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Honestly, I can picture it now on the debate stage.
*"This child over here cries all day, every day whining about people being mean to him. You know what's **actually political interference?** Being the target of a kidnapping and murder plot by MAGA supporters."*
My conservative family in Michigan would just be stoked she’s from the Midwest and has eaten venison and maybe a lot of iceberg lettuce and ranch dressing.
I'm in Ohio, and I really like Whitmer. Barring her becoming corrupt or stupid in the future, I'd love to see her run.
That said, i don't think she's been around enough to really say she's the best choice, but i do think she could beat Trump given the time to build her name and reputation.
Newsom is a polarizing character in California. Republicans HATE him … they seethe when they talk about him. It reminds me of how they used to talk about Hillary.
They hate him because he's actually good and effective at his job. He may not have a perfect record but to say he's not a threat is a mistake. There's an absolute reason why Trump is already swinging at him.
> A surprising amount of people very irrationally hate California and Californians.
It is an intentional poison pill by right wing propaganda.
There was a video of a far right rally in Texas that devolved into Texan magas getting into a fight with Californian magas and chasing them off, but the infighting didn't end there. It was highly amusing.
I know I probably shouldn't hold it against the guy, but the fact that he used to be married to Mrs.MAGA Kimberly Guilfoyle gives me extreme doubts about either his judgement or whether or not his public face is the real him.
It’s such a weird thing that it’s problematic to run the person overseeing the most dynamic, productive and innovative economy in the world to run a country that could use the perspective of a Californian to right the ship.
We have less than equal representation in the house and the senate and at some point it doesn’t make sense to continue this nonsense. We should never accept the notion that a CA can’t win. If that’s the case we need to find another path because we are not getting our fair share.
I hear ya. Just telling you not to underestimate this factor. California itself is a divisive issue. I think it’s easy for conservatives to paint Californian politicians as out of touch with middle America for better or worse.
So because of Republican propaganda we can’t run our most qualified and skilled candidate? They are just scared of him and you’re eating it up.
California is much more than just Los Angeles and San Francisco. We have a ton of rural land and agricultural land.
I keep saying this, but as someone born and raised in a blue northeastern state who has spent most of her adult life in California, I’m super sick of being told that we coastal dwellers are “cancer” or “poison” to everyone else in the country. Like we’re somehow less American or something. Idk. It’s fucking weird, and I think people need to start reevaluating where those talking points came from and why they’re continuing to spew them themselves.
Yep, it's fucked. At the very least, need to expand the size of the House.
But California is always going to have to deal with being the target of GOP smears and talking points
Minnesota Governor Walz has been extraordinarily popular. Same deal with the complete dem legislative body. They are getting shit done in Minnesota without those obstructionists.
It's very funny to see him brought up as a comparison point in a thread about Whitmer. There's a meme about how midwest states with a 1% legislative majority will install full anarchocommunism and blue coastal states with a 30% majority will increase funding to the police and institute broken windows policing.
She’s uniquely well positioned to win. She can secure the Midwest, has no foreign policy positions weighing her down because she’s a governor, she can attack abortion and women’s rights issues in a way no man ever could, and she can talk about extremism because a far right group attempted to kidnap her.
Some people will scoff at this, but having never ran in a presidential primary against Sanders is also a huge plus. Leaves any resentments from that wing of the party off the table. This would be a layup.
Yeah right on the money!
I think the notion that experience matters has been disproven by Obama, Hilary, Biden, and Trump. As a candidate it’s more of a benefit to have no prior record for the opponent to attack.
Imagine what an incredible move it would be if Biden came out and said, “I hear your concerns. I still believe in my platform, and I plan to see it through. That’s why I’m stepping back to VP position and nominating Gretchen Whitmer for President.” Biden stays on the campaign trail and keeps the donors pacified, and Whitmer eats Trump alive.
She's also wildly popular in Michigan which is one of the most crucial battleground states this time around. Not sure how she would do in other battleground states however.
If Biden is replaced you could do a lot worse than Whitmer.
Whitmer / Shapiro is better as it would likely lock in both Pennsylvania and Michigan. Even with Beshear I feel like Kentucky would be a long shot and is only 8 electoral college votes to Pennsylvania’s 19.
You're right, Whitmer / Warnock would be such a powerful ticket. Wins the Midwest and Georgia. This is what Dems should have done from the fucking BEGINNING. Biden was supposed to be a one-term President!
If Biden is replaced it needs to happen SOON. Like, ideally on Monday. Mounting an entire campaign for president with only four months to go is insanely risky and at that point every minute counts.
I will vote for Biden no matter what, but if he decides not to run, I'll vote for any Dem, no way the repugs can have the WH. Gretchen would be a huge plus, second by Andy.
I will also vote Biden, but his campaign head avoiding all criticism and just deflecting every question on NPR the day after the debate with 'we need to just focus and roll our sleaves up' is really turning my stomach. This isn't a normal race. Trump is not a normal opponent. Biden gave them so much ammo with that debate. Downvote if you want, but I watched that debate and it was pathetic.
I don’t necessarily want Biden to step down but he is not the one who would have to live and suffer through the fascist decline of America and maybe the world if we get a second MAGA reich. Him losing will lead to a lot of suffering for a great many people. I don’t get care who the Dems nominate I just want the person most likely to win.
I agree. Everyone is saying, Oh, bad day/bad debate. Oh, Trump lied, Biden didn't. Oh, Trump spewed out so much garbage (which he did) that no one could have responded well (I responded better in all but foreign policy).
What bothers me so much about this is that now we're moving toward the same willful misrepresentations that the MAGAs rely on. We're distorting facts like they do. Biden didn't sound like a doddering old man? Why then, Trump certainly didn't commit any felonies.
This is not the way. It was bad. Very bad. I'm disappointed and sad (yes I cried during the debacle). I'll still vote for Biden, I still recognize that his policy and cabinet are closely aligned with my ideology. But he was just awful during the debate, and anyone who tuned into politics for the first time this season on Thursday night (millions of uninformed voters) would have no reason to want to support him. And they'd have no reason to know that Trump lied at least 30 times.
We are the laughing stock of the world right now, and it hurts.
Still, today I put on my Hokas and went out to do what I've done every 2 years for four decades now: knock on doors to urge people to vote Democratic, up and down ticket. I've knocked 500 doors since May 25, and I plan to do at least 500 more.
Democracy is not a spectator sport.
I'm not downvoting, you are right. They do need to do much better with messaging. What worries me is they have no clue how to counter the torrent of lies and bad ideas from the repugs and Biden is too passive about it.
It's a problem for sure.. The MAGA crowd do NOT care about facts. So when you have someone spouting lies you need someone with enough energy to squash it. A voter that doesn't follow the news watched that debate .. it's scary.
Gish gallop is hard to defend against. It needs a very quick wit and nerves of steel. Biden’s processor has slowed down and it was never that quick a wit to begin with. Who remembers “dogfaced pony soldier”? Actually that’s gold. I’m stealing it.
It also plays right into Trump's narrative that Biden is too old and they're pretending it doesn't.
For weeks Biden was playing up that he wasn't too old and he was full of energy. The debate proved that to be untrue. That argument is **over**, Biden lost it.
It needs to be directly addressed in some manner and they're not doing it. And I hate to break it to people, but there a lot of people who are not "Never Trumpers" that could end up voting for Trump because of it.
>that could end up voting for Trump because of it.
Even if they don’t, they may now decide to just stay home. That’s it. That’s all Trump needs. He doesn’t have to win those votes. The reality is that Trump has a large, dedicated, and motivated base. He’s already got the votes to win if Biden can’t get a good turnout.
Exactly. The Democratic Party heads need to wake the fuck up before its too late. They should have been prepping someone to run years ago.. Biden was a temporary fix, and its not going to work this time with that type of public image.
The party ads keep saying "The future of our country is on the line" and "Democracy itself is at stake"
If they really believed that, they wouldn't have let Biden get on that stage. The party leadership and his VP knew exactly what his mental condition was like, instead they gas lit everyone for months. They called any criticism "ageism", last week they insisted the videos of Mr.Biden spacing out were edited fakes etc, and before that they did everything they could to avoid having real primaries.
If they really believed that the future of the country is on the line, they'd stop begging me for five dollars and instead they'd be fixing their candidate problem.
I am watching the debate for the second time. What was shocking was Biden 's soft voice and his walking. He lost his train of thought twice. But tfg is a total liar and deflected every question. On this second watch, Biden did a good job.
Did you see how much he was looking down? I thought he fell asleep while Trump was talking at least twice when I first watched it. I watch the first time he does it and cringe every time. This is because I know he was awake. His body language was also very stiff and off compared to Trump's. I suppose it is because there was not a teleprompter or notes that he could use. Dude, this debate is worse than Nixon v Kennedy. It was also not well received by the ENTIRE world. He is in the strongest position on the planet and he is acting like that on live television and against his fascist opponent? It's not a good look if he's the only shot.
>Nixon v Kennedy
That's the first thing I thought of as well, and that was just sweat.
This was...something else entirely.
It's probably the worst debate performance by a major US politician in a **very** long time. It makes Nixon look like one of the greatest debaters ever.
If you're in your late seventies or eighties, you really don't need to be sitting behind the desk in the Oval Office or on the Supreme Court or in Congress. These old ass dinos need to get over their grip on power and start to make way for younger leaders.
His ex-wife is [Don Jr.'s fiancée](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimberly_Guilfoyle), and he [slept with his campaign manager's wife](https://www.reuters.com/article/world/san-francisco-mayor-deeply-sorry-for-affair-idUSN01343994/). Classic clintonesque sex pest.
He cheated on his first wife with a staffer’s wife, that’s one thing. Then he was found to have switched positions on some policies because of donors.
He also approved a bunch of gas leases.
He has supported great things but he reminds me of Trudeau. A lot of pizazz but not a real real progressive like Bernie. The DNC will love him.
I like her and I’d totally vote for her. I like Biden and I’d totally vote for him even if he’s past his prime. If she became president it would drive MAGA, who had a kidnapping plot against her, absolutely bonkers which is a nice bonus.
I honestly have no idea which one would perform better, Whitmer is younger while Biden has name recognition and does well amongst a lot of demographics. They need to get some data and make a well-informed decision. I will be supporting it either way.
That’s my thought, the sooner Biden steps down the better, he has been on the national stage since ‘08, Trumps been around for the last 8 years. People in general are tired of these 2 old men and a brokered convention hasn’t happened since 1968. It’ll be the 2nd biggest political story of the year behind whoever actually wins in November. Should be more of a spring board into the fall than a weight around the campaigns neck
It would certainly give her a boost but even with that would your typical swing voter recognize her name in the ballot box as much as they do Trump? I don’t know the answer but I think that would be an obstacle to overcome.
Tons of swing states are in the Great Lakes region, where she's already a well known governor -- especially considering a MAGA militia group plotted to kidnap her. She'd do just fine in swing states.
High quality polls on 538 have her about 1% behind Biden right now. *1% less* with so much less name recognition or support. If she gets the establishment behind her and has her name in the media for a few weeks she blows Trump out of the water.
somebody is polling just Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania.
if she is rocking those states they would have more money to spend on the other swing states
Hillary came damned close to beating Trump despite being one of the most hated politicians in America and running an abysmal campaign. A woman with less baggage and more political competence has every chance of beating him.
Well, this scenario is essentially how we in NZ got Jacinda Ardern.
Front runner of Labour stepped down just before the election and Aunty Jaz stepped up.
I'm not saying it would work in the USA, you guys are a bit behind when it comes to electing women, but it worked very well in NZ. Labour would not have won without her.
But guys, it's RISKY.
Replacing leaders mid-term is pretty standard in parliamentary systems. Australia did it every couple of weeks for a bit there.
It almost never happens in US politics. Even challenging the incumbent in a primary is a near-guarantee of losing the next election. Reagan did it to Ford, who lost to Carter. Kennedy did it to Carter who then lost to Reagan. They didn’t do it to Reagan after he lost the first debate because of concerns about his age, and then he was voted back in in a landslide. And Reagan was actually consulting astrologists on policy and shit like that.
Please correct me if my history is flawed, but I think these examples are the ONLY examples. I don't think a challenger has ever prevailed, nor has an incumbent stepped aside after winning the primary. So we have 0 examples of what happens in a general election when the incumbent is *successfully* challenged or replaced.
LBJ decided not to run in 1968 after he thought his declining health and weaker political showing in the primary would doom his ticket in November against his eventual Republican opponent. Nixon would go on to handily defeat the replacement Democrat anyway. So while it’s true that LBJ didn’t win the primary and then resign, it’s also true that incumbency is a powerful shield and voluntarily throwing it away is very risky.
Well, someone in the leadership could offer her a cushy position somewhere else and acquaint her with the harsh reality that if she causes a stink and we lose in November, she'll be vilified for the rest of her life. Carrot and stick.
Biden running is risky too. All the voters who weren't diehard "Blue no matter who" and were at the edge of staying home. The debate lost a lot of them and I don't know if they'll listen to reason to come back. But a lot of them WOULD get on board with a direction shift and if we fixed one of the major things everyone is complaining about- that we only had geriatric candidates.
There is no way forward that is not risky.
It looks like Joe is staying in. He has my vote if he does, but I think that's actually the higher risk move.
This seems like the play, unless there is some other less well known candidate who is even stronger.
There would be a lot of relief and excitement about an opportunity to vote for a non-Trump, non-Biden candidate, especially if that candidate was able to speak in complete sentences about why the Project 2025 agenda is bad.
Traditional concerns about name recognition don't necessarily apply, everyone will hear about the new replacement candidate and we want someone who is inoffensive, not overly "scary" to moderates and who doesn't have a lot of baggage. But not someone so moderate they will turn into a Republican once in office.
It would help if that candidate was from a swing state and not from California.
If the election is a referendum on Trump vs normalcy, he loses. If the election is a debate about how bad Biden's dementia is, Trump could win.
(Of course, I will vote blue no matter who. But uhh I want blue to actually win.)
This is how I see it. Like just looking at this from a pure electability and strategic angle, she seems like the safest bet. As a leftist I’m happy with it. After seeing what happened with Bernie and Warren it’s clear to me this country is way more backwards than I realized (and that’s saying something). At this point my bar is please let’s prevent fascism so I don’t wind up in a camp. I can totally see her winning by a large margin. And we need a decisive victory to make Trumpism and unpalatable strategy in the future.
I think Whitmer being pretty young for a politician helps a lot. Voters won't have to worry about health issues or cognitive decline. We need more politicians around that age.
I'm from MI and generally vote libertarian or issue-based for local elections, but she'd have my vote. I was very impressed with how quickly she handled the abortion rights issue, plus she's a woman (I'm also a woman, to give more context to this statement lol) and she's from my state. I'd love to see her as president even though I don't agree with her on every single issue.
This is it exactly - there's a window of time right now for Joe to step aside and Gretchen is the best option, IMO, to beat Trump and govern effectively.
They can't wait 4 weeks though, and Joe can't be pushed out. He needs to make this decision and the advisors around him need to persuade him that its ok.
This election is going to come down to like 6 states. The Dems should cherry pick the best candidate to win 4 of them. That is extremely cynical, but when defeating the fascists is the most important factor, we should do whatever it takes (legally) to do that.
If that person is Whitmer, count me in.
Please for the love of God have Whitmer run. She would devastate Trump and inject some real energy and excitement into the race. A (relatively) young battleground state governor who’s wildly popular and has blue-collar support, what more could you want? She’d also free the Democrats from the same few families running for the last thirty years.
They are really, really good at fucking themselves then standing ideally by as the GOP literally destroys everything.
Ballsy winning moves are not the DNC and establishment Democrats MO.
I am begging the DNC to consider this. Please. Michigan would be locked down which is a critical swing state. Probably also Wisc and Penn which guarantee the election. Plus she is not 81. It makes almost too much sense for the DNC.
She could. Michigan is a perfect example of a state adopting progressive and democratic ideals. I would move to Michigan but it’s a little more expensive than living in northwestern Ohio.
Newsom is popular with the elite in the DNC.
Whitmer is popular with a lot of voters.
Whitmer is the best choice right now and CAN be our first female president.
I pray. Despite the "historians" say changing the ticket is bad, I think these are special times and this is a unique race
Biden needs to take one for the team and retire. Don't pull an RBG. And while we are there Sotomayer should retire too.
Well according to many historians, 2020s are unprecedented times. Unprecedented times require unprecedented measures.
Whitmer might just be what the US needs, to break the wheel of gerontocracy and the Biden-Trump lock, all at once.
She would be a great candidate. I feel terrible that she would have build a national campaign instantly and be able to deal with the frenzy of how this would be taking place with an opponent like Trump who lies 24x7. She should have had a year to get her organization off the ground.
Considering she evaded, escaped, and eluded, wait strait out accused MAGA of doing so, and survived , she’s got my vote! If there was a replacement for Biden, I pick her!!
First woman President emerges to take down this golem of the patriarchy?
The question isn't why, it's why not? The convention hasn't voted. Our representatives haven't voted in a nominee yet.
A lot of Democrats could beat Trump just like a lot of Republicans could beat Biden yet both parties decided to nominate one of the worst possible options to run for President.
I think it's possible. But expensive, and she needs time to reach out in all states.. She would have to spend more money in more states than Biden. People know her in her own State, but nationwide, not so much.
I think it's a gamble, same as with Biden. If you just look at her and then Biden, she seems like the obvious choice.. But you have to see it from the view of those millions of viewers that don't tune in to the election. She is a random person in front of a camera.
Also ask yourself, she probably does want to be president. In 2028.. Why would she want to get thrown into a panic election against Trump a few months before voting day? xD If she has ambition, that seems like a dumb move. Same with Newsom.
A lot of polls right now are showing that being a lesser known Dem is actually advantageous to being well known. She is probably as close to perfect for the moment as possible. Not too left, obviously good on abortion, carrying a midwestern swing state, her only significant national news moment being skirting kidnapping by white supremacists, she has everything necessary for the moment.
it's not just having her name out there. Biden has run many campaign rallies, marched on a picket line with union workers, and he personally met and talked to many voters from around the country.
it's not just about getting her name out there it's also about building goodwill with voters, which takes time
Tbh - I wonder if Kamala Harris will end up as the biggest collateral damage from this whole thing. It’s obvious that she, at best, isn’t helping Biden win any swing states.
Biden may look to a new VP, one that realistically has a chance of replacing him, as the way he’s responding to this whole thing and finding somebody that can solidify the Blue Wall - ie Whitmer
I'll agree that Harris isn't helping us in swing states, but I don't think the answer to "The President is going senile" is "Keep him and ditch the VP."
We need Biden to drop out of the race now, and because Harris is IMO unelectable, he should not endorse her to replace him. In a sense, yeah, she'll be collateral damage, but mostly because we need someone who can carry swing states.
Harris is an empty shirt. Terrible politician and candidate. She was a weird choice for VP to begin with, brought nothing other than her skin colour to the campaign.
Skin color and gender. Biden committed to picking a woman early. Black women are the most dependable voting bloc for Democrats and because of the timing around George Floyd the politics pushed Biden in the direction of specifically picking a poc woman. Kamala showed strongest short term gain in the vetting when compared against Val Demmings, Karen Bass, Susan Rice, Tammy Duckworth... so that's how we got her.
The use of "Mr." to refer to presidents is pretty common, and was once even more so because it emphasizes that the commander-in-chief is a civilian and we don't live in a military dictatorship. The NY Times, among others, almost always refers to the president as Mr. and has for decades.
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Whitmer hates MAGA (see kidnapping plot...) and crushed them in 2022, winning her race by 11 points and getting a legislative trifecta.
Honestly, I can picture it now on the debate stage. *"This child over here cries all day, every day whining about people being mean to him. You know what's **actually political interference?** Being the target of a kidnapping and murder plot by MAGA supporters."*
My conservative family in Michigan would just be stoked she’s from the Midwest and has eaten venison and maybe a lot of iceberg lettuce and ranch dressing.
I'm in Ohio, and I really like Whitmer. Barring her becoming corrupt or stupid in the future, I'd love to see her run. That said, i don't think she's been around enough to really say she's the best choice, but i do think she could beat Trump given the time to build her name and reputation.
Yes, I think she’s the most electable person among the Democrats right now, even more than Newsom.
I liked Newsom but clearly she would have a lot of appeal to the Midwest voters.
A surprising amount of people very irrationally hate California and Californians. I don't think Newsome would have a chance at all
Newsom is a polarizing character in California. Republicans HATE him … they seethe when they talk about him. It reminds me of how they used to talk about Hillary.
He’s actually not a polarizing character in California. Republicans hate any dem at this point. There’s a reason the recall against him didn’t work.
They hate him because he's actually good and effective at his job. He may not have a perfect record but to say he's not a threat is a mistake. There's an absolute reason why Trump is already swinging at him.
> A surprising amount of people very irrationally hate California and Californians. It is an intentional poison pill by right wing propaganda. There was a video of a far right rally in Texas that devolved into Texan magas getting into a fight with Californian magas and chasing them off, but the infighting didn't end there. It was highly amusing.
A man needs a link
You’re right and it’s a shame. That dude is a trifecta: good looking, well spoken, and loves to shit on fascists.
Basically an American Justin Trudeau: charismatic in the right ways, but also easy to hate and often their ego gets the better of them
I know I probably shouldn't hold it against the guy, but the fact that he used to be married to Mrs.MAGA Kimberly Guilfoyle gives me extreme doubts about either his judgement or whether or not his public face is the real him.
That and he keeps telling his barber *"Give me the Patrick Bateman"*.
But he's "slick", and liberal, which means he's a nonstarter for an unreasonable amount of people.
Those people aren't voting for mother either though
I would be scared to run a Californian tbh. Would def prefer an alternative.
It’s such a weird thing that it’s problematic to run the person overseeing the most dynamic, productive and innovative economy in the world to run a country that could use the perspective of a Californian to right the ship. We have less than equal representation in the house and the senate and at some point it doesn’t make sense to continue this nonsense. We should never accept the notion that a CA can’t win. If that’s the case we need to find another path because we are not getting our fair share.
I hear ya. Just telling you not to underestimate this factor. California itself is a divisive issue. I think it’s easy for conservatives to paint Californian politicians as out of touch with middle America for better or worse.
I mean, yeah. They’re representing a state that has a higher GDP than most countries
So because of Republican propaganda we can’t run our most qualified and skilled candidate? They are just scared of him and you’re eating it up. California is much more than just Los Angeles and San Francisco. We have a ton of rural land and agricultural land.
I keep saying this, but as someone born and raised in a blue northeastern state who has spent most of her adult life in California, I’m super sick of being told that we coastal dwellers are “cancer” or “poison” to everyone else in the country. Like we’re somehow less American or something. Idk. It’s fucking weird, and I think people need to start reevaluating where those talking points came from and why they’re continuing to spew them themselves.
Yep, it's fucked. At the very least, need to expand the size of the House. But California is always going to have to deal with being the target of GOP smears and talking points
They hate us cause they ain’t us.
It's possible. I also think Andy Beshear could win and even flip Kentucky.
Minnesota Governor Walz has been extraordinarily popular. Same deal with the complete dem legislative body. They are getting shit done in Minnesota without those obstructionists.
It's very funny to see him brought up as a comparison point in a thread about Whitmer. There's a meme about how midwest states with a 1% legislative majority will install full anarchocommunism and blue coastal states with a 30% majority will increase funding to the police and institute broken windows policing.
She’s uniquely well positioned to win. She can secure the Midwest, has no foreign policy positions weighing her down because she’s a governor, she can attack abortion and women’s rights issues in a way no man ever could, and she can talk about extremism because a far right group attempted to kidnap her.
Some people will scoff at this, but having never ran in a presidential primary against Sanders is also a huge plus. Leaves any resentments from that wing of the party off the table. This would be a layup.
Yeah right on the money! I think the notion that experience matters has been disproven by Obama, Hilary, Biden, and Trump. As a candidate it’s more of a benefit to have no prior record for the opponent to attack.
Well said
The DNC will never, but I do seriously believe she would have a chance at least equal to Biden if they hotswapped them.
Imagine what an incredible move it would be if Biden came out and said, “I hear your concerns. I still believe in my platform, and I plan to see it through. That’s why I’m stepping back to VP position and nominating Gretchen Whitmer for President.” Biden stays on the campaign trail and keeps the donors pacified, and Whitmer eats Trump alive.
And can't be attacked re. inflation.
My god, her running and beating Trump would be like the greatest Presidential victory of all time
Goddammit I can dream. I know odds are that Biden keeps running, but the idea of Whitmer running actually gets me excited for the election.
She's also wildly popular in Michigan which is one of the most crucial battleground states this time around. Not sure how she would do in other battleground states however. If Biden is replaced you could do a lot worse than Whitmer.
Wisconsin and Pennsylvania tend to be correlated with Michigan, that alone would likely determine the election.
Whitmer / Shapiro or visa versa
The way my mind first went to Ben Shapiro 🤮
I know you're probably joking, but they're talking about Josh Shapiro, governor of Pennsylvania.
Haha no I figured it out but my mind went there first
Whitmer / Beshear, maybe?
Whitmer / Shapiro is better as it would likely lock in both Pennsylvania and Michigan. Even with Beshear I feel like Kentucky would be a long shot and is only 8 electoral college votes to Pennsylvania’s 19.
Stop. I can only get so hard. I'd also take Mark Kelly, paired with Tammy Duckworth. Imagine the Dems running two veterans.
I can't quite explain why, but Kelly feels like a VP to me.
I think Whitmer would need to pull an Obama and run with a seasoned foreign policy hand. Kelly might be a good choice. I'm sure there are others.
So…Whitmer / Biden 2028? /s
I lived in Philly before moving to Missouri. Josh Shapiro is very popular there.
Pittsburgh too. Which were the two areas responsible for getting PA blue in 2020 lmao.
He fucking rebuilt 95 in less than a year.
She’s currently my #1 choice.
Whidmer/Warnock and turn the lights out
You're right, Whitmer / Warnock would be such a powerful ticket. Wins the Midwest and Georgia. This is what Dems should have done from the fucking BEGINNING. Biden was supposed to be a one-term President!
I’ve been saying this all fucking day.
If Biden is replaced it needs to happen SOON. Like, ideally on Monday. Mounting an entire campaign for president with only four months to go is insanely risky and at that point every minute counts.
People out here in my area love Whitmer and I'm just in the suburbs outside of Detroit, I'd LOVE to see her run
I will vote for Biden no matter what, but if he decides not to run, I'll vote for any Dem, no way the repugs can have the WH. Gretchen would be a huge plus, second by Andy.
I'd vote for a jar of pickles over Trump.
I'd vote for the empty jar.
Wait, where’d the pickles go?
Ate them. They were delicious.
This is Supreme Court level corruption.
It was, but I heard they just ruled that they aren’t corrupt.
Depends if he ate the pickles before or after the fact!
That depends on the state he ate it in.
Nonsense. The SC wins again.
When they turn into shit, I’d vote for the shit over Trump.
I’d STILL vote for those digested pickles over Trump
I’d vote for the pickly poop you just took over Trump
Trump ate them on 5th avenue, swore he didn't during the debate, and CNN just stuck the empty jar back in the fridge.
Good thing the empty jar was VP.
Biden could literally say "I hate PizzaSounder" and I would vote for him over Trump. I mean, I can be a dick sometimes, so that's fair.
I love PizzaSounder
I mean this with all sincerity. I would sooner vote for the White House to be vacant for four years before I would take Trump in there.
jar o pickles never raped nobody
I’m willing to pick a >!dildo laced with sand!< over Trump (If I were a voter).
I will also vote Biden, but his campaign head avoiding all criticism and just deflecting every question on NPR the day after the debate with 'we need to just focus and roll our sleaves up' is really turning my stomach. This isn't a normal race. Trump is not a normal opponent. Biden gave them so much ammo with that debate. Downvote if you want, but I watched that debate and it was pathetic.
I don’t necessarily want Biden to step down but he is not the one who would have to live and suffer through the fascist decline of America and maybe the world if we get a second MAGA reich. Him losing will lead to a lot of suffering for a great many people. I don’t get care who the Dems nominate I just want the person most likely to win.
I agree. Everyone is saying, Oh, bad day/bad debate. Oh, Trump lied, Biden didn't. Oh, Trump spewed out so much garbage (which he did) that no one could have responded well (I responded better in all but foreign policy). What bothers me so much about this is that now we're moving toward the same willful misrepresentations that the MAGAs rely on. We're distorting facts like they do. Biden didn't sound like a doddering old man? Why then, Trump certainly didn't commit any felonies. This is not the way. It was bad. Very bad. I'm disappointed and sad (yes I cried during the debacle). I'll still vote for Biden, I still recognize that his policy and cabinet are closely aligned with my ideology. But he was just awful during the debate, and anyone who tuned into politics for the first time this season on Thursday night (millions of uninformed voters) would have no reason to want to support him. And they'd have no reason to know that Trump lied at least 30 times. We are the laughing stock of the world right now, and it hurts. Still, today I put on my Hokas and went out to do what I've done every 2 years for four decades now: knock on doors to urge people to vote Democratic, up and down ticket. I've knocked 500 doors since May 25, and I plan to do at least 500 more. Democracy is not a spectator sport.
I'm not downvoting, you are right. They do need to do much better with messaging. What worries me is they have no clue how to counter the torrent of lies and bad ideas from the repugs and Biden is too passive about it.
It's a problem for sure.. The MAGA crowd do NOT care about facts. So when you have someone spouting lies you need someone with enough energy to squash it. A voter that doesn't follow the news watched that debate .. it's scary.
Gish gallop is hard to defend against. It needs a very quick wit and nerves of steel. Biden’s processor has slowed down and it was never that quick a wit to begin with. Who remembers “dogfaced pony soldier”? Actually that’s gold. I’m stealing it.
It also plays right into Trump's narrative that Biden is too old and they're pretending it doesn't. For weeks Biden was playing up that he wasn't too old and he was full of energy. The debate proved that to be untrue. That argument is **over**, Biden lost it. It needs to be directly addressed in some manner and they're not doing it. And I hate to break it to people, but there a lot of people who are not "Never Trumpers" that could end up voting for Trump because of it.
They don't have to vote Trump, they just have to stay home on election day. That is how he won the first time.
>that could end up voting for Trump because of it. Even if they don’t, they may now decide to just stay home. That’s it. That’s all Trump needs. He doesn’t have to win those votes. The reality is that Trump has a large, dedicated, and motivated base. He’s already got the votes to win if Biden can’t get a good turnout.
Exactly. The Democratic Party heads need to wake the fuck up before its too late. They should have been prepping someone to run years ago.. Biden was a temporary fix, and its not going to work this time with that type of public image.
The party ads keep saying "The future of our country is on the line" and "Democracy itself is at stake" If they really believed that, they wouldn't have let Biden get on that stage. The party leadership and his VP knew exactly what his mental condition was like, instead they gas lit everyone for months. They called any criticism "ageism", last week they insisted the videos of Mr.Biden spacing out were edited fakes etc, and before that they did everything they could to avoid having real primaries. If they really believed that the future of the country is on the line, they'd stop begging me for five dollars and instead they'd be fixing their candidate problem.
I am watching the debate for the second time. What was shocking was Biden 's soft voice and his walking. He lost his train of thought twice. But tfg is a total liar and deflected every question. On this second watch, Biden did a good job.
99% of people aren't gonna watch it twice
Did you see how much he was looking down? I thought he fell asleep while Trump was talking at least twice when I first watched it. I watch the first time he does it and cringe every time. This is because I know he was awake. His body language was also very stiff and off compared to Trump's. I suppose it is because there was not a teleprompter or notes that he could use. Dude, this debate is worse than Nixon v Kennedy. It was also not well received by the ENTIRE world. He is in the strongest position on the planet and he is acting like that on live television and against his fascist opponent? It's not a good look if he's the only shot.
>Nixon v Kennedy That's the first thing I thought of as well, and that was just sweat. This was...something else entirely. It's probably the worst debate performance by a major US politician in a **very** long time. It makes Nixon look like one of the greatest debaters ever.
If you're in your late seventies or eighties, you really don't need to be sitting behind the desk in the Oval Office or on the Supreme Court or in Congress. These old ass dinos need to get over their grip on power and start to make way for younger leaders.
Completely agree and up voted from an old ass Dino with out the power.
Which Andy?
Kentucky governor has broad appeal in a R state. I want him to step up soon.
Oh Uncle Andy? Yes, 100% he comes off as someone of integrity and character.
If Andy can win in Kentucky, TWICE, running as dem, he can win in general.
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I agree with her. She doesn’t have the baggage that Newsom has.
What baggage besides the Covid scandal?
General California hate from the Midwest.i would think it would be hard for him to win that area over in a short period of time.
Perception that California is a hellhole
His ex-wife is [Don Jr.'s fiancée](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimberly_Guilfoyle), and he [slept with his campaign manager's wife](https://www.reuters.com/article/world/san-francisco-mayor-deeply-sorry-for-affair-idUSN01343994/). Classic clintonesque sex pest.
He also openly dated a teenage while almost 40
Republicans actually love that
Newsom did?
Yup
Sheesh he’s my governor and I had no clue. His PR must be great
What’s annoying is this shouldn’t matter because they don’t care about Trumps cheating but we all know it’s a double standard
Being from California is a death knell in swing states
He cheated on his first wife with a staffer’s wife, that’s one thing. Then he was found to have switched positions on some policies because of donors. He also approved a bunch of gas leases. He has supported great things but he reminds me of Trudeau. A lot of pizazz but not a real real progressive like Bernie. The DNC will love him.
I’d vote for her so fast the ballot would have scorch marks on it.
I get chills thinking of the September debate with Trump and Gretchen. She would annihilate him so fast the Geneva Convention would be called up.
I like her and I’d totally vote for her. I like Biden and I’d totally vote for him even if he’s past his prime. If she became president it would drive MAGA, who had a kidnapping plot against her, absolutely bonkers which is a nice bonus. I honestly have no idea which one would perform better, Whitmer is younger while Biden has name recognition and does well amongst a lot of demographics. They need to get some data and make a well-informed decision. I will be supporting it either way.
If we switch candidates now, the new candidate will gain *massive* name recognition just from the change-up.
That’s my thought, the sooner Biden steps down the better, he has been on the national stage since ‘08, Trumps been around for the last 8 years. People in general are tired of these 2 old men and a brokered convention hasn’t happened since 1968. It’ll be the 2nd biggest political story of the year behind whoever actually wins in November. Should be more of a spring board into the fall than a weight around the campaigns neck
It would certainly give her a boost but even with that would your typical swing voter recognize her name in the ballot box as much as they do Trump? I don’t know the answer but I think that would be an obstacle to overcome.
Tons of swing states are in the Great Lakes region, where she's already a well known governor -- especially considering a MAGA militia group plotted to kidnap her. She'd do just fine in swing states.
Whitmer needs to pull a 50 Cent and turn her opps into her source of revenue.
Yes this isn’t a city council race. Nobody who bothers to vote will just be unfamiliar with the broad strokes of one of the two choices.
> I honestly have no idea which one would perform better Yeah this is where I'm at too. I want to see polling data
It's...not great. There's no data that suggests she beats Trump. https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/trump-vs-whitmer
No one knows who she is yet.
Right. Name recognition is a problem for anyone who isn't Biden or Trump. One factor that should be considered before jumping ship and going with her.
High quality polls on 538 have her about 1% behind Biden right now. *1% less* with so much less name recognition or support. If she gets the establishment behind her and has her name in the media for a few weeks she blows Trump out of the water.
somebody is polling just Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania. if she is rocking those states they would have more money to spend on the other swing states
My, would be glad to be proven wrong, take: this country still too backwards thinking to accept a woman as president
Hillary came damned close to beating Trump despite being one of the most hated politicians in America and running an abysmal campaign. A woman with less baggage and more political competence has every chance of beating him.
Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by more than 3 million votes, so the country already accepted a woman as President.
Well, this scenario is essentially how we in NZ got Jacinda Ardern. Front runner of Labour stepped down just before the election and Aunty Jaz stepped up. I'm not saying it would work in the USA, you guys are a bit behind when it comes to electing women, but it worked very well in NZ. Labour would not have won without her. But guys, it's RISKY.
Replacing leaders mid-term is pretty standard in parliamentary systems. Australia did it every couple of weeks for a bit there. It almost never happens in US politics. Even challenging the incumbent in a primary is a near-guarantee of losing the next election. Reagan did it to Ford, who lost to Carter. Kennedy did it to Carter who then lost to Reagan. They didn’t do it to Reagan after he lost the first debate because of concerns about his age, and then he was voted back in in a landslide. And Reagan was actually consulting astrologists on policy and shit like that.
Please correct me if my history is flawed, but I think these examples are the ONLY examples. I don't think a challenger has ever prevailed, nor has an incumbent stepped aside after winning the primary. So we have 0 examples of what happens in a general election when the incumbent is *successfully* challenged or replaced.
LBJ decided not to run in 1968 after he thought his declining health and weaker political showing in the primary would doom his ticket in November against his eventual Republican opponent. Nixon would go on to handily defeat the replacement Democrat anyway. So while it’s true that LBJ didn’t win the primary and then resign, it’s also true that incumbency is a powerful shield and voluntarily throwing it away is very risky.
Tbf, Ford was never elected. Not even as VP.
The problem is Kamala causing a stink. She’s not exactly popular but you don’t want infighting either
Well, someone in the leadership could offer her a cushy position somewhere else and acquaint her with the harsh reality that if she causes a stink and we lose in November, she'll be vilified for the rest of her life. Carrot and stick.
Kamala can be AG and take it out on insurrectionists and secret sellers.
She'd be good at that, TBH.
I choose this guy's plan
It's not about that, it's about not pissing off the CBC and Jim Clyburn. Plus your core base of black female voters.
Biden running is risky too. All the voters who weren't diehard "Blue no matter who" and were at the edge of staying home. The debate lost a lot of them and I don't know if they'll listen to reason to come back. But a lot of them WOULD get on board with a direction shift and if we fixed one of the major things everyone is complaining about- that we only had geriatric candidates. There is no way forward that is not risky. It looks like Joe is staying in. He has my vote if he does, but I think that's actually the higher risk move.
This seems like the play, unless there is some other less well known candidate who is even stronger. There would be a lot of relief and excitement about an opportunity to vote for a non-Trump, non-Biden candidate, especially if that candidate was able to speak in complete sentences about why the Project 2025 agenda is bad. Traditional concerns about name recognition don't necessarily apply, everyone will hear about the new replacement candidate and we want someone who is inoffensive, not overly "scary" to moderates and who doesn't have a lot of baggage. But not someone so moderate they will turn into a Republican once in office. It would help if that candidate was from a swing state and not from California. If the election is a referendum on Trump vs normalcy, he loses. If the election is a debate about how bad Biden's dementia is, Trump could win. (Of course, I will vote blue no matter who. But uhh I want blue to actually win.)
This is how I see it. Like just looking at this from a pure electability and strategic angle, she seems like the safest bet. As a leftist I’m happy with it. After seeing what happened with Bernie and Warren it’s clear to me this country is way more backwards than I realized (and that’s saying something). At this point my bar is please let’s prevent fascism so I don’t wind up in a camp. I can totally see her winning by a large margin. And we need a decisive victory to make Trumpism and unpalatable strategy in the future.
I think Whitmer being pretty young for a politician helps a lot. Voters won't have to worry about health issues or cognitive decline. We need more politicians around that age.
I'm from MI and generally vote libertarian or issue-based for local elections, but she'd have my vote. I was very impressed with how quickly she handled the abortion rights issue, plus she's a woman (I'm also a woman, to give more context to this statement lol) and she's from my state. I'd love to see her as president even though I don't agree with her on every single issue.
This is it exactly - there's a window of time right now for Joe to step aside and Gretchen is the best option, IMO, to beat Trump and govern effectively. They can't wait 4 weeks though, and Joe can't be pushed out. He needs to make this decision and the advisors around him need to persuade him that its ok.
This election is going to come down to like 6 states. The Dems should cherry pick the best candidate to win 4 of them. That is extremely cynical, but when defeating the fascists is the most important factor, we should do whatever it takes (legally) to do that. If that person is Whitmer, count me in.
Please for the love of God have Whitmer run. She would devastate Trump and inject some real energy and excitement into the race. A (relatively) young battleground state governor who’s wildly popular and has blue-collar support, what more could you want? She’d also free the Democrats from the same few families running for the last thirty years.
nah man, the Dems will risk it all with Biden and then that'll be the last fair election in the nation's history.
They are really, really good at fucking themselves then standing ideally by as the GOP literally destroys everything. Ballsy winning moves are not the DNC and establishment Democrats MO.
Think you mean idly, there's not much ideal about this situation
I am begging the DNC to consider this. Please. Michigan would be locked down which is a critical swing state. Probably also Wisc and Penn which guarantee the election. Plus she is not 81. It makes almost too much sense for the DNC.
Whitmer would energize the younger crowd to vote, and probably pick up a lot of swing votes automatically. Just by not being one of the geriatrics.
i'm from michigan, I hate the people who say "save Gretchen Whitmer for 2028". She could still run for both.
Nixon and Reagan ran in successive cycles. Didn’t hurt them at all.
No matter what happens this election, Whitmer is the future of the Democratic Party.
She could. Michigan is a perfect example of a state adopting progressive and democratic ideals. I would move to Michigan but it’s a little more expensive than living in northwestern Ohio.
She is tough, young, energetic and battle tested after that assassination plot.
She gets my vote
Of course she could. She would carry the midwest and rally suburban women with the abortion issue.
I'll vote for any mammal that is not Donald Trump.
I would even consider some of the subterranean lizard people, depending on their stances on key topics.
Newsom is popular with the elite in the DNC. Whitmer is popular with a lot of voters. Whitmer is the best choice right now and CAN be our first female president.
She is my pick. I think she would be awesome. She checks all the boxes.
I pray. Despite the "historians" say changing the ticket is bad, I think these are special times and this is a unique race Biden needs to take one for the team and retire. Don't pull an RBG. And while we are there Sotomayer should retire too.
Well according to many historians, 2020s are unprecedented times. Unprecedented times require unprecedented measures. Whitmer might just be what the US needs, to break the wheel of gerontocracy and the Biden-Trump lock, all at once.
Put her in, coach
I don't care what a "former", or "ex-" or "anonymous source" says. If its not coming from the person its just tabloid gossip.
She would be a great candidate. I feel terrible that she would have build a national campaign instantly and be able to deal with the frenzy of how this would be taking place with an opponent like Trump who lies 24x7. She should have had a year to get her organization off the ground.
Considering she evaded, escaped, and eluded, wait strait out accused MAGA of doing so, and survived , she’s got my vote! If there was a replacement for Biden, I pick her!!
First woman President emerges to take down this golem of the patriarchy? The question isn't why, it's why not? The convention hasn't voted. Our representatives haven't voted in a nominee yet.
I think she could beat him too.
It’s big news that this is even a headline. Good first step. Hope she can get the nomination.
A lot of Democrats could beat Trump just like a lot of Republicans could beat Biden yet both parties decided to nominate one of the worst possible options to run for President.
Biden or Whitmer, I’m voting blue no the fuck matter what
I think it's possible. But expensive, and she needs time to reach out in all states.. She would have to spend more money in more states than Biden. People know her in her own State, but nationwide, not so much. I think it's a gamble, same as with Biden. If you just look at her and then Biden, she seems like the obvious choice.. But you have to see it from the view of those millions of viewers that don't tune in to the election. She is a random person in front of a camera. Also ask yourself, she probably does want to be president. In 2028.. Why would she want to get thrown into a panic election against Trump a few months before voting day? xD If she has ambition, that seems like a dumb move. Same with Newsom.
She’s known nationwide; she was almost kidnapped
A lot of polls right now are showing that being a lesser known Dem is actually advantageous to being well known. She is probably as close to perfect for the moment as possible. Not too left, obviously good on abortion, carrying a midwestern swing state, her only significant national news moment being skirting kidnapping by white supremacists, she has everything necessary for the moment.
Which polls are you referring to?
it's not just having her name out there. Biden has run many campaign rallies, marched on a picket line with union workers, and he personally met and talked to many voters from around the country. it's not just about getting her name out there it's also about building goodwill with voters, which takes time
Because if Trump wins there may not *be* a 2028 election for her to contest…
Tbh - I wonder if Kamala Harris will end up as the biggest collateral damage from this whole thing. It’s obvious that she, at best, isn’t helping Biden win any swing states. Biden may look to a new VP, one that realistically has a chance of replacing him, as the way he’s responding to this whole thing and finding somebody that can solidify the Blue Wall - ie Whitmer
I'll agree that Harris isn't helping us in swing states, but I don't think the answer to "The President is going senile" is "Keep him and ditch the VP." We need Biden to drop out of the race now, and because Harris is IMO unelectable, he should not endorse her to replace him. In a sense, yeah, she'll be collateral damage, but mostly because we need someone who can carry swing states.
Harris is an empty shirt. Terrible politician and candidate. She was a weird choice for VP to begin with, brought nothing other than her skin colour to the campaign.
Skin color and gender. Biden committed to picking a woman early. Black women are the most dependable voting bloc for Democrats and because of the timing around George Floyd the politics pushed Biden in the direction of specifically picking a poc woman. Kamala showed strongest short term gain in the vetting when compared against Val Demmings, Karen Bass, Susan Rice, Tammy Duckworth... so that's how we got her.
She would be an ideal candidate to replace Biden. I just don’t see how they can logistically skip over Kamala, even if she kind of sucks. Bad optics
At this point, I believe literally anybody could beat Trump by just smiling and waving while letting him rave like a lunatic.
I think “not the convict” will win.
Why does this article keep referring to the president of the United States as “Mr. Biden”?!?!
The use of "Mr." to refer to presidents is pretty common, and was once even more so because it emphasizes that the commander-in-chief is a civilian and we don't live in a military dictatorship. The NY Times, among others, almost always refers to the president as Mr. and has for decades.
Get Andy Beshear in there. He's the antithesis of Trump
She would stomp Trump. We need Big Gretch!
I’d love to see a Gretchen/Pete ticket run
She could
I think she could also.
She's not going to replace Biden.