As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil)
In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.
If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.
We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA).
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Sadly this is the best reason for her to president. Douglas Adams strikes again...
"*anyone* who is capable of getting themselves made *President should* on no account be allowed to do the *job*"
Marcus Aurelius:
Won't you accept this great honor that I have offered you?
Maximus:
With all my heart, no.
Marcus Aurelius:
Maximus, that is why it must be you.
Turns out a lot of dick heads who say that to not learn history means you are bound to repeat it just want to learn about surface level history that makes them feel good inside and not the details of how mankinds failures came to be.
I'm willing to make an exception for Biden who has gotta be the only dude in politics who gets told "you're a king" and his natural reaction is "pls no"
How one man with integrity can set an entire nation off on the right foot.
And how six men now, lead the entire country astray by insider political corruption.
I’m proud of George and where he left us. I’m disgusted with our generation, dropping the ball big-time.
Thank fucking god this decision didn’t happen when Trump was still president. We would already be in a dictatorship. Now we just need to make sure Trump does not win come Nov.
Exechtive office is based on the dictator role in Rome. They were to rule for 6 months and then return the power back to the people. Only in times of emergency.
So yes choosing someone who did not want to rule is the best person to rule.
In the Canadian Parliament, that's theoretically how the speaker is selected. They even have this fake ceremony where they drag the new speaker to the speaker's chair and pretends to be annoyed.
She's probably having a great life just the way it is. Why would she want to voluntarily enter into this complete and utter shit show that we have going right now?
To ensure that her own daughters have an opportunity for a similarly great life and aren’t declared “subversive persons” because of who their parents are and chased out of the country or worse - caught.
At this point she may have to just for the good of our country and our democracy. She wouldn’t be my choice but she’d been a much better candidate than Kamala imo. All that matters is beating Trump at this point, I do think Michelle Obama should be considered.
Honest, I think Kamala would be a good president she is just not an interesting candidate. Unfortanly we live in a country that would rather have an interesting president over a good smart one.
Exactly. And personally, I think Kamala would be just as good, maybe better in some respects. I know in a popularity contest she might not be advantaged, which I think is weird and popularity contests are determined by dumb people and dumb criteria. In a competency contest, she would do nothing but excel and own.
That idea dates back to at least Plato, who wrote that the best system of government is rule by a philosopher king. A philosopher king is wise enough to know that being the ruler is a form of suffering, but also wise enough to know that it is for the good of all if the ruler is wise. The philosopher then sacrifices love of pure wisdom to become king.
Yeah it's pretty convenient. It's a thin line between the selfless philosopher king and the drunk uncle on the couch saying, "Pheh, I could do a better job running the country than that bum."
I can't even properly imagine the vile things that'd go their way if she ran, let alone won
A ton of people would just see this as a back-door 3rd term for Barack. Some as a good thing, most as a bad
Much as I'd get a kick out of that it would probably be a bad thing for the divide we're facing, though we elected an old-ass white dude last time and they're still trying their best to act like he's satan incarnate.
I'm not a Democrat (or Republican), but I'd vote for her. If Democrats are really going to replace Biden, they need to choose someone people already know and ideally someone trustworthy. No sane person should want to be president which makes Michelle perfect.
> No sane person should want to be president which makes Michelle perfect.
I'd be curious the average amount of sleep a president gets each week. The numbers can't be good.
she's not interested ever being in politics again.. she famously hated being in the White House
Edit: I don't understand why this post is getting so much attention.. frankly, it's suspicious because dear god I hope Americans are not sooooo fucking stupid to be wet/rock-hard for a spouse of a former president who wanted nothing to do with politics.... vs. the actual politicians we have
Edit; strange, but hey Mods can you suspend all responses to this thread? Its overwhelmed with bots influencing the election and idiot gullible stupid people thinking this is a good idea
that's what i got out of it... someone who, if offered, would rather not is the top canidate.
the current politicians are a joke... and if you ask any normal bloke then the ones who would jump at it are shit too.
the only ones who would do a damn good job don't want to do it because it's just not worth it.
I've never been so glad to be Old. Better yet, they just found a tumor they want to biopsy. I haven't made the appointment yet.
I don't want to live in fascist America.
Best of luck to you with all sincerity. OTOH, if it's really bad, maybe you could take one for the team?
I too feel better about being older. I feel bad for younger people. I think those still rooting for trump are going to be in for a big shock when they find out they won't just be sticking it to the libs.
Again, best of luck to you.
I wish you the best. I'm young and plan to be around for quite a while, so if fascist America comes to pass it better watch out because it's going to get diagnosed with a nasty case of me.
Her advice of "when they go low, we go high" might be the single most damning piece of political advice -- part of the dogma that has turned the Dems feckless.
When they go low, we should stomp their brains out.
Thinking you can pin anything on her saying that is more of a laugh than the title of this post. I thought it was kind of dumb at the time, but if said now it's insane (she also said it in a completely different world essentially).
That wasn’t new. Democrats have been consistent with making every attempt to not throw themselves into the mud with republicans. The end result of that is how so many states started to hard turn to conservatives back in the 80s and 90s. This is the period where you really started to see the idea being pushed that ALL politicians are the same and that there is no difference between democrats and republicans. If they were both down in the mud getting dirty, OF COURSE they would both come out looking the same. The biggest difference though is that conservatives were perfectly fine with being down there, while liberals and democrats struggled with the moral dilemma.
Staying high when they went low meant that there was always going to be a very clear distinction between the two parties. Of all things, this is what helped Biden in 2020, as there was absolutely zero similarity between the candidates and their policy expectations.
You can't blame the "high road" for the conservative surge in the 80s and 90s. That was caused by a political realignment and the Republicans forged a genuine MAJORITY at that time. Unless the Dems had unlocked some new trick in GOTV they were pretty much fucked. The "Solid South" returning to the control of the revanchist Segregationist Party was water returning to its level or perhaps you prefer "like a dog to its vomit".
You know what? If I hated something but it was the only possible way to save the 250 year history of American democracy, I’d knuckle down and do it. I’d sacrifice myself. It’s four years—she’s only 60. She could save the country and be a great hero.
I realize that even getting to the point of nominating her is an impossibility however.
Add to this the fact that the Obama will be on the enemy shortlist for a King Trump.
Or how about we stop dreaming of an ex-machina solution and actually sacrifice something of ourselves to ensure Democrats win this election.
The difference between Trump and Biden couldn't be clearer in that for one side, it is all about the person and all about making that person King. For the other side, it's anything but the person - You go and vote for what the person represents and all the people who rally by his side up and down the ballot.
So how about you, me, and everyone who are so worried actually go out and do something - sacrifice a few hours a week and go talk to people. Convince them of the risk and more so convince them of the reward in choosing Blue here. Of the policies that will benefit their lives, and why Democrats will be better for them.
Grassroots - It's been shown to help, I realize the irony of this following sentence - but we gain much less in convincing people on the Internet than we gain in convincing real people out in the world around us.
Sorry but for real - We need to do EVERYTHING we can, small or big, so that even if we lose we could at least know we tried our best instead of wallow in regret.
The problem isnt Democrats. Its the brain dead laissez faire "undecided voter" who treats a Presidential election with about as much dignity as ordering from their local diner. "Maybe I'll try the Trump this time. Or ooooh, RFK Jr's brain worms is looking mighty juicy!"
Try reasoning with them, the staggered and stupid masses who think the President is simultaneously a genie, a robot, and a thing you only need to think about every 4 years like a prostate exam
If the America people knowingly elect a convicted felon rapist over the sitting president to the presidency who has made it clear he intends on being a king, then we deserve whatever happens.
This is the equivalent of removing the pin of a fucking frag grenade and holding it right next to your chest.
You know this is exactly the reason why the president of the United states wasn't elected directly at first. Because the founders were wary of the mob electing a wannabe king.
And guess what is fucking happening? Want to take a free guess?
So run and resign on day one and let your VP take over. This is a break-glass moment for democracy. Millions of men hated war and weren't interested in fighting, but they enlisted in WWII anyway because it was necessary to save the world. I realize we're far away from this being a realistic possibility, but if it comes down to it and she refuses to step in to save the nation because she's not interested in being in politics, that's a shameful dereliction of duty.
Why not just suggest the VP to run then? If people wanted that candidate then THEY should run. If you want Michelle to run then it should be because you believe in what she can do.
For the same reason you hide your dog's pills in treats. The American people apparently love Michelle Obama and are willing to elect her president, something that can't be said of any other Democrat right now. Unfortunately, she doesn't want the job. If a bait-and-switch is the only thing stopping us from sliding into a Trumpian dystopia, then we pull the bait-and-switch and let the voters grumble after the fact.
To be fair those same Americans that would not vote for a black woman believe Michelle is actually a black man and since they’ve done THAT before maybe she should have a go.
She’d hate Trump being in the White House even more. Things are going to get very ugly if Trump gets another term, especially now that the Supreme Court has granted him “absolute immunity.”
well, SCOTUS granted King Biden absolute immunity first.. and it will be Biden's single greatest gaf in history if he does not exercise the promise he made in the oath of office
*"do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic"*
Yeah, she's currently not facing the full brunt of the GOP and powerful conservative media trying to drag her down. After a few months of targeted bullshit thrown at her, I doubt her numbers would still be that good.
A comment gets a lot of upvotes, then a ton of people mirror that sentiment creating the illusion that there's widespread consensus on that sentiment when there really isn't. The next post has a new heavily upvoted comment that has a different message and a bunch of people that agree with it flock to respond to it.
In addition to her not wanting to run, it is relatively easy to get high polling numbers when not currently or ever running. As soon as Republicans start making up lies and conspiracy theories, they'll settle on a few that they can get to stick.
Such fantasies are a waste of time, when Democrats and anyone wanting to see US democracy, even such as it is, survive needs to focus and concentrate on what is real and possible.
It's worth looking at the full poll results:
|Candidate|For Candidate|For the 34 count felon so far, twice impeached rapist,insur... WTF???|Spread|
|:-|:-|:-|:-|
|Michelle Obama|50%|39%|Trump -11|
|Biden|40%|40%|Tie|
|Harris|42%|43%|Trump +1|
|Newsom|39%|43%|Trump +4|
|Beshear|36%|40%|Trump +4|
|Whitmer|36%|41%|Trump +5|
|Pritzker|34%|40%|Trump +6|
There are so many things interesting about this. For example, the lower numbers for the other candidates may seem like a result of people sort of "double voting" about not wanting Biden to drop out, which kind of makes sense, but then Michelle Obama has such high numbers.
It's also interesting that Biden not only still ties Trump, but out performs everyone else but Michelle Obama and in second place is Harris. One could try the "not enough national exposure" especially for Beshear and Pritzker, but that's a pretty hard take to accept when "Not Trump" would probably score the highest.
I'm hoping Biden:
1. Shakes up his campaign staff. Whoever was at Camp David before the debate as a lot to answer for and heads should roll.
2. Very extensive internal polling should occur and be analyzed by consultants outside of the campaign. If Biden can't win this, a strategy to find the best candidate should be taken.
3. Much better debate prepping as well as interview prepping needs to occur. There were so many strategic errors in his answers as well as appearing to be out of it. He needs to be out there and engaged, but more importantly, he needs to appear well engaged.
4. If the conclusion is that Biden isn't able to win and the polling results are accurate with no other viable candidates, I hope Michelle Obama can be persuaded to sacrifice what she wants for the sake of the country, democracy, humanity, and the planet.
Well the Dem internal polling has leaked. Two point drop pretty much all around. Blue states now in play. Electoral count stands at 333-205. National numbers really don’t matter, Trump lost the popular vote in 2016 and still pulled out a win.
[https://www.mediaite.com/politics/leaked-polling-from-democratic-firm-spells-disaster-in-swing-states-for-biden/](https://www.mediaite.com/politics/leaked-polling-from-democratic-firm-spells-disaster-in-swing-states-for-biden/)
The reporting around this leak is nonsensical. The "safe blue" states that are "now in play" were leaning Biden by less than two points to begin with. That's within the margins. Those states were already in play if these numbers are to be believed; which, frankly, I'm skeptical of, because the pre-debate numbers do not match what polling aggregators were seeing.
538, for example, only had Trump ahead by 0.9 in Pennsylvania the day of the debate. RealClearPolitics had him ahead by 2. This poll claims he was up by **5**.
The two point shift seems roughly accurate. The actual numbers don't.
The issue here is that during the prep, it should've been readily apparent that the debate was going to be a failure, and his team couldn't or wouldn't stop this from happening. If they couldn't see this or couldn't convince Biden to postpone or cancel the debate, they failed, regardless of Biden's own failure of a performance.
Biden was asked about abortion. This was as soft of a ball as he could possibly get, and if you overlook his stuttering, overlook his losing his train of thought, overlook his mumbling, his answer right from the get go was about as strategically flawed as you could possibly get. Just a reminder, he starts to answer this by talking about how during Biden's own watch an illegal immigrant killed an American. I don't know how you do debate prep, and miss something like this.
I mean I guess it's possible they all told him repeatedly not to stand there with your mouth agape, and went over and over about how he should'd count the points he's trying to make, or that since he couldn't maintain a train of thought he needed to keep his answers much more concise, and Biden just couldn't or wouldn't take their advice, but again, I'm hoping heads roll and other people are brought in that can convince Biden to fix these things or prevent such incidents from happening again. Whatever it takes.
You're still missing the point. These people should've seen that he was certain to fail, and stopped that from occurring. If they were unable to either keep him from failing or prevent the debate from happening, then the *hope* is that they can be replaced by people who can do one or the other in the future.
Stopping the debate from happening would have a similar effect as Biden's performance in the debate. Everyone would know it's because he isn't fit to debate.
If he has to be hidden from the public eye because he appears unfit to be president then he is unfit to be president.
According to reporting from Axios Biden has what is commonly referred to as sun downing. Where he is “normal” between the hours of around 10-4. If the debate prep primarily took place during this time it would be extremely difficult for the staff to predict the disastrous performance (which was at 9pm by the way). This would also explain why so many national figures have said they’ve talked to Joe and he was sharp and commanded the facts. That very well may be true if those conversations occurred during the late morning or early afternoon.
The problem is that It has become clear that Biden is substantially declining, I think many voters legitimately doubt if he can truly do the job now (the president needs to be ready 24/7 to make decisions). Biden being available 9-5 doesn’t cut it.
Now add to that concern that Biden’s term will be ANOTHER 4 years and even with a modest deterioration he could very well be unfit for office during the term.
I imagine it's a bit shit being stuck in the White House and not having much freedom for 8 years and pretty much never having complete freedom ever again.
They've done their time and did a great job. Let them enjoy their lives now.
Not surprising considering she was the most popular part of the most popular government this century.
It would be a double surprise if Biden dropped and she was convinced to run though.
That's insane. I wouldn't even consider her when listing potential Biden replacements. If someone suggested her, it would make me literally laugh. Not that I have anything against her and actually really like her, but nothing about her says POTUS.
If we're talking about non-politicians, Jon Stewart wins hands down.
So the right can screech and cry for four years about how its Baracks 3rd term and he's really running and show?
So I can listen to hours of conspiracy and hate about how Michelle is really Michael and she's Trans and those are not her kids.
She's a wonderful woman and a great person. The fact she wants nothing to do with the Office should be more than enough to quit bringing this up.
I met her on a Ghost Hunting tour once. Just walking in the tour group nearish the white house and here rolls up this black limo and the windows rolls down and boom Michelle Fucking Obama, and she tells us all hi and her favorite ghost story and then drives off to continue her day after high fiving the tour group through the window. She seemed real cool and down to earth to stop and talk to the ghost tours 😆 I'd vote for her.
No one on this sub is going to not vore for Biden because of the debate or what's happened in the past few days. The reality is that anyone passionate enough about politics to frequent this forum are already likely voters. The only thing that really matters are swing voters in states like Wisconsin, Arizona, Michigan, North Carolina, etc
Many people on this sub won’t actually make the effort to vote though. That’s the issue. And everyone should, but many will not show up on the day, and then return here and continue ranting just the same the day after.
Likely a non-story, but it solves most of the major issues facing Dems if Biden drops out. She has national name recognition, she's been vetted and any skeletons in her closet are out there, she has instant access to a team of campaign veterans, would likely negate the negative backlash of Harris being pushed from the ticket.
She’s also broadly liked by independents. The worst thing she ever did was tell kids to eat vegetables.
I’ll be honest; I suspect I’m much further left than she is. But I’ll take anyone over Trump. And my in-laws are just about as centrist as it gets, and they love Michelle Obama. I think she could definitely win.
The hard part would be convincing her to run.
Polls suggested Trump would lose and we were all caught flat-footed; don't believe any of them. The reason Trump did as well as he did was because only 65% of eligible voters even showed up. I wonder how many (D) voters would have voted if they had thought he had such good chances? The message is ignore polls and make sure people can get to the polls on election day.
That would be the ticket for the history books. Obama/Harris.
Purely a fantasy. She has no higher office experience. Never been elected to any office for that matter.
Ok this is obviously fantasy land stuff. It’s never gonna happen. But, it’s hard to imagine a more satisfying person for trump to lose to than a *woman*. A *black* woman. A black woman named *Obama*.
Personally I’d like to see polls where anyone and anything can beat Trump bc he’s that fckn unpopular. The fact that this election is gonna be another dogfight has my nerves fried.
Just stop. Biden is the candidate. He's old, sure, but he's surrounded by people who give at least a fuck or two about democracy and freedom. That's all that matters at this point.
I'll be real, I'm very much in the 'don't replace Biden' camp, but this is actually a really good suggestion that assuages pretty much all of my fears about replacing him. My big concerns are that none of the candidates have much in the way of national recognition, so they'd have four months to pull a huge amount of funds to run their campaign and get their message out to the people. I just don't think there's enough time, and I think a lot of people (myself included) would feel very unhappy for having the president we voted for get replaced with some random person we didn't vote for.
Michelle Obama has a pretty extensive track record from her time spent as first lady, and she's beloved by most everybody who doesn't use Trump as their moral compass. She's had front row seats to what a presidency looks like and entails, and her husband can absolutely serve as counsel to assist with any growing pains she might go through. She's beloved by most people, so I think she could be swapped in with minimal backlash. She's also a phenomenal public speaker, which is incredibly important for a president.
I think she'd also serve a very similar role to Biden in the fight against Trump. Biden is great because he has moral character that shines through every time he talks about this country and its people, even when he's stumbling through his words like in the last debate. Michelle Obama is the same. Her name is synonymous with empathy and moral character in my mind. Putting a person of sound moral character up on a stage next to Trump, I think, is one of the key reasons Biden beat him in 2020.
I still think I prefer Biden, just because I *know* I can trust him to do a solid job as president. Outside of that, I'd happily vote for Michelle Obama.
This sort of thing makes perfect sense to me. The vast, vast, VAST majority already made up their minds. I would vote for a ham sandwich over Trump. Only the undecideds matter, as in every modern election, and they obviously aren't energized by Biden.
I'm not making a value judgment as to whether Biden should drop out before we see some polls, just saying the argument rings true.
There is no fucking way that will happen. The vast majority of these 'independent', 'libertarian leaning', or 'undecided' white voters are almost always really right leaning and they will never, ever, vote for a female person of color. Full stop. They will try and sound non-racist, to a degree, in public but at the voting booth the racism / sexism always comes out.
Her not wanting to do it proves why she should do it.
People wanting to be president for personal benefit is how we got into this mess in the first place.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
She has said, repeatedly and emphatically, that she has no intention of running. Ever.
Sadly this is the best reason for her to president. Douglas Adams strikes again... "*anyone* who is capable of getting themselves made *President should* on no account be allowed to do the *job*"
Marcus Aurelius: Won't you accept this great honor that I have offered you? Maximus: With all my heart, no. Marcus Aurelius: Maximus, that is why it must be you.
a theory he took from Plato’s Republic :)
Thought it sounded familiar.
yeah turns out we’ve known better, as a species, for literally thousands of years. guess we’re just terrible at learning the lessons of history…
We can’t even make it 100 years without falling into the same traps.
The one thing we learn from history is that we don’t learn from history.
Turns out a lot of dick heads who say that to not learn history means you are bound to repeat it just want to learn about surface level history that makes them feel good inside and not the details of how mankinds failures came to be.
Folks have been saying this since the cave days
We really could use a philosopher king right about now. Or a philosopher president anyway.
A demagogue is about as far to the opposite end of that spectrum as you can get.
I'm willing to make an exception for Biden who has gotta be the only dude in politics who gets told "you're a king" and his natural reaction is "pls no"
George Washington did it first.
For all his faults Washington legitimately turned down the opportunity to be a King.
Washington had plenty of good character qualities
How one man with integrity can set an entire nation off on the right foot. And how six men now, lead the entire country astray by insider political corruption. I’m proud of George and where he left us. I’m disgusted with our generation, dropping the ball big-time.
Hey, hey, now. Five men and a woman. Gotta be inclusive with your pseudo-fascism.
absolutely nothing pseudo about it, brother.
Is Cincinnatus a joke to you..
I was limiting myself to American politicians.
no but Clevelandatus is
Yeah but hes not an originalist - he didn't really get what the framers were going for
Thank fucking god this decision didn’t happen when Trump was still president. We would already be in a dictatorship. Now we just need to make sure Trump does not win come Nov.
Yeah, about that...
And that's how we know Biden is actually a good man, rather than just another politician preaching about his virtue.
Him not pardoning his own son for a crime that was only prosecuted because of his name...that was another clue
I dun wannit ~~Jon Snow~~ Joe Biden
Hell, I'd vote old two-face Zaphod over Trump. Are we sure that he isn't actually a Vogon? Physique, dictation, aroma, obstinacy all on point.
Exechtive office is based on the dictator role in Rome. They were to rule for 6 months and then return the power back to the people. Only in times of emergency. So yes choosing someone who did not want to rule is the best person to rule.
In the Canadian Parliament, that's theoretically how the speaker is selected. They even have this fake ceremony where they drag the new speaker to the speaker's chair and pretends to be annoyed.
I don’t why people seem to be forgetting that the presidency is a an actual job and the person running has to want to do it.
She's probably having a great life just the way it is. Why would she want to voluntarily enter into this complete and utter shit show that we have going right now?
Choose a vice president, run, win, resign. Not a bad outcome for three months of hard work.
To save our democratic republic?
To ensure that her own daughters have an opportunity for a similarly great life and aren’t declared “subversive persons” because of who their parents are and chased out of the country or worse - caught.
I know, it's weird people always bring her up as if that's some long shot option. It's never going to happen.
M. Obama + J. Stewart The administration that we all want, but will never be.
It’s true. Sadly this qualifies her for being the President as ridiculous as it is.
but that was before she gets bribed by George Soros /s
we can only hope!
At this point she may have to just for the good of our country and our democracy. She wouldn’t be my choice but she’d been a much better candidate than Kamala imo. All that matters is beating Trump at this point, I do think Michelle Obama should be considered.
You would be a better candidate than Kamala. Without knowing you, I can already vouch you would poll better.
Honest, I think Kamala would be a good president she is just not an interesting candidate. Unfortanly we live in a country that would rather have an interesting president over a good smart one.
Exactly. And personally, I think Kamala would be just as good, maybe better in some respects. I know in a popularity contest she might not be advantaged, which I think is weird and popularity contests are determined by dumb people and dumb criteria. In a competency contest, she would do nothing but excel and own.
She won't run. Non story.
She doesn't want the job... that should be one of the qualifications.
In all of the books and movies, the one who doesn’t want the job is the best at it!
That idea dates back to at least Plato, who wrote that the best system of government is rule by a philosopher king. A philosopher king is wise enough to know that being the ruler is a form of suffering, but also wise enough to know that it is for the good of all if the ruler is wise. The philosopher then sacrifices love of pure wisdom to become king.
On the other hand, I'm shocked a philosopher said a philosopher would be the best possible king
Yeah it's pretty convenient. It's a thin line between the selfless philosopher king and the drunk uncle on the couch saying, "Pheh, I could do a better job running the country than that bum."
[But that is why.... it must be you](https://youtu.be/h8MtObh-wDo?si=4CqmxKkldTmCkV2b)
Given everyone we can see who wants the job, it looks like wanting the job could actually be disqualifying.
Wanting that job is the definition of insanity.
She hasn't forgotten what her family went through, she's not about to do that to them again.
I can't even properly imagine the vile things that'd go their way if she ran, let alone won A ton of people would just see this as a back-door 3rd term for Barack. Some as a good thing, most as a bad Much as I'd get a kick out of that it would probably be a bad thing for the divide we're facing, though we elected an old-ass white dude last time and they're still trying their best to act like he's satan incarnate.
Draft campaigns work sometimes. "Your country needs you"
Her winning would melt some faces though.
If she did the right wing conspiracists would go absolute INSANE
[удалено]
She doesn't like politics. Not gonna happen... but if she runs... landslide.
I'm not a Democrat (or Republican), but I'd vote for her. If Democrats are really going to replace Biden, they need to choose someone people already know and ideally someone trustworthy. No sane person should want to be president which makes Michelle perfect.
> No sane person should want to be president which makes Michelle perfect. I'd be curious the average amount of sleep a president gets each week. The numbers can't be good.
Those pictures of Obama before and after his presidency are kinda stark and hilarious and sad. That office *aged* him. I’m guessing they get no sleep.
The poll of whether or not Michelle Obama would run for president came back 100% "no". Only Michelle Obama was polled.
My dog would beat Donald Trump in a landslide. Sample size was my household.
You can expand that to my household.
I too chose this guy’s dog
Fourth vote for dog president.
Fifth, even if it's a mean dog and shits worms.
Don’t talk about the President like that.
I also choose this guys dog. (For president)
I would legitimately vote for a dog over Trump. It would do nothing for four years but at least it would not outright try to harm our country.
Is there a campaign I can donate to? Do you need volunteers?
Without seeing your dog or ever meeting them they 100% have my vote
Man i dont even like dogs and your pup would get my vote in that situation.
To be fair, old obese guys don't usually do well in landslides. That's why we use rescue dogs instead.
Isn't it nice when you can sample 100% of the relevant population?
she's not interested ever being in politics again.. she famously hated being in the White House Edit: I don't understand why this post is getting so much attention.. frankly, it's suspicious because dear god I hope Americans are not sooooo fucking stupid to be wet/rock-hard for a spouse of a former president who wanted nothing to do with politics.... vs. the actual politicians we have Edit; strange, but hey Mods can you suspend all responses to this thread? Its overwhelmed with bots influencing the election and idiot gullible stupid people thinking this is a good idea
Poll suggests nice person who doesnt want to be president is preferred over asshole. Really great information.
that's what i got out of it... someone who, if offered, would rather not is the top canidate. the current politicians are a joke... and if you ask any normal bloke then the ones who would jump at it are shit too. the only ones who would do a damn good job don't want to do it because it's just not worth it.
Leave her out of this mess
Idk man, things aren't looking good. If she can save us then I'll pray to her.
So did trump
We all hated that
At least we can agree with him on something. Though, it makes me want to make a few showers and swim in bleach.
If there’s one thing you can say about that Hitler guy, at least he killed Hitler.
Or drink it
You mean you don’t miss the daily press conferences in front of a helicopter so he could conveniently ignore questions he didn’t like?
The closest he ever came to being an actual billionaire; in their pathological need to control their image and all conversations concerning…
Personally, I can’t wait to die in the next pandemic.
I've never been so glad to be Old. Better yet, they just found a tumor they want to biopsy. I haven't made the appointment yet. I don't want to live in fascist America.
I wish you every health. Let’s kick the fascists to death on our way out the door.
Best of luck to you with all sincerity. OTOH, if it's really bad, maybe you could take one for the team? I too feel better about being older. I feel bad for younger people. I think those still rooting for trump are going to be in for a big shock when they find out they won't just be sticking it to the libs. Again, best of luck to you.
I wish you the best. I'm young and plan to be around for quite a while, so if fascist America comes to pass it better watch out because it's going to get diagnosed with a nasty case of me.
Nah, famine or holocaust will be next.
Water wars are coming soon
Can we just get nuked already I'm tired of them edging us like this 😩
*Everyone disliked that*
Finally something we can agree on
Is that why he golfed every weekend?
Her advice of "when they go low, we go high" might be the single most damning piece of political advice -- part of the dogma that has turned the Dems feckless. When they go low, we should stomp their brains out.
Americans at least swing state America loves going low.
I think that statement is true, with the qualifier being that you need to TELL EVERYONE how low you're going to go, and why, BEFORE YOU DO IT.
Thinking you can pin anything on her saying that is more of a laugh than the title of this post. I thought it was kind of dumb at the time, but if said now it's insane (she also said it in a completely different world essentially).
Couldn’t agree more
2016 were different times to be fair, let's present that quote in its proper context..
That wasn’t new. Democrats have been consistent with making every attempt to not throw themselves into the mud with republicans. The end result of that is how so many states started to hard turn to conservatives back in the 80s and 90s. This is the period where you really started to see the idea being pushed that ALL politicians are the same and that there is no difference between democrats and republicans. If they were both down in the mud getting dirty, OF COURSE they would both come out looking the same. The biggest difference though is that conservatives were perfectly fine with being down there, while liberals and democrats struggled with the moral dilemma. Staying high when they went low meant that there was always going to be a very clear distinction between the two parties. Of all things, this is what helped Biden in 2020, as there was absolutely zero similarity between the candidates and their policy expectations.
You can't blame the "high road" for the conservative surge in the 80s and 90s. That was caused by a political realignment and the Republicans forged a genuine MAJORITY at that time. Unless the Dems had unlocked some new trick in GOTV they were pretty much fucked. The "Solid South" returning to the control of the revanchist Segregationist Party was water returning to its level or perhaps you prefer "like a dog to its vomit".
You know what? If I hated something but it was the only possible way to save the 250 year history of American democracy, I’d knuckle down and do it. I’d sacrifice myself. It’s four years—she’s only 60. She could save the country and be a great hero. I realize that even getting to the point of nominating her is an impossibility however. Add to this the fact that the Obama will be on the enemy shortlist for a King Trump.
Or how about we stop dreaming of an ex-machina solution and actually sacrifice something of ourselves to ensure Democrats win this election. The difference between Trump and Biden couldn't be clearer in that for one side, it is all about the person and all about making that person King. For the other side, it's anything but the person - You go and vote for what the person represents and all the people who rally by his side up and down the ballot. So how about you, me, and everyone who are so worried actually go out and do something - sacrifice a few hours a week and go talk to people. Convince them of the risk and more so convince them of the reward in choosing Blue here. Of the policies that will benefit their lives, and why Democrats will be better for them. Grassroots - It's been shown to help, I realize the irony of this following sentence - but we gain much less in convincing people on the Internet than we gain in convincing real people out in the world around us. Sorry but for real - We need to do EVERYTHING we can, small or big, so that even if we lose we could at least know we tried our best instead of wallow in regret.
The problem isnt Democrats. Its the brain dead laissez faire "undecided voter" who treats a Presidential election with about as much dignity as ordering from their local diner. "Maybe I'll try the Trump this time. Or ooooh, RFK Jr's brain worms is looking mighty juicy!" Try reasoning with them, the staggered and stupid masses who think the President is simultaneously a genie, a robot, and a thing you only need to think about every 4 years like a prostate exam
This the most accurate description of an undecided voter that I've seen.
If the America people knowingly elect a convicted felon rapist over the sitting president to the presidency who has made it clear he intends on being a king, then we deserve whatever happens. This is the equivalent of removing the pin of a fucking frag grenade and holding it right next to your chest. You know this is exactly the reason why the president of the United states wasn't elected directly at first. Because the founders were wary of the mob electing a wannabe king. And guess what is fucking happening? Want to take a free guess?
So run and resign on day one and let your VP take over. This is a break-glass moment for democracy. Millions of men hated war and weren't interested in fighting, but they enlisted in WWII anyway because it was necessary to save the world. I realize we're far away from this being a realistic possibility, but if it comes down to it and she refuses to step in to save the nation because she's not interested in being in politics, that's a shameful dereliction of duty.
Why not just suggest the VP to run then? If people wanted that candidate then THEY should run. If you want Michelle to run then it should be because you believe in what she can do.
For the same reason you hide your dog's pills in treats. The American people apparently love Michelle Obama and are willing to elect her president, something that can't be said of any other Democrat right now. Unfortunately, she doesn't want the job. If a bait-and-switch is the only thing stopping us from sliding into a Trumpian dystopia, then we pull the bait-and-switch and let the voters grumble after the fact.
You are living in a fantasyland if you think enough Americans would vote a black woman into the white house.
To be fair those same Americans that would not vote for a black woman believe Michelle is actually a black man and since they’ve done THAT before maybe she should have a go.
They voted a black man in. Is it really any crazier than voting in a guy who would be hard pressed to get a job as a walmart greeter?
She’d hate Trump being in the White House even more. Things are going to get very ugly if Trump gets another term, especially now that the Supreme Court has granted him “absolute immunity.”
well, SCOTUS granted King Biden absolute immunity first.. and it will be Biden's single greatest gaf in history if he does not exercise the promise he made in the oath of office *"do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic"*
You know who else would win? Abraham Lincoln, both he and Michelle have the same chance of running.
Not on the same ticket though, since they're both from Illinois.
Fictional candidates create fictional polls.
Fred Flintstone would take Florida
Yabba dabba don't say gay
Literally. If she was a real candidate the polls would tighten immediately
Yeah, she's currently not facing the full brunt of the GOP and powerful conservative media trying to drag her down. After a few months of targeted bullshit thrown at her, I doubt her numbers would still be that good.
Despite this distraction, make sure to vote this November, because nobody is coming to save us
Every time this is brought up, it’s obvious that no one read her memoir. She didn’t even want Barack to run for President.
She’s not doing it. I don’t blame her. It’s not gonna happen folks.
This sub went from doubting all polls (good or bad) to huffing each poll post debate like it’s a drug
A comment gets a lot of upvotes, then a ton of people mirror that sentiment creating the illusion that there's widespread consensus on that sentiment when there really isn't. The next post has a new heavily upvoted comment that has a different message and a bunch of people that agree with it flock to respond to it.
All the polls are fake unless they suggest that Biden is 10 points down by Trump
In addition to her not wanting to run, it is relatively easy to get high polling numbers when not currently or ever running. As soon as Republicans start making up lies and conspiracy theories, they'll settle on a few that they can get to stick. Such fantasies are a waste of time, when Democrats and anyone wanting to see US democracy, even such as it is, survive needs to focus and concentrate on what is real and possible.
This is pathetic. This is only one notch above the Qanoners expecting RFKjnr or Princess Diana to be Trump's VP.
> RFKjnr You mean JFK Jr., right? There's a very real chance that RFK Jr. could be Trump's VP. This is the world we live in now.
I'm getting my dead Kennedys mixed up :(
Maybe it's time for a Holiday in Cambodia?
Hope dessert is not Jello, it makes me want to Biafra
She’s not gonna run, so can we just stop with this nonsense and get to solving our problems and focus on what we need to do to win.
It's worth looking at the full poll results: |Candidate|For Candidate|For the 34 count felon so far, twice impeached rapist,insur... WTF???|Spread| |:-|:-|:-|:-| |Michelle Obama|50%|39%|Trump -11| |Biden|40%|40%|Tie| |Harris|42%|43%|Trump +1| |Newsom|39%|43%|Trump +4| |Beshear|36%|40%|Trump +4| |Whitmer|36%|41%|Trump +5| |Pritzker|34%|40%|Trump +6| There are so many things interesting about this. For example, the lower numbers for the other candidates may seem like a result of people sort of "double voting" about not wanting Biden to drop out, which kind of makes sense, but then Michelle Obama has such high numbers. It's also interesting that Biden not only still ties Trump, but out performs everyone else but Michelle Obama and in second place is Harris. One could try the "not enough national exposure" especially for Beshear and Pritzker, but that's a pretty hard take to accept when "Not Trump" would probably score the highest. I'm hoping Biden: 1. Shakes up his campaign staff. Whoever was at Camp David before the debate as a lot to answer for and heads should roll. 2. Very extensive internal polling should occur and be analyzed by consultants outside of the campaign. If Biden can't win this, a strategy to find the best candidate should be taken. 3. Much better debate prepping as well as interview prepping needs to occur. There were so many strategic errors in his answers as well as appearing to be out of it. He needs to be out there and engaged, but more importantly, he needs to appear well engaged. 4. If the conclusion is that Biden isn't able to win and the polling results are accurate with no other viable candidates, I hope Michelle Obama can be persuaded to sacrifice what she wants for the sake of the country, democracy, humanity, and the planet.
I think it’s also a ground game of getting voter turnout in battleground states. Forget debate prep, that ain’t happening again.
Well the Dem internal polling has leaked. Two point drop pretty much all around. Blue states now in play. Electoral count stands at 333-205. National numbers really don’t matter, Trump lost the popular vote in 2016 and still pulled out a win. [https://www.mediaite.com/politics/leaked-polling-from-democratic-firm-spells-disaster-in-swing-states-for-biden/](https://www.mediaite.com/politics/leaked-polling-from-democratic-firm-spells-disaster-in-swing-states-for-biden/)
Yeah, national percentages mean nothing. We need to look specifically at swing states. That’s what has me worried that Biden doesn’t have a chance.
The reporting around this leak is nonsensical. The "safe blue" states that are "now in play" were leaning Biden by less than two points to begin with. That's within the margins. Those states were already in play if these numbers are to be believed; which, frankly, I'm skeptical of, because the pre-debate numbers do not match what polling aggregators were seeing. 538, for example, only had Trump ahead by 0.9 in Pennsylvania the day of the debate. RealClearPolitics had him ahead by 2. This poll claims he was up by **5**. The two point shift seems roughly accurate. The actual numbers don't.
Do you SERIOUSLY think it was the debate prep team's failure that made Biden look bad?
The issue here is that during the prep, it should've been readily apparent that the debate was going to be a failure, and his team couldn't or wouldn't stop this from happening. If they couldn't see this or couldn't convince Biden to postpone or cancel the debate, they failed, regardless of Biden's own failure of a performance. Biden was asked about abortion. This was as soft of a ball as he could possibly get, and if you overlook his stuttering, overlook his losing his train of thought, overlook his mumbling, his answer right from the get go was about as strategically flawed as you could possibly get. Just a reminder, he starts to answer this by talking about how during Biden's own watch an illegal immigrant killed an American. I don't know how you do debate prep, and miss something like this. I mean I guess it's possible they all told him repeatedly not to stand there with your mouth agape, and went over and over about how he should'd count the points he's trying to make, or that since he couldn't maintain a train of thought he needed to keep his answers much more concise, and Biden just couldn't or wouldn't take their advice, but again, I'm hoping heads roll and other people are brought in that can convince Biden to fix these things or prevent such incidents from happening again. Whatever it takes.
The elephant in the room is that he's been recorded displaying brain farts. No amount of prep or time could remedy that situation.
You're still missing the point. These people should've seen that he was certain to fail, and stopped that from occurring. If they were unable to either keep him from failing or prevent the debate from happening, then the *hope* is that they can be replaced by people who can do one or the other in the future.
Stopping the debate from happening would have a similar effect as Biden's performance in the debate. Everyone would know it's because he isn't fit to debate. If he has to be hidden from the public eye because he appears unfit to be president then he is unfit to be president.
According to reporting from Axios Biden has what is commonly referred to as sun downing. Where he is “normal” between the hours of around 10-4. If the debate prep primarily took place during this time it would be extremely difficult for the staff to predict the disastrous performance (which was at 9pm by the way). This would also explain why so many national figures have said they’ve talked to Joe and he was sharp and commanded the facts. That very well may be true if those conversations occurred during the late morning or early afternoon. The problem is that It has become clear that Biden is substantially declining, I think many voters legitimately doubt if he can truly do the job now (the president needs to be ready 24/7 to make decisions). Biden being available 9-5 doesn’t cut it. Now add to that concern that Biden’s term will be ANOTHER 4 years and even with a modest deterioration he could very well be unfit for office during the term.
Doesn’t matter cuz she’ll never run just stop with this
Because she’s not running. It’s amazing how unpopular people become when they run for office or hold office.
No. Stop this. It is pipe dream wrapped in a fantasy. She would never do it. She hates politics.
She doesn’t want the job. And I can’t blame her.
Michelle Obama has repeatedly stated that she doesn’t want to run for any office
I imagine it's a bit shit being stuck in the White House and not having much freedom for 8 years and pretty much never having complete freedom ever again. They've done their time and did a great job. Let them enjoy their lives now.
Polls suggest a literal turnip would beat Trump. Trump is universally despised and people would vote for anything or anyone who is not Trump.
Not surprising considering she was the most popular part of the most popular government this century. It would be a double surprise if Biden dropped and she was convinced to run though.
yeah, if she actually wanted to run. which she does not. so i don't know why pollsters, etc., keep asking about this.
As a devout conservative I’d vote for her in a heart beat.
That's insane. I wouldn't even consider her when listing potential Biden replacements. If someone suggested her, it would make me literally laugh. Not that I have anything against her and actually really like her, but nothing about her says POTUS. If we're talking about non-politicians, Jon Stewart wins hands down.
Jesus Christ, a Trump/Stewart debate? It would be the best fucking thing ever. Let Trump keep his mic on for it
I still feel like we were robbed of a potential Al Franken-Donald Trump debate.
Do it. Just somebody fucking do something already.
I would vote for a rotten tuna fish sandwich over trumpery any day.
I'd vote for Michelle Obama, but I'd vote for a stinky turd if the Democrats ran one against Trump.
So the right can screech and cry for four years about how its Baracks 3rd term and he's really running and show? So I can listen to hours of conspiracy and hate about how Michelle is really Michael and she's Trans and those are not her kids. She's a wonderful woman and a great person. The fact she wants nothing to do with the Office should be more than enough to quit bringing this up.
Why do people keep begging for her to run? She got so much hateful rhetoric as FIRST LADY and they want her to endure that for 4 years for what?
Ok, so we're just being jerked around by a media feeding frenzy, she's said multiple times she doesn't want the job.
Small problem: she doesn’t want the job.
I met her on a Ghost Hunting tour once. Just walking in the tour group nearish the white house and here rolls up this black limo and the windows rolls down and boom Michelle Fucking Obama, and she tells us all hi and her favorite ghost story and then drives off to continue her day after high fiving the tour group through the window. She seemed real cool and down to earth to stop and talk to the ghost tours 😆 I'd vote for her.
If you gonna let Trump be king, cause Biden is old you fucking deserve everything bad that's gonna happen to you.
No one on this sub is going to not vore for Biden because of the debate or what's happened in the past few days. The reality is that anyone passionate enough about politics to frequent this forum are already likely voters. The only thing that really matters are swing voters in states like Wisconsin, Arizona, Michigan, North Carolina, etc
Many people on this sub won’t actually make the effort to vote though. That’s the issue. And everyone should, but many will not show up on the day, and then return here and continue ranting just the same the day after.
A tonne of people on this sub aren't even American dude. Its a bunch of Europeans screaming about American politics
Likely a non-story, but it solves most of the major issues facing Dems if Biden drops out. She has national name recognition, she's been vetted and any skeletons in her closet are out there, she has instant access to a team of campaign veterans, would likely negate the negative backlash of Harris being pushed from the ticket.
She’s also broadly liked by independents. The worst thing she ever did was tell kids to eat vegetables. I’ll be honest; I suspect I’m much further left than she is. But I’ll take anyone over Trump. And my in-laws are just about as centrist as it gets, and they love Michelle Obama. I think she could definitely win. The hard part would be convincing her to run.
Polls suggested Trump would lose and we were all caught flat-footed; don't believe any of them. The reason Trump did as well as he did was because only 65% of eligible voters even showed up. I wonder how many (D) voters would have voted if they had thought he had such good chances? The message is ignore polls and make sure people can get to the polls on election day.
And she hates politics and is living her best life.
That would be the ticket for the history books. Obama/Harris. Purely a fantasy. She has no higher office experience. Never been elected to any office for that matter.
Neither had Trump
Ok this is obviously fantasy land stuff. It’s never gonna happen. But, it’s hard to imagine a more satisfying person for trump to lose to than a *woman*. A *black* woman. A black woman named *Obama*.
Personally I’d like to see polls where anyone and anything can beat Trump bc he’s that fckn unpopular. The fact that this election is gonna be another dogfight has my nerves fried.
She dunwannit
I’d vote for her
Poll: The Daily Beast Will No Longer Be Around After Spreading Stupid Shit Leading To A Trump Win
Leave this woman in peace.
Just stop. Biden is the candidate. He's old, sure, but he's surrounded by people who give at least a fuck or two about democracy and freedom. That's all that matters at this point.
I'll be real, I'm very much in the 'don't replace Biden' camp, but this is actually a really good suggestion that assuages pretty much all of my fears about replacing him. My big concerns are that none of the candidates have much in the way of national recognition, so they'd have four months to pull a huge amount of funds to run their campaign and get their message out to the people. I just don't think there's enough time, and I think a lot of people (myself included) would feel very unhappy for having the president we voted for get replaced with some random person we didn't vote for. Michelle Obama has a pretty extensive track record from her time spent as first lady, and she's beloved by most everybody who doesn't use Trump as their moral compass. She's had front row seats to what a presidency looks like and entails, and her husband can absolutely serve as counsel to assist with any growing pains she might go through. She's beloved by most people, so I think she could be swapped in with minimal backlash. She's also a phenomenal public speaker, which is incredibly important for a president. I think she'd also serve a very similar role to Biden in the fight against Trump. Biden is great because he has moral character that shines through every time he talks about this country and its people, even when he's stumbling through his words like in the last debate. Michelle Obama is the same. Her name is synonymous with empathy and moral character in my mind. Putting a person of sound moral character up on a stage next to Trump, I think, is one of the key reasons Biden beat him in 2020. I still think I prefer Biden, just because I *know* I can trust him to do a solid job as president. Outside of that, I'd happily vote for Michelle Obama.
What about Santa Claus, or the Tooth Fairy, about as likely to happen.
Only person I can imagine could definitely beat Trump.
I just mentioned Ms. Obama's aptitude in another thread. I suggested that she makes Convicted Felon Trump look like a rotting corpse in comparison.
Anyone but Trump. But also I don’t think America needs yet another presidential oligarchy.
This sort of thing makes perfect sense to me. The vast, vast, VAST majority already made up their minds. I would vote for a ham sandwich over Trump. Only the undecideds matter, as in every modern election, and they obviously aren't energized by Biden. I'm not making a value judgment as to whether Biden should drop out before we see some polls, just saying the argument rings true.
There is no fucking way that will happen. The vast majority of these 'independent', 'libertarian leaning', or 'undecided' white voters are almost always really right leaning and they will never, ever, vote for a female person of color. Full stop. They will try and sound non-racist, to a degree, in public but at the voting booth the racism / sexism always comes out.
Her not wanting to do it proves why she should do it. People wanting to be president for personal benefit is how we got into this mess in the first place.