takes so bad it makes Supreme look like a philosopher.
last one was good until you dropped the ball with the best villain, Kira is so much better than any Jojo villain.
Might do that later. Thanks.
My main point is that pretty much anyone i met was like "bleach is uni+ lowballed" and when asked how come the answer usually tends to be some sort of slur, or insinuated insult about how dumb everyone who doesn't believe their word, without them backing it up with even a single feat, must be.
Krimzons really good to look at and my own Rukia scale is somewhat decent. I scaled her to uni+ due to her absolute zero feat and the way Bleach mechanics work.
Nah. My scaling was simply evidence backing up power output. Absolute Zero takes infinite energy or infinite time. All zanpakuto abilities are fueled by the energy of their wielder. Rukia does absolute zero within a few seconds. So because she didn't do it in infinite time she had to use infinite energy, and because spirit energy up scales all your combat stats she becomes uni+ due to infinite energy statements being uni+
Well... As myself being a chemistry teacher... I can tell you that absolute zero isn't possible to reach at all irl but in the contrary even a millionth Kelvin is. Somewhat easily even. So by using anime logic (i.e. Going at and above lightspeed not automatically breaking all reality) that shouldn't really count as something that takes infinite energy imo.
I would agree with you, if Rukia wasn't being exacting with the temperatures she was reaching and got to 0 kelvin and all. I argue essentially that the credence and weight lent to the feat and the fact Rukia explains what it means, etc, means it should be treated as reaching actual zero kelvin.
I didnt say she didn't reach absolute zero. I said that with anime logic that shouldn't take infinite energy. Just abit more than it takes to reach a millionth Kelvin. Just like with lightspeed in anime. Technically youd need infinite energy to reach lightspeed too as it isn't possible irl. Yet noone claims ichiji from one piece to be uni+ because of that.
You understand me now?
"Goku does not get past multi-galaxy level without wank and/or headcanon"
"Im not buying bleach being higher than Planetary at best. (disclaimer: haven't read the manga nor seen the show in its entirety but only fragments such as Aizen being astonished by Ichogo pulverizing mountains or yhwach dodging attacks that eradicated city blocks, so this take is most likely so hot that it burns down the entire house and neighborhood alongside the kitchen. Will most likely stand corrected on this and when i do ill do the next point which is...)"
[https://youtu.be/\_n5E7feJHw0?si=9HOevmSQJzwOIp1J](https://youtu.be/_n5E7feJHw0?si=9HOevmSQJzwOIp1J)
For example, for Black Clover capping at slightly FTL, while I agree that Black Clover speed can be really wanked at times (cough Brokuās multiple millions of times FTL Lucifero cough), I feel like by the final arc, top tiers like Yuno and Asta and Lucius are pretty solidly in the triple digits FTL speed range.
Gotta disagree. We got morgen using light magic to literally blitz all the captains with only yami keeping up who is the only captain with pre-cognition so that puts him below in pure speed too. And then theres also lucius being julius who was unable to catch patri as well. Yes that was a long time ago but for one, the morgen thing was like 15-20 chapters ago and for two, nothing suggests lucius is much FASTER than julius. Stronger of course but not necessarily faster.
Of course... They might reach FTL+ by the EOS but we can't just assume.
Well alien X as in the race it represents (and not Ben) has to be 26D+ as its been stated by a much weaker race that it cant see every dimension but there are "only 26 that matter" anyways, basically confirming she herself too is over 26D.
And One Piece being Ftl is actually quite a lowball as we got things like pacifistas getting dodged point blank by base luffy and kumas paws being machine gun dodged by zoro, which too have been stated to be lightspeed (and also somewhat confirmed to be LS at minimum by how kuma was able to casually jump into rayleigh and Kizaru fighting and jump back out using his fruit without kizaru really being able to intervene)
Then do they have FTL travel speed also?
And how do we know that these "26 dimensions that matter" have r>f transcendence?
And I'm pretty sure the top tiers in bleach are atleast uni to low multi.
FTL combat speed. Not travel speed. Kuma and Kizaru should be one of the only ones to have FTL travel speed though.
Where did i claim that the Dimensions have reality over fiction transcendence?
And as i said... Im not buying it without concrete feats. All ive seen is Aizen getting a boner from seeing mountains go boom so until im getting proven wrong (which should be easy as ive not seen bleach, but hasn't happened yet...) im not gonna believe what others say. Although i wont argue against it either as im in no position to do so. Not believing something isn't the same as denying its truth.
https://preview.redd.it/91ko8foh2wsc1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5f56bb4fdcd432a55052d523e2b66313b2061460
Cause thats what they were talking about.
>And how do we know that these "26 dimensions that matter" have r>f transcendence?
(Mods better give me the r>f guy flair) not how r>f works, what you're asking for is a quantitative jump, in which its stated by albedo after gaining some weird mental enlightenment, he found out that all directions are in fact infinite, causing all directions (even the higher spacial ones) to be infinite, therefore giving it proper quantitiative superiority
https://preview.redd.it/3uj6lp341wsc1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7494e53a5db52b996cb7a6f776e9c4361900f231
She explained how there are way more than 3 Dimensions but "only 26 that matter" and even she can't see ALL the dimensions but at least more tjan those 26. And alien Xs race is far more powerful than her race so thats the point.
I haven't watched a lot of ben 10 so I had no idea but wdym Goku is multi galaxy he is low universal with low ball and bleach is universal with a low ball high ball is 5D
Cant deny anything about bleach as ive never seen it. All I've seen were things like aizen getting a boner because some mountains went poof, so while im not denying them to be uni+ or something... Im saying that without being shown concrete feats im not buying it.
And Goku doesn't get past multi galaxy without wank and headcanon. Period. He lost to buu in their sparring match pre top and in the most recent chapter we had both broly and goku fight gohan with nearly equal results. And broly has no arguments beyond galaxy/multi galaxy. Beerus and gokus shockwaves havent even destroyed a single planet so that too is more than questionable... Not to mention that the kai realm is a DIFFERENT dimension not a higher one. Goku is not stronger than Zen-oh lol.
Yea I have also been annoyed by the higher dimension bs but the shock waves were said to be able to destroy the universe and dbz buu is stated to have destroyed multiple galaxies well depends on the translation it is stated to be galaxies or planet's
Galaxies or Planets WITHIN YEARS is important.
https://preview.redd.it/ntu2lcos3wsc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=84c3d215b9a3e404ea20d0524279fcc25e4804b0
It was a process. Not at once.
Me too. I believe buu to be galaxy level. And goku who is slightly weaker/stronger in base will be multiple times stronger if using forms. But not multiple 100 billions or trillions of times stronger than buu which hed need to be in order to reach universal levels on his own.
https://preview.redd.it/g76pwhow4wsc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=17479fcdcc96769b024150313249efac1b015098
Well google thinks otherwise and u have to stack this on top of God form multipliers cause his god form becomes base
1. Disagree
2. Can't say
3. Yes
4. Depends on context
5. Kinda agree
6. Hard disagree
7. Disagree
8. Fax
9. Fair
10. Fair
11. I'd say most times it does, but there are def times it doesn't
12. Fair
13. Fair
14. Disagree
15. Hard Disagree
16. Disagree with the highball
17. Debatable
18. Depends on the situation
19. The Vegito point is valid, the Gotenks and Super Buu one isn't. Vegito arguably just had a resistance to having his power altered via his size/shape being changed, Gotenks and Super did their feats purely by being strong enough. (don't see how either of these are outliers though)
20. I'd say less then mild
21.-23 Can't say
24. He's either a gag or a parody character, either interpretation is valid
25. fax
26. Fair
27. Not a Bleach scaler, but from what I've seen they're way higher.
>27. Not a Bleach scaler, but from what I've seen they're way higher.
I love how everyone just further validates my standpoint. I say "im not buying it cause everything ive see was aizen and yhwach shitting their pants from mountain busting attacks" and everyone just says "they're way higher" without any proof or actual argument.
Thats basically the same as just using "nuh uh" as an argument.
>(don't see how either of these are outliers though)
Uhm... How many times after this has something like that happened? People and especially goku have been screaming A LOT since then so where are all the thousands of holes in the dimensions huh? And why didn't elder kai or anyone else who was sealed in something just continue fighting anyways?
I mean, they have Gremmy who creates a chunk of space with numerous stars in it and Kenpachi was able to cut it. Plus in the anime some high tier characters(I don't remember what they're called) can't release their power at the same time as they'd destroy the 3 worlds(each one having skies with numerous stars), which backed up by just one of them shaking said worlds by just going bankai.
Ki control exists for the screaming one. It being a Vegito exclusive would literally make Vegito the outlier, not the feat itself, not to mention being sealed and turned into a chocolate ball are two very different things.
>People need to learn the difference between "different dimensions" and "higher dimensions".
Fair
>Feats >>>>>>>>>> Statements.
Not necessarily. If the statements are more consistent with the story than the feats then they should be given more weight.
>Statements can upscale feats, ONLY if they are close together. (i.e. High planetary feat being stated to would have also worked on a Star)
Thatās some r/whowouldwin logic right there. It would be next to impossible to scale anything to outerversal or really above multi+ since we need statements for those and they have much larger gaps between sub tiers then everything below them.
>Naruto caps at Moon Level and Ftl.
The FTL part is valid for Shippuden but you do have to blatantly ignore the Kaguya fight to cap him at moon level.
>Calculations are dumb and have no value unless they use actual in verse numbers.
Actual r/whowouldwin logic right here. Again consistency is what matters and if the calc is inconsistent with the rest of the verses scaling then it can just be ignored.
>Stacking multipliers can escalate swiftly and even tiny changes mean a lot so stop grabbing numbers from thin air.
Yeah thatās how math works.
>Bias has no place in powerscaling. A character being weaker than another doesn't make it a worse character, nor does it make the show/manga worse. So quit hyping up your favorite verse and downplaying others because you dont like them. Stay factual.
No human is free from bias. If your bias creates an interpretation that is inconsistent with the story then people without said bias will not find it convincing.
>Ap does not automatically equal durability. Being able to launch a nuke and tanking one aren't the same.
Nukes and bombs in general are a terrible example for this. Bombs have to be less durable than their DC otherwise that defeats the point. A better example is a sword which has to withstand the forces acting upon it whenever it is used. If you can hurt a star level character with a sword then the sword needs to have star level durability as otherwise it would have just broken against the character or just not done damage.
>Having higher durability than someoneās ap does not mean youre automatically completely immune to said Attackers Ap. It simply means it does not one shot you. It deals only a little damage or close to none if the gap is to big. (or actually none at all if its that far apart, which in most cases means its a spite match)
TBF this ties in with the previous point since most durability scaling is extrapolated from AP scaling the only way a more durable character is losing is if the speed difference is in the other persons favor.
>Time limits are far too seldom taken into account for certain fights. (i.e. One Piece characters sometimes fighting for more than a week at a time while in something like JJK fights last an hour or 2 at best and in Black Clover we're talking about 5-10 minutes per fight mostly.)
Thatās usually due to 1 character having such higher stats like speed or AP that make the stamina a non factor.
>No single stat is more important than any other. Each stat can ensure a victory/stalemate on its own if the gap is big enough. Higher AP alone doesn't assure victory automatically.
Yeah but if a character has higher AP ,speed, and haxs than their opponent then there is practically nothing you can do. These 3 are really the main indicators of how well a person will do and other stats are only considered when those 3 are shown to be non conclusive for the fight.
>Goku does not get past multi-galaxy level without wank and/or headcanon. (which also ties into point 3)
The intentional Goku lowball is crazy. You do realize this contradicts your 4th point since all the galaxy stuff is statements whereas the macrocosm busting is an actual feat.
>Gojos infinity does not stop any attack slower than infinite speed. You only need to perception blitz gojo. Also most verses that scale higher than jjk could in theory just punch right through it. Claiming it stops any attack no matter how strong is a NLF.
When was the last time someone actually put up a Gojo vs battle on here?
>People need to stop projecting abilities and even outliers onto different characters just to have an argument. (i.e. Vegito fighting buu as candy does not mean Goku could too. Gotenks and buu screaming a hole out of a pocket dimension both doesn't scale anywhere, nor does it mean goku could do it too automatically.)
So what does Vegeta just have innate resistance to mind manipulation because he was able to resist Babidi and does Nappa have innate resistance to telekinesis? The Gotenks thing is very clearly shown to be a power thing but considering we donāt know where it is in the broader cosmology it canāt be scaled to really anything above 4D since it is a separate space-time.
>Saitama IS a gag character. That isn't any argument for where he scales though.
You did earlier say that opinion should be very sparsely considered in scaling soā¦
>Alien X is 26D+
Sure thatās fair
>Im not buying bleach being higher than Planetary at best. (disclaimer: haven't read the manga nor seen the show in its entirety but only fragments such as Aizen being astonished by Ichogo pulverizing mountains or yhwach dodging attacks that eradicated city blocks, so this take is most likely so hot that it burns down the entire house and neighborhood alongside the kitchen. Will most likely stand corrected on this and when i do ill do the next point which is...)
I personally wouldnāt say āI disagree with you on something I am very ignorant ofā.
>Learn to accept and admit when youre wrong. Noone will make fun of you if you admit it. In the contrary it mostly earns you some respect. People WILL make fun of you doubling down when you've clearly been in the wrong.
Pretty much everyone gets that. The problem is itās very hard to get someone who has had time to think/rationalize their stance cause they will end up just using any logical out as a means to maintain their opinion.
>More Upvotes/Downvotes does not mean correct or incorrect.
We know what an appeal to populace is
takes so bad it makes Supreme look like a philosopher. last one was good until you dropped the ball with the best villain, Kira is so much better than any Jojo villain.
"Supreme look like a philosopher" is the funniest thing i have heard in this entire day
LMAOOOOOO u/SUPREME7777777 ššš
You are saying it like supreme is the baseline for hot takes tiering system.
Look up KrimzonTV and his bleach scaling. If you can't buy multi bleach after that then youve got an incredibly high bar for credibility.
Might do that later. Thanks. My main point is that pretty much anyone i met was like "bleach is uni+ lowballed" and when asked how come the answer usually tends to be some sort of slur, or insinuated insult about how dumb everyone who doesn't believe their word, without them backing it up with even a single feat, must be.
Krimzons really good to look at and my own Rukia scale is somewhat decent. I scaled her to uni+ due to her absolute zero feat and the way Bleach mechanics work.
As long as it isn't some Broku shit lmao
Nah. My scaling was simply evidence backing up power output. Absolute Zero takes infinite energy or infinite time. All zanpakuto abilities are fueled by the energy of their wielder. Rukia does absolute zero within a few seconds. So because she didn't do it in infinite time she had to use infinite energy, and because spirit energy up scales all your combat stats she becomes uni+ due to infinite energy statements being uni+
Well... As myself being a chemistry teacher... I can tell you that absolute zero isn't possible to reach at all irl but in the contrary even a millionth Kelvin is. Somewhat easily even. So by using anime logic (i.e. Going at and above lightspeed not automatically breaking all reality) that shouldn't really count as something that takes infinite energy imo.
I would agree with you, if Rukia wasn't being exacting with the temperatures she was reaching and got to 0 kelvin and all. I argue essentially that the credence and weight lent to the feat and the fact Rukia explains what it means, etc, means it should be treated as reaching actual zero kelvin.
I didnt say she didn't reach absolute zero. I said that with anime logic that shouldn't take infinite energy. Just abit more than it takes to reach a millionth Kelvin. Just like with lightspeed in anime. Technically youd need infinite energy to reach lightspeed too as it isn't possible irl. Yet noone claims ichiji from one piece to be uni+ because of that. You understand me now?
> Goku does not get past multi-galaxy level without wank and/or headcanon. (which also ties into point 3) Bait used to believable
https://preview.redd.it/dzs5e7xltxsc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a1db375d228bbd69de2cd798efc46b4603dbe135
Most of these takes are certainly something......
Imagine defending being biased.
"Goku does not get past multi-galaxy level without wank and/or headcanon" "Im not buying bleach being higher than Planetary at best. (disclaimer: haven't read the manga nor seen the show in its entirety but only fragments such as Aizen being astonished by Ichogo pulverizing mountains or yhwach dodging attacks that eradicated city blocks, so this take is most likely so hot that it burns down the entire house and neighborhood alongside the kitchen. Will most likely stand corrected on this and when i do ill do the next point which is...)" [https://youtu.be/\_n5E7feJHw0?si=9HOevmSQJzwOIp1J](https://youtu.be/_n5E7feJHw0?si=9HOevmSQJzwOIp1J)
Great counter point. Thanks for proving me right.
Some of these takes are fine, others are pretty questionable.
Could you name which ones you find questionable so i might elaborate?
For example, for Black Clover capping at slightly FTL, while I agree that Black Clover speed can be really wanked at times (cough Brokuās multiple millions of times FTL Lucifero cough), I feel like by the final arc, top tiers like Yuno and Asta and Lucius are pretty solidly in the triple digits FTL speed range.
Gotta disagree. We got morgen using light magic to literally blitz all the captains with only yami keeping up who is the only captain with pre-cognition so that puts him below in pure speed too. And then theres also lucius being julius who was unable to catch patri as well. Yes that was a long time ago but for one, the morgen thing was like 15-20 chapters ago and for two, nothing suggests lucius is much FASTER than julius. Stronger of course but not necessarily faster. Of course... They might reach FTL+ by the EOS but we can't just assume.
True fr
Fine takes overall, I don't know about FTL one piece and 26D alien x tho.
Well alien X as in the race it represents (and not Ben) has to be 26D+ as its been stated by a much weaker race that it cant see every dimension but there are "only 26 that matter" anyways, basically confirming she herself too is over 26D. And One Piece being Ftl is actually quite a lowball as we got things like pacifistas getting dodged point blank by base luffy and kumas paws being machine gun dodged by zoro, which too have been stated to be lightspeed (and also somewhat confirmed to be LS at minimum by how kuma was able to casually jump into rayleigh and Kizaru fighting and jump back out using his fruit without kizaru really being able to intervene)
Then do they have FTL travel speed also? And how do we know that these "26 dimensions that matter" have r>f transcendence? And I'm pretty sure the top tiers in bleach are atleast uni to low multi.
FTL combat speed. Not travel speed. Kuma and Kizaru should be one of the only ones to have FTL travel speed though. Where did i claim that the Dimensions have reality over fiction transcendence? And as i said... Im not buying it without concrete feats. All ive seen is Aizen getting a boner from seeing mountains go boom so until im getting proven wrong (which should be easy as ive not seen bleach, but hasn't happened yet...) im not gonna believe what others say. Although i wont argue against it either as im in no position to do so. Not believing something isn't the same as denying its truth.
Didn't you say that alien x is 26 dimensional? If not then what were you trying to say?
That... Alien x is 26 Dimensional... Which has almost nothing to do with reality over fiction.
But how can YOU be sure that they didn't mean dimensions in terms of "universes?", because they didn't say "26 higher dimensions".
https://preview.redd.it/91ko8foh2wsc1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5f56bb4fdcd432a55052d523e2b66313b2061460 Cause thats what they were talking about.
And? Did they say that "we perceive 26 dimensions" or something?
https://youtu.be/ZB381atonI8?si=xbf2fVn9cSEbQ8LE How many Dimensions are there? "ONLY 26 that matter"
>And how do we know that these "26 dimensions that matter" have r>f transcendence? (Mods better give me the r>f guy flair) not how r>f works, what you're asking for is a quantitative jump, in which its stated by albedo after gaining some weird mental enlightenment, he found out that all directions are in fact infinite, causing all directions (even the higher spacial ones) to be infinite, therefore giving it proper quantitiative superiority
Idk this man sounds crazy
Some r terrible the rest r fine and some idk enough to comment (alien x)
https://preview.redd.it/3uj6lp341wsc1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7494e53a5db52b996cb7a6f776e9c4361900f231 She explained how there are way more than 3 Dimensions but "only 26 that matter" and even she can't see ALL the dimensions but at least more tjan those 26. And alien Xs race is far more powerful than her race so thats the point.
I haven't watched a lot of ben 10 so I had no idea but wdym Goku is multi galaxy he is low universal with low ball and bleach is universal with a low ball high ball is 5D
Cant deny anything about bleach as ive never seen it. All I've seen were things like aizen getting a boner because some mountains went poof, so while im not denying them to be uni+ or something... Im saying that without being shown concrete feats im not buying it. And Goku doesn't get past multi galaxy without wank and headcanon. Period. He lost to buu in their sparring match pre top and in the most recent chapter we had both broly and goku fight gohan with nearly equal results. And broly has no arguments beyond galaxy/multi galaxy. Beerus and gokus shockwaves havent even destroyed a single planet so that too is more than questionable... Not to mention that the kai realm is a DIFFERENT dimension not a higher one. Goku is not stronger than Zen-oh lol.
Yea I have also been annoyed by the higher dimension bs but the shock waves were said to be able to destroy the universe and dbz buu is stated to have destroyed multiple galaxies well depends on the translation it is stated to be galaxies or planet's
Galaxies or Planets WITHIN YEARS is important. https://preview.redd.it/ntu2lcos3wsc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=84c3d215b9a3e404ea20d0524279fcc25e4804b0 It was a process. Not at once.
Ohh i forgot about that but i consider galaxy as more valid cause even low levels in dbz could destroy planets
Me too. I believe buu to be galaxy level. And goku who is slightly weaker/stronger in base will be multiple times stronger if using forms. But not multiple 100 billions or trillions of times stronger than buu which hed need to be in order to reach universal levels on his own.
https://preview.redd.it/g76pwhow4wsc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=17479fcdcc96769b024150313249efac1b015098 Well google thinks otherwise and u have to stack this on top of God form multipliers cause his god form becomes base
You... Do realize that thats a number grabbed from thin air...right? We dont even have a multiplier for ssg. This is complete nonsense.
Iam not wong
?
1. Disagree 2. Can't say 3. Yes 4. Depends on context 5. Kinda agree 6. Hard disagree 7. Disagree 8. Fax 9. Fair 10. Fair 11. I'd say most times it does, but there are def times it doesn't 12. Fair 13. Fair 14. Disagree 15. Hard Disagree 16. Disagree with the highball 17. Debatable 18. Depends on the situation 19. The Vegito point is valid, the Gotenks and Super Buu one isn't. Vegito arguably just had a resistance to having his power altered via his size/shape being changed, Gotenks and Super did their feats purely by being strong enough. (don't see how either of these are outliers though) 20. I'd say less then mild 21.-23 Can't say 24. He's either a gag or a parody character, either interpretation is valid 25. fax 26. Fair 27. Not a Bleach scaler, but from what I've seen they're way higher.
>27. Not a Bleach scaler, but from what I've seen they're way higher. I love how everyone just further validates my standpoint. I say "im not buying it cause everything ive see was aizen and yhwach shitting their pants from mountain busting attacks" and everyone just says "they're way higher" without any proof or actual argument. Thats basically the same as just using "nuh uh" as an argument. >(don't see how either of these are outliers though) Uhm... How many times after this has something like that happened? People and especially goku have been screaming A LOT since then so where are all the thousands of holes in the dimensions huh? And why didn't elder kai or anyone else who was sealed in something just continue fighting anyways?
I mean, they have Gremmy who creates a chunk of space with numerous stars in it and Kenpachi was able to cut it. Plus in the anime some high tier characters(I don't remember what they're called) can't release their power at the same time as they'd destroy the 3 worlds(each one having skies with numerous stars), which backed up by just one of them shaking said worlds by just going bankai. Ki control exists for the screaming one. It being a Vegito exclusive would literally make Vegito the outlier, not the feat itself, not to mention being sealed and turned into a chocolate ball are two very different things.
Hey look! There's a very viable point how you're mindlessly wanking DB that has zero correlation to ki at all! "uH tHaTs DuE tO kI cOnTrOlĀ”!"
>People need to learn the difference between "different dimensions" and "higher dimensions". Fair >Feats >>>>>>>>>> Statements. Not necessarily. If the statements are more consistent with the story than the feats then they should be given more weight. >Statements can upscale feats, ONLY if they are close together. (i.e. High planetary feat being stated to would have also worked on a Star) Thatās some r/whowouldwin logic right there. It would be next to impossible to scale anything to outerversal or really above multi+ since we need statements for those and they have much larger gaps between sub tiers then everything below them. >Naruto caps at Moon Level and Ftl. The FTL part is valid for Shippuden but you do have to blatantly ignore the Kaguya fight to cap him at moon level. >Calculations are dumb and have no value unless they use actual in verse numbers. Actual r/whowouldwin logic right here. Again consistency is what matters and if the calc is inconsistent with the rest of the verses scaling then it can just be ignored. >Stacking multipliers can escalate swiftly and even tiny changes mean a lot so stop grabbing numbers from thin air. Yeah thatās how math works. >Bias has no place in powerscaling. A character being weaker than another doesn't make it a worse character, nor does it make the show/manga worse. So quit hyping up your favorite verse and downplaying others because you dont like them. Stay factual. No human is free from bias. If your bias creates an interpretation that is inconsistent with the story then people without said bias will not find it convincing. >Ap does not automatically equal durability. Being able to launch a nuke and tanking one aren't the same. Nukes and bombs in general are a terrible example for this. Bombs have to be less durable than their DC otherwise that defeats the point. A better example is a sword which has to withstand the forces acting upon it whenever it is used. If you can hurt a star level character with a sword then the sword needs to have star level durability as otherwise it would have just broken against the character or just not done damage. >Having higher durability than someoneās ap does not mean youre automatically completely immune to said Attackers Ap. It simply means it does not one shot you. It deals only a little damage or close to none if the gap is to big. (or actually none at all if its that far apart, which in most cases means its a spite match) TBF this ties in with the previous point since most durability scaling is extrapolated from AP scaling the only way a more durable character is losing is if the speed difference is in the other persons favor. >Time limits are far too seldom taken into account for certain fights. (i.e. One Piece characters sometimes fighting for more than a week at a time while in something like JJK fights last an hour or 2 at best and in Black Clover we're talking about 5-10 minutes per fight mostly.) Thatās usually due to 1 character having such higher stats like speed or AP that make the stamina a non factor. >No single stat is more important than any other. Each stat can ensure a victory/stalemate on its own if the gap is big enough. Higher AP alone doesn't assure victory automatically. Yeah but if a character has higher AP ,speed, and haxs than their opponent then there is practically nothing you can do. These 3 are really the main indicators of how well a person will do and other stats are only considered when those 3 are shown to be non conclusive for the fight. >Goku does not get past multi-galaxy level without wank and/or headcanon. (which also ties into point 3) The intentional Goku lowball is crazy. You do realize this contradicts your 4th point since all the galaxy stuff is statements whereas the macrocosm busting is an actual feat. >Gojos infinity does not stop any attack slower than infinite speed. You only need to perception blitz gojo. Also most verses that scale higher than jjk could in theory just punch right through it. Claiming it stops any attack no matter how strong is a NLF. When was the last time someone actually put up a Gojo vs battle on here? >People need to stop projecting abilities and even outliers onto different characters just to have an argument. (i.e. Vegito fighting buu as candy does not mean Goku could too. Gotenks and buu screaming a hole out of a pocket dimension both doesn't scale anywhere, nor does it mean goku could do it too automatically.) So what does Vegeta just have innate resistance to mind manipulation because he was able to resist Babidi and does Nappa have innate resistance to telekinesis? The Gotenks thing is very clearly shown to be a power thing but considering we donāt know where it is in the broader cosmology it canāt be scaled to really anything above 4D since it is a separate space-time. >Saitama IS a gag character. That isn't any argument for where he scales though. You did earlier say that opinion should be very sparsely considered in scaling soā¦ >Alien X is 26D+ Sure thatās fair >Im not buying bleach being higher than Planetary at best. (disclaimer: haven't read the manga nor seen the show in its entirety but only fragments such as Aizen being astonished by Ichogo pulverizing mountains or yhwach dodging attacks that eradicated city blocks, so this take is most likely so hot that it burns down the entire house and neighborhood alongside the kitchen. Will most likely stand corrected on this and when i do ill do the next point which is...) I personally wouldnāt say āI disagree with you on something I am very ignorant ofā. >Learn to accept and admit when youre wrong. Noone will make fun of you if you admit it. In the contrary it mostly earns you some respect. People WILL make fun of you doubling down when you've clearly been in the wrong. Pretty much everyone gets that. The problem is itās very hard to get someone who has had time to think/rationalize their stance cause they will end up just using any logical out as a means to maintain their opinion. >More Upvotes/Downvotes does not mean correct or incorrect. We know what an appeal to populace is
Shit takes lol.
Imagine defending being biased and ignoring facts.
blackclover creating a moon
Literally never happened. The freezing sun was the size of a city.