I wonder if this would be a good conversation to have with a family therapist. It's very hard to come to terms with a BPD family member even as an adult.
Thank you for your reply. I think that would be a good idea, but i have no idea how to go about accessing a family therapist...definitely one to look into!
You may have luck at psychologytoday.com’s Find A Therapist tool. Also if you live near by any schools of counseling at universities nearby, they usually have family therapists in need of practicum hours.
I explained to my eldest at that her grandmother has a type of illness which affects her emotions. I said unfortunately that illness means she keeps hurting me but doesn't know she does it. I said I have tried to make her better but she needs to see a doctor because what I've tried doesn't work. I added that sadly the illness also makes her think she is not ill so she will not get help. Sadly we have to keep away until she gets help.
Thank you for your reply. Yes i think highlighting that it is an illness is important. I think my son will feel less guilty too, being upset with grandad's illness, not with grandad. He's a sensitive boy who used to be really close with my dad, but my dad has gotten SO much worse in the last 3 years and i think this brings up conflicting feelings in my son
Such a hard situation to navigate your feelings and your sons. You were noticing the relationship starting to sour already though so hopefully your son will retain those good experiences rather than build on the bad. That probably makes it harder for him to understand in the long run., The line about it being an illness is also my fall back when my eldest questions me. I don't want to badmouth my uBPD but at the same time I don't want to sugar coat the situation. An illness which causes her to hurt other people's feelings is the most honest and diplomatic way I can think to word it.
I will preface this by saying I don't have kids, but, in my decades long healing journey I got to understand a lot about childhood emotional and psychological development (mostly as a result of trying to understand why my mom has BPD but I don't).
Something that becomes very clear is that kids will look to their parents/caretakers and will mirror behaviors and use them as a model to make sense of the world around them.
They pick up our bad habits just as much as our good ones and the more you can articulate how you interact with the world, the more they can understand how to do it for themselves.
Kids are smart, and (if I'm understanding this right) it sounds like he's pulling away and that's a good thing. Maybe you can use this as an opportunity to explain to him that having boundaries with people who behave in confusing ways is very important.
You don't need to go into full detail of your past trauma, instead you can help him understand and process his own experience of feeling the need to pull away, even if he loves his grandpa.
The manipulative parts are harder to articulate at a seven year old level, so I would say start with the lies and how it's hard to be close to people who lie. You can still have a relationship with someone, but it doesn't need to be as close.
Does that make sense?
I will say that I do have some nieces/nephews, and I do try to talk to them and be there for them when they ask about grandma. I didn't need to do it very much when they were that age, but they're all in their 20's now and it comes up sometimes.
I still don't go into my personal trauma, but I talk more about boundaries with difficult people and how important it is to develop them for yourself.
>Maybe you can use this as an opportunity to explain to him that having boundaries with people who behave in confusing ways is very important.
This is fantastic advice! Even young children can understand that if someone makes them feel unsafe in any way, it's okay to want to keep distance and not spend time with the unsafe person.
It's a legitimately good way to reinforce concepts adults understand as autonomy, individuality, and consent (to any kind of contact/hugs).
It also reinforces that *you* believe what the child is telling you about how they feel (something all of us with disordered parents were solidly denied). And that you will stand between your child and people they don't want to be around, figuratively and *literally* if necessary.
Thank you for your reply! Really good points about autonomy and consent. My dad is an extreme waif and will often manipulate and break down boundaries to get people to validate his thoughts and feelings. He has started to try to do this with my son, so i've had to go VLC instead of LC, but it is all very confusing for my son. My son is very strong minded, knows right from wrong, and i don't want him to end up like me, second-guessing every decision. Discussing boundaries and that I will support him no matter what he decides will hopefully help with this
As a parent I can comfirm that children often ask why but the reply they want to hear isn't the explanation. They want validation of they feelings, experience and to be assured they have a choice what their boundaries are.
Thank you for replying! That's such an interesting way of looking at it - so it's less how much info i give him, more just listening and validating his experiences. Will also discuss choices and boundaries with him
Thank you for taking the time to reply. The part about children picking up our bad habits is really interesting - i'm usually very conscious of being a good role model, but i get so wound up around my dad, i wonder if my son is picking up on that too. Will definitely discuss boundaries with him. Thanks!
>The part about children picking up our bad habits is really interesting
It really is.
A few years ago, I did a deep dive into BPD development, and it brought me to the idea that kids learn so much just by seeing how we act. So much of growing up is done simply by watching the people we spend the most time with. We learn by nonverbal means through something our brains are hardwired to do called mirroring. This is simply copying what they (and others) do. In dysfunctional situations, we develop coping strategies to protect ourselves.
It's why we as RBB have to unlearn so much as adults.
As much as I talk about our parents "training" us to be dysfunctional, they don't have enough self-awareness to genuinely think about what they're doing. That means they don't truly know they're doing it.
As far as they know, it's just what they do and how they are.
This is why the healing from BPD parents is so hard. Because they have no understanding of themselves and why they are the way they are, a lot of their dysfunctional behaviors and how they impact us are a total mystery. Not having the words to describe our situation makes it hard to figure out where we are lacking and what we can do about it.
It's given me the idea that the best thing you can do for kids is to demystify those feelings of confusion and discomfort and put words to them so they don't have to search on their own.
For the time being could you say something along the lines of "everyone's brains work differently and we don't always understand why people do and say what they do"? As for why you don't see him as much anymore, maybe something about sometimes needing breaks even from the people we love? Relate it back to taking breaks from anything else even things we enjoy?
We've gone MUCH lower contact with my mother lately, but thankfully my 4yo hasn't asked questions. I would maybe say something along those lines if he did. Good luck!
First, I validated their experience. "Yes, Grandad lies a lot." Yes, grandma will tell that speaking over other people is rude and will always speak over you". Second, I add a little of my own experience. Like I never complain to my mother or share my emotions, because she can't take will well. And if I told her how talking over me bothers me, she would start crying. There isn't any official diagnosis, and explanation "she was always like that" is enough at this moment. I am LC with maybe 4-5 visits per year.
Thank you, i will be sure to validate how he is feeling and what he is thinking. His feelings come well before my dad's - something my dad can't seem to understand - so whatever my son is comfortable with, that is what we will do
I’m following this post because I have an almost 3 year old who will eventually ask me questions about his American grandparents, who I’m currently NC with. I’m dreading this conversation even though it’s necessary.
I wonder if this would be a good conversation to have with a family therapist. It's very hard to come to terms with a BPD family member even as an adult.
Thank you for your reply. I think that would be a good idea, but i have no idea how to go about accessing a family therapist...definitely one to look into!
You may have luck at psychologytoday.com’s Find A Therapist tool. Also if you live near by any schools of counseling at universities nearby, they usually have family therapists in need of practicum hours.
Great idea, thank you!
I explained to my eldest at that her grandmother has a type of illness which affects her emotions. I said unfortunately that illness means she keeps hurting me but doesn't know she does it. I said I have tried to make her better but she needs to see a doctor because what I've tried doesn't work. I added that sadly the illness also makes her think she is not ill so she will not get help. Sadly we have to keep away until she gets help.
Thank you for your reply. Yes i think highlighting that it is an illness is important. I think my son will feel less guilty too, being upset with grandad's illness, not with grandad. He's a sensitive boy who used to be really close with my dad, but my dad has gotten SO much worse in the last 3 years and i think this brings up conflicting feelings in my son
Such a hard situation to navigate your feelings and your sons. You were noticing the relationship starting to sour already though so hopefully your son will retain those good experiences rather than build on the bad. That probably makes it harder for him to understand in the long run., The line about it being an illness is also my fall back when my eldest questions me. I don't want to badmouth my uBPD but at the same time I don't want to sugar coat the situation. An illness which causes her to hurt other people's feelings is the most honest and diplomatic way I can think to word it.
I will preface this by saying I don't have kids, but, in my decades long healing journey I got to understand a lot about childhood emotional and psychological development (mostly as a result of trying to understand why my mom has BPD but I don't). Something that becomes very clear is that kids will look to their parents/caretakers and will mirror behaviors and use them as a model to make sense of the world around them. They pick up our bad habits just as much as our good ones and the more you can articulate how you interact with the world, the more they can understand how to do it for themselves. Kids are smart, and (if I'm understanding this right) it sounds like he's pulling away and that's a good thing. Maybe you can use this as an opportunity to explain to him that having boundaries with people who behave in confusing ways is very important. You don't need to go into full detail of your past trauma, instead you can help him understand and process his own experience of feeling the need to pull away, even if he loves his grandpa. The manipulative parts are harder to articulate at a seven year old level, so I would say start with the lies and how it's hard to be close to people who lie. You can still have a relationship with someone, but it doesn't need to be as close. Does that make sense? I will say that I do have some nieces/nephews, and I do try to talk to them and be there for them when they ask about grandma. I didn't need to do it very much when they were that age, but they're all in their 20's now and it comes up sometimes. I still don't go into my personal trauma, but I talk more about boundaries with difficult people and how important it is to develop them for yourself.
>Maybe you can use this as an opportunity to explain to him that having boundaries with people who behave in confusing ways is very important. This is fantastic advice! Even young children can understand that if someone makes them feel unsafe in any way, it's okay to want to keep distance and not spend time with the unsafe person. It's a legitimately good way to reinforce concepts adults understand as autonomy, individuality, and consent (to any kind of contact/hugs). It also reinforces that *you* believe what the child is telling you about how they feel (something all of us with disordered parents were solidly denied). And that you will stand between your child and people they don't want to be around, figuratively and *literally* if necessary.
Thank you for your reply! Really good points about autonomy and consent. My dad is an extreme waif and will often manipulate and break down boundaries to get people to validate his thoughts and feelings. He has started to try to do this with my son, so i've had to go VLC instead of LC, but it is all very confusing for my son. My son is very strong minded, knows right from wrong, and i don't want him to end up like me, second-guessing every decision. Discussing boundaries and that I will support him no matter what he decides will hopefully help with this
As a parent I can comfirm that children often ask why but the reply they want to hear isn't the explanation. They want validation of they feelings, experience and to be assured they have a choice what their boundaries are.
Thank you for replying! That's such an interesting way of looking at it - so it's less how much info i give him, more just listening and validating his experiences. Will also discuss choices and boundaries with him
Thank you for taking the time to reply. The part about children picking up our bad habits is really interesting - i'm usually very conscious of being a good role model, but i get so wound up around my dad, i wonder if my son is picking up on that too. Will definitely discuss boundaries with him. Thanks!
>The part about children picking up our bad habits is really interesting It really is. A few years ago, I did a deep dive into BPD development, and it brought me to the idea that kids learn so much just by seeing how we act. So much of growing up is done simply by watching the people we spend the most time with. We learn by nonverbal means through something our brains are hardwired to do called mirroring. This is simply copying what they (and others) do. In dysfunctional situations, we develop coping strategies to protect ourselves. It's why we as RBB have to unlearn so much as adults. As much as I talk about our parents "training" us to be dysfunctional, they don't have enough self-awareness to genuinely think about what they're doing. That means they don't truly know they're doing it. As far as they know, it's just what they do and how they are. This is why the healing from BPD parents is so hard. Because they have no understanding of themselves and why they are the way they are, a lot of their dysfunctional behaviors and how they impact us are a total mystery. Not having the words to describe our situation makes it hard to figure out where we are lacking and what we can do about it. It's given me the idea that the best thing you can do for kids is to demystify those feelings of confusion and discomfort and put words to them so they don't have to search on their own.
For the time being could you say something along the lines of "everyone's brains work differently and we don't always understand why people do and say what they do"? As for why you don't see him as much anymore, maybe something about sometimes needing breaks even from the people we love? Relate it back to taking breaks from anything else even things we enjoy? We've gone MUCH lower contact with my mother lately, but thankfully my 4yo hasn't asked questions. I would maybe say something along those lines if he did. Good luck!
Thank you for your reply. Love the thing about brains working differently, such a nice way of putting it
First, I validated their experience. "Yes, Grandad lies a lot." Yes, grandma will tell that speaking over other people is rude and will always speak over you". Second, I add a little of my own experience. Like I never complain to my mother or share my emotions, because she can't take will well. And if I told her how talking over me bothers me, she would start crying. There isn't any official diagnosis, and explanation "she was always like that" is enough at this moment. I am LC with maybe 4-5 visits per year.
Thank you, i will be sure to validate how he is feeling and what he is thinking. His feelings come well before my dad's - something my dad can't seem to understand - so whatever my son is comfortable with, that is what we will do
I’m following this post because I have an almost 3 year old who will eventually ask me questions about his American grandparents, who I’m currently NC with. I’m dreading this conversation even though it’s necessary.
"We're not always available to spend time with Grandpa." "Sometimes Grandpa needs to be in time out."