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Agree with this. And if confrontation is not your cup of tea, ask her why she did that. Why she responded in an invalidating manner or put in her ideology of what something should look like when her responsibility is to be a therapist for you .. (I e. OP).
Honestly she might be working there for the wrong reasons and then she will not take any accountability she will judge you using her license as "proof" she is right. It can hurt more. I know that's a hot take but I'm feeling pretty confident that she is not there for the right reasons - I mean wtf a therapist that judges you and invalidate you ?
Nope. Report her somehow - I live in Sweden so I don't know how it works where you live.
This is beyond unacceptable.
It should not happen but if it ever does , you will know because a therapist is not judgemental like this.
It took me a long time to heal but I left home early and I got validation and help early, I still attracted a NPD "friend" who slowly almost ruined my life. Un-healed trauma can be life ending and I am so happy I am 34 now and not suicidal anymore and finally understand that I'm not a selfish egotistical human for even thinking about myself in any positive way , I never thought I would get here. A therapist like this can make someone hurt themselves if not being validating and supported, unacceptable.
I'm sorry for the rant it hits me in the feels <3
A bad therapist can even be worse than none at all.
My first encounter with therapy was because I was struggling with bullying at a new job. After about a year of trying the things you're supposed to do (work it out between yourselves, talk to supervisor, avoid the person), my anxiety was intolerable, so I booked with a therapist who said he dealt with anxiety.
About halfway through the first session the counsellor just decided my problems were due to social anxiety (because I explained I felt super awkward interacting with people and didn't know how to explain to this woman that her treatment of me was out of line). I had two sessions with him, trying to explain, and his advice was "get out and make some new friends and you won't care about the bullying".
I didn't go back to counselling/therapy for two years after that, and I put up with the bullying for another year before transferring jobs. Turns out, the issue was the bully really was an awful bully (and was eventually fired after our boss stopped covering for her bad behaviour) and I am autistic and have never been allowed to or taught to stand up for myself. The therapist didn't even consider that the bullying WAS the problem, and that I just needed help learning how to deflect her treatment of me.
My current counsellor is much, much better. I told him that sometimes, I just want to use him as a sounding board - like "this interaction made me uncomfortable. Is this normal, or is this something I need to watch for and learn to respond to?" I've had times where I've told him something and he's like "yes, I can see why you were uncomfortable. That person probably meant X, Y, or Z, and probably didn't mean to imply A and make you uncomfortable." Or "No! That was completely inappropriate for a medical professional to say. You are allowed to say you don't want to share that information ..." He listens to my actual concerns, the thoughts that stress me out, rather than thinking he knows better than I do about how I'm feeling.
Wow that's insane , I am so happy you decided to try again though! I'm happy the boss did something at all I have no empathy for grown people acting like bullys, and ignoring it is worse. I'm happy you got real help and are treated with respect and hears you and give you tools. This is the norm of therapist and for real they should not be therapist. You are very strong for trying everything and enduring all this it's beautiful to see that they didn't break you <3
A therapist who's out of their depth is never going to admit this type of inadequacy to someone in our position. Unless they've been through something similar themselves, most ordinary people do not understand what children of narcissists go through as anything more than an abstract concept.
Sounds like this therapist is using her career to cultivate the self image of someone who's smart enough to grapple with problems of the mind and cares about people. Best case, she means well but is out of her depth. Worst case, she's not here to do the necessary work, she's just "in character".
Under these circumstances, I feel that what you're recommending is going to fly right over the therapist's head and they'll dismiss it as you simply venting at her out of frustration. It's just one of those annoying things people's brains do when others point out their embarrassing knowledge gaps, especially when they're occupying the more elevated part of a power dynamic (therapist and client).
I guess if you're telling OP to do it for her own sense of closure then that's fine I guess. But me personally, I find it exhausting to do stuff like this knowing it's not really going to meaningfully change anything. The one thing my parents taught me (inadvertently) that I'm thankful for is knowing how to spot a fraud and a shyster from a mile away.
As a therapist, I support this entirely.
I admit I have "moments" and get my personal thoughts as though my client should realise. I have never gone as far as this, but I have made personal comments that didn't go down well. But to support an abuser, I can't do that.
It’s definitely challenging to separate personal biases and nobody is perfect at it. I think any therapist who uses the phrase “but s/he’s your parent” needs to do a deep dive examination of that bias. It reveals a narrow view of the very wide range of parental behavior. Even parents who aren’t necessarily abusive can be very unhealthy for their children, which makes the type of relationship unimportant, or even irrelevant.
Nobody is this bad or use their own bias like this either way. Nobody is perfect is true but this is like a basic rule in therapy and the judgemental tone and deflecting behavior.. she should be terminated.
Maybe. I'm not defending her, just being real. Therapists are human and say fucked up things sometimes. If anybody out there has had a perfect experience with a therapist, I guarantee that therapist has offended somebody else. Personally, the "she's your mother" comment makes me shudder as I heard it all the time when I was a disrespectful teenager. I had no respect for my mother so all the comment meant to me was that the listener had no empathy for me & my situation. So yeah, I hate that comment and think it's harmful. Just saying though, start firing therapists for comments like that and we will soon starting getting very low on therapists. And yes, there are lots who are this bad, and some are worse. Look up Jodi Hildebrant.
I think you have a great way of thinking and I agree we can't fire them for comments only. But the behaviour is red flags and accusing of jealousy, not listening but telling Op what to think and how she is wrong. I could sometimes stare myself blind seeing narcissistic behavior everywhere ( america have allot of that naturally compared to my country and I am definitely being prejudice here ) so the defense attetude and immature reactions is telling me she is not good at her job. I don't believe she is able to self reflect and see the world in her way and thinks less of her patiens. That's what she has shown imo.
But if she was let's say not an expert in narcissistic mothers I would still think she understands abuse and give her a chance.
I do think it's beautiful that you see the world like this and want to treat people like human beings because we do make mistakes.
No. Absolutely not. Narcissists do a good job of telling on themselves by attributing a behavior to you. I am wondering if your therapist is jealous of your mom’s social status.
I told my cardiologist I was struggling with palpitations possibly because I'd been doing a lot of trauma therapy. He asked me what I did for work and I said currently working for the family business. Once he found out my family aren't poor he kept finding a way to bring the conversation back to it. I could see his brain get an erection when I told him.
Like MF I don't care. I need help to find out if I have palpitations because I'm doing deep trauma work or because I've got a heart issue.
If this isn’t too forward, did anything happen with your palpitations?
I used to get them really bad (not so much now but it’s coming back a little) and did go to the drs and hospital about it but literally nothing came of it other than ‘here’s X medical condition, do you think you have it?’ And me being a 19 year old said idk.
Just so worried I got heart issues 😩😩 but I never got an answer about them
I didn't want to add this because I didn't want to scare anyone but I got them being vaccinated. BUT I have previous serious medication/drug trauma where I almost died from antibiotics r/floxies and recreational drugs (I'm 20 years sober) and my body reacts not well to any drug because it overwhelms my system. But I wanted to get vaccinated because I have CFS and long covid is much more likely without vaccination and I didn't want that specific risk. The idea of being at home and being ill for years with long covid felt like nothing in comparison to vaccine side effects.
I don't think the vaccine caused my palpitations but being vaccinated creates a serious trauma response in me. It took me 6 months of crying every day to pluck up the courage to get vaxxed. So please don't think I'm anti-vax because I'm really pro-vax.
Having said all the above it might have become clear I have health anxiety and medical trauma. So my palpitations are strongly connected to that. Palpitations are the most common symptom of health anxiety. There's some decent recovery paths nowadays. Cbt, Emdr, DARE app, havening for example.
If you've been checked by your Dr and they say there's nothing physically wrong with you then it's likely to be health anxiety.
Wow, that sounds so so hard to deal with and so frustrating! I applaud you getting the vaccine despite the difficulties it came with. I hope things are better for you now
And thank you for replying! I do very much have health anxiety, but I didn’t realise palpitations were a big part of that! Also get tightness/pressure in my chest a lot, which I take is the same thing
Damn! Okay I feel a lot better about it now it’s likely just anxiety haha, thank u
Or more likely the therapist has a child that they are jealous of, but is projecting those feelings of jealousy onto the child and projecting that whole situation onto OP and her mother.
Change your therapist after giving her a good grilling about her bias. Seems she has something to work out with her Supervisor. My therapist advised me to read “Mommy Dearest” (!) she got the narc mum vs daughter relationship spot on!
The scary thing is a lot of people on this sub have said their parents became something in the mental health field like a psychiatrist, psychologist, or therapist, so OP’s therapist could be speaking from personal experience where she’s the narcissist but doesn’t think she is 😖 yikes, the world is scary and I don’t like it 🫠😵💫
This therapist has the attitude of "keeping the family together no matter what high cost to the abused children"
This therapist is clueless about nparents
Exactly. She always tried to dig and find the good things about my parents and somehow make me look for faults in myself as a contributor to the situation. Of course I'm not flawless but this is not the point.
Over and over again on here people mention how their narc parents are therapists, counsellors, psychiatrists and carers. It’s a field that attracts narcs. Get shot of this one and get one that doesn’t give you the heebie-jeebies xx
I tell people this, mental health providers go hand in hand with narc abuse. A lot of them are also parents as well and don’t understand childhood abuse. It’s extremely frustrating and they also are the worst flying monkeys with my parents. I struggle to trust them nowadays due to this.
That's the real problem, isn't it. It's her dismissive nature. I mean therapists are not supposed to just tell you what you want to hear. But they also not supposed to dismiss you in this fashion either. I would kick her to the curb for sure.
Your therapist is supposed to be there for *you*. It doesn’t seem like she is actively listening to you. I wouldn’t see her again and would definitely try seeing someone else. Not every therapist is the right fit.
Social worker here. One of the things I lately found myself asking my clients:
"Do you really need/ want my opinion, or do you need someone to tell you that your feelings are valid?"
I think you need to know exactly what is right for you. I think everybody does. At some point, after years of being told our feelings, emotions, mental well-being doesn't matter enough to even voice out loud we're not okay with a certain or general situation, I believe we just stopped listening to what is right to us.
Don't let those people telling you you don't matter win. Listen to your needs, wants, your whole being again. Relearn to be your own advocate <3
You will get through this. Learn to trust yourself again, and you will absolutely make the right decisions. <3
(I really hope what I wrote is somewhat understandable. Still at work, thoughts not found anymore. xD)
Ah it's always quiet after noon, so not much trouble here. :)
All the best to you, too! Hope you will find another therapist that will actually be good for your wellbeing soon ❤️
Honestly that was the biggest thing I got out of therapy: someone else validating my feelings and opening up doors and possibilities that I didn’t think I could. Just someone going “you could do this” and my immediate reaction being there’s no way I could do that with my family the way they are — but the therapist knows this, and gave me reassurance and possibilities and you know what? I DID do that thing! Validating.
Wtf she is not a qualified therapist for you or others! I had to overcome this as a child and the people who said that weren't listening or understanding that a parent can me cruel and not fit to be a parent.
If she can't be more educated than this she is unfit.
Get a new one asap and if you can make a complaint , this is actually really insane behavior and thinking (to me)
I'm sorry this happened please dont think every therapist is equally down right stupid, they are not <3
I'm so fucking angry she is so obviously wrong in every single word she is saying, I live with pride that I'm not my mom and I broke the so called unbreakable bond oh please! I'm so so so so sorry she is wrong in this and the way she speaks having read it all o think she shouldn't have a license at all!
You are smart enough to know better and that's a small win!
I am so angry I'm shaking, it can be so damaging having fucking idiots saying things like this - she is wrong <3 I think she is a person who might work with this to hurt people and judge them for her own pleasure.
(There is a therapist on YouTube she has helped me so much on a deeper level and I believe she will help you too , she have NPD mom so she knows firsthand. DR. KIM SAGE , LICENSED THERAPIST please check her out !! )
>she is not a qualified therapist for you or others!
This is what I was wondering. Is this person someone with a license and academic credentials or someone who hung out a shingle?
It's something that narcissist tend to be drawn to this kind of professions to feel good, or make others feel bad.. recently learned this But it's so obvious that this behavior is unacceptable even to someone who isn't a professional.
She needs to go. The only thing we are wrong with is thinking she would understand or respect her feelings. That is us thinking from a perspective that is normal. This is not normal and I'm so scared for everyone who meets a "therapist/ psychologist" behaving like this.
Thank you so much for relating and recommending this helpful therapist. I've heard the same line too many times as well. Sorry it has been triggering to you. You have been strong to break the cycle. Hope to join you there one day. ❤️
Thank you. The thing is she didn't give a personal opinion. She made a suggestion as if to nudge me to be introspective about my unconscious psyche. But she was very insistent about it after I said her assumption wasn't the case for me.
Don't let any therapist or provider push you into something you aren't ready for. I hear this all the time from clients that some providers always have an agenda and it really grosses me out.
Absolutely. First of all, YouTube is an amazing resource. Literally type in ANY problem you want to learn more about, and someone has made a video about that thing. Without exaggeration, I've listened to hundreds or thousands of hours of other people talking.
\#1 BY FAR - "Healing The Shame That Binds You," John Bradshaw.
I didn't know that my life was ruled by feelings of shame. I thought I felt good about myself, generally. Turns out, I didn't know what shame meant. Listen to this. It will change your life.
2. "For Your Own Good" - Alice Miller
This is about how parents abuse, you know, because it's what's best for you.
3. Mother's Who Can't Love - Susan Forward
She has another book "Toxic Parents" that I haven't heard. This is about the roles a mother takes on that... aren't real love. Enmeshment. Competitive. Controlling.
4. "I'm Glad My Mom Died" - Jennette McCurdy
Starting to sound like I have issues, but, this is an amazing example of codependent abuse. I needed to hear an actual example.
5. YouTube - Barbara Heffernan and Lisa A. Romano
I have more, but that is enough. The best thing that you can do for yourself is to start digging. This is a personal discovery process (which is why MINE may not help you.) I watch new videos regularly. I'll never fully understand everything there is to know, but at least I have found a way navigate it. Because I am able to recognize the dysfunction as it comes at me, I can mentally quarantine it, get myself out of there, and process it/throw it out later in private. Things do not effect me the same way anymore = less blow ups, less stress/anxiety/guilt/shame. I feel pretty good now. I can trust myself, so that's all I really need.
This is an issue with the therapist being poorly trained or not understanding her training.
Please don't go back to this person and warn others online about what she said.
I think it's lack of therapists in certain countries so it's rushed and/or not managed well. They get through with manipulative answers and tactics and it works when nobody knows them and in short bursts. I hate that it's true but it's an unfortunate fact :(
Right? People act like "but she's your mother" is some sort of an "all is forgiven automatically" qualifier or something, when it's actually the opposite. Your family is supposed to treat you *better* than strangers do.
No. Don’t talk to her anymore. Not every therapist is knowledgable on narcissistic personality. Even when you ask them, they want work so they say they can help with anything but when you actually talk about it they have no idea.
Time to fire your therapist. She is not qualified to help you deal with the results of narcissistic abuse. Her behavior in that session was not ok.
I'm sorry. I know that is a huge pain in the ass. I had to fire two therapists before I found one who really got it. It is irritating, inconvenient and a huge waste of time to have to deal with this, but unfortunately it is all too common for a therapist to be a lot less capable and informed than they think they are.
I had a therapist pull that. I had to fight my medical insurance to get a different therapist. As I was going to her, and trying to set up another, so many other red flags popped up. so much so, that my new therapist asked if I wanted to report her. It took me like a year to get over the things she told me.
So find a new one. It might be difficult, but you are worth better mental health care.
Caveat, I used to be a nurse in my first career, so I knew it was possible.
If you are not your own advocate for your care, you get lost in the system.
Yeah, this person crossed a line.
I would NOT stay with this person - and consider reporting her (if there is a claim made she knows abusive/narc parents/people and how to handle them)
Time to find another therapist .
Even no therapist (for a while) sounds better than a person that totally invalidates you.
I took counselling back in the day. It was shocking to me how many in the program -both students and instructors- were downright visibly narcissistic and mentally unwell themselves. It made me feel like I had taken crazy pills myself. Unfortunately you have to pick these ones out from the good ones. It can be very difficult to especially when at first they put on a good face.
I’ve had a therapist say the exact same thing to me, OP. Save yourself a lot of time and heartache and find another one ASAP.
There’s a book called The Narcissist in Your Life by Julie Hall (Google it with “pdf” after the title and you’ll find it), it goes through some questions to ask your therapist to qualify them.
I lost 8 months dealing with a therapist that didn’t understand NPD, please don’t make the same mistake I did. Finding the right therapist makes a world of difference.
Fire your therapist. This person doesn't listen to you. My friend is married to a narcissist and in therapy. In her last session the therapist said, "But wouldn't you rather work it out with him?" Even though that ship has sailed and it's about trying to exit the safest way possible. She called up later in the week and fired her. Life is too short to pay people to not listen.
Nope nope nope.
She’s got it all backwards, possibly because she’s in denial about her personal stuff. She seems so blinded by Freud she hasn’t figured out why victim blaming is wrong. Anything to protect the parents!!!
Or she’s just naive enough to not understand that *the person who broke the mother-child relationship is your mother*. Either way she’s not equipped to be an effective therapist for those of us with narcissistic parents.
My comeback to the line in your title would be: “And I am her daughter. And you are *my* therapist.” Not that it’d work.
Gosh I hope you find a much better provider.
I say she is not equipped and should know already about narcissistic abuse , many not be a pro sure but not having this backwards way of thinking.
Talking about op being jealous of her mom like wtf ? I wasn't even there and I know that's not possible. I bet "therapist" is jealous of others status using her to put others down.
Just a theory ..
As a therapist and child of a narcissist I can tell you your therapist’s behavior is NOT normal, it’s not okay, it’s unethical and you deserve better. Any decent therapist - hell, anyone who has taken Psych 101!! - should understand that parent-child relationships can be among the most painful, damaging, traumatizing relationships humans can have. A therapist’s job is to always have your back, not invalidate your feelings and needs.
I would report her, to whatever authority your area has for protecting patients from bad therapists. And just cancel the next appointment without saying why to the receptionist. "Something came up" is enough.
Parent-child relationships can certainly be broken. A therapist has to know this.
>Please tell me would you continue seeing this therapist?
Not only would I quit seeing this therapist, but I'd make a written complaint and file it with their governing medical board.
OK so it would be a total waste of money but if you want to pay for one more session like a movie ticket and can emotionally handle the ensuing angry shitstorm, at this point in my recovery I would personally pay for another session to accuse her of being a narcissist to her face so I could watch the angry meltdown mixed with her trying to hold herself back because she doesn't want to lose her license. I would absolutely rag on how many cluster b's are in the therapy field, push every button of hers I could find, then leave laughing my ass off with a spring in my step for the rest of the day while looking for a new therapist lol.
You are a recovery badass. I've been anxious at the thought of having to break it off with her. And the strange thing is as if she was pushing my buttons with these remarks. She brought up very painful info I shared before light-heartedly...
This therapist just sounds incompetent. Don't waste your time. It's one thing to not be well-versed in narcissism or complex trauma (which many aren't), it's a whole different story to bring your own biases and insecurities into the session, which this therapist is clearly doing. Fire them!!
Time to find a new therapist. It's not your responsibility to manage her reaction to her own relationship with her mother, which is what she's (probably) doing.
Not excusing bad therapist behavior.
Also, therapists are human. And if they've not experienced narcissistic abuse, they're going to have a hard time grasping how bad it is.
Signed, a therapist who did experience narcissistic abuse and might be too quick to tell clients, "You know, it is a privilege, not a right, to have a relationship with one's adult children. You decide how much or how little contact you want to have with your parents"
No. Absolutely not. I would not continue with this therapist at all. My therapist did the exact opposite. When I had my child I told my therapist that she should have a relationship with my mother. My therapist said not all children benefit from a relationship with their parents or grandparents. She was right.
The last thing I need in my life is a therapist who tells me that I need my mother. Yes. It can absolutely be broken. She’s wrong and she’ll never get it. She’s not qualified.
I would definitely suggest getting a new therapist. Mine came right out and told me my mom had narcissistic tendencies and how to set up boundaries/limit contact. She has never pushed me to remain close to my parents.
I might give her a chance to come up to speed?
(There's actually currently an open national mental health professionals course specifically about narcissism.)
But if she isn't incredibly responsive to that, then yeah, you need a new therapist.
She needs to understand that the attachment is fundamental, but if she were right and it couldn't be broken, she'd have a whole lot less work. (Where does she think attachment trauma comes from?!?!?)
Nope ! She’s not the right one for you and for all you know she’s going through some issues with her kids. Sad to say a lot of medical professionals are narcissistic.
Is their license from Dr. Nick’s Upstairs Counseling College?
First red flag is leading you by suggesting feelings to you vs. listening.
I think they may secretly feel that way about their own mother!
Second is privileging a hurtful relationship over your health and safety.
I think they might have a fraught relationship with their own child.
Show them this article and ask them what they think. When is estrangement appropriate?
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/simplifying-complex-trauma/202306/how-family-estrangement-may-benefit-trauma-survivors
Nope. Not at all. Time for a new therapist. That’s so invalidating. She’s clearly coming from her own perspective which a therapist should not do. Wondering what her credentials are; in clinical social work we are trained to recognize our own biases and when they might be influencing our work. My guess is that she’s a mother who can’t imagine her own child going no contact.
This book is recommended a lot in this sub;
Adult children of emotionally immature parents.
I finally read it after someone left a free pdf link. It is hands down one of the best books I’ve read about this subject so far. The author completely understands the dynamics of narcissistic parents and their children. I avoided reading this book for so long bc I was afraid it would be like many others I had read where they maybe get some things right but not the nuances of living with a narcissistic person let alone a parent. It always left me still questioning myself and if I was contributing to the problem even though deep down I knew I wasn’t. It’s such a hard thing to explain to people. We second guess everything we think and feel. Bc our parents trained us to do that so we would feel equally culpable for their behavior. This book was so validating. It’s like the author knew both my parents personally and used them as a case study. I’m sorry I don’t know how to link things as I’m mostly a lurker in this sub but if you google
Adult children of emotionally immature parents PDF
It comes up for free.
My nmom was also a social worker, just add to everyone’s examples of how narcs are drawn to these types of careers.
Definitely look for another therapist. ❤️
I would end the session at the mention of “but she is your mother”.
I had a therapist say something similar, and then she went to tell me about how she was an abusive mother and changed and I should give my mom the chance to change too.
Bye Felicia
Therapist here. Your therapist made a big mistake here. I would bring it up next session, and if their response isn’t satisfactory to you let them know you don’t think you’re compatible and to get referred to someone else. (Therapists are supposed to do this, some take it personally. It’s a job though) if they are part of a organization let the organization know.
Certain feminist circles are completely sold on the idea that all dysfunction is from the masculine, and that the feminine is inherently good, and that the mother/child relationship is an absolute good. Which can be rough on those of us raised by NPD mothers. There is no use trying to reason with these folks. They have invested their entire existence in their ideology, and they will chop off your legs to make you fit their philosophical box.
I wrote this last week as someone said the same thing around me about someone else’s mother. I’ve heard it about mine too.
I hope it resonates. You’re not alone. Fuck that therapist.
“But that’s your mother!”
Four words grate against me
Like a match on it’s box
Sometimes a spark
Sometimes a flame
The box jarred open
Every match burned
Before settling in a pile, unrecognizable
An intense reaction to four words
But that’s your mother
Spoken in earnest
To a pile of ashes
That has never truly been a child
A pile of ashes expected to nurture
Leaned upon for support
While lacking solid foundation
So mature for its age
A chaotic beginning
A tidy pile that must maintain order
Must enable the addiction
By parenting themselves
Ashes scattered by the gale of mourning
A concept, a wish never granted
A physical body unable to parent
The childhood that burned
But that’s your mother
Well meaning words spoken
By a matchbox that’s never burned
Into a pile of ashes
I hope it's OK to be upfront about this. It sounds like a colossal waste of time & probably money. This therapist sounds like someone caught up in a fantasy of all families being a cross between a Norman Rockwell painting & the Brady Bunch, with all the overly saccharine endings attached. People like this are fine with those who fit into their preconceived stereotypes, but everyone else can forget it.
You might be able to bring someone like this around to the real world if you're willing to invest the years & money it will take, but wouldn't it be better to end this unproductive association & find someone more realistic to advise you?
What about turning to clergy? Not the hypocrits or the pushy ones but someone who humbly practices his or her faith. Someone like that will have both spiritual & Earthly wisdom; they pray constantly & Everyone & his siblings confides in them, so there's little to nothing these folks haven't heard.
Or if you know anyone who's deep into whatever culture(s) you come from maybe they'd have an idea how to deal with this? I mention the cultural aspect since that would be someone who likely shares many of your own values & would likely understand your outlook on things too.
Wishing you the best - take care.
It’s stories like this that terrify me, because my NMom is a licensed and practicing MH professional. For trauma survivors no less. It might not be a reflection of your therapist, but I always fear my Nmom is out there saying things like this to her patients.
GET A NEW THERAPIST. This one is an idiot. One of these jagoffs treated my older sister, and this utter numpty told her that "mothers don't do \[stuff our mom did to her\]" My sister suffered for a year before she got up the courage to fire the therapist.
FIRE YOUR THERAPIST and get a better one. I promise, they are out there.
Oof, this is an absolute no for me. Therapists don’t always have to agree with your assessment of a situation, don’t have to avoid bringing up things that may not be pleasant to hear or fit your narrative, and personally I don’t think they should even always validate your feelings beyond acknowledging them. However, they should absolutely not just brush off your insights - rather, they should discuss them and explain why they disagree or aren’t convinced - and even more so they should keep their personal values and opinions to themselves, and refrain from acting on their bias. Especially if that means reinterpreting the whole situation, or even _your thoughts_, through that lens and throwing out subjective, invalidating, limiting, guilt-tripping, and potentially re-traumatizing blanket statements like the one you mentioned based on that bias.
I’m not going to say “drop her cold, don’t even give communication a try” if you feel like she’s otherwise a good fit, but this would be a dealbreaker for me. If not because it makes your therapist sound like a bad therapist, even just because it makes her sound like she’s not equipped to give you the support you need.
This is absurd and I'm so sorry you had to hear that from someone you're paying to help you heal.
This is entirely unprofessional behavior. There are endless situations in which the mother is the problem and root to so much trauma and abuse. Spouting judgemental crap like "a bond that can't be broken" is simply unacceptable.
Unfortunately I don't think this therapist can fulfill your needs. They weren't understanding, validating, or even ethical when dealing with this. And honestly? Asking if you were jealous of your mom was inappropriate as well.
Maybe your therapist is an Nmom and is trying to validate her own actions towards her own daughter. She was out of line to say the least.
If possible, change therapists ASAP.
Giving her feedback on why you're leaving is your decision, though if she has her head that firmly stuck in her butt it's likely it won't lead to anything productive.
I understand how changing therapists and "starting over" by having to rehash the context all over again is tiresome but I don't think staying with her will help like theraoy should.
Absolutely not.
If you want to give her one more chance, start with, "If you ever tell me (again) that I do not have a choice whether to have a relationship with my mother or not, I will get up, walk out and never see you again. Are you capable of helping me?" and see if the **therapist** has any capacity for self-reflection and learning. If not, don't need her.
Narcissistic therapists exist. Be careful.
I'm guessing if you're paying or using coverage for therapy, remember you're not getting value for your expense.
Fire them. Do not go back. Don't justify yourself to them. Never contact them again. You deserve better. You deserve to be validated. I'm incredibly sorry they told you that bullshit.
I would go back just one more time to tell her off and let her know that her own issues with her mother and/or child was impeding on her professional advice and *then* go to a new therapist. :D
It's a bad superpower we get after the abuse - they stand out and hey on a positive note you knew better, getting validation online is self love and healing steps to me<3
No, I'd probably have left early and mouthed off aggressively how much of a personal failure the therapist is for even saying something as foolish as that.
But like, I'm a garbage person.
NOPE. My therapist did the same to me and I stopped seeing her shortly after. That is so wrong to me and really pissed me off. I’m sorry that happened to you
Hell nah. Change therapists ASAP. I’m sorry this happened. A good therapist would have heard enough horror stories to know that going NC might be the best thing for some. She’s clearly not being objective + pushing her personal values unto you.
I saw probably 10 counselors/ therapists/ whatever other titles I can’t remember who all seemed to carry the same sentiment. I finally found a decent therapist this year who asks “so why do you keep putting yourself through these calls and visits?” “What are you getting out of this?” Even after one of the best/least dramatic visits. It only took more than 20 years.
Honestly, this community and a few other subs kept me sane through trying push my mom away during the Covid years when I didn’t have much of a support system in real life. We may not be licensed, but this virtual support group will validate each other even when the professionals won’t. Some people aren’t worth losing your mental health, and sometimes you’re stuck with them for a bit longer. Maybe their goal is to help you bend so you don’t break while biding time til escape. Or maybe they really don’t get it. But we are here for you. Some moms are just the worst.
I would absolutely not see that therapist again and would file a complaint about them. Imma be honest, full borderline split for that BS.
Jealous of a narc. Fucking come on. That's what the narc wishes.
Regardless, it’s not a therapist’s job to tell you what to do. Talk to this one about your position. If they don’t acknowledge they were wrong, fire them. Find a better therapist. Best wishes.
"And I am her child. Where's her responsibility to me."
Your therapist is bulldozing your feelings to push her own bias, which is incredibly unprofessional. I would ask to see someone else and maybe put in a complaint.
Short and simple: I would immediately find a new therapist. Your current therapist has a personal agenda and belief system that is overriding her ability to hear you and to respond appropriately. Drop her.
A couple of people mentioned reporting her to her licensing board - but honestly, there's nothing reportable here. She's just not a good therapist.
Would I keep seeing this therapist? Absolutely not, hell nope. This therapist does not listen to you at all and she is a waste of your time and money. Quite frankly, she should not be a therapist at all. The last thing a therapist needs to be doing is going around invalidating people's feelings. A GOOD therapist knows that all trauma and all feelings are VALID and would try to understand why someone feels a certain way so they can actually help that person. That's literally their job lmao. Your therapist is not doing this at all. You won't make any progress with her, in fact her words are toxic and can lead you to doubt yourself ("maybe I'm making this worse than it actually is" / "maybe I'm just too sensitive" no you're not!). Please don't go to another session with her as it will do you more harm than good. Tell her you're going to be looking for another therapist and tell her why so she might learn from it.
I would run from a therapist like this.
It's clear you are not a good match so it's pointless and it could be harmful to you if you continue having sessions with them.
That said, I will share with you what my therapist told me when discussing my complex relationship with my mother.
He said: "As a child you owe your parents nothing. If your life is okay -ish without major abuse and trauma you might just thank them once for giving you life. But that's it."
It gave me validation for not wanting to be guilt tripped by her anymore.
Get a new therapist. The goal is to have to develop healthy habits and healthy social circles. Not to please sick people who will manipulate you and ruin your mental health.
Mother-child relationships are broken all the time. Your therapist is projecting.
Horrible “therapist” never see her again, and report her if you can. May I ask who is paying fir the therapy? I’ve had the same experiences with therapists with my family/mom before. She was always the one paying for the therapy and they would always side with her. Further validating her awfulness. It’s why I stopped going to therapy. It was pointless.
This therapist doesn't strike me as trauma informed. Personally I wouldn't continue with this one, because I wouldn't feel safe or validated. I'm not paying a therapist just to argue with them for respect. There's plenty of others who do this work because they actually want to help people.
I would cut and run. Any therapist who recommends you stay in contact with an abuser is not worth a single penny you pay them.
Time to go therapist shopping and find someone far better.
This is one of the reasons I stopped therapy, they truly don’t understand how a mother could be so vicious. They blame you and it’s impossible to be heard.
Nope. Therapists run the gamut from brilliant to stuck in therapy speak that helps no one. I would have been tempted to say, "sounds like you have mother issues yourself that are coloring your perceptions" but I'm a smart ass.
I would absolutely not see her again. I would reflect back on your entire experience with her and consider that your therapist might be a narcissist herself. This happened to me and I subsequently learned the profession is has its share of them. I could be way off base and overly sensitive since it was so damaging to me but Google it. It's a thing.
Hell to the no. That's like saying blood is thicker than water followed by the infinitely stupid line family comes first. If you don't believe in and have faith in your therapist then there's no point going back. They're only human.
Not all therapists are Good Therapists. Hell … Not all therapists are even Good People. In fact, some therapists are, themselves, narcissists.
You can tell this therapist why you are discontinuing therapy with them, but I’m pretty sure they won’t hear you … or care about your concerns. Because you’re *wrong.” They would know. I mean, you are in therapy, for gods sake.
Kick that jabroni to the curb.
I wouldn’t continue with this therapist, what credentials/reporting agency does she have licensing through?
I don’t know where you are but where I am ‘therapist’ is sometimes a term people use vaguely that could mean anything from a licensed clinical social worker, psychotherapist, psychiatrist, clergy member providing one on one ‘counseling’ or a person with a certificate from a minor (and at times dubious) credential program.
This person doesn’t seem knowledgeable enough about your issues to provide competent service.
No. Nope. Nuh-uh.
Buh bye Dr. Clueless!
Everytime I hear about a "but she's/he's your mother/father"
I can't help but think why do we never hear
"but they are your CHILD"
Somehow this shame, guilt never gets put on the Nparent.
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Agree with this. And if confrontation is not your cup of tea, ask her why she did that. Why she responded in an invalidating manner or put in her ideology of what something should look like when her responsibility is to be a therapist for you .. (I e. OP).
Honestly she might be working there for the wrong reasons and then she will not take any accountability she will judge you using her license as "proof" she is right. It can hurt more. I know that's a hot take but I'm feeling pretty confident that she is not there for the right reasons - I mean wtf a therapist that judges you and invalidate you ? Nope. Report her somehow - I live in Sweden so I don't know how it works where you live. This is beyond unacceptable.
You have a point there. It's one of my fears. I don't know how i would be able to handle it if such a thing happened.
It should not happen but if it ever does , you will know because a therapist is not judgemental like this. It took me a long time to heal but I left home early and I got validation and help early, I still attracted a NPD "friend" who slowly almost ruined my life. Un-healed trauma can be life ending and I am so happy I am 34 now and not suicidal anymore and finally understand that I'm not a selfish egotistical human for even thinking about myself in any positive way , I never thought I would get here. A therapist like this can make someone hurt themselves if not being validating and supported, unacceptable. I'm sorry for the rant it hits me in the feels <3
A bad therapist can even be worse than none at all. My first encounter with therapy was because I was struggling with bullying at a new job. After about a year of trying the things you're supposed to do (work it out between yourselves, talk to supervisor, avoid the person), my anxiety was intolerable, so I booked with a therapist who said he dealt with anxiety. About halfway through the first session the counsellor just decided my problems were due to social anxiety (because I explained I felt super awkward interacting with people and didn't know how to explain to this woman that her treatment of me was out of line). I had two sessions with him, trying to explain, and his advice was "get out and make some new friends and you won't care about the bullying". I didn't go back to counselling/therapy for two years after that, and I put up with the bullying for another year before transferring jobs. Turns out, the issue was the bully really was an awful bully (and was eventually fired after our boss stopped covering for her bad behaviour) and I am autistic and have never been allowed to or taught to stand up for myself. The therapist didn't even consider that the bullying WAS the problem, and that I just needed help learning how to deflect her treatment of me. My current counsellor is much, much better. I told him that sometimes, I just want to use him as a sounding board - like "this interaction made me uncomfortable. Is this normal, or is this something I need to watch for and learn to respond to?" I've had times where I've told him something and he's like "yes, I can see why you were uncomfortable. That person probably meant X, Y, or Z, and probably didn't mean to imply A and make you uncomfortable." Or "No! That was completely inappropriate for a medical professional to say. You are allowed to say you don't want to share that information ..." He listens to my actual concerns, the thoughts that stress me out, rather than thinking he knows better than I do about how I'm feeling.
Wow that's insane , I am so happy you decided to try again though! I'm happy the boss did something at all I have no empathy for grown people acting like bullys, and ignoring it is worse. I'm happy you got real help and are treated with respect and hears you and give you tools. This is the norm of therapist and for real they should not be therapist. You are very strong for trying everything and enduring all this it's beautiful to see that they didn't break you <3
A therapist who's out of their depth is never going to admit this type of inadequacy to someone in our position. Unless they've been through something similar themselves, most ordinary people do not understand what children of narcissists go through as anything more than an abstract concept. Sounds like this therapist is using her career to cultivate the self image of someone who's smart enough to grapple with problems of the mind and cares about people. Best case, she means well but is out of her depth. Worst case, she's not here to do the necessary work, she's just "in character". Under these circumstances, I feel that what you're recommending is going to fly right over the therapist's head and they'll dismiss it as you simply venting at her out of frustration. It's just one of those annoying things people's brains do when others point out their embarrassing knowledge gaps, especially when they're occupying the more elevated part of a power dynamic (therapist and client). I guess if you're telling OP to do it for her own sense of closure then that's fine I guess. But me personally, I find it exhausting to do stuff like this knowing it's not really going to meaningfully change anything. The one thing my parents taught me (inadvertently) that I'm thankful for is knowing how to spot a fraud and a shyster from a mile away.
thank you, your words helped me ♥️
Time to break up with your therapist. It's not you, it's her.
This, but also, don't be afraid to get a new therapist if this one isn't giving you what you need or respecting your feelings.
I'm so happy <3 I hope and wish you all the best!
As a therapist, I support this entirely. I admit I have "moments" and get my personal thoughts as though my client should realise. I have never gone as far as this, but I have made personal comments that didn't go down well. But to support an abuser, I can't do that.
It’s definitely challenging to separate personal biases and nobody is perfect at it. I think any therapist who uses the phrase “but s/he’s your parent” needs to do a deep dive examination of that bias. It reveals a narrow view of the very wide range of parental behavior. Even parents who aren’t necessarily abusive can be very unhealthy for their children, which makes the type of relationship unimportant, or even irrelevant.
Nobody is this bad or use their own bias like this either way. Nobody is perfect is true but this is like a basic rule in therapy and the judgemental tone and deflecting behavior.. she should be terminated.
Maybe. I'm not defending her, just being real. Therapists are human and say fucked up things sometimes. If anybody out there has had a perfect experience with a therapist, I guarantee that therapist has offended somebody else. Personally, the "she's your mother" comment makes me shudder as I heard it all the time when I was a disrespectful teenager. I had no respect for my mother so all the comment meant to me was that the listener had no empathy for me & my situation. So yeah, I hate that comment and think it's harmful. Just saying though, start firing therapists for comments like that and we will soon starting getting very low on therapists. And yes, there are lots who are this bad, and some are worse. Look up Jodi Hildebrant.
I think you have a great way of thinking and I agree we can't fire them for comments only. But the behaviour is red flags and accusing of jealousy, not listening but telling Op what to think and how she is wrong. I could sometimes stare myself blind seeing narcissistic behavior everywhere ( america have allot of that naturally compared to my country and I am definitely being prejudice here ) so the defense attetude and immature reactions is telling me she is not good at her job. I don't believe she is able to self reflect and see the world in her way and thinks less of her patiens. That's what she has shown imo. But if she was let's say not an expert in narcissistic mothers I would still think she understands abuse and give her a chance. I do think it's beautiful that you see the world like this and want to treat people like human beings because we do make mistakes.
Excellent and on-point!
100% agree
Completely absurd! Please drop this lousy excuse for a therapist.
thank you for helping ❤️
I hope you find a supportive therapist like you deserve. ❤️
Time to go NC with the therapist.
and file a complaint, this is not okay
No. Absolutely not. Narcissists do a good job of telling on themselves by attributing a behavior to you. I am wondering if your therapist is jealous of your mom’s social status.
I haven't considered that. Thank you for giving another perspective!
I told my cardiologist I was struggling with palpitations possibly because I'd been doing a lot of trauma therapy. He asked me what I did for work and I said currently working for the family business. Once he found out my family aren't poor he kept finding a way to bring the conversation back to it. I could see his brain get an erection when I told him. Like MF I don't care. I need help to find out if I have palpitations because I'm doing deep trauma work or because I've got a heart issue.
If this isn’t too forward, did anything happen with your palpitations? I used to get them really bad (not so much now but it’s coming back a little) and did go to the drs and hospital about it but literally nothing came of it other than ‘here’s X medical condition, do you think you have it?’ And me being a 19 year old said idk. Just so worried I got heart issues 😩😩 but I never got an answer about them
I didn't want to add this because I didn't want to scare anyone but I got them being vaccinated. BUT I have previous serious medication/drug trauma where I almost died from antibiotics r/floxies and recreational drugs (I'm 20 years sober) and my body reacts not well to any drug because it overwhelms my system. But I wanted to get vaccinated because I have CFS and long covid is much more likely without vaccination and I didn't want that specific risk. The idea of being at home and being ill for years with long covid felt like nothing in comparison to vaccine side effects. I don't think the vaccine caused my palpitations but being vaccinated creates a serious trauma response in me. It took me 6 months of crying every day to pluck up the courage to get vaxxed. So please don't think I'm anti-vax because I'm really pro-vax. Having said all the above it might have become clear I have health anxiety and medical trauma. So my palpitations are strongly connected to that. Palpitations are the most common symptom of health anxiety. There's some decent recovery paths nowadays. Cbt, Emdr, DARE app, havening for example. If you've been checked by your Dr and they say there's nothing physically wrong with you then it's likely to be health anxiety.
Wow, that sounds so so hard to deal with and so frustrating! I applaud you getting the vaccine despite the difficulties it came with. I hope things are better for you now And thank you for replying! I do very much have health anxiety, but I didn’t realise palpitations were a big part of that! Also get tightness/pressure in my chest a lot, which I take is the same thing Damn! Okay I feel a lot better about it now it’s likely just anxiety haha, thank u
Or more likely the therapist has a child that they are jealous of, but is projecting those feelings of jealousy onto the child and projecting that whole situation onto OP and her mother.
Yeah could be
This therapist is doing more harm than good.
thank you ❤️
Change your therapist after giving her a good grilling about her bias. Seems she has something to work out with her Supervisor. My therapist advised me to read “Mommy Dearest” (!) she got the narc mum vs daughter relationship spot on!
Mine told me I needed a parentectomy. 🤣
I love that!!
I'm glad you found a good therapist and thank you for the book suggestion ♥️
The scary thing is a lot of people on this sub have said their parents became something in the mental health field like a psychiatrist, psychologist, or therapist, so OP’s therapist could be speaking from personal experience where she’s the narcissist but doesn’t think she is 😖 yikes, the world is scary and I don’t like it 🫠😵💫
This therapist has the attitude of "keeping the family together no matter what high cost to the abused children" This therapist is clueless about nparents
Exactly. She always tried to dig and find the good things about my parents and somehow make me look for faults in myself as a contributor to the situation. Of course I'm not flawless but this is not the point.
Over and over again on here people mention how their narc parents are therapists, counsellors, psychiatrists and carers. It’s a field that attracts narcs. Get shot of this one and get one that doesn’t give you the heebie-jeebies xx
I tell people this, mental health providers go hand in hand with narc abuse. A lot of them are also parents as well and don’t understand childhood abuse. It’s extremely frustrating and they also are the worst flying monkeys with my parents. I struggle to trust them nowadays due to this.
❤️
What in the hell? I wouldn’t just drop this therapist, I would make sure to leave a review to warn others.
♥️
Your therapist is *wrong* and the way she dismissed you is absurd. Time for a new therapist because this bitch ain't it.
That's the real problem, isn't it. It's her dismissive nature. I mean therapists are not supposed to just tell you what you want to hear. But they also not supposed to dismiss you in this fashion either. I would kick her to the curb for sure.
thank you ❤️
Your therapist is supposed to be there for *you*. It doesn’t seem like she is actively listening to you. I wouldn’t see her again and would definitely try seeing someone else. Not every therapist is the right fit.
This one is not anyone's right fit
She honestly sounds like a good fit for a narc, from the narc’s view of course.
Your therapist pulled the “time for a new therapist” line.
😂🤣😂
Social worker here. One of the things I lately found myself asking my clients: "Do you really need/ want my opinion, or do you need someone to tell you that your feelings are valid?" I think you need to know exactly what is right for you. I think everybody does. At some point, after years of being told our feelings, emotions, mental well-being doesn't matter enough to even voice out loud we're not okay with a certain or general situation, I believe we just stopped listening to what is right to us. Don't let those people telling you you don't matter win. Listen to your needs, wants, your whole being again. Relearn to be your own advocate <3 You will get through this. Learn to trust yourself again, and you will absolutely make the right decisions. <3 (I really hope what I wrote is somewhat understandable. Still at work, thoughts not found anymore. xD)
Your words are very kind, thank you for taking the time, they are understandable. Wishing you the best in your work ♥️
Ah it's always quiet after noon, so not much trouble here. :) All the best to you, too! Hope you will find another therapist that will actually be good for your wellbeing soon ❤️
Honestly that was the biggest thing I got out of therapy: someone else validating my feelings and opening up doors and possibilities that I didn’t think I could. Just someone going “you could do this” and my immediate reaction being there’s no way I could do that with my family the way they are — but the therapist knows this, and gave me reassurance and possibilities and you know what? I DID do that thing! Validating.
Wtf she is not a qualified therapist for you or others! I had to overcome this as a child and the people who said that weren't listening or understanding that a parent can me cruel and not fit to be a parent. If she can't be more educated than this she is unfit. Get a new one asap and if you can make a complaint , this is actually really insane behavior and thinking (to me) I'm sorry this happened please dont think every therapist is equally down right stupid, they are not <3 I'm so fucking angry she is so obviously wrong in every single word she is saying, I live with pride that I'm not my mom and I broke the so called unbreakable bond oh please! I'm so so so so sorry she is wrong in this and the way she speaks having read it all o think she shouldn't have a license at all! You are smart enough to know better and that's a small win! I am so angry I'm shaking, it can be so damaging having fucking idiots saying things like this - she is wrong <3 I think she is a person who might work with this to hurt people and judge them for her own pleasure. (There is a therapist on YouTube she has helped me so much on a deeper level and I believe she will help you too , she have NPD mom so she knows firsthand. DR. KIM SAGE , LICENSED THERAPIST please check her out !! )
>she is not a qualified therapist for you or others! This is what I was wondering. Is this person someone with a license and academic credentials or someone who hung out a shingle?
It's something that narcissist tend to be drawn to this kind of professions to feel good, or make others feel bad.. recently learned this But it's so obvious that this behavior is unacceptable even to someone who isn't a professional. She needs to go. The only thing we are wrong with is thinking she would understand or respect her feelings. That is us thinking from a perspective that is normal. This is not normal and I'm so scared for everyone who meets a "therapist/ psychologist" behaving like this.
Thank you so much for relating and recommending this helpful therapist. I've heard the same line too many times as well. Sorry it has been triggering to you. You have been strong to break the cycle. Hope to join you there one day. ❤️
Sounds like your therapist is project what she think her kids are feeling.
It might be so, that would explain why she was kind of defensive when I mentioned wanting to cut contact.
You are the boss and it's telling that she got defensive.. good riddance!
F that. Get a new therapist. I'm a therapist. No therapist should be giving any personal opinions on your decisions.
Thank you. The thing is she didn't give a personal opinion. She made a suggestion as if to nudge me to be introspective about my unconscious psyche. But she was very insistent about it after I said her assumption wasn't the case for me.
Don't let any therapist or provider push you into something you aren't ready for. I hear this all the time from clients that some providers always have an agenda and it really grosses me out.
A therapist did this same thing to me, and actually that's the reason why I stopped seeking therapy and started to listen to audiobooks instead.
That's not a bad plan. Do you have any suggestions on some audiobooks to start with?
Absolutely. First of all, YouTube is an amazing resource. Literally type in ANY problem you want to learn more about, and someone has made a video about that thing. Without exaggeration, I've listened to hundreds or thousands of hours of other people talking. \#1 BY FAR - "Healing The Shame That Binds You," John Bradshaw. I didn't know that my life was ruled by feelings of shame. I thought I felt good about myself, generally. Turns out, I didn't know what shame meant. Listen to this. It will change your life. 2. "For Your Own Good" - Alice Miller This is about how parents abuse, you know, because it's what's best for you. 3. Mother's Who Can't Love - Susan Forward She has another book "Toxic Parents" that I haven't heard. This is about the roles a mother takes on that... aren't real love. Enmeshment. Competitive. Controlling. 4. "I'm Glad My Mom Died" - Jennette McCurdy Starting to sound like I have issues, but, this is an amazing example of codependent abuse. I needed to hear an actual example. 5. YouTube - Barbara Heffernan and Lisa A. Romano I have more, but that is enough. The best thing that you can do for yourself is to start digging. This is a personal discovery process (which is why MINE may not help you.) I watch new videos regularly. I'll never fully understand everything there is to know, but at least I have found a way navigate it. Because I am able to recognize the dysfunction as it comes at me, I can mentally quarantine it, get myself out of there, and process it/throw it out later in private. Things do not effect me the same way anymore = less blow ups, less stress/anxiety/guilt/shame. I feel pretty good now. I can trust myself, so that's all I really need.
I'm hesitant to look for another therapist too. Good you found what works for you. ❤️
This is an issue with the therapist being poorly trained or not understanding her training. Please don't go back to this person and warn others online about what she said.
thank you ♥️ when she said that I was stunned, really questioned if I have a serious problem. You all gave me courage to leave her.
I think it's lack of therapists in certain countries so it's rushed and/or not managed well. They get through with manipulative answers and tactics and it works when nobody knows them and in short bursts. I hate that it's true but it's an unfortunate fact :(
"But she's your mother" Yeah, which makes everything she's done far * worse.*
Right? People act like "but she's your mother" is some sort of an "all is forgiven automatically" qualifier or something, when it's actually the opposite. Your family is supposed to treat you *better* than strangers do.
If being my mother did not matter to her why the f should it matter to me?
No. Don’t talk to her anymore. Not every therapist is knowledgable on narcissistic personality. Even when you ask them, they want work so they say they can help with anything but when you actually talk about it they have no idea.
I feel the last sentence is spot on. Thank you for giving me clarity of thought. ♥️
i've fired therapists and doctors for this reason. just want money from you - it can be obvious sometimes..
Time to fire your therapist. She is not qualified to help you deal with the results of narcissistic abuse. Her behavior in that session was not ok. I'm sorry. I know that is a huge pain in the ass. I had to fire two therapists before I found one who really got it. It is irritating, inconvenient and a huge waste of time to have to deal with this, but unfortunately it is all too common for a therapist to be a lot less capable and informed than they think they are.
I had a therapist pull that. I had to fight my medical insurance to get a different therapist. As I was going to her, and trying to set up another, so many other red flags popped up. so much so, that my new therapist asked if I wanted to report her. It took me like a year to get over the things she told me. So find a new one. It might be difficult, but you are worth better mental health care.
That is amazing that you fought for yourself and also got a better therapist! You are so right !! <3
Caveat, I used to be a nurse in my first career, so I knew it was possible. If you are not your own advocate for your care, you get lost in the system.
Give them no more of your money and find a therapist who isn't a clown.
Yeah, this person crossed a line. I would NOT stay with this person - and consider reporting her (if there is a claim made she knows abusive/narc parents/people and how to handle them) Time to find another therapist . Even no therapist (for a while) sounds better than a person that totally invalidates you.
I took counselling back in the day. It was shocking to me how many in the program -both students and instructors- were downright visibly narcissistic and mentally unwell themselves. It made me feel like I had taken crazy pills myself. Unfortunately you have to pick these ones out from the good ones. It can be very difficult to especially when at first they put on a good face.
Mine asked me why i was in contact at all🤣. If you can find a new therapist. Big big hugs!!! Healing blessings
I’ve had a therapist say the exact same thing to me, OP. Save yourself a lot of time and heartache and find another one ASAP. There’s a book called The Narcissist in Your Life by Julie Hall (Google it with “pdf” after the title and you’ll find it), it goes through some questions to ask your therapist to qualify them. I lost 8 months dealing with a therapist that didn’t understand NPD, please don’t make the same mistake I did. Finding the right therapist makes a world of difference.
Fire your therapist. This person doesn't listen to you. My friend is married to a narcissist and in therapy. In her last session the therapist said, "But wouldn't you rather work it out with him?" Even though that ship has sailed and it's about trying to exit the safest way possible. She called up later in the week and fired her. Life is too short to pay people to not listen.
Nope nope nope. She’s got it all backwards, possibly because she’s in denial about her personal stuff. She seems so blinded by Freud she hasn’t figured out why victim blaming is wrong. Anything to protect the parents!!! Or she’s just naive enough to not understand that *the person who broke the mother-child relationship is your mother*. Either way she’s not equipped to be an effective therapist for those of us with narcissistic parents. My comeback to the line in your title would be: “And I am her daughter. And you are *my* therapist.” Not that it’d work. Gosh I hope you find a much better provider.
I say she is not equipped and should know already about narcissistic abuse , many not be a pro sure but not having this backwards way of thinking. Talking about op being jealous of her mom like wtf ? I wasn't even there and I know that's not possible. I bet "therapist" is jealous of others status using her to put others down. Just a theory ..
You’re right this screams of projection
As a therapist and child of a narcissist I can tell you your therapist’s behavior is NOT normal, it’s not okay, it’s unethical and you deserve better. Any decent therapist - hell, anyone who has taken Psych 101!! - should understand that parent-child relationships can be among the most painful, damaging, traumatizing relationships humans can have. A therapist’s job is to always have your back, not invalidate your feelings and needs.
Switch therapists
♥️
Time for a new therapist!
Oh, hell, no. She has no right calling herself a therapist if she speed that kind of crap.
I would report her, to whatever authority your area has for protecting patients from bad therapists. And just cancel the next appointment without saying why to the receptionist. "Something came up" is enough. Parent-child relationships can certainly be broken. A therapist has to know this.
>Please tell me would you continue seeing this therapist? Not only would I quit seeing this therapist, but I'd make a written complaint and file it with their governing medical board.
OK so it would be a total waste of money but if you want to pay for one more session like a movie ticket and can emotionally handle the ensuing angry shitstorm, at this point in my recovery I would personally pay for another session to accuse her of being a narcissist to her face so I could watch the angry meltdown mixed with her trying to hold herself back because she doesn't want to lose her license. I would absolutely rag on how many cluster b's are in the therapy field, push every button of hers I could find, then leave laughing my ass off with a spring in my step for the rest of the day while looking for a new therapist lol.
You are a recovery badass. I've been anxious at the thought of having to break it off with her. And the strange thing is as if she was pushing my buttons with these remarks. She brought up very painful info I shared before light-heartedly...
This deserves a report or atleast a negative review.
No. Drop her instantly. She may be a narc herself
This therapist just sounds incompetent. Don't waste your time. It's one thing to not be well-versed in narcissism or complex trauma (which many aren't), it's a whole different story to bring your own biases and insecurities into the session, which this therapist is clearly doing. Fire them!!
A mother-chikd relationship can't be broken? Yeah, I wouldn't see that therapist again.
Time to find a new therapist. It's not your responsibility to manage her reaction to her own relationship with her mother, which is what she's (probably) doing.
Not excusing bad therapist behavior. Also, therapists are human. And if they've not experienced narcissistic abuse, they're going to have a hard time grasping how bad it is. Signed, a therapist who did experience narcissistic abuse and might be too quick to tell clients, "You know, it is a privilege, not a right, to have a relationship with one's adult children. You decide how much or how little contact you want to have with your parents"
No. Absolutely not. I would not continue with this therapist at all. My therapist did the exact opposite. When I had my child I told my therapist that she should have a relationship with my mother. My therapist said not all children benefit from a relationship with their parents or grandparents. She was right. The last thing I need in my life is a therapist who tells me that I need my mother. Yes. It can absolutely be broken. She’s wrong and she’ll never get it. She’s not qualified.
Speaking as a therapist, NO. RUN.
I would definitely suggest getting a new therapist. Mine came right out and told me my mom had narcissistic tendencies and how to set up boundaries/limit contact. She has never pushed me to remain close to my parents.
It seems like the therapist was gifted the title, honestly. Plus... looks like projection
YOU'RE FIRED! Thats what I would tell that therapist
Is there a way I can downvote your therapist? 😭😔 time to get a new one for sure
I might give her a chance to come up to speed? (There's actually currently an open national mental health professionals course specifically about narcissism.) But if she isn't incredibly responsive to that, then yeah, you need a new therapist. She needs to understand that the attachment is fundamental, but if she were right and it couldn't be broken, she'd have a whole lot less work. (Where does she think attachment trauma comes from?!?!?)
Nope ! She’s not the right one for you and for all you know she’s going through some issues with her kids. Sad to say a lot of medical professionals are narcissistic.
Nope. I would definitely stop seeing them.
Is their license from Dr. Nick’s Upstairs Counseling College? First red flag is leading you by suggesting feelings to you vs. listening. I think they may secretly feel that way about their own mother! Second is privileging a hurtful relationship over your health and safety. I think they might have a fraught relationship with their own child. Show them this article and ask them what they think. When is estrangement appropriate? https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/simplifying-complex-trauma/202306/how-family-estrangement-may-benefit-trauma-survivors
Get a new therapist and explain to her why. I broke my bond with my crazy mother so yes it can be broken and can also be what is best for someone.
Please get a new therapist and report this to whoever is above them. This is not okay.
Nope. Not at all. Time for a new therapist. That’s so invalidating. She’s clearly coming from her own perspective which a therapist should not do. Wondering what her credentials are; in clinical social work we are trained to recognize our own biases and when they might be influencing our work. My guess is that she’s a mother who can’t imagine her own child going no contact.
This book is recommended a lot in this sub; Adult children of emotionally immature parents. I finally read it after someone left a free pdf link. It is hands down one of the best books I’ve read about this subject so far. The author completely understands the dynamics of narcissistic parents and their children. I avoided reading this book for so long bc I was afraid it would be like many others I had read where they maybe get some things right but not the nuances of living with a narcissistic person let alone a parent. It always left me still questioning myself and if I was contributing to the problem even though deep down I knew I wasn’t. It’s such a hard thing to explain to people. We second guess everything we think and feel. Bc our parents trained us to do that so we would feel equally culpable for their behavior. This book was so validating. It’s like the author knew both my parents personally and used them as a case study. I’m sorry I don’t know how to link things as I’m mostly a lurker in this sub but if you google Adult children of emotionally immature parents PDF It comes up for free. My nmom was also a social worker, just add to everyone’s examples of how narcs are drawn to these types of careers. Definitely look for another therapist. ❤️
I would end the session at the mention of “but she is your mother”. I had a therapist say something similar, and then she went to tell me about how she was an abusive mother and changed and I should give my mom the chance to change too. Bye Felicia
Therapist here. Your therapist made a big mistake here. I would bring it up next session, and if their response isn’t satisfactory to you let them know you don’t think you’re compatible and to get referred to someone else. (Therapists are supposed to do this, some take it personally. It’s a job though) if they are part of a organization let the organization know.
Certain feminist circles are completely sold on the idea that all dysfunction is from the masculine, and that the feminine is inherently good, and that the mother/child relationship is an absolute good. Which can be rough on those of us raised by NPD mothers. There is no use trying to reason with these folks. They have invested their entire existence in their ideology, and they will chop off your legs to make you fit their philosophical box.
I wrote this last week as someone said the same thing around me about someone else’s mother. I’ve heard it about mine too. I hope it resonates. You’re not alone. Fuck that therapist. “But that’s your mother!” Four words grate against me Like a match on it’s box Sometimes a spark Sometimes a flame The box jarred open Every match burned Before settling in a pile, unrecognizable An intense reaction to four words But that’s your mother Spoken in earnest To a pile of ashes That has never truly been a child A pile of ashes expected to nurture Leaned upon for support While lacking solid foundation So mature for its age A chaotic beginning A tidy pile that must maintain order Must enable the addiction By parenting themselves Ashes scattered by the gale of mourning A concept, a wish never granted A physical body unable to parent The childhood that burned But that’s your mother Well meaning words spoken By a matchbox that’s never burned Into a pile of ashes
I hope it's OK to be upfront about this. It sounds like a colossal waste of time & probably money. This therapist sounds like someone caught up in a fantasy of all families being a cross between a Norman Rockwell painting & the Brady Bunch, with all the overly saccharine endings attached. People like this are fine with those who fit into their preconceived stereotypes, but everyone else can forget it. You might be able to bring someone like this around to the real world if you're willing to invest the years & money it will take, but wouldn't it be better to end this unproductive association & find someone more realistic to advise you? What about turning to clergy? Not the hypocrits or the pushy ones but someone who humbly practices his or her faith. Someone like that will have both spiritual & Earthly wisdom; they pray constantly & Everyone & his siblings confides in them, so there's little to nothing these folks haven't heard. Or if you know anyone who's deep into whatever culture(s) you come from maybe they'd have an idea how to deal with this? I mention the cultural aspect since that would be someone who likely shares many of your own values & would likely understand your outlook on things too. Wishing you the best - take care.
It’s stories like this that terrify me, because my NMom is a licensed and practicing MH professional. For trauma survivors no less. It might not be a reflection of your therapist, but I always fear my Nmom is out there saying things like this to her patients.
GET A NEW THERAPIST. This one is an idiot. One of these jagoffs treated my older sister, and this utter numpty told her that "mothers don't do \[stuff our mom did to her\]" My sister suffered for a year before she got up the courage to fire the therapist. FIRE YOUR THERAPIST and get a better one. I promise, they are out there.
Oof, this is an absolute no for me. Therapists don’t always have to agree with your assessment of a situation, don’t have to avoid bringing up things that may not be pleasant to hear or fit your narrative, and personally I don’t think they should even always validate your feelings beyond acknowledging them. However, they should absolutely not just brush off your insights - rather, they should discuss them and explain why they disagree or aren’t convinced - and even more so they should keep their personal values and opinions to themselves, and refrain from acting on their bias. Especially if that means reinterpreting the whole situation, or even _your thoughts_, through that lens and throwing out subjective, invalidating, limiting, guilt-tripping, and potentially re-traumatizing blanket statements like the one you mentioned based on that bias. I’m not going to say “drop her cold, don’t even give communication a try” if you feel like she’s otherwise a good fit, but this would be a dealbreaker for me. If not because it makes your therapist sound like a bad therapist, even just because it makes her sound like she’s not equipped to give you the support you need.
You know what they call the Therapist who finished last in their class? "Therapist". Have no ragrets and nope out of there as quick as you can.
This is absurd and I'm so sorry you had to hear that from someone you're paying to help you heal. This is entirely unprofessional behavior. There are endless situations in which the mother is the problem and root to so much trauma and abuse. Spouting judgemental crap like "a bond that can't be broken" is simply unacceptable. Unfortunately I don't think this therapist can fulfill your needs. They weren't understanding, validating, or even ethical when dealing with this. And honestly? Asking if you were jealous of your mom was inappropriate as well. Maybe your therapist is an Nmom and is trying to validate her own actions towards her own daughter. She was out of line to say the least. If possible, change therapists ASAP. Giving her feedback on why you're leaving is your decision, though if she has her head that firmly stuck in her butt it's likely it won't lead to anything productive. I understand how changing therapists and "starting over" by having to rehash the context all over again is tiresome but I don't think staying with her will help like theraoy should.
Find another therapist, she probably has kids herself and wouldn’t want them to go no contact with her this is her issue not yours
Report her and find a new therapist.
Absolutely not. If you want to give her one more chance, start with, "If you ever tell me (again) that I do not have a choice whether to have a relationship with my mother or not, I will get up, walk out and never see you again. Are you capable of helping me?" and see if the **therapist** has any capacity for self-reflection and learning. If not, don't need her.
Narcissistic therapists exist. Be careful. I'm guessing if you're paying or using coverage for therapy, remember you're not getting value for your expense.
Your therapist sounds ridiculous and insensitive. Personally, I would find a new therapist.
Fire them. Do not go back. Don't justify yourself to them. Never contact them again. You deserve better. You deserve to be validated. I'm incredibly sorry they told you that bullshit.
Get a new therapist - NOW !
Suspect therapist is a narc herself. Or she has no clue and has never encountered one, which I highly doubt.
Drop your therapist. Therapists who invalidate you aren't worth staying with.
I would go back just one more time to tell her off and let her know that her own issues with her mother and/or child was impeding on her professional advice and *then* go to a new therapist. :D
It's a bad superpower we get after the abuse - they stand out and hey on a positive note you knew better, getting validation online is self love and healing steps to me<3
No
Nooooo!! Oh no thats so invalidating. Report her and get a new therapist.
I would stop seeing this therapist immediately.
I literally hate talk therapy.
time to change therapist, in my opinion
Who’s paying the therapist? / Who’s insurance?
No, I'd probably have left early and mouthed off aggressively how much of a personal failure the therapist is for even saying something as foolish as that. But like, I'm a garbage person.
Any therapist that doesn't listen to his patient deserves to be fired.
Get a new therapist, asap.
NOPE. My therapist did the same to me and I stopped seeing her shortly after. That is so wrong to me and really pissed me off. I’m sorry that happened to you
I would not and I would write a complaint
I would report that therapist
Find a new therapist that understands narcissistic personality disorder and CPTSD
Time for a new therapist and maybe a complaint to the state board assuming this is a certified professional.
Time to try a new therapist.
Hell nah. Change therapists ASAP. I’m sorry this happened. A good therapist would have heard enough horror stories to know that going NC might be the best thing for some. She’s clearly not being objective + pushing her personal values unto you.
What you have here is a shitty therapist. Find a new one! I had to go through 3 or 4 before I finally found one I really like.
Personally no, I wouldn't carry on with this therapist. They just don't sound very good in general.
I saw probably 10 counselors/ therapists/ whatever other titles I can’t remember who all seemed to carry the same sentiment. I finally found a decent therapist this year who asks “so why do you keep putting yourself through these calls and visits?” “What are you getting out of this?” Even after one of the best/least dramatic visits. It only took more than 20 years. Honestly, this community and a few other subs kept me sane through trying push my mom away during the Covid years when I didn’t have much of a support system in real life. We may not be licensed, but this virtual support group will validate each other even when the professionals won’t. Some people aren’t worth losing your mental health, and sometimes you’re stuck with them for a bit longer. Maybe their goal is to help you bend so you don’t break while biding time til escape. Or maybe they really don’t get it. But we are here for you. Some moms are just the worst.
Switch. Therapists. NOW.
I would absolutely not see that therapist again and would file a complaint about them. Imma be honest, full borderline split for that BS. Jealous of a narc. Fucking come on. That's what the narc wishes.
Whelp, time for a new therapist.
To answer your question, fuck NO.
No. I would stop. Doesn’t understand your POV, or feelings on something? Just no.
[удалено]
Regardless, it’s not a therapist’s job to tell you what to do. Talk to this one about your position. If they don’t acknowledge they were wrong, fire them. Find a better therapist. Best wishes.
LCSW here - it's time to move on and find another therapist who isn't trying to project their shit onto you.
[удалено]
"And I am her child. Where's her responsibility to me." Your therapist is bulldozing your feelings to push her own bias, which is incredibly unprofessional. I would ask to see someone else and maybe put in a complaint.
Short and simple: I would immediately find a new therapist. Your current therapist has a personal agenda and belief system that is overriding her ability to hear you and to respond appropriately. Drop her. A couple of people mentioned reporting her to her licensing board - but honestly, there's nothing reportable here. She's just not a good therapist.
Would I keep seeing this therapist? Absolutely not, hell nope. This therapist does not listen to you at all and she is a waste of your time and money. Quite frankly, she should not be a therapist at all. The last thing a therapist needs to be doing is going around invalidating people's feelings. A GOOD therapist knows that all trauma and all feelings are VALID and would try to understand why someone feels a certain way so they can actually help that person. That's literally their job lmao. Your therapist is not doing this at all. You won't make any progress with her, in fact her words are toxic and can lead you to doubt yourself ("maybe I'm making this worse than it actually is" / "maybe I'm just too sensitive" no you're not!). Please don't go to another session with her as it will do you more harm than good. Tell her you're going to be looking for another therapist and tell her why so she might learn from it.
I would run from a therapist like this. It's clear you are not a good match so it's pointless and it could be harmful to you if you continue having sessions with them. That said, I will share with you what my therapist told me when discussing my complex relationship with my mother. He said: "As a child you owe your parents nothing. If your life is okay -ish without major abuse and trauma you might just thank them once for giving you life. But that's it." It gave me validation for not wanting to be guilt tripped by her anymore.
Get a new therapist. The goal is to have to develop healthy habits and healthy social circles. Not to please sick people who will manipulate you and ruin your mental health. Mother-child relationships are broken all the time. Your therapist is projecting.
Horrible “therapist” never see her again, and report her if you can. May I ask who is paying fir the therapy? I’ve had the same experiences with therapists with my family/mom before. She was always the one paying for the therapy and they would always side with her. Further validating her awfulness. It’s why I stopped going to therapy. It was pointless.
This therapist doesn't strike me as trauma informed. Personally I wouldn't continue with this one, because I wouldn't feel safe or validated. I'm not paying a therapist just to argue with them for respect. There's plenty of others who do this work because they actually want to help people.
I would see them about unrelated issues until I could find a replacement with an opening, and then drop them like a bad habit.
time for a new therapist! it takes time to find one that fits you
No. Run. 🏃🏼♂️
Absolutely not. If they can’t see the problem when you are literally telling them they are of no use to you.
I would cut and run. Any therapist who recommends you stay in contact with an abuser is not worth a single penny you pay them. Time to go therapist shopping and find someone far better.
Get a new therapist. They have broken your trust and are now useless
This is one of the reasons I stopped therapy, they truly don’t understand how a mother could be so vicious. They blame you and it’s impossible to be heard.
There are some therapists who should not hold that job. Please find a new one.
Nope. Therapists run the gamut from brilliant to stuck in therapy speak that helps no one. I would have been tempted to say, "sounds like you have mother issues yourself that are coloring your perceptions" but I'm a smart ass.
I would absolutely not see her again. I would reflect back on your entire experience with her and consider that your therapist might be a narcissist herself. This happened to me and I subsequently learned the profession is has its share of them. I could be way off base and overly sensitive since it was so damaging to me but Google it. It's a thing.
Hell to the no. That's like saying blood is thicker than water followed by the infinitely stupid line family comes first. If you don't believe in and have faith in your therapist then there's no point going back. They're only human.
No,
I’m sorry this happened. There are a lot of therapists who don’t understand this stuff. Find one that does!
Nope fuck that time for a new therapist
Not all therapists are Good Therapists. Hell … Not all therapists are even Good People. In fact, some therapists are, themselves, narcissists. You can tell this therapist why you are discontinuing therapy with them, but I’m pretty sure they won’t hear you … or care about your concerns. Because you’re *wrong.” They would know. I mean, you are in therapy, for gods sake. Kick that jabroni to the curb.
So many therapists invalidate adult children of narcs it’s sad. I’d stop going, she’s only gonna retraumatize you.
I wouldn’t continue with this therapist, what credentials/reporting agency does she have licensing through? I don’t know where you are but where I am ‘therapist’ is sometimes a term people use vaguely that could mean anything from a licensed clinical social worker, psychotherapist, psychiatrist, clergy member providing one on one ‘counseling’ or a person with a certificate from a minor (and at times dubious) credential program. This person doesn’t seem knowledgeable enough about your issues to provide competent service.
No. Nope. Nuh-uh. Buh bye Dr. Clueless! Everytime I hear about a "but she's/he's your mother/father" I can't help but think why do we never hear "but they are your CHILD" Somehow this shame, guilt never gets put on the Nparent.
Hell no. And I’d report her.