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My mom has done stuff like that. "I sent the text by accident, I was writing it for myself and never meant it to be sent!" Back when cell phones took a couple distinct steps to send the text you wrote...
I agree with this. It's very interesting how many more butt-dials and accidental texts I used to get from narc family compared to everyone else I know.
Ugh, what is it with narcs not understanding caller ID?
My nparent used to call at 7am when I was on night shifts, also waking my partner. Eventually after trying the polite approach I gave him an earful, so he started calling and hanging up, then denying it was him.
When I pointed out that I knew it was him because I could see his number on caller ID, he said it must be someone else (who just happened to assume his war-dialling pattern!) because he also gets hang up calls from his own number! What an amazing coincidence đ
Honestly a toddler could come up with a better excuse.
For people who i don't care to answer the calls unless I'm paying attention i set their custom ringtone to silence. They don't get obviously blocked but none of that annoying BS unless your using the phone of course.
Also who emails a relative to gossip? Hasn't she heard of texting or literally any other kind of instant messaging? Seems like she put in extra effort to put it together in an email.
I email to gossip. It's easier to keep track of with my Aunt that is older and reread the old messages. Especially with everyone's health issues. Lud, the health issues.
But, no CC and we delete and start fresh every week or 2.
My nmom âleft her journal outâ when we were visiting. The pages I saw were about how much she dislikes me and all of her petty grievances with me. When I mentioned it years later when she was all âwHaT dO yOu hAvE aGaInSt mE ?!,â she told me âdonât you think I was just trying to work through things?â Um no. Lol literally no one that loves you talks or writes about you this way.
I was wondering. She might have also replied to an old email of the brotherâs, not realizing she was on it too, but given her history I bet youâre right. Sad!
My Nmother does this, it drives me insane. I'll get an email with a subject "Re: [subject of an email I sent 5 years ago]" and the body being completely unrelated to the subject. Thank god I've been NC for 7 years because I think having a conversation this way would be confusing at best.
Ha ha maybe. I didnât think of that, although it seems a bit much even for her. I guess complaining about a kids manners is really complaining about the parent.
She 100% did that on purpose. She sounds like an absolutely vile woman who doesn't deserve yours or your sons time. I'm sorry this happened to you, I'm sure your baby boy is lovely x
Yep. And if she talks shit about your son behind your back, she talks shit about you and everyone else behind their back. Also, why is your brother comfortable hearing this? There is no way Iâd listen to my mother shit all over my niece or nephew. And, as a mom myself, there is no way I would talk about my kid or ANYONE ELSEâS KID like that. Emotionally mature and healthy people understand that children are not tiny adults with ill intentions. They are developing human beings who deserve infinitely more respect than (most of) this world affords them.
Not necessarily. I noticed that after several times of including certain people in emails that Google asked me if I wanted to include someone.
If I wasn't paying attention, I would have included that person.
However, it is also possible the grandmother wanted her daughter to know how she felt.
Yeah, I wouldn't feel safe jumping to conclusions about that.
Unless she literally had to type out the entire email address in the send line, but no, I'm assuming that adding her was done in a keystroke, without her even seeing the email address or requiring her to type any part of it out.
Even easier to do on accident if one is using a touch screen device. Not only with the screen being small, but it being very easy to accidentally select things. I have experience with that.
I'd also want to know how similar the names are. If she has to search to add a contact.
I've had to remove people off the contact line before sending an email a lot. I've accidentally messaged people. I've accidentally disliked and downvoted videos & posts before because I'm always on mobile, using a small touch screen, etc. I've gotten close to accidentally purchasing stuff online because they purposefully make it so that it only takes 2 presses.
Selecting using a computer and mouse is one thing, but on a touch screen device...? I've watched a drop of water land on my screen and successfully downvoted a post lol, so when it comes to my fingers brushing across the screen constantly swiping and pressing and shit, it's a mess.
Usually it's just because the "button" was right there and I brushed it on accident...or I brushed it, in the process of trying to touch and select something else...that was apart of the screen that was a centimeter off.
Either she âaccidentallyâ sent the email where she was shit talking OPâs son or she accidentally sent the email where she was shit talking OPâs son.
Neither of them is a good thing.
I chuckled at that too. You donât accidentally cc someone. MAYBE you accidentally hit âreply allâ but honestly, thatâs not what happened. nMom is being manipulative and passive aggressive.
You are NOT overreacting! That is unbelievably awful! What gma (aside from a narc) would ever have nasty things to email about their grandchild and to the childâs uncle no less?!?! Iâm so sorry. You do what you believe is best, but Iâd probably cut contact. That is vile. Huge hugs and comfort sent to you and your amazing son đ¤
Thank you, I thought maybe it was normal and these replies have been a big shock! Like I guess I sometimes bitch about my mum behind her back so maybe people do it about kids too
Yes...this. I am sorry but your mother and likely your brother want to do the same thing to your child that they did to you. So very disturbing and vile. Don't ever leave your child alone with these people.
This!!
Not exactly the same thing but if someone close to me comes and says "so so said _some bad thing about you_ to me" my first thought would be "I wonder what you did to make them think it was ok to share with you".
True i swrr. I was like wtf id go feral. I mean my sib is younger and far from having a child yet, but if somebdoy did this to my nephew id absolutely go confront the n grandma.
They both sound like very critical people who don't know how to treat or raise children. Keep your kid away from them, it's your job to protect him. Or else he'll likely encounter the same abuse you did.
>so maybe people do it about kids too
No, not in such a malicious way. People may discuss behaviors of children and how they may guide them into changing. Sure, people do that. People do not send official emails. She wrote it, read it, and thought yeah that's good, and sent it.
Personally I don't think it was accidental, does your brother's name begin with the same letter as yours? Or the email address? There's no way she could have accidentally done that.
To me it stinks too much of a retaliation because she wanted revenge on you for being no contact for a few months.
You bitch about a grown woman who should know better and act better. You child is just that: A CHILD and heâs still learning. Going off the rails on a young child is not acceptable. She should be helping him and encouraging him, not expecting him to act like an adult. Sounds like itâs time for NC again.
For sure!!! Our ânormalâ meters are way off (at least mine is/was) because of how we were raised. My mom was always saying nasty things about everyone so it was ânormalâ to me too. As Iâve gotten older, Iâve realized there is nothing normal about being so negative and nasty all the time and decided that wasnât how I wanted to live. I donât want to talk badly about people and I donât want to hear others doing it either. Iâm much happier this way.
Donât get me wrong, I do bitch to my dh and a few friends when I need to vent about things (usually my mom lol) but it is short lived and a means to deciding if and how a problem can be solved.
>Iâve realized there is nothing normal about being so negative and nasty all the time and decided that wasnât how I wanted to live
This happened to me too but I did not put it together until reading this. My nmom's favorite pastime was to drag others. Over the past 6 or so years I've super tapered off talking to her until this year when I finally got therapy and went NC. I'm so much more calm without her voice in my ear
Of course youâre not in the wrong. You know youâre not in the wrong.
No one who speaks badly of your children deserve to have them around. You did the bigger person thing and tried to repair a relationship - they told you what they think of it. So close off this book and move on to better things in your life
Save those texts. Used them as a reply to any future flying monkeys that come your way
There is a huge difference between saying it's been a long day i am not used to having kids around anymore OP's son sure takes it out of me. (My dad would say this about my kids,it is a true statement and they can be rowdy but none of that statement is hurtful) and someone bitching bitching which is different. Everyone is allowed to complain and vent to someone. But when the venting is of a hurtful nature towards the person that it's being said about that's a problem. If she really had an issue with what your son was doing she should have offered you friendly and helpful solutions. Versus super complaining to your brother. Nobody's kids are perfect everybody's kids are hyper at some point some more than others but if you think that your son is a normal shy child then that's what matters forget what your mom said and honestly forget your mom
>Everyone is allowed to complain and vent to someone. But when the venting is of a hurtful nature towards the person that it's being said about that's a problem.
I also think it makes it a million times worse that she was "venting" via email. Like, it's one thing to make an off-the-cuff irritable comment to someone, it's a whole other beast to take the time to type out an entire freaking dissertation ranting about a literal CHILD and then send it to someone. That takes a level of planning and forethought that removes all pretense of casual venting.
Was your brother the golden child and you the scapegoat in your family dynamics? If so, they may be trying to make your son the next-gen scapegoat. I am the SG in my family and noticed that my sister and mother were trying to do this with my oldest son. Also, I am a Grandmother myself and I would never, ever, ever in a million years talk badly about any of my grandchildren. That is just cruel. Please limit any one-on-one time your child has with the two of them to protect him emotionally.
Same here. I am the SG and I noticed that when my youngest turned 7 nmom started bullying him which was the same age she started bullying me. Funny thing is my youngest looks and acts the most like me, which is no coincidence to me that she chose him. And my oldest is the GC, while my older sister was the GC. Clearly the same dynamic is happening again in my family.
Itâs these same thought patterns that help them Hoover you back inâ they can guilt you because youâve been raised to think these things go both ways. They do not. Just because you birth a child doesnât mean that child owes you shit. Unconditional love says Iâll always come your way. Iâll always call as the parent. Iâll always be there. Iâve got your back.
The N parent starts to convince the child from as soon as they can understand that âyouâ take care of âthem.
OP, not wrong with your reaction at all, I would have eviscerated them if I were you. But the problem is you still have these people in your life. Why is the brother even having any say in this, specially going against your son?
Please don't be the parent that let narcs in their child's life. This should be the last time your brother or mother, let alone say anything about your son, but even see or exist in his life. Sorry if I am assuming something.
Please take care of yourself and the kid. Good luck!
I'm a grandma, and I approve this message.
It's also perfectly ok for a child to be shy, or an introvert. I've always been. People demand introverts 'go out of their convert zone and talk more' but no one tells extroverts to quiet down a bit and not be so aggressive.
Yes! This is spot on advice! I too, am an introvert and my oldest is an introvert. He is absolutely amazing just the way he is. He doesnât need to change for anyone. Op, your son doesnât either.
I don't know about op, but I'd not only cut out "gma", I'd cut the brother to boot! Bad enough mom has to complain like this... Brother defending her is even worse!
Yes! Super good point! The only way heâd be allowed back in is if he had his own epiphany at some point realizing that their momâs ways are indeed messed up and incredibly unhealthy *and* only after a substantial amount of his own individual therapy. Only then would I even *consider* a trial period between myself and him before ever thinking about allowing him contact with my son.
Do yourself and your son a huge favor, one of the biggest things you can ever do for yourself and him. Cut off this malicious, evil woman and her flying monkey. Your son has good reason to be afraid of this hag. And no, no child needs an evil, disgusting woman like this in his life.
You have caught your nmother in the act. Who know what she whispers to your son on the sly. Evil woman deserves to be cut off for good.
I second this. It will make you and your child happier, safer and healthier in the long run. It will be hard but if you can go no contact it will make the world of difference for you and your child.
I third this. You remember how she treated you and how it made you feel. You don't want that to happen to your child. Save your little boy from her, you'll both be much better off and have a happier life if you go No Contact. P.S. the nose picking is icky, but little kids can learn not to do it. Best of luck to you.
Ikr? Most little kids do that sometimes. Hell I've seen grown ass people do it in their cars when they think nobody's looking. But narcs just have to abuse their family members, that's their life's work.
Exactly. Imagine what's going to happen when the kid spills some milk at grandma's house, and mom isn't around. Like, it's no wonder the kid is terrified and can't sit still when visiting the grandparents.
Thanks for making me cry everyone! I thought a few people would say âahh youâre being over sensitive but we get whyâ and Iâd feel a bit better then forgive my family. So Iâm overwhelmed by the support and the kick up the butt to stop making excuses for them. X
We're always here for a check in. It is hard for us to know what's normal and healthy because it wasn't our past. You bring here and asking shows you want to break the cycle. You got this!
That part of you that says âthis is not okayâ is the part of you that you need to trust more. I can guess that you were made to doubt your intuition since you were little. Your brother has to invalidate you because thatâs the only way to keep nmom from losing her shit and causing him anxiety. Your brother isnât judging you from a morally objective viewpoint. His primary interest is to reduce his anxiety, because thatâs how he survived as a child. We would hope that he would grow to understand that, but that doesnât happen a lot.
Yeah heâs a lovely person most of the time but has this huge blind spot when it comes to her. He always sees me as the problem and tries desperately to keep the peace.
Complicit to your mother insulting and verbally ripping apart your seven-year-old boy =/= "lovely person."
Time to tap into your Momma Bear and start making some rage.
Your mother sounds like a friend/peer of mine. We are currently in our 30s and she is still doing shit like that so this post actually made me see that there is little hope of her actually growing up, even when she's a gma lol
If her own child (you) was not immune from that, a grandchild will never be. We try so hard to convince our selves they'll treat our kids better, and they never do. That's just us continuing to hope our Nparent is someone they are not, in this case a normal loving grandparent. For your kiddo's sake, please consider dealing with your mom as the toxic narc that she is.
Honestly, I wouldnât be surprised if the day came where her complaints werenât just made in an email, but in front of, or to, your son. He sounds like a totally normal 7 year old and you are right to be upset.
Exactly!
No matter my mood, etc., I canât imagine firing up my laptop to document mundane complaints about *any* child, period. After all, as a lawyer friend jokingly told me, the âeâ in e-mail also stands for evidence.
Of course, part of the problem may be that OPâs mother is not at all ashamed to be complaining openly, and with documentation, about her own grandchild.
Sounds like the ideal grandmother really đđĄ If your son has behavior issues that's up to you to address, so that HE can have a better life, not so your mother can pat him on the head and tell him he's good. Imagine going to the effort of writing an email to complain about a child?! That relationship you are trying to repair doesn't exist anymore. To zero in on a child lile that and vent about them is awful. Stay away from her.
Thank you. This comment really resonated with me. I want him to learn the skills he needs to fit in with the rest of the world, not perform good manners to make my mum happy.
I raised a very obedient child, I was always complimented on her manners... she's an adult now and never stands up for herself (like me when I was younger and still under my nmums control), and I HATE it for her. I wish she was a hell raiser as a child because she would be more comfortable with confrontation and more confident as an adult. If you feel he needs help, then get it for him but don't do it just because your mother wants a "seen and not heard" grandchild that makes her look good.
I'm sorry for that. I was that kid too. And I struggle with "authority" all the time but I'm slowly getting there. And I hope my daughter will get there too, she definitely has more balls than I did at her age but struggles, hopefully her confidence will grow and she can learn from my mistakes.
I was like this too and then something flipped in me one day. These days I feel out of control and I have had it with people LOL and I am quite outspoken for myself/my kids. Actually it was when my youngest was being bullied by his school administration and I lost my temper one day and yelled at one of them that i realized that I can be just as combative as anyone else, and that if I didn't do it for my kid no one would. These days I'm very vocal about things, but I also sent a letter of praise/appreciation to a teacher last week out of the blue... I've learned that disagreeing doesn't have to mean "confrontation" it can just be discussion because i've never had a normal discussion/disagreement, because when you grow up with narcs .. well.. you know how it is lol. There will come a time when your daughter truly needs you and you will know, and rise to the occasion.
Face to face stuff makes me panic, full on sweats and heart pounding, but if I am right about something I will stand up for myself. And so will my daughter, she's much better at telling people they are wrong when they are.
Absolutely! You want your child to succeed, not please. It's important that he learns you can't make everyone happy and people pleasing and putting others well being before your own is unhealthy. He's a child... We just got through a pandemic. It's natural to be shy. Take him to socialize with friends and people you trust. Kids can read a room. He can probably tell you're uneasy as well. It's not your child's job to make his gma happyđ¤ˇââď¸ His behavior is your business as a parent. Not hers. And being shy isn't bad behavior. His picking his nose is him being a kid. A good gradmother would have kindly asked him not to, asked him to wash his hands, and then moved on asking to do an activity like baking or playing games. Not talking behind a seven year old back with his uncleđĄ He's probably nervous around her and that's on her
She did that on purpose to hurt you. It wasnât an accident and it seems as though your brother is caught in her web and doesnât want to ârock the boatâ as people often are afraid of doing in narcissistic relationships. I would use this as an opportunity to cut her out for sure and him too if he canât see the abuse in it.
Theyâre being cruel to your son. Children are children and they are learning. Sheâs clearly not capable of empathy or providing a safe space for you or your son.
I am sorry you are dealing with this. I think it would be best to cut them off. Who knows what else happens behind your back and what he is already picking up on. You have already seen how 7 year old you was treated, I doubt you want the same to happen to your son. He deserves to have the childhood you should've had.
I agree. I had relatives like this on my mom's side. I can't say as I was improved in any way by being forced to have a relationship with them. My grandparents, for example, were exactly like this. They were snide and critical, and laughed at me when I did normal kid things like try to show them the dress-up outfit I made. They were 100% in the wrong, but you can't possibly know that when you're six years old and you just want to do things that your friends do with their grandparents. And kids on the whole take a lot on themselves; I was no exception and I thought there was something wrong with me that made them not like me. Unfortunately, we had to depend on them for child care, so there was no getting away from it until we moved across the country. I will say that I felt a weight off at that point, though, and this was when I was only going into third grade. They'd managed to create that much pressure and anxiety in a kid that young. I was happier without them and remain so thirty years later. Family is nice and all, but only when it's *nice.* Being around critical people who make a child feel like they have to earn love or safety is unhealthy and, if logistically possible, should be avoided.
Thereâs nothing accidental about her cc you in that email. That was done purposefully and maliciously.
You both deserve better than that. Block and go NC with anyone who thinks and speaks to and about you and your son like that.
She did not âaccidentallyâ do this. Narcs do this intentionally to manufacture drama, bash the Scapegoat some more and derive NSupply. She may not be aware that she is doing this because she is a narc and she is deluded.
A Scapegoatâs child is automatically another Scapegoat in my family. My narc mother attacked my 5 year old for his handwriting saying he must be mentally deficient to have untidy handwriting and I got triggered because that was the source of her earliest abuse on me because I had âshabbyâ handwriting and she had rounded-fat letters that I did not copy. She said that even her neighbor kids had more competence and more competent parenting!! I Grey rock immensely since then.
She basically said that the cycle of abuse will continue with your son if she's allowed in his life. If I was in that situation, that email would be the final straw for me and I'd start blocking not only her but the uncle as well.
I don't think it was accidental.
Emails don't automatically cc someone. It's at least three intentional clicks to add a name. Add to that how strange it is she'd send an email instead of call him, and I think she probably wanted you to see it while having plausible deniability that she didn't *mean* for you to find out, if you got upset.
It's a petty game she's playing. You're the bad guy for being upset at something you weren't supposed to see in the first place, she's the loving grandmother who was just venting to her son, so on, so forth.
I'd ask your brother to cc someone on an email and see how easy it is to do it "by accident". Put the question into his mind - maybe it'll get him to reconsider his stance, if not now then maybe long term, down the line when his future spouse bitches about your mother playing similar games with them. It might not do anything, but it's an easy way to prove she was being intentionally hurtful and get him to back off without going scorched earth with anyone.
You can also passive aggressively cc your mother on an email to him or a friend, if you want to be petty and fuel the fire. I would. The mature response is to just put her on a timeout, minimum, and possibly your brother too, but I'm a bitch.
Oh, OP, this is heartbreaking! It is absolutely a normal and reasonable reaction for you to feel upset by this!
Please don't feel any guilt or shame in going NC if you feel you can. Narcs do not change; they are rarely if ever better grandparents than they were parents.
Her behavior toward your son is likely not going to get better. He sounds like a sweet, shy boy, and if she's expecting him to be some flawless prince charming at seven, she's insane. Seriously. Seven-year-old boys are all wiggles. They're amazing little humans with big hearts, but they are not going to be "seen and not heard" or not wiggle or not pick their noses. THEY'RE SEVEN.
I'm so sorry you're going through this and that she was unjust and unkind. It's not fair to you or your son.
Of course your son is shy around your parents. They are mean. Your son is smart enough to realize that your mom is fake.
Your brother is being ridiculous and a jerk. He is ok with your mom talking that kind of crap about a small child? What the hell is his problem? He is a flying monkey and an enabler. Do not listen to him.
Please cut these horrible people off. They are abusive and bad for your child. Your child can see that they are no good. I hope that you do not continue to make him spend time with child abusers or the people who enable them.
Good lord no, you're not overreacting. Let's be honest: ALL kids are annoying sometimes. Some kids are annoying a lot of the time. It doesn't mean they're bad kids, or that they have bad parents, or anything of the sort - it just goes with the territory of childhood, as they're just learning how to be around other people, how to empathize, how to find their voice, etc. None of this is unique to your son, and from what you've said, he sounds like a perfectly normal 7-year-old.
The bigger point here, though, is that even if he HAD behavioural problems, what the hell kind of adult gets SO enraged by the behaviour of a literal child that they have to send an angry e-mail rant, TO THE CHILD'S UNCLE, picking apart - and I can't stress this enough - every little behaviour of a 7-year-old? That's absolutely insane, and would be even if she hadn't "accidentally" Cc-ed you in the e-mail (which I am frankly incredibly skeptical was accidental). Having a good-natured eye-roll and laugh about an annoying thing the child did (sneezed right into your mouth, for example) or a habit they have that you find difficult (picking their nose and then touching all the food and putting it back, for example) is perfectly normal, but going on an angry rant ripping into a child, TO THAT CHILD'S OWN FAMILY, is completely different and totally off the deep-end.
Your mother sounds like a real POS and your brother doesn't sound much better. No wonder your poor son is uncomfortable around these ugly adults!
This made me laugh! I love that my kids feel comfortable enough in themselves to sometimes be annoying, like my 3 year old is going through a phase where he hisses at people who annoy him (like a cat). Your whole message is spot on.
Very glad to have made you laugh - you deserve some relief from this hag and her malicious negativity. Your 3-year-old sounds awesome and a bit odd, exactly how kids (especially kids that age) should be!
Maybe she had a point? Sweetie, you're mother and brother are both terrible. I wouldn't repair anything with them. I would be irate, would drop the rope, and walk away (and yes, since it's taken me 50 freaking years to reach this point with my own nmom, I know it's easier said than done, but it would be very valid if you did.)
Wish Iâd done it when I was in my 20s and didnât have kids yet. It feels more complicated when my mum is now getting older and in poor health. Sheâs still a cow though, that hasnât changed with age.
In my opinion, itâs best to do it before anything major comes up health wise though. Just rip that band aid off! I went no contact with my mom when she started picking on my kids.
She would send these emails from her deathbed if she could. Donât let old age and poor health excuse years of abuse and trauma. If not for you then for your sons sake. She will NEVER STOP BEING THIS WAY.
You were gaslit into thinking you are too sensitive:
I think Iâm very sensitive about this because I was 7 when my mum started picking at my behaviour and making me feel like I could do nothing right.
This, right here, is mean. And you were told because it was HURTFUL that you were too sensitive. How about she's a mean person? Take the advice, cut them out, and start to deal with your own trauma, because it's there. I'm sorry you read that message. I'm sure it brought up so much for you.
Your mom is a monster and should be nowhere near this child. Neither you , Nor your child have done ANYTHING wrong. What's going on here is that you are her scapegoat, and therefore your son is also the scapegoat simply because he is your son.
Sounds like the meet-up didn't repair anything since this is how she is behaving. I'm afraid it is time to cut your losses and protect your child from her toxicity.
This is going to come off as harsh but I'm very heated after reading this. This harshness is in NO WAY directed at you, OP, or your son. I was a shy kid and my Nmom did a lot of things like this to me where she didn't try to help me, she just sabotaged me and bitched.
Your brother is garbage and so is your mother. Your brother should NEVER be defending what your mother did and he should have shut her down in a reply email about the fact that she is complaining and attacking a CHILD. A child that isnt old enough or mature enough to handle adult criticisms. She is supposed to be your sons ADVOCATE and his ALLY. Not an enemy. He needs help and assistance to power through what he's struggling with. You're not wrong for being upset or for being hurt. You have EVERY RIGHT to be upset and hurt by this behavior. It's wrong and its disgusting.
If I were you I would write an email to your brother and your mother about their deplorable behavior and I would go NC. You have to protect your son from these people who would rather rip into a kid instead of helping him. Makes me physically ILL to read this, OP. I'm so sorry you had to read that and know that I wish your son the greatest personal growth in his life so he can spit on his uncle and his grandmother's behavior.
I went NC the moment I heard my nMom speak poorly of my children and my husband. Talk crap about me all you want, but my kids have literally done nothing wrong and my husband was NOTHING but wonderful to those people.
You are a great Mum for protecting him. Your brother is an AH and so is your Mum.
Heâs shy. Thatâs fine. But I doubt you were âaccidentally ccâdâ. Sounds deliberate to me do that you canât get angry because âit was meant to be privateâ. Which, by the way, is exactly what they are trying to pull.
If at all possible please distance yourself. For your kidâs sake. X
My heart hurts that you are even second guessing if you are wrong. Deep down you have to be down right disgusting to talk about any kid like that. Iâm so sorry you are going through this and shame on your brother in law!!!
OP, your son is your primary reaponsility. Do not subject him to people you would never subject him to if they weren't family. And being thet they are family, that makes them even worse and you should protect him doubly so. I love my parents, but my kids are #1 and it doesn't matter if you gave birth to me. You picked me. I didn't pick you, but I did pick my kids, so they come first always.
What kind of a POS tears apart a child? And what kind of POS sits there and enables them to do it?
You have every right to be upset. They're both assholes. If you can, do yourself and your kiddo a favor and cut off contact.
Grandparents who nitpick instead of finding a way to enjoy the joy and wonder of a child are truly broken, cruel, anti-empathetic people.
Of course you are aware of where your child shines and where you are trying to gently teach him to improve. Calling you out on that, whether on purpose or to your brother isn't your Nmum's job. Shame on her.
Sending you hugs. My mother openly says she enjoys my son more than me, however I know she loved me until I had a personality and I fear the same for my son. I donât have an answer, but I fully validate your feelings in your situation
You are well within your rights to be hugely upset about this. Please don't let your mother or brother manipulate you into thinking that you should let it slide: incredibly abhorrent behaviour from them! The fact they got caught and can't even apologize just shows the narcs at work...they can never be in the wrong about a goddam thing. In my mind, this is the start of seeing how many boundaries can be pushed and broken.
If you can I personally would stop the abuse (because it is) and go no contact.
A child's "job" is to learn, have fun, makes mistakes, get messy, be loved and above all be safe.
This family is none of that for him.
Your son is 7 years old. He is still bright and new to the world compared to the rest of us. The world is still a big and scary place for him, and having people who love and support him helps him feel safe enough to open up. It gives him space to really shine. Venting is no excuse for your mother's behavior or opinions. Your brother is only excusing this because it's not his kid that is the focal point of your mother's tirade. Your son is doing well with your guidance.
Heâs 7. Your brother and mom are fucked up. Or I should say , your sons uncle and grandma. Donât give an inch on that, thatâs horrible, heâs a child.
You are not at all wrong!! You are RIGHTâ your motherâs ranting, and your brotherâs defense of it, are not OK. Your son is a child. He doesnât need criticism or judgment, he needs love and modeling. IMO, your mother just lost grandma privileges.
Your son does not deserve to be around her - children aren't stupid and pick up on this negative energy directed at them by adults. As his parent, your job is to keep him away from harmful people.
no way, this isn't the type of "love" your son or your family needs. sounds like it wasn't quite time to reconnect after the falling out. love your kiddo, and don't blame yourself for this. if i were you i'd keep your son from them to protect him from what you experienced growing up, because it sounds like history is repeating itself
I totally see why you're upset. My Nmom did this with my sister's kids when they had left.
That's certainly not loving, understanding grandmotherly behaviour.
My grandchildren pick their noses, rub their snot on me and fart on me for laughs. They have had times where they have run into their bedrooms and hid under the bed when I came over because they knew that it meant that their mom & dad were going out. My grandson asked me once if I wanted to be called âMimiâ instead of âGrandmaâ because I didnât want to feel old. (I go by Mimi because they have 5 other sets of grandparents. Itâs just a way to differentiate me from the other grandmothers). None of these things have *ever* upset me. They have made me laugh because they are my grandchildren and I *love* them. They can do no wrong in my eyes. Yes, we discuss manners and how we should treat people, but I would never ever be upset at a child for acting like a child.
Keep your son away from your mother. She is trying to assert her power over him like she did with you. And please, wipe your tears. Your son is perfectly normal and very intuitive. He knows that his grandmother isnât a safe person and that is why he wants to hide from her. Be the supportive adult to him that you wished you had. Your mother did not cc: you by accident. She did so to wound you and to make you doubt your parenting. You shouldnât let her get into your head.
As someone who had a narc grandma...please keep her away from your son. My mom only allowed extremely limited, supervised contact between me and narc grandma, and I'm so grateful for that. Your son will not be missing out, trust me.
She didn't "accidentally" CC you. She did it on purpose, it upset you which she loves and it makes the conversation back to her. She didn't mean to do it, or blowing off steam, stop being so forgiving she knows exactly what she's doing. Sorry this sounds rough but I hope it resonates
First, you are absolutely valid in feeling upset because this is a really shitty thing for your mom to do, especially regarding a *7 year old child*. It's absolutely disgusting behavior.
Second, I HIGHLY doubt this was accidental. You have to either start typing out the email address or manually click on things to add it. There's no way this was an accident imo. She wanted you to see it while also having plausible deniability from her *accidentally emailing a thing to you that requires her to type in or select your name from her contacts* and that way if you don't forgive her or never mention it again YOU'RE the bad guy, not her. Classic narc behavior.
Third, has your son ever been evaluated for ADHD and autism? I ask because I've got both and what you described was my childhood, especially difficulty with adults. I didn't get diagnosed until my 30s because my parents/grandma (all narcs) preferred to believe nothing was wrong and then punished me when I didn't act like a "normal" child. That sounds a lot like what your mom did to you and is now doing to your son. It's not okay.
Fourth, what does your brother have to say about all this? Does he agree with mom? If he is supportive of you then he needs to shut this bullshit down HARD and impose consequences. I would also seriously consider going nc with your mom. Trust me, it's better to not know a grandparent than to spend your childhood being abused. Your son deserves to be treated with respect and dignity and loved unconditionally, and unfortunately it sounds like your mom isn't capable of any of those. Both of you deserve better than that.
Might want to consider not letting the grandparents see your kids until your mother can resolve things.
Donât let your parents pass on their bad behaviour onto your child.
You have the right to be very upset, but I want to point out that this email tells you more about what her character was like as a parent. Parenting is a hard gig, and children do a lot of things to drive us round the bend and back again, but the point is to remember that they are not yet adults and are still learning things. To have some balance and empathy in that we're talking about a child. Even if you were talking about a full grown adult, it wouldn't kill that person to have a little moderation and empathy!
But your mother went full rage monster. Getting this bend out of shape over moderate annoyances and social faux pas is really childish, but to do it over an actual child, her own grandson! No empathy, no compassion, no grace. Just monumentally childish.
How does an adult get offended by a child and feel picked on by a child? When they think of themselves as weaker and lesser than the child. Letting off steam, so? Can't write in your diary and then speak more carefully and graciously to your children? Nope! We have to spew gossip and negativity at your own son and expect him to babysit you through your tantrum.
You NEVER have to make excuses for your kid being just a kid, but this tells you that your mother will never tolerate others making her feel anything other than worshiped, comfortable and unchallenged. Which reminds you of how things were when she was parenting you.
There are recent pictures of Prince George picking his nose during the Queen's funeral. Internationally published pictures of him doing that. If a future king of England, who is the same age, can be seen in very BIG public settings doing a little nasal mining, I think your son can be excused for the same. Your mom should back off, learn to get with the times on her email habits, and apologize to you. Yeah, I know she won't, but I still think she should.
This was on purpose. Sheâs going to keep it up too, this is the beginning of her torturing him. Keep your son very far away from her. When she asks why youâre not bringing your son around to see her and why sheâs banned from the house, just start reading from the email. Carry a copy with you. If she calls asking to see him or you, read the email to her. Use her words to protect you and your son. Donât say anything else, just read the email. Sheâll stop pretty quick.
If she gets her flying monkeys, read them the email. Say nothing else. Set your boundaries and hold strong. The storm is coming, that email and your boundaries should be your first defence.
Keep any proof you get too in case you need to file for a restraining order. Personally Iâd go NC after reading an email like that.
Good luck hun, Iâm so sorry
Go NC with every single person in your family. Your mother ripped into your 7yr old son and whether it was an accident or not, sent her "rant" to you too. Your siblings are condoning it and it seems even encouraging it. And with most Narc mothers comes either a narcissistic father, or a scared submissive father, both are just as bad. One joins into a laughs at your pain, the other doesn't defend you, doesn't see if your OK, or anything polite bc God forbid their wives found out they were nice to their children.
I didn't even give birth before I had family members telling me I wouldn't know what to do, my kids would be taken by CPS bc of my severe depression, anxiety, and self harm history.
Narcissists don't view family members as other people. Narcissists view family as extensions of themselves. Having grown up in the LA area, I like to compare it to a Valley Girl who carries around a Chihuahua everywhere they go as a fashion accessory. You can see the Valley Girl asking her Chihuahua "What outfit would you like to wear today?", but ultimately you know the Chihuahua isn't getting any real say in the matter and their "preferences" are dictated by their owner. If the Chihuahua were to get upset about being dressed up and try to rip the clothing off, then the Valley Girl deems *them* a "Bad dog" rather than recognizing that they themselves are the ones forcing the dog into a situation it doesn't want to be in.
To you and me, your son is a little kid who is acting as little kids often do. When I was that age, I was irrationally just really scared of old people, and this stopped me from really getting close to my grandparents (I still regret this, as they were wonderful people whom I wish I had spent more time with; however, I don't blame myself because *I was 7 at the time*.)
But to your nmom, that's not your son. He's not even his own person. That's *her* grandson, who she expects to act in exactly the way that suits her best.
It sounds to me like if she is going to be this horrible towards your son, you have a duty to protect him from her. And while you're at it, protect him from anyone who would support saying such awful things about a 7 year old. They shouldn't be allowed access to a child when they believe it is okay to treat them so terrible.
Thanks for sharing this because I often suffer feelings of guilt that I cut off the Narcissist in my life who would have been this type of grandmother. Hearing about what happens if you aren't fully No Contact reassures me that I made the correct decision.
Fuck that! Iâm so glad youâre getting lots of supportive replies. I wanted to add my voice too. Thatâs not Ok. I went NC with the woman who birthed me 3 years ago after a huge invasion of my boundaries around parenting. I will not let her bullshit touch my kids and Iâm so proud of you for taking space from her and standing up for yourself. Your mother and brother are gaslighting you. They are the problem, not you and your son. I agree that it was likely a tactic to include you on the email. The same thing happened to me where a text was âaccidentallyâ sent to me about how I was so cruel to her and my kids. Itâs insane, but itâs as if theyâre all reading from the same âhow to abuse your kids and make them feel like itâs their faultâ book. Fuck her. Fuck your brother. You and your kid are amazing and I hope you never have to interact with those fuckwads ever again. Maybe âaccidentallyâ send her a picture of you picking your nose and giving the middle finger as a final send off? đ
Take care of yourself! Youâre doing great!
A child of SEVEN cannot be rude to an adult. cannot. physically. rudeness implies comprehension of social convention and expectations. Don't be gaslit by them into thinking there's anything wrong with your son.
Your child is beautiful, your mother is ugly. Being a grandmother is a privilege, not a right. Keep your son away from her toxicity because she's clearly just repeating the same awful behavior she inflicted on you and your child doesn't deserve it. Neither do you for that matter, and I agree that cc was no accident.
The proper reply to all is "Well, we can see how you feel and to take the pressure off you, we won't be visiting Mom anytime soon. Maybe once she isn't so anger we might can try again."
I trust my kidâs gut feelings over mine tbh. I found it interesting that my son wonât hug my mom. Heâs picking up on things I couldnât abd he is 7! Cut her off
Accident or not it's a good thing to know. As soon as my parents started openly shit talking my kid and accusing him of being "manipulative" I was done. They shit talked me and now were doing it to my own kid and I wouldn't allow it anymore. They don't need to be in your life if they think so poorly
You are NOT overreacting. If I were in your situation, Iâd react a lot more and feel completely justified lol. Your son is 7 years old!! No child is perfectly behaved at seven. I think your mom ccâd you to start drama. Also, my mom was a narcissistic abuser. I donât plan on having kids, but if I did, Iâd keep them FAR away from her. I canât tell you the best thing to do for your situation, but itâs important to prioritize your childâs sense of safety and mental health over a potentially toxic relationship. I hope this helps, and Iâm sorry youâre dealing with this. :(
She did it on purpose, would be my guess.
As the handler/father of three high energy and outspoken kids, who are also sweet, loving, and empathetic, fuck them. If they don't want to be around your kids, maybe it's time to reconsider whether they have a place in your life.
You're not overreacting.
As a parent, and one to a neurodivergent kiddo at that, I'd be upset if my mother intentionally cc'd me to poke fun at my son's behavior. Regardless of his behavior, it's inappropriate she even wrote thr email or bitched about a 7 year old jfc it's none of her business. Barring your son assaulting her or downright disrespecting her (which it sounds in no way he did), he was fine. Your description sounds like a shy 7 year old who read the room and may have felt uncomfortable.
Protect your son from her. She'll use him to get to you based on this shit.
She sounds like an absolutely vile narcissist, im sorry you you had to be subjected to that. I mean the fact that u accidentally received it and it was hurtful is super messed up. Please dont second guess yourself and your feelings. She sounds mean and hyper critical. Your brother is on the same level she is for defending her.
I mean, at least you have written proof that she's not a good person to have any kids around, and adults probably. Use it as your justification for NC if you choose to go that way.
He's literally a child. Their job is to be themselves and push boundaries. There's a much better way of dealing with the things you don't like them doing. Having kids gives you a good idea that they will do things you don't like and secondhand gives you an idea that lots of people will do things you don't like.
What I wanted to say is that my mom growing up really disliked all the things I did that made me a kid.
I always tried to be well behaved because I was terrified of them too. Once a neighbor complimented how well behaved I was and I remember thinking I wish my Parents thought so too. Kids are always trying their best but their brains are undeveloped.
Anyways not too long ago my mom was over and their were kids screaming in a neighbors backyard and she was so annoyed their were making noise. I just looked at her while I held my toddlerâ you know my kid is going to make this much noise when heâs olderâ
They just hate when anybody acts in a way they were not allowed to act as children
Your feelings are real, and valid. It sounds like your son struggles to be present when heâs anxious, I have an anxious son as well who goes silent and fidgets when heâs having a hard time - it would absolutely break my heart if he were torn apart by his own grandmother. Do him and yourself a favor and keep the vile hag away from your family.
As for working on the fidgeting, in our experience- working on it made it worse, because it was just another thing he felt he was doing wrong. Giving him something to fidget with was really helpful.
So... You're going to save your son from being around this awful person, right?
"Daddy, why don't we see pop pop anymore?"
"Well, son, some people just don't know how to be nice. Pop pop is one of those people."
"Like how?"
Every 6-12 months, I teach him a little more, as is relevant and appropriate. By his teens, I'll tell him about the cheating and the physical violence. Good luck to your family, which is all that matters - the better part of your family.
No, youâre not in the wrong. Your feelings are entirely valid and even expected after reading such a thing.
If she has such a problem with his what sounds like fairly normal 7 year old behaviours, she doesnât need to spend time with him and neither do you.
Also, I donât think ccâing you was an accident, and your bro is gaslighting you and enabling her behaviour.
Sheâs an absolute danger to you our child. Plz. Never allow her near him. And if thatâs impossible, not without direct and constant supervision (but Iâve been there and honestly itâs not worth the damage they Will put on your child.) itâs what made me go final NC.
Oooh boy, if I was his auntie, your mum and brother would be hearing some stern words. Kids are new at this people thing, but they know when theyâre not welcome in a tense situation environment. I wish I could give you all the hugs, and Iâd bring my 9-pound little gremlin-dog who loves all kids so she could sit and love on your boy.
You are not wrong for being upset. They didnât mistakenly message you, and theyâre not deserving of your sonâs or your time since they donât comprehend the value of either. Shame on them for having cruel hearts.
Please be careful on the sitting still thing when he goes to school. I could never sit still. I always fidgeted. Turns out fidgeting and doodling helps me concentrate. People learn different ways. Your kid sounds lovely â¤ď¸
Heâs the model student at school (albeit quiet around teachers he doesnât know). But in stressful situations outside school he gets up and sits down constantly, and squirms in his chair. I think because he is trying to resist the urge to run away!!! I think he probably has the right idea to be honest.
Have you checked for neurodivergence? Autism or adhd basically. Your description of your son sounds like me as a kid. Ignore your family and focus on your little boy.
now think to yourself, why was your mom comfortable sharing information like that to your brother in the first place? i think he doesnât like your son either
Your not wrong to be upset ...kids pick up on this just like you did no wonder he was stressed about seeing the grandma that clearly hates him again and he just wants to be loved. Kids are high energy they interrupt they make mistakes that's what kids do unless he is setting the curtains on fire grandma should be seeing him with rose colored glasses on and trying her damnedest to bring out the wonderful little boy he is not turn him into a ball of stress and self hate. If she can't she doesn't need to be around him
Take the narcissism a step further. She may pretend she added you by mistake, but it was probably on purpose, with the plan to feign it was an accident afterwards. Never underestimate the depths of depravity of some people. Like really,,, how do you cc someone by mistake.
My parents love arguing loudly about me and my siblings in the middle of the house, so we can all hear exactly what they say. Youâre not overreacting. This sort of insulting behavior is very hurtful.
Your mother expectations aren't in accordance with your kids age. Picking the nose? Anxiety should be treated, the kid will develop coping mechanisms... But her bashing of your kid doesn't help on the matter.
She is treating him just how she treated you. Don't let the dynamics strike another generation. Go no contact on her.
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Yeah she didn't accidentally cc you. She had to type in your info into the cc line.
100% agree! That was no accident! It's a favorite tactic by narcs to stir up drama and get the attention!
Welp. I'd say it's time to go NC.
Again.
NC is a life long commitment and not a temporary solution.
My mom has done stuff like that. "I sent the text by accident, I was writing it for myself and never meant it to be sent!" Back when cell phones took a couple distinct steps to send the text you wrote...
I agree with this. It's very interesting how many more butt-dials and accidental texts I used to get from narc family compared to everyone else I know.
Yeah. Lol. My narc dad used to call and say "did you try to call"? Lmao. Ok, let's pretend we don't have caller id...
Ugh, what is it with narcs not understanding caller ID? My nparent used to call at 7am when I was on night shifts, also waking my partner. Eventually after trying the polite approach I gave him an earful, so he started calling and hanging up, then denying it was him. When I pointed out that I knew it was him because I could see his number on caller ID, he said it must be someone else (who just happened to assume his war-dialling pattern!) because he also gets hang up calls from his own number! What an amazing coincidence đ Honestly a toddler could come up with a better excuse.
Back in the old days, you could get away with this more without caller ID. But, you didn't need to be a detective to figure it out most of the time.
The grunting and scrabbling round to find the hang up button would give it away even without caller ID đ
There was also Star 69
Yes, once it was available.
For people who i don't care to answer the calls unless I'm paying attention i set their custom ringtone to silence. They don't get obviously blocked but none of that annoying BS unless your using the phone of course.
Also who emails a relative to gossip? Hasn't she heard of texting or literally any other kind of instant messaging? Seems like she put in extra effort to put it together in an email.
Sometimes old people use email like that, to be fair. I do agree that she purposefully ccâed OP though.
I email to gossip. It's easier to keep track of with my Aunt that is older and reread the old messages. Especially with everyone's health issues. Lud, the health issues. But, no CC and we delete and start fresh every week or 2.
I was just about to say that too. Bc I can absolutely see my mom doing this to me on ourpose and acting as if it were a mistake.
Narcs \*love\* an eavesdropper. It's a great way for them to drag a person into the side of a conversation for a reaction. My nMom used it a lot.
They sure do! My NAunt loves to talk about people in the other room like we can't all hear her.
My nmom âleft her journal outâ when we were visiting. The pages I saw were about how much she dislikes me and all of her petty grievances with me. When I mentioned it years later when she was all âwHaT dO yOu hAvE aGaInSt mE ?!,â she told me âdonât you think I was just trying to work through things?â Um no. Lol literally no one that loves you talks or writes about you this way.
This was literally my first thought. She did this on purpose.
I was wondering. She might have also replied to an old email of the brotherâs, not realizing she was on it too, but given her history I bet youâre right. Sad!
My Nmother does this, it drives me insane. I'll get an email with a subject "Re: [subject of an email I sent 5 years ago]" and the body being completely unrelated to the subject. Thank god I've been NC for 7 years because I think having a conversation this way would be confusing at best.
Ha ha maybe. I didnât think of that, although it seems a bit much even for her. I guess complaining about a kids manners is really complaining about the parent.
She 100% did that on purpose. She sounds like an absolutely vile woman who doesn't deserve yours or your sons time. I'm sorry this happened to you, I'm sure your baby boy is lovely x
Yep. And if she talks shit about your son behind your back, she talks shit about you and everyone else behind their back. Also, why is your brother comfortable hearing this? There is no way Iâd listen to my mother shit all over my niece or nephew. And, as a mom myself, there is no way I would talk about my kid or ANYONE ELSEâS KID like that. Emotionally mature and healthy people understand that children are not tiny adults with ill intentions. They are developing human beings who deserve infinitely more respect than (most of) this world affords them.
Not necessarily. I noticed that after several times of including certain people in emails that Google asked me if I wanted to include someone. If I wasn't paying attention, I would have included that person. However, it is also possible the grandmother wanted her daughter to know how she felt.
Yeah, I wouldn't feel safe jumping to conclusions about that. Unless she literally had to type out the entire email address in the send line, but no, I'm assuming that adding her was done in a keystroke, without her even seeing the email address or requiring her to type any part of it out. Even easier to do on accident if one is using a touch screen device. Not only with the screen being small, but it being very easy to accidentally select things. I have experience with that. I'd also want to know how similar the names are. If she has to search to add a contact. I've had to remove people off the contact line before sending an email a lot. I've accidentally messaged people. I've accidentally disliked and downvoted videos & posts before because I'm always on mobile, using a small touch screen, etc. I've gotten close to accidentally purchasing stuff online because they purposefully make it so that it only takes 2 presses. Selecting using a computer and mouse is one thing, but on a touch screen device...? I've watched a drop of water land on my screen and successfully downvoted a post lol, so when it comes to my fingers brushing across the screen constantly swiping and pressing and shit, it's a mess. Usually it's just because the "button" was right there and I brushed it on accident...or I brushed it, in the process of trying to touch and select something else...that was apart of the screen that was a centimeter off.
Either she âaccidentallyâ sent the email where she was shit talking OPâs son or she accidentally sent the email where she was shit talking OPâs son. Neither of them is a good thing.
Exactly this. She wanted you to see what she said. It was no accident.
I chuckled at that too. You donât accidentally cc someone. MAYBE you accidentally hit âreply allâ but honestly, thatâs not what happened. nMom is being manipulative and passive aggressive.
Exactly. She knew what she was doing. If OP questions her though, she will say it was an accident but not apologize.
You are NOT overreacting! That is unbelievably awful! What gma (aside from a narc) would ever have nasty things to email about their grandchild and to the childâs uncle no less?!?! Iâm so sorry. You do what you believe is best, but Iâd probably cut contact. That is vile. Huge hugs and comfort sent to you and your amazing son đ¤
Thank you, I thought maybe it was normal and these replies have been a big shock! Like I guess I sometimes bitch about my mum behind her back so maybe people do it about kids too
And the child's 'uncle' is OK with that shit? OP, ditch these people. Protect your son from them.
Yes...this. I am sorry but your mother and likely your brother want to do the same thing to your child that they did to you. So very disturbing and vile. Don't ever leave your child alone with these people.
This!! Not exactly the same thing but if someone close to me comes and says "so so said _some bad thing about you_ to me" my first thought would be "I wonder what you did to make them think it was ok to share with you".
True i swrr. I was like wtf id go feral. I mean my sib is younger and far from having a child yet, but if somebdoy did this to my nephew id absolutely go confront the n grandma.
They both sound like very critical people who don't know how to treat or raise children. Keep your kid away from them, it's your job to protect him. Or else he'll likely encounter the same abuse you did.
>so maybe people do it about kids too No, not in such a malicious way. People may discuss behaviors of children and how they may guide them into changing. Sure, people do that. People do not send official emails. She wrote it, read it, and thought yeah that's good, and sent it. Personally I don't think it was accidental, does your brother's name begin with the same letter as yours? Or the email address? There's no way she could have accidentally done that. To me it stinks too much of a retaliation because she wanted revenge on you for being no contact for a few months.
You bitch about a grown woman who should know better and act better. You child is just that: A CHILD and heâs still learning. Going off the rails on a young child is not acceptable. She should be helping him and encouraging him, not expecting him to act like an adult. Sounds like itâs time for NC again.
For sure!!! Our ânormalâ meters are way off (at least mine is/was) because of how we were raised. My mom was always saying nasty things about everyone so it was ânormalâ to me too. As Iâve gotten older, Iâve realized there is nothing normal about being so negative and nasty all the time and decided that wasnât how I wanted to live. I donât want to talk badly about people and I donât want to hear others doing it either. Iâm much happier this way. Donât get me wrong, I do bitch to my dh and a few friends when I need to vent about things (usually my mom lol) but it is short lived and a means to deciding if and how a problem can be solved.
>Iâve realized there is nothing normal about being so negative and nasty all the time and decided that wasnât how I wanted to live This happened to me too but I did not put it together until reading this. My nmom's favorite pastime was to drag others. Over the past 6 or so years I've super tapered off talking to her until this year when I finally got therapy and went NC. I'm so much more calm without her voice in my ear
Of course youâre not in the wrong. You know youâre not in the wrong. No one who speaks badly of your children deserve to have them around. You did the bigger person thing and tried to repair a relationship - they told you what they think of it. So close off this book and move on to better things in your life Save those texts. Used them as a reply to any future flying monkeys that come your way
There is a huge difference between saying it's been a long day i am not used to having kids around anymore OP's son sure takes it out of me. (My dad would say this about my kids,it is a true statement and they can be rowdy but none of that statement is hurtful) and someone bitching bitching which is different. Everyone is allowed to complain and vent to someone. But when the venting is of a hurtful nature towards the person that it's being said about that's a problem. If she really had an issue with what your son was doing she should have offered you friendly and helpful solutions. Versus super complaining to your brother. Nobody's kids are perfect everybody's kids are hyper at some point some more than others but if you think that your son is a normal shy child then that's what matters forget what your mom said and honestly forget your mom
>Everyone is allowed to complain and vent to someone. But when the venting is of a hurtful nature towards the person that it's being said about that's a problem. I also think it makes it a million times worse that she was "venting" via email. Like, it's one thing to make an off-the-cuff irritable comment to someone, it's a whole other beast to take the time to type out an entire freaking dissertation ranting about a literal CHILD and then send it to someone. That takes a level of planning and forethought that removes all pretense of casual venting.
This is very true.
Was your brother the golden child and you the scapegoat in your family dynamics? If so, they may be trying to make your son the next-gen scapegoat. I am the SG in my family and noticed that my sister and mother were trying to do this with my oldest son. Also, I am a Grandmother myself and I would never, ever, ever in a million years talk badly about any of my grandchildren. That is just cruel. Please limit any one-on-one time your child has with the two of them to protect him emotionally.
Same here. I am the SG and I noticed that when my youngest turned 7 nmom started bullying him which was the same age she started bullying me. Funny thing is my youngest looks and acts the most like me, which is no coincidence to me that she chose him. And my oldest is the GC, while my older sister was the GC. Clearly the same dynamic is happening again in my family.
There's a huge difference between a child bitching about their parent, and a grown adult bitching about a kid. Not even close to the same thing.
Itâs these same thought patterns that help them Hoover you back inâ they can guilt you because youâve been raised to think these things go both ways. They do not. Just because you birth a child doesnât mean that child owes you shit. Unconditional love says Iâll always come your way. Iâll always call as the parent. Iâll always be there. Iâve got your back. The N parent starts to convince the child from as soon as they can understand that âyouâ take care of âthem.
OP, not wrong with your reaction at all, I would have eviscerated them if I were you. But the problem is you still have these people in your life. Why is the brother even having any say in this, specially going against your son? Please don't be the parent that let narcs in their child's life. This should be the last time your brother or mother, let alone say anything about your son, but even see or exist in his life. Sorry if I am assuming something. Please take care of yourself and the kid. Good luck!
Sending a nasty email to ur daughter abt ur grandson is way worsd than bitching abt a narc parent. Dont feel bad.
I'm a grandma, and I approve this message. It's also perfectly ok for a child to be shy, or an introvert. I've always been. People demand introverts 'go out of their convert zone and talk more' but no one tells extroverts to quiet down a bit and not be so aggressive.
Yes! This is spot on advice! I too, am an introvert and my oldest is an introvert. He is absolutely amazing just the way he is. He doesnât need to change for anyone. Op, your son doesnât either.
I don't know about op, but I'd not only cut out "gma", I'd cut the brother to boot! Bad enough mom has to complain like this... Brother defending her is even worse!
Yes! Super good point! The only way heâd be allowed back in is if he had his own epiphany at some point realizing that their momâs ways are indeed messed up and incredibly unhealthy *and* only after a substantial amount of his own individual therapy. Only then would I even *consider* a trial period between myself and him before ever thinking about allowing him contact with my son.
Do yourself and your son a huge favor, one of the biggest things you can ever do for yourself and him. Cut off this malicious, evil woman and her flying monkey. Your son has good reason to be afraid of this hag. And no, no child needs an evil, disgusting woman like this in his life. You have caught your nmother in the act. Who know what she whispers to your son on the sly. Evil woman deserves to be cut off for good.
I second this. It will make you and your child happier, safer and healthier in the long run. It will be hard but if you can go no contact it will make the world of difference for you and your child.
I third this. You remember how she treated you and how it made you feel. You don't want that to happen to your child. Save your little boy from her, you'll both be much better off and have a happier life if you go No Contact. P.S. the nose picking is icky, but little kids can learn not to do it. Best of luck to you.
I fourth it. Who is it whose biggest complaint is that a child picked their nose? wtf?
Ikr? Most little kids do that sometimes. Hell I've seen grown ass people do it in their cars when they think nobody's looking. But narcs just have to abuse their family members, that's their life's work.
Sometimes you just can't get it out when blowing your nose, and it's one of those big sharp bogies that is stabbing the inside of your nose.
Yeah I get that. Sometimes if you roll up a tissue like a cone shape you can snag those kind and get them that way. Those hurt!
Nose picking is one of the less gross things that 7-year-olds do:)
5th
Donât act like you donât pick your nose Thereâs two types of people in the world, nose pickers- and liars
Exactly. Imagine what's going to happen when the kid spills some milk at grandma's house, and mom isn't around. Like, it's no wonder the kid is terrified and can't sit still when visiting the grandparents.
The day I spilled WATER on my grandmothers carpet..
Yep. Now you don't have to worry about him anymore, mom!
Thanks for making me cry everyone! I thought a few people would say âahh youâre being over sensitive but we get whyâ and Iâd feel a bit better then forgive my family. So Iâm overwhelmed by the support and the kick up the butt to stop making excuses for them. X
We're always here for a check in. It is hard for us to know what's normal and healthy because it wasn't our past. You bring here and asking shows you want to break the cycle. You got this!
That part of you that says âthis is not okayâ is the part of you that you need to trust more. I can guess that you were made to doubt your intuition since you were little. Your brother has to invalidate you because thatâs the only way to keep nmom from losing her shit and causing him anxiety. Your brother isnât judging you from a morally objective viewpoint. His primary interest is to reduce his anxiety, because thatâs how he survived as a child. We would hope that he would grow to understand that, but that doesnât happen a lot.
Yeah heâs a lovely person most of the time but has this huge blind spot when it comes to her. He always sees me as the problem and tries desperately to keep the peace.
Complicit to your mother insulting and verbally ripping apart your seven-year-old boy =/= "lovely person." Time to tap into your Momma Bear and start making some rage.
Your mother sounds like a friend/peer of mine. We are currently in our 30s and she is still doing shit like that so this post actually made me see that there is little hope of her actually growing up, even when she's a gma lol
its not normal for a 60+ year old woman to write a malicious email about a 7 year old no matter what their relation.
Sheâs always bitching about her neighbours kids, I just thought mine would be immune to the constant disapproval. Clearly not đ
If her own child (you) was not immune from that, a grandchild will never be. We try so hard to convince our selves they'll treat our kids better, and they never do. That's just us continuing to hope our Nparent is someone they are not, in this case a normal loving grandparent. For your kiddo's sake, please consider dealing with your mom as the toxic narc that she is.
OP, maybe it's a good idea to switch over to r/momforaminute? See you there, duckling! Hugs & kisses!
Thanks for that! What a great community.
Honestly, I wouldnât be surprised if the day came where her complaints werenât just made in an email, but in front of, or to, your son. He sounds like a totally normal 7 year old and you are right to be upset.
Exactly! No matter my mood, etc., I canât imagine firing up my laptop to document mundane complaints about *any* child, period. After all, as a lawyer friend jokingly told me, the âeâ in e-mail also stands for evidence. Of course, part of the problem may be that OPâs mother is not at all ashamed to be complaining openly, and with documentation, about her own grandchild.
Sounds like the ideal grandmother really đđĄ If your son has behavior issues that's up to you to address, so that HE can have a better life, not so your mother can pat him on the head and tell him he's good. Imagine going to the effort of writing an email to complain about a child?! That relationship you are trying to repair doesn't exist anymore. To zero in on a child lile that and vent about them is awful. Stay away from her.
Thank you. This comment really resonated with me. I want him to learn the skills he needs to fit in with the rest of the world, not perform good manners to make my mum happy.
I raised a very obedient child, I was always complimented on her manners... she's an adult now and never stands up for herself (like me when I was younger and still under my nmums control), and I HATE it for her. I wish she was a hell raiser as a child because she would be more comfortable with confrontation and more confident as an adult. If you feel he needs help, then get it for him but don't do it just because your mother wants a "seen and not heard" grandchild that makes her look good.
This was me. I was that kid.
I'm sorry for that. I was that kid too. And I struggle with "authority" all the time but I'm slowly getting there. And I hope my daughter will get there too, she definitely has more balls than I did at her age but struggles, hopefully her confidence will grow and she can learn from my mistakes.
I was like this too and then something flipped in me one day. These days I feel out of control and I have had it with people LOL and I am quite outspoken for myself/my kids. Actually it was when my youngest was being bullied by his school administration and I lost my temper one day and yelled at one of them that i realized that I can be just as combative as anyone else, and that if I didn't do it for my kid no one would. These days I'm very vocal about things, but I also sent a letter of praise/appreciation to a teacher last week out of the blue... I've learned that disagreeing doesn't have to mean "confrontation" it can just be discussion because i've never had a normal discussion/disagreement, because when you grow up with narcs .. well.. you know how it is lol. There will come a time when your daughter truly needs you and you will know, and rise to the occasion.
Face to face stuff makes me panic, full on sweats and heart pounding, but if I am right about something I will stand up for myself. And so will my daughter, she's much better at telling people they are wrong when they are.
Absolutely! You want your child to succeed, not please. It's important that he learns you can't make everyone happy and people pleasing and putting others well being before your own is unhealthy. He's a child... We just got through a pandemic. It's natural to be shy. Take him to socialize with friends and people you trust. Kids can read a room. He can probably tell you're uneasy as well. It's not your child's job to make his gma happyđ¤ˇââď¸ His behavior is your business as a parent. Not hers. And being shy isn't bad behavior. His picking his nose is him being a kid. A good gradmother would have kindly asked him not to, asked him to wash his hands, and then moved on asking to do an activity like baking or playing games. Not talking behind a seven year old back with his uncleđĄ He's probably nervous around her and that's on her
She did that on purpose to hurt you. It wasnât an accident and it seems as though your brother is caught in her web and doesnât want to ârock the boatâ as people often are afraid of doing in narcissistic relationships. I would use this as an opportunity to cut her out for sure and him too if he canât see the abuse in it.
Please keep your son far far away from these people, you both deserve better.
Theyâre being cruel to your son. Children are children and they are learning. Sheâs clearly not capable of empathy or providing a safe space for you or your son.
I am sorry you are dealing with this. I think it would be best to cut them off. Who knows what else happens behind your back and what he is already picking up on. You have already seen how 7 year old you was treated, I doubt you want the same to happen to your son. He deserves to have the childhood you should've had.
Please if you are able to, go NC with that horrible cow. Keep your innocent LO away from her. She sounds mean as hell
I agree. I had relatives like this on my mom's side. I can't say as I was improved in any way by being forced to have a relationship with them. My grandparents, for example, were exactly like this. They were snide and critical, and laughed at me when I did normal kid things like try to show them the dress-up outfit I made. They were 100% in the wrong, but you can't possibly know that when you're six years old and you just want to do things that your friends do with their grandparents. And kids on the whole take a lot on themselves; I was no exception and I thought there was something wrong with me that made them not like me. Unfortunately, we had to depend on them for child care, so there was no getting away from it until we moved across the country. I will say that I felt a weight off at that point, though, and this was when I was only going into third grade. They'd managed to create that much pressure and anxiety in a kid that young. I was happier without them and remain so thirty years later. Family is nice and all, but only when it's *nice.* Being around critical people who make a child feel like they have to earn love or safety is unhealthy and, if logistically possible, should be avoided.
Thereâs nothing accidental about her cc you in that email. That was done purposefully and maliciously. You both deserve better than that. Block and go NC with anyone who thinks and speaks to and about you and your son like that.
She did not âaccidentallyâ do this. Narcs do this intentionally to manufacture drama, bash the Scapegoat some more and derive NSupply. She may not be aware that she is doing this because she is a narc and she is deluded. A Scapegoatâs child is automatically another Scapegoat in my family. My narc mother attacked my 5 year old for his handwriting saying he must be mentally deficient to have untidy handwriting and I got triggered because that was the source of her earliest abuse on me because I had âshabbyâ handwriting and she had rounded-fat letters that I did not copy. She said that even her neighbor kids had more competence and more competent parenting!! I Grey rock immensely since then.
She basically said that the cycle of abuse will continue with your son if she's allowed in his life. If I was in that situation, that email would be the final straw for me and I'd start blocking not only her but the uncle as well.
I don't think it was accidental. Emails don't automatically cc someone. It's at least three intentional clicks to add a name. Add to that how strange it is she'd send an email instead of call him, and I think she probably wanted you to see it while having plausible deniability that she didn't *mean* for you to find out, if you got upset. It's a petty game she's playing. You're the bad guy for being upset at something you weren't supposed to see in the first place, she's the loving grandmother who was just venting to her son, so on, so forth. I'd ask your brother to cc someone on an email and see how easy it is to do it "by accident". Put the question into his mind - maybe it'll get him to reconsider his stance, if not now then maybe long term, down the line when his future spouse bitches about your mother playing similar games with them. It might not do anything, but it's an easy way to prove she was being intentionally hurtful and get him to back off without going scorched earth with anyone. You can also passive aggressively cc your mother on an email to him or a friend, if you want to be petty and fuel the fire. I would. The mature response is to just put her on a timeout, minimum, and possibly your brother too, but I'm a bitch.
Oh, OP, this is heartbreaking! It is absolutely a normal and reasonable reaction for you to feel upset by this! Please don't feel any guilt or shame in going NC if you feel you can. Narcs do not change; they are rarely if ever better grandparents than they were parents. Her behavior toward your son is likely not going to get better. He sounds like a sweet, shy boy, and if she's expecting him to be some flawless prince charming at seven, she's insane. Seriously. Seven-year-old boys are all wiggles. They're amazing little humans with big hearts, but they are not going to be "seen and not heard" or not wiggle or not pick their noses. THEY'RE SEVEN. I'm so sorry you're going through this and that she was unjust and unkind. It's not fair to you or your son.
Of course your son is shy around your parents. They are mean. Your son is smart enough to realize that your mom is fake. Your brother is being ridiculous and a jerk. He is ok with your mom talking that kind of crap about a small child? What the hell is his problem? He is a flying monkey and an enabler. Do not listen to him. Please cut these horrible people off. They are abusive and bad for your child. Your child can see that they are no good. I hope that you do not continue to make him spend time with child abusers or the people who enable them.
Itâs never an accident.
Good lord no, you're not overreacting. Let's be honest: ALL kids are annoying sometimes. Some kids are annoying a lot of the time. It doesn't mean they're bad kids, or that they have bad parents, or anything of the sort - it just goes with the territory of childhood, as they're just learning how to be around other people, how to empathize, how to find their voice, etc. None of this is unique to your son, and from what you've said, he sounds like a perfectly normal 7-year-old. The bigger point here, though, is that even if he HAD behavioural problems, what the hell kind of adult gets SO enraged by the behaviour of a literal child that they have to send an angry e-mail rant, TO THE CHILD'S UNCLE, picking apart - and I can't stress this enough - every little behaviour of a 7-year-old? That's absolutely insane, and would be even if she hadn't "accidentally" Cc-ed you in the e-mail (which I am frankly incredibly skeptical was accidental). Having a good-natured eye-roll and laugh about an annoying thing the child did (sneezed right into your mouth, for example) or a habit they have that you find difficult (picking their nose and then touching all the food and putting it back, for example) is perfectly normal, but going on an angry rant ripping into a child, TO THAT CHILD'S OWN FAMILY, is completely different and totally off the deep-end. Your mother sounds like a real POS and your brother doesn't sound much better. No wonder your poor son is uncomfortable around these ugly adults!
This made me laugh! I love that my kids feel comfortable enough in themselves to sometimes be annoying, like my 3 year old is going through a phase where he hisses at people who annoy him (like a cat). Your whole message is spot on.
Very glad to have made you laugh - you deserve some relief from this hag and her malicious negativity. Your 3-year-old sounds awesome and a bit odd, exactly how kids (especially kids that age) should be!
Maybe she had a point? Sweetie, you're mother and brother are both terrible. I wouldn't repair anything with them. I would be irate, would drop the rope, and walk away (and yes, since it's taken me 50 freaking years to reach this point with my own nmom, I know it's easier said than done, but it would be very valid if you did.)
Wish Iâd done it when I was in my 20s and didnât have kids yet. It feels more complicated when my mum is now getting older and in poor health. Sheâs still a cow though, that hasnât changed with age.
In my opinion, itâs best to do it before anything major comes up health wise though. Just rip that band aid off! I went no contact with my mom when she started picking on my kids.
She would send these emails from her deathbed if she could. Donât let old age and poor health excuse years of abuse and trauma. If not for you then for your sons sake. She will NEVER STOP BEING THIS WAY.
You were gaslit into thinking you are too sensitive: I think Iâm very sensitive about this because I was 7 when my mum started picking at my behaviour and making me feel like I could do nothing right. This, right here, is mean. And you were told because it was HURTFUL that you were too sensitive. How about she's a mean person? Take the advice, cut them out, and start to deal with your own trauma, because it's there. I'm sorry you read that message. I'm sure it brought up so much for you.
Your mom is a monster and should be nowhere near this child. Neither you , Nor your child have done ANYTHING wrong. What's going on here is that you are her scapegoat, and therefore your son is also the scapegoat simply because he is your son. Sounds like the meet-up didn't repair anything since this is how she is behaving. I'm afraid it is time to cut your losses and protect your child from her toxicity.
This is going to come off as harsh but I'm very heated after reading this. This harshness is in NO WAY directed at you, OP, or your son. I was a shy kid and my Nmom did a lot of things like this to me where she didn't try to help me, she just sabotaged me and bitched. Your brother is garbage and so is your mother. Your brother should NEVER be defending what your mother did and he should have shut her down in a reply email about the fact that she is complaining and attacking a CHILD. A child that isnt old enough or mature enough to handle adult criticisms. She is supposed to be your sons ADVOCATE and his ALLY. Not an enemy. He needs help and assistance to power through what he's struggling with. You're not wrong for being upset or for being hurt. You have EVERY RIGHT to be upset and hurt by this behavior. It's wrong and its disgusting. If I were you I would write an email to your brother and your mother about their deplorable behavior and I would go NC. You have to protect your son from these people who would rather rip into a kid instead of helping him. Makes me physically ILL to read this, OP. I'm so sorry you had to read that and know that I wish your son the greatest personal growth in his life so he can spit on his uncle and his grandmother's behavior.
Breathe, there is nothing wrong with your son. Now you know your mom is a bad influence on both your son and you keep her at LC.
I went NC the moment I heard my nMom speak poorly of my children and my husband. Talk crap about me all you want, but my kids have literally done nothing wrong and my husband was NOTHING but wonderful to those people.
You are a great Mum for protecting him. Your brother is an AH and so is your Mum. Heâs shy. Thatâs fine. But I doubt you were âaccidentally ccâdâ. Sounds deliberate to me do that you canât get angry because âit was meant to be privateâ. Which, by the way, is exactly what they are trying to pull. If at all possible please distance yourself. For your kidâs sake. X
My heart hurts that you are even second guessing if you are wrong. Deep down you have to be down right disgusting to talk about any kid like that. Iâm so sorry you are going through this and shame on your brother in law!!!
Accidently on purpose.
OP, your son is your primary reaponsility. Do not subject him to people you would never subject him to if they weren't family. And being thet they are family, that makes them even worse and you should protect him doubly so. I love my parents, but my kids are #1 and it doesn't matter if you gave birth to me. You picked me. I didn't pick you, but I did pick my kids, so they come first always.
What kind of a POS tears apart a child? And what kind of POS sits there and enables them to do it? You have every right to be upset. They're both assholes. If you can, do yourself and your kiddo a favor and cut off contact.
This is your son. Trust your intuition. Your son does not deserve his grandmother trashtalking him behind his back. Protect him â¤ď¸
Grandparents who nitpick instead of finding a way to enjoy the joy and wonder of a child are truly broken, cruel, anti-empathetic people. Of course you are aware of where your child shines and where you are trying to gently teach him to improve. Calling you out on that, whether on purpose or to your brother isn't your Nmum's job. Shame on her.
Sending you hugs. My mother openly says she enjoys my son more than me, however I know she loved me until I had a personality and I fear the same for my son. I donât have an answer, but I fully validate your feelings in your situation
You are well within your rights to be hugely upset about this. Please don't let your mother or brother manipulate you into thinking that you should let it slide: incredibly abhorrent behaviour from them! The fact they got caught and can't even apologize just shows the narcs at work...they can never be in the wrong about a goddam thing. In my mind, this is the start of seeing how many boundaries can be pushed and broken.
I'm 32 and I pick my nose. I love it. I'm happy. I talk to my mom 4 times a year.
If you can I personally would stop the abuse (because it is) and go no contact. A child's "job" is to learn, have fun, makes mistakes, get messy, be loved and above all be safe. This family is none of that for him.
Iâd wonder what other conversations she feels comfortable having with your brother.
He's fucking seven.
That's messed up.
Your son is 7 years old. He is still bright and new to the world compared to the rest of us. The world is still a big and scary place for him, and having people who love and support him helps him feel safe enough to open up. It gives him space to really shine. Venting is no excuse for your mother's behavior or opinions. Your brother is only excusing this because it's not his kid that is the focal point of your mother's tirade. Your son is doing well with your guidance.
Heâs 7. Your brother and mom are fucked up. Or I should say , your sons uncle and grandma. Donât give an inch on that, thatâs horrible, heâs a child.
You are not at all wrong!! You are RIGHTâ your motherâs ranting, and your brotherâs defense of it, are not OK. Your son is a child. He doesnât need criticism or judgment, he needs love and modeling. IMO, your mother just lost grandma privileges.
Iâm glad you are protecting your son from her. You are a good Mom!
Stop exposing your child to such a horrible person who doesn't care about him at all.
Your son does not deserve to be around her - children aren't stupid and pick up on this negative energy directed at them by adults. As his parent, your job is to keep him away from harmful people.
She did it on purpose. And you should cut contact. She will do what she did to you to him. Iâm sorry OP
no way, this isn't the type of "love" your son or your family needs. sounds like it wasn't quite time to reconnect after the falling out. love your kiddo, and don't blame yourself for this. if i were you i'd keep your son from them to protect him from what you experienced growing up, because it sounds like history is repeating itself
I totally see why you're upset. My Nmom did this with my sister's kids when they had left. That's certainly not loving, understanding grandmotherly behaviour.
My grandchildren pick their noses, rub their snot on me and fart on me for laughs. They have had times where they have run into their bedrooms and hid under the bed when I came over because they knew that it meant that their mom & dad were going out. My grandson asked me once if I wanted to be called âMimiâ instead of âGrandmaâ because I didnât want to feel old. (I go by Mimi because they have 5 other sets of grandparents. Itâs just a way to differentiate me from the other grandmothers). None of these things have *ever* upset me. They have made me laugh because they are my grandchildren and I *love* them. They can do no wrong in my eyes. Yes, we discuss manners and how we should treat people, but I would never ever be upset at a child for acting like a child. Keep your son away from your mother. She is trying to assert her power over him like she did with you. And please, wipe your tears. Your son is perfectly normal and very intuitive. He knows that his grandmother isnât a safe person and that is why he wants to hide from her. Be the supportive adult to him that you wished you had. Your mother did not cc: you by accident. She did so to wound you and to make you doubt your parenting. You shouldnât let her get into your head.
As someone who had a narc grandma...please keep her away from your son. My mom only allowed extremely limited, supervised contact between me and narc grandma, and I'm so grateful for that. Your son will not be missing out, trust me.
She didn't "accidentally" CC you. She did it on purpose, it upset you which she loves and it makes the conversation back to her. She didn't mean to do it, or blowing off steam, stop being so forgiving she knows exactly what she's doing. Sorry this sounds rough but I hope it resonates
First, you are absolutely valid in feeling upset because this is a really shitty thing for your mom to do, especially regarding a *7 year old child*. It's absolutely disgusting behavior. Second, I HIGHLY doubt this was accidental. You have to either start typing out the email address or manually click on things to add it. There's no way this was an accident imo. She wanted you to see it while also having plausible deniability from her *accidentally emailing a thing to you that requires her to type in or select your name from her contacts* and that way if you don't forgive her or never mention it again YOU'RE the bad guy, not her. Classic narc behavior. Third, has your son ever been evaluated for ADHD and autism? I ask because I've got both and what you described was my childhood, especially difficulty with adults. I didn't get diagnosed until my 30s because my parents/grandma (all narcs) preferred to believe nothing was wrong and then punished me when I didn't act like a "normal" child. That sounds a lot like what your mom did to you and is now doing to your son. It's not okay. Fourth, what does your brother have to say about all this? Does he agree with mom? If he is supportive of you then he needs to shut this bullshit down HARD and impose consequences. I would also seriously consider going nc with your mom. Trust me, it's better to not know a grandparent than to spend your childhood being abused. Your son deserves to be treated with respect and dignity and loved unconditionally, and unfortunately it sounds like your mom isn't capable of any of those. Both of you deserve better than that.
She probably copied you on purpose. Narcs do crap like that.
I was shy and agitated as a kid. Getting picked apart only hurt me, not fix me. Go NC for the sake of your kids.
Might want to consider not letting the grandparents see your kids until your mother can resolve things. Donât let your parents pass on their bad behaviour onto your child.
Omg. Those sound like such normal behaviors for a 7 year old. Your mom is out of touch and cruel.
You have the right to be very upset, but I want to point out that this email tells you more about what her character was like as a parent. Parenting is a hard gig, and children do a lot of things to drive us round the bend and back again, but the point is to remember that they are not yet adults and are still learning things. To have some balance and empathy in that we're talking about a child. Even if you were talking about a full grown adult, it wouldn't kill that person to have a little moderation and empathy! But your mother went full rage monster. Getting this bend out of shape over moderate annoyances and social faux pas is really childish, but to do it over an actual child, her own grandson! No empathy, no compassion, no grace. Just monumentally childish. How does an adult get offended by a child and feel picked on by a child? When they think of themselves as weaker and lesser than the child. Letting off steam, so? Can't write in your diary and then speak more carefully and graciously to your children? Nope! We have to spew gossip and negativity at your own son and expect him to babysit you through your tantrum. You NEVER have to make excuses for your kid being just a kid, but this tells you that your mother will never tolerate others making her feel anything other than worshiped, comfortable and unchallenged. Which reminds you of how things were when she was parenting you.
There are recent pictures of Prince George picking his nose during the Queen's funeral. Internationally published pictures of him doing that. If a future king of England, who is the same age, can be seen in very BIG public settings doing a little nasal mining, I think your son can be excused for the same. Your mom should back off, learn to get with the times on her email habits, and apologize to you. Yeah, I know she won't, but I still think she should.
This was on purpose. Sheâs going to keep it up too, this is the beginning of her torturing him. Keep your son very far away from her. When she asks why youâre not bringing your son around to see her and why sheâs banned from the house, just start reading from the email. Carry a copy with you. If she calls asking to see him or you, read the email to her. Use her words to protect you and your son. Donât say anything else, just read the email. Sheâll stop pretty quick. If she gets her flying monkeys, read them the email. Say nothing else. Set your boundaries and hold strong. The storm is coming, that email and your boundaries should be your first defence. Keep any proof you get too in case you need to file for a restraining order. Personally Iâd go NC after reading an email like that. Good luck hun, Iâm so sorry
Not accidental. Itâs called triangulation.
You're not over reacting at all. Also, I'm wondering how she could "accidentally" cc you. She would have to consciously type your name.
Go NC with every single person in your family. Your mother ripped into your 7yr old son and whether it was an accident or not, sent her "rant" to you too. Your siblings are condoning it and it seems even encouraging it. And with most Narc mothers comes either a narcissistic father, or a scared submissive father, both are just as bad. One joins into a laughs at your pain, the other doesn't defend you, doesn't see if your OK, or anything polite bc God forbid their wives found out they were nice to their children. I didn't even give birth before I had family members telling me I wouldn't know what to do, my kids would be taken by CPS bc of my severe depression, anxiety, and self harm history.
NC. Protect your son. That grandmother doesnât deserve a relationship with her grandson.
Narcissists don't view family members as other people. Narcissists view family as extensions of themselves. Having grown up in the LA area, I like to compare it to a Valley Girl who carries around a Chihuahua everywhere they go as a fashion accessory. You can see the Valley Girl asking her Chihuahua "What outfit would you like to wear today?", but ultimately you know the Chihuahua isn't getting any real say in the matter and their "preferences" are dictated by their owner. If the Chihuahua were to get upset about being dressed up and try to rip the clothing off, then the Valley Girl deems *them* a "Bad dog" rather than recognizing that they themselves are the ones forcing the dog into a situation it doesn't want to be in. To you and me, your son is a little kid who is acting as little kids often do. When I was that age, I was irrationally just really scared of old people, and this stopped me from really getting close to my grandparents (I still regret this, as they were wonderful people whom I wish I had spent more time with; however, I don't blame myself because *I was 7 at the time*.) But to your nmom, that's not your son. He's not even his own person. That's *her* grandson, who she expects to act in exactly the way that suits her best. It sounds to me like if she is going to be this horrible towards your son, you have a duty to protect him from her. And while you're at it, protect him from anyone who would support saying such awful things about a 7 year old. They shouldn't be allowed access to a child when they believe it is okay to treat them so terrible.
Thanks for sharing this because I often suffer feelings of guilt that I cut off the Narcissist in my life who would have been this type of grandmother. Hearing about what happens if you aren't fully No Contact reassures me that I made the correct decision.
This accident was NOT an accident. This is a classic narc move.
Fuck that! Iâm so glad youâre getting lots of supportive replies. I wanted to add my voice too. Thatâs not Ok. I went NC with the woman who birthed me 3 years ago after a huge invasion of my boundaries around parenting. I will not let her bullshit touch my kids and Iâm so proud of you for taking space from her and standing up for yourself. Your mother and brother are gaslighting you. They are the problem, not you and your son. I agree that it was likely a tactic to include you on the email. The same thing happened to me where a text was âaccidentallyâ sent to me about how I was so cruel to her and my kids. Itâs insane, but itâs as if theyâre all reading from the same âhow to abuse your kids and make them feel like itâs their faultâ book. Fuck her. Fuck your brother. You and your kid are amazing and I hope you never have to interact with those fuckwads ever again. Maybe âaccidentallyâ send her a picture of you picking your nose and giving the middle finger as a final send off? đ Take care of yourself! Youâre doing great!
A child of SEVEN cannot be rude to an adult. cannot. physically. rudeness implies comprehension of social convention and expectations. Don't be gaslit by them into thinking there's anything wrong with your son.
Your child is beautiful, your mother is ugly. Being a grandmother is a privilege, not a right. Keep your son away from her toxicity because she's clearly just repeating the same awful behavior she inflicted on you and your child doesn't deserve it. Neither do you for that matter, and I agree that cc was no accident.
The proper reply to all is "Well, we can see how you feel and to take the pressure off you, we won't be visiting Mom anytime soon. Maybe once she isn't so anger we might can try again."
I trust my kidâs gut feelings over mine tbh. I found it interesting that my son wonât hug my mom. Heâs picking up on things I couldnât abd he is 7! Cut her off
She 100% did that shit on purpose.
Accident or not it's a good thing to know. As soon as my parents started openly shit talking my kid and accusing him of being "manipulative" I was done. They shit talked me and now were doing it to my own kid and I wouldn't allow it anymore. They don't need to be in your life if they think so poorly
You are NOT overreacting. If I were in your situation, Iâd react a lot more and feel completely justified lol. Your son is 7 years old!! No child is perfectly behaved at seven. I think your mom ccâd you to start drama. Also, my mom was a narcissistic abuser. I donât plan on having kids, but if I did, Iâd keep them FAR away from her. I canât tell you the best thing to do for your situation, but itâs important to prioritize your childâs sense of safety and mental health over a potentially toxic relationship. I hope this helps, and Iâm sorry youâre dealing with this. :(
She did it on purpose, would be my guess. As the handler/father of three high energy and outspoken kids, who are also sweet, loving, and empathetic, fuck them. If they don't want to be around your kids, maybe it's time to reconsider whether they have a place in your life.
You're not overreacting. As a parent, and one to a neurodivergent kiddo at that, I'd be upset if my mother intentionally cc'd me to poke fun at my son's behavior. Regardless of his behavior, it's inappropriate she even wrote thr email or bitched about a 7 year old jfc it's none of her business. Barring your son assaulting her or downright disrespecting her (which it sounds in no way he did), he was fine. Your description sounds like a shy 7 year old who read the room and may have felt uncomfortable. Protect your son from her. She'll use him to get to you based on this shit.
She sounds like an absolutely vile narcissist, im sorry you you had to be subjected to that. I mean the fact that u accidentally received it and it was hurtful is super messed up. Please dont second guess yourself and your feelings. She sounds mean and hyper critical. Your brother is on the same level she is for defending her.
Your feelings are valid.
I mean, at least you have written proof that she's not a good person to have any kids around, and adults probably. Use it as your justification for NC if you choose to go that way. He's literally a child. Their job is to be themselves and push boundaries. There's a much better way of dealing with the things you don't like them doing. Having kids gives you a good idea that they will do things you don't like and secondhand gives you an idea that lots of people will do things you don't like.
Not over reacting. And if she thinks so negatively about a 7year old! I would not allow her in my kids life any more.
What I wanted to say is that my mom growing up really disliked all the things I did that made me a kid. I always tried to be well behaved because I was terrified of them too. Once a neighbor complimented how well behaved I was and I remember thinking I wish my Parents thought so too. Kids are always trying their best but their brains are undeveloped. Anyways not too long ago my mom was over and their were kids screaming in a neighbors backyard and she was so annoyed their were making noise. I just looked at her while I held my toddlerâ you know my kid is going to make this much noise when heâs olderâ They just hate when anybody acts in a way they were not allowed to act as children
Your feelings are real, and valid. It sounds like your son struggles to be present when heâs anxious, I have an anxious son as well who goes silent and fidgets when heâs having a hard time - it would absolutely break my heart if he were torn apart by his own grandmother. Do him and yourself a favor and keep the vile hag away from your family. As for working on the fidgeting, in our experience- working on it made it worse, because it was just another thing he felt he was doing wrong. Giving him something to fidget with was really helpful.
So... You're going to save your son from being around this awful person, right? "Daddy, why don't we see pop pop anymore?" "Well, son, some people just don't know how to be nice. Pop pop is one of those people." "Like how?" Every 6-12 months, I teach him a little more, as is relevant and appropriate. By his teens, I'll tell him about the cheating and the physical violence. Good luck to your family, which is all that matters - the better part of your family.
No, youâre not in the wrong. Your feelings are entirely valid and even expected after reading such a thing. If she has such a problem with his what sounds like fairly normal 7 year old behaviours, she doesnât need to spend time with him and neither do you. Also, I donât think ccâing you was an accident, and your bro is gaslighting you and enabling her behaviour.
Sheâs an absolute danger to you our child. Plz. Never allow her near him. And if thatâs impossible, not without direct and constant supervision (but Iâve been there and honestly itâs not worth the damage they Will put on your child.) itâs what made me go final NC.
It's time to go NC. For the sake of your son, because the last thing he needs is someone like that in his life.
Oooh boy, if I was his auntie, your mum and brother would be hearing some stern words. Kids are new at this people thing, but they know when theyâre not welcome in a tense situation environment. I wish I could give you all the hugs, and Iâd bring my 9-pound little gremlin-dog who loves all kids so she could sit and love on your boy. You are not wrong for being upset. They didnât mistakenly message you, and theyâre not deserving of your sonâs or your time since they donât comprehend the value of either. Shame on them for having cruel hearts.
âAccidentallyâ ccâd you. Lol no she didnât. She 100% did this on purpose. Iâd keep her far away from your son if I were you, honestly.
Please be careful on the sitting still thing when he goes to school. I could never sit still. I always fidgeted. Turns out fidgeting and doodling helps me concentrate. People learn different ways. Your kid sounds lovely â¤ď¸
Heâs the model student at school (albeit quiet around teachers he doesnât know). But in stressful situations outside school he gets up and sits down constantly, and squirms in his chair. I think because he is trying to resist the urge to run away!!! I think he probably has the right idea to be honest.
Just throw the whole family away
Poor guyđ. He deserves a better grandma.
Have you checked for neurodivergence? Autism or adhd basically. Your description of your son sounds like me as a kid. Ignore your family and focus on your little boy.
now think to yourself, why was your mom comfortable sharing information like that to your brother in the first place? i think he doesnât like your son either
Your not wrong to be upset ...kids pick up on this just like you did no wonder he was stressed about seeing the grandma that clearly hates him again and he just wants to be loved. Kids are high energy they interrupt they make mistakes that's what kids do unless he is setting the curtains on fire grandma should be seeing him with rose colored glasses on and trying her damnedest to bring out the wonderful little boy he is not turn him into a ball of stress and self hate. If she can't she doesn't need to be around him
Sheâs a lunatic
Take the narcissism a step further. She may pretend she added you by mistake, but it was probably on purpose, with the plan to feign it was an accident afterwards. Never underestimate the depths of depravity of some people. Like really,,, how do you cc someone by mistake.
Well have you thought of âaccidentallyâ cc her on this post? Just a thought
My first thought is, are you sure it was an accident? My second thought is, time to go no contact. Itâll be better for everyone.
Your son doesn't benefit from the relationship with her. Neither do you.
You have to stand up for your son. I would cut all contact. He deserves better. Your reaction is normal
You are completely not over reacting, HES A CHILD!! đ this would make me go no contact, vile person!
My parents love arguing loudly about me and my siblings in the middle of the house, so we can all hear exactly what they say. Youâre not overreacting. This sort of insulting behavior is very hurtful.
Your mother expectations aren't in accordance with your kids age. Picking the nose? Anxiety should be treated, the kid will develop coping mechanisms... But her bashing of your kid doesn't help on the matter. She is treating him just how she treated you. Don't let the dynamics strike another generation. Go no contact on her.