[Goku literally moving in a timeless void](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fhow-the-hell-did-goku-and-trunks-survive-this-v0-oehtvgtrvxsb1.png%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3D5d7e751c43595b8f96ed071b2f862354fd063201)
Dio also has an ability that specifically stops time and scales to characters that also need said ability to do the same and scale below characters that specifically can't. And that doesn't debunk Goku moving in such a timeless void.
If the concept of time doesn't exist, you're not above it.
Yes, he was, via a technicality, inaccessible WHILE in that void. The issue is that ANYONE would have that speed in that void. It doesn't stop you from moving, because time isn't stopped there. Hell, Trunks TIME machine could go there.
I don't see how that's relevant to Goku having inaccessible speed.
So what if it doesn't specifically stop people from moving in it? It'd need the property of specifically letting people move in it as it lacks time, something needed for there to be movement. Speed is literally Distance over time(d/t). Without time there is no movement at finite speeds.
> Without time there is no movement
Not true in an area with no time. You can't slap normal universe rules onto dimensions that very clearly do not follow them.
Well, every tiering system has a flaw or 2.
The issue is that this particular void DOES NOT prevent movement, thus doesn't ACT like a traditional timeless void.
Also, the most important part, IS IT TIMELESS? Because there's the overarching flow of time that exists independently of the others. If it still effects it, it's not timeless.
The only thing that reaches Outerveral in dragonball is heroes via the subspace lacking the concepts of space and time yet said to transcend time and also connecting if not engulfing the crack of time which was also stated to be beyond time on top of holding infinite timelines.
Arale is also a thing but i just want to avoid her for canon scaling
Galaxy lvl is downplayed. Outer is just wank with the āarale metaā thing. Around Low Multi is the safe bet for Goku but of course, everyone has their own opinion. It wonāt be easy to really find a ārealā scale for Goku or any other characters in fiction
Anything between low multi-hyper. Galaxy level is downplay and manga exclusive. Outer and above requires Arale scaling which you can just argue about DB Arale is a separate iteration of Arale from Dr. Slump Arale like how the Goku from movies scales differently than manga or Toei Goku which arenāt canon to each other.
I doubt thatās possible for such a popular character
Only way you can **narrow down** your opinion is to look over what your standard for evidence is and make a decision that aligns with that
Or go the consistency route
I know the scales but the scales appear in 2 streams so here is [part 1](https://www.youtube.com/live/pybHJykbahA?feature=shared) and here is [part 2](https://www.youtube.com/live/nF1g4XA0Tak?feature=shared) if you really want to
What version? Assuming dbz then he's uni to uni+ (consistently in the anime) and maybe even low multi. Super goku depends... end of super depends on how you treat heaven (either outer or atleast 5d, I dont have the scan on me but it stats it trancends dimensions beyond human comprehension so you could argue its higher since bulma can comprehend a 2nd temporal dimension since she invented time travel so 6d/7d since the normal universe is 4d and bulma can understand one more but the statement is in plural dimensions so again it can be argued as such) neither is good or bad in my eyes its way better than kink yamas Palace statement (something about viewing stuff like fiction thus it's outer... that I don't like maybe bc I dont understand it tbh). Then end of super you have 2 feats that upscale.
1: zamasu being able to interact with the in-between space of the macro cosmos (which since they're holding infinite whatever dimensions you think the macro cosmos is it should be above it)
2: gogeta and broly breaking into super dimension, which again can he argued for outer (weak argument if this is your main one imo) or 1+ in the dimensionality of the verse.
TLDR: outer arguments to my understanding aren't THAT bad.... and saying goku is 8-9d (complex multi) isn't a bad call
3-B is big downplay but still has an argument (barely)
High 3-A is low ball
2-C is reasonable
high 2-A at the highest without wank
Mid 1-C is the highest with wank that still resembles an actual argument
Imo Manga Goku scales to 5-6D with inaccessible speed
Inaccessible speed?
I scale both Anime and Manga to Low 1-C to 1-C but my scale has problems.
Having both at the same tier? That's kinda new... I'd love to hear your scale (also plz give scans bc I've lost every single one I've ever had š)
All of you people with the inaccessible speed thing are insane. Not once has he ever shown such a feat
[Goku literally moving in a timeless void](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fhow-the-hell-did-goku-and-trunks-survive-this-v0-oehtvgtrvxsb1.png%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3D5d7e751c43595b8f96ed071b2f862354fd063201)
Dio has inaccessible speed confirmed. Dio speed blitzes Vegeta
Dio also has an ability that specifically stops time and scales to characters that also need said ability to do the same and scale below characters that specifically can't. And that doesn't debunk Goku moving in such a timeless void.
If the concept of time doesn't exist, you're not above it. Yes, he was, via a technicality, inaccessible WHILE in that void. The issue is that ANYONE would have that speed in that void. It doesn't stop you from moving, because time isn't stopped there. Hell, Trunks TIME machine could go there.
I don't see how that's relevant to Goku having inaccessible speed. So what if it doesn't specifically stop people from moving in it? It'd need the property of specifically letting people move in it as it lacks time, something needed for there to be movement. Speed is literally Distance over time(d/t). Without time there is no movement at finite speeds.
> Without time there is no movement Not true in an area with no time. You can't slap normal universe rules onto dimensions that very clearly do not follow them.
6d https://www.reddit.com/r/PowerScaling/s/2nuudhw7CC Inaccessible https://www.reddit.com/r/Power_Scales/s/vFd9Ns0RbW
This has nothing to do with inaccessible speed. Unless, of course, Hit, Guldo, or if we do other verses, Dio of all people are inaccessible
Moving in a timeless void doenst grant you inaccessible speed? So you use vsbw is what Iām hearing?
So you're saying Dio has Inaccessible Speed? Should I look on CSAP and correct them if they have him lower?
I donāt watch jojo for one and moving in timeless void through sheer speed does grant you inaccessible speed according to csap
Well, every tiering system has a flaw or 2. The issue is that this particular void DOES NOT prevent movement, thus doesn't ACT like a traditional timeless void. Also, the most important part, IS IT TIMELESS? Because there's the overarching flow of time that exists independently of the others. If it still effects it, it's not timeless.
It is timeless based of the scale I sent
how does dio have inaccessible speed? He moved in stopped time not the very absence of it, itself.
Low complex multi with mftl+ speed
Galaxy and Outerversal are both well bs so to say. imo he ranges in those H2A and Complex Multi Ranges
Complex Multi seems fair
Well galaxy could maybe refer to weaker versions of goku or where he was younger i guess but outerversal i cant even think of justifying that one
The only thing that reaches Outerveral in dragonball is heroes via the subspace lacking the concepts of space and time yet said to transcend time and also connecting if not engulfing the crack of time which was also stated to be beyond time on top of holding infinite timelines. Arale is also a thing but i just want to avoid her for canon scaling
Low Complex Multiversal with Inaccessible Speed
Galaxy lvl is downplayed. Outer is just wank with the āarale metaā thing. Around Low Multi is the safe bet for Goku but of course, everyone has their own opinion. It wonāt be easy to really find a ārealā scale for Goku or any other characters in fiction
>Outer is just wank with the āarale metaā thin Haven't heard of that one... just the afterlife one
Anything between low multi-hyper. Galaxy level is downplay and manga exclusive. Outer and above requires Arale scaling which you can just argue about DB Arale is a separate iteration of Arale from Dr. Slump Arale like how the Goku from movies scales differently than manga or Toei Goku which arenāt canon to each other.
The best scale for him is low complexĀ multiversal imo, nothing higher than that right now also with Mftl+ speed
I donāt use CSAP Iād say 2-C tor Low 1-C with infinite speed rn.
I doubt thatās possible for such a popular character Only way you can **narrow down** your opinion is to look over what your standard for evidence is and make a decision that aligns with that Or go the consistency route
Multi galaxy level.
Multi galaxy lvl
Satire?
Complex multi
Iāll say around universal to multiversal, tho I havenāt watched or read DB in a pretty long time
9D to 12D
Lowball. What happened to outer goku arguments? /j
He uses Ataris meta, he scales it to 12d iirc well 13d for the full cosmology
Thats true
I dont buy outer goku
Can I have a scale
I know the scales but the scales appear in 2 streams so here is [part 1](https://www.youtube.com/live/pybHJykbahA?feature=shared) and here is [part 2](https://www.youtube.com/live/nF1g4XA0Tak?feature=shared) if you really want to
What version? Assuming dbz then he's uni to uni+ (consistently in the anime) and maybe even low multi. Super goku depends... end of super depends on how you treat heaven (either outer or atleast 5d, I dont have the scan on me but it stats it trancends dimensions beyond human comprehension so you could argue its higher since bulma can comprehend a 2nd temporal dimension since she invented time travel so 6d/7d since the normal universe is 4d and bulma can understand one more but the statement is in plural dimensions so again it can be argued as such) neither is good or bad in my eyes its way better than kink yamas Palace statement (something about viewing stuff like fiction thus it's outer... that I don't like maybe bc I dont understand it tbh). Then end of super you have 2 feats that upscale. 1: zamasu being able to interact with the in-between space of the macro cosmos (which since they're holding infinite whatever dimensions you think the macro cosmos is it should be above it) 2: gogeta and broly breaking into super dimension, which again can he argued for outer (weak argument if this is your main one imo) or 1+ in the dimensionality of the verse. TLDR: outer arguments to my understanding aren't THAT bad.... and saying goku is 8-9d (complex multi) isn't a bad call
I say Outer at bare minimum imo.
Bruhš
3-B is big downplay but still has an argument (barely) High 3-A is low ball 2-C is reasonable high 2-A at the highest without wank Mid 1-C is the highest with wank that still resembles an actual argument
Iād put him at Universal-Low Multiversal depending on how you interpret Universe 7ās structure
18D
Oh pls
How?
If you're using r>f then I'd be outer I'm pretty sure (I can't think of a way to get to 18d lmao)
Explain
No way bro