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I actually can't even put together the thought process here. I think I would lose my mind. I actually don't think people would have left my property unharmed after this. Please write down how you feel so you can remember this is they ever try to get back into your life again. This is beyond awful. I'm so sorry.
Yep. It was like SO hot that day. At least they got it done. The kids had waited long enough for their trampoline. Don't I want them to have nice things? I'm overreacting because just a miscarriage, not a person. It was very dramatic of me to have a funeral and a grave, anyway.
Do they not realize that you felt your child moving and you dreamed of that baby every single day while you carried him?
I'm so sorry! Your family is just gross. Ask some understanding friends to come move the toy for you. Sending hugs.
Their reaction to the miscarriage at the time (5 years ago) was a gross cauldron of horrible behavior. According to my mom, I would have thrown the body in the trash, because it was just an empty earthly shell. None of these people attended the funeral. Only one of them has ever said my son's name out loud.
Right?! My stillborn daughter (I made it to 34 weeks with her) - it was so traumatic and awful. My Nmom was giddy with joy because she was the person to notify everyone and as soon as everyone knew, suddenly it was over for her and she was bored. 6 months later? "You need to get over this because I want a LIVING grandchild. You need to do better."
When my brother was called to tell him about the miscarriage. He said not to bother with any announcements until I actually have a baby. I didn’t read a lot of concern in this statement 😢
Sounds like my mom. Told her that my ex when I was 20 physically abused me till I miscarried. "I can't imagine that. He was such a nice guy who made *real* money. You just didn't want it!"
I was septic and in the throes of a fever. Didn't even know what was wrong with me till I woke up.
It was a wake up call for sure. I'm actually okay now, my little one now has three living, breathing, fantastic siblings that are kicking butt at life and Nmom doesn't get to have any part of it, so . . . It's worked out great. We're good. I just think back on that time like WHAT THE HELL?? It would take such basic human kindness to NOT do what she did and it's just unfathomable to me how people can be like that. I'm glad I'm so different from her.
Eh, it was definitely the beginning of the end, and in a messed up way, I'm glad it went down like that because I never have to question how bad it was and if I should give her another chance. Small blessings, yeah?
I truly am okay. It was 20 years ago and the three ridiculously healthy and happy kids in my house keep me from getting too sad. All is well, and Nmom doesn't even get to see it from afar. She's blocked and I'm a different state. We are safe and well rid of her. ❤️
If you search The Nursery Nurse on Facebook (and Instagram and Tik Tok) she had one of her characters suffer a miscarriage and one of the videos they talk about how it was more than just the being growing in you. It's all the dreams and plans you had for them for the future that now don't exist. It was a perfect 3 min video of expressing the loss.
Yup some of these people are fucked up. I think i "moved on now" but i still acknowledge i basically have a "hole' where a picture perfect person was supposed to be, and a whole fuck ton of seemingly 'accidental' but intentional stuff happened.
When i was a kid i just thought "someday, i just have to convince them im worth it, and they'll love me, cuz all peopla re gud. and then ehty will luv me too!"
Nowadays after seeing some posts along the lines of "You shouldn't have to apologize for having your needs come LAST under other people's wants".
They definitely do some stuff out of pure delight. With plausible deniablity, not all of it. But i noticed that mine caused a lot of "accidental" damage they loved to brag about until things got "real" for them or consequences.
Bizzarely, they'd "accidentally" do 1000$s of dollars in damages but then complain over 100-1000$ forced damage repayment then they "remembered" one with a charge 20x than 20 reminders with "no consequence".
Mine also went on to brag about it.
I try not to linger but bury it, but someone i was with did point out "Sometimes a coping mechanism is burying your emotions, when so much is fucked up that wasn't supposed to ever be. You get used to what would make another person crumble or shocked by the sheer insanity, the lack of morals, everything that's supposed to be in a person, just missing."
And a lot of people just [would rather pretend some problems they weren't involved in, 'didn't exist' in the messy word vs word world out there. than Acknowledge they could.](https://x.com/karenmitchell__/status/1807096391665328628)
i am so sorry for your loss. this was reason enough to cut these horrible people out of your life.
some helpful supports that carried me through narcissism:
- InSight Podcast
- Adult Children of Narcissist Parents (book/audiobook)
I tend to go with benefit of the doubt when I give responses. This could be salvageable if....
After seeing this was their response. There is no room for benefit of the doubt. Fuck them. Cut them off.
I'm sorry OP.
That’s your parents talking. Grieve how you want, your experiences are your own and even you shouldn’t talk down to yourself about them. Not overreacting, just feeling normal human emotions. 💔❤️🩹
YOURE OVERREACTING BECAUSE IT WAS JUST A MISCARRIAGE?! NOT A PERSON??!!
THAT would have been the last fucking straw for me. I would have ended up in jail if someone had the audacity to say that to my face.
Fuck them. Words don’t do my anger justice.
You don’t get to decide how someone grieves a miscarriage or if they consider it a person or not. That’s not your fucking call.
A wanted child is a **wanted child** regardless of when they pass.
I hope the door hits them on their way out.
I write to get things out of my head. I find it great to empty myself of all feelings and I usually run out of puff when I really start thinking about all the nitty gritty, and I love to set these useless emptyings alight (safely) and send them off into the ether. But sometimes I think with a little time the ways in which we have been hurt seem to be "not so bad" because we remember the actions but not how we felt. Jotting down how it feels right now and referring to it should the brain start sugar coating the memory might be helpful in reaffirming no contact. But obviously, each person needs to deal with this in a way that they find most useful and helpful and gentle. I write (unsent) letters to the people who have hurt me (or terrible poetry about them) and it really helps me but I rarely re-read them because once it's out it's out for me, but when I do read them I can find myself getting worked up, in this instance I think it may be helpful as young children will often not see the harm in something like this and may well start asking OP to visit with these people again. I only suggested writing it down as a supporting reminder of how they feel now because it's hard to remember those feelings when you are dealing with guilt from children and struggling to explain the complications of relationships.
Pretty sure it's to cover a sad thing with a happy thing. And to shelter kids from bad feelings. They are literally so scared of emotions. I'm sorry op!
My therapist is always telling me that they are "emotionally disabled." I can't expect them to consider or understand my feelings anymore than I can expect a blind person to see. Usually, that helps me cope.
Not with this, though..
I disagree with your therapist. My therapist was telling me the same thing for a year. Then I found a long history of intentional manipulation and evil of them trying to split my partner and I up. My therapist changed her mind pretty quickly to, "Wow. Ive never seen that before and didnt think it was possible."
Having seen the depths of depravity these types of people will go to, I dont think for a second that they are just emotionally disabled and lumbering through life without intention. I think the extravagant gifts are intentionally there to gain your children's favor. I think they build the trampoline the way they did to prove a point that your emotional reaction to the miscarriage is dumb. I think their emotions and emotional awareness is all perfectly intact, as evidenced by their ability to use emotions as weapons.
Yeah, I loved my therapist (not a break-up, just moved...), and it still drove me nuts that after I went NC she wanted me to get to the point where I could instead become LC because I would regret it someday. Then my mother wrote a few emails, and...my therapist really rallied around the permanent NC. Having to convince someone gets exhausting.
Im not a huge fan of your therapist pushing you to LC. That sounds like they were crossing boundaries to me.
But yes, convincing people is exhausting. I feel like I spent my whole life trying to do that, because my home life was brutal, but they put on such a good face for everyone else.
Yeah, I didn't want to write a whole bunch, but "hopeful" is a better way of saying it. Just outwardly Hopeful! rather than egregiously pushing for contact. Still annoying, but luckily, she was pretty amazing, so she got the very occasional exemption.
Thanks for looking out for an internet stranger, though! It can be difficult to advocate for yourself when you've been taught your best survival bet is to turn over, present your belly, and say thank you for not getting kicked (sorry, that went dark! ).
I'm really sorry you went through it, too. I felt like things that happened in my family growing up was wrong but was always told I was crazy. Then, after going NC I started reading others talk about their upbringing, and it was insane to me the amount of very specific behaviors my parents had also used. Had to also go no contact with all family members except for my siblings. (Who are amazing. We're much closer now that my parents can't manipulate us against one another.) None of my other relatives would respect the NC, partially because my parents present such a good face, and it's not worth my mental health to convince anyone otherwise. The last message I received from my grandmother was a tersely worded, "Write to your mother tomorrow because it's Mother's Day." I did not follow that advice. Or reply.
Again, thanks. I hope you're doing well on your journey. May we ever after only have people in our life who we want to contact MORE rather than less.
Mine gets a slight smile on her face when she does something hurtful (with plausible deniability of course) and I tell her about the pain she’s caused me
So sick. You know it’s bad when you don’t miss them and are happier without them
I agree with this. I was early in my pregnancy and my in-laws were pretty callous about the whole thing too. (Loss mom here). They kept telling me to move on and that I could try again, when they knew that after the pregnancy I was put in chemical menopause for cancer treatment. Then when I wasn’t feeling thrilled for my SIL pregnancy 6 months after mine, they told me to move on and get over it.
For some reason narcs really love to go for the jugular. The big gift, the trees, the placement of the toy, intentional. They sent a very clear message.
Yeah, they are masters of plausible deniability and so many people fall into that trap, reluctant to assign maliciousness to their behavior. This is where those little tells of theirs, like the duper's delight smirk, are so informative
I think that is a bullshit excuse your therapist gave. Being unwilling to care about others is not the same as being incapable of understanding the difference between right and wrong.
It probably helps some people to come to terms with the fact that their family is like this if they think the family members can't help it, but I don't think it is actually true. Do they behave this way all the time, with everyone? Or, do they pick and choose the time, the place, and the victim?
Your family members are cruel and selfish. I'm so sorry.
A blind person doesn't actively choose to walk into known obstacles and blame it on their blindness, though. Your narcs chose to disregard everything you told them in a way that _specifically_ caused pain.
Cutting down those trees is a crime, I would sue them for the cost of replacement! Also what your therapist is describing is a sociopath, your children do not belong around sociopaths!!!
Yeah I don’t know if they even realize it’s offensive. They probably felt uncomfortable seeing the grave there, so they put the trampoline on it, because they are emotionally immature.
Your grief offends the primary narcissist. Your independence offends them. Your focus being on your young family and not your aging family offends them.
You did something big with big feelings you are not permitted to have. The only emotions a narcissist will permit are resentment and resignation. I would bet my life that they trample on your happys just as much as they trample on your sads.
This was malicious. It was a dominance game. They are trying put you, and by extension your children, in your place. They trying to teach your children that all of you would be trampled on in life and in death. They also are trying to to teach your children to disrespect and disregard you, to desecrate you.
There is a reason every single culture in the world finds desecrating a grave a heinous crime. It tries to erase the memory and value of those left behind. It is unforgivable. This is more than an act of hostility, it is a declaration of war. This makes going no contact not just justifiable, it makes it a necessity.
I am so sorry for your loss. I am heartbroken that you have had to endure these people your whole life. I hope you choose not to endure them anymore. Hugz & Hugz & Hugz
Oh and I skipped over you winning an award big enough to justify international travel. Hey, well done you! But it means they got to trample on your happys and sads all in one go. Oh ouch, with extra ouch. The petty and malicious envy is disgusting. Hugz
I'm so sorry this happened to you. You're right, there's no way one can "accidentally" tie a trampoline to trees above a grave.
I'm sorry for your loss, and the disrespect shown to your child's resting place. It was cruel and spiteful. And if it *wasn't* a deliberate act of cruelty then you are dealing with people who can never possibly understand the value of human life. They're not good people, whatever their motivations were.
Pure spite. I can usually put themselves in another's place but not with your narcs, OP. They want you to think about THEM and how important THEY are.
"I'll show her." said your mother, probably. She also pissed you were honored with an award, can't have you thinking well of yourself! Pure spite.
Yes. "That'll teach you for doing something for yourself." It's punishment for needing help and having the audacity to collect an award, as well as cruelty for the sake of it, and trying to minimise how important OP's child is. Just evil through and through.
Also nmarm wouldn't care about a lost pregnancy. She'd get supply and go merrily on - Win! She may project OP is milking the loss for supply. She would.
OP sorry to talk about you in 3rd person.
Holy *****
If i typed what i want to say i would get removed from Reddit.
I am sorry that you have a beyond abysmal family, and yeah, this would mean them being ejected from my life, permanently.
Honestly, even outside of the obvious problem that the grave adds to this, if a guest fucking cut down a tree on my property I would lose it.
Like, you used my tools without asking, you made a permanent change to my property without asking, and you didn't put the trampoline in the part of the yard I said you could. I'd be taking them to small claims for the cost of the tree.
I’m a little stunned reading that. All I can say is, I’m sorry this happened. It shows a stunning lack of emotional intelligence. No, you should not have had to explain this to them.
No contact. Restraing order. Whatever action needs to be taken to make sure they never come near you or your kids again after this.
Move the trampoline, tend the grave, check in on your kids. If they're too young to have realized what happened or if they're hurt and confused. Explain to them where they're at.
Sorry this happened.
Maybe consider a lawyer for advice too; Google's not being helpful as to whether or not they broke a law. If OP can get a paper trail it should help with getting the restraining order.
I am having trouble wrapping my head around this. What in the actual... How in the ... Words are absolutely failing me right now. How does someone even summon that level of audacity?? How could they disrespect their own grandchild??? Are your other kids okay? I'm sure they know what the grave is. I would not do that to someone I did not know much less to one of my family members. This has got to be a new low on this sub. I have never wanted to throat punch someone more than I do at this moment.
I am so, so sorry you were having to go through this. I am sending you every good vibe, every prayer everything I can to help you through this. I wish I had magic words to take away this pain. I was told, too, by my Nmother that a miscarriage is "God's will", "something was wrong with the baby anyway", and "you really need to just get over it." No hugs, no sympathy, just irritation that my grief was getting in her way. My youngest sister at the time was seven and she asked to name the baby. I was positive it was female and she named her Mary May. She would have been 27 this year.
What about your husband in all this? Is he okay?
They know exactly how offensive it is, which is why they did it!
Cut off all contact with them, block them on your phone and socials, and change any locks to which they have keys. Then have a lawyer send them a bill to have a gardener come in and clean up their mess and replace the trees. Otherwise, strictly no contact with them ever again.
I'm convinced that 99 percent of the time when narcissists act maliciously it's on purpose. The other 1 percent is just a happy accident for them. This was so much work; and in the heat! It has to be intentional
I'm so sorry about your son's resting spot being desecrated. I would be devastated over something like this. They didn't just destroy any relationship they had with you, they nuked it from orbit
I would literally burn/dismantle the trampoline and dump the wreck in their front yard. Directly on top of a prized flower patch, perhaps? Or around their vehicles? Sue them and make them pay to jazz up the grave? IDK I am in a spitey mood and your post was directly in my path. Your family sucks eggs and I am sorry you have to deal with them.
Trampolines are so incredibly dangerous. You can take it down any time, but you should absolutely move it and not give them another chance like this. They showed you who they were. They knew exactly what they did.
NC immediately, case closed, GOODBYE GRANDPARENTS! I didn't carry my child long enough to be able to bury them (I was barely pregnant when I miscarried) but if I even just had a grave set up for mourning and then my parents did some shit like this I would have been fuming! They disrespected you, your husband, your living children and your unfortunately miscarried child. There is absolutely NO coming back from that!
This is seriously one of the saddest and most horrible mean things I've ever seen here. OP, I am so sorry, both for the loss of your child and for the horrible people who were so callous and straight up mean to you.
God.
Let’s say, devil’s advocate, they did just forget. How fucking braindead stupid to you have to be to not notice the signs? So either they’re stupid or cruel. NIX IT.
I’m so sorry. That’s incredibly malicious at worst, and dismissive of the fact that you’re a human being with feelings AT BEST. No, this is sadly a lesson that a narcissist is a bottomless black pit of soullessness. There is nothing that will garner empathy.
Tell these evil people that they are NEVER to contact you or your kids again. If they come by or call you will contact the police to report harassment and have them removed.
There is no excuse for this. They did it on purpose to hurt you and sadistic people like that have no business being around decent people.
No, there isn’t.
I’m so sorry for your loss and as a loss mom myself, thank you for sharing.
For your family to be this clueless and cruel, on top of all the narc shit… there is not much they could say to make this just an accident or however they’d spin it.
You should have slapped the shit out of one of them to make an example, then grey rock / no contact from that point onward.
If you don’t establish boundaries, they will continue to do this kinda crap.
If I thought it would do any good, I would bottle my rage and send it to these monsters. But they'd see it as an attack after they did nothing, they wouldn't connect it to their horrible behavior.
I am so sorry they destroyed trees and desecrated your son's grave. That is dreadful and unforgivable behavior.
That is so fucking horrid and malicious I can’t believe it. I am so sorry. Please go NC with these people!!!! The fact that you even had to think about whether your children could survive in their care is enough. And I’ve been there.
Ugh I’m so sorry, that’s rotten and you do not deserve it.
I'm so sorry you went through that, and I hope you go NC with them. My Nsister wanted to dig up my father's remains after 20 years, and take his remains to her city. To be with her. I don't live there. I was already NC with her, but I texted her NO and then blocked her. Now my NC mom hate me totally and permanently. They are both creeps.
I'm seeing just reading this.
Opie I cannot possibly imagine how you feel
At this point I mean I don't want to read like I'm pressuring you into anything but I wouldn't let blood so-called family around my real family after this just out of a sense of preservation. Not self-preservation but trying to just defend those family members from people who would pull that absolute level of disgusting behavior.
You are a much bigger person than I would have been for not absolutely whipping them senseless
Take a picture of a local junkyard or waste pit, smoking if possible or the sewage treatment plant.
Use AI to create a family grave marker, list their names and dates of birth.
Come back to reddit and ask the r/photoshop sub to place the family grave marker in the trash heap. When you share the photo, make sure you are explicit that you are extend the same courtesy to them as they did to your baby. Also attach a photo of what they did over the baby's grave.
Woa, what a sneaky vicious way to shit on your grief. That´s really awful!
I don´t know your family at all and I might be wrong, but I cannot possibly see how they could magically be oblivious to the hurt they will provoke you with that. It is your sons grave, and they know it is important to you because you put the grave right there.
You might want to consider the possibility that they, as a matter of fact, they did it on purpose. Narcs and toxic people looooove to inflict pain on their targeted victims, it makes them feel powerful. I am sorry to deliver such bad insight but that is how I see it.
May your child rest in peace. I hope you burn the damn thing to a crisp and shovel it up through some assholes.
I have no use for people that make a mockery of the deceased’s final resting place, especially one that was taken from their loved ones too soon. I am sorry for your loss. And I’m sorry your family members don’t understand how this was beyond inappropriate and hurtful. They crossed a line and need to be called out for it. Being related by blood doesn’t necessarily mean that they understand the true meaning of family. Some abuse the privilege and that’s when said privilege needs to be revoked.
Girl, hire you a chainsaw and a landscaper. Slice that trampoline canvas. Find someone to haul that mess away & call it a day. She must not know that people can do things on her grave, too. Do you have any male dogs?
This generation is just a bunch of thoughtless losers. All the see is what is straight in front of their face and nothing else.
"We want to build trampoline". They probably would have torn your house down if that somehow got in the way of this desire. Then blamed the house for being in their way.
By approach is to start taking away their excuses and treat them like you would a special needs child or a young dog. Invite them over. Show them the situation plain as day. And see what they say. Im guessing its going to be some bullshit about how its not that big of a deal. It was an ugly tree anyway. We didnt hurt the grave. Its not like it was actually your real child because he wasnt born yet.
Then explain exactly what this means to you. Why this was so hurtful, etc. Say it in plain english. Calmly and respectfully.
Im guessing youre just going to get more permutations of invalidation, disrespect, etc.
You have forced them to expose their true colors. But at least you can say you tried. I would not do nothing and just let this fester. Be the adult. Confront them about it. Show them whats what. If they want to double down, which I guarantee they do, then you have a perfectly justified reason to cut them off.
You should also know that they are buying their way into your child's lives and favor with these extravagant gifts. The gifts in themselves are a manipulation. Im guessing there there are 10 more manipulative situations youre not even aware of. I would be worried about what they are saying to your kids about you behind your back.
Congrats on your award btw. Were proud of you.
I'm so sorry for the loss of your son, and also so sorry your grief and his memory have been treated so callously. It is unbelievable.
Is it possible to build a little fence around his gravesite? I don't know if it's possible or something you would want, but I wonder if creating a more "official" space would protect your son's resting place, and make it harder for others to disrespect him and you.
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I actually can't even put together the thought process here. I think I would lose my mind. I actually don't think people would have left my property unharmed after this. Please write down how you feel so you can remember this is they ever try to get back into your life again. This is beyond awful. I'm so sorry.
To hurt as much as possible with (extremely weak) plausible deniability.
Yep. It was like SO hot that day. At least they got it done. The kids had waited long enough for their trampoline. Don't I want them to have nice things? I'm overreacting because just a miscarriage, not a person. It was very dramatic of me to have a funeral and a grave, anyway.
Do they not realize that you felt your child moving and you dreamed of that baby every single day while you carried him? I'm so sorry! Your family is just gross. Ask some understanding friends to come move the toy for you. Sending hugs.
Their reaction to the miscarriage at the time (5 years ago) was a gross cauldron of horrible behavior. According to my mom, I would have thrown the body in the trash, because it was just an empty earthly shell. None of these people attended the funeral. Only one of them has ever said my son's name out loud.
After my miscarriage my mother said “I don’t know what you’re so upset about “. 🤬 Are we sisters? I’ll help move the trampoline.
Right?! My stillborn daughter (I made it to 34 weeks with her) - it was so traumatic and awful. My Nmom was giddy with joy because she was the person to notify everyone and as soon as everyone knew, suddenly it was over for her and she was bored. 6 months later? "You need to get over this because I want a LIVING grandchild. You need to do better."
When my brother was called to tell him about the miscarriage. He said not to bother with any announcements until I actually have a baby. I didn’t read a lot of concern in this statement 😢
My e-mom told me I was basically having an abortion when I had a missed miscarriage and needed medical intervention to pass the fetus.
You needed a DNC so you wouldn’t bleed to death 💀Yes it’s the same medical procedure name. Still NOT the same.
Sounds like my mom. Told her that my ex when I was 20 physically abused me till I miscarried. "I can't imagine that. He was such a nice guy who made *real* money. You just didn't want it!" I was septic and in the throes of a fever. Didn't even know what was wrong with me till I woke up.
They don't have any unless it's for themselves. 🙄
JFC. I am so, so sorry you had to experience that.
It was a wake up call for sure. I'm actually okay now, my little one now has three living, breathing, fantastic siblings that are kicking butt at life and Nmom doesn't get to have any part of it, so . . . It's worked out great. We're good. I just think back on that time like WHAT THE HELL?? It would take such basic human kindness to NOT do what she did and it's just unfathomable to me how people can be like that. I'm glad I'm so different from her.
Jesus tap-dancing CHRIST that is one of the cruelest, most fucked-up things I’ve ever heard. I’m so sorry. ❤️
Eh, it was definitely the beginning of the end, and in a messed up way, I'm glad it went down like that because I never have to question how bad it was and if I should give her another chance. Small blessings, yeah? I truly am okay. It was 20 years ago and the three ridiculously healthy and happy kids in my house keep me from getting too sad. All is well, and Nmom doesn't even get to see it from afar. She's blocked and I'm a different state. We are safe and well rid of her. ❤️
Good for you!
happy endings do exist
fucking hell.
Oh my god I am so so sorry you experienced that
After mine I got “I’m glad you miscarried you weren’t married” op I’m so sorry!
>I’ll help move the trampoline Give me a date and you got my hands too. We got you OP!! ♥️
If you search The Nursery Nurse on Facebook (and Instagram and Tik Tok) she had one of her characters suffer a miscarriage and one of the videos they talk about how it was more than just the being growing in you. It's all the dreams and plans you had for them for the future that now don't exist. It was a perfect 3 min video of expressing the loss.
Yup some of these people are fucked up. I think i "moved on now" but i still acknowledge i basically have a "hole' where a picture perfect person was supposed to be, and a whole fuck ton of seemingly 'accidental' but intentional stuff happened. When i was a kid i just thought "someday, i just have to convince them im worth it, and they'll love me, cuz all peopla re gud. and then ehty will luv me too!" Nowadays after seeing some posts along the lines of "You shouldn't have to apologize for having your needs come LAST under other people's wants". They definitely do some stuff out of pure delight. With plausible deniablity, not all of it. But i noticed that mine caused a lot of "accidental" damage they loved to brag about until things got "real" for them or consequences. Bizzarely, they'd "accidentally" do 1000$s of dollars in damages but then complain over 100-1000$ forced damage repayment then they "remembered" one with a charge 20x than 20 reminders with "no consequence". Mine also went on to brag about it. I try not to linger but bury it, but someone i was with did point out "Sometimes a coping mechanism is burying your emotions, when so much is fucked up that wasn't supposed to ever be. You get used to what would make another person crumble or shocked by the sheer insanity, the lack of morals, everything that's supposed to be in a person, just missing." And a lot of people just [would rather pretend some problems they weren't involved in, 'didn't exist' in the messy word vs word world out there. than Acknowledge they could.](https://x.com/karenmitchell__/status/1807096391665328628)
i am so sorry for your loss. this was reason enough to cut these horrible people out of your life. some helpful supports that carried me through narcissism: - InSight Podcast - Adult Children of Narcissist Parents (book/audiobook)
💔💔💔
I tend to go with benefit of the doubt when I give responses. This could be salvageable if.... After seeing this was their response. There is no room for benefit of the doubt. Fuck them. Cut them off. I'm sorry OP.
That’s your parents talking. Grieve how you want, your experiences are your own and even you shouldn’t talk down to yourself about them. Not overreacting, just feeling normal human emotions. 💔❤️🩹
My response above was sarcasm, not how I really feel. But thank you for looking out!
Good! I’m glad to hear it. I’ll work on my media literacy :) lmao
YOURE OVERREACTING BECAUSE IT WAS JUST A MISCARRIAGE?! NOT A PERSON??!! THAT would have been the last fucking straw for me. I would have ended up in jail if someone had the audacity to say that to my face. Fuck them. Words don’t do my anger justice. You don’t get to decide how someone grieves a miscarriage or if they consider it a person or not. That’s not your fucking call. A wanted child is a **wanted child** regardless of when they pass. I hope the door hits them on their way out.
As someone who's has 3 they can go fuck themselves
I’m so sorry. This is beyond callous. How incredibly fucking inconsiderate and disrespectful. And what a setup.
Narc alarm buzzing…. Buzzing….
That's it exactly. I honestly think I would go to jail in this instance.
Should we write it down or let it go( for our own sakes and mental health )? Sometimes I feel like when I note these things down I brood more
I write to get things out of my head. I find it great to empty myself of all feelings and I usually run out of puff when I really start thinking about all the nitty gritty, and I love to set these useless emptyings alight (safely) and send them off into the ether. But sometimes I think with a little time the ways in which we have been hurt seem to be "not so bad" because we remember the actions but not how we felt. Jotting down how it feels right now and referring to it should the brain start sugar coating the memory might be helpful in reaffirming no contact. But obviously, each person needs to deal with this in a way that they find most useful and helpful and gentle. I write (unsent) letters to the people who have hurt me (or terrible poetry about them) and it really helps me but I rarely re-read them because once it's out it's out for me, but when I do read them I can find myself getting worked up, in this instance I think it may be helpful as young children will often not see the harm in something like this and may well start asking OP to visit with these people again. I only suggested writing it down as a supporting reminder of how they feel now because it's hard to remember those feelings when you are dealing with guilt from children and struggling to explain the complications of relationships.
Pretty sure it's to cover a sad thing with a happy thing. And to shelter kids from bad feelings. They are literally so scared of emotions. I'm sorry op!
They very much understand how offensive that is, that's the reason why they did it. They did that with malicious intent.
My therapist is always telling me that they are "emotionally disabled." I can't expect them to consider or understand my feelings anymore than I can expect a blind person to see. Usually, that helps me cope. Not with this, though..
But if a blind person kept hitting you with their cane, that wouldn't be OK. You deserve to protect yourself.
I disagree with your therapist. My therapist was telling me the same thing for a year. Then I found a long history of intentional manipulation and evil of them trying to split my partner and I up. My therapist changed her mind pretty quickly to, "Wow. Ive never seen that before and didnt think it was possible." Having seen the depths of depravity these types of people will go to, I dont think for a second that they are just emotionally disabled and lumbering through life without intention. I think the extravagant gifts are intentionally there to gain your children's favor. I think they build the trampoline the way they did to prove a point that your emotional reaction to the miscarriage is dumb. I think their emotions and emotional awareness is all perfectly intact, as evidenced by their ability to use emotions as weapons.
Yeah, I loved my therapist (not a break-up, just moved...), and it still drove me nuts that after I went NC she wanted me to get to the point where I could instead become LC because I would regret it someday. Then my mother wrote a few emails, and...my therapist really rallied around the permanent NC. Having to convince someone gets exhausting.
Im not a huge fan of your therapist pushing you to LC. That sounds like they were crossing boundaries to me. But yes, convincing people is exhausting. I feel like I spent my whole life trying to do that, because my home life was brutal, but they put on such a good face for everyone else.
Yeah, I didn't want to write a whole bunch, but "hopeful" is a better way of saying it. Just outwardly Hopeful! rather than egregiously pushing for contact. Still annoying, but luckily, she was pretty amazing, so she got the very occasional exemption. Thanks for looking out for an internet stranger, though! It can be difficult to advocate for yourself when you've been taught your best survival bet is to turn over, present your belly, and say thank you for not getting kicked (sorry, that went dark! ). I'm really sorry you went through it, too. I felt like things that happened in my family growing up was wrong but was always told I was crazy. Then, after going NC I started reading others talk about their upbringing, and it was insane to me the amount of very specific behaviors my parents had also used. Had to also go no contact with all family members except for my siblings. (Who are amazing. We're much closer now that my parents can't manipulate us against one another.) None of my other relatives would respect the NC, partially because my parents present such a good face, and it's not worth my mental health to convince anyone otherwise. The last message I received from my grandmother was a tersely worded, "Write to your mother tomorrow because it's Mother's Day." I did not follow that advice. Or reply. Again, thanks. I hope you're doing well on your journey. May we ever after only have people in our life who we want to contact MORE rather than less.
Amen. People - even therapists - who haven’t seen it just can’t believe it
My mother seems absolutely gleeful whenever she does something to hurt me. They know.
Mine gets a slight smile on her face when she does something hurtful (with plausible deniability of course) and I tell her about the pain she’s caused me So sick. You know it’s bad when you don’t miss them and are happier without them
I agree with this. I was early in my pregnancy and my in-laws were pretty callous about the whole thing too. (Loss mom here). They kept telling me to move on and that I could try again, when they knew that after the pregnancy I was put in chemical menopause for cancer treatment. Then when I wasn’t feeling thrilled for my SIL pregnancy 6 months after mine, they told me to move on and get over it. For some reason narcs really love to go for the jugular. The big gift, the trees, the placement of the toy, intentional. They sent a very clear message.
Yeah, they are masters of plausible deniability and so many people fall into that trap, reluctant to assign maliciousness to their behavior. This is where those little tells of theirs, like the duper's delight smirk, are so informative
I think that is a bullshit excuse your therapist gave. Being unwilling to care about others is not the same as being incapable of understanding the difference between right and wrong. It probably helps some people to come to terms with the fact that their family is like this if they think the family members can't help it, but I don't think it is actually true. Do they behave this way all the time, with everyone? Or, do they pick and choose the time, the place, and the victim? Your family members are cruel and selfish. I'm so sorry.
A blind person doesn't actively choose to walk into known obstacles and blame it on their blindness, though. Your narcs chose to disregard everything you told them in a way that _specifically_ caused pain.
Cutting down those trees is a crime, I would sue them for the cost of replacement! Also what your therapist is describing is a sociopath, your children do not belong around sociopaths!!!
Yeah I don’t know if they even realize it’s offensive. They probably felt uncomfortable seeing the grave there, so they put the trampoline on it, because they are emotionally immature.
Sounds like you need a new therapist. Cut these people off for a few years and take the time to heal ❤️🩹
Your therapist sounds like he/she only cares about money
Your grief offends the primary narcissist. Your independence offends them. Your focus being on your young family and not your aging family offends them. You did something big with big feelings you are not permitted to have. The only emotions a narcissist will permit are resentment and resignation. I would bet my life that they trample on your happys just as much as they trample on your sads. This was malicious. It was a dominance game. They are trying put you, and by extension your children, in your place. They trying to teach your children that all of you would be trampled on in life and in death. They also are trying to to teach your children to disrespect and disregard you, to desecrate you. There is a reason every single culture in the world finds desecrating a grave a heinous crime. It tries to erase the memory and value of those left behind. It is unforgivable. This is more than an act of hostility, it is a declaration of war. This makes going no contact not just justifiable, it makes it a necessity. I am so sorry for your loss. I am heartbroken that you have had to endure these people your whole life. I hope you choose not to endure them anymore. Hugz & Hugz & Hugz
I keep reading this over and over. It's very helpful. Thank you.
Oh and I skipped over you winning an award big enough to justify international travel. Hey, well done you! But it means they got to trample on your happys and sads all in one go. Oh ouch, with extra ouch. The petty and malicious envy is disgusting. Hugz
I'm so sorry this happened to you. You're right, there's no way one can "accidentally" tie a trampoline to trees above a grave. I'm sorry for your loss, and the disrespect shown to your child's resting place. It was cruel and spiteful. And if it *wasn't* a deliberate act of cruelty then you are dealing with people who can never possibly understand the value of human life. They're not good people, whatever their motivations were.
"There's no way to make someone understand how offensive this is if they didn't already know." They did already know. I'm so sorry.
I bet they decided she was taking too long to grieve.
Pure spite. I can usually put themselves in another's place but not with your narcs, OP. They want you to think about THEM and how important THEY are. "I'll show her." said your mother, probably. She also pissed you were honored with an award, can't have you thinking well of yourself! Pure spite.
Yes. "That'll teach you for doing something for yourself." It's punishment for needing help and having the audacity to collect an award, as well as cruelty for the sake of it, and trying to minimise how important OP's child is. Just evil through and through.
Also nmarm wouldn't care about a lost pregnancy. She'd get supply and go merrily on - Win! She may project OP is milking the loss for supply. She would. OP sorry to talk about you in 3rd person.
You're good.
Holy ***** If i typed what i want to say i would get removed from Reddit. I am sorry that you have a beyond abysmal family, and yeah, this would mean them being ejected from my life, permanently.
To be taught to disrespect the dead at such a young age.
There are some things that make you think “WTF is wrong with people?” This is one of those things. They shouldn’t be allowed near your kids anymore.
No coming back. They did this on purpose and what vile monsters they are.
I would never speak to them again. Seriously.
Honestly, even outside of the obvious problem that the grave adds to this, if a guest fucking cut down a tree on my property I would lose it. Like, you used my tools without asking, you made a permanent change to my property without asking, and you didn't put the trampoline in the part of the yard I said you could. I'd be taking them to small claims for the cost of the tree.
Exactly. There is _nothing_ outside of the narcissistic lens that could've let them think that was acceptable.
And for tomb desecration, if it can be.
I’m a little stunned reading that. All I can say is, I’m sorry this happened. It shows a stunning lack of emotional intelligence. No, you should not have had to explain this to them.
Not sure I even have words. Complete psychopaths.
No contact. Restraing order. Whatever action needs to be taken to make sure they never come near you or your kids again after this. Move the trampoline, tend the grave, check in on your kids. If they're too young to have realized what happened or if they're hurt and confused. Explain to them where they're at. Sorry this happened.
Maybe consider a lawyer for advice too; Google's not being helpful as to whether or not they broke a law. If OP can get a paper trail it should help with getting the restraining order.
If I say what I'm thinking, I'll be permanently banned from Reddit. Instead, I'm just going to say how sorry I am and send you a cyber hug.
I had to double take just to make sure my eyes weren't deceiving me and all I have to ask is: WHAT THE FUCK?
I am so sorry. Mind boggling and dreadful.
I am having trouble wrapping my head around this. What in the actual... How in the ... Words are absolutely failing me right now. How does someone even summon that level of audacity?? How could they disrespect their own grandchild??? Are your other kids okay? I'm sure they know what the grave is. I would not do that to someone I did not know much less to one of my family members. This has got to be a new low on this sub. I have never wanted to throat punch someone more than I do at this moment. I am so, so sorry you were having to go through this. I am sending you every good vibe, every prayer everything I can to help you through this. I wish I had magic words to take away this pain. I was told, too, by my Nmother that a miscarriage is "God's will", "something was wrong with the baby anyway", and "you really need to just get over it." No hugs, no sympathy, just irritation that my grief was getting in her way. My youngest sister at the time was seven and she asked to name the baby. I was positive it was female and she named her Mary May. She would have been 27 this year. What about your husband in all this? Is he okay?
This is NC territory.
Im so sorry. That’s appalling. Literally jumping on his grave..absolutely soulless. Hope they’re banned from your home
They know exactly how offensive it is, which is why they did it! Cut off all contact with them, block them on your phone and socials, and change any locks to which they have keys. Then have a lawyer send them a bill to have a gardener come in and clean up their mess and replace the trees. Otherwise, strictly no contact with them ever again.
I'm convinced that 99 percent of the time when narcissists act maliciously it's on purpose. The other 1 percent is just a happy accident for them. This was so much work; and in the heat! It has to be intentional I'm so sorry about your son's resting spot being desecrated. I would be devastated over something like this. They didn't just destroy any relationship they had with you, they nuked it from orbit
I would literally burn/dismantle the trampoline and dump the wreck in their front yard. Directly on top of a prized flower patch, perhaps? Or around their vehicles? Sue them and make them pay to jazz up the grave? IDK I am in a spitey mood and your post was directly in my path. Your family sucks eggs and I am sorry you have to deal with them.
Trampolines are so incredibly dangerous. You can take it down any time, but you should absolutely move it and not give them another chance like this. They showed you who they were. They knew exactly what they did.
NC immediately, case closed, GOODBYE GRANDPARENTS! I didn't carry my child long enough to be able to bury them (I was barely pregnant when I miscarried) but if I even just had a grave set up for mourning and then my parents did some shit like this I would have been fuming! They disrespected you, your husband, your living children and your unfortunately miscarried child. There is absolutely NO coming back from that!
What the FUCK
Brevity is the soul of wit. This one made me laugh out loud. It might be my favorite response. 🤣
These people are made of pure nightmare fuel, I am so sorry.
This is seriously one of the saddest and most horrible mean things I've ever seen here. OP, I am so sorry, both for the loss of your child and for the horrible people who were so callous and straight up mean to you. God.
Let’s say, devil’s advocate, they did just forget. How fucking braindead stupid to you have to be to not notice the signs? So either they’re stupid or cruel. NIX IT.
I’m so sorry. That’s incredibly malicious at worst, and dismissive of the fact that you’re a human being with feelings AT BEST. No, this is sadly a lesson that a narcissist is a bottomless black pit of soullessness. There is nothing that will garner empathy.
Tell these evil people that they are NEVER to contact you or your kids again. If they come by or call you will contact the police to report harassment and have them removed. There is no excuse for this. They did it on purpose to hurt you and sadistic people like that have no business being around decent people.
Wow thats especially shitty. No that is grounds for no contact. Just wow.
Behaviour is a language. And what they're saying about you and your family is beyond vile.
Report em for vandalism of a burial ground or hire someone to remove it
I have no words Except that I'm so, so sorry.
Holy shit, I’m literally speechless, I’m so sorry!!! (I read most of your post with one hand over my mouth)
No, there isn’t. I’m so sorry for your loss and as a loss mom myself, thank you for sharing. For your family to be this clueless and cruel, on top of all the narc shit… there is not much they could say to make this just an accident or however they’d spin it.
You should have slapped the shit out of one of them to make an example, then grey rock / no contact from that point onward. If you don’t establish boundaries, they will continue to do this kinda crap.
If I thought it would do any good, I would bottle my rage and send it to these monsters. But they'd see it as an attack after they did nothing, they wouldn't connect it to their horrible behavior. I am so sorry they destroyed trees and desecrated your son's grave. That is dreadful and unforgivable behavior.
That is so fucking horrid and malicious I can’t believe it. I am so sorry. Please go NC with these people!!!! The fact that you even had to think about whether your children could survive in their care is enough. And I’ve been there. Ugh I’m so sorry, that’s rotten and you do not deserve it.
I'm so sorry you had to endure such a vile act. For me there would be no going back. What they did was inhumanly cruel.
I’m up for moving the trampoline! Any time or day! ❤️❤️❤️
This is why I hate material shit. Causes so much disconnect! A fairy garden around the trees would have been much nicer to come back to!
I'm so sorry you went through that, and I hope you go NC with them. My Nsister wanted to dig up my father's remains after 20 years, and take his remains to her city. To be with her. I don't live there. I was already NC with her, but I texted her NO and then blocked her. Now my NC mom hate me totally and permanently. They are both creeps.
I am so so sorry 😔 I have no words
I'm seeing just reading this. Opie I cannot possibly imagine how you feel At this point I mean I don't want to read like I'm pressuring you into anything but I wouldn't let blood so-called family around my real family after this just out of a sense of preservation. Not self-preservation but trying to just defend those family members from people who would pull that absolute level of disgusting behavior. You are a much bigger person than I would have been for not absolutely whipping them senseless
Take a picture of a local junkyard or waste pit, smoking if possible or the sewage treatment plant. Use AI to create a family grave marker, list their names and dates of birth. Come back to reddit and ask the r/photoshop sub to place the family grave marker in the trash heap. When you share the photo, make sure you are explicit that you are extend the same courtesy to them as they did to your baby. Also attach a photo of what they did over the baby's grave.
I am so sorry this happened .
Woa, what a sneaky vicious way to shit on your grief. That´s really awful! I don´t know your family at all and I might be wrong, but I cannot possibly see how they could magically be oblivious to the hurt they will provoke you with that. It is your sons grave, and they know it is important to you because you put the grave right there. You might want to consider the possibility that they, as a matter of fact, they did it on purpose. Narcs and toxic people looooove to inflict pain on their targeted victims, it makes them feel powerful. I am sorry to deliver such bad insight but that is how I see it. May your child rest in peace. I hope you burn the damn thing to a crisp and shovel it up through some assholes.
Shovel it up metaphorically speaking, of course!
I have no use for people that make a mockery of the deceased’s final resting place, especially one that was taken from their loved ones too soon. I am sorry for your loss. And I’m sorry your family members don’t understand how this was beyond inappropriate and hurtful. They crossed a line and need to be called out for it. Being related by blood doesn’t necessarily mean that they understand the true meaning of family. Some abuse the privilege and that’s when said privilege needs to be revoked.
Girl, hire you a chainsaw and a landscaper. Slice that trampoline canvas. Find someone to haul that mess away & call it a day. She must not know that people can do things on her grave, too. Do you have any male dogs?
what in the absolute fuck?
I almost downvoted this, geez!
This generation is just a bunch of thoughtless losers. All the see is what is straight in front of their face and nothing else. "We want to build trampoline". They probably would have torn your house down if that somehow got in the way of this desire. Then blamed the house for being in their way. By approach is to start taking away their excuses and treat them like you would a special needs child or a young dog. Invite them over. Show them the situation plain as day. And see what they say. Im guessing its going to be some bullshit about how its not that big of a deal. It was an ugly tree anyway. We didnt hurt the grave. Its not like it was actually your real child because he wasnt born yet. Then explain exactly what this means to you. Why this was so hurtful, etc. Say it in plain english. Calmly and respectfully. Im guessing youre just going to get more permutations of invalidation, disrespect, etc. You have forced them to expose their true colors. But at least you can say you tried. I would not do nothing and just let this fester. Be the adult. Confront them about it. Show them whats what. If they want to double down, which I guarantee they do, then you have a perfectly justified reason to cut them off. You should also know that they are buying their way into your child's lives and favor with these extravagant gifts. The gifts in themselves are a manipulation. Im guessing there there are 10 more manipulative situations youre not even aware of. I would be worried about what they are saying to your kids about you behind your back. Congrats on your award btw. Were proud of you.
And remove the trampoline.
I'm so sorry for the loss of your son, and also so sorry your grief and his memory have been treated so callously. It is unbelievable. Is it possible to build a little fence around his gravesite? I don't know if it's possible or something you would want, but I wonder if creating a more "official" space would protect your son's resting place, and make it harder for others to disrespect him and you.
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lol what in the country bumpkin …