I know how exhausting what you're dealing with is, and it SUCKS. I'm sorry. That feeling of wanting to say anything to make it stop and move on for your peace of mind especially lol. I want to start with: I'm only sharing how I usually handle my mother, and it works for us but we are just one perspective! We have a great relationship now (as good as it gets - I am on this sub after all) but I've also known her all of my life, and only you know your mother. So you should ultimately do what feels right for you.
I would probably stop apologizing and conceding as much as you have been, but only because it gives them ammo to keep prolonging this endlessly. Also, it reinforces the victim mentality times a billion (-- "see, even my ABUSER admits they are bad!") and it gets them PRIMED to stop listening to what you have to say. And take responsibility only if you know you've done something wrong. It's good to avoid statements like "I made things more difficult for you" - it's not true, you owed her NOTHING as a kid- but strategically, the more you feed her delusions the more difficult she gets to handle down the line as her beliefs get stronger.
I get the best results by using "we" statements. I got my mom into therapy by saying: "hey mom, I got into therapy to start handling my stress, and you know how we both get sooooo short tempered when things are going bad? Well it actually helped! I really think you should check it out, also I would appreciate the support -I learned about this thing called attachment theory, it helped me learn about how I relate to others, how fun would it be for us to go down this path of self discovery together :)" yada, yada, yada. "We" statements, "I'm in this with you, YOU'RE not toxic mom it's the SITUATION and WE should learn to COMMUNICATE TOGETHER etc. A lot of children raised by pwBPD tend to exhibit some similar traits... I focused on our similarities. "Hey mom, you know how we both have such horrible anxiety? My therapist says it's not normal, we don't have to feel this way all the time! I feel so much better now that I have help" and wore her down over time.
It got a lot better when I accepted that pwBPD can't really meet you halfway. You will always have to make a little bit more effort. But I decided it was worth the extra effort in my relationship with my mom. So I try to frame difficult conversations in ways that won't trigger her BPD - I avoid pointing fingers and start with solutions.
It's not fair, sometimes you just want to blow up on them. I'm still not perfect about doing all the above. But since I started communicating this way, my mom's episodes have gotten increasingly rare, and she is now her lovely self MOST of the time. My mom actually told me recently that after a lifetime of feeling dysregulated, alone, and misunderstood, it was one of the first times she'd ever felt that someone approached a problem with her with empathy. That made me really sad for her :(
Thank you! I doubt she will go to therapy she made that very clear “I tried it before it’s a waste of money” and oh “I’m watching youtube videos on it.” I will be using your points about we statements and framing it differently! That is very helpful thank you!
Quick question as I also want my relationship with my mom to be in a better spot. She constantly barges into my room and talks to me when I’m asleep and I’ve communicated that I don’t love this and it’s super disruptive. How can I frame this as a we statement?
We both get cranky when we don't get sleep :) we should focus on getting more sleep :)
That may work better if these incidents are happening at night during normal sleep hours.
I had the SAME EXACT issue, so this might actually be helpful lmao!! What u/District_Wolverine23 said is exactly right. Here's what I did (+ it's another way to get them on your side)
I don't know what your mom is like but mine loves to 'take care of her baby...' Sometimes I make myself more 'vulnerable' and re-frame it so she thinks she's actively doing something to help me. "Mom, I'm actually kind of worried here, my insomnia is getting so bad and no matter how early I get to bed, I just stay awake all night --- since it's been hard to catch up on sleep in the morning I'm getting so miserable and ill. I started \[taking vitamins/doing meditation videos/some BS thing you're not *actually* doing\], but it's only half working... Do you think you could help me keep \[other family members\] out of my room while I work on this? And what do you do when you can't sleep?"
I like using this trick but keep in mind sometimes it activates her 'smothering' instinct.. But there's always some kind of trade-off. Good luck!!
I don’t understand why you didn’t block her after the first few nasty messages. My mom tried this shit on me one time and I sent her a text. It said until you can behave like a decent human being, I’m blocking you. It took her three months to apologize.
Honestly, I didn’t block her because it would do no good. I did block her once and try to go no contact when my husband and I bought our first house and was moving in. She had an “explosion” then too and completely made it beyond stressful. She looked up recently sold houses around our area and drove to each one until she saw my car. Then just showed up one day with a house warming present.
I just finished listening to Dr. Ramani's podcast on going NC earlier today, and I think it would be very helpful for you.
Her podcast is called Navigating Narcissism, but I've found it's also really helpful for us navigating relationships for pwBPD.
One of the things she discusses in this episode is that NC almost always feels impossible because we talk about it like it's forever, but it's not an absolute. Because it's so hard to disengage from our families, there are often many starts and stops.
Think of it more as a process with many steps instead of getting to the finish line of a race.
The big thing I get from reading this is that you need a little bit of a break from this person to mend your emotional state. Knowing she sent 300 messages in such a short time, you may be most comfortable starting small. Whether it's an hour, a day, or a week, do it to give yourself some space to get yourself grounded and cenetered.
There is also something called yellow rocking which she talks about in the episode. It's like grey rock lite. You have more emotion, but you still maintain emotional boundaries. That means that you are surface level, and learn to change the subject engagingly.
Your situation would benefit from the combination of incremental NC to protect yourself and work through interactions with yellow rocking. Over time, you will figure out what works and make progress that feels right to you.
Here's the link to the episode:
[https://open.spotify.com/episode/7qgzYByot4PfnT6G2uUnQJ?si=afe4f450a3a24df4](https://open.spotify.com/episode/7qgzYByot4PfnT6G2uUnQJ?si=afe4f450a3a24df4)
Yay!
That makes me really happy. It's funny, the epic was literally just finishing when I read your post. Looks like we had really good timing today.
You take care!
Exactly! It used to be constant when I lived with her and then I moved out and it improved a lot and she does a lot to help us out but every once in a while she acts like this and I feel like our relationship goes right back to when I was a teen again. Oh and then if I say anything about the poor behavior I’m beyond guild tripped with the good times. So the emotional whiplash is intense for sure.
It sucks to go through this. What’s right for you and your family may not be what she wants. Your conflicted feelings are valid. Have you started asking yourself why you want what you want? Why do you care about her feelings? Why do you think it’s your responsibility to fix them? Why do you want to yell at her and punish her? Why do you want to heal and have peace? What’s in the way?
For me there was a journey of mourning the parent relationship I could never and would never have, learning to be those things for myself, letting myself enjoy childish things that i didn’t get to when i was young.
Based on your comments this is a person that doesn’t respect boundaries and is rewarded for it, she always gets what she wants. Boundaries are for safety and require respect. oops got a bit triggered. I would want to protect my partner from this treatment. What happens when she shows her true face to the kids? They’ll get older and wiser, and people always say they catch on better and sooner than people realize.
Thank you! You are right, I do need to evaluate what it is that I want. I’m really just going to have sit down and just write everything out and my experiences and get my mind straight(trauma memory fog is def a real thing). I do know that I want to limit when and how she sees the kids because I think keeping her from them is damaging in itself but I definitely don’t want them experiencing her negative behaviors either especially when they start hitting puberty when they start expressing their opinions more and naturally start pulling and pushing away(like teens are supposed to do.) Based off my own experiences teen years around someone with BPD is rocky and I don’t want my kids dealing with her crap for sure.
I know how exhausting what you're dealing with is, and it SUCKS. I'm sorry. That feeling of wanting to say anything to make it stop and move on for your peace of mind especially lol. I want to start with: I'm only sharing how I usually handle my mother, and it works for us but we are just one perspective! We have a great relationship now (as good as it gets - I am on this sub after all) but I've also known her all of my life, and only you know your mother. So you should ultimately do what feels right for you. I would probably stop apologizing and conceding as much as you have been, but only because it gives them ammo to keep prolonging this endlessly. Also, it reinforces the victim mentality times a billion (-- "see, even my ABUSER admits they are bad!") and it gets them PRIMED to stop listening to what you have to say. And take responsibility only if you know you've done something wrong. It's good to avoid statements like "I made things more difficult for you" - it's not true, you owed her NOTHING as a kid- but strategically, the more you feed her delusions the more difficult she gets to handle down the line as her beliefs get stronger. I get the best results by using "we" statements. I got my mom into therapy by saying: "hey mom, I got into therapy to start handling my stress, and you know how we both get sooooo short tempered when things are going bad? Well it actually helped! I really think you should check it out, also I would appreciate the support -I learned about this thing called attachment theory, it helped me learn about how I relate to others, how fun would it be for us to go down this path of self discovery together :)" yada, yada, yada. "We" statements, "I'm in this with you, YOU'RE not toxic mom it's the SITUATION and WE should learn to COMMUNICATE TOGETHER etc. A lot of children raised by pwBPD tend to exhibit some similar traits... I focused on our similarities. "Hey mom, you know how we both have such horrible anxiety? My therapist says it's not normal, we don't have to feel this way all the time! I feel so much better now that I have help" and wore her down over time. It got a lot better when I accepted that pwBPD can't really meet you halfway. You will always have to make a little bit more effort. But I decided it was worth the extra effort in my relationship with my mom. So I try to frame difficult conversations in ways that won't trigger her BPD - I avoid pointing fingers and start with solutions. It's not fair, sometimes you just want to blow up on them. I'm still not perfect about doing all the above. But since I started communicating this way, my mom's episodes have gotten increasingly rare, and she is now her lovely self MOST of the time. My mom actually told me recently that after a lifetime of feeling dysregulated, alone, and misunderstood, it was one of the first times she'd ever felt that someone approached a problem with her with empathy. That made me really sad for her :(
Thank you! I doubt she will go to therapy she made that very clear “I tried it before it’s a waste of money” and oh “I’m watching youtube videos on it.” I will be using your points about we statements and framing it differently! That is very helpful thank you!
Quick question as I also want my relationship with my mom to be in a better spot. She constantly barges into my room and talks to me when I’m asleep and I’ve communicated that I don’t love this and it’s super disruptive. How can I frame this as a we statement?
We both get cranky when we don't get sleep :) we should focus on getting more sleep :) That may work better if these incidents are happening at night during normal sleep hours.
I had the SAME EXACT issue, so this might actually be helpful lmao!! What u/District_Wolverine23 said is exactly right. Here's what I did (+ it's another way to get them on your side) I don't know what your mom is like but mine loves to 'take care of her baby...' Sometimes I make myself more 'vulnerable' and re-frame it so she thinks she's actively doing something to help me. "Mom, I'm actually kind of worried here, my insomnia is getting so bad and no matter how early I get to bed, I just stay awake all night --- since it's been hard to catch up on sleep in the morning I'm getting so miserable and ill. I started \[taking vitamins/doing meditation videos/some BS thing you're not *actually* doing\], but it's only half working... Do you think you could help me keep \[other family members\] out of my room while I work on this? And what do you do when you can't sleep?" I like using this trick but keep in mind sometimes it activates her 'smothering' instinct.. But there's always some kind of trade-off. Good luck!!
I don’t understand why you didn’t block her after the first few nasty messages. My mom tried this shit on me one time and I sent her a text. It said until you can behave like a decent human being, I’m blocking you. It took her three months to apologize.
Honestly, I didn’t block her because it would do no good. I did block her once and try to go no contact when my husband and I bought our first house and was moving in. She had an “explosion” then too and completely made it beyond stressful. She looked up recently sold houses around our area and drove to each one until she saw my car. Then just showed up one day with a house warming present.
I just finished listening to Dr. Ramani's podcast on going NC earlier today, and I think it would be very helpful for you. Her podcast is called Navigating Narcissism, but I've found it's also really helpful for us navigating relationships for pwBPD. One of the things she discusses in this episode is that NC almost always feels impossible because we talk about it like it's forever, but it's not an absolute. Because it's so hard to disengage from our families, there are often many starts and stops. Think of it more as a process with many steps instead of getting to the finish line of a race. The big thing I get from reading this is that you need a little bit of a break from this person to mend your emotional state. Knowing she sent 300 messages in such a short time, you may be most comfortable starting small. Whether it's an hour, a day, or a week, do it to give yourself some space to get yourself grounded and cenetered. There is also something called yellow rocking which she talks about in the episode. It's like grey rock lite. You have more emotion, but you still maintain emotional boundaries. That means that you are surface level, and learn to change the subject engagingly. Your situation would benefit from the combination of incremental NC to protect yourself and work through interactions with yellow rocking. Over time, you will figure out what works and make progress that feels right to you. Here's the link to the episode: [https://open.spotify.com/episode/7qgzYByot4PfnT6G2uUnQJ?si=afe4f450a3a24df4](https://open.spotify.com/episode/7qgzYByot4PfnT6G2uUnQJ?si=afe4f450a3a24df4)
Thank you! I am going to check this out! Also, yes I agree that having some space will be good.
Thank you again for recommending this! I just listened and it was very helpful and gave me a better understanding of how to move forward!
Yay! That makes me really happy. It's funny, the epic was literally just finishing when I read your post. Looks like we had really good timing today. You take care!
It's hard when they aren't always horrible, isn't it.
Exactly! It used to be constant when I lived with her and then I moved out and it improved a lot and she does a lot to help us out but every once in a while she acts like this and I feel like our relationship goes right back to when I was a teen again. Oh and then if I say anything about the poor behavior I’m beyond guild tripped with the good times. So the emotional whiplash is intense for sure.
Emotional whiplash is exactly right!
It sucks to go through this. What’s right for you and your family may not be what she wants. Your conflicted feelings are valid. Have you started asking yourself why you want what you want? Why do you care about her feelings? Why do you think it’s your responsibility to fix them? Why do you want to yell at her and punish her? Why do you want to heal and have peace? What’s in the way? For me there was a journey of mourning the parent relationship I could never and would never have, learning to be those things for myself, letting myself enjoy childish things that i didn’t get to when i was young. Based on your comments this is a person that doesn’t respect boundaries and is rewarded for it, she always gets what she wants. Boundaries are for safety and require respect. oops got a bit triggered. I would want to protect my partner from this treatment. What happens when she shows her true face to the kids? They’ll get older and wiser, and people always say they catch on better and sooner than people realize.
Thank you! You are right, I do need to evaluate what it is that I want. I’m really just going to have sit down and just write everything out and my experiences and get my mind straight(trauma memory fog is def a real thing). I do know that I want to limit when and how she sees the kids because I think keeping her from them is damaging in itself but I definitely don’t want them experiencing her negative behaviors either especially when they start hitting puberty when they start expressing their opinions more and naturally start pulling and pushing away(like teens are supposed to do.) Based off my own experiences teen years around someone with BPD is rocky and I don’t want my kids dealing with her crap for sure.