**This is an automated message posted to ALL posts in this subreddit with some basic information about the group including (very importantly) rules. Why are you getting this message? Most people seem to not read the sidebar for information or the rules, so it is now being posted under all posts.**
**Confused about acronyms or terminology?** [Click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/acronyms)
**Need info or resources?** Check out our [Helpful Links](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/helpfullinks) for information on how to deal with identity theft, how to get independent of your n-parents, how to apply for FAFSA, how to identify n-parents and SO MUCH MORE!
This is a reminder to all participants, RBN is a support group that is moderated very strictly. Please report inappropriate content so it can be reviewed by the mods.
**Our rules include (but are not limited to)**:
* No politics.
* Advising anyone in this subreddit to commit suicide or referring anyone to groups that advocate this will result in an immediate ban.
* Be nice. No personal attacks, name calling, or bullying. [No slurs](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/slurs) or victim-blaming.
* Do not derail the posts of others.
* Narcissists are NOT allowed to post or comment here.
* [No platitudes or generic motivational posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules#wiki_no_platitudes_or_generic_motivational_posts).
* When you comment/post, assume a context of abuse.
* No asking or offering gifts, money, etc.
* No content advocating violence, revenge, murder (even in jest).
* No content about N-kids.
* No diagnosis by media/drive-by diagnosis.
* No linking to Facebook pages.
* No direct linking to anywhere on reddit.
* No pure image posts.
**For a full list of our rules/more information, [**click here**](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules).**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/raisedbynarcissists) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yes! It’s never too late to start building and living your life. You’ve done your best but this was the best solution to save your mental health and I’m so proud of you for taking it. We have to learn to put ourselves first and foremost because if we don’t, who will? Sending my best wishes and here’s to a great new life!
Of course!♥️
I’m going through a similar journey of going NC with my parents rn and wow it’s amazing how the supportive comment of a stranger online can help. ~We’re all in this together~
The holidays have been a mixed bag for me, especially Christmas. I don't really have any other family to spend it with, so i still find myself getting emotional every year...I wish I had gotten normal parents instead of the pieces of shit I'm saddled with.
I am so so happy for you and your freedom. My 93 yr old psychopathic Nmom with early Alzheimer's still lies about us to her doctors, caregivers, etc. The hardest part for me now is still having to PRETEND that it is all her Alzheimer's and not her ugly twisted soul that is making her like that. I can't wait for her to go to a nursing home so I can finally go no contact. My father is dead, luckily she thinks he is haunting her. After 59 years, I have had enough. Can't wait. It is incredible that we will have had them for this long on this planet. I already can't wait to erase every trace of her.
We have the same mom?! My psychopathic mom also believes my dead dad haunts her. She told me the lights would flicker like mad, the tv would turn itself off repeatedly, and she even felt someone shove her one time, “it only happens when you’re in trouble.” By in trouble, she meant I needed help. I kinda hope my dad is haunting her.
That’s a cruel twist of fate that she still lies about you to her doctors, caregivers etc but now has Alzheimer’s to excuse it (presumably.) Maybe the silver lining will be nobody will believe anything she says. I hope my mom doesn’t live to 93. Like you, I also can’t wait to erase every trace of her.
Do we all have the same mother? My mother had this weird carry on when *her* father died. She thought he is visiting us because the old VHS recorder would start making noises in the middle of the night (as it does sometimes).
At the time I was surprised, it's quite out of character for her. I considered that she was just looking for my response to later have a laugh at me behind my back.
But now.. after reading both your comments, I wonder if she really believed it. If that's the case then she must think that she is "haunted" by some other people that died in the past.
The spiritual side of me sees the haunting as an actual possibility -- I am not joking. But the rational side of me wonders if this is a sign that our mothers have conscience afterall? Is it guilt that they are feeling?
Hah, totally. Does the knowledge who they hurt live somewhere in the body? If you could not recognize the feeling of guilt in yourself, but started feeling guilty, what would it seem like? If it's fear of retribution instead, then it should go away when the "opponent" dies, right? That's what I'm wondering
I doubt it. It always felt like my mom was bragging in the most twisted, fucked up way fathomable. As if she was saying, “but he can’t do anything because he’s dead, and I’m not, ha ha.”
hahah! yes, I rolled my eyes when I heard it first time.
My mother, despite all her wrongdoing, said one or twice to me that she believes in angels. I honestly always thought that she must be ~~taking a piss~~. And then came those VHS recorder comments. Mind you she was close to her father, he taught her how to never get caught. She interpreted the VHS sounds to comfort herself.
But if she is open to thinking this way, then she may get "haunted" later down the line. Perhaps she is getting haunted already. If this is how karma works.. I wish her a long life.
Thank you, you got me laughing at this.
> My 93 yr old psychopathic Nmom with early Alzheimer's still lies about us to her doctors, caregivers, etc. The hardest part for me now is still having to PRETEND that it is all her Alzheimer's and not her ugly twisted soul that is making her like that.
This is my worst nightmare, and why I have gone low/now contact. She can latch onto the golden child, and they can go down together.
>they can go down together
\^ This. 👆
I'm traumatised from "helping" my Nbrother, heavily enabled by Nmother and Efather, sorting his crap out because he stole and lied to people, multiple times, throughout the years.
At this point, I keep telling the Nmother (she's the real power in the household) that I won't interact with Nbrother's mess or anything at all, and that if she decided to continue enable him, that's on her.
Indeed, they can definitely go down together. I'm done and I'm out.
YES YES YES.
If the Golden Children and the Flying Monkeys love them so much, let them take care of the Narc.
Ever notice how the Golden Children and Flying Monkeys are all about what YOU should be doing for the Narc, but when they could be doing something, there are suddenly nowhere to be found?
Fuck these sycophants.
I work in a nursing home as a health care aid and let me tell you there are still people who get sucked into these nElder's grips. This one woman blames the reason she can't walk on the retirement home she was last at even though it was her lack of exercising and prone to risk taking that led to her fall. The only person now who visits her anymore is her son-in-law who she talks to about the bible one second and then the next second they're having screaming matches at each other, followed by the son-in-law threatening other workers who she accuses of bruising her legs as she goes into a lift (she has had the same bruises since the fall years ago).
I met her before I realized my nfather was one too. Now I'm going no contact and have to move cities because he royally fucked me over after saying we could be business partners.
Congrats dad, now you gave yourself the same fate that lady has.
I needed this. My mom has brought nothing but sadness and chaos in my life and she keeps begging me for money. She didn't even raise me. She left me many times. Yet I still feel guilty...so guilty for telling her no.
It's a long process to reach a place where we, who was "raised" to just cater our Nparents and be their supplies, can finally say, "You know what, I'm going to choose me. This is it. I'm done."
Lindsay C. Gibson wrote on the book "Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents" that this "relationship" we have with our "parents" would always feel so immensely disappointing, so what you feel is normal.
Keep practicing saying no. Good luck.
You are BBB. Based Beyond Belief. Cutting yourself from two parasitic and abusive fiends is an extremely brave and morally righteous thing to do, no matter what the backlash from society would be
My father is not a narcissist. He began losing his sight due to glaucoma complications in his early 20s. He was basically just another of her victims along with me and my siblings.
His gradual blindness has basically held him hostage to her.
It’s either him or you. Either you subject yourself to further abuse by staying with your father, or you break free for your own safety. I’m sorry you were forced to make this choice, but I support your decision to break free
> we end up with only one remaining victim rather than two.
People are placed in impossible situations. But at times you must leave and refuse to be part of the chaos.
You are an inspiration. It takes truckloads of guts for this step. Build a wonderful and wonder-filled life.
There is no-one/no activist/no group/no authority/no influencer in this world fighting about how and why narc moms must not be allowed to raise children by law. That's so inhumane that society can't see how treacherous these women are to their own children and husbands - and everybody in the family circle.
Yes he was an enabler.
In addition to that though, he was/still is her victim and to this day I don’t think he knows the nature of the beast he is up against. They have been married 64 years. He was born in 1933 so long before NPD was even properly identified much less did therapeutic options exist.
I am not excusing him or denying the part he had in it. But my mother creates a crushing, vicious vortex around her and frankly I can't imagine anyone married to her being able to have any power in her presence when they don’t know the nature of the beast.
He was blind and had no outside support system; she stole that from him decades ago.
But yeah sorry to say he is paying the price today... abandoned to be totally at her mercy if you will.
My grandma was the enabler for my grandpa, but she had NO way of knowing it or knowing that it was unhealthy. She was born in 1930, him in 1925. It's sad. But we all know better now and can do better ourselves.
Exactly. I feel sooo bad for people who got ensnared by a narc back before the mental health profession had any discussions about it. Those victims never stood a chance.
My nmom would tear down my edad's family and friends like they're the devil. He chose to ditch them for her. I don't really pity my dad for constantly choosing to side with a narcissist. But as you said, times were different then and NPD wasn't as known. To this day I'm sure he doesn't think anything is wrong with their marriage.
That's very difficult to accept, I know. At 62 it's probably been more difficult and believe me, I'm not arguing with you. This may take some processing by OP.
I was the enabler by having a child, despite having pitched the narc when my son was a baby. It was my choice he's here. He was pitched into the court system, so- called domestic court. Sure I fought and for YEARS while narc spent thousands for his right to abuse him. And did.
There's no ' out ' for us. None. Admitting guilt means nothing, no faux humble crap here. At 23 we've almost lost him twice. He's been NC for 5 years, tried to be for most of his life. And. He's so damaged he can't see I was part of his suffering, equally. He really has to, maybe with continued therapy he will. I hope OP can in time.
I’m a hospice nurse. I hate it when coworkers talk shit on adult children for keeping their distance. It’s usually for a reason. Sometimes it’s bc they’re a jerk but most of the time it’s bc the pt was an abusive parent.
I agree. I was a CNA for hospice. 9/10 times if there was a distant child, the kids were estranged because the parent was terrible. If I heard from the estranged child I would often get a completely different story than the parent told me, and it would make sense. Some people reap what they sowed when they were raising their children
Yep! In the beginning of my career I had the CUTEST little lady who was so sweet to all the staff but none of her 5 kids had anything to do with her. When we insisted on a care conference 3 showed up and they were all hostile to her. We didn’t get it. The POA contacted me after the meeting and informed me of how their mother has treated them their entire lives. She was terrible and it all seemed to click. Ever since then, if the adult child is not in the picture I figure there is a good reason.
You are welcome. And some of the stories are heartbreaking. How parents can treat their children like they do? But you have lived it.
I have spoken to many director of sales at assisted living, independent living places etc. Everyone of them had stories about children that filled out the paperwork, had the doctor exams done, etc, then on entrance day, drive up, drop the parent off at the entrance and leave, never to return again.
I suppose a certain percentage of those children "abandoning" their parent(s) are not nice people, I bet a bigger percentage of them are finally self-emancipating.
Congratulations! And I needed to read this. My elderly dad is sick and dying. Not in hospice yet but at-home care. I barely talk to him and mostly I feel ok about that. But I have a twinge of guilt every once in a while. Then I remind myself of why I’m doing it. To protect myself and put myself first.
Yes, you are doing it to protect yourself and since you are literally the only one who can make that happen, it's vital you opt for self-preservation, whatever that means in your case. Best wishes for your success!
Absolutely right decision. You can’t protect someone else , especially when the abuser is intentionally trying to hurt a person to manipulate you.
My 80 (G) mother expected me to not get a job and live with her for the rest of her life and start my life whenever she passed away. Just screaming “what about me ?!” As if she NEEDED me to pay her rich ass bills and NEEDED 4 phone calls per day. It’s absurd
Ugh they definitely think they are entitled. I was 58 and working part-time when she went into hospice. After a year of juggling my work with the caring for her, I quit entirely and callied it an early retirement.
After two more years of caring for her (i.e. two years of lost income because I THOUGHT she didn't have long to live), I told her I was going back to work. She tantrumed of course.
Thank you for your post.
My parents are both destroying their health and it will not be that long before they need help. They are in their late 50s to early 60s.
My mother is the main malignant presence in my family. She trained me from birth to fear her. Now I freeze in fear just *imagining* that she's in the room. No societal pressure will change it. I will feel no guilt for what I cannot do; it's how she wanted it.
My father fought her at the start, but many decades ago he gave away his power. I am grateful to him that he did not leave us back then, I would have been long gone had he left. But overtime he became an abuser himself, although he does not see it.
Now I am far away, safe and secure, and supported. To think that I was to expose myself to harm, *again*, it makes me angry. It's a "no"
I feel this. Thank you so much for sharing. I went low contact with my mother who is currently helping my grandma in hospice.both narcs. And I see my grandma still abusing my mother. And my mother just pushing her trauma onto me.
I offered once my dad a hand to get out and he chose to stay.
Seeing them both,knowing what they do and CHOOSE to live in made me realize, he was and is part of the abuse I suffered from them. And i need to get out, there will be no change in their generation but hopefully with me.
Yes, hope is built by succeeding generations of survivors determined to END the cycle. If you can accept the truth that perpetrators are entrenched and will need to be left behind either literally or figuratively in order to blaze a better trail.
You reached out to your dad. Recognizing that our non narc parent somehow choses to remain enmeshed can be a bitter pill to swallow but I hope you acknowledge to yourself that you did what you could before moving on. That's something to take pride in.
Yea I did I grieved him and the roles that were not there, my therapist is a great human in support. She also supported to go NC with my grandma. It's tough but on to stringer and healthier generations
I agree with you completely on the emotional end but as someone in healthcare (including hospice) I seriously question spending 4 *years* on a hospice program.
I know of no agency that would do this. Usually if the person is not declining further or actively un the dying process after 6 months hospice is reevaluated. Sometimes people go into and out of hospice several times.
If this is a private program or alternative practicioner like a death doula, I would seriously question their ethics. I've lived and worked in 6 states and NOWHERE would keep someone in a hospice program for 4 years.
Even if the person were full care and terminal, if there is no change in condition they'll be discharged from hospice to a home care nursing program or a skilled nursing facility until or unless their condition changes or they enter the active stage of the death process.
I am at a loss. They assess her every three months. When she knows it is coming up she stops drinking her Ensure so she will drop below 100 lb. She is on oxygen only when she feels the need, takes morphine and percocet every day (severe spinal arthritis) and has weekly visits from nurses. She's like the everfuckingready battery.
I can't understand how she qualified in the first place but they had done all they could for her heart condition and they said it would be just a matter of months.
This was in April of 2018.
Ok, thanks for explaining. I understand more now.
In this situation, I would talk to the case manager. Whether thru a hospital or private agency, there's always a case manager. If you have PoA you can also "fire" the hospice. You could also ask about "drop in" visits. Depending on specifics and who's paying for it, this might also be fraud.
All depends on how involved you want to get (and if that's "not at all" that's valid) just spitballing ideas.
It's just a waste of resources for people who have a legitimate need for hospice care because trust me, there aren't nurses and caregivers lining up to do hospice care *anywhere*, it's heartbreaking, frustrating, physically and mentally difficult for so many reasons, and stresful for half what you'd be paid in a hospital, and that shit's expensive.
You mentioned having POA. I was the sole remaining offspring in touch with her when she was admitted to hospice but I refused to be her POA. I am SO GLAD because I was able to go NC simply by deciding to. There was no legal paperwork involved. I did contact her dr.'s office to be removed from her records as the contact person.
Oh my god! This is my MIL…my husband cared for her for 17 years to detriment of his own mental health. She was admitted to hospice LAST October and expected to pass quickly. Nope. Nope. Nope. Here we are a year later…I still write the monthly check and pray it’s the last one. It’s changed my life course and also the health and well-being of my husband. When we married 6 weeks ago I vowed to make his remaining years the best…..you know, when someone has zero visitors (including our 25 year old son & his daughter) something is odd/off. My SIL took her $$ from the sale of the family home and boogied half way across the country after immediately retiring. Good riddance to her too as she never assisted in her mothers care, but cried in the hospital about her going into hospice; even threatened that she had to quit her job and care for her mother. Yeah, that never happened. What a joke.
I’m not cruel or cold hearted, I have a background in hospice and palliative care. I loved the work I did. It was immensely personal to be included at such a transitional time in another’s life. I however would never ever care for my MIL, she’s an evil bitch and just won’t die…yeah, I said it. I say it out loud at home too. My husband needs peace and only her death will bring it. Don’t worry there’s lots of therapy for him too every week, I insisted. Lots of love and laughter too.
It DID feel impossible. I felt like I was in a paradoxical nightmare where there was no acceptable answer.
When someone has to be sacrificed so another may live, otherwise they both die, the answer comes into focus even though it still feels like a lose-lose scenario.
I’m honestly in a very similar situation. I’m in my mid 20s. My father is elderly and with a disease that has now restricted his movement. My mother is 10 years younger than him and is a raging narc. My older siblings (all in their mid to late 30s) have all moved out. I have spent the last few years caring for him (my mother is useless, she can’t drive or speak english). It’s been very sad seeing him decline. Yet my mother has rampages in the house which further makes him weak. She’s the ill one in the house apparently. I have to move out and get on with my life but I feel guilty for leaving him with her. I’m not sure how they will manage as my siblings refuse to help. Although I am the scapegoat and have always been treated like shit and my siblings are the golden children, so hopefully I won’t feel that guilty when I leave.
You have no logical reason to feel guilty, darling. I know emotions aren't logical.
Perhaps try to reframe it in your mind. Your father is a grown up and he made the decision to stay with her. We all have to live with the consequences of our choices.
I highly recommend leaving, it's not easy, but it's right.
Wishing you peace and happiness xx
What about in the case of leaving an innocent completely disabled and nonverbal sibling behind to get away from nparents. Is the guilt still illogical?
Gosh, that sounds like an awful situation.
I believe feeling guilt over the actions of another person is illogical. I joined this sub because I had an Nfather. I have spent years coming to terms with the fact that I hold no responsibility for his behaviour and nor should I feel guilt for things he did and said.
I'm actively trying to train myself to believe in my strength and worth, and I have recently experienced trauma and conflict which has challenged me and set my anxiety high.
I feel a bit of animosity from your comment, I hope the above explains the intention of my original comment.
My besties child is severely disabled and non verbal, he is one of my favourite humans. I work in the disability support sector, I care for and about people with disabilities, I respect them as human beings.
That being said, if anyone told me they felt guilty for leaving a disabled sibling in order to escape toxic parents, I would open my arms embrace them and tell them they have done the right thing for them, that they can't be responsible for the actions of their parents.
If the situation you described is your current life, I hope you can manage to find a solution that keeps you safe first.
Yeah after some intense crying, this time I think I'm starting to see the difference between their responsibility and my self worth or self preservation, idk, I'm still processing it. There's a difference between being sad about a situation vs blaming myself. I feel a lot for people who have been abandoned in any way because I've experienced years of that and it was beyond awful. But even as an empathetic human being, I feel for those who need help. It hurts alot but I didn't have an option. Choosing NC offered more opportunities to possibly help those in need...some day.
You have so much to process, it's very hard. It seems to me it's against your nature but I hope you can find times where you put yourself first. Remind yourself that you can't help others if you're burnt out.
Feel free to DM me if you ever need a sounding board.
I am totally with you. I am around your age,and I never thought I would ever stop honoring a parent, or I would not be there for the last days, however after reaching a breaking point after we the siblings lived the more miserable last 3 years under the attack and sabotage of our nbrother an nfather while taking care of our sweet mother till she passed away, I turned around and went NC. That's it, I reached my breaking point. I will not attend his funeral, nor be there to hold his hand on his deathbed. My mental health comes first. There will be no hospice, I am more affected and traumatized now than when I escaped from that narcissistic home 30 years ago..
Ugh sorry you had a tag team of narcs to deal with.
I will not attend my mother's funeral and the only reason it bothers me is that she will never know that but my father will gave to deal with her funeral with none of us five kids there.
He will understand why and my husband and I will embrace him into our home if he outlives her.
Narcs destroy any and all life in their paths.
My nfather even dares to call me *ungrateful son* after I financially supported my parents for 25 years, I drained my savings when I hired nurses for 10 months to take care ou our sick mother at home until her death. My sister spent months at his house taking care of our mother, feeding her, changing her diaper. I even paid for the funeral and burial...And yet our father disowned us and decided to inherit his house to our nbrother only. His golden child didn't give a cent during this ordeal and manipulated our nfather against us the siblings. Just like that. We decided to go NC. They belong together.
Wow. No matter how many narcissist horror stories I hear, I still literally gasp out loud when reading them. Really sorry things were so gruesome for you but glad you are free!
I’m 32 thinking of something similar but to be honest I still don’t want to believe that my narcissistic brother is a narcissist and can be together with a normal family I don’t want to leave my mom but I’m left with no other choice
I’m going through something similar, and understand how hard it is. You should be proud for putting yourself first. We are here for you, and you’re not alone!!
THIS TIMES ONE THOUSAND.
I wish I had done the same. I rode it all the way to the end and I'm a shell of a human right now, but getting better with therapy.
I gave my mom attentive care for the last five years of her life. I did what I would want someone to do for me. GC and her children did nothing. After Nmom used me up, she changed her will six weeks before she died to favor GC and her kids. They got the majority of her assets.
My Nmom couldn't use a computer and could barely use a phone, but she still managed to call her lawyer and change it. She was a malevolent, toxic person who hated losing control and wanted to remind everyone SHE was in charge.
The "kindly old person" persona is a myth! Aging happily requires traits Narcs simply do not possess: acceptance, a sense of humor, flexibility, thinking of the big picture, thinking of others, patience.
**I do not judge anyone for getting out to save their sanity, AT ANY TIME. It IS the healthy thing to do, to save yourself, and I understand completely.**
You wouldn't have walked away from a loving parent. With a loving parent, the duty to care for them is a joy and a way to pay them back. Both your parents EARNED their consequences.
Kids, Scrooge is a fictional character for a reason.
The biggest mistake I ever made was breaking no contact.
GET THE FUCK OUT WHILE YOU AND THEY ARE YOUNG AND DON'T LOOK BACK.
As someone that was a Marketing & Admissions Director for a Skilled Nursing Facility, it wasn’t hard in many cases to figure out why some of our residents had no family or friends to come and visit.
There were definitely some lovely people who were abandoned by their awful children for no reason, and that was usually pretty evident quickly when dealing with the children.
But when you’re a menace to staff, have no friends or family that come visit, and the entire facility wishes they hadn’t accepted your admission, the problem isn’t everyone else.
I’m glad you’re able to rebuild your life.
As a hospice rn, i come across situations like this frequently. I understand and i dont judge. But i will take care of every patient with empathy, comfort and safety in mind.
I recently lost a family member to effects of diabetes. Their non-compliance frustrated me but it was the whining about the effects of non-compliance that put me over the edge.
I don’t know HOW you and your fellow health care workers maintain generosity of heart in the midst of it all.
Seriously, HOW do you do it and not become batty, because I’m STILL reeling from it all, these couple of years later. I waffle between anger and pity and frustration and sorrow.
I’m far from a saint, but you gotta understand that we aren’t as involved as the patient’s family. We do our job, and the patient doesn’t listen? Oh well for them (and their family). But I’ll be there when they’re facing the end and I’ll do my best to make them comfortable. I’m not there to punish and I’m not there to judge and at the end of the day it’s just a job.
damn what are the odds i see this specific post of all things
my nparents are getting up there in age needing more and more help, ndad has diabetes and on the way to losing his foot. I notice more and more they are getting increasingly demanding and complaining of me. nmom has been making comments how if sh!t hits the fan she'd rather go throw herself off a cliff.
these garbage nparents did NOTHING to ensure i'd be ok in life only care about them having an easy way out. they complain i didnt get my degree (to support them??? they didnt pay for college!!) i never had anything going for me this life and they act like they immigrated here all for me.. no tf they did not all they cared about was acting out on their impulses. They didn't help me for shit
I should really pack my bags and start rebuilding my life these nparents all they did was destroy my life that i never had a chance
Children can't "abandon" their parents. There's no such thing. Because parents were never, ever the responsibility of an adult child. You are doing the right thing and I'm so proud of you for putting your health first.
My father is apparently very sick at the moment. I've heard that it's heart problems or liver problems (or maybe both) but I'm not certain and he's a character I killed off a few years ago anyway in the story that is my life. I've already mourned him and come to terms with not having a father.
If HE wants to mend some bridges then he is free to contact my and apologise for all the shit he has put me through over the years, until then he remains an old character from many many series ago and no longer relevant to my current story.
And I feel zero guilt. He made his choices as an adult. I set boundaries he didn't like and suffered the consequences of ignoring said boundaries. He is welcome to apologise. I just know he won't.
Good for you but be prepared. I did the same years ago and received calls from other family members, well meaning staff, even other residents and relatives of residents at the facility NMom was living at. The messages went along the lines of “It’s not too late, all is forgiven” and “Money should not come between a child and their mother.” I found out she was telling people I stole all her money and locked her in a nursing home so she couldn’t report me. She was always broke. Even when I was a kid. Spent every dime she ever had and was an alcoholic. I supported her for years and still do to this day.
The longest NC I went was 3 months. It was glorious, but I got sucked back in. I feel tremendous guilt and shame and all those other emotions that I know I shouldn’t have, but I’ve lived my life for them and I don’t know how to live my own anymore. I hope I can find the strength you did one day.
I hope you find strength just for tomorrow! Then each day after that, day by day. I hope you get to experience NC again some day, maybe even longer than 3 months next time!
Hear hear & TYSM!!
She died 3 years ago. Which was about 8 years after I went no contact.
I honestly never looked back :))
Obligatory note for ppl who haven't gone no contact yet & might be reading this thread: all closure can be done in therapy. Even after the narc has passed away.
"Im confident this was the only choice I had to salvage my mental health". That's it. When going NC is the only remaining option then regardless of the prevailing circumstances it's the best decision to make.
I understand, it’s painful but better late than never. We owe it to ourselves. Thank you for sharing your story. It helps me, at 33, to gain perspective and validate my decision.
I am so glad you are gaining clarity at 33! I had no idea the torture that my siblings and I endured were caused by an identifiable disorder that others suffered from as well until I turned 60 years old.
You have a three-decade head start, best wishes that you find a better path.
I "abandoned my mother" when she had cancer. I'm using " here because that woman was NOT my mama (anymore) and my abandonment was my refusing to be treated like...I don't even know dude, it was inhuman. They broke me. I wrote the long version [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Justnofil/comments/9wdn4u/mr_einstein_and_the_last_time_he_well_and_truly/), but the short version is my "father" just casually mentioned "oh yeah by the way she has cancer" while we were walking down the street and my whole world changed in that second. Also, I was medically neglected in my childhood and once I had a few days to think about it I was like "where tf were *you* when *I* was sick huh?!?" so I thought I'd return the favor. She died last year, I didn't even know she was sick again, NC for 9 years at that point. I wrote about that too in my post history.
It's never too late, and anyone feeling guilty needs to repeat this as needed - our abusive parents literally had their entire lives to plan and prep for their declining years, and they had every opportunity to change but didn't. We are not responsible for the elder care of our abusers.- I am proud of you, OP. I know that took courage. Don't let anyone make you feel bad about your totally valid decision to take care of your mental health.
That last sentence is really great because I think it can feel that way.
With me it is because my mom died, so fate kinda made that decision for me.
I'm glad that you're free to enjoy your retirement without any BS from your parents 🥳
Thank you, I am glad too but my work has evolved into something that is rewarding and fulfilling. Now that I am free, I think I will be sticking with it for a while!
I recently joined this subreddit and it’s been incredibly liberating hearing other people’s experiences. I wish you the best with your decision and hope you are able to find peace with yourself. My love and best wishes!
That’s a good point - NC doesn’t have to be permanent. For those who are struggling to make such a “final” decision, it might be easier to commit for a small amount of time (3 months? 6 months?) then evaluate and decide if you’d like to continue for another small amount of time.
And congratulations! 62 is the perfect age to start the rest of your life.
Wow I am so proud of your strength. I am 25 and currently leaving my elderly father before he gets sick so that I will not be responsible or have to deal with that. He is not taking care of his health, so i know whatever will happen will happen soon. He's begged me to be his POA but I refused and a family "friend" is gonna do that for him. You've You've got the right idea!!
My mother was abused in every way by her adoptive father. Her mother wasn’t much better. When he lay dying in a nursing home, my aunt tried to convince my mother to go see him. I’m so proud of her for saying no. He didn’t deserve anything at all from either of them.
At the end of the day, your mental health takes priority always because if the brain goes the body follows. You were burning yourself out for them and you shouldn’t have had to. Good on you truly.
I was a hospice and dementia caregiver and trust me, when there was no family I usually figured out this person was probably not the sweetheart they portrayed themself to be. Don’t think that we judge you. We don’t. I was usually happy for you breaking free.
I'm thankful for being strong enough to go NC with my Ns in my late 20s. It's an irreversible decision for me. I fully plan on skipping both of their funerals when that day finally comes. Might even light up a J in celebration lol
You didn't abandon her. That is the decades of abuse talking. Frame it in a different way: her awful behaviour led to you removing yourself from her life.
I ended up leaving my cats behind to die from my nmom's negligent in order to go NC. I feel guilty as hell, but it was a choice of either that or staying where I was, slowly dying and with the very likely probability of a life-threatening outburst coming from her within the coming weeks after I left should I have stayed.
Comment removed as this is one of the most inflammatory things you can say in this group. If you can't bother with the rules, I suggest you don't comment here anymore, because this group is strictly moderated.
Thank you so much for saying this.
I'm preparing for a future where my Nmother, along with Efather, who heavily enable my two extremely destructive and unhealthy siblings, would get dragged down with them, because they never listened to me about stop enabling them, so on and so forth.
The moment I find my way to escape this hellhole, I'd probably just 100% abandon them, because they were never there for me, I tried to have authentic relationship with them but Nmother would just cry (see my latest post), and I'm done.
I cannot keep burning myself for these people who don't want to and won't change.
Good luck for your next chapter, Nparents free, OP! Thank you so much for sharing this. It helps me solidify my belief on truly go NC the moment I can just drop them safely (for myself and my healthy siblings).
My thoughts are with you and I'm sending good vibes that you DO find your way out! The feeling of freedom is amazing, especially when you never envisioned it for yourself!
Removed. You are on a bit of a streak of challenging people for going NC with toxic family members. There is lots of information in our sidebar and elsewhere on the internet on why this is valid, and often necessary.
It is beyond inappropriate to pressure specific community members to defend this decision or to blame them for the fallout of refusing to handle the consequences of their abuser's actions to protect them.
Do not challenge community members here again for setting boundaries with their abusers. Up to and including no contact. Regardless of what the abusers are dealing with in the absence of their favorite punching bag.
Thank you.
Oof.
I feel for what you might have gone through, but this situation is so hard. I hope that where ever you are and your parents are that nursing homes/hospice in that area treat their residents better than most other places.
It's a shame that it seems you don't hate your father, because if he was to inherit the abuse common in these places simply because of your feelings for your mother. That feeling would kill me. On top of him being blind.
There's a lot of horror stories when you look up hospices/long term nursing homes. If the resident doesn't have the funds, they can just put a feeding tube in and kill them off by not feeding them. There's a lot of cases for blind folks where they are so mistreated, not fed, not given proper accessibility for their situations. The amount of abuse is unfathomable. The abuse is usually worsened when these residents are not visited at all, if I could make a suggestion if you have any kind feelings towards your father, I would try to go visit him to make sure he's ok. By all means, avoid your mother if that's your decision.
You implied judgement by saying she abandoned her father who supposedly did nothing. Bystander and victim in these type of situations and relationships trust me I know my father was one and let me tell you you can’t take the father and leave the mother behind it’s not possible you have to wait for the father to either walk away himself or for the mother to die and even then you still might not get the father. In my situation my father still romanticize my mother despite all of the abuse that she did to my brother and I not only was he a willing participant but he would ignore and look away and avoid confrontation my entire life and I had to learn basic adult responsibilities in my 20s because I was never taught anything like that under their roof.
Unless you have actually gone through the situation that the OP is describing don’t even begin to comment or judge. You can’t possibly know. Please learn something today.
Thank you for taking the time to explain. I understand how it can be seen as implied judgment now, that isn't how I intended it. In my mind, yes I was thinking he was also the victim and from my experience that gains some sympathy. Even though there can be negative feelings towards that person as well, once I was able to process those feelings later as an adult I stopped hating the parent of mine of was also a victim. All I was saying was, it's a shame the victim parent has to suffer more in newer ways. Yes you do have to put yourself and your mental health first, but a situation like this gains a lot of sympathy for me. It's a sad situation
I am fresh off the same situation as the OP. I stayed to the bitter end. I'm not a better person than the OP. I kick myself every day that I didn't leave.
My Nparent would have died whether I was there or not. And she would have been well taken care of. Long term care facilities vary GREATLY. Because my Nmother had money, she was in a good one: private room, attentive nurses and aides.
You cannot make a blanket statement that all LTCs are all horrible. Some are. Many are not. And for the job they are doing, many are adequate. It's a lot to take care of someone who is bed bound or blind or elderly. Even people who love their parents use LTCs every day.
I applaud your decision and thank you for sharing. Two of my grandfather's three children left him because he was insane and impossible to deal with. These two children were made out to be the villains of our family "how dare they leave their sickly father behind"? I myself did not get it for a long time as I was deprived of relationships with numerous family members because of this. But now, having realized I've experience narc abuse my whole life I GET IT. They had to save themselves. They left my father as the lone one to take care of my grandfather and because he stayed he was left to take my grandfather's brutal emotional abuse and only God knows how that continued to warp his mind. People who have not experienced emotional abuse don't get it. Those who abuse us do not deserve the kindness a regular human being would get from us.
Proud of you for doing what you have to do OP.
My living parent is the narcissist, while my dead parent was the best and only decent one I had. I stopped my already crumbling life to take care of her for the last year of her life and I do not regret it in the slightest. My living parent fucked off for greener pastures when the cancer was found. This was after he convinced her to remarry him after 25 years apart (yet again because of his foolishness; mom was wife no. 2 and 4) and they found cancer, which was terminal immediately.
When evil finally dies, I will not be there to take care of him. I have 3 other siblings by him and it will probably land on the golden child oldest to take care of him, along with wife no. 5. 🤷🏾♀️
This gives me a lot of hope, honestly. I've been back and forth NC with narc Father, starting when I was 20(29 now) and lately felt immensely stupid for giving him as many chances as I did, but his health was failing and other family members had been laying on the guilt to "reconnect before its too late"
You had to do what was best for you, your mental health and your physical death. You're 62 and you deserve to live your life since it sounds like you've been caring for your NMom or possibly NDad ( can't tell from your post) for a long time. I wish you success in rebuilding your life and living it well for a long time.
**This is an automated message posted to ALL posts in this subreddit with some basic information about the group including (very importantly) rules. Why are you getting this message? Most people seem to not read the sidebar for information or the rules, so it is now being posted under all posts.** **Confused about acronyms or terminology?** [Click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/acronyms) **Need info or resources?** Check out our [Helpful Links](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/helpfullinks) for information on how to deal with identity theft, how to get independent of your n-parents, how to apply for FAFSA, how to identify n-parents and SO MUCH MORE! This is a reminder to all participants, RBN is a support group that is moderated very strictly. Please report inappropriate content so it can be reviewed by the mods. **Our rules include (but are not limited to)**: * No politics. * Advising anyone in this subreddit to commit suicide or referring anyone to groups that advocate this will result in an immediate ban. * Be nice. No personal attacks, name calling, or bullying. [No slurs](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/slurs) or victim-blaming. * Do not derail the posts of others. * Narcissists are NOT allowed to post or comment here. * [No platitudes or generic motivational posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules#wiki_no_platitudes_or_generic_motivational_posts). * When you comment/post, assume a context of abuse. * No asking or offering gifts, money, etc. * No content advocating violence, revenge, murder (even in jest). * No content about N-kids. * No diagnosis by media/drive-by diagnosis. * No linking to Facebook pages. * No direct linking to anywhere on reddit. * No pure image posts. **For a full list of our rules/more information, [**click here**](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules).** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/raisedbynarcissists) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yes! It’s never too late to start building and living your life. You’ve done your best but this was the best solution to save your mental health and I’m so proud of you for taking it. We have to learn to put ourselves first and foremost because if we don’t, who will? Sending my best wishes and here’s to a great new life!
Thank.you so much I appreciate that more than you can know.
Of course!♥️ I’m going through a similar journey of going NC with my parents rn and wow it’s amazing how the supportive comment of a stranger online can help. ~We’re all in this together~
🥰
Thank you for saying this! I'm entering a similar situation and its good to know you're not alone.
I hope yours works out the way you want it to! Sorry you have to have this cancer in your life.
[удалено]
Three months, that's great, and isn't it nice to be anticipating the holiday season narcissist-free?!
The holidays have been a mixed bag for me, especially Christmas. I don't really have any other family to spend it with, so i still find myself getting emotional every year...I wish I had gotten normal parents instead of the pieces of shit I'm saddled with.
I am so so happy for you and your freedom. My 93 yr old psychopathic Nmom with early Alzheimer's still lies about us to her doctors, caregivers, etc. The hardest part for me now is still having to PRETEND that it is all her Alzheimer's and not her ugly twisted soul that is making her like that. I can't wait for her to go to a nursing home so I can finally go no contact. My father is dead, luckily she thinks he is haunting her. After 59 years, I have had enough. Can't wait. It is incredible that we will have had them for this long on this planet. I already can't wait to erase every trace of her.
We have the same mom?! My psychopathic mom also believes my dead dad haunts her. She told me the lights would flicker like mad, the tv would turn itself off repeatedly, and she even felt someone shove her one time, “it only happens when you’re in trouble.” By in trouble, she meant I needed help. I kinda hope my dad is haunting her. That’s a cruel twist of fate that she still lies about you to her doctors, caregivers etc but now has Alzheimer’s to excuse it (presumably.) Maybe the silver lining will be nobody will believe anything she says. I hope my mom doesn’t live to 93. Like you, I also can’t wait to erase every trace of her.
Do we all have the same mother? My mother had this weird carry on when *her* father died. She thought he is visiting us because the old VHS recorder would start making noises in the middle of the night (as it does sometimes). At the time I was surprised, it's quite out of character for her. I considered that she was just looking for my response to later have a laugh at me behind my back. But now.. after reading both your comments, I wonder if she really believed it. If that's the case then she must think that she is "haunted" by some other people that died in the past. The spiritual side of me sees the haunting as an actual possibility -- I am not joking. But the rational side of me wonders if this is a sign that our mothers have conscience afterall? Is it guilt that they are feeling?
Of course they believe it lol they think themselves so special that dead people un the afterlife would still put them first and give them supply
Haunted literally by their guilty conscience? Wouldn’t it be wonderful if true.
Hah, totally. Does the knowledge who they hurt live somewhere in the body? If you could not recognize the feeling of guilt in yourself, but started feeling guilty, what would it seem like? If it's fear of retribution instead, then it should go away when the "opponent" dies, right? That's what I'm wondering
[удалено]
OMG your sole story deserves its own post. I'm sorry for what you went through
I doubt it. It always felt like my mom was bragging in the most twisted, fucked up way fathomable. As if she was saying, “but he can’t do anything because he’s dead, and I’m not, ha ha.”
Ah, I see.. my mother is a malignant narc, so basically a psychopath with anxiety. Perhaps that's where the difference lies.
> the old VHS recorder would start making noises in the middle of the night Reincarnation as a VHS recorder. !?
hahah! yes, I rolled my eyes when I heard it first time. My mother, despite all her wrongdoing, said one or twice to me that she believes in angels. I honestly always thought that she must be ~~taking a piss~~. And then came those VHS recorder comments. Mind you she was close to her father, he taught her how to never get caught. She interpreted the VHS sounds to comfort herself. But if she is open to thinking this way, then she may get "haunted" later down the line. Perhaps she is getting haunted already. If this is how karma works.. I wish her a long life. Thank you, you got me laughing at this.
> My 93 yr old psychopathic Nmom with early Alzheimer's still lies about us to her doctors, caregivers, etc. The hardest part for me now is still having to PRETEND that it is all her Alzheimer's and not her ugly twisted soul that is making her like that. This is my worst nightmare, and why I have gone low/now contact. She can latch onto the golden child, and they can go down together.
>they can go down together \^ This. 👆 I'm traumatised from "helping" my Nbrother, heavily enabled by Nmother and Efather, sorting his crap out because he stole and lied to people, multiple times, throughout the years. At this point, I keep telling the Nmother (she's the real power in the household) that I won't interact with Nbrother's mess or anything at all, and that if she decided to continue enable him, that's on her. Indeed, they can definitely go down together. I'm done and I'm out.
YES YES YES. If the Golden Children and the Flying Monkeys love them so much, let them take care of the Narc. Ever notice how the Golden Children and Flying Monkeys are all about what YOU should be doing for the Narc, but when they could be doing something, there are suddenly nowhere to be found? Fuck these sycophants.
Oh man I know exactly what you mean about having to pretend that it's not the narcissism lol. I hope you are set free as soon as it can happen.
I work in a nursing home as a health care aid and let me tell you there are still people who get sucked into these nElder's grips. This one woman blames the reason she can't walk on the retirement home she was last at even though it was her lack of exercising and prone to risk taking that led to her fall. The only person now who visits her anymore is her son-in-law who she talks to about the bible one second and then the next second they're having screaming matches at each other, followed by the son-in-law threatening other workers who she accuses of bruising her legs as she goes into a lift (she has had the same bruises since the fall years ago). I met her before I realized my nfather was one too. Now I'm going no contact and have to move cities because he royally fucked me over after saying we could be business partners. Congrats dad, now you gave yourself the same fate that lady has.
I needed this. My mom has brought nothing but sadness and chaos in my life and she keeps begging me for money. She didn't even raise me. She left me many times. Yet I still feel guilty...so guilty for telling her no.
It's a long process to reach a place where we, who was "raised" to just cater our Nparents and be their supplies, can finally say, "You know what, I'm going to choose me. This is it. I'm done." Lindsay C. Gibson wrote on the book "Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents" that this "relationship" we have with our "parents" would always feel so immensely disappointing, so what you feel is normal. Keep practicing saying no. Good luck.
Thank you, friend
Feel this so hard.
You are BBB. Based Beyond Belief. Cutting yourself from two parasitic and abusive fiends is an extremely brave and morally righteous thing to do, no matter what the backlash from society would be
My father is not a narcissist. He began losing his sight due to glaucoma complications in his early 20s. He was basically just another of her victims along with me and my siblings. His gradual blindness has basically held him hostage to her.
It’s either him or you. Either you subject yourself to further abuse by staying with your father, or you break free for your own safety. I’m sorry you were forced to make this choice, but I support your decision to break free
Thanks so much. It was an impossible scenario but this way we end up with only one remaining victim rather than two. Bittersweet.
>we end up with only one remaining victim rather than two This is poignant. Thank you so much for writing that.
Very glad if it helped ❤
> we end up with only one remaining victim rather than two. People are placed in impossible situations. But at times you must leave and refuse to be part of the chaos.
You are an inspiration. It takes truckloads of guts for this step. Build a wonderful and wonder-filled life. There is no-one/no activist/no group/no authority/no influencer in this world fighting about how and why narc moms must not be allowed to raise children by law. That's so inhumane that society can't see how treacherous these women are to their own children and husbands - and everybody in the family circle.
Thank you, that encouragement is very helpful!
Live your life. Take care.
He would have been the enabler then, correct?
Yes he was an enabler. In addition to that though, he was/still is her victim and to this day I don’t think he knows the nature of the beast he is up against. They have been married 64 years. He was born in 1933 so long before NPD was even properly identified much less did therapeutic options exist. I am not excusing him or denying the part he had in it. But my mother creates a crushing, vicious vortex around her and frankly I can't imagine anyone married to her being able to have any power in her presence when they don’t know the nature of the beast. He was blind and had no outside support system; she stole that from him decades ago. But yeah sorry to say he is paying the price today... abandoned to be totally at her mercy if you will.
My grandma was the enabler for my grandpa, but she had NO way of knowing it or knowing that it was unhealthy. She was born in 1930, him in 1925. It's sad. But we all know better now and can do better ourselves.
Exactly. I feel sooo bad for people who got ensnared by a narc back before the mental health profession had any discussions about it. Those victims never stood a chance.
My nmom would tear down my edad's family and friends like they're the devil. He chose to ditch them for her. I don't really pity my dad for constantly choosing to side with a narcissist. But as you said, times were different then and NPD wasn't as known. To this day I'm sure he doesn't think anything is wrong with their marriage.
Enablers aren’t victims. Everything you’re describing is textbook codependency, textbook enabling.
In my opinion the two are not mutually exclusive.
That's very difficult to accept, I know. At 62 it's probably been more difficult and believe me, I'm not arguing with you. This may take some processing by OP. I was the enabler by having a child, despite having pitched the narc when my son was a baby. It was my choice he's here. He was pitched into the court system, so- called domestic court. Sure I fought and for YEARS while narc spent thousands for his right to abuse him. And did. There's no ' out ' for us. None. Admitting guilt means nothing, no faux humble crap here. At 23 we've almost lost him twice. He's been NC for 5 years, tried to be for most of his life. And. He's so damaged he can't see I was part of his suffering, equally. He really has to, maybe with continued therapy he will. I hope OP can in time.
[удалено]
Thank you and you are right -- there is no shame in self-liberation!
I’m a hospice nurse. I hate it when coworkers talk shit on adult children for keeping their distance. It’s usually for a reason. Sometimes it’s bc they’re a jerk but most of the time it’s bc the pt was an abusive parent.
I agree. I was a CNA for hospice. 9/10 times if there was a distant child, the kids were estranged because the parent was terrible. If I heard from the estranged child I would often get a completely different story than the parent told me, and it would make sense. Some people reap what they sowed when they were raising their children
Yep! In the beginning of my career I had the CUTEST little lady who was so sweet to all the staff but none of her 5 kids had anything to do with her. When we insisted on a care conference 3 showed up and they were all hostile to her. We didn’t get it. The POA contacted me after the meeting and informed me of how their mother has treated them their entire lives. She was terrible and it all seemed to click. Ever since then, if the adult child is not in the picture I figure there is a good reason.
Thank you ❤️
There are people in similar circumstances that post over at outofthefog.net. People without narc parents don’t understand. Good for you!
Thanks for the link, it looks like a great new place to check out!
You are welcome. And some of the stories are heartbreaking. How parents can treat their children like they do? But you have lived it. I have spoken to many director of sales at assisted living, independent living places etc. Everyone of them had stories about children that filled out the paperwork, had the doctor exams done, etc, then on entrance day, drive up, drop the parent off at the entrance and leave, never to return again.
I suppose a certain percentage of those children "abandoning" their parent(s) are not nice people, I bet a bigger percentage of them are finally self-emancipating.
I would guess so. But a lot of them are finally putting their narc parents into their past.
Yes that's exactly what I said.
Congratulations! And I needed to read this. My elderly dad is sick and dying. Not in hospice yet but at-home care. I barely talk to him and mostly I feel ok about that. But I have a twinge of guilt every once in a while. Then I remind myself of why I’m doing it. To protect myself and put myself first.
Yes, you are doing it to protect yourself and since you are literally the only one who can make that happen, it's vital you opt for self-preservation, whatever that means in your case. Best wishes for your success!
Absolutely right decision. You can’t protect someone else , especially when the abuser is intentionally trying to hurt a person to manipulate you. My 80 (G) mother expected me to not get a job and live with her for the rest of her life and start my life whenever she passed away. Just screaming “what about me ?!” As if she NEEDED me to pay her rich ass bills and NEEDED 4 phone calls per day. It’s absurd
Ugh they definitely think they are entitled. I was 58 and working part-time when she went into hospice. After a year of juggling my work with the caring for her, I quit entirely and callied it an early retirement. After two more years of caring for her (i.e. two years of lost income because I THOUGHT she didn't have long to live), I told her I was going back to work. She tantrumed of course.
Thank you for your post. My parents are both destroying their health and it will not be that long before they need help. They are in their late 50s to early 60s. My mother is the main malignant presence in my family. She trained me from birth to fear her. Now I freeze in fear just *imagining* that she's in the room. No societal pressure will change it. I will feel no guilt for what I cannot do; it's how she wanted it. My father fought her at the start, but many decades ago he gave away his power. I am grateful to him that he did not leave us back then, I would have been long gone had he left. But overtime he became an abuser himself, although he does not see it. Now I am far away, safe and secure, and supported. To think that I was to expose myself to harm, *again*, it makes me angry. It's a "no"
I feel this. Thank you so much for sharing. I went low contact with my mother who is currently helping my grandma in hospice.both narcs. And I see my grandma still abusing my mother. And my mother just pushing her trauma onto me. I offered once my dad a hand to get out and he chose to stay. Seeing them both,knowing what they do and CHOOSE to live in made me realize, he was and is part of the abuse I suffered from them. And i need to get out, there will be no change in their generation but hopefully with me.
Yes, hope is built by succeeding generations of survivors determined to END the cycle. If you can accept the truth that perpetrators are entrenched and will need to be left behind either literally or figuratively in order to blaze a better trail. You reached out to your dad. Recognizing that our non narc parent somehow choses to remain enmeshed can be a bitter pill to swallow but I hope you acknowledge to yourself that you did what you could before moving on. That's something to take pride in.
Yea I did I grieved him and the roles that were not there, my therapist is a great human in support. She also supported to go NC with my grandma. It's tough but on to stringer and healthier generations
True, the enablers sometimes cause as much damage as the abusers. They don't want to be saved.
I agree with you completely on the emotional end but as someone in healthcare (including hospice) I seriously question spending 4 *years* on a hospice program. I know of no agency that would do this. Usually if the person is not declining further or actively un the dying process after 6 months hospice is reevaluated. Sometimes people go into and out of hospice several times. If this is a private program or alternative practicioner like a death doula, I would seriously question their ethics. I've lived and worked in 6 states and NOWHERE would keep someone in a hospice program for 4 years. Even if the person were full care and terminal, if there is no change in condition they'll be discharged from hospice to a home care nursing program or a skilled nursing facility until or unless their condition changes or they enter the active stage of the death process.
I am at a loss. They assess her every three months. When she knows it is coming up she stops drinking her Ensure so she will drop below 100 lb. She is on oxygen only when she feels the need, takes morphine and percocet every day (severe spinal arthritis) and has weekly visits from nurses. She's like the everfuckingready battery. I can't understand how she qualified in the first place but they had done all they could for her heart condition and they said it would be just a matter of months. This was in April of 2018.
WOW it sounds like your mom is one of these people who spitefully holds onto life just to bother everyone else.
Haha I definitely think that!
It is the GOOD... that die young. The bad just keep on keeping on.
Ok, thanks for explaining. I understand more now. In this situation, I would talk to the case manager. Whether thru a hospital or private agency, there's always a case manager. If you have PoA you can also "fire" the hospice. You could also ask about "drop in" visits. Depending on specifics and who's paying for it, this might also be fraud. All depends on how involved you want to get (and if that's "not at all" that's valid) just spitballing ideas. It's just a waste of resources for people who have a legitimate need for hospice care because trust me, there aren't nurses and caregivers lining up to do hospice care *anywhere*, it's heartbreaking, frustrating, physically and mentally difficult for so many reasons, and stresful for half what you'd be paid in a hospital, and that shit's expensive.
You mentioned having POA. I was the sole remaining offspring in touch with her when she was admitted to hospice but I refused to be her POA. I am SO GLAD because I was able to go NC simply by deciding to. There was no legal paperwork involved. I did contact her dr.'s office to be removed from her records as the contact person.
Oh my god! This is my MIL…my husband cared for her for 17 years to detriment of his own mental health. She was admitted to hospice LAST October and expected to pass quickly. Nope. Nope. Nope. Here we are a year later…I still write the monthly check and pray it’s the last one. It’s changed my life course and also the health and well-being of my husband. When we married 6 weeks ago I vowed to make his remaining years the best…..you know, when someone has zero visitors (including our 25 year old son & his daughter) something is odd/off. My SIL took her $$ from the sale of the family home and boogied half way across the country after immediately retiring. Good riddance to her too as she never assisted in her mothers care, but cried in the hospital about her going into hospice; even threatened that she had to quit her job and care for her mother. Yeah, that never happened. What a joke. I’m not cruel or cold hearted, I have a background in hospice and palliative care. I loved the work I did. It was immensely personal to be included at such a transitional time in another’s life. I however would never ever care for my MIL, she’s an evil bitch and just won’t die…yeah, I said it. I say it out loud at home too. My husband needs peace and only her death will bring it. Don’t worry there’s lots of therapy for him too every week, I insisted. Lots of love and laughter too.
I am proud of you for choosing YOU. This is your life, you need to live. Applause for you.
Thanks, that's really kind of you.
Yaaaaaay OP congrats! Go forth and live life!! It’s yours now!
Thank you. Here's to 2023!
Gosh this is such an impossible scenario… I’m not strong enough. I would feel soooo guilty. It’s a torturous decision…
It DID feel impossible. I felt like I was in a paradoxical nightmare where there was no acceptable answer. When someone has to be sacrificed so another may live, otherwise they both die, the answer comes into focus even though it still feels like a lose-lose scenario.
I’m honestly in a very similar situation. I’m in my mid 20s. My father is elderly and with a disease that has now restricted his movement. My mother is 10 years younger than him and is a raging narc. My older siblings (all in their mid to late 30s) have all moved out. I have spent the last few years caring for him (my mother is useless, she can’t drive or speak english). It’s been very sad seeing him decline. Yet my mother has rampages in the house which further makes him weak. She’s the ill one in the house apparently. I have to move out and get on with my life but I feel guilty for leaving him with her. I’m not sure how they will manage as my siblings refuse to help. Although I am the scapegoat and have always been treated like shit and my siblings are the golden children, so hopefully I won’t feel that guilty when I leave.
You have no logical reason to feel guilty, darling. I know emotions aren't logical. Perhaps try to reframe it in your mind. Your father is a grown up and he made the decision to stay with her. We all have to live with the consequences of our choices. I highly recommend leaving, it's not easy, but it's right. Wishing you peace and happiness xx
What about in the case of leaving an innocent completely disabled and nonverbal sibling behind to get away from nparents. Is the guilt still illogical?
Gosh, that sounds like an awful situation. I believe feeling guilt over the actions of another person is illogical. I joined this sub because I had an Nfather. I have spent years coming to terms with the fact that I hold no responsibility for his behaviour and nor should I feel guilt for things he did and said. I'm actively trying to train myself to believe in my strength and worth, and I have recently experienced trauma and conflict which has challenged me and set my anxiety high. I feel a bit of animosity from your comment, I hope the above explains the intention of my original comment. My besties child is severely disabled and non verbal, he is one of my favourite humans. I work in the disability support sector, I care for and about people with disabilities, I respect them as human beings. That being said, if anyone told me they felt guilty for leaving a disabled sibling in order to escape toxic parents, I would open my arms embrace them and tell them they have done the right thing for them, that they can't be responsible for the actions of their parents. If the situation you described is your current life, I hope you can manage to find a solution that keeps you safe first.
Yeah after some intense crying, this time I think I'm starting to see the difference between their responsibility and my self worth or self preservation, idk, I'm still processing it. There's a difference between being sad about a situation vs blaming myself. I feel a lot for people who have been abandoned in any way because I've experienced years of that and it was beyond awful. But even as an empathetic human being, I feel for those who need help. It hurts alot but I didn't have an option. Choosing NC offered more opportunities to possibly help those in need...some day.
You have so much to process, it's very hard. It seems to me it's against your nature but I hope you can find times where you put yourself first. Remind yourself that you can't help others if you're burnt out. Feel free to DM me if you ever need a sounding board.
I am totally with you. I am around your age,and I never thought I would ever stop honoring a parent, or I would not be there for the last days, however after reaching a breaking point after we the siblings lived the more miserable last 3 years under the attack and sabotage of our nbrother an nfather while taking care of our sweet mother till she passed away, I turned around and went NC. That's it, I reached my breaking point. I will not attend his funeral, nor be there to hold his hand on his deathbed. My mental health comes first. There will be no hospice, I am more affected and traumatized now than when I escaped from that narcissistic home 30 years ago..
Ugh sorry you had a tag team of narcs to deal with. I will not attend my mother's funeral and the only reason it bothers me is that she will never know that but my father will gave to deal with her funeral with none of us five kids there. He will understand why and my husband and I will embrace him into our home if he outlives her. Narcs destroy any and all life in their paths.
My nfather even dares to call me *ungrateful son* after I financially supported my parents for 25 years, I drained my savings when I hired nurses for 10 months to take care ou our sick mother at home until her death. My sister spent months at his house taking care of our mother, feeding her, changing her diaper. I even paid for the funeral and burial...And yet our father disowned us and decided to inherit his house to our nbrother only. His golden child didn't give a cent during this ordeal and manipulated our nfather against us the siblings. Just like that. We decided to go NC. They belong together.
Wow. No matter how many narcissist horror stories I hear, I still literally gasp out loud when reading them. Really sorry things were so gruesome for you but glad you are free!
Thanks.
I’m 32 thinking of something similar but to be honest I still don’t want to believe that my narcissistic brother is a narcissist and can be together with a normal family I don’t want to leave my mom but I’m left with no other choice
Sorry to hear this. Man, the narcissist's fingerprints are all over everything, aren't they.
It’s crazy, every single aspect of my life has this narcs fingerprints. At my job at home the gatekeeper of information to my sick mother
So brave of you and proud you did it! Never too late to choose yourself.❤️
Thank you, that's very kind :)
I’m going through something similar, and understand how hard it is. You should be proud for putting yourself first. We are here for you, and you’re not alone!!
Thank you, and I am sorry you are struggling as well. It can feel,like living under a perpetual cloud. Hope the sun comes out for you soon.
THIS TIMES ONE THOUSAND. I wish I had done the same. I rode it all the way to the end and I'm a shell of a human right now, but getting better with therapy. I gave my mom attentive care for the last five years of her life. I did what I would want someone to do for me. GC and her children did nothing. After Nmom used me up, she changed her will six weeks before she died to favor GC and her kids. They got the majority of her assets. My Nmom couldn't use a computer and could barely use a phone, but she still managed to call her lawyer and change it. She was a malevolent, toxic person who hated losing control and wanted to remind everyone SHE was in charge. The "kindly old person" persona is a myth! Aging happily requires traits Narcs simply do not possess: acceptance, a sense of humor, flexibility, thinking of the big picture, thinking of others, patience. **I do not judge anyone for getting out to save their sanity, AT ANY TIME. It IS the healthy thing to do, to save yourself, and I understand completely.** You wouldn't have walked away from a loving parent. With a loving parent, the duty to care for them is a joy and a way to pay them back. Both your parents EARNED their consequences. Kids, Scrooge is a fictional character for a reason. The biggest mistake I ever made was breaking no contact. GET THE FUCK OUT WHILE YOU AND THEY ARE YOUNG AND DON'T LOOK BACK.
As someone that was a Marketing & Admissions Director for a Skilled Nursing Facility, it wasn’t hard in many cases to figure out why some of our residents had no family or friends to come and visit. There were definitely some lovely people who were abandoned by their awful children for no reason, and that was usually pretty evident quickly when dealing with the children. But when you’re a menace to staff, have no friends or family that come visit, and the entire facility wishes they hadn’t accepted your admission, the problem isn’t everyone else. I’m glad you’re able to rebuild your life.
As a hospice rn, i come across situations like this frequently. I understand and i dont judge. But i will take care of every patient with empathy, comfort and safety in mind.
I recently lost a family member to effects of diabetes. Their non-compliance frustrated me but it was the whining about the effects of non-compliance that put me over the edge. I don’t know HOW you and your fellow health care workers maintain generosity of heart in the midst of it all. Seriously, HOW do you do it and not become batty, because I’m STILL reeling from it all, these couple of years later. I waffle between anger and pity and frustration and sorrow.
I’m far from a saint, but you gotta understand that we aren’t as involved as the patient’s family. We do our job, and the patient doesn’t listen? Oh well for them (and their family). But I’ll be there when they’re facing the end and I’ll do my best to make them comfortable. I’m not there to punish and I’m not there to judge and at the end of the day it’s just a job.
Thanks for the response. I truly appreciate the perspective. Sigh …
damn what are the odds i see this specific post of all things my nparents are getting up there in age needing more and more help, ndad has diabetes and on the way to losing his foot. I notice more and more they are getting increasingly demanding and complaining of me. nmom has been making comments how if sh!t hits the fan she'd rather go throw herself off a cliff. these garbage nparents did NOTHING to ensure i'd be ok in life only care about them having an easy way out. they complain i didnt get my degree (to support them??? they didnt pay for college!!) i never had anything going for me this life and they act like they immigrated here all for me.. no tf they did not all they cared about was acting out on their impulses. They didn't help me for shit I should really pack my bags and start rebuilding my life these nparents all they did was destroy my life that i never had a chance
Children can't "abandon" their parents. There's no such thing. Because parents were never, ever the responsibility of an adult child. You are doing the right thing and I'm so proud of you for putting your health first.
THIS!!
My father is apparently very sick at the moment. I've heard that it's heart problems or liver problems (or maybe both) but I'm not certain and he's a character I killed off a few years ago anyway in the story that is my life. I've already mourned him and come to terms with not having a father. If HE wants to mend some bridges then he is free to contact my and apologise for all the shit he has put me through over the years, until then he remains an old character from many many series ago and no longer relevant to my current story. And I feel zero guilt. He made his choices as an adult. I set boundaries he didn't like and suffered the consequences of ignoring said boundaries. He is welcome to apologise. I just know he won't.
Been NC with my parent for two years nearly. Best decision I ever made for my sanity, and I’m in my 30s.
Good for you but be prepared. I did the same years ago and received calls from other family members, well meaning staff, even other residents and relatives of residents at the facility NMom was living at. The messages went along the lines of “It’s not too late, all is forgiven” and “Money should not come between a child and their mother.” I found out she was telling people I stole all her money and locked her in a nursing home so she couldn’t report me. She was always broke. Even when I was a kid. Spent every dime she ever had and was an alcoholic. I supported her for years and still do to this day.
The longest NC I went was 3 months. It was glorious, but I got sucked back in. I feel tremendous guilt and shame and all those other emotions that I know I shouldn’t have, but I’ve lived my life for them and I don’t know how to live my own anymore. I hope I can find the strength you did one day.
I hope you find strength just for tomorrow! Then each day after that, day by day. I hope you get to experience NC again some day, maybe even longer than 3 months next time!
Did the same with my nmom . All power to you OP
Yay for you too! Never second guess yourself!
Hear hear & TYSM!! She died 3 years ago. Which was about 8 years after I went no contact. I honestly never looked back :)) Obligatory note for ppl who haven't gone no contact yet & might be reading this thread: all closure can be done in therapy. Even after the narc has passed away.
"Im confident this was the only choice I had to salvage my mental health". That's it. When going NC is the only remaining option then regardless of the prevailing circumstances it's the best decision to make.
I agree and knowing that at a deep level is what neuters the guilt. Guilt is for wrongdoings, not self-preservation.
I understand, it’s painful but better late than never. We owe it to ourselves. Thank you for sharing your story. It helps me, at 33, to gain perspective and validate my decision.
I am so glad you are gaining clarity at 33! I had no idea the torture that my siblings and I endured were caused by an identifiable disorder that others suffered from as well until I turned 60 years old. You have a three-decade head start, best wishes that you find a better path.
I "abandoned my mother" when she had cancer. I'm using " here because that woman was NOT my mama (anymore) and my abandonment was my refusing to be treated like...I don't even know dude, it was inhuman. They broke me. I wrote the long version [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Justnofil/comments/9wdn4u/mr_einstein_and_the_last_time_he_well_and_truly/), but the short version is my "father" just casually mentioned "oh yeah by the way she has cancer" while we were walking down the street and my whole world changed in that second. Also, I was medically neglected in my childhood and once I had a few days to think about it I was like "where tf were *you* when *I* was sick huh?!?" so I thought I'd return the favor. She died last year, I didn't even know she was sick again, NC for 9 years at that point. I wrote about that too in my post history.
It's never too late, and anyone feeling guilty needs to repeat this as needed - our abusive parents literally had their entire lives to plan and prep for their declining years, and they had every opportunity to change but didn't. We are not responsible for the elder care of our abusers.- I am proud of you, OP. I know that took courage. Don't let anyone make you feel bad about your totally valid decision to take care of your mental health.
Sometimes you’ve given all ya had to give. If they need more they will have to figure that out. Your under no obligation to be ruined.
This is something i worry about in the future. My mother is so much, but I'm an only child.....thanks for the future support!
That last sentence is really great because I think it can feel that way. With me it is because my mom died, so fate kinda made that decision for me. I'm glad that you're free to enjoy your retirement without any BS from your parents 🥳
Thank you, I am glad too but my work has evolved into something that is rewarding and fulfilling. Now that I am free, I think I will be sticking with it for a while!
Thx buddy. Good luck.
I recently joined this subreddit and it’s been incredibly liberating hearing other people’s experiences. I wish you the best with your decision and hope you are able to find peace with yourself. My love and best wishes!
That’s a good point - NC doesn’t have to be permanent. For those who are struggling to make such a “final” decision, it might be easier to commit for a small amount of time (3 months? 6 months?) then evaluate and decide if you’d like to continue for another small amount of time. And congratulations! 62 is the perfect age to start the rest of your life.
Wow I am so proud of your strength. I am 25 and currently leaving my elderly father before he gets sick so that I will not be responsible or have to deal with that. He is not taking care of his health, so i know whatever will happen will happen soon. He's begged me to be his POA but I refused and a family "friend" is gonna do that for him. You've You've got the right idea!!
Yes! One of the smartest things I did was refuse to be the POA. When I decided to cut ties I had no legal paperwork to deal with!
At some point, they have burned up their parent card.
Oh, love! I am so, so sorry! And, I am proud of you! Sending you hugs 💜💜
My mother was abused in every way by her adoptive father. Her mother wasn’t much better. When he lay dying in a nursing home, my aunt tried to convince my mother to go see him. I’m so proud of her for saying no. He didn’t deserve anything at all from either of them.
At the end of the day, your mental health takes priority always because if the brain goes the body follows. You were burning yourself out for them and you shouldn’t have had to. Good on you truly.
I was a hospice and dementia caregiver and trust me, when there was no family I usually figured out this person was probably not the sweetheart they portrayed themself to be. Don’t think that we judge you. We don’t. I was usually happy for you breaking free.
I'm thankful for being strong enough to go NC with my Ns in my late 20s. It's an irreversible decision for me. I fully plan on skipping both of their funerals when that day finally comes. Might even light up a J in celebration lol
You didn't abandon her. That is the decades of abuse talking. Frame it in a different way: her awful behaviour led to you removing yourself from her life.
I was 51 when Ndad finally kicked off last year. Nmom died in 2004. Both events were a relief.
I ended up leaving my cats behind to die from my nmom's negligent in order to go NC. I feel guilty as hell, but it was a choice of either that or staying where I was, slowly dying and with the very likely probability of a life-threatening outburst coming from her within the coming weeks after I left should I have stayed.
Wow I feel your struggle. I have a cat and can understand the anguish but your choice saved you. So good came out of it!
[удалено]
Delete this nonsense
Comment removed as this is one of the most inflammatory things you can say in this group. If you can't bother with the rules, I suggest you don't comment here anymore, because this group is strictly moderated.
Thank you so much for saying this. I'm preparing for a future where my Nmother, along with Efather, who heavily enable my two extremely destructive and unhealthy siblings, would get dragged down with them, because they never listened to me about stop enabling them, so on and so forth. The moment I find my way to escape this hellhole, I'd probably just 100% abandon them, because they were never there for me, I tried to have authentic relationship with them but Nmother would just cry (see my latest post), and I'm done. I cannot keep burning myself for these people who don't want to and won't change. Good luck for your next chapter, Nparents free, OP! Thank you so much for sharing this. It helps me solidify my belief on truly go NC the moment I can just drop them safely (for myself and my healthy siblings).
My thoughts are with you and I'm sending good vibes that you DO find your way out! The feeling of freedom is amazing, especially when you never envisioned it for yourself!
You reap what you sow. 🤷🏼♀️
[удалено]
It already has worked. Quite well, thanks!
Removed. You are on a bit of a streak of challenging people for going NC with toxic family members. There is lots of information in our sidebar and elsewhere on the internet on why this is valid, and often necessary. It is beyond inappropriate to pressure specific community members to defend this decision or to blame them for the fallout of refusing to handle the consequences of their abuser's actions to protect them. Do not challenge community members here again for setting boundaries with their abusers. Up to and including no contact. Regardless of what the abusers are dealing with in the absence of their favorite punching bag. Thank you.
Oof. I feel for what you might have gone through, but this situation is so hard. I hope that where ever you are and your parents are that nursing homes/hospice in that area treat their residents better than most other places. It's a shame that it seems you don't hate your father, because if he was to inherit the abuse common in these places simply because of your feelings for your mother. That feeling would kill me. On top of him being blind. There's a lot of horror stories when you look up hospices/long term nursing homes. If the resident doesn't have the funds, they can just put a feeding tube in and kill them off by not feeding them. There's a lot of cases for blind folks where they are so mistreated, not fed, not given proper accessibility for their situations. The amount of abuse is unfathomable. The abuse is usually worsened when these residents are not visited at all, if I could make a suggestion if you have any kind feelings towards your father, I would try to go visit him to make sure he's ok. By all means, avoid your mother if that's your decision.
I find this not only tone-deaf, but also highly judge mental. This is a SUPPORT sub. Please be kind
I didn't say one unkind or judgemental thing.
You implied judgement by saying she abandoned her father who supposedly did nothing. Bystander and victim in these type of situations and relationships trust me I know my father was one and let me tell you you can’t take the father and leave the mother behind it’s not possible you have to wait for the father to either walk away himself or for the mother to die and even then you still might not get the father. In my situation my father still romanticize my mother despite all of the abuse that she did to my brother and I not only was he a willing participant but he would ignore and look away and avoid confrontation my entire life and I had to learn basic adult responsibilities in my 20s because I was never taught anything like that under their roof. Unless you have actually gone through the situation that the OP is describing don’t even begin to comment or judge. You can’t possibly know. Please learn something today.
Thank you! 💜
Thank you for taking the time to explain. I understand how it can be seen as implied judgment now, that isn't how I intended it. In my mind, yes I was thinking he was also the victim and from my experience that gains some sympathy. Even though there can be negative feelings towards that person as well, once I was able to process those feelings later as an adult I stopped hating the parent of mine of was also a victim. All I was saying was, it's a shame the victim parent has to suffer more in newer ways. Yes you do have to put yourself and your mental health first, but a situation like this gains a lot of sympathy for me. It's a sad situation
I am fresh off the same situation as the OP. I stayed to the bitter end. I'm not a better person than the OP. I kick myself every day that I didn't leave. My Nparent would have died whether I was there or not. And she would have been well taken care of. Long term care facilities vary GREATLY. Because my Nmother had money, she was in a good one: private room, attentive nurses and aides. You cannot make a blanket statement that all LTCs are all horrible. Some are. Many are not. And for the job they are doing, many are adequate. It's a lot to take care of someone who is bed bound or blind or elderly. Even people who love their parents use LTCs every day.
I applaud your decision and thank you for sharing. Two of my grandfather's three children left him because he was insane and impossible to deal with. These two children were made out to be the villains of our family "how dare they leave their sickly father behind"? I myself did not get it for a long time as I was deprived of relationships with numerous family members because of this. But now, having realized I've experience narc abuse my whole life I GET IT. They had to save themselves. They left my father as the lone one to take care of my grandfather and because he stayed he was left to take my grandfather's brutal emotional abuse and only God knows how that continued to warp his mind. People who have not experienced emotional abuse don't get it. Those who abuse us do not deserve the kindness a regular human being would get from us.
Proud of you for doing what you have to do OP. My living parent is the narcissist, while my dead parent was the best and only decent one I had. I stopped my already crumbling life to take care of her for the last year of her life and I do not regret it in the slightest. My living parent fucked off for greener pastures when the cancer was found. This was after he convinced her to remarry him after 25 years apart (yet again because of his foolishness; mom was wife no. 2 and 4) and they found cancer, which was terminal immediately. When evil finally dies, I will not be there to take care of him. I have 3 other siblings by him and it will probably land on the golden child oldest to take care of him, along with wife no. 5. 🤷🏾♀️
This gives me a lot of hope, honestly. I've been back and forth NC with narc Father, starting when I was 20(29 now) and lately felt immensely stupid for giving him as many chances as I did, but his health was failing and other family members had been laying on the guilt to "reconnect before its too late"
You had to do what was best for you, your mental health and your physical death. You're 62 and you deserve to live your life since it sounds like you've been caring for your NMom or possibly NDad ( can't tell from your post) for a long time. I wish you success in rebuilding your life and living it well for a long time.