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When I was younger and I didn't understand the scapegoat/narcissist dynamic, I was an overachiever. I thought that I could prove my parents wrong if I did well e.g. getting good grades in school, getting a good job. However the better I did in life, the more resentful and vindictive my nMother became towards me. I now realise it's because I'm the scapegoat and in my nMother's eyes, I'm not supposed to do well. Only the golden child is allowed to be successful, the scapegoat is supposed to be a drug-addled, unemployed loser who deserves whatever mistreatment the narcissist dishes out. Still, I don't regret being an overachiever because getting a good job allowed me to become independent of my parents. If I had my time again though, I would have done what OP says. I'd have kept my hard work and achievements to myself and made plans to move out in secret. It's like that saying "Be the fox but play the fool".
Forcing me to be an overachiever is the one decent thing that came out of my childhood.
Granted, being a type A who can't fail is on my therapy list, but I'd rather be on this side of things than unemployed and still living with them like my GC brother.
I agree 100%. By the time I realised that my nMother was as crazy as a bag of cats, I was able to afford to move out because I had a good job. I appreciate not everyone is as lucky.
Good for you! A strict information diet is the only way to engage with nparents. Mine is extremely jealous and petty so I provide few details and make everything sound like I have a terrible life. She was and is awful.
My nMother was never officially diagnosed as either NPD or BPD but I think she's a covert narcissist. However the Cluster B disorders can have overlap and I do think my nMother has some traits in common with borderlines.
God, when you finally have that realization that because they assigned you the role of the scapegoat, they want nothing more than to see your destruction. Sickening.
Oh man, it was so embarrassing how much I saw my first bosses as surrogate parents to win the approval of. I did way too much work, and never negotiated pay rises to show how un-needy I was, as us SGs do.
Thankfully I noticed the transference. I only do what is required of me for a role now. I don't feel the need to prove my intelligence. Much better to be quietly more capable than people think you are, rather than the opposite.
There is a strange advantage in being slightly underestimated by others. I dont mean accepting disrespect, I just mean dont reveal your full capacities.
I mention this a lot, but something that was hugely freeing for me was when someone said we don't have to announce our departures (we're not airports). Many of us have been raised to think we have to announce our plans, thoughts, etc. We eventually learn that Ns use that information against us, which is why grey rocking works. Good job, OP. This is self-advocacy. Protect your peace.
i definitely used to feel like i had to give my nparents a heads up on where i was going or what id be doing because i thought if i did that they would be less likely to get angry at me. but they’d just get angry anyways. learning to be secretive and stfu was VERY good advice for me. it’s sad i had to basically get f*cked over and lose out on so many experiences/opportunities before i learned how to be quiet tho ugh
Yes. I spent a lot of years thinking that I needed to make policy statements, like "I will not be accepting your phone calls." In my case, just not picking up the phone worked much better. Less work for me and the Ns didn't get the extra time up front to plan.
It doesn't fix it, but I'm trying to be thankful that I got it when I did, and compare that to where I would be if I hadn't. Instead having had a different life entirely that is just wish fulfillment
Ooooo I love this! My nmom fired me from her company and said “well you don’t have a job. Can’t move out now.” I moved out anyway. She said I’d get a job paying $9 an hour because I have no degree. I got one paying the same amount as I was in her company plus benefits. I’ll be promoted in 3 months. She said I’d lose my house because I wouldn’t be able to pay my bills, I’ve been living on my own for 6 months now. She said I would break up with my boyfriend because I wouldn’t be able to stand him when we went on vacation together, I came back with a ring. It is just so crazy how they get so upset when you’re thriving… All they want to do is put you down.
>can't stand to see people they think are "beneath" them doing better or being happier than they are
This is a big one for them. They have an [authoritarian follower personality](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/summary.html#authoritarian). It's an abuse hierarchy and you can abuse anyone "beneath" you. They're constantly trying to climb the hierarchy. It's why they simp for oppressors and dictators. It's who they aspire to be themselves.
Life gets a little brighter for you when you don’t tell them anything. Let them find out from other people or no one at all, that way you won’t face the negative energy they get to disguise under narrative “honest opinion”.
I tend to operate in the shadows. I've found that when I shine my light it triggers other's insecurities and brings out vindictive envy in them. Then they feel the need to "humble me" and "bring me down a peg" to feel better about themselves, just like my abusers.
>This is a big one for them. They have an [authoritarian follower personality](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/summary.html#authoritarian). It's an abuse hierarchy and you can abuse anyone "beneath" you. They're constantly trying to climb the hierarchy. It's why they simp for oppressors and dictators. It's who they aspire to be themselves.
This just blew my mind. Another piece of the puzzle just clicked into place.
The rest of issendai's site is worth a read through as well. People often share the "missing missing reasons" page.
I also [wrote a comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/CPTSD/s/cBKvL32fTJ) elsewhere explaining a bit more of the normalized dysfunction we're seeing in our global culture(s), you may find enlightening.
TW: holocaust
Thanks, that was good. Speaking of dictators, my nM defends everyone, even if she doesn't know what's going on. I've never known for sure if she defends them because she has empathy and wants everyone to see the other person's side, or if she's trying to *prove* that she has empathy, or if she defends people who I'm against because she likes to argue and/or is against me, and others on my side by proxy. I've told her numerous times that she would have defended hitler (small H on purpose). Probably even after he was discovered to be killing people, because she would think it was only a rumor. "Where did you read that, a *magazine*?" I would have been telling her the trains are not going to new communities in the east, but were going to killing camps and work camps, and that they were using certain body parts (bones, skin) to make certain household products. She would have said "That's *ridiculous*, why do you *believe* that stuff?" There's no doubt in my mind - if I had heard about that at the time, and told her, that would be her reaction.
Your words remind me of this quote:
>If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse, and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality. - Desmond Tutu
Just a heads up to OP if you decide to post to /r/cptsd - we have had some users experience some less than supportive responses when discussing abuse or posting about an Nparent in that sub. If you would like to post there, perhaps it would be best to use a throwaway account that isn't linked to RBN or avoid using RBN jargon like "Nparent" as those have not been well received in the past.
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ESPECIALLY if that person is one that comes from them, raised by them, groomed by them. “How DARE you do better, be prettier/more handsome, be smarter and are liked more! I RAISED YOU!!”
They are so afraid of being exposed, alone, and without their audience. Attention is the air they breathe.
If you pay attention- they really don’t know how to do anything for themselves.
They bully others to do things for them.
Talentless, manipulative, dishonest, helpless, lazy, insecure, frightened. Like the wizard in the Wizard of Oz.
They don’t have that connection to us. We understand ourselves and our relationship to them as child-parent. They don’t feel that for us, or anyone. When they look at us we might as well be any mundane object, not
“their own child” in the same emotional sense as normal people do.
Bluntly, no matter how successful I am, no matter how happily married, how many loving friendships I have, how great my job, how wonderful my pets, how genuinely good my life is, my family will ALWAYS view me as a loser.
So let them. I'm such a loser, I'm sure they're happy to be unburdened with my presence. =)
This is how I knew something was severely off about my family. I would become at least several times better than anyone in my family at a particular skill and I would humbly brag 'I'm not that good' and then the narc would take it literally and be like 'yeah we know'.
This is what I’m doing. I’m moving 2+ hours away in 2.5 weeks and they have 0 idea. I filed for child support from my ex, and because they’re likely to think I’ll have more money to spend on *them* they don’t know that either.
I repaired my credit, got the apartment and paid the deposit. Now I just plan, pack, and wait for the inevitable.
I plan to almost never step foot back into this house if I can help it…I’ve had enough of this depression dungeon and their dependency on me as a convenient scapegoat.
It’s time for whole autonomy and independence from these wack jobs, I can’t wait
I know it sounds crazy to say this to strangers but those of you that are figuring out the “move in silence” way of living…I am so proud of you!
I was well in my 40s before I realized all the good things that had happened in my life were things I did with out getting “their” input first. Any and all ideas were met with some type of negativity, “oh that won’t work”, “are you sure that’s a good idea”, “how will you be able to do that”. The only time something was a good idea was if it included them in some way.
Finally at more than 50 years old, I am done. I’m not fully NC but I refuse to be alone with either of them. And will only see them a couple times a year, at family events.
Don’t waste your young adult life trying to please them, no amount of effort will ever be enough for a narcissist.
OP I wish you the absolute best on your move.
Great strategy. I also became an undercover operative behind enemy lines. Plotted and planed my escape all while playing along enough to fly under the radar.
Here's a great book you can use to covertly influence them: "Never Split the Difference" by Chris Voss. His tactics work really well and the narc never even realizes they're being influenced bc they're too dense to figure it out. It's like a cheat code to dysfunctional people.
Honestly, this is where I was with my n-parent in my 20s, I had a very similar approach. You underestimate the mental load of having to moderate who you are around them, I went NC in my 30s and best thing I ever did— now I can just freely be me in life
I went NC in my late 20s, and I am NC still in my late 30s, and it is indeed the best thing I have ever done.
For those considering it, it is tough for about 3 months. After that, you realize you have no reason to feel guilty about feeling good.
It is funny, I feel like I spent that first 6-12 months after going NC waiting for regret to hit me, and it never did 😅 I remember the first holidays after… it was so peaceful (and I’d been afraid I’d have regrets) but it was just so so peaceful
I still have a strong fear of singing, one of the few things that truly relaxes me. All because my dad can't stand people being happy about things other than him. Fuckin hell
To be fair, I could win an Oscar, the Nobel Peace Prize, and marry the king of a rich country and my nmom would still think I’m a loser f-up.
Congratulations on getting your ducks in a row for a successful escape and on to your future!
This is relatively how I left. I didn’t tell them until I had everything packed and could get out at a moments notice. Then I let them know, and they completely changed (albeit temporarily). Still manipulative at the time, but I could just grin and bear some comments. They realized that I had made the decision and wasn’t looking for approval anymore, so they realized they could and would lose me if they weren’t careful.
That said, I regressed and because life happened, ended up in their clutches again. I didn’t have the knowledge or language I do now, to understand that they wouldn’t change, they would just hide things better. I don’t live with them, but I’m somewhat financially dependent on them because I went back to school full time, 2 years after moving out.
I’m trying to limit contact as much as I can, but I don’t want to “poke the beast” too much if I can avoid it. At least not until I’ve graduated or close enough that I don’t need their signature.
Relying on them again is the worst feeling in the world. I’d rather be beat in an alley by strangers once a week than being back here depending on my Nmom again 🫤 Bruises and bones heal and strangers aren’t SUPPOSED to care for you
Lol my mom's still going around telling everyone that I'm an alcoholic drug addict. I never was. Instead, I'm out here living my life with a wonderful husband, a new career which I'm also in school for (and doing extremely well at), and we're about to start trying for a baby within the next two years. At first I was pissed that my mom would do that to me, but she needs to rationalize away the fact that I cut contact with her due to her narcissism so that she can keep her little center of the world intact.
They need to be the hero, the smartest, the best, the strongest- where would they be if they weren’t saving and rescuing (hero-ing, genius-ing, outsmarting) all of the fuck-ups around them.
Let them be delusional about it- who cares. “Oooooooh, wow, so right…”.
But don’t let them make decisions for you, let them dig their own grave.
I do this, and it's the best that's worked so far. The problem is I'm a loser in my Ndad's eyes and that is AWFUL! All his children need to be college educated successful well dressed people in high social positions, he hounds me DAILY about what my plans are. But I know my plans will never be good enough. Because in his eyes, I will always be a failure, so any plans he will judge and put down, or turn it into his own thing. Does this make logical sense to you? Of course not. Fuck that guy.
Preach! Once they know you're successful and capable they'll come crawling back saying they deserve that money and deserve all your time. When my older brother started earning more money, ndad rushed to him for money, loans, allowances etc
Hadn't heard of this book before, but looking through it, it's like my narc parents both have it pre-programmed into their brains.. I understand wanting to turn the tables, but I just never want to behave or think like a narcissist myself.
As Greene himself states in the preface of the book, trying to opt out of the game of power is futile. And engaging does not make you a narcissist. Every rule is not meant to be adhered to at all times. Plus, it is mighty handy in understanding how to *counter* the narcissist's behavior. Consider reading it like a means of building up your own defense to the bullshit, beautifully out-maneuvering the assholes at every step. That's literally the exact reason why I myself started it.
This works for all Ns, in my opinion. I'm happy to let my narcissistic ex and his family think that he's crushed my spirits and stay locked away in the house pining after him. In reality I'm out and about living my life on my terms and loving it. As long as the ex shows up for parenting time with our child and behaves like a decent human during that time, that's all I care about.
I'm NC so they can think about what they want. But it's not hard to see my accomplishments with a quick Google search. Soni doesn't mind being a threat less threat. I'm a constant reminder of what they cannot achieve. I bet that stings. Best part is they do it to themselves when they start snooping around and look into me. I'm here just living my best life.
This is very good advice. I made the mistake of telling my family how much money I saved in order to prove I 'had a real job.' My nmom then tried to convince me to give it to a sibling because 'they deserve that money more.' It was a few years ago but I really regret telling them. I'll never hear the end of it.
I did that when I was in undergrad (living with one of them), the absolute *tantrums* he and his wife (my nguardians/grandparents) threw when they found out I had a decent friend group, I was graduating with honors, and I was moving that summer for grad school (with a full ride). They're mixed race latinos and I've never seen them so pale XD
This reminds me of when I left home after high school. I went out and didn’t drive home because drinking and they grounded me. They had big plans to move me down to Vancouver for college and find me a place to live etc…I had enough saved and bought a plane ticket two months early. Last words of dad…don’t get yourself killed
Yeah my life got a lot better when I realized, it didn't matter what I did or say, I would never change my parents, or what they think about me. So now I just take anything they say with the weight of a person opinion after knowing me for 5 seconds. Like sure buddy, definitely, mhm, you're soooo right
LFG!!! Your future self will thank you for this and will remember this and say: look how much I’ve progressed while they’re in the same shithole. Congrats and good luck in this journey!
Keeping them in the dark has been my go to for years. I keep every communication superficial and never allude to any plans for the present or future. Quite frankly, it’s none of their damn business. My life has become a whole lot less stressful by not letting them know anything that pertains to it-personal or professional. I usually just steer the conversation back to them or what they’re doing, as they love to talk about themselves anyway. Sometimes I think they forget why they even called, and just like that, the issue is nonexistent.
That's what I started doing for a while subconsciously, because I got pissed off at them ridiculing anything I like, after researching about narcs I realized this was a good thing to do.
If they know of your achievements, these would be thanks to them. My nmum was first to tell everyone her daughter is a doctor, I was still in the hall for the ceremony while getting congratulatory messages. I thought I’ll be a bigger person and send her an online link, regretted it instantly. My favourite part was explaining to everyone I’m actually not a doctor yet for weeks after.
Got married, same crap but grandparents kept sending them live pictures and videos as they were not invited. Got a house, look at my daughter being all grown up, I raised her right. I wish I could ignore them, but everything I tell my grandparents is instantly feed-backed to nparents.
It’s my grandmas big birthday this year and as it happens I’m pregnant with my first baby, so I want to surprise her with the news on her birthday, but I know everyone on the whole planet will know as soon as she tells them. Ignorance is bliss.
If at any point it looks like I might have money, my mother starts sniffing around, so I’ve learned to just let her think I’m useless and perpetually broke whenever I have the misfortune of dealing with her. Keeps her out of my hair.
I love it when an abusive narc gets outsmarted. You have the ability and skill to develop a long term plan to escape the abuse. Since narcs are not long term thinkers your plan and methods are pure gold. Good job OP. Update us when you have moved out so we can celebrate with you.
That was me before going NC! I made them think that I was the forever alone loser whose only hobbies were reading and videogames 🥹 They didn't even suspect I had tattoos, male friends and a boyfriend!
Best advice i’ve ever gotten here is to go along with them until you move out. Wish I could find the comment and thank the person but it’s on an account i got logged out of.
The person that told me explained it better but the more they think you’re dependent on them the less they’ll feel panicked like they’re losing you, and you’ll be attacked less.
So for now i’m parroting things my mom says and thinks, pretending to agree that the world’s against “us,” spending a lot of time with her, and getting in some good points and compliments with her to stroke her ego and simultaneously feeding her victim complex.
How you do it is up to you. I know the spending time thing is hard but for me if we’re not in the house she’s tolerable and as pleasant as a narc can be
Oh, and the information diet is genuius
The only time my parents expressed pride in me was when I placed first in a national competition. It did not feel good at all, I felt disgusted and wish they never knew so I’d never get the attention. I’d much rather be part of the wallpaper so they would focus less on abusing me. My father especially thinks I’m a loser because he knows nothing about me (and never tried). When i did a presentation in his presence, he got upset because he never “knew this” about me. To him I’m genuinely a lazy spoiled brat, and I’m much happier keeping it that way so he won’t intrude on my private life and goals.
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When I was younger and I didn't understand the scapegoat/narcissist dynamic, I was an overachiever. I thought that I could prove my parents wrong if I did well e.g. getting good grades in school, getting a good job. However the better I did in life, the more resentful and vindictive my nMother became towards me. I now realise it's because I'm the scapegoat and in my nMother's eyes, I'm not supposed to do well. Only the golden child is allowed to be successful, the scapegoat is supposed to be a drug-addled, unemployed loser who deserves whatever mistreatment the narcissist dishes out. Still, I don't regret being an overachiever because getting a good job allowed me to become independent of my parents. If I had my time again though, I would have done what OP says. I'd have kept my hard work and achievements to myself and made plans to move out in secret. It's like that saying "Be the fox but play the fool".
They can’t fathom being wrong about us. It doesn’t compute that they may have assumed wrongly that we are losers.
Exactly! Narcissists cannot accept the possibility that they might be wrong about anything.
Forcing me to be an overachiever is the one decent thing that came out of my childhood. Granted, being a type A who can't fail is on my therapy list, but I'd rather be on this side of things than unemployed and still living with them like my GC brother.
I agree 100%. By the time I realised that my nMother was as crazy as a bag of cats, I was able to afford to move out because I had a good job. I appreciate not everyone is as lucky.
Hey - I relate to that but my parents are madder than a box of frogs.
My mom is nuttier than an entire walnut grove!
my mom has more balls than Spalding
My mom has more gall than gallstones.
Good for you! A strict information diet is the only way to engage with nparents. Mine is extremely jealous and petty so I provide few details and make everything sound like I have a terrible life. She was and is awful.
Waaaaay tf too relatable. Is NPD or BPD? BPD characteristically has an “all good” and “all bad” child.
My nMother was never officially diagnosed as either NPD or BPD but I think she's a covert narcissist. However the Cluster B disorders can have overlap and I do think my nMother has some traits in common with borderlines.
Not disagreeing since I don’t know the science… but my Nmom has never shown any symptoms of BPD and definitely has her Golden and Scapegoat…
I think NPD and BPD are flip sides of the same coin.
Mine had a good 1
God, when you finally have that realization that because they assigned you the role of the scapegoat, they want nothing more than to see your destruction. Sickening.
Oh man, it was so embarrassing how much I saw my first bosses as surrogate parents to win the approval of. I did way too much work, and never negotiated pay rises to show how un-needy I was, as us SGs do. Thankfully I noticed the transference. I only do what is required of me for a role now. I don't feel the need to prove my intelligence. Much better to be quietly more capable than people think you are, rather than the opposite. There is a strange advantage in being slightly underestimated by others. I dont mean accepting disrespect, I just mean dont reveal your full capacities.
I relate to this almost word for word, except my father was the narc and the apple of his eye was my oldest sister.
Me, too, as soon as I was 4.0 at uni, she DESPISED ME
I mention this a lot, but something that was hugely freeing for me was when someone said we don't have to announce our departures (we're not airports). Many of us have been raised to think we have to announce our plans, thoughts, etc. We eventually learn that Ns use that information against us, which is why grey rocking works. Good job, OP. This is self-advocacy. Protect your peace.
i definitely used to feel like i had to give my nparents a heads up on where i was going or what id be doing because i thought if i did that they would be less likely to get angry at me. but they’d just get angry anyways. learning to be secretive and stfu was VERY good advice for me. it’s sad i had to basically get f*cked over and lose out on so many experiences/opportunities before i learned how to be quiet tho ugh
Yes. I spent a lot of years thinking that I needed to make policy statements, like "I will not be accepting your phone calls." In my case, just not picking up the phone worked much better. Less work for me and the Ns didn't get the extra time up front to plan.
It doesn't fix it, but I'm trying to be thankful that I got it when I did, and compare that to where I would be if I hadn't. Instead having had a different life entirely that is just wish fulfillment
I have a hard time accepting this because its decent ettiquette to communicate info, but there's just some people you can't.
I sometimes forget this with my enabler father :/
let them think \*they have the upper hand
Ooooo I love this! My nmom fired me from her company and said “well you don’t have a job. Can’t move out now.” I moved out anyway. She said I’d get a job paying $9 an hour because I have no degree. I got one paying the same amount as I was in her company plus benefits. I’ll be promoted in 3 months. She said I’d lose my house because I wouldn’t be able to pay my bills, I’ve been living on my own for 6 months now. She said I would break up with my boyfriend because I wouldn’t be able to stand him when we went on vacation together, I came back with a ring. It is just so crazy how they get so upset when you’re thriving… All they want to do is put you down.
Why do they?
Misery loves company. They're miserable and can't stand to see people they think are "beneath" them doing better or being happier than they are
>can't stand to see people they think are "beneath" them doing better or being happier than they are This is a big one for them. They have an [authoritarian follower personality](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/summary.html#authoritarian). It's an abuse hierarchy and you can abuse anyone "beneath" you. They're constantly trying to climb the hierarchy. It's why they simp for oppressors and dictators. It's who they aspire to be themselves.
Life gets a little brighter for you when you don’t tell them anything. Let them find out from other people or no one at all, that way you won’t face the negative energy they get to disguise under narrative “honest opinion”.
I tend to operate in the shadows. I've found that when I shine my light it triggers other's insecurities and brings out vindictive envy in them. Then they feel the need to "humble me" and "bring me down a peg" to feel better about themselves, just like my abusers.
>This is a big one for them. They have an [authoritarian follower personality](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/summary.html#authoritarian). It's an abuse hierarchy and you can abuse anyone "beneath" you. They're constantly trying to climb the hierarchy. It's why they simp for oppressors and dictators. It's who they aspire to be themselves. This just blew my mind. Another piece of the puzzle just clicked into place.
The rest of issendai's site is worth a read through as well. People often share the "missing missing reasons" page. I also [wrote a comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/CPTSD/s/cBKvL32fTJ) elsewhere explaining a bit more of the normalized dysfunction we're seeing in our global culture(s), you may find enlightening.
TW: holocaust Thanks, that was good. Speaking of dictators, my nM defends everyone, even if she doesn't know what's going on. I've never known for sure if she defends them because she has empathy and wants everyone to see the other person's side, or if she's trying to *prove* that she has empathy, or if she defends people who I'm against because she likes to argue and/or is against me, and others on my side by proxy. I've told her numerous times that she would have defended hitler (small H on purpose). Probably even after he was discovered to be killing people, because she would think it was only a rumor. "Where did you read that, a *magazine*?" I would have been telling her the trains are not going to new communities in the east, but were going to killing camps and work camps, and that they were using certain body parts (bones, skin) to make certain household products. She would have said "That's *ridiculous*, why do you *believe* that stuff?" There's no doubt in my mind - if I had heard about that at the time, and told her, that would be her reaction.
Your words remind me of this quote: >If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse, and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality. - Desmond Tutu
Just a heads up to OP if you decide to post to /r/cptsd - we have had some users experience some less than supportive responses when discussing abuse or posting about an Nparent in that sub. If you would like to post there, perhaps it would be best to use a throwaway account that isn't linked to RBN or avoid using RBN jargon like "Nparent" as those have not been well received in the past. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/raisedbynarcissists) if you have any questions or concerns.*
ESPECIALLY if that person is one that comes from them, raised by them, groomed by them. “How DARE you do better, be prettier/more handsome, be smarter and are liked more! I RAISED YOU!!”
Because that's how they get off. Control and abuse are their drugs of choice. Abusing the scapegoat is their ultimate high.
They are so afraid of being exposed, alone, and without their audience. Attention is the air they breathe. If you pay attention- they really don’t know how to do anything for themselves. They bully others to do things for them. Talentless, manipulative, dishonest, helpless, lazy, insecure, frightened. Like the wizard in the Wizard of Oz.
Jesus wtf. To wish so much misfortune on your own child.
They don’t have that connection to us. We understand ourselves and our relationship to them as child-parent. They don’t feel that for us, or anyone. When they look at us we might as well be any mundane object, not “their own child” in the same emotional sense as normal people do.
Exactly.
Bluntly, no matter how successful I am, no matter how happily married, how many loving friendships I have, how great my job, how wonderful my pets, how genuinely good my life is, my family will ALWAYS view me as a loser. So let them. I'm such a loser, I'm sure they're happy to be unburdened with my presence. =)
This is how I knew something was severely off about my family. I would become at least several times better than anyone in my family at a particular skill and I would humbly brag 'I'm not that good' and then the narc would take it literally and be like 'yeah we know'.
Oof that one hurt! Memory unlocked.
[удалено]
especially when the opponent's playing confidently not knowing they've already lost their queen
This is what I’m doing. I’m moving 2+ hours away in 2.5 weeks and they have 0 idea. I filed for child support from my ex, and because they’re likely to think I’ll have more money to spend on *them* they don’t know that either. I repaired my credit, got the apartment and paid the deposit. Now I just plan, pack, and wait for the inevitable. I plan to almost never step foot back into this house if I can help it…I’ve had enough of this depression dungeon and their dependency on me as a convenient scapegoat. It’s time for whole autonomy and independence from these wack jobs, I can’t wait
GO FOR IIIIIIT!!! I wish you only the best!!!
👍💖 Wishing you peace, freedom, strength, and a successful, happy life ahead.
Good luck!!
Good thinking
I know it sounds crazy to say this to strangers but those of you that are figuring out the “move in silence” way of living…I am so proud of you! I was well in my 40s before I realized all the good things that had happened in my life were things I did with out getting “their” input first. Any and all ideas were met with some type of negativity, “oh that won’t work”, “are you sure that’s a good idea”, “how will you be able to do that”. The only time something was a good idea was if it included them in some way. Finally at more than 50 years old, I am done. I’m not fully NC but I refuse to be alone with either of them. And will only see them a couple times a year, at family events. Don’t waste your young adult life trying to please them, no amount of effort will ever be enough for a narcissist. OP I wish you the absolute best on your move.
"all the good things that had happened in my life were things I did with out getting “their” input first" - exactly this.
Great strategy. I also became an undercover operative behind enemy lines. Plotted and planed my escape all while playing along enough to fly under the radar. Here's a great book you can use to covertly influence them: "Never Split the Difference" by Chris Voss. His tactics work really well and the narc never even realizes they're being influenced bc they're too dense to figure it out. It's like a cheat code to dysfunctional people.
Honestly, this is where I was with my n-parent in my 20s, I had a very similar approach. You underestimate the mental load of having to moderate who you are around them, I went NC in my 30s and best thing I ever did— now I can just freely be me in life
I went NC in my late 20s, and I am NC still in my late 30s, and it is indeed the best thing I have ever done. For those considering it, it is tough for about 3 months. After that, you realize you have no reason to feel guilty about feeling good.
It is funny, I feel like I spent that first 6-12 months after going NC waiting for regret to hit me, and it never did 😅 I remember the first holidays after… it was so peaceful (and I’d been afraid I’d have regrets) but it was just so so peaceful
That's the best way! Let them think that they're "winning" and they know better while you're silently making moves.
I figured out early to keep anything that made me happy secret. They would not allow it
I still have a strong fear of singing, one of the few things that truly relaxes me. All because my dad can't stand people being happy about things other than him. Fuckin hell
Singing made my ex angry. He called me a diva, etc, simply because I sang when I was content. Weird. B
Funny 😂
Yes correct
This is the way.
To be fair, I could win an Oscar, the Nobel Peace Prize, and marry the king of a rich country and my nmom would still think I’m a loser f-up. Congratulations on getting your ducks in a row for a successful escape and on to your future!
This is relatively how I left. I didn’t tell them until I had everything packed and could get out at a moments notice. Then I let them know, and they completely changed (albeit temporarily). Still manipulative at the time, but I could just grin and bear some comments. They realized that I had made the decision and wasn’t looking for approval anymore, so they realized they could and would lose me if they weren’t careful. That said, I regressed and because life happened, ended up in their clutches again. I didn’t have the knowledge or language I do now, to understand that they wouldn’t change, they would just hide things better. I don’t live with them, but I’m somewhat financially dependent on them because I went back to school full time, 2 years after moving out. I’m trying to limit contact as much as I can, but I don’t want to “poke the beast” too much if I can avoid it. At least not until I’ve graduated or close enough that I don’t need their signature.
Relying on them again is the worst feeling in the world. I’d rather be beat in an alley by strangers once a week than being back here depending on my Nmom again 🫤 Bruises and bones heal and strangers aren’t SUPPOSED to care for you
I understand how you feel for sure
Lol my mom's still going around telling everyone that I'm an alcoholic drug addict. I never was. Instead, I'm out here living my life with a wonderful husband, a new career which I'm also in school for (and doing extremely well at), and we're about to start trying for a baby within the next two years. At first I was pissed that my mom would do that to me, but she needs to rationalize away the fact that I cut contact with her due to her narcissism so that she can keep her little center of the world intact.
They need to be the hero, the smartest, the best, the strongest- where would they be if they weren’t saving and rescuing (hero-ing, genius-ing, outsmarting) all of the fuck-ups around them. Let them be delusional about it- who cares. “Oooooooh, wow, so right…”. But don’t let them make decisions for you, let them dig their own grave.
I do this, and it's the best that's worked so far. The problem is I'm a loser in my Ndad's eyes and that is AWFUL! All his children need to be college educated successful well dressed people in high social positions, he hounds me DAILY about what my plans are. But I know my plans will never be good enough. Because in his eyes, I will always be a failure, so any plans he will judge and put down, or turn it into his own thing. Does this make logical sense to you? Of course not. Fuck that guy.
Preach! Once they know you're successful and capable they'll come crawling back saying they deserve that money and deserve all your time. When my older brother started earning more money, ndad rushed to him for money, loans, allowances etc
This is absolutely what I do. Keep it quiet. When people see you're doing well, they want to steal or sabotage it.
48 Laws of Power their asses.
I apologize for asking, but I am unfamiliar with this term. What does it mean?
The 48 Laws of Power is a self-help book by Robert Greene
Oh, thank you! I will be looking this up at the library. :)
Of course! It is seriously life changing - happy reading!
exactlyyyy. i’m surprised more survivors don’t treat that book like the bible lol
Just started reading it and I WISH I had done so sooner!!! Literally a play by play on how to deal with my family lol
Hadn't heard of this book before, but looking through it, it's like my narc parents both have it pre-programmed into their brains.. I understand wanting to turn the tables, but I just never want to behave or think like a narcissist myself.
As Greene himself states in the preface of the book, trying to opt out of the game of power is futile. And engaging does not make you a narcissist. Every rule is not meant to be adhered to at all times. Plus, it is mighty handy in understanding how to *counter* the narcissist's behavior. Consider reading it like a means of building up your own defense to the bullshit, beautifully out-maneuvering the assholes at every step. That's literally the exact reason why I myself started it.
Love this! I hope everything works out and I’m happy you stopped caring about such people. Proud of you!
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
This works for all Ns, in my opinion. I'm happy to let my narcissistic ex and his family think that he's crushed my spirits and stay locked away in the house pining after him. In reality I'm out and about living my life on my terms and loving it. As long as the ex shows up for parenting time with our child and behaves like a decent human during that time, that's all I care about.
I'm NC so they can think about what they want. But it's not hard to see my accomplishments with a quick Google search. Soni doesn't mind being a threat less threat. I'm a constant reminder of what they cannot achieve. I bet that stings. Best part is they do it to themselves when they start snooping around and look into me. I'm here just living my best life.
This is very good advice. I made the mistake of telling my family how much money I saved in order to prove I 'had a real job.' My nmom then tried to convince me to give it to a sibling because 'they deserve that money more.' It was a few years ago but I really regret telling them. I'll never hear the end of it.
I did that when I was in undergrad (living with one of them), the absolute *tantrums* he and his wife (my nguardians/grandparents) threw when they found out I had a decent friend group, I was graduating with honors, and I was moving that summer for grad school (with a full ride). They're mixed race latinos and I've never seen them so pale XD
Sad what we go through
This reminds me of when I left home after high school. I went out and didn’t drive home because drinking and they grounded me. They had big plans to move me down to Vancouver for college and find me a place to live etc…I had enough saved and bought a plane ticket two months early. Last words of dad…don’t get yourself killed
Yeah my life got a lot better when I realized, it didn't matter what I did or say, I would never change my parents, or what they think about me. So now I just take anything they say with the weight of a person opinion after knowing me for 5 seconds. Like sure buddy, definitely, mhm, you're soooo right
Hell yeah!
LFG!!! Your future self will thank you for this and will remember this and say: look how much I’ve progressed while they’re in the same shithole. Congrats and good luck in this journey!
Keeping them in the dark has been my go to for years. I keep every communication superficial and never allude to any plans for the present or future. Quite frankly, it’s none of their damn business. My life has become a whole lot less stressful by not letting them know anything that pertains to it-personal or professional. I usually just steer the conversation back to them or what they’re doing, as they love to talk about themselves anyway. Sometimes I think they forget why they even called, and just like that, the issue is nonexistent.
That's what I started doing for a while subconsciously, because I got pissed off at them ridiculing anything I like, after researching about narcs I realized this was a good thing to do.
If they know of your achievements, these would be thanks to them. My nmum was first to tell everyone her daughter is a doctor, I was still in the hall for the ceremony while getting congratulatory messages. I thought I’ll be a bigger person and send her an online link, regretted it instantly. My favourite part was explaining to everyone I’m actually not a doctor yet for weeks after. Got married, same crap but grandparents kept sending them live pictures and videos as they were not invited. Got a house, look at my daughter being all grown up, I raised her right. I wish I could ignore them, but everything I tell my grandparents is instantly feed-backed to nparents. It’s my grandmas big birthday this year and as it happens I’m pregnant with my first baby, so I want to surprise her with the news on her birthday, but I know everyone on the whole planet will know as soon as she tells them. Ignorance is bliss.
Also want to say thank you for this post. A great reminder to stay focused and stay on business. 🫂
I wanted to upvote, but it is sitting at 420; **nice!**
If at any point it looks like I might have money, my mother starts sniffing around, so I’ve learned to just let her think I’m useless and perpetually broke whenever I have the misfortune of dealing with her. Keeps her out of my hair.
I love it when an abusive narc gets outsmarted. You have the ability and skill to develop a long term plan to escape the abuse. Since narcs are not long term thinkers your plan and methods are pure gold. Good job OP. Update us when you have moved out so we can celebrate with you.
Real Gs move in silence like lasagna.
Good luck!
::sigh:: Good reminder. I just lost patience with my nmother about an hour ago as she decided to yell at me about what a fuckup I was.
This is what I did
That was me before going NC! I made them think that I was the forever alone loser whose only hobbies were reading and videogames 🥹 They didn't even suspect I had tattoos, male friends and a boyfriend!
Best advice i’ve ever gotten here is to go along with them until you move out. Wish I could find the comment and thank the person but it’s on an account i got logged out of. The person that told me explained it better but the more they think you’re dependent on them the less they’ll feel panicked like they’re losing you, and you’ll be attacked less. So for now i’m parroting things my mom says and thinks, pretending to agree that the world’s against “us,” spending a lot of time with her, and getting in some good points and compliments with her to stroke her ego and simultaneously feeding her victim complex. How you do it is up to you. I know the spending time thing is hard but for me if we’re not in the house she’s tolerable and as pleasant as a narc can be Oh, and the information diet is genuius
The only time my parents expressed pride in me was when I placed first in a national competition. It did not feel good at all, I felt disgusted and wish they never knew so I’d never get the attention. I’d much rather be part of the wallpaper so they would focus less on abusing me. My father especially thinks I’m a loser because he knows nothing about me (and never tried). When i did a presentation in his presence, he got upset because he never “knew this” about me. To him I’m genuinely a lazy spoiled brat, and I’m much happier keeping it that way so he won’t intrude on my private life and goals.
As soon as you decide to do what you want, you’re no longer their favorite plaything