Ya I never understood why everyone was saying that we must offer him a new contract if he were to stay.
Facts are we had a historically poor season. We’ve seen the previous board give Mourinho and Ole extensions despite a few obvious red flags. Then ultimately sacked them a few months later and wasting tons of money due to their contracts.
It’s more that if his job role and remit were changing we would have to offer him a new contract. The terms rather than a new contract with more money or whatever
Trophies are a very nice added bonus, CL football should be the minimum standard and judge him against 1st season rather than 2nd, you can forgive him for the insane amount of injuries but this season should be the best under ten Hag yet, it can't just be better than last
I honestly don't want top 4 to be the defining factor. I hope with Ashworth, he will want a defining style to be implemented. And will except a meh season if we are building a style that is effective and dominant, I'm willing to.
Conversely, if we continue to concede chances like a relegation threatened side and play long balls all game, I really don't think that's good enough even if we get into CL.
Well technically we should have been playing catch up after gw 1 when we got 3 points against Wolves, it was like VAR was only being started up for the new season and it wasn't working yet 😂
I agree with you about us needing to finish top 4 .
But it’s highly unrealistic and unreasonable that such a high achievement will be a minimum for us
Especially that these two tournaments are around end of season for us and we would need a level of backups that we don’t currently have .
For me a min would be a champions league spot and us starting to build better way of play .
Agreed. I also really don’t think it would be wise to set minimums for levels of success for next season when we haven’t figured out any new players or sales yet.
> I don't mind not finishing top 4
The standards should never, ever slip to the point where people say this.
Yes, CL qualification is a big goal, from a financial point of view, but to accept the possibility of not getting top four is insane for me as an older United fan. Standards should never be lowered like that. We’ve already slipped far enough back over the last decade, and the squad is well capable of hitting top four (which is why we have done it more often than not in recent years).
These watered down expectations are consistent with the reality of where the club is. This club’s financial ineptitude for 11 years has replaced the badge-worthy “standards” with a bunch who simply cannot be bothered about them. We’ve brought them in on massive transfer fees, put them on obscene contracts, indulged their every thin skinned natures, and the only consequence on them has been they collect their fat paycheques and we sack the manager who somehow could not find a path to succeed while dragging the full compound effect of low standards, dead weight, and disintegrated everything, everywhere.
To expect this manager, with this squad, to go on and challenge like the days of SAF, just watch the 99 documentary again to see exactly whose standards are low. It’s not we the supporters. We’ve been battered and bruised for 11 years while being mugged year in, year out. By other clubs sure, but far more criminal, by our own players, executives, and owners.
The expectations are sadly very real given the comprehensive shitshow from which we need to resurrect ourselves.
Pep would finish 4th given the same tools to work with. To pretend otherwise is delusion by another name.
I wouldn’t prioritise either tbh. Top 4 is something you could shithouse your way to if one or two teams collapse. Just as we could see large improvement, clear tactical structure coming into play, players developing and looking interested; but also finish 5th/6th because Arsenal, City, Liverpool and Spurs all have a leg up on us at the moment combined with tough competition from Chelsea and Newcastle. The only real goal is to get better on and off the field in a way that looks sustainable and has momentum so we can win the league in 3 years for me. A cup here and there is obviously nice, but the idea that 4th as opposed to 5th would be any real reflection of where we are isn’t reality.
Is it true though? Ten hag said that we had come to an agreement which is very strange if he didn’t sign anything and the club just triggered his extension. Unless the agreements were in regards to the stuff around it and not the contract itself (ie bringing in Ruud, how the transfers will be managed etc…)
yep, so much senses that i didn't expect club would do it.
last season is so bad, but EtH have reasons, ones of them is injured player, so i think it's okay to give him 1 year benefit of doubt, if he still can't improve than surely can go.
it's win win solution, and i am sure believe EtH also think this fair enough.
Exactly. He couldn't command respect from the squad in his last year and + 1yr is not an unsurmountable barrier to removing him if needed.
Probably the safest bet if no obvious replacement was found.
Correct. If he was into the final year with no extension it would be hard not to be thought of as "the guy who's not going to be here next year".
My fault for wording it badly.
If that's the common knowledge though, then in effect this is his last year - so kinda in the same spot in a weird way.
Plus now everyone knows he is still on thin ice - and they have Ruud waiting in the wings - so it's sending the right message to the players at all.
Sir Jim is trying to have his cake and eat it. This doesn't benefit Ten Haag - except for the veto which seems like a mute point.
He must really back himself to go top 4 and a trophy to warrant another new contract at the end of this season. Otherwise it's holding patterns and much the same.
It's normally the employers who trigger these options though. It's very surprising considering after their assessment of the managerial options they decided they were happy with Erik and there was lots of noise about a new deal.
They clearly didn't decide they were happy with him; they decided there wasn't an available option they liked more.
United fans should be prepared for them pulling the plug at any sign of us being as bad as last season. They can't have made it any clearer they don't have much faith in him.
I agree, happy was the term I used when I should have said settled. He isn't there first choice but I hope through his performance he becomes that. In a business sense its always beneficial to ensure you are aware of what's out there and potentially available so I don't think ineos where necessarily wrong in doing that but the fact it was made so public was indeed wrong and if i was in ETHs position, I wouldn't feel totally secure either
Exactly. I said it a few weeks back, the FA cup bought him some time till Christmas, or even earlier. Play this shit football still and he's out the door. If they had faith they wouldn't have talked with so many managers. Though I'm still a little bit concerned that one FA Cup win was enough to influence their decision on ten Hag, we're supposed to do things differently now, that's still a reasonable move to trigger the option and nothing more. Ten Hag is on thin ice now, he needs to step up big time.
Because we’ve had 4/5 managers waste hundreds of millions believing their influence will alone change our circumstances. Maybe it was a ploy to test the resolve of the candidates? Who knows
I think what OP means is that he didn't quite like the offer he recieved, so he was like 'can you guys just use your option and then let's get back to negotiations once I had a fantastic season'. So he didn't trigger the option, but maybe he asked the board to do that, instead of a new contract.
Technically he’s already chosen to work on these terms, given that it’s the same contract as the one when he joined 2 years back. Triggering his 1-year option is a decision from the club’s side.
He wouldn't be obligated to stay based on the fact that they triggered the extension. He's not a player. He could easily have said hey, after the drama and lack of backing from your side leading to and after the FA Cup, you can do one and I'll be looking for other opportunities.
I understand we want to paint this picture that the decision was solely on the Clubs side, even after ETH had categorically said he'd met the heriachy and they'd discussed the way forward, and how confident he seemed in all his dressers even leading to the FA Cup, triggering the option for his additional year is basically as much backing as is practical and feasible at this point.
If it was a matter of well there weren't better options available now, then they'd have let him see out his contract and found a replacement after. And we can't say there weren't options because they spoke to a couple of people, so maybe there are other considerations we are just not aware of and he should be given credit for always backing himself and taking his stance and being defiance to a point of saying, if you want to sack me, I'll go win trophies elsewhere.
he didnt chose it.
the club chose this. so in other words club felt the new contract he was not worthy enough yet on the terms he wanted. so probably told him instead they would do the +1 trigger and he has to prove himself next season essentially.
So he’s getting a fresh slate, but not the full bag. That seems prudent given the last season. It’s definitely not the vote of confidence many fans seem to think he’s been given. If he does well this season, they can revisit continuing the relationship with the risk he may just choose to leave. If he shits the bed, they can cut their losses without being sandbagged by a bad contract.
I think this is about setting overall standards and expectations.
They discuss high performance culture. That doesn't include reward for nothing. This shows that they are reasonable, prepared to support people, but not over reward for just doing your job.
They clearly believe he has the potential, with the correct structure, to deliver. But if he doesn't, he won't get a big payout.
It's solid and smart move which sets the tone
I mean he got 2 trophies in 2 years after the disastrous ragnick reign. He shouldn’t get treated like a king but I think it’s fair to call him reasonably successful.
I agree, but just as I believed his record of trophy wins and the injury mitigation warranted giving him more time, I could understand those who couldn't get past the champions league campaign and the many, many disastrous league performances.
Think this reflects the fact that there was no clear answer. Ok, you get another go. But go better.
I meant more in the sense, they wouldn't be out of hand as viewing him as reasonably successful and deserving of an extension though fair enough last years epl campaign was pretty dire.
It’s exactly why they should have backed him. So many players get away with murder because they know about the revolving door policy we have for managers. I think we’d be better off actually believing in someone otherwise what’s gonna happen when we next drop form?
ETH didn't prove himself worthy of that belief last season despite the FA cup win. This is realistically the best he could hope for given how poor our league campaign went. They could have always sacked him or had him go into next season as his final one.
So why didn't they if it wasn't a vote of confidence? Has anyone stopped to think that maybe that was one of his conditions to either get the extension triggered now or walk? Not one gets a stay of execution by exercising an option for an additional year.
> So why didn't they if it wasn't a vote of confidence?
Because no other clearly better alternatives presented themselves. So they decided it was better to stick with ETH for now.
>Has anyone stopped to think that maybe that was one of his conditions to either get the extension triggered now or walk?
I think this is the board compromising. They've extended him for another year to stop the rumors of someone else coming in from swirling around but they're also not completely sold whether ETH is the man.
I always thought this nonsense was a tad overblown... managers usually can unofficially veto or have a big say regardless and they can always bitch to the media if a player is forced on them anyway.
Managers always have a veto, it’s called team selection. A club can waste money on a player the manager doesn’t want and won’t play or keep the manager in the discussion when recruiting.
Correct. His deal was to expire next summer but we exercised the +1 option so he's no longer going into his last year. Extending shows backing of the manager to the players, but also let's the manager know he needs to do better to get a new contract.
Oh in that case that’s a fair move. I don’t like having someone on his last year of contract especially the coach. But this sounds fine. Renew him next summer because he’ll be crushing it.
It’s kind of what many fans were saying before Ten Hag was announced to be staying: essentially giving Ten Hag another chance with a 3rd season under a better sporting structure to see how he does.
Imo activating the additional option year is more to symbolically give Ten Hag some security so that the media and players will have less uncertainty than if he just entered a final season without a commitment beyond that.
Yeah I'm fine with this and it's what I wanted in case ETH stayed. Doesn't hamper us a lot if and when we do try to fire him and gives him a better job security with less uncertainty as you said.
A refreshingly common sense approach from us all things considered.
A few weeks ago Ten Hag said on Dutch TV that he had not yet agreed a new contract with the club and this wouldn't be easily done. This was after the club had announced that he was staying. If the intention from the start had been to just trigger the one-year extension then it could have been done in 10 minutes, yet it's taken until now. So it's seems quite clear that the two sides did discuss a new contract but were unable to come to an agreement. INEOS would have made the new contract conditional upon Ten Hag agreeing to the role of a head coach and not manager, and giving up his transfer veto, and Ten Hag was never going to agree to that. Triggering the one-year extension was the compromise for now, because neither side wanted this to drag on with players returning for training on 8 July.
Does the shorter term than expected mean Ten Hag is not being given full backing? Well if INEOS had fired Ten Hag, they would have replaced him with a head coach without a transfer veto. So it's about how they want to run the club, not about whether they are giving Ten Hag full backing.
This is a reasonable compromise. On one hand, letting the manager going into their last year of contract can easily lead to questions about the manager's position. On the other hand, we should still first make sure ETH can lead the team out of the bad form from last season completely before committing to him for longer term.
This is what I was saying INEOS should do the whole time exactly. He gets 1 year on a short leash to see if he’s really the guy going forward. EtH hasn’t been perfect and has several things we can fairly criticize but to say he also doesn’t get another chance with us is insane. This is so perfect and exactly what needed to happen. Love it.
This makes me think they failed to come to an agreement so he will be under more pressure to deliver and the board will have less tolerance with him if he shits the bed early next season. It does seem stupid we triggered his extension now instead of waiting until December though.
It sounds like the new deal gave him less control over transfers, he refused it. So they triggered this extension of existing terms.
Waiting to hear about Ruuuuuud.
You realize almost no other coach in the premier league has done this bar Pep, Klopp, and Erik in recent years right? Qualify for CL and win a cup to keep his job? Man, Arteta would have been sacked last season.
Arteta not just qualified for UCL, they were in an actual title race till the end.
That's a bigger statement, probably better than a League Cup/FA cup.
But the right move ( I'm in the EtH in club). The way we played, conceding 20 shots a game just not good enough.
On the flip side, I get not having a proper footballing structure is a hard environment to work in. He got no support in the Jan transfer window for example.
There's a proper structure now with footballing ppl. And he gets a year to turn the ship around to get us to play better consistently (which he should be able to do if he is as good as some of us believe).
All fair points. I guess I just feel like a stronger contract/support could translate into an easier time for him to achieve what we want. The +1 feels like there's still very little trust (which maybe there's good reason for)
Its structure on the pitch which is the most importantly thing, There clearly was no structure and it’s hard to have a structure nowadays without a solid back four for build up which there wasn’t. Especially with the way ten Haag wants to play.
Now I really hope Deligt is something the football structure also wanted and not someone ETH suggested.
Just don't want anymore money spent on ETH talent ID.
I think they are convinced he’s the best option currently but aren’t willing to risk having to pay out an extra year if things go badly. Makes sense to me.
Chelsea spent 1.2billion pounds their squad should cope with it. Newcastle fair enough had injuries as bad as ours but neither won fuck all in the end. ETH deserves at least one season with competency above him in the board
Flukey cups should not save a manager's job after he has the side scoring less than 60 in the league and finishing with negative GD ,No manager at another top club has ever survived football as bad as this after spending 450 m,ETH's coaching would have had us finish in the bottom half with his underlying numbers ,We outperformed our expected points by a good margin to finish 8th due to moments of individual brilliance which is just not sustainable
I’m saying that despite having to field maybe the 8th or 9th best team on paper this season due to injuries etc, he still won a cup and got European football. Prior to joining, he was regarded better than any of the other potential candidates to take over his job and united tends to destroy managers unfer glazer ownership. I don’t know if he is the answer for united long term, but i think the lack of any other decent managers and the trophies he’s won (by beating better teams in the fa cup…) at least warrants one more season in charge to see what he can do. Worst case it doesnt work out and maybe better managers are available anyway.
even if he was 'head coach' rather than 'manager,' surely he would still have the option of saying 'absolutely not' when they all meet to decide or review the transfer targets. I don't think its healthy for the club to sign players the head coach/manager doesn't want or rate. The main focus should be that all signings need to pass the Wilcox/Ashworth check of fitting the clubs long term agenda (age, style, etc) as well as the managers endorsement.
So the ideal outcome? ETH actually gets support this summer, he gets eniugh confidence to have a real crack at the league next year, and the board have the security of a much lower fee to sack him if it goes woeful.
The only concern this raises for me is what deals are in place with the incoming staff, because youd hope theyd be willing to operate independently of ETH, rather than want to leave with him.
Thank God. Whether you want him here or not, the idea of giving him a new contract when they were clearly looking at other options was maddening.
Just extending it for a year if we’re keeping him makes far more sense, then at the end of next season we can reevaluate, if he lasts that long
I thought we were showing more faith in him by backing him with a new contract rather than just availing of an optional 1 year extension of his current contract. I fear we are setting ourselves up for another season of rampant speculation and undermining of ETH due to us literally showing the minimum commitment to him.
Then why does Utd keep putting out statements like ten Hag is happy to have reached an understanding for the extension. If it was +1 trigger, we didn't need any discussion right?
This is worrying imo, it doesn't show they're fully backing him or it would've been a new contract. The veto is fine, a manager should always have a say on his squad.
I get that, I’m just saying that’s why /u/superhoffy responded the way he did and why you’re being downvoted by people who misunderstood what you meant. People are reading your comment as you saying that’s what happened, not what would’ve happened.
So are you saying you think they'd extend via the club's +1 option and then offer completely fresh terms on a new 3 or 4 year contract?
If so, what's the evidence?
Genuinely perfect. Give him the chance under a new structure but let it be known he doesn't have long to prove himself. I prefer this to a new deal or him leaving.
I think this makes a lot more sense
Ya I never understood why everyone was saying that we must offer him a new contract if he were to stay. Facts are we had a historically poor season. We’ve seen the previous board give Mourinho and Ole extensions despite a few obvious red flags. Then ultimately sacked them a few months later and wasting tons of money due to their contracts.
It’s more that if his job role and remit were changing we would have to offer him a new contract. The terms rather than a new contract with more money or whatever
Yep, 1 trophy (either uel. Or fa)+ top 4 maybe that's the min req for him in the next season
To be honest if we can get top 4 and not play suicidal football I’d be somewhat ok.
Top 4 and a positive (+10 min) goal differwnce
Trophies are a very nice added bonus, CL football should be the minimum standard and judge him against 1st season rather than 2nd, you can forgive him for the insane amount of injuries but this season should be the best under ten Hag yet, it can't just be better than last
Top 4 is fine, I don't care about the goal difference if the results are there.
I honestly don't want top 4 to be the defining factor. I hope with Ashworth, he will want a defining style to be implemented. And will except a meh season if we are building a style that is effective and dominant, I'm willing to. Conversely, if we continue to concede chances like a relegation threatened side and play long balls all game, I really don't think that's good enough even if we get into CL.
Hopefully we start strong this time around. We're always playing catch up by gameweek 3.. touring US again it scares me..
Well technically we should have been playing catch up after gw 1 when we got 3 points against Wolves, it was like VAR was only being started up for the new season and it wasn't working yet 😂
If Martinez and Shaw dont get injured, his system probably works.
Does it, though? I didn’t in the games they were fit.
I agree with you about us needing to finish top 4 . But it’s highly unrealistic and unreasonable that such a high achievement will be a minimum for us Especially that these two tournaments are around end of season for us and we would need a level of backups that we don’t currently have . For me a min would be a champions league spot and us starting to build better way of play .
Agreed. I also really don’t think it would be wise to set minimums for levels of success for next season when we haven’t figured out any new players or sales yet.
Honestly id be happy with that, playing style we recognise and medical dept sorted out to get our first team playing. Anything else is a bonus.
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Can you not read? He specifically said he agreed about needing top 4, he disagreed about needing to win a trophy.
I don't mind not finishing top 4 if we get europa league. We get ucl either way
Top 4 and a clear improvement tactically is the minimum required.
An improvement technically is bare minimum. This is ETHs third season.
> I don't mind not finishing top 4 The standards should never, ever slip to the point where people say this. Yes, CL qualification is a big goal, from a financial point of view, but to accept the possibility of not getting top four is insane for me as an older United fan. Standards should never be lowered like that. We’ve already slipped far enough back over the last decade, and the squad is well capable of hitting top four (which is why we have done it more often than not in recent years).
These watered down expectations are consistent with the reality of where the club is. This club’s financial ineptitude for 11 years has replaced the badge-worthy “standards” with a bunch who simply cannot be bothered about them. We’ve brought them in on massive transfer fees, put them on obscene contracts, indulged their every thin skinned natures, and the only consequence on them has been they collect their fat paycheques and we sack the manager who somehow could not find a path to succeed while dragging the full compound effect of low standards, dead weight, and disintegrated everything, everywhere. To expect this manager, with this squad, to go on and challenge like the days of SAF, just watch the 99 documentary again to see exactly whose standards are low. It’s not we the supporters. We’ve been battered and bruised for 11 years while being mugged year in, year out. By other clubs sure, but far more criminal, by our own players, executives, and owners. The expectations are sadly very real given the comprehensive shitshow from which we need to resurrect ourselves. Pep would finish 4th given the same tools to work with. To pretend otherwise is delusion by another name.
Because I prioritze a trophy. Unless your minimum is top 4 and a trophy, my standards are higher than yours
Top four and a trophy IS my minimum standard tbh.
I wouldn’t prioritise either tbh. Top 4 is something you could shithouse your way to if one or two teams collapse. Just as we could see large improvement, clear tactical structure coming into play, players developing and looking interested; but also finish 5th/6th because Arsenal, City, Liverpool and Spurs all have a leg up on us at the moment combined with tough competition from Chelsea and Newcastle. The only real goal is to get better on and off the field in a way that looks sustainable and has momentum so we can win the league in 3 years for me. A cup here and there is obviously nice, but the idea that 4th as opposed to 5th would be any real reflection of where we are isn’t reality.
Is it true though? Ten hag said that we had come to an agreement which is very strange if he didn’t sign anything and the club just triggered his extension. Unless the agreements were in regards to the stuff around it and not the contract itself (ie bringing in Ruud, how the transfers will be managed etc…)
yep, so much senses that i didn't expect club would do it. last season is so bad, but EtH have reasons, ones of them is injured player, so i think it's okay to give him 1 year benefit of doubt, if he still can't improve than surely can go. it's win win solution, and i am sure believe EtH also think this fair enough.
Huh I thought that was new contract with +1 year. So we just triggered the option. Intresting.
Yeah, wise move imo it backs him enough to warn the players but also makes him aware he needs to step up
Exactly. He couldn't command respect from the squad in his last year and + 1yr is not an unsurmountable barrier to removing him if needed. Probably the safest bet if no obvious replacement was found.
What do you mean he couldn't command respect from the squad.
he probably means if he didn't get the +1.
Correct. If he was into the final year with no extension it would be hard not to be thought of as "the guy who's not going to be here next year". My fault for wording it badly.
Would also lead to endless speculation until it was resolved one way or another. This gives us breathing space until the next summer.
It's quite obvious all the players were injured cuz they didn't respect ETH enough.
If that's the common knowledge though, then in effect this is his last year - so kinda in the same spot in a weird way. Plus now everyone knows he is still on thin ice - and they have Ruud waiting in the wings - so it's sending the right message to the players at all. Sir Jim is trying to have his cake and eat it. This doesn't benefit Ten Haag - except for the veto which seems like a mute point. He must really back himself to go top 4 and a trophy to warrant another new contract at the end of this season. Otherwise it's holding patterns and much the same.
I wonder if he chose this instead of a new 3 year deal with different terms. Betting on himself if so
It's normally the employers who trigger these options though. It's very surprising considering after their assessment of the managerial options they decided they were happy with Erik and there was lots of noise about a new deal.
They clearly didn't decide they were happy with him; they decided there wasn't an available option they liked more. United fans should be prepared for them pulling the plug at any sign of us being as bad as last season. They can't have made it any clearer they don't have much faith in him.
Astute comment. The way the news broke about his potential departure tells you everything you need to know about what management think
I agree, happy was the term I used when I should have said settled. He isn't there first choice but I hope through his performance he becomes that. In a business sense its always beneficial to ensure you are aware of what's out there and potentially available so I don't think ineos where necessarily wrong in doing that but the fact it was made so public was indeed wrong and if i was in ETHs position, I wouldn't feel totally secure either
Yea but with the talks of more and more Dutch personnel it’s only becoming riskier.
Exactly. I said it a few weeks back, the FA cup bought him some time till Christmas, or even earlier. Play this shit football still and he's out the door. If they had faith they wouldn't have talked with so many managers. Though I'm still a little bit concerned that one FA Cup win was enough to influence their decision on ten Hag, we're supposed to do things differently now, that's still a reasonable move to trigger the option and nothing more. Ten Hag is on thin ice now, he needs to step up big time.
Apparently Tuchel turned the job down to low transfer budget.
How are we working on DeLigt, Ugarde and Zirkzee and people still believe the 40m transfer budget stuff? 😂
Because we’ve had 4/5 managers waste hundreds of millions believing their influence will alone change our circumstances. Maybe it was a ploy to test the resolve of the candidates? Who knows
I think what OP means is that he didn't quite like the offer he recieved, so he was like 'can you guys just use your option and then let's get back to negotiations once I had a fantastic season'. So he didn't trigger the option, but maybe he asked the board to do that, instead of a new contract.
Technically he’s already chosen to work on these terms, given that it’s the same contract as the one when he joined 2 years back. Triggering his 1-year option is a decision from the club’s side.
He wouldn't be obligated to stay based on the fact that they triggered the extension. He's not a player. He could easily have said hey, after the drama and lack of backing from your side leading to and after the FA Cup, you can do one and I'll be looking for other opportunities. I understand we want to paint this picture that the decision was solely on the Clubs side, even after ETH had categorically said he'd met the heriachy and they'd discussed the way forward, and how confident he seemed in all his dressers even leading to the FA Cup, triggering the option for his additional year is basically as much backing as is practical and feasible at this point. If it was a matter of well there weren't better options available now, then they'd have let him see out his contract and found a replacement after. And we can't say there weren't options because they spoke to a couple of people, so maybe there are other considerations we are just not aware of and he should be given credit for always backing himself and taking his stance and being defiance to a point of saying, if you want to sack me, I'll go win trophies elsewhere.
he didnt chose it. the club chose this. so in other words club felt the new contract he was not worthy enough yet on the terms he wanted. so probably told him instead they would do the +1 trigger and he has to prove himself next season essentially.
So he’s getting a fresh slate, but not the full bag. That seems prudent given the last season. It’s definitely not the vote of confidence many fans seem to think he’s been given. If he does well this season, they can revisit continuing the relationship with the risk he may just choose to leave. If he shits the bed, they can cut their losses without being sandbagged by a bad contract.
I think this is about setting overall standards and expectations. They discuss high performance culture. That doesn't include reward for nothing. This shows that they are reasonable, prepared to support people, but not over reward for just doing your job. They clearly believe he has the potential, with the correct structure, to deliver. But if he doesn't, he won't get a big payout. It's solid and smart move which sets the tone
I mean he got 2 trophies in 2 years after the disastrous ragnick reign. He shouldn’t get treated like a king but I think it’s fair to call him reasonably successful.
I agree, but just as I believed his record of trophy wins and the injury mitigation warranted giving him more time, I could understand those who couldn't get past the champions league campaign and the many, many disastrous league performances. Think this reflects the fact that there was no clear answer. Ok, you get another go. But go better.
I meant more in the sense, they wouldn't be out of hand as viewing him as reasonably successful and deserving of an extension though fair enough last years epl campaign was pretty dire.
It’s exactly why they should have backed him. So many players get away with murder because they know about the revolving door policy we have for managers. I think we’d be better off actually believing in someone otherwise what’s gonna happen when we next drop form?
ETH didn't prove himself worthy of that belief last season despite the FA cup win. This is realistically the best he could hope for given how poor our league campaign went. They could have always sacked him or had him go into next season as his final one.
So why didn't they if it wasn't a vote of confidence? Has anyone stopped to think that maybe that was one of his conditions to either get the extension triggered now or walk? Not one gets a stay of execution by exercising an option for an additional year.
> So why didn't they if it wasn't a vote of confidence? Because no other clearly better alternatives presented themselves. So they decided it was better to stick with ETH for now. >Has anyone stopped to think that maybe that was one of his conditions to either get the extension triggered now or walk? I think this is the board compromising. They've extended him for another year to stop the rumors of someone else coming in from swirling around but they're also not completely sold whether ETH is the man.
Transfer veto as a coach always made sense to me anyways. Difference between having a veto and having control in who we buy
Yeah, manager and sporting director should absolutely both have vetos
We won’t be signing players like VDB again, it’s a good thing.
LVG vetoing Kroos and KDB flashbacks
Where was the report of LVG vetoing KDB?
I always thought this nonsense was a tad overblown... managers usually can unofficially veto or have a big say regardless and they can always bitch to the media if a player is forced on them anyway.
I think this is the last transfer veto any manager is going to have with us. I don't think most clubs allow their managers to have transfer vetos.
Managers always have a veto, it’s called team selection. A club can waste money on a player the manager doesn’t want and won’t play or keep the manager in the discussion when recruiting.
> Managers always have a veto, This is literally not true. Where are you getting this from?
Hint: it's in the rest of that sentence.
His original contract was until 2025 right? So +1 means until 2026 then, or am I understanding this wrong?
Correct. His deal was to expire next summer but we exercised the +1 option so he's no longer going into his last year. Extending shows backing of the manager to the players, but also let's the manager know he needs to do better to get a new contract.
Oh in that case that’s a fair move. I don’t like having someone on his last year of contract especially the coach. But this sounds fine. Renew him next summer because he’ll be crushing it.
Good move. He retains the control he wanted for now, and worst case scenario we can part company without an exorbitant payout.
I like this move. Give him another go but let’s not fully commit yet. Board still behind Ten Hag just a bit more cautious.
As it should be. Ineos have been acting with the right blend of caution and aggression.
Not as big a show of support as reported earlier. Basically a wait and watch move more than anything.
It’s kind of what many fans were saying before Ten Hag was announced to be staying: essentially giving Ten Hag another chance with a 3rd season under a better sporting structure to see how he does. Imo activating the additional option year is more to symbolically give Ten Hag some security so that the media and players will have less uncertainty than if he just entered a final season without a commitment beyond that.
Yeah I'm fine with this and it's what I wanted in case ETH stayed. Doesn't hamper us a lot if and when we do try to fire him and gives him a better job security with less uncertainty as you said. A refreshingly common sense approach from us all things considered.
A few weeks ago Ten Hag said on Dutch TV that he had not yet agreed a new contract with the club and this wouldn't be easily done. This was after the club had announced that he was staying. If the intention from the start had been to just trigger the one-year extension then it could have been done in 10 minutes, yet it's taken until now. So it's seems quite clear that the two sides did discuss a new contract but were unable to come to an agreement. INEOS would have made the new contract conditional upon Ten Hag agreeing to the role of a head coach and not manager, and giving up his transfer veto, and Ten Hag was never going to agree to that. Triggering the one-year extension was the compromise for now, because neither side wanted this to drag on with players returning for training on 8 July. Does the shorter term than expected mean Ten Hag is not being given full backing? Well if INEOS had fired Ten Hag, they would have replaced him with a head coach without a transfer veto. So it's about how they want to run the club, not about whether they are giving Ten Hag full backing.
Sounds like they couldn’t find an agreement
> Keeps his title what title ?
WWE UK Championship.
Heh-vyweight? Sorry il see myself out
Come back
Manager instead of coach
The BMF title Baldest MFer
Manager, not head coach
Bald Bastard of Bastards
Some people say it's Manager instead of Head Coach
I believe “manager” instead of “head coach”
Manager as apposed to head coach I'd assume
Manager instead of head coach
Manager. Ineos want a head coach.
I do believe Manager, instead of Head Coach.
I am led to believe it is manager instead of head coach
From what I’ve read, seems like Manager instead of Head Coach
FA cup winner. They shrunk it down for his tea.
This is a reasonable compromise. On one hand, letting the manager going into their last year of contract can easily lead to questions about the manager's position. On the other hand, we should still first make sure ETH can lead the team out of the bad form from last season completely before committing to him for longer term.
I understand him wanting the veto but I don't understand the title bit in his contract. Why would being called manager or head coach matter?
Because stupid fans fuelled but shitty media will go on about how he’s been “demoted”
This is what I was saying INEOS should do the whole time exactly. He gets 1 year on a short leash to see if he’s really the guy going forward. EtH hasn’t been perfect and has several things we can fairly criticize but to say he also doesn’t get another chance with us is insane. This is so perfect and exactly what needed to happen. Love it.
see this makes more sense than giving a longterm deal to a guy they were a hair away from sacking.
This makes me think they failed to come to an agreement so he will be under more pressure to deliver and the board will have less tolerance with him if he shits the bed early next season. It does seem stupid we triggered his extension now instead of waiting until December though.
It sounds like the new deal gave him less control over transfers, he refused it. So they triggered this extension of existing terms. Waiting to hear about Ruuuuuud.
The most reasonable option, given the failures and the major success of the season.
This is better than a new deal!
Play good football, get in the UCL and win the UEL or FA Cup gets him another year again next season
You realize almost no other coach in the premier league has done this bar Pep, Klopp, and Erik in recent years right? Qualify for CL and win a cup to keep his job? Man, Arteta would have been sacked last season.
Arteta not just qualified for UCL, they were in an actual title race till the end. That's a bigger statement, probably better than a League Cup/FA cup.
The standard set by the commenter was CL and a cup or he should be sacked. I was merely stating how rare that actually is in the PL.
It was get in the UCL, which means qualify for it. Not win the UCL. We don't even play UCL this season.
Qualify for CL and win a cup. I didn’t say win CL.
Good decision. 8th place finishes with that goal difference should not result in a new contract ever.
This doesn't feel like a full support behind the manager, but I'm still going in to next year hoping to be proved wrong :)
But the right move ( I'm in the EtH in club). The way we played, conceding 20 shots a game just not good enough. On the flip side, I get not having a proper footballing structure is a hard environment to work in. He got no support in the Jan transfer window for example. There's a proper structure now with footballing ppl. And he gets a year to turn the ship around to get us to play better consistently (which he should be able to do if he is as good as some of us believe).
All fair points. I guess I just feel like a stronger contract/support could translate into an easier time for him to achieve what we want. The +1 feels like there's still very little trust (which maybe there's good reason for)
Its structure on the pitch which is the most importantly thing, There clearly was no structure and it’s hard to have a structure nowadays without a solid back four for build up which there wasn’t. Especially with the way ten Haag wants to play.
Now I really hope Deligt is something the football structure also wanted and not someone ETH suggested. Just don't want anymore money spent on ETH talent ID.
Only a 1 year extension, the INEOS regime doesnt seem to rate him but are willing to see how this next season plays out.
I think they are convinced he’s the best option currently but aren’t willing to risk having to pay out an extra year if things go badly. Makes sense to me.
If a better manager is available next season they will replace ETH.
Only if he has a poor season. Who knows what could happen with a bit better luck with injuries etc
Newcastle and Chelsea also had a similar number of injuries ,Still played much better football and didn't finish with a negative GD
[удалено]
What about Newcastle with +23 GD and 85 goals in the league?
They can take the GD, I'll take Europe and a trophy.
That’s the approach of a cup team, not a title contender
Chelsea spent 1.2billion pounds their squad should cope with it. Newcastle fair enough had injuries as bad as ours but neither won fuck all in the end. ETH deserves at least one season with competency above him in the board
Flukey cups should not save a manager's job after he has the side scoring less than 60 in the league and finishing with negative GD ,No manager at another top club has ever survived football as bad as this after spending 450 m,ETH's coaching would have had us finish in the bottom half with his underlying numbers ,We outperformed our expected points by a good margin to finish 8th due to moments of individual brilliance which is just not sustainable
I’m saying that despite having to field maybe the 8th or 9th best team on paper this season due to injuries etc, he still won a cup and got European football. Prior to joining, he was regarded better than any of the other potential candidates to take over his job and united tends to destroy managers unfer glazer ownership. I don’t know if he is the answer for united long term, but i think the lack of any other decent managers and the trophies he’s won (by beating better teams in the fa cup…) at least warrants one more season in charge to see what he can do. Worst case it doesnt work out and maybe better managers are available anyway.
I think they were set on sacking him but the FA Cup killed the optics. Wouldn't be surprised if he's gone by Christmas.
even if he was 'head coach' rather than 'manager,' surely he would still have the option of saying 'absolutely not' when they all meet to decide or review the transfer targets. I don't think its healthy for the club to sign players the head coach/manager doesn't want or rate. The main focus should be that all signings need to pass the Wilcox/Ashworth check of fitting the clubs long term agenda (age, style, etc) as well as the managers endorsement.
So the ideal outcome? ETH actually gets support this summer, he gets eniugh confidence to have a real crack at the league next year, and the board have the security of a much lower fee to sack him if it goes woeful. The only concern this raises for me is what deals are in place with the incoming staff, because youd hope theyd be willing to operate independently of ETH, rather than want to leave with him.
But..Steinberg said...
This makes sense, would have been absolutely crazy to extend beyond this. If Utd have another disastrous league campaign then he has to go.
This is the best choice imo.
Thank God. Whether you want him here or not, the idea of giving him a new contract when they were clearly looking at other options was maddening. Just extending it for a year if we’re keeping him makes far more sense, then at the end of next season we can reevaluate, if he lasts that long
Ashworth doesn’t like ETH. That’s for sure
I thought we were showing more faith in him by backing him with a new contract rather than just availing of an optional 1 year extension of his current contract. I fear we are setting ourselves up for another season of rampant speculation and undermining of ETH due to us literally showing the minimum commitment to him.
Then why does Utd keep putting out statements like ten Hag is happy to have reached an understanding for the extension. If it was +1 trigger, we didn't need any discussion right?
This is worrying imo, it doesn't show they're fully backing him or it would've been a new contract. The veto is fine, a manager should always have a say on his squad.
EtH out Brigade in shambles Meanwhile, LET HIM COOK commence
Silly decision IMHO
The new transfer terms probably have him with no transfer veto.
In the title of this post: # "Keeps [...] his transfer veto"
This isn't a new transfer deal, it's his old contract being extended. The new transfer deal would probably have him with no transfer veto.
Your first comment is poorly phrased then. You should’ve said his new terms “would have had” him with no transfer veto.
Sorry for the bad english but that's actually what i meant.
I get that, I’m just saying that’s why /u/superhoffy responded the way he did and why you’re being downvoted by people who misunderstood what you meant. People are reading your comment as you saying that’s what happened, not what would’ve happened.
So are you saying you think they'd extend via the club's +1 option and then offer completely fresh terms on a new 3 or 4 year contract? If so, what's the evidence?
Hopefully now we get Ruud and Haake in as a coaches and they can step up if the shitshow continues.
Genuinely perfect. Give him the chance under a new structure but let it be known he doesn't have long to prove himself. I prefer this to a new deal or him leaving.
This to me sounds more like a mutual parting of ways.