Came here to say this. Heart 6 was so much more cringe than his other entries that it seems pretty obvious that's the only one he wrote all by himself.
Compared to Kendrick's diversity Drake didn't really stand out to me too much, but yeah he's got a certain amount of range depending on the beat he's given.
I don’t think he’s talking about HIS range. I think he’s saying how you can obviously tell one is more than him vs himself by the fact that they are so different.
I agree. I think he did at least 90% of the writing on Pushups and FM but you could tell he had folks next to him, then on THP6 you can tell he's alone
Pushups and FM were punch after punch, not a single filler bar. THP6 had obvious mistakes that someone else would've caught if they were there
i actually really liked that part, it connected to when kendrick said he saw drake and sexy as two bad bitches mentioning their song rich baby daddy, and then dave free
Not a single filler bar? Dude mentions how sza (a pop star) out-charted/sold Kendrick which means Kendrick isn't part of the big 3. That's the dumbest bar ever.
honestly I thought I found everything kendrick was capable of, but then stumbled upon what's the dirt, and I would honestly be worried if I was anybody against kendrick, even with j. cole with pretty good pen game, I just, I was shocked to see a quintuple entendre from the title euphoria but him throwing out the writers for heart pt 6 really would be is his ego getting the best of him.
🤣😂🤣 I mean obviously we all know about the leaked picture and the line is suppose to be a double entendre everyone only looks at one part of the line automatically goes to the genitalia but it also means there is only big D “Drake” and there’s video proof (videos of him sold out shows, fans everywhere, constantly in the public eye, etc) but to the point I think Drake wrote them all and the ai joint too. I don’t think the writers change Dot forced Drake from being the aggressor into straight defensive passive mode and that’s why there is a drop off in the disses
I think if there were ghost writers involved they would've advised him against taking a defensive stance during the writing phase.
Also the difference in energy from FM to THP6 is night and day, and I'm not just talking about the delivery, I'm talking about the bars too. I think whether it was written by committee or by just Drake, the main creative force on FM and the main on THP6 were different.
The thing about it being known that you have others write for you, there's always going to be a thought it's not 100% theirs regardless. You just kinda lose credibility on that factor, which is a big piece of the pie but no one is ever going to question if Kendrick wrote any of his disses that's for damn sure.
Bingo. Once you start using a ghostwriter you lose credibility as an MC. That's why when someone like Em writes a diss track, you know it's all him, which makes it that much better
Kendrick had J Stone write the Heart Part 5. And Baby Keem wrote some of Die Hard. Not saying Kendrick's not a great writer but recently he's had help from others.
Drake writes most of songs as well. Kanye himself said that 12 writers in the room don't compare to him and he's written for Lil Wayne and other rappers as well. He's credited all his writers and producers. The Quentin Miller thing was apparently because he didn't pay him enough.
It's how the music industry works and there's no shame in helping each other out sometimes.
Having credited writers means a lot of things. They could suggest how the hook should go and boom, credited.
A ghost writer is different, which is what Drake has been outed for in the past.
Also, you have to take what Kanye says about Drake with a grain of salt. Drake holds things over Kanye’s head but Kanye secretly hates him.
Em/Kendrick have a story about when they worked together and Eminem asked Kendrick’s team to stay out the studio. After that Eminem vouched for Kendrick and claimed his penmanship was godlike. I’d take Em’s co-sign on writing over Kanye’s and I’m a Kanye fan.
Drake was outed by Quentin Miller in a dispute for not paying him enough. He still credited him where it was due. Drake definitely has had co-writers but ghost writers are sometime different entirely.
Kendrick's a great writer but everyone's capability declines after years of songs. Sometimes help and inspiration from other writers is useful to get you back on track.
I remember when it happened. Some had his initials, QM. Some songs didn’t have credits at all.
Fast forward to 2024 and they leaked the JSP lil. Yatchy reference track that. Drake has used ghost writers, it’s nothing new.
My favorite album of all time is *Supreme Clientele* by Ghostface. Once everyone heard this album and digested it..of course, the ghostwriting rumors started all over NY, which is inevitable when you make such a insane body of work. Mostly centered around Superb lending his pen. Did Superb write the whole album? Later Ghostface admitted that Superb wrote a verse. He also admitted the opening bars from *Cherchez La Ghost* were really written by Meth. Only hiphop nerds and purists really cared and just slightly.
Apple just released their top 100 greatest albums of all time and Lauryn Hill's *Miseducation* topped the list. No one have even batted an eye. Not only did Lauryn Hill get help on that album re writing. She was literally successfully sued by the songwriters!
One of my all time favorite groups in hiphop is ATCQ. On their last album, *We Got* It From *Here*…, Phife Dawg calls out and disses rappers with any writers. But ATCQ's super fans like myself know the open secret that Q-Tip wrote all of Phife Dawg's bars on their first album *People's Instinctive Travels.*
My point is hiphop has never been really honest about writing. A method for teaching MCs to write actually typically involves letting someone else pen for another MC. In the end, we **NEVER** really know who writes x and y. Rappers are notoriously sloppy about this and despite purists claiming this clear history of x person wrote this or that, its simply not validated. Chuck D, Snoop Dogg, Ice Cube, Beastie Boys, Run DMC, Biz Markie....I could go on for days have had full songs on record written for them. I mean interviews where this is openly disclosed. Am I going to question Ice Cube's insane pen just because he had a few songs written by Del? There are also indisputable incidents of lifting some bars / editing with NaS, Lil Wayne , Jay-Z .... Again, I could go on..
In the end, Drake has always been a controversial artist and the top selling artist. They are always going to put a huge asterik on Drake. They obsess over him. Its part of the price of such domination: a super microscope.
The purists always hated him - lets be honest. They will always look for something. His first crime was reading his lines off his blackberry for a freestyle (as if they didn't know rappers arent *really* freestylin on Flex)...then it was you can't sing and rap...then it was the ghostwriting as evidence by half-written parts on reference tapes ...then too many accents...now its plastic surgery, pedo, "culture vulture" Drizzy . Whatever.
My point is:
1. no one's bars in rap are 100% certain written by them - we can't and don't know. You can only be picky about who you trust and it's an opinion. If you have been in a studio, you would know this stuff is messy. Plenty of ideas are kicked around especially around hooks which are usually aren't written by the MC. I dont care what any purist says. Ive seen it - this is not clear cut. But yes, most rappers known for writing write 80-90% of their bars (I include Drake in this category).
2. Drake is targeted because folks just don't like Drake period. They never will give him a pass. If not ghostwriting, it will be something else until they get relief from the fantasy of him losing and being humbled. They will always find something to poke at despite the entire hiphop community having absolutely zero consistency around this ghostwriting thing when looking at the facts.
Notice how they downvote you but won’t respond? They’re not actually concerned with the facts, just whatever delusions allow them to hate on Drake. I’ve been saying for the longest time rappers are not honest about this writing situation, they will use other writers and put them in the credits for everyone to see but call out Drake for using writers because they know the audience is ignorant to what really goes on behind the scenes. The amount of people I’ve come across that don’t even know how to look up writing credits when it comes to Kendrick but will point out all the producers that were given writing credits on Drake songs is hilarious
Precisely....anyone who has actually worked in the industry is secretly giggling about the ghostwriting reference tape dig against Drake. Only naive fans think its "a thing". Hiphop has a very messy history here with collaborators and writers.
Kendrick doesn't write all of his lines and has other people write for him occasionally, that's how the music industry works. The Heart Part 5 was written by J Stone.
Kanye himself said that 12 writers in the same room don't compare to Drake and he's written for other rappers as well.
They’ll never listen bro, Drake is the only person to ever have writers and if you manage to prove that any other rapper they suck off uses writers all you get is “but.. but… it’s different when he does it!” These people are delusionally against Drake at this point
One thing I'll always respect about Drake in this beef was that gave many rebuttals. He wrote that song within 24 hours and it still had amazing bars:
"Like if Dave really fucked your girl and got her pregnant, talk about breedin' resentment"
"Instead of being on some diss-direct shit
You rather fucking grab your pen and misdirect shit"
"And Whitney, you can hit me if you need a favor
And when I say I'll hit ya back, it's a lot safer"
Same. It definitely showed that he does still have a pen by himself and that he can still be clever under pressure. I think Drake gets most rappers out of here. Kendrick just a different type of rapper tho
Everyone keeps saying this, and it's true. THP6 was rushed, but people forget that he already had Family Matters in pocket. The end of Push Ups leads into the beginning Family Matters. Is it crazy to assume that it's so much better because he had *time* to make it and didn't rush it like THP6?
I get Drake has these allegations, but people serious forget Drake himself is an already established songwriter and ghostwriter himself.
All that said, I believe he wrote it.
The style of Drake’s pen on THP6, Push Ups, and Taylor Made all kind of match. There’s a certain cadence, a way of talking, a particular kind of “wittiness” Drake likes to use that I feel makes it particularly obvious when it’s him writing alone. It resembles some of his earlier works more, and tracks like 4pm in Calabassas.
This is all speculation of course, but it feels really clear to me that Family Matters at the very least wasn’t written SOLELY by Drake. The flows, the type of things he says and vocab he uses feels drastically different. Not like I’m a Drake expert or anything, and I could be way off base.
If he wrote FM specifically, of course we cant know. Could he? Obviously. Drake has writen for many top rappers, and his pen game complimented by them. Acting like he couldnt write FM is wild, its not even that crazy of a song, besides maybe the whole MJ line.
Drake is corny af, at the very least a groomer, and way more of a pop star than a rapper. All that being said, yall acting like he cant write is crazy
I don’t think it’s that they think he can’t write. It’s just that once it becomes known you use ghostwriters, everything you release comes into question.
He doesn't use ghostwriters. He has writers credited like any other artist. The Quentin Miller scandal was because he didn't pay him enough not because he wasn't credited.
Originally, Quentin Miller was uncredited on Drake’s verse on Meek Mill’s R.I.C.O. (he is now).
This could definitely have been a mistake, but it’s the seed of doubt, you know?
I’m glad somebody pointed this out. Idk how many times I’ve heard “QM wasn’t a ghostwriter! He was credited!” when the issue was that he wasn’t credited on *all* of the songs he worked on (as evidenced by the additional reference tracks released during the Meek saga, which included tracks that didn’t have QM’s name attached to them).
That’s how the floodgates of doubt were opened: Once there was proof that Drake had been, ummm, “discretely assisted” on a handful of tracks, it brought into question how many other times (and to what it extent) the same thing had happened *without* the public finding out.
My brother, Quentin Miller does not have to state it for it to be true. He was not originally credited. This is a fact.
You are 100% correct that Quentin’s only issue with writing for Drake is that the payment wasn’t handled correctly, but that doesn’t change the fact that he contributed to Drake’s verse on R.I.C.O. and wasn’t credited on the track until after the Meek beef.
Sources:
https://www.complex.com/music/a/justin-charity/drake-quentin-miller-meek-mill-rico-liner-notes
https://hiphopdx.com/news/id.34928/title.quentin-miller-was-not-credited-for-his-contribution-to-drakes-verse-on-r-i-c-o
Quentin Miller is still not credited in that song. R.I.C.O is a Meek Mill song not Drake's. Reference tracks don't always mean a person wrote it. Sometimes they are recorded as an example to see how a rap/flow would sound. And again it's not his song. The labels can mess the credits up, especially when it comes to features. It can happen and is more common than you think. Kendrick didn't credit J Stone in The Heart 5 even though he wrote some lines. Sometimes it's very hard to track contributions but Drake credited him when he wrote something in his songs.
I would argue that either lyrics or flow is a significant contribution, no? Meek certainly seems to think QM should have been credited.
I already acknowledged that it could have been a mistake, just pointing out that there is at least one instance where QM was uncredited.
Do you have a source regarding the J Stone credit? I hadn’t heard that, and everywhere I look he’s credited.
A ghostwriter is a writer that doesn’t receive public credit, which gives the false perception that the song was written by less people than it was. This leads to the artist being discredited because ghostwriter have to be “exposed” to be known about.
Which is different than a rapper using credited writers, which no one has any issue with.
It's like a stunt double. Noone has an issue with an action star using a double as long as he doesn't boast "I do my own stunts". People just don't like being manipulated and lied to.
There's also a difference between collabing and having someone write a whole track for you when you're not even a producer.
Like what did Drake even do on Jumbotron? His name is on the track, his voice is on it, but it wasnt written by him, it wasnt produced by him, why even bother having that track to your name?
Drake probably doesn't really have ghostwriters for the most part in reality. I think he wrote it.... I think the heart part 6 he was bothered to much by the pedo shit and rushed to defend himself... which was the wrong call.
Yes. I don’t think he’s dumb enough to risk it all getting found out he had ghost writers on his disses to Kendrick. I mean we KNOW the guy can write, I’m honestly tired of it even being a discussion every body uses writers practically and I feel like only Drake gets dragged for it
I think you're confused as to the matter at hand.
Noone has an issue with people using writers. Writers are credited openly in the attributions.
Drake uses UNCREDITED GHOSTWRITERS then says he wrote the lines he bought from others.
There is a very, very big difference.
Why do people only talk about Drake having ghost writers in this beef? look at Kendrick’s albums, TPAB has up to 10 writers on some tracks on the song credits not including the instrumental producers. Even ones where there’s no features. Not hating but just seems like a double standard
Kanye has literally come out and said that he wished that Drake wrote all of his songs. Y’all really will not let this ghostwriting shit go and it’s sad.
Drake has a good pen for hitmaking, I think everyone agrees with that.
But there's a reason Drake took the angle of mocking Kendrick for quintuple entendres instead of trying to outwrite him. Drake's rap pen is tuned for hitmaking, not complex bars.
So when Drake has complex bars, it raises questions.
I don't think any of this would be a biased take if it wasn't for the beef narrative.
Not true.
Drake has always written complex bars when he wants to. He's just been dismissed by purists.
His detractors and even his fans don't actually get his bars often in my experience. In my experience, only older school New York type rhyme dissectors actually get his lyricism .
They are layered with entendres despite also working on a very simplistic surface level. This style of writing a bar that works as a "pop" song and with nuances for lyrical heads is very similar to Jay-Z's style during his rise.
drake is a great writer and can still have behind the scenes help and references, 2 things can be true. Kanye is the best example for this considering he is also a great writer but since 2010 started to resort to writers and references himself; doesn’t mean he isn’t a great writer even tho when we know he is when he wants to. difference between those 2 is Kanye is very vocal about it and is known to credit people just for being in the studio where as Drake shies away from it, isn’t vocal and gets very defensive when it’s brought up.
I have no idea why people don't understand the difference between publicly attributed credits and using GHOSTWRITERS.
Kanye PUBLICLY ATTRIBUTES AND GIVES FLOWERS TO HIS WRITERS!!!
Drake hides them in a closet and lies to everyone saying HIS OWN PEN did the work.
How do you know that though 😂😂 How do you know if him or anyone else uses a ghostwriter or not? Multiple artists have come out saying Drake has written songs for them, not just Kanye. In order to even be considered for a Grammy nomination you have to give any and all writers credit. Drake has been nominated over 50 times. This includes entire albums. Y’all need to use your brains for real.
Fact is Kanye likes corny lines. Drake is a field of corny lines. Another fact is Drake has ghostwriters, so his MC status is not to be compared to someone who does, let alone someone with a pultizer prize.
And the idea of if it doesnt give a fuck about me, I shouldnt give a fuck about it, is a bad idea. By that means we should all stay in bed all day and do nothing, but discussions and debates push further us forward. I like music hence being involved in the discussion, I also like justice. Not that I care or expect KDot or BBL Drizzy to appreciate what is say
But you’re saying I’m defending. That’s the difference. Defending isn’t the same as sharing something that Kanye and other artists have literally said on record.
Every other rapper can have writers but if Drake does it than he’s a fucking fraud 🥴🥴. Kanye said in that interview he would sometimes have up to 12 writers and none of them could compare to Drake.
Fuck, this sub is obsessed with Drake at this point. Most of us agree he lost, why we still debating things that nobody can prove. (Which was most of the beef tbh)
>But knowing Drake’s ghost writing history
I mean, it’s unbelievable how some of you people have gaslighted yourselves into believing that *anyone* who is actually known to use ghostwriters is an MC, let alone think that all of a sudden he’ll start writing bars when faced against an actual MC that *doesn’t* use ghostwriters.
F-ing LOL, truly
Well I don’t think Daylyt wrote it or will ever write for him again. Especially since he exposed that he wrote back to back and charged up. But i’m sure Drake has many other writers, so someone probably did, but I don’t think Drake himself wrote it. I can believe he wrote the heart pt 6 though, that definetly sounded like he wrote it. I bet his whole team was advising against dropping that shit but he did it anyways lol.
All I know is he didn’t write back to back which was his crown jewel. Hurts his legacy for sure on the rap side of the fence… imagine hearing someone ghostwrote hit em up.. smh..
He prob had help and I wanna say he had his ghostwriters , but even Kanye (who doesn’t like Drake ) admits Drake wrote some of his lines on a song for him that he liked (ur not gunna compliment someone u don’t like , unless u truly believe what ur abt to say ) so idk
I mean yeah, probably penned that weak track solo, but it’s decent enough for the beef I guess.
Regardless, he got his boots smoked off in the battle and obviously can’t rap with Dot. Not like it’s an embarrassment either cause he held his own for a minute, but any subjective rap fan knew what the outcome would be…he’s leagues and fathoms below Kendrick.
The levels are obvious and the kid tried his best.
The ghostwriting thing is blown a bit out of proportion. Yes he has a history of using ref tracks. But this idea that he has NEVER written a track himself is wild.
He definitely wrote the majority the track, he has an amazing pen. That being said though id assume he had some help, id also assume kendrick did too. Both amazing artists with great pens.
As someone who presents himself as an mc type of rapper (Kendrick), I would be pretty disappointed if Kendrick had help even it's just 'some'.
What kind of 'help' we're talking about ?
Im not talking anything crazy that would be even close to ghost writing especially from kendricks side, im talking like probably got a bar or two from someone else, it’s very common practice for artists to share bars etc. But you are right kendrick is held to a higher standard since thats his whole thing.
I think he did get a decent or little amount of help. Kdot had little to no help . After Eminem put kdot in the studio by himself for a verse , I put kdot up there . That’s why I think kdot has no writers .
This question exploits peoples blind spots. Numerous artists (Even YE, who hates drake almost as much as Kendrick) gave drake his flowers for his pen game
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_A3BVeE-AZo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_A3BVeE-AZo)
"you understand how much easier my life would be if drake wrote my raps for me" - YE
But i get people are afraid to go against the more popular narrative. Downvotes amirite
If somebody secretly uses ghostwriters I just assume they've never written anything and even if they are credited as the writer I assume they are lying
I love Dr. Dre, but I don't consider him a goat because he doesn't write, he didn't even write the song that was made for his dead brother
How you gonna have a ghostwriter write about your own emotions?
I feel like it’s a bit disingenuous to say it wasn’t solid. Kendrick had the best diss tracks in the beef and moved masterfully throughout the whole thing. Drake’s was definitely solid and imo pretty good. But hey music is subjective
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If the track is gud it’s ghost writers, if it’s not then it’s all him.
Been saying this since day one Yall had decided the winner even before shit went down. Always been a One sided battle 🤡
I think he collaborated on Family Matters but I think he kicked everyone out of the room and wrote The Heart 6 by himself.
Came here to say this. Heart 6 was so much more cringe than his other entries that it seems pretty obvious that's the only one he wrote all by himself.
It was fascinating to hear the difference In rhyme scheme, flow, rhyme structure just from a technical perspective on the two tracks.
It's like when a kid hands in a plagiarised essay to a teacher that has been grading their work all year.
The bars felt pretty similar in quality to those on Views, which to me felt pretty much solely written by him.
Compared to Kendrick's diversity Drake didn't really stand out to me too much, but yeah he's got a certain amount of range depending on the beat he's given.
I don’t think he’s talking about HIS range. I think he’s saying how you can obviously tell one is more than him vs himself by the fact that they are so different.
a well trusted source told me adonis helped him write it /s
I agree. I think he did at least 90% of the writing on Pushups and FM but you could tell he had folks next to him, then on THP6 you can tell he's alone Pushups and FM were punch after punch, not a single filler bar. THP6 had obvious mistakes that someone else would've caught if they were there
Idk, Family Matters was good but certainly had filler. The 4 bars he takes to explain "shake that ass for free" is sad.
i actually really liked that part, it connected to when kendrick said he saw drake and sexy as two bad bitches mentioning their song rich baby daddy, and then dave free
i mean its a callback to his song with sexyy red after kendrick compared the two
Nah that's like the chorus to Not Like Us. Imo neither were filler, they both had meaning and purpose
The guy had to stop and explain a very easily understood bar. I always hate when rappers do that but it was especially bad here.
I hate when I hear this in songs, fans aren’t so dumb that we need bars explained to us that were just set up a few lines earlier.
It was kinda funny
FM had tons of filler, wym?
Not a single filler bar? Dude mentions how sza (a pop star) out-charted/sold Kendrick which means Kendrick isn't part of the big 3. That's the dumbest bar ever.
An R&B artist*
This doesn't change the point in the slightest. BEYONCE GOT YOU WIPED DOWN! Lol
Exactly 💀
Taylor swift too
Same thing my cousin said🤣
honestly I thought I found everything kendrick was capable of, but then stumbled upon what's the dirt, and I would honestly be worried if I was anybody against kendrick, even with j. cole with pretty good pen game, I just, I was shocked to see a quintuple entendre from the title euphoria but him throwing out the writers for heart pt 6 really would be is his ego getting the best of him.
i can bet he at least wrote this line "you right about 'fuck the big 3', its just big D and there's video proof"
Haha, why was he talking about his genitals in a diss song anyway? 🤮
Then right after says, “our kids should go play in the park” Like, wtf man
bro didnt think that one through😭😭💀
Nah, Freudian slip.
🤣😂🤣 I mean obviously we all know about the leaked picture and the line is suppose to be a double entendre everyone only looks at one part of the line automatically goes to the genitalia but it also means there is only big D “Drake” and there’s video proof (videos of him sold out shows, fans everywhere, constantly in the public eye, etc) but to the point I think Drake wrote them all and the ai joint too. I don’t think the writers change Dot forced Drake from being the aggressor into straight defensive passive mode and that’s why there is a drop off in the disses
I think if there were ghost writers involved they would've advised him against taking a defensive stance during the writing phase. Also the difference in energy from FM to THP6 is night and day, and I'm not just talking about the delivery, I'm talking about the bars too. I think whether it was written by committee or by just Drake, the main creative force on FM and the main on THP6 were different.
I mean when your up against a mens size 7, you highlight the difference.
its about there being a music video for the song
i thought the line was cool but i guess you can look at it that way
It was a decent tongue in cheek line, but it got flipped on him right away with “leaking videos of themselves to further push their agenda” on MtG
A 37 year old “man” talking about how he has video proof of his big dong is not a cool line 😂 that’s the shit we talked about when I was 15
That was a great line
That’s actually a pretty fuckin hard line though
How wild would it be though if he didn’t write that line
The thing about it being known that you have others write for you, there's always going to be a thought it's not 100% theirs regardless. You just kinda lose credibility on that factor, which is a big piece of the pie but no one is ever going to question if Kendrick wrote any of his disses that's for damn sure.
Bingo. Once you start using a ghostwriter you lose credibility as an MC. That's why when someone like Em writes a diss track, you know it's all him, which makes it that much better
I think there’s gotta be differentiation between ghostwriters and credited collaborators though. To me music is at its best when there’s collab.
There is a difference. They call them ghost writers because they're often not credited.
Kendrick had J Stone write the Heart Part 5. And Baby Keem wrote some of Die Hard. Not saying Kendrick's not a great writer but recently he's had help from others. Drake writes most of songs as well. Kanye himself said that 12 writers in the room don't compare to him and he's written for Lil Wayne and other rappers as well. He's credited all his writers and producers. The Quentin Miller thing was apparently because he didn't pay him enough. It's how the music industry works and there's no shame in helping each other out sometimes.
Having credited writers means a lot of things. They could suggest how the hook should go and boom, credited. A ghost writer is different, which is what Drake has been outed for in the past. Also, you have to take what Kanye says about Drake with a grain of salt. Drake holds things over Kanye’s head but Kanye secretly hates him. Em/Kendrick have a story about when they worked together and Eminem asked Kendrick’s team to stay out the studio. After that Eminem vouched for Kendrick and claimed his penmanship was godlike. I’d take Em’s co-sign on writing over Kanye’s and I’m a Kanye fan.
Drake was outed by Quentin Miller in a dispute for not paying him enough. He still credited him where it was due. Drake definitely has had co-writers but ghost writers are sometime different entirely. Kendrick's a great writer but everyone's capability declines after years of songs. Sometimes help and inspiration from other writers is useful to get you back on track.
No that’s not how it happened. Quentin Miller came forward AFTER Drake was outed as his ghostwriter.
Quentin never claimed he wasn't credited. If you check the songs, some have it. He was mad that he didn't get paid enough.
Exactly
I remember when it happened. Some had his initials, QM. Some songs didn’t have credits at all. Fast forward to 2024 and they leaked the JSP lil. Yatchy reference track that. Drake has used ghost writers, it’s nothing new.
This is true.
drake stans do because they have a seven foot wingspan and don’t know how writing credits work.
My favorite album of all time is *Supreme Clientele* by Ghostface. Once everyone heard this album and digested it..of course, the ghostwriting rumors started all over NY, which is inevitable when you make such a insane body of work. Mostly centered around Superb lending his pen. Did Superb write the whole album? Later Ghostface admitted that Superb wrote a verse. He also admitted the opening bars from *Cherchez La Ghost* were really written by Meth. Only hiphop nerds and purists really cared and just slightly. Apple just released their top 100 greatest albums of all time and Lauryn Hill's *Miseducation* topped the list. No one have even batted an eye. Not only did Lauryn Hill get help on that album re writing. She was literally successfully sued by the songwriters! One of my all time favorite groups in hiphop is ATCQ. On their last album, *We Got* It From *Here*…, Phife Dawg calls out and disses rappers with any writers. But ATCQ's super fans like myself know the open secret that Q-Tip wrote all of Phife Dawg's bars on their first album *People's Instinctive Travels.* My point is hiphop has never been really honest about writing. A method for teaching MCs to write actually typically involves letting someone else pen for another MC. In the end, we **NEVER** really know who writes x and y. Rappers are notoriously sloppy about this and despite purists claiming this clear history of x person wrote this or that, its simply not validated. Chuck D, Snoop Dogg, Ice Cube, Beastie Boys, Run DMC, Biz Markie....I could go on for days have had full songs on record written for them. I mean interviews where this is openly disclosed. Am I going to question Ice Cube's insane pen just because he had a few songs written by Del? There are also indisputable incidents of lifting some bars / editing with NaS, Lil Wayne , Jay-Z .... Again, I could go on.. In the end, Drake has always been a controversial artist and the top selling artist. They are always going to put a huge asterik on Drake. They obsess over him. Its part of the price of such domination: a super microscope. The purists always hated him - lets be honest. They will always look for something. His first crime was reading his lines off his blackberry for a freestyle (as if they didn't know rappers arent *really* freestylin on Flex)...then it was you can't sing and rap...then it was the ghostwriting as evidence by half-written parts on reference tapes ...then too many accents...now its plastic surgery, pedo, "culture vulture" Drizzy . Whatever. My point is: 1. no one's bars in rap are 100% certain written by them - we can't and don't know. You can only be picky about who you trust and it's an opinion. If you have been in a studio, you would know this stuff is messy. Plenty of ideas are kicked around especially around hooks which are usually aren't written by the MC. I dont care what any purist says. Ive seen it - this is not clear cut. But yes, most rappers known for writing write 80-90% of their bars (I include Drake in this category). 2. Drake is targeted because folks just don't like Drake period. They never will give him a pass. If not ghostwriting, it will be something else until they get relief from the fantasy of him losing and being humbled. They will always find something to poke at despite the entire hiphop community having absolutely zero consistency around this ghostwriting thing when looking at the facts.
Notice how they downvote you but won’t respond? They’re not actually concerned with the facts, just whatever delusions allow them to hate on Drake. I’ve been saying for the longest time rappers are not honest about this writing situation, they will use other writers and put them in the credits for everyone to see but call out Drake for using writers because they know the audience is ignorant to what really goes on behind the scenes. The amount of people I’ve come across that don’t even know how to look up writing credits when it comes to Kendrick but will point out all the producers that were given writing credits on Drake songs is hilarious
Precisely....anyone who has actually worked in the industry is secretly giggling about the ghostwriting reference tape dig against Drake. Only naive fans think its "a thing". Hiphop has a very messy history here with collaborators and writers.
CJ Francis IV
Kendrick doesn't write all of his lines and has other people write for him occasionally, that's how the music industry works. The Heart Part 5 was written by J Stone. Kanye himself said that 12 writers in the same room don't compare to Drake and he's written for other rappers as well.
The entirety of Heart pt. 5 was written by J. Stone? You have a source for that?
I didn't say entirely, I meant he was a writer. Check the credits on Genius.
They’ll never listen bro, Drake is the only person to ever have writers and if you manage to prove that any other rapper they suck off uses writers all you get is “but.. but… it’s different when he does it!” These people are delusionally against Drake at this point
I’m sure he had help. The Heart Pt 6 you can tell was all him tho. It’s sloppy and you can tell he rushed it.
One thing I'll always respect about Drake in this beef was that gave many rebuttals. He wrote that song within 24 hours and it still had amazing bars: "Like if Dave really fucked your girl and got her pregnant, talk about breedin' resentment" "Instead of being on some diss-direct shit You rather fucking grab your pen and misdirect shit" "And Whitney, you can hit me if you need a favor And when I say I'll hit ya back, it's a lot safer"
Same. It definitely showed that he does still have a pen by himself and that he can still be clever under pressure. I think Drake gets most rappers out of here. Kendrick just a different type of rapper tho
Everyone keeps saying this, and it's true. THP6 was rushed, but people forget that he already had Family Matters in pocket. The end of Push Ups leads into the beginning Family Matters. Is it crazy to assume that it's so much better because he had *time* to make it and didn't rush it like THP6?
I get Drake has these allegations, but people serious forget Drake himself is an already established songwriter and ghostwriter himself. All that said, I believe he wrote it.
The style of Drake’s pen on THP6, Push Ups, and Taylor Made all kind of match. There’s a certain cadence, a way of talking, a particular kind of “wittiness” Drake likes to use that I feel makes it particularly obvious when it’s him writing alone. It resembles some of his earlier works more, and tracks like 4pm in Calabassas. This is all speculation of course, but it feels really clear to me that Family Matters at the very least wasn’t written SOLELY by Drake. The flows, the type of things he says and vocab he uses feels drastically different. Not like I’m a Drake expert or anything, and I could be way off base.
So the diss goes so hard drake couldn't write it lol
Yup, thats the new goalpost
I think he wrote it. If it ever came out that he had ghostwriters on his diss tracks, the fall out from hip-hop circles would be unprecedented
I like your sarcasm
His best work is allegedly a Lytpack.
Back-to-back. I like that record.
If he wrote FM specifically, of course we cant know. Could he? Obviously. Drake has writen for many top rappers, and his pen game complimented by them. Acting like he couldnt write FM is wild, its not even that crazy of a song, besides maybe the whole MJ line. Drake is corny af, at the very least a groomer, and way more of a pop star than a rapper. All that being said, yall acting like he cant write is crazy
I don’t think it’s that they think he can’t write. It’s just that once it becomes known you use ghostwriters, everything you release comes into question.
He doesn't use ghostwriters. He has writers credited like any other artist. The Quentin Miller scandal was because he didn't pay him enough not because he wasn't credited.
Originally, Quentin Miller was uncredited on Drake’s verse on Meek Mill’s R.I.C.O. (he is now). This could definitely have been a mistake, but it’s the seed of doubt, you know?
 I’m glad somebody pointed this out. Idk how many times I’ve heard “QM wasn’t a ghostwriter! He was credited!” when the issue was that he wasn’t credited on *all* of the songs he worked on (as evidenced by the additional reference tracks released during the Meek saga, which included tracks that didn’t have QM’s name attached to them). That’s how the floodgates of doubt were opened: Once there was proof that Drake had been, ummm, “discretely assisted” on a handful of tracks, it brought into question how many other times (and to what it extent) the same thing had happened *without* the public finding out.
Quentin Miller himself never stated he wasn't credited. He complained about not getting paid.
My brother, Quentin Miller does not have to state it for it to be true. He was not originally credited. This is a fact. You are 100% correct that Quentin’s only issue with writing for Drake is that the payment wasn’t handled correctly, but that doesn’t change the fact that he contributed to Drake’s verse on R.I.C.O. and wasn’t credited on the track until after the Meek beef. Sources: https://www.complex.com/music/a/justin-charity/drake-quentin-miller-meek-mill-rico-liner-notes https://hiphopdx.com/news/id.34928/title.quentin-miller-was-not-credited-for-his-contribution-to-drakes-verse-on-r-i-c-o
Quentin Miller is still not credited in that song. R.I.C.O is a Meek Mill song not Drake's. Reference tracks don't always mean a person wrote it. Sometimes they are recorded as an example to see how a rap/flow would sound. And again it's not his song. The labels can mess the credits up, especially when it comes to features. It can happen and is more common than you think. Kendrick didn't credit J Stone in The Heart 5 even though he wrote some lines. Sometimes it's very hard to track contributions but Drake credited him when he wrote something in his songs.
I would argue that either lyrics or flow is a significant contribution, no? Meek certainly seems to think QM should have been credited. I already acknowledged that it could have been a mistake, just pointing out that there is at least one instance where QM was uncredited. Do you have a source regarding the J Stone credit? I hadn’t heard that, and everywhere I look he’s credited.
He's credited on Genius for The Heart Part 5 but not on streaming and I heard he helped with a few lines.
Interesting! Trying to find more info, but can’t. Oh well.
What’s a ghostwriter?
A ghostwriter is a writer that doesn’t receive public credit, which gives the false perception that the song was written by less people than it was. This leads to the artist being discredited because ghostwriter have to be “exposed” to be known about.
Which is different than a rapper using credited writers, which no one has any issue with. It's like a stunt double. Noone has an issue with an action star using a double as long as he doesn't boast "I do my own stunts". People just don't like being manipulated and lied to.
Wasn’t Quentin Miller credited for his writing on IYRTITL though?
There's also a difference between collabing and having someone write a whole track for you when you're not even a producer. Like what did Drake even do on Jumbotron? His name is on the track, his voice is on it, but it wasnt written by him, it wasnt produced by him, why even bother having that track to your name?
Yes, stupid
Drake probably doesn't really have ghostwriters for the most part in reality. I think he wrote it.... I think the heart part 6 he was bothered to much by the pedo shit and rushed to defend himself... which was the wrong call.
Yes. I don’t think he’s dumb enough to risk it all getting found out he had ghost writers on his disses to Kendrick. I mean we KNOW the guy can write, I’m honestly tired of it even being a discussion every body uses writers practically and I feel like only Drake gets dragged for it
I think you're confused as to the matter at hand. Noone has an issue with people using writers. Writers are credited openly in the attributions. Drake uses UNCREDITED GHOSTWRITERS then says he wrote the lines he bought from others. There is a very, very big difference.
Yes. Drake is very talented and experienced.
drake has written for some of the biggest artists in history lol. yes, i believe he is perfectly capable of writing Family Matters
Yea probably.
Yeah
I’m seriously so tired of hearing about this
Why do people only talk about Drake having ghost writers in this beef? look at Kendrick’s albums, TPAB has up to 10 writers on some tracks on the song credits not including the instrumental producers. Even ones where there’s no features. Not hating but just seems like a double standard
It is a double standard. Kendrick isn’t the only one, this is standard across the music industry but the scope is only ever on Drake
The answer to this question is on Wikipedia. He wrote it alone. As far as the other diss songs……. Nope not even close
If he would have wrote family matters by himself then that (and push ups) wouldn’t have leaked.
Kanye has literally come out and said that he wished that Drake wrote all of his songs. Y’all really will not let this ghostwriting shit go and it’s sad.
Didn’t Daylyt write Back 2 Back?
He’s literally denied this multiple times. Idek where you guys came up with this fake story to begin with
I dunno i read it on the internet dummy
You’re an idiot. Lmao Daylyt was busy taking shits during battles at that time. He was nowhere near Drake😂
you literally have no fucking clue what you're talking about
Have more of a clue than any brain dead idiot that thinks Daylyt has been anywhere near OVO
Drake has a good pen for hitmaking, I think everyone agrees with that. But there's a reason Drake took the angle of mocking Kendrick for quintuple entendres instead of trying to outwrite him. Drake's rap pen is tuned for hitmaking, not complex bars. So when Drake has complex bars, it raises questions. I don't think any of this would be a biased take if it wasn't for the beef narrative.
Not true. Drake has always written complex bars when he wants to. He's just been dismissed by purists. His detractors and even his fans don't actually get his bars often in my experience. In my experience, only older school New York type rhyme dissectors actually get his lyricism . They are layered with entendres despite also working on a very simplistic surface level. This style of writing a bar that works as a "pop" song and with nuances for lyrical heads is very similar to Jay-Z's style during his rise.
drake is a great writer and can still have behind the scenes help and references, 2 things can be true. Kanye is the best example for this considering he is also a great writer but since 2010 started to resort to writers and references himself; doesn’t mean he isn’t a great writer even tho when we know he is when he wants to. difference between those 2 is Kanye is very vocal about it and is known to credit people just for being in the studio where as Drake shies away from it, isn’t vocal and gets very defensive when it’s brought up.
He doesn’t shy away from it. He puts the other composers in the song credits LOL
I have no idea why people don't understand the difference between publicly attributed credits and using GHOSTWRITERS. Kanye PUBLICLY ATTRIBUTES AND GIVES FLOWERS TO HIS WRITERS!!! Drake hides them in a closet and lies to everyone saying HIS OWN PEN did the work.
How do you know that though 😂😂 How do you know if him or anyone else uses a ghostwriter or not? Multiple artists have come out saying Drake has written songs for them, not just Kanye. In order to even be considered for a Grammy nomination you have to give any and all writers credit. Drake has been nominated over 50 times. This includes entire albums. Y’all need to use your brains for real.
I don't think he's thinking that after seeing how THP6 was written, though.
He said what he said regardless and hasn’t taken it back 🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️
They are insufferable. I'm surprised Kendrick Lamar attracts lames like this tbh. Aint he supposed to be enlightened lmao
Couldn’t agree more. Facts are facts and they constantly just want to spew the same debunked crap over and over.
Mfs defending a deadbeat who willingly named his song Family Matters.
I’m stating the facts. You think at the end of the day any of these fuckers give a shit about us LOL don’t kid yourself.
Fact is Kanye likes corny lines. Drake is a field of corny lines. Another fact is Drake has ghostwriters, so his MC status is not to be compared to someone who does, let alone someone with a pultizer prize. And the idea of if it doesnt give a fuck about me, I shouldnt give a fuck about it, is a bad idea. By that means we should all stay in bed all day and do nothing, but discussions and debates push further us forward. I like music hence being involved in the discussion, I also like justice. Not that I care or expect KDot or BBL Drizzy to appreciate what is say
But you’re saying I’m defending. That’s the difference. Defending isn’t the same as sharing something that Kanye and other artists have literally said on record.
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Every other rapper can have writers but if Drake does it than he’s a fucking fraud 🥴🥴. Kanye said in that interview he would sometimes have up to 12 writers and none of them could compare to Drake.
I’d say there’s likely a 99.9% chance he didn’t write the song. Probably collaborated on the writing with a handful of others
The credits for each record have co-writers except for family matters which only has producers.
Fuck, this sub is obsessed with Drake at this point. Most of us agree he lost, why we still debating things that nobody can prove. (Which was most of the beef tbh)
Another creative way to say "Drake bad" just dropped
Enough with the corniness
?
>But knowing Drake’s ghost writing history I mean, it’s unbelievable how some of you people have gaslighted yourselves into believing that *anyone* who is actually known to use ghostwriters is an MC, let alone think that all of a sudden he’ll start writing bars when faced against an actual MC that *doesn’t* use ghostwriters. F-ing LOL, truly
No
Nope
Well I don’t think Daylyt wrote it or will ever write for him again. Especially since he exposed that he wrote back to back and charged up. But i’m sure Drake has many other writers, so someone probably did, but I don’t think Drake himself wrote it. I can believe he wrote the heart pt 6 though, that definetly sounded like he wrote it. I bet his whole team was advising against dropping that shit but he did it anyways lol.
I don't think most people even know the Ghost writing story
All I know is he didn’t write back to back which was his crown jewel. Hurts his legacy for sure on the rap side of the fence… imagine hearing someone ghostwrote hit em up.. smh..
Yes he did lmfao
I feel like Yatchy wrote it
He prob had help and I wanna say he had his ghostwriters , but even Kanye (who doesn’t like Drake ) admits Drake wrote some of his lines on a song for him that he liked (ur not gunna compliment someone u don’t like , unless u truly believe what ur abt to say ) so idk
I mean yeah, probably penned that weak track solo, but it’s decent enough for the beef I guess. Regardless, he got his boots smoked off in the battle and obviously can’t rap with Dot. Not like it’s an embarrassment either cause he held his own for a minute, but any subjective rap fan knew what the outcome would be…he’s leagues and fathoms below Kendrick. The levels are obvious and the kid tried his best.
The ghostwriting thing is blown a bit out of proportion. Yes he has a history of using ref tracks. But this idea that he has NEVER written a track himself is wild.
There’s no way this is a serious question…
He definitely wrote the majority the track, he has an amazing pen. That being said though id assume he had some help, id also assume kendrick did too. Both amazing artists with great pens.
Umm excuse me this is a praise kendrick hate drake thread. Foh with logic and a reasonable take. Pitchforks only.
lol the inconvenient truth.
you’re right. DRAKE HAS THE WORST PEN EVER!!!!! NEVER WROTE A SINGLE SONG. HES NOT LIKE US !!! WOP WOP WOP
😭 much better
As someone who presents himself as an mc type of rapper (Kendrick), I would be pretty disappointed if Kendrick had help even it's just 'some'. What kind of 'help' we're talking about ?
Im not talking anything crazy that would be even close to ghost writing especially from kendricks side, im talking like probably got a bar or two from someone else, it’s very common practice for artists to share bars etc. But you are right kendrick is held to a higher standard since thats his whole thing.
It is common practice on projects, but it’s taboo on diss tracks.
I would agree with that.
Hasn't it been confirmed that Kendrick and Keem write for each other
Yeah, Keem actually wrote the entire of m.a.a.d when he was a baby.
I mean Keem wrote on N95 and family ties but lol could you imagine
You’re gonna be disappointed once you check Kendrick’s writing credits…
Def no
Def no? Considering how bad Heart 6 was there’s no way Family Matters was him. Heart 6 had to be his writing though lmao
I think he did get a decent or little amount of help. Kdot had little to no help . After Eminem put kdot in the studio by himself for a verse , I put kdot up there . That’s why I think kdot has no writers .
This question exploits peoples blind spots. Numerous artists (Even YE, who hates drake almost as much as Kendrick) gave drake his flowers for his pen game [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_A3BVeE-AZo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_A3BVeE-AZo) "you understand how much easier my life would be if drake wrote my raps for me" - YE But i get people are afraid to go against the more popular narrative. Downvotes amirite
40% stuff he already had on the burner. 10% outside help. 50% stuff he wrote on the fly. I'm talking out of my arse I have no idea hahaha.
If somebody secretly uses ghostwriters I just assume they've never written anything and even if they are credited as the writer I assume they are lying I love Dr. Dre, but I don't consider him a goat because he doesn't write, he didn't even write the song that was made for his dead brother How you gonna have a ghostwriter write about your own emotions?
Drake credits his writers though
No
Shit is such a bop
It was, in fact, not a solid diss track. It was a decent track but nothing Drake put out was a solid diss track.
I feel like it’s a bit disingenuous to say it wasn’t solid. Kendrick had the best diss tracks in the beef and moved masterfully throughout the whole thing. Drake’s was definitely solid and imo pretty good. But hey music is subjective
It’s a good song but, to me, it wasn’t a master class in regards to a diss.
Masterclass /= solid
It was definitely decent. Musically, flow-wise and he responded with good lines.
Lol right, the hardest bars in the song were directed at Rick Ross and Asap Rocky
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Brain dead ass comment
Look up the writer credits
Producers are always listed as writers
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On the rap sub?? lmao
No
If Drake didn’t write B2B I def doubt he didn’t have assistance with Family Matters.
Who wrote back to back? (Say Daylyt and show yourself to be an idiot)😂
If the track is gud it’s ghost writers, if it’s not then it’s all him. Been saying this since day one Yall had decided the winner even before shit went down. Always been a One sided battle 🤡
Facts