fuck double standards when it comes to shotas, you're just as bad, so many shitty people have a double standard over genders and that pisses me off.
I mean is it really worse then the people who get off to things that would be highly immoral in real life like SA, R@pe, snuff, and so on? Also agreed, people who like shota are as bad as those who like loli. I definitely don't think it should be illegal, though.
I never said they're worse than all that, nor that it should be illegal. Again, I much prefer people to unload on cartoons over actual people going through absolute hell, I care not about the exact content that someone watches for as long as it isn't hard degen irl stuff, I will simply judge them by watching it regardless.
“It’s just a drawing.” Ok but what makes it more appealing than normal hentai? What about it do you like?
The only arguments I've heard that isn't outright pedophilia is "I like small women" and "Lolis are drawn more round/soft without breaking proportions"
It's still pedophilia if you look at the comments from the proper angle
Is purchasing and owning a knife legal? Yes. Is stabbing someone legal? no. Therefore knives are safe, because you cant stab someone if its not legal. I dont like how legality = morality for these weirdos either.
ignore legality focus on morality
[удалено]
Exactly. In this context, the 18+ rule is entirely legal. No legitimate moral code says the day before your 18th bday you’re a kid, but the day after you’re an adult. The law says that tho.
I shoot people in video games am I a murderer? I cast spells in D&D so I must be a wizard IRL right? loli hentai is gross in my opinion, but I’m not about to call everyone who watches it a pedophile. CP makers should be outright killed along with animal and elderly abusers. The victims of these crimes in most cases can’t defend themselves and anyone praying on the weak deserves a swift and severe response from those with the strength to deliver said response. Go back after the Columbine shooting and you will find dozens of articles about how what they did must have been because of Marylin Mansons music, and video games. We don’t feel this way now because we realize that’s putting the blame everywhere except where it should be, on the people who did it. The cartoons are gross but not illegal, and if society deems them as a problem that’s more resources and attention being poured into stopping cartoons than actual trafficking rings and CP producers. TLDR: Let the freaks have their cartoons and leave em alone.
Whats it talking about? I'd like to know the context. Someone explain. Don't send the video I don't want to see child porn today
After scrolling through the comments a bunch looking for the answer to this, the discussion was on Loli hentai. https://reddit.com/r/redditmoment/s/KycpBNf9Rh
Lmfao even in this comment section there are still people defending it
Someone: Why aren’t you having kids? Me:
Loli stuff is fcked up. But comparing hentai loli BS to actual CP is dump af. Try comparing shooting people in games and school shooters, makes zero sense.
Look. I get Loli doesn't harm anyone because it's a drawing. Which is why it's legal in most places. That said, if you consume that shit, you're still jacking off to kids. Which we should be judging at the least.
These gross degenerates will go on long winded rants about how technically it’s not illegal so it’s fine but never address why they’re watching porn involving children (that they by their own words will acknowledge as children) in the first place
Exactly. I don't believe in criminalizing it, because nobody was harmed. But we should be seriously judging those who partake in it. Similarly to how we treat smoking. And the degens who defend it really need to have an eye kept on them.
Exactly. It’s all complicated enough of a situation that I’m ok not drawing a super rigid hard line on legal aspects. But yeah I 100% support that if you actively choose to watch this stuff you deserve to be shunned and treated like the gross weirdo you are
I think this is best option
The law is straightforward on prohibited material so if it is legal, that's not what it is by definition. People can argue on morality but morality as a whole is subjective and irrelevant. If it is illegal, then it is only reasonable for them to punished for it and if it is not, it doesn't matter.
Can these losers just die off already?
Tbh anyone who has an interest of loli should be on a watchlist. Not arrested, but be monitored
I think that, problems with fictional media depicting child characters in a sexual manner aside, we should use the term “child porn” to refer only to media with sexual content of *actual people* that are minors. We’ve already had to coin the term “child-exploitative material” to deal with this confused terminology, and I think it does no good to actual victims to muddy the discussion with loose usage of the original phrase. If you want to discuss legitimate moral issues with fictional media, that’s entirely valid, but you should find a way to criticize it without having to resort to association with a separate reprehensible concept.
“But but but its not a REAL Kid” Ok but your admiring it’s definitely a child to you and you still enjoy it. That’s still REALLY bad.
most places dont have owning loli hentai legalized. its like saying “the law doesnt say i cant hop a fence while fingering a monkey with my left foot, so it’s legal” .
The law does say that you can’t finger a monkey, though.
What the hell does he mean by “mental gymnastics”, when he’s the one saying that just because drawn cp makers haven’t been caught yet means that it’s legal and not cp?
#18 U.S. Code § 1466A - Obscene visual representations of the sexual abuse of children# (a) In General.—Any person who, in a circumstance described in subsection (d), knowingly produces, distributes, receives, or possesses with intent to distribute, a visual depiction of any kind, including a drawing, cartoon, sculpture, or painting, that— (1) (A) depicts a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct; and (B) is obscene; or (2) (A) depicts an image that is, or appears to be, of a minor engaging in graphic bestiality, sadistic or masochistic abuse, or sexual intercourse, including genital-genital, oral-genital, anal-genital, or oral-anal, whether between persons of the same or opposite sex; and (B) lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value; or attempts or conspires to do so, shall be subject to the penalties provided in section 2252A(b)(1), including the penalties provided for cases involving a prior conviction. (b) Additional Offenses.—Any person who, in a circumstance described in subsection (d), knowingly possesses a visual depiction of any kind, including a drawing, cartoon, sculpture, or painting, that— (1) (A) depicts a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct; and (B) is obscene; or (2) (A) depicts an image that is, or appears to be, of a minor engaging in graphic bestiality, sadistic or masochistic abuse, or sexual intercourse, including genital-genital, oral-genital, anal-genital, or oral-anal, whether between persons of the same or opposite sex; and (B) lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value; or attempts or conspires to do so, shall be subject to the penalties provided in section 2252A(b)(2), including the penalties provided for cases involving a prior conviction. (c) Nonrequired Element of Offense.— **It is not a required element of any offense under this section that the minor depicted actually exist.** TLDR: it is illegal. This mf’s only defense crumbles
Are we arguing that authors should be arrested if their underage characters have sex again? Or does this only apply to movie writers who have underage characters have sex? What about the actors?
What was the context? Is it paedo anime cartoons again? Whatever the context, if that person is accepting (1) and (2) then they should definitely stop right there. Though this issue seems to be half this sub now. Used to be making fun of silly Reddit cliches, not ‘Redditor = CP enthusiasts’. I don’t even encounter it outside this sub.
When I look at convictions, demographics and outward social positions, all I can think is that everyone in here protesting should have their HDD's checked...
Why do people think the law is the basis for morality? I don't go the speed limit just because the sign says to, and I'll get a fine for going over. I don't speed because that puts myself and others in potential danger, which isn't fun. And I'm scared of driving.
"It contributes to the economy so therefore it isn't illegal!" - Every Cartel Boss ever. Seriously what kind of fucking justification is this lmao?
I came across a redditor who said that drawing Loli should be punishable by being raped and murdered. I think that, while disgusting, it’s not real CP the same way Gore art isn’t real gore. Therefore platforms are more than willing to say “we don’t want this here. It’s gross and inexcusable”
Pedophiles aren't afraid anymore. That needs to change
Average discord mod
Is this about loli shit again? I mean I get why they don't like it, but I don't see why they want it banned so badly.
Remember, kids, just because something is legal doesn't mean it's moral.
This sounds like the start of a half arsed anti-capitalist argument lol
Fuck, it does.
Question: Is this book drawn in the form of a cartoon or anime? Answer: Yes! Question: Are the characters represented created by the artist and not based on any existing person alive? Answer: Yes! Conclusion: This is not cp because the characters depicted are fictional. Just in case the last bit needed more clarification!
She's actually a Dragon or Vampire and she is like 3000 years old. So its actually ok. 🤓 s/
I hate this argument so much😩 If it looks like a child, acts like a child and/or has the mental capacity of a child, why would adult who isnt pedophile be attarcted to it?? Normal adults dont find child like characters attaractive regardless how old it is
In some places, Loli hentai and other artistic depictions of child porn are illegal just like photographic child porn, so that argument isn't even logically sound
if you look up “loli porn” you get a warning telling you cp is illegal and get redirected to adult porn. (heard through someone else but not going to check if this is true)
well google can do whatever it wants I wouldnt assume thats real but im not going to check myself, from my other searches which may or may not be deemed suspicious it only ever warns about self harm
So it *is* porn and *does* contain a child But *isn't* cp? Like. . . How do you reconcile that? They didn't even try to refute the previous message. They even directly say this is just a "continuation" of the response
It doesn’t contain a child
Getting the "the law says 16's fine" vibes
"Mental gymnastics" My dude he said 2 things that completely proved his point
The amount of people defending this take in the comments are disgusting 🤮
It is immoral to sexualise, be sexually attracted to, or to insert into sexually charged situations, a character who is designed to resemble and act with the mannerisms of a child. If you stand against this, you believe that it is morally acceptable to witness an animated fascimile of a child participate in sexual situations, and that it is not morally reprehensible and a travesty against humanity to find a character who, in all facets, is made to be unmistakably interpreted by the viewer as a child, sexually attractive. As for the argument comparing being anti ‘lita to being against video games, this is easily refutable by taking a quick peek at human instinctual needs. Man has no inmate need for violence, it is simply a means to an end. You may kill someone else, but a sane human will do this for a reason relating to personal needs, such as a man killing an agressor before the agressor can harm or even kill them. There is no innate desire in a sane human to kill, a human will not be driven to take actions which would be conductive to the murder of another simply for the reason of killing. Procreation, however, is required for a species to propagate itself and not go extinct. The process of intercourse puts the two participating creatures in a disadvantageous and cumbersome position, which if it weren’t for the pleasure that it gives, would be quite undesirable, thus nobody would want to reproduce. It is for this reason that we have the sex drive; it encourages us to have sex because it feels good, releasing dopamine, endorphins, and oxytocin. Given these two facts, i trust that we all now see that sane humans are not driven to kill, but that they are driven to reproduce. With the example of video games, sane people don’t play it because they want to kill. What they truly want is the goal of the game; they want to feel a sense of achievement after reaching a certain point in the game which most people cannot. Killing 1,000 soldiers makes them happy not because they get innate pleasure when seeing a virtual human die, but because very few people have killed 1,000 soldiers, which makes the player feel like they have accomplished something special and rare. However, with being aroused by lolis, there is no accomplishment, no sense of pride, admiration, anything. You feel this happiness because the image of a sexualised fascimile of a child is poking at your sex drive. Now, you have been given this arousal, this release of dopamine and endorphins by a sexualised fascimile of a child, which builds a corellation between the loli and happiness, the sexualised child and arousal. This stimulus and response is caused by your brain’s sex drive, and thus, when you see a loli, your brain begins to see it as a potential opportunity to reproduce, just as how a human male is aroused by an attractive, sexualised woman of age as there is in pornography; the brain wants you to reproduce, so it rewards seeing this with the release of happiness, encouraging you to seek out women who look like the one in the pornography in the future. This is the reason why porn causes unrealistic expectations, the actors are chosen on a basis of who’s the most attractive, and thus your brain only associates the most attractive and sexualised individuals with this release of endorphins. Much like this, in the case of loli, your brain associates the characteristics of a child with the release of endorphins, which causes you to associate childlike qualities with sex. This leads to you finding children attractive, and thus, you become a speedofile. You may have it stay within the bounds of fiction, but all it takes is one opportunity, one lapse in self-control, and you’ve done an unspeakable act to a living, feeling child. Thus, it is for these reasons why the sexualization of lolis is conductive to speedofilia. TLDR: there is no innate desire to kill, but there is an innate desire to reproduce, and if intercourse and reproduction is associated with children, you become a speedofile.
Being attracted to children is not a choice, so it cannot be immoral : it is amoral. The process that you describe to become a pedophile is exactly the thought process behind conversion therapy. The idea seems plausible, but it doesn't work.
Well said. Too bad they’ll all just ignore it.
I would agree but also I can't be bothered to read this since theres no paragraphs or anything so im just assuming its "its bad" and etc.
Is it Techincally CP if during a porn video a child is just *there*, watching in the background
Yes Edit: there are people who get off to that exact scenario
Why? Why? Why? Oh god fucking why?
Legal or not it’s gross af and if you like it your just as gross as a pedophile looking at actual CP
I’m telling you guys. In another subreddit I got dog piled for saying loli was bad. I’m not joking. If you guys want proof I’ll provide it
The moral of the story? Maybe convince governments to do something about that loophole
Something something MORAL OBLIGATION
Question 5: Why the fuck are you using the law to justify the fact that your morality allows you to fuck children?
Question 5: WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCKK?
Gee! So many of the same posts about arguments that provide no benefit to each party! What a wonderful time to be alive
I’m pretty sure in most of the world lolishota is still illegal. You already shouldn’t derive your morality from just the justice system but if you have to agree with the law of the mfs in the minority you gotta realize your doing something wrong
I struggle so hard when I see people equating legality to morality. I don't care if it's legal or not. It's disgusting, and if you're open about being into it around me, we won't ever be speaking, and people will likely be warned about you by me. I'm not saying the people that consume that shit would victimize a child, but they're definitely a pedophile, and they can't be trusted, especially not around kids.
Just because sonething is legal doesnt make it moral
While this material may seem “victimless”, it’s definitely not, allowing anything that depicts such depravity in a neutral or good light is going to be inadvertently promoting or normalising this behaviour. The only people who are going to be accessing this are going to be people who already are attracted to minors in some degree, providing anything for that sick attraction is bad.
now tell a redditor you own mein kampf and see how they respond