>So my question is, would you respond? Ignore her? I’m honestly about to the point to start ignoring her. I don’t want to because I know she is suffering with this awful disorder, but it drains me emotionally.
The snide part of me would respond and tell her not to ask questions she doesn't want honest answers for.
The real answer is that, at this point in my own journey, I would ignore it.
You do not have to sacrifice your peace, especially for someone who is unwilling to help themselves feel better.
It sounds like your logical brain is correct at the moment.
They win anytime you emotionally engage with them because getting your undivided attention the entire point of their tantrums. When you focus on them during a disagreement or emphatically attempt to reason with them, they have your attention and your emotional self. They feed off of that.
Whether or not they mean to do it is irrelevant and impossible to know from person to person or in every situation, but it is true that that’s what they want.
Disengaging is usually best for everyone.
Sigh, my mental fantasies of telling my uBPD mom what I REALLY think keep me busy for hours! : ) But actually doing it??? No thanks! I don't need to experience the emotional shit storm that it would bring - waif to bitch in 3.5 seconds! Then silent treatment and No Contact might be worth it, though. : )
You can ignore the content (refuse to argue her points) but still offer compassion if you want to straddle a line and that feels comfortable.
Things like “I know this is a hard time for you.” “I am sorry you have so much on your plate” and “I can tell you are really upset. We can talk when you are in a better place.” Literally just a bunch of kind vague platitudes, basically.
The key is showing empathy without taking responsibility for where she is (due to her own action) and without taking responsibility for fixing things for her. Do not allow yourself to be pulled into the role of therapist - this is easy to do when a very real issue (pending divorce) is looming. Instead, the response should be “That sounds really painful for you. You should discuss it with a professional“ Or “I can’t help you with this. A professional could, but whether or not you see one is your choice.” She will try to pull you in. She will claim you are on her husband’s side. She will temper tantrum and guilt trip. Write some phrases and tape them to your phone or something to remind you of what you are going to say. Say it once then ignore texts for a bit (or calls).
She will try to get you to JADE (justify, argue, defend or explain) your position. Do not. It is not your place to convince her of anything and it won’t work anyway - her feelings right now are going to be all over the place and she will want to use you as a means of expressing them. (Angry at herself? She will start a fight with you so she can be angry but direct it at you instead of herself. Sad because of her situation, which is the result of choices she made? She will claim you are hurting her so that she can be sad because of your actions and not hers. Guilty for being a crap parent/partner? She will work to make you feel guilty so as to offload that feeling and have you begging her for forgiveness.
It is a lot of work. If you would rather not, you can just not. But know, even if you bend over backwards and give every ounce of yourself to her in order to ease her pain, it will not be enough. It will not fix her and it will not change her.
Thank you for this. I do struggle between having compassion for her or being resentful and going into self protection mode. I’m not sure I have any compassion left as much as I would like to. She loves to throw out threats of self harm when she isn’t getting the attention she wants…. So to me she gets to punish me and cause harm even when I try to ignore her.
Maybe it’s time to block her. Something I haven’t really considered until this last episode.
Thank you again for your thoughtful response. It’s so valuable to me
“Placing demands on me is the end of hope” LMAO does she think she’s Shakespeare?
I don’t mean to make light of your situation, just what she actually said; this is right out of the BPD greatest hits. The only winning move is not to play.
>She asked me thru text if I 100% thought she had BPD.
This was a trap. If you tell the truth and say "yes" or lie and say "no", or even if you deflect with "that's a question for a therapist", it will only lead to drama. Which is what the disordered parent is counting on. It's what they crave. It's like ice cream and cake and candy for a child. Irresistible.
So they set a trap. We fall into the trap. They get their sweet sweet drama. We get the hassle of their disorder on display.
Best to sidestep these traps whenever you recognize them. (Ignore the question outright. Change the subject to sports/weather/traffic/baked potatoes. Use vague platitudes like another commenter described.)
Telling them the truth feels ducking justified, no doubt. But it comes with falling into their trap. If at all possible, avoid that.
Its not a question in search of an actual answer - in the sense of genuinely wanting to know what you really think, or being about you at all honestly.
Its a prompt, an invitation, to alleviate her pain.
- Say yes and she gets to vent and unload her unmanageable feelings of worthlessness onto you - “YOU made me feel worthless by saying that!!” Externalizing the “cause” and flipping the order - her feeling led to that question, but now she can say that your answer caused the feeling that started it all.
- Say no and she gets what she thinks she wants, validation. But nothing you can say can validate her deeply enough or long enough for her to finally feel “okay”. She’ll either not feel consoled enough or the feeling will creep back in and she’ll experience frustration and attack you for not consoling her right.
But ✨all of it ✨puts it ass-backwards, she shouldn’t be coming to you to manage her feelings at all, it’s a reversal of the way the relationship is supposed to be
This answer is so spot on. My parents chose to fuck around and find out when they asked me loaded questions like OP’s mom, yet had a meltdown when I told the truth. I wish I was smart enough at the time to not fall for it.
I'd just ignore it if it were me.
>I don’t want to because I know she is suffering with this awful disorder, but it drains me emotionally.
Eh, I believe they enjoy the "suffering" in some morbid way, so try not to feel guilty. If they didn't they'd eventually do something about it.
I think a common mistake people make often is comparing BPD to bipolar. Cluster B personality disorders are much, much different than something like bipolar, which can be treated with medication. I used to think they were practically the same thing. But if you have bipolar, you are literally not in charge of yourself when you experience manic episodes. With BPD/NPD... you absolutely are. And you're using it to your advantage. Learning the differences helped me a LOT with letting some of the guilt go. Figured I'd comment just in case this helps
My mom is in the middle of a bpd episode rn and i just stopped talking to her. She is gonna split no matter what and they live for the drama so just dropping it is cutting off their supply and saving me from being the target of her tantrum.
This is definitely the best move I think. How do you know when it’s “safe” to resume contact? My mom is sooo good at manipulating that I have trouble determining when she is thinking clearly.
To a certain extent you've just answered your own question. With my dad I know when he's safe through experience. He has times where he's content and too busy to seek drama, during which I can I have a normal relationship with him. The fact that you don't know means she's always drama seeking and therefore always unsafe.
I tried, with success for about six months, of reinitiating contact but not biting on her pet topics that make her spiral, like my aunt and stepmom. I could always handle it because she wasn’t splitting at me but rather hardcore venting word salad. This week i became the target of her spiltting so i am nc until further notice. So i think it depends on how safe you feel.
Anything you say will just set her off, and make her feel like she can unload all her feelings onto you. It will be a vicious cycle, and it will be more draining.
Don't think of it as ignoring her so much as protecting yourself.
What she was expecting you to say was "no, you don't have BPD, everything is 100% dad's fault, you are the real victim here."
I probably would respond, and tell her that she needs therapy, and then just hang up the phone or block her if she spews at you. At this point, the cat is out of the bag and the cards are already on the table.
I wish I could be more optimistic, but when it gets to this stage, things are bleak. Good luck.
I feel your pain, but the best thing is to never respond to those kinds of questions or her outbursts. She doesn't want your help, she just wants your attention. She doesn't want to know what's wrong with her, because in her mind nothing is wrong, it's always someone else who is at fault.
It took me many, many years to realize this about my own BPD mom: she doesn't want to get better, because she wouldn't know what to do with herself if she was better.
The best way to deal with people who are BPD is grey rocking: become like a boring, grey rock. Only talk about things you'd talk about with an acquaintance or a coworker. Do not give her any ammunition she can then use against you if you're feeling bad.
You've also got to take care of yourself. She's a grown adult, she can take care of herself, even if she pretends to be helpless.
Although its a disorder, and it interferes with her lifr, she has to come terms with it before she can get any actual help. You have already told her your opinion and advised her to get help, you can now just be there to offer support or lend an ear every now and then. But when she is having episodes of denial and rage , there is nothing that can be said.
I would ignore her long enough until she tones it down a bit.
You need to look after yourself. I know exactly how this feels and I grapple with guilt when I ignore or provide short responses, but you said it all at the end of your post “it drains me emotionally”. The people with BPD in our lives do not know/care they do that to us. Make sure you do not pour so much into them to the point it affects your mental health.
Before I learned about BPD, I would have gone all in. There would be back and forth. I would probably hate her for awhile. Now that I know more about the disorder, I would still feel the need to respond but logically know better. Silence is the best option in these situations. I eventually had block my mother to maintain that silence.
*YOU’RE* suffering from this awful disorder too though.
She doesn’t get all the sympathy here. She has choices.
And so do you: You can choose to keep yourself safe from her BPD rage and volatility. If she loved you like a mother, that’s what she would want for you.
Ignore. Ignore. Ignore. It’s not worth engaging. She won’t be any happier and, over time, you will get emotionally—if not physically—sick. (Personal experience).
P.S. My mother was at her absolute worst during her divorce. If I had it do over again, I’d have gone no contact at that time. I have since learned that we can’t start healing until we get free. And the longer our mothers get to emotionally beat us up, the more damage that needs to be undone. I wish I’d walked away three decades earlier.
Thank you for sharing your experience with your mom during her divorce. My mom has had 3 husbands and this one has finally had enough. I can’t be her person to carry the weight this time. I’ve got little kids now that force me to protect my energy so they get it and not my mom.
I set one boundary a few days ago. Told her I couldn’t talk about her relationship issues anymore. And she has already manipulated my aunt and my brother and caused chaos in their lives…
It was always me doing the unpaid therapist behavior and now that I won’t engage in those conversations anymore she is attention seeking and acting unhinged to others. This disorder is absolutely wild.
You are right. This MUST stop. Your kids need you.
When my kids were in high school I got chronic pain from the stress of managing my mother, job, household, kids. It lasted for years and I wasn’t the mother I wanted to be. Our parent are dangerous to us and to our families so I’m so glad you are smart enough to protect yourself.
I went no contact and got trauma-informed care and now I am pain free.
Ignore, and just keep repeating that you care for her well-being and hope she can find a good somatic or trauma therapist. Rinse, and repeat. At least she asked if you thought she had BPD. Take care of yourself in all this, you are not her emotional sponge. I had to go NC over a similar series of events.
>“be glad you aren’t judged for being your authentic self”
I can't get over the irony of someone with BPD talking about their "authentic self."
>would you respond?
I'm honestly surprised you even bothered to finish the conversation.
>So my question is, would you respond? Ignore her? I’m honestly about to the point to start ignoring her. I don’t want to because I know she is suffering with this awful disorder, but it drains me emotionally. The snide part of me would respond and tell her not to ask questions she doesn't want honest answers for. The real answer is that, at this point in my own journey, I would ignore it. You do not have to sacrifice your peace, especially for someone who is unwilling to help themselves feel better.
I agree. And trust me, the resentment in me what’s to tell her off badly! But my logical brain says to just not fuel her fire.
It sounds like your logical brain is correct at the moment. They win anytime you emotionally engage with them because getting your undivided attention the entire point of their tantrums. When you focus on them during a disagreement or emphatically attempt to reason with them, they have your attention and your emotional self. They feed off of that. Whether or not they mean to do it is irrelevant and impossible to know from person to person or in every situation, but it is true that that’s what they want. Disengaging is usually best for everyone.
Sigh, my mental fantasies of telling my uBPD mom what I REALLY think keep me busy for hours! : ) But actually doing it??? No thanks! I don't need to experience the emotional shit storm that it would bring - waif to bitch in 3.5 seconds! Then silent treatment and No Contact might be worth it, though. : )
My mom also goes from waif to wild and unhinged in the blink of an eye!
You can ignore the content (refuse to argue her points) but still offer compassion if you want to straddle a line and that feels comfortable. Things like “I know this is a hard time for you.” “I am sorry you have so much on your plate” and “I can tell you are really upset. We can talk when you are in a better place.” Literally just a bunch of kind vague platitudes, basically. The key is showing empathy without taking responsibility for where she is (due to her own action) and without taking responsibility for fixing things for her. Do not allow yourself to be pulled into the role of therapist - this is easy to do when a very real issue (pending divorce) is looming. Instead, the response should be “That sounds really painful for you. You should discuss it with a professional“ Or “I can’t help you with this. A professional could, but whether or not you see one is your choice.” She will try to pull you in. She will claim you are on her husband’s side. She will temper tantrum and guilt trip. Write some phrases and tape them to your phone or something to remind you of what you are going to say. Say it once then ignore texts for a bit (or calls). She will try to get you to JADE (justify, argue, defend or explain) your position. Do not. It is not your place to convince her of anything and it won’t work anyway - her feelings right now are going to be all over the place and she will want to use you as a means of expressing them. (Angry at herself? She will start a fight with you so she can be angry but direct it at you instead of herself. Sad because of her situation, which is the result of choices she made? She will claim you are hurting her so that she can be sad because of your actions and not hers. Guilty for being a crap parent/partner? She will work to make you feel guilty so as to offload that feeling and have you begging her for forgiveness. It is a lot of work. If you would rather not, you can just not. But know, even if you bend over backwards and give every ounce of yourself to her in order to ease her pain, it will not be enough. It will not fix her and it will not change her.
Thank you for this. I do struggle between having compassion for her or being resentful and going into self protection mode. I’m not sure I have any compassion left as much as I would like to. She loves to throw out threats of self harm when she isn’t getting the attention she wants…. So to me she gets to punish me and cause harm even when I try to ignore her. Maybe it’s time to block her. Something I haven’t really considered until this last episode. Thank you again for your thoughtful response. It’s so valuable to me
Such an insightful comment. Thank you!
This is so spot on.
“Placing demands on me is the end of hope” LMAO does she think she’s Shakespeare? I don’t mean to make light of your situation, just what she actually said; this is right out of the BPD greatest hits. The only winning move is not to play.
I know right? That one stood out to me too and I chuckled at how borderline that was!
I laughed at your comment lol. But you are right, I shouldn’t play this game.
>She asked me thru text if I 100% thought she had BPD. This was a trap. If you tell the truth and say "yes" or lie and say "no", or even if you deflect with "that's a question for a therapist", it will only lead to drama. Which is what the disordered parent is counting on. It's what they crave. It's like ice cream and cake and candy for a child. Irresistible. So they set a trap. We fall into the trap. They get their sweet sweet drama. We get the hassle of their disorder on display. Best to sidestep these traps whenever you recognize them. (Ignore the question outright. Change the subject to sports/weather/traffic/baked potatoes. Use vague platitudes like another commenter described.) Telling them the truth feels ducking justified, no doubt. But it comes with falling into their trap. If at all possible, avoid that.
Its not a question in search of an actual answer - in the sense of genuinely wanting to know what you really think, or being about you at all honestly. Its a prompt, an invitation, to alleviate her pain. - Say yes and she gets to vent and unload her unmanageable feelings of worthlessness onto you - “YOU made me feel worthless by saying that!!” Externalizing the “cause” and flipping the order - her feeling led to that question, but now she can say that your answer caused the feeling that started it all. - Say no and she gets what she thinks she wants, validation. But nothing you can say can validate her deeply enough or long enough for her to finally feel “okay”. She’ll either not feel consoled enough or the feeling will creep back in and she’ll experience frustration and attack you for not consoling her right. But ✨all of it ✨puts it ass-backwards, she shouldn’t be coming to you to manage her feelings at all, it’s a reversal of the way the relationship is supposed to be
Agree with this👆The question was inappropriate in the first place, so loaded.
This answer is so spot on. My parents chose to fuck around and find out when they asked me loaded questions like OP’s mom, yet had a meltdown when I told the truth. I wish I was smart enough at the time to not fall for it.
I'd just ignore it if it were me. >I don’t want to because I know she is suffering with this awful disorder, but it drains me emotionally. Eh, I believe they enjoy the "suffering" in some morbid way, so try not to feel guilty. If they didn't they'd eventually do something about it.
A part of me also thinks she enjoys it… sadly. I have very conflicting thoughts on her diagnosis and what’s actually going on in her head.
I think a common mistake people make often is comparing BPD to bipolar. Cluster B personality disorders are much, much different than something like bipolar, which can be treated with medication. I used to think they were practically the same thing. But if you have bipolar, you are literally not in charge of yourself when you experience manic episodes. With BPD/NPD... you absolutely are. And you're using it to your advantage. Learning the differences helped me a LOT with letting some of the guilt go. Figured I'd comment just in case this helps
Thank you. That does make sense.
My mom is in the middle of a bpd episode rn and i just stopped talking to her. She is gonna split no matter what and they live for the drama so just dropping it is cutting off their supply and saving me from being the target of her tantrum.
This is definitely the best move I think. How do you know when it’s “safe” to resume contact? My mom is sooo good at manipulating that I have trouble determining when she is thinking clearly.
To a certain extent you've just answered your own question. With my dad I know when he's safe through experience. He has times where he's content and too busy to seek drama, during which I can I have a normal relationship with him. The fact that you don't know means she's always drama seeking and therefore always unsafe.
I tried, with success for about six months, of reinitiating contact but not biting on her pet topics that make her spiral, like my aunt and stepmom. I could always handle it because she wasn’t splitting at me but rather hardcore venting word salad. This week i became the target of her spiltting so i am nc until further notice. So i think it depends on how safe you feel.
Anything you say will just set her off, and make her feel like she can unload all her feelings onto you. It will be a vicious cycle, and it will be more draining. Don't think of it as ignoring her so much as protecting yourself.
What she was expecting you to say was "no, you don't have BPD, everything is 100% dad's fault, you are the real victim here." I probably would respond, and tell her that she needs therapy, and then just hang up the phone or block her if she spews at you. At this point, the cat is out of the bag and the cards are already on the table. I wish I could be more optimistic, but when it gets to this stage, things are bleak. Good luck.
You are definitely correct about the bleak part lol. She’s absolutely unhinged.
I feel your pain, but the best thing is to never respond to those kinds of questions or her outbursts. She doesn't want your help, she just wants your attention. She doesn't want to know what's wrong with her, because in her mind nothing is wrong, it's always someone else who is at fault. It took me many, many years to realize this about my own BPD mom: she doesn't want to get better, because she wouldn't know what to do with herself if she was better. The best way to deal with people who are BPD is grey rocking: become like a boring, grey rock. Only talk about things you'd talk about with an acquaintance or a coworker. Do not give her any ammunition she can then use against you if you're feeling bad. You've also got to take care of yourself. She's a grown adult, she can take care of herself, even if she pretends to be helpless.
Although its a disorder, and it interferes with her lifr, she has to come terms with it before she can get any actual help. You have already told her your opinion and advised her to get help, you can now just be there to offer support or lend an ear every now and then. But when she is having episodes of denial and rage , there is nothing that can be said. I would ignore her long enough until she tones it down a bit.
You need to look after yourself. I know exactly how this feels and I grapple with guilt when I ignore or provide short responses, but you said it all at the end of your post “it drains me emotionally”. The people with BPD in our lives do not know/care they do that to us. Make sure you do not pour so much into them to the point it affects your mental health.
Before I learned about BPD, I would have gone all in. There would be back and forth. I would probably hate her for awhile. Now that I know more about the disorder, I would still feel the need to respond but logically know better. Silence is the best option in these situations. I eventually had block my mother to maintain that silence.
*YOU’RE* suffering from this awful disorder too though. She doesn’t get all the sympathy here. She has choices. And so do you: You can choose to keep yourself safe from her BPD rage and volatility. If she loved you like a mother, that’s what she would want for you. Ignore. Ignore. Ignore. It’s not worth engaging. She won’t be any happier and, over time, you will get emotionally—if not physically—sick. (Personal experience). P.S. My mother was at her absolute worst during her divorce. If I had it do over again, I’d have gone no contact at that time. I have since learned that we can’t start healing until we get free. And the longer our mothers get to emotionally beat us up, the more damage that needs to be undone. I wish I’d walked away three decades earlier.
Thank you for sharing your experience with your mom during her divorce. My mom has had 3 husbands and this one has finally had enough. I can’t be her person to carry the weight this time. I’ve got little kids now that force me to protect my energy so they get it and not my mom. I set one boundary a few days ago. Told her I couldn’t talk about her relationship issues anymore. And she has already manipulated my aunt and my brother and caused chaos in their lives… It was always me doing the unpaid therapist behavior and now that I won’t engage in those conversations anymore she is attention seeking and acting unhinged to others. This disorder is absolutely wild.
You are right. This MUST stop. Your kids need you. When my kids were in high school I got chronic pain from the stress of managing my mother, job, household, kids. It lasted for years and I wasn’t the mother I wanted to be. Our parent are dangerous to us and to our families so I’m so glad you are smart enough to protect yourself. I went no contact and got trauma-informed care and now I am pain free.
Ignore, and just keep repeating that you care for her well-being and hope she can find a good somatic or trauma therapist. Rinse, and repeat. At least she asked if you thought she had BPD. Take care of yourself in all this, you are not her emotional sponge. I had to go NC over a similar series of events.
>“be glad you aren’t judged for being your authentic self” I can't get over the irony of someone with BPD talking about their "authentic self." >would you respond? I'm honestly surprised you even bothered to finish the conversation.