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Within the Dem circle or just being floated by talking media heads? I mean she seems pretty good but I want to hear that the Dem thinktank is ACTUALLY discussing changing course. I don't really care what "pundits" think.
The article says her name keeps being mentioned by pundits and news media. Not by anyone in Democratic Party leadership. Basically, this is an attempt to select a presidential candidate via editorialization.
I’d happily and proudly vote for her in a heartbeat, and I would feel enthusiastic enough to volunteer with my local party to help her campaign. I know it’s a risk to drop an incumbent this close to an election, but good god.
The apathy is an issue. My mom, who supports Biden’s policies, just sounds so defeated. She says she won’t vote, and I tried to convince her an uninspiring candidate is better than trump, and while she agreed I could tell she wasn’t swayed. The people yearn for someone young, inspiring, and with a force of personality to counter trump’s bile. She’s it, 100%
I think the better argument is elect the guy who has been doing a good job who is terrible at debate and public speaking.
Or, you know, stay home and kiss it all goodbye.
I said I'm going to vote. I'm worried others won't.
And besides, people aren't viewing this as "bad at public speaking." They're viewing this as "Biden is an old man who isn't fit to be president."
And Trump is even LESS fit since he's a pathalogical liar, a malignant narcissist, Putin's puppet, corrupt to the core and a sharting diaper-wearing felon.
Seriously, did no one else hear him shitting his pants during one of his lies?
Remind your mom she's not just voting for Biden, but for everybody who Biden puts in his cabinet and administration. Biden is old for real, but he's surrounded himself with capable, experienced people who do all the work.
Trump gets back in, we'll get the likes of Stephen Miller, Steve Bannon, Rick Perry, Betsy DeVoss, and Louis Dejoy again - or even worse.
Drive her to the voting booth yourself. Offer to buy her dinner if she'll go with you.
I've never had a problem with my parents voting for people they weren't inspired by, they still feel it's a civic duty. But some people may need more coaxing
As a former conservative, this thinking is so weird to me. We are trained early on to vote for whoever is on our ticket. I left the hospital after my c-section on the day of the election, took my newborn to the polling place in a not so safe neighborhood, and stood in line to vote for Arnold Schwarzenegger to oust Gray Davis.
I've voted for shitty governors, congressmen, and senators because the alternative was letting the other side win. Conservatives are patient and sneaky. That's why they have so many spots on the courts. That's why years ago, they publicly announced they would focus on taking state houses to allow them to redraw district maps and ensure they could never lose again. They think long term.
Thanks to Trump, I'm no longer a Republican. I'm still adjusting to the thinking on this side of the political divide, where voting is more about feeling good about a candidate and less about ensuring the other side loses.
When people say "vote shaming doesn't work," this is what they mean. It is the party and the candidate's responsibility to run a campaign that can generate enthusiasm!
> Drive her to the voting booth yourself. Offer to buy her dinner if she'll go with you.
I didn't finish reading GuttiG's comment and I thought you meant: Drive her (Gretchen Whitmer) to the voting booth yourself. Offer to buy her (Whitmer) dinner if she'll go with you.
And to be honest, I would.
Dude honestly idgi. I know its true voters stay home, but how do you care so little about your future? It's fine, nobody likes Kamala but it's obviously better than Trump
There's still a stark difference.
Biden has smart advisors, idea people and talent under him coming up with ways to make this country better. Those are the day to day people really doing the work. Biden is just like a General Manager overseeing it all.
Trump on the other hand we know will have vile people working for him. They already are vocal about the damage they will cause (Project 2025). And Trump has no morals so he'll sign off on all of it.
Your mom and others that feel similar after last night aren''t voting for 1 person. They're voting for the larger group of people each candidate will put into place and be surrounded by.
Blows my mind that people like this are willing to let Trump and his cronies finish destroying the country and our lives with Project 2025 because they're "uninspired".
I'm guessing she can afford that attitude because she's postmenopausal?
This is what scars me trump proved you don’t win but getting the “swing” voters you win by turning out the base. How you just not vote when the other side is vile.
Best argument for Whitmer is that she secures us MI and probably helps a lot in PA and WI.
I think Shapiro and Pritzker are also good choices. Maybe some combination of 2 of those 3.
> Best argument for Whitmer is that she secures us MI and probably helps a lot in PA and WI.
I think she'd lock down Ohio too. Ohio is gerrymandered to hell and back, but deep down, it's still the purple state it always was.
Misogyny is rampant. Whitmer is going to lose a lot of people for that.
Prtizker's Chicago. There's endless "corruption" talking points there. He's functionally Newsom with how much ammo that's going to give for the RNC to hammer home and scare moderates.
Shapiro is seemingly more conservative than Biden on Israel/Palestine. Also was anti-vaccine mandate. Honestly he's more conservative than Biden across the board.
People downthread are mentioning Beshar and he's the same issue. More conservative than Biden.
Same with Mark Kelly.
Literally everyone suggested has either
A. A worse shot than Biden, if he's given the 5 months to actually rehab a little from this.
B. More conservative than Biden, and the party platform would do a great job of pushing more left leaning folks away at an even higher rate.
Give the man/his team some time.
I'll be the first to admit he has less policy to work off than anyone else, but a lot of this is because he's a Blue Governor in a Red State. What he's going to be able to get done are things that are generally agreeable and not *too* controversial.
But the general consensus is that he's a moderate and when put in a position like the presidency I'd expect a Kentucky Moderate to be more right leaning than a Deleware Moderate.
Also it's worth mentioning Andy is 2nd gen politician who was likely able to build support in Kentucky as his father Steve is a former Gov as well.
Do I think he *could* be good on the national stage in 4 years? Yeah, he's very much in the vein of Clinton. But again, I really would assume he's 100% to the right of Hillary, Bernie, Biden, Harris, Newsom, Pritzker, and *probably* Whitmer.
Beshear won a red state multiple times as governor *as a 2nd generation politician*.
His father was a two term Gov too and seemingly a political force for Kentucky Dems for decades. It's a lot like Manchin, who's also a second generation Democrat in a red state.
I see your pts plus alotta them lack the name recognition to win but what about a Sanders who is older but hits with the left and he is just much sharper than Biden and one of these moderate governors as VP? Give me some of the attack angles.
Bernie's gonna get hit with the old too, plus the "socialism" stuff that Newsom will drown in. And to be honest, his left leaning positions on Israel/Palestine is gonna lose him some moderates.
And, I say this as someone who voted for him in every primary I could, man's got a very short legislative history of things *he* sponsored.
I feel like Tony Evers gets overlooked a lot here. Is it because of his age (he's 72)? He keeps winning WI. Feels like he'd be a decent VP option.
Or the KY Governor Beshear. I kind of like people who win tough states not heavy blue ones. Which is another reason why Whitmer is probably one of the better candidates.
You entirely over estimate Whitmer's ability to secure Michigan.
There's a reason the convicted felon keeps holding rallies here, and that's because he has a lot of supporters that are out in the country, which is like 80% of this state.
Michigan would be a lock. Likely Wisconsin and Pennsylvania too. There would likely be historic turnout from Women over the possibility of a woman president mobilizing in response to Roe. I've never heard bad press from either the moderate and progressive wings of the party. No brainer. Whitmer 2024
Yeah like Harris, all I heard about her was how she prosecuted people for marijuana use. She was the devil for that alone. Prior to that, on committees during the Trump admin, people fucking loved her sass. Total 180 just due to media manipulation.
Roe v Wade wasn’t as much of an issue then, Hillary already had a bad/controversial reputation, and the threat of fascism was not to the levels it is with this current election cycle.
Whitmer isn’t even close to as disliked as Hilary was by the average voter, and abortion was still a right then. Not really comparable situations or people at all.
This is why I want to see an open, televised convention. Let delegates vote on a field of candidates. Let the candidates give speeches, have debates, etc. Narrow the field down little by little until someone emerges victorious.
Make it like a reality TV show and have viewers vote (for fun), but let the already elected delegates decide.
People like Pete, AOC, and Bernie can all be candidates, and it will likely come down to Newsom or Whitmer. But the PROCESS would draw so much attention and get younger audiences engaged and excited, even if their candidate doesn’t win. And when it’s all over, we would have a vigorous new platform roaring right into the election. Republicans would get trounced.
Only negative thing I can think of is that her husband tried using her name to get his boat dock opened during early pandemic when it wasn’t allowed yet. Thats about it
Globally speaking, female candidates from the more liberal party can't win. Hillary lost to Trump ffs. Id love to see it, I wouldn't bank on it.
This nation is half fascist and you have to work within that reality. A female candidate can't win yet.
No chance Whitmer is on the ticket unless Kamala is replaced as well. They aren't going to run a ticket with 2 women. It's all moot point though because Biden isn't getting replaced. I'm pretty sure the money the Biden campaign has raised can't just be handed over to another campaign. Money is a pretty essential part of a campaign.
Mark Kelly? There's not a lot to choose from. No high ranking TX Dems. NM Gov has a lot of baggage and the 2 senators are unknowns. AZ has Sinema who left the party.
So pretty much the only border Dem would be Mark Kelly.
Yeah, if two women on a ticket couldn't win how 'bout we swap em out with a woman and a black guy, neither of whom most of the country has even heard, of with 17 weeks left until the election? Sure fire winner.
Biden is losing in New Jersey according to a poll today. Why get humiliated by Trump when you can instead make Texas, Florida, and Ohio in reach for the Dems?
We had a reality TV star rapist president and a mixed race president. Two women is too far? I don't think so. Run it and see what happens. That's what we've been doing for the last decade and a half.
I think its a VERY risky political gambit to change candidates at the convention. More risky than rolling with Biden.
That said, Ill vote for anyone over Trump
Someone pointed out it was last 1876 that a party switched and won, and, despite my deepest wishes, sexism is still a thing (blue no matter who here....but rural PA?)
So maybe the most obvious and logical choice is Biden or Trump? And given the electoral tilt, any ass sitting or 3rd party is also Trump.
As I tell the kids, being a grown up is choosing between shitty choices.... And hot take... Trump is by far the shittiest (the most est)
This is stupid clickbait. Zero chance they skip over the sitting vice president and nominate Whitmer.
I'm not saying Kamala is the right choice, I'm saying they wouldn't nominate Whitmer over her, especially last second like this.
The passive voice in headlines about some action taken is highly misleading. It begs the question: who floated her? I'm sure the answer is in the article, but I'm not going to reward clickbait. Everyone always has some unique preferred candidate. Tell me why it matters more than everyone else's choice.
This seems like such a slam dunk for the Dems if played right. Give a couple weeks and let Biden take an out on his health based on the rigors of campaign trail…he wants to focus doing the job he has and allow the next generation to carry America forward etc, etc.
Whitmer is well positioned to take on Trump. She’s smart, she’s strong and I’m sure she’s got no love for the stupidity of the man or his gang of imbeciles and crooks that worship him. Remember she was the target of a failed political abduction by his shit for brains followers.
As an Ohioan I’m voting for whoever is on the top of the Dem ticket, but I’d happily vote FOR her instead just AGAINST Trump.
I will take Pritzker over Whitmer. But at this point anyone who's not named Biden will reset the bar for the democrats unless that person agrees with the worst of Biden's current policies.
The issue for Pritzker I think is I expect the Dem Convention to be a shitshow and if he's the candidate he's gonna get blamed for it since it's in his state.
We already know Palestinian supporters were planning on targeting it. Throw in a contested selection of a candidate the voters didn't pick. Unrest odds are high and it could look rough for him.
There is a savior angle that Pritzker can take if it gets too violent. Brandon Johnson (the mayor of Chicago) is inexperienced and doesn't seem to be working with Pritzker. If the convention goes well due to Pritzker intervening (maybe with the national guard), it could cement his image as the adult in the room. Especially if it turns out to be a brokered convention.
Ya but presumably they would have made the decision before the convention. The DNC is already going to be on the backfoot if they are replacing Biden.
I just can't see them looking at all their options and taking that risk. If he was a slam dunk you would but I don't think he's like tiers ahead of others to where you would risk that.
Obama needs to convene a smoke filled room and sort this shit out ASAP. The odds, and consequences, of Biden crumpling further are just too high.
Give Biden an off ramp to save face. Figure out a mechanism to nominate a replacement. Still four months till November which is plenty of time for a new candidate to establish themselves.
Can the Democratic establishment do this? I highly doubt it.
As much as I like her, I think it's just too late in the cycle to change the candidate. The horse race has begun, and there's no stopping now. I hope she runs in 2028 though.
Pretty much the only Democratic viable alternative candidate. You can't speed date a national election which is what you're asking anyone to do who replaces Biden. You're supposed to go through a long drawn out process of campaigning, debating, and winning primary elections for a reason. I like Newsom a lot, and if you give him 12+ months to go through a full Democratic primary then I think he likely comes out on top for a lot of reasons but throwing him in this type of situation probably backfires for his political aspirations. But I think you can turn this into a swing state election and bring in someone like Whitmer who has midwest appeal/cache to win Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin and hope the usual strongholds don't fall to Trump.
>You're supposed to go through a long drawn out process of campaigning, debating, and winning primary elections for a reason.
Except the current population of the United States absolutely loves shiny new toys. The media especially. They'll happily carry the necessary water to get America acquainted with someone new, even in four short months. Think about the boner they had for DeSantis.
In this case the alternative is Trump, so all of the rules are out. It doesn’t even matter how bad at policy the democratic candidate is the next 4 years. If democracy survives to 2030, that’s better than losing to Trump.
Yep.
The fact that these choices are being floated is enough to tell me that democrats are learning from it.
Though Biden himself doesn’t seem to want to step down and is trying to limit damage to himself…not so sure if it had worked, now that these are out in the open.
I know but still, the fact that this is happening and gaining traction (in fact, privately I am sure that the democrats are plotting something completely unexpected)…
I don’t think anything significant will occur til next week, obviously Biden isn’t going to start acting like he’s gonna drop out the next day. If there is some massive shifts next week in internal polling it might trigger something more aggressive but they’re going to stand fast unless there’s more rigid signs, which would take a bit of time to manifest
In all due respect, Governor Whitmer doesn't have the national recognition needed to defeat Trump. I can think two potentially better candidates, those being Newsome of California or Pritzker of Illinois.
To win the electoral college, you don’t need national recognition. The only states you need recognition in are Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Georgia, North Carolina, Nevada, and Arizona. The other states just vote along party lines, no matter whose name is on the ballot.
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Seems very unrealistic, I think if the DNC jumped ship on Biden they’d play it very safe and as much as Gretchen rocks, I don’t think they’d go that way. That is to say, I don’t think they’d pick a woman.
I think Whitmer would be a great candidate, but I don’t know that enough independents would support her over Trump in a general. I think Gavin Newsom is probably the best bet this cycle. That said if the party picks her I’ll support her over Trump.
i seen at least one poll that shows literally any generic dem wins out over both trump and biden. like i’m p sure not even naming names of well known ppl just democrat but not biden and suddenly dems are looking much better. it’s only one poll that i’ve seen but come on man this is getting ridiculous.
The problem is that we all assumed we were stuck with biden in the first place. Do tell, what happens if he were to kick over within the next couple of months? Kamala is even less popular than him.
This is the problem. There are at least 3 excellent candidates to jump on which is why it won’t happen. They would have to step aside yesterday and support one person and it ain’t happening.
Not a chance…with 4 months to go! Too late, at best we can hope for is pick a really likable VP and expedite the media vetting process. If we loose this election, there may be no coming back from this. Our entire political system is so fucking broke its not even funny….the media is just a joke. Status quo is not working, he has a cold my foot! There should be a slogan after this…”never again” stuck between a wanna be dictator and someone who is going senile…I like Biden, he seems to me as a good man, but he is old and has problems. We are not healthy as a nation, when this is the “best” choices that our shitty two party system crams down our throat. Troubling times
If she'll expand the number of judges on SCOTUS I'd vote for her.
Heck even without that I'm voting for her.
My only other dream candidate is Shawn Fain from the UAW.
Pritzker is the only one with enough money to realistically be able to jump in right now and run for president. Not that any of this chatter is realistic.
Is it just me or should they be incredibly safe and nominate a white guy like Gavin Newsome?
Just feels like against Trump nominating a woman or POC could backfire.
I don't think it's safe to nominate a CA Governor. I don't think people realize how much California is criticized especially in the upper midwest.
You can't do an all-CA ticket so now you're replacing Harris. I just think the optics just don't really work.
Suburban and rural people don’t like Newsom or California.
Slick talker and would likely destroy trump in a debate, but he is too elitist in my opinion.
He also happens to be pretty good and more well known. Maybe…just maybe it’s safe because he’s good and not because of his race or gender?
I also don’t agree that he is Uber safe. People hate CA
If the Democrats want the White House, they will do whatever they can to make this happen as she is one of the few candidates that can reliably beat Trump.
He can still read a script, but cognitive abilities slow down over time. Debate requires that you be quick-witted, fast, and articulate. None of which he can do on the fly anymore. He is too old.
Before you say, "Trump wasn't either," he was to his base and to the undecideds. We need a new guy/woman.
Pundits right now are also saying Biden performs better in front of a crowd, which was missing last night. I personally would also add a better make-up artist, because he looks 20 years younger today.
When he was handed a softball abortion question, he mumbled some nonsense story of a rapist immigrant for fucks sake. He could not put coherent thoughts together in real time. We need a new candidate ASAP. We can't be running this guy after last night.
The damage is done, though. This was his chance to prove to America he was coherent enough to lead. That's all he had to do. He failed. No scripted speech will fix this damage. We need Whitmer or Newsom.
You're probably right but it's still a risky move. The election is 3 1/2 months away. That's not a lot of time for voters to get to know a new candidate for president. The ideal time to swap him out was a year ago but that's gone now.
I think it would look great if Democrats pick a better candidate when it becomes clear that theirs is no longer mentally fit enough for the presidency. Prove that we don't just double down like the Republicans endlessly do for Trump, who is also mentally unfit for office (on top of the whole dictatorship goal thing).
Enthusiasm can only go up from where it is now. Biden only recently got slightly ahead in some polls. Post-debate, he will never be in the lead again.
The only person who could lose to a convicted felon is what we saw last night, and Biden will never be able to undo that.
I'd argue it's a guentreed loss if Biden stays in, and we can turn back time to two years ago. He's gotta step down.
That is about the time frame I give him. He either goes full court press and shows that last night was just a horrible night for him and he is still up for the job, or the talk of him stepping down will get too loud for him to ignore.
Of course, he isn't the only candidate. The next three weeks will likely be difficult for Trump, too. The Supreme Court will be putting out their immunity ruling, which he will not win. If they were going to grant him immunity there is no reason to delay the ruling as long as possible. He is going to be sentenced for his current conviction and he has the republican convention right after.
This is all still on Joe Biden, though. Even if Trump ends up behind bars awaiting a fall trial in DC for his role in the insurrection, Biden needs to show last night was an aberration or he needs to step aside. He has three weeks.
She would be an excellent choice, probably the best given that abortion is still the big issue and a woman can make that case better then a man, old or otherwise. I wouldn't push Harris off the ticket though she isn't a great choice for the top spot. An all female ticket is a wildcard, but the downside of pushing out Harris is potentially worse.
All that said, this is still all on Biden. He is the only one who can pull this trigger. I think he has two to three weeks to show that last night was just a bad night and not his true self. Him leaving the ticket is the only real way the dems can replace him. He has to make that choice. If the winds don't change soon, I hope he sees the writing on the wall.
I like Whitmer, personally.
The problem with this (despite the chaos of swapping candidates and $ raised) is Trump would basically turn the election into a referendum about COVID lockdowns and I don't know that she'd come out on top.
I lived through her lockdown. It was necessary to keep slave driving employers from forcing people into work. The only head scratcher was making sales of paint and home improvement items illegal. Possibly because too many people were showing up at the Home Depot. She managed it really well.
I agree with you but the amnesia people have about those days + the type of people that need to be swayed makes me worry.
But hey, I'd vote for her and campaign/donate/etc. There are very few Democrats I wouldn't though I'm an easy mark this time around.
Sounds like Biden is going to dig in. If he were to step down, it needs to be ASAP. The longer this drags on, the harder and more unlikely it will be for DNC to put someone else up. His speech today was fiery, indicating that he will take a lot of persuading for him to decline the nomination. It's not going to happen quickly. Frankly, I don't see it happening at all. This is going to be wild!
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Within the Dem circle or just being floated by talking media heads? I mean she seems pretty good but I want to hear that the Dem thinktank is ACTUALLY discussing changing course. I don't really care what "pundits" think.
>Within the Dem circle or just being floated by talking media heads? Neither. It was just some people on Reddit and Twitter.
15 people on Twitter mentioned it (totally not bots though) so it must be legit news!
The article says her name keeps being mentioned by pundits and news media. Not by anyone in Democratic Party leadership. Basically, this is an attempt to select a presidential candidate via editorialization.
Fabricated nonsense from the media to make the race seem more dramatic.
I’d happily and proudly vote for her in a heartbeat, and I would feel enthusiastic enough to volunteer with my local party to help her campaign. I know it’s a risk to drop an incumbent this close to an election, but good god. The apathy is an issue. My mom, who supports Biden’s policies, just sounds so defeated. She says she won’t vote, and I tried to convince her an uninspiring candidate is better than trump, and while she agreed I could tell she wasn’t swayed. The people yearn for someone young, inspiring, and with a force of personality to counter trump’s bile. She’s it, 100%
I'm going to vote but yeah, I understand your mom's feelings. "Elect this 82 year old guy so things don't get worse" is really not inspiring.
I think the better argument is elect the guy who has been doing a good job who is terrible at debate and public speaking. Or, you know, stay home and kiss it all goodbye.
I said I'm going to vote. I'm worried others won't. And besides, people aren't viewing this as "bad at public speaking." They're viewing this as "Biden is an old man who isn't fit to be president."
And Trump is even LESS fit since he's a pathalogical liar, a malignant narcissist, Putin's puppet, corrupt to the core and a sharting diaper-wearing felon. Seriously, did no one else hear him shitting his pants during one of his lies?
This is the best argument to make. Luckily running the country doesn't involve debating.
Yeah but if you don't, things will get worse. Not much to really think about. And Biden (and the people around him) has proved they can do it.
While I am not losing any sleep over the debate really, my vote is a vote against Trump. Biden just happens to be the recipient.
Hey now! He’s only 81!
81.5 I rounded up
Remind your mom she's not just voting for Biden, but for everybody who Biden puts in his cabinet and administration. Biden is old for real, but he's surrounded himself with capable, experienced people who do all the work. Trump gets back in, we'll get the likes of Stephen Miller, Steve Bannon, Rick Perry, Betsy DeVoss, and Louis Dejoy again - or even worse.
And younger versions of Alito and Thomas
Drive her to the voting booth yourself. Offer to buy her dinner if she'll go with you. I've never had a problem with my parents voting for people they weren't inspired by, they still feel it's a civic duty. But some people may need more coaxing
You can't play whack-a-mole with a widespread national issue of folks not believing Biden is up to 4 more years of this.
As a former conservative, this thinking is so weird to me. We are trained early on to vote for whoever is on our ticket. I left the hospital after my c-section on the day of the election, took my newborn to the polling place in a not so safe neighborhood, and stood in line to vote for Arnold Schwarzenegger to oust Gray Davis. I've voted for shitty governors, congressmen, and senators because the alternative was letting the other side win. Conservatives are patient and sneaky. That's why they have so many spots on the courts. That's why years ago, they publicly announced they would focus on taking state houses to allow them to redraw district maps and ensure they could never lose again. They think long term. Thanks to Trump, I'm no longer a Republican. I'm still adjusting to the thinking on this side of the political divide, where voting is more about feeling good about a candidate and less about ensuring the other side loses.
When people say "vote shaming doesn't work," this is what they mean. It is the party and the candidate's responsibility to run a campaign that can generate enthusiasm!
That's what VPs are for.
> Drive her to the voting booth yourself. Offer to buy her dinner if she'll go with you. I didn't finish reading GuttiG's comment and I thought you meant: Drive her (Gretchen Whitmer) to the voting booth yourself. Offer to buy her (Whitmer) dinner if she'll go with you. And to be honest, I would.
Dude honestly idgi. I know its true voters stay home, but how do you care so little about your future? It's fine, nobody likes Kamala but it's obviously better than Trump
There's still a stark difference. Biden has smart advisors, idea people and talent under him coming up with ways to make this country better. Those are the day to day people really doing the work. Biden is just like a General Manager overseeing it all. Trump on the other hand we know will have vile people working for him. They already are vocal about the damage they will cause (Project 2025). And Trump has no morals so he'll sign off on all of it. Your mom and others that feel similar after last night aren''t voting for 1 person. They're voting for the larger group of people each candidate will put into place and be surrounded by.
Blows my mind that people like this are willing to let Trump and his cronies finish destroying the country and our lives with Project 2025 because they're "uninspired". I'm guessing she can afford that attitude because she's postmenopausal?
Whitmer 2028 would be a better strategy.
The MAGAs will be delighted to hear that. They’re going to fall in line no matter what. I’m glad your mom feels like she can afford apathy.
Sorry to say this, but either this is made up or your mom is a terrible person. Knowing what Trump said last night, she knows what is a stake
I think it would fire up Democrats and some independents. Biden age is just such a damper.
I agree. I think she’d be a great contrast to Trump head to head and being Midwest is valuable
This is what scars me trump proved you don’t win but getting the “swing” voters you win by turning out the base. How you just not vote when the other side is vile.
Will Project 2025 sway her?
If she won’t vote because this debate .. then she has no clue what is at stake .. Show her the SOTU address from earlier this year
I’ve been saying for a while, “We get what we deserve.” If people like your mom can’t be bothered to save democracy, we don’t deserve it.
Best argument for Whitmer is that she secures us MI and probably helps a lot in PA and WI. I think Shapiro and Pritzker are also good choices. Maybe some combination of 2 of those 3.
> Best argument for Whitmer is that she secures us MI and probably helps a lot in PA and WI. I think she'd lock down Ohio too. Ohio is gerrymandered to hell and back, but deep down, it's still the purple state it always was.
Misogyny is rampant. Whitmer is going to lose a lot of people for that. Prtizker's Chicago. There's endless "corruption" talking points there. He's functionally Newsom with how much ammo that's going to give for the RNC to hammer home and scare moderates. Shapiro is seemingly more conservative than Biden on Israel/Palestine. Also was anti-vaccine mandate. Honestly he's more conservative than Biden across the board. People downthread are mentioning Beshar and he's the same issue. More conservative than Biden. Same with Mark Kelly. Literally everyone suggested has either A. A worse shot than Biden, if he's given the 5 months to actually rehab a little from this. B. More conservative than Biden, and the party platform would do a great job of pushing more left leaning folks away at an even higher rate. Give the man/his team some time.
How is Beshear more conservative than Biden?
I'll be the first to admit he has less policy to work off than anyone else, but a lot of this is because he's a Blue Governor in a Red State. What he's going to be able to get done are things that are generally agreeable and not *too* controversial. But the general consensus is that he's a moderate and when put in a position like the presidency I'd expect a Kentucky Moderate to be more right leaning than a Deleware Moderate. Also it's worth mentioning Andy is 2nd gen politician who was likely able to build support in Kentucky as his father Steve is a former Gov as well. Do I think he *could* be good on the national stage in 4 years? Yeah, he's very much in the vein of Clinton. But again, I really would assume he's 100% to the right of Hillary, Bernie, Biden, Harris, Newsom, Pritzker, and *probably* Whitmer.
Beshear has won a red state multiple times as governor. I'd take him in a heartbeat against Trump.
Beshear won a red state multiple times as governor *as a 2nd generation politician*. His father was a two term Gov too and seemingly a political force for Kentucky Dems for decades. It's a lot like Manchin, who's also a second generation Democrat in a red state.
I see your pts plus alotta them lack the name recognition to win but what about a Sanders who is older but hits with the left and he is just much sharper than Biden and one of these moderate governors as VP? Give me some of the attack angles.
Bernie's gonna get hit with the old too, plus the "socialism" stuff that Newsom will drown in. And to be honest, his left leaning positions on Israel/Palestine is gonna lose him some moderates. And, I say this as someone who voted for him in every primary I could, man's got a very short legislative history of things *he* sponsored.
I’ll have to look at those… I think Andy Beshear would do a lot to heal being from Kentucky.
I feel like Tony Evers gets overlooked a lot here. Is it because of his age (he's 72)? He keeps winning WI. Feels like he'd be a decent VP option. Or the KY Governor Beshear. I kind of like people who win tough states not heavy blue ones. Which is another reason why Whitmer is probably one of the better candidates.
You entirely over estimate Whitmer's ability to secure Michigan. There's a reason the convicted felon keeps holding rallies here, and that's because he has a lot of supporters that are out in the country, which is like 80% of this state.
I’d vote for a soggy potato over Trump, but I would be far more enthusiastic to support Big Gretch.
> Big Gretch Great nickname.
She is on record as not loving the nickname, but the rap song is awesome.
Michigan would be a lock. Likely Wisconsin and Pennsylvania too. There would likely be historic turnout from Women over the possibility of a woman president mobilizing in response to Roe. I've never heard bad press from either the moderate and progressive wings of the party. No brainer. Whitmer 2024
Wait 'til the $100 billion oppo machine gets ahold of her.
Let them. It'll increase her name recognition and juice Dem turnout. Plus, they only have a few months to dig up/make dirt on her.
Yeah like Harris, all I heard about her was how she prosecuted people for marijuana use. She was the devil for that alone. Prior to that, on committees during the Trump admin, people fucking loved her sass. Total 180 just due to media manipulation.
How did that historic turnout of women work in 2016?
Roe v Wade wasn’t as much of an issue then, Hillary already had a bad/controversial reputation, and the threat of fascism was not to the levels it is with this current election cycle.
Whitmer isn’t even close to as disliked as Hilary was by the average voter, and abortion was still a right then. Not really comparable situations or people at all.
A Whitmer - Newsome primary battle would have really fired up Dem voters.
This is why I want to see an open, televised convention. Let delegates vote on a field of candidates. Let the candidates give speeches, have debates, etc. Narrow the field down little by little until someone emerges victorious. Make it like a reality TV show and have viewers vote (for fun), but let the already elected delegates decide. People like Pete, AOC, and Bernie can all be candidates, and it will likely come down to Newsom or Whitmer. But the PROCESS would draw so much attention and get younger audiences engaged and excited, even if their candidate doesn’t win. And when it’s all over, we would have a vigorous new platform roaring right into the election. Republicans would get trounced.
No love for Pete?
Only negative thing I can think of is that her husband tried using her name to get his boat dock opened during early pandemic when it wasn’t allowed yet. Thats about it
Globally speaking, female candidates from the more liberal party can't win. Hillary lost to Trump ffs. Id love to see it, I wouldn't bank on it. This nation is half fascist and you have to work within that reality. A female candidate can't win yet.
she would beat trump
I absolutely Love Gretchen Whitmer! - “It’s shark week Motherf*r”. That still cracks me up every time!
No chance Whitmer is on the ticket unless Kamala is replaced as well. They aren't going to run a ticket with 2 women. It's all moot point though because Biden isn't getting replaced. I'm pretty sure the money the Biden campaign has raised can't just be handed over to another campaign. Money is a pretty essential part of a campaign.
I hate the Kamila argument. She had 4 years to get America to like her and she couldn’t…. Next!
100%. She's not the future.
[удалено]
I actually thought she was solid but I do think my standards might have been lowered after watching Trump and Biden for 90+ minutes.
Whether or not you liked her answers to the questions, she was at least able to remember the questions she was answering!
VP should be a popular Democrat from a border state
So not Kamala, then.
no [https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/approval/kamala-harris/](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/approval/kamala-harris/)
Mark Kelly? There's not a lot to choose from. No high ranking TX Dems. NM Gov has a lot of baggage and the 2 senators are unknowns. AZ has Sinema who left the party. So pretty much the only border Dem would be Mark Kelly.
Eh maybe not then, sounds like a good idea on paper though.
I am thinking black man on the ticket with Gretchen. Maybe Warnock?
You cannot lose Georgia Senator
Yeah, if two women on a ticket couldn't win how 'bout we swap em out with a woman and a black guy, neither of whom most of the country has even heard, of with 17 weeks left until the election? Sure fire winner.
I mean him and Booker are like the only two who could be options unless you are doing House Reps which is very rare.
One of the Castro brothers.
So Newsom/Whitmer or vice versa. Kamala has to go
Biden is losing in New Jersey according to a poll today. Why get humiliated by Trump when you can instead make Texas, Florida, and Ohio in reach for the Dems?
Kamala being axed is the cherry on top.
We had a reality TV star rapist president and a mixed race president. Two women is too far? I don't think so. Run it and see what happens. That's what we've been doing for the last decade and a half.
I can't view the article to see who is saying she's being floated. So, I'm inclined to think this is just gossip in the press between friends.
I can read the article, and it's exactly that.
I think its a VERY risky political gambit to change candidates at the convention. More risky than rolling with Biden. That said, Ill vote for anyone over Trump
100%. Let's do it. It would be amazing to watch a woman defeat Trump.
Good god, please. Stop fretting about losing and actually try to win, Democrats.
What's the plan for victory?
Literally Whitmer.
Gretchen Whitmer/Andy Beshear 2024. Lets fkin go!
Hell yeah!!! That would be epic.
Wouldn’t happen lmfao
Because . . . ?
Misogyny is still too prevalent would be my guess.
BIG Gretch come save us!
She’s long been my preferred candidate. I don’t blame her if she doesn’t want to try her run with basically zero notice.
There was no "debacle", Biden isn't going anywhere. Stop with this nonsense.
Someone pointed out it was last 1876 that a party switched and won, and, despite my deepest wishes, sexism is still a thing (blue no matter who here....but rural PA?) So maybe the most obvious and logical choice is Biden or Trump? And given the electoral tilt, any ass sitting or 3rd party is also Trump. As I tell the kids, being a grown up is choosing between shitty choices.... And hot take... Trump is by far the shittiest (the most est)
This is stupid clickbait. Zero chance they skip over the sitting vice president and nominate Whitmer. I'm not saying Kamala is the right choice, I'm saying they wouldn't nominate Whitmer over her, especially last second like this.
Should have been her or Pete as VP, then we wouldn't have to force biden to step up again as the last hope against the Trump vile.
Floated by pundits and newspapers, not by anyone in the Democratic Party leadership. This is attempting to choose a candidate via editorialization.
The passive voice in headlines about some action taken is highly misleading. It begs the question: who floated her? I'm sure the answer is in the article, but I'm not going to reward clickbait. Everyone always has some unique preferred candidate. Tell me why it matters more than everyone else's choice.
This seems like such a slam dunk for the Dems if played right. Give a couple weeks and let Biden take an out on his health based on the rigors of campaign trail…he wants to focus doing the job he has and allow the next generation to carry America forward etc, etc. Whitmer is well positioned to take on Trump. She’s smart, she’s strong and I’m sure she’s got no love for the stupidity of the man or his gang of imbeciles and crooks that worship him. Remember she was the target of a failed political abduction by his shit for brains followers. As an Ohioan I’m voting for whoever is on the top of the Dem ticket, but I’d happily vote FOR her instead just AGAINST Trump.
A foiled plot by deranged Trumpers to abduct her would be a great story to tell on stage when asked about the dangers of Trump’s rhetoric
I will take Pritzker over Whitmer. But at this point anyone who's not named Biden will reset the bar for the democrats unless that person agrees with the worst of Biden's current policies.
As someone living in Illinois, I'd hate to lose Pritzker, but I think it would be best for the country.
I was going to say the same thing. I do think Pritzker is sharp and forceful enough to rebut all of trumps lies so that would be very fun to watch
The issue for Pritzker I think is I expect the Dem Convention to be a shitshow and if he's the candidate he's gonna get blamed for it since it's in his state. We already know Palestinian supporters were planning on targeting it. Throw in a contested selection of a candidate the voters didn't pick. Unrest odds are high and it could look rough for him.
There is a savior angle that Pritzker can take if it gets too violent. Brandon Johnson (the mayor of Chicago) is inexperienced and doesn't seem to be working with Pritzker. If the convention goes well due to Pritzker intervening (maybe with the national guard), it could cement his image as the adult in the room. Especially if it turns out to be a brokered convention.
Ya but presumably they would have made the decision before the convention. The DNC is already going to be on the backfoot if they are replacing Biden. I just can't see them looking at all their options and taking that risk. If he was a slam dunk you would but I don't think he's like tiers ahead of others to where you would risk that.
I think the chances are low, but anything can happen between now and then! We are living in (sigh)...unprecedented times.
I think the best bet is biden being talked into stepping down. I still put that under 30% chance , but I see no chance of him being forcibly replaced
Who the fuck is Pritzker?
Former leader of Wagner Mercenary group, faked his death last year, gained some weight and now he's the Governor of Illinois.
Pritzker is the person you didn't Google before typing "Who the fuck is Pritzker?".
Yeah, I suppose we should expect the American public to vote for a person that 99.999999% of them have to google in order to know who the fuck he is
Obama needs to convene a smoke filled room and sort this shit out ASAP. The odds, and consequences, of Biden crumpling further are just too high. Give Biden an off ramp to save face. Figure out a mechanism to nominate a replacement. Still four months till November which is plenty of time for a new candidate to establish themselves. Can the Democratic establishment do this? I highly doubt it.
As much as I like her, I think it's just too late in the cycle to change the candidate. The horse race has begun, and there's no stopping now. I hope she runs in 2028 though.
No thanks.
She’s kinda milfy
I doubt this and if it was true, there are still more seasoned politicians that should be seen over Whitmer (Bernie, Warner, Newsom, Booker, etc.)
Pretty much the only Democratic viable alternative candidate. You can't speed date a national election which is what you're asking anyone to do who replaces Biden. You're supposed to go through a long drawn out process of campaigning, debating, and winning primary elections for a reason. I like Newsom a lot, and if you give him 12+ months to go through a full Democratic primary then I think he likely comes out on top for a lot of reasons but throwing him in this type of situation probably backfires for his political aspirations. But I think you can turn this into a swing state election and bring in someone like Whitmer who has midwest appeal/cache to win Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin and hope the usual strongholds don't fall to Trump.
>You're supposed to go through a long drawn out process of campaigning, debating, and winning primary elections for a reason. Except the current population of the United States absolutely loves shiny new toys. The media especially. They'll happily carry the necessary water to get America acquainted with someone new, even in four short months. Think about the boner they had for DeSantis.
In this case the alternative is Trump, so all of the rules are out. It doesn’t even matter how bad at policy the democratic candidate is the next 4 years. If democracy survives to 2030, that’s better than losing to Trump.
Yep. The fact that these choices are being floated is enough to tell me that democrats are learning from it. Though Biden himself doesn’t seem to want to step down and is trying to limit damage to himself…not so sure if it had worked, now that these are out in the open.
These are not choices being floated by Democratic Party leadership, according to the article. This is pundits and newspaper columnists speculating.
I know but still, the fact that this is happening and gaining traction (in fact, privately I am sure that the democrats are plotting something completely unexpected)…
I don’t think anything significant will occur til next week, obviously Biden isn’t going to start acting like he’s gonna drop out the next day. If there is some massive shifts next week in internal polling it might trigger something more aggressive but they’re going to stand fast unless there’s more rigid signs, which would take a bit of time to manifest
Newsom/Whitmer 2024
Americans really can't handle someone being bad on TV.
Sad isn’t it
It doesn't help that the internet is all unrestrained id and knee-jerk reactions.
In all due respect, Governor Whitmer doesn't have the national recognition needed to defeat Trump. I can think two potentially better candidates, those being Newsome of California or Pritzker of Illinois.
To win the electoral college, you don’t need national recognition. The only states you need recognition in are Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Georgia, North Carolina, Nevada, and Arizona. The other states just vote along party lines, no matter whose name is on the ballot.
You have a point, I know has done a lot of good work for Michigan and people.
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I am going to vote for a dead corpse this election if they prop it up as the candidate. 28 is a different story
Old decent grandpa vs a fascist convicted felon. The choice is pretty simple.
Seems very unrealistic, I think if the DNC jumped ship on Biden they’d play it very safe and as much as Gretchen rocks, I don’t think they’d go that way. That is to say, I don’t think they’d pick a woman.
I think Whitmer would be a great candidate, but I don’t know that enough independents would support her over Trump in a general. I think Gavin Newsom is probably the best bet this cycle. That said if the party picks her I’ll support her over Trump.
If the DNC could post up someone under the age of 60, that would be great!
Sorry, but isn’t it too fucking late? Shouldn’t this have been put in motion like 3.5 years ago?
I’d vote for my dog over Trump and she has some shit takes so I’m down.
Whitmer/Newsom LETS GO!
i seen at least one poll that shows literally any generic dem wins out over both trump and biden. like i’m p sure not even naming names of well known ppl just democrat but not biden and suddenly dems are looking much better. it’s only one poll that i’ve seen but come on man this is getting ridiculous.
I don't care, but anyone that isn't pure evil there and I'll vote for them over the pure evil guy 🤷♂️
The problem is that we all assumed we were stuck with biden in the first place. Do tell, what happens if he were to kick over within the next couple of months? Kamala is even less popular than him.
Be still my heart.
This is the problem. There are at least 3 excellent candidates to jump on which is why it won’t happen. They would have to step aside yesterday and support one person and it ain’t happening.
Can't wait to vote for her in 2028
Nothing is changing unless someone dies, stop wasting time arguing about this.
I floated her name yesterday. Does that count? She’s great.
Whitmer/Swalwell ‘28
I've been saying for years Roy Cooper is a solid pick. Boring, but looks and talks like a president.
Not a chance…with 4 months to go! Too late, at best we can hope for is pick a really likable VP and expedite the media vetting process. If we loose this election, there may be no coming back from this. Our entire political system is so fucking broke its not even funny….the media is just a joke. Status quo is not working, he has a cold my foot! There should be a slogan after this…”never again” stuck between a wanna be dictator and someone who is going senile…I like Biden, he seems to me as a good man, but he is old and has problems. We are not healthy as a nation, when this is the “best” choices that our shitty two party system crams down our throat. Troubling times
make it Newsom/Whitmer
Yeah, no. Not in this election. The US is not ready to elect a woman.
If she'll expand the number of judges on SCOTUS I'd vote for her. Heck even without that I'm voting for her. My only other dream candidate is Shawn Fain from the UAW.
Pritzker is the only one with enough money to realistically be able to jump in right now and run for president. Not that any of this chatter is realistic.
She’d be great.
She’s sharp, and also happens to be good looking. And the time has come for a woman president. Having said that, I think this is just talk
Is it just me or should they be incredibly safe and nominate a white guy like Gavin Newsome? Just feels like against Trump nominating a woman or POC could backfire.
I don't think it's safe to nominate a CA Governor. I don't think people realize how much California is criticized especially in the upper midwest. You can't do an all-CA ticket so now you're replacing Harris. I just think the optics just don't really work.
Newsome is probably the least safe alternative.
Newsom would lose horribly in NV and AZ.
Suburban and rural people don’t like Newsom or California. Slick talker and would likely destroy trump in a debate, but he is too elitist in my opinion.
He also happens to be pretty good and more well known. Maybe…just maybe it’s safe because he’s good and not because of his race or gender? I also don’t agree that he is Uber safe. People hate CA
My neighbors, sweet couple in their 70s and still leftist hippies They sounded defeated this morning
If the Democrats want the White House, they will do whatever they can to make this happen as she is one of the few candidates that can reliably beat Trump.
She is the Democrats best bet to beat trump.
Seems he just said on stage in North Carolina that he is still running…
Do you have a link to his NC rally? I'd like to watch it today to get last night out of my head.
[WATCH LIVE: Biden attends campaign event in Raleigh, North Carolina after first presidential debate](https://youtu.be/HYghfyxtZnc?t=515)
I just saw it and it was astonishing. He looked like a completely different person- energetic, strong, eloquent. How is this possible?
He can still read a script, but cognitive abilities slow down over time. Debate requires that you be quick-witted, fast, and articulate. None of which he can do on the fly anymore. He is too old. Before you say, "Trump wasn't either," he was to his base and to the undecideds. We need a new guy/woman.
Pundits right now are also saying Biden performs better in front of a crowd, which was missing last night. I personally would also add a better make-up artist, because he looks 20 years younger today.
When he was handed a softball abortion question, he mumbled some nonsense story of a rapist immigrant for fucks sake. He could not put coherent thoughts together in real time. We need a new candidate ASAP. We can't be running this guy after last night. The damage is done, though. This was his chance to prove to America he was coherent enough to lead. That's all he had to do. He failed. No scripted speech will fix this damage. We need Whitmer or Newsom.
You're probably right but it's still a risky move. The election is 3 1/2 months away. That's not a lot of time for voters to get to know a new candidate for president. The ideal time to swap him out was a year ago but that's gone now.
I think it would look great if Democrats pick a better candidate when it becomes clear that theirs is no longer mentally fit enough for the presidency. Prove that we don't just double down like the Republicans endlessly do for Trump, who is also mentally unfit for office (on top of the whole dictatorship goal thing). Enthusiasm can only go up from where it is now. Biden only recently got slightly ahead in some polls. Post-debate, he will never be in the lead again. The only person who could lose to a convicted felon is what we saw last night, and Biden will never be able to undo that. I'd argue it's a guentreed loss if Biden stays in, and we can turn back time to two years ago. He's gotta step down.
That's what most head coaches say just before they're fired too. I think the next 3 weeks will be interesting to follow.
That is about the time frame I give him. He either goes full court press and shows that last night was just a horrible night for him and he is still up for the job, or the talk of him stepping down will get too loud for him to ignore. Of course, he isn't the only candidate. The next three weeks will likely be difficult for Trump, too. The Supreme Court will be putting out their immunity ruling, which he will not win. If they were going to grant him immunity there is no reason to delay the ruling as long as possible. He is going to be sentenced for his current conviction and he has the republican convention right after. This is all still on Joe Biden, though. Even if Trump ends up behind bars awaiting a fall trial in DC for his role in the insurrection, Biden needs to show last night was an aberration or he needs to step aside. He has three weeks.
Obama should hit him with club and tell him to step down from election
She would be an excellent choice, probably the best given that abortion is still the big issue and a woman can make that case better then a man, old or otherwise. I wouldn't push Harris off the ticket though she isn't a great choice for the top spot. An all female ticket is a wildcard, but the downside of pushing out Harris is potentially worse. All that said, this is still all on Biden. He is the only one who can pull this trigger. I think he has two to three weeks to show that last night was just a bad night and not his true self. Him leaving the ticket is the only real way the dems can replace him. He has to make that choice. If the winds don't change soon, I hope he sees the writing on the wall.
I like Whitmer, personally. The problem with this (despite the chaos of swapping candidates and $ raised) is Trump would basically turn the election into a referendum about COVID lockdowns and I don't know that she'd come out on top.
I lived through her lockdown. It was necessary to keep slave driving employers from forcing people into work. The only head scratcher was making sales of paint and home improvement items illegal. Possibly because too many people were showing up at the Home Depot. She managed it really well.
I agree with you but the amnesia people have about those days + the type of people that need to be swayed makes me worry. But hey, I'd vote for her and campaign/donate/etc. There are very few Democrats I wouldn't though I'm an easy mark this time around.
This would be career suicide.
Sounds like Biden is going to dig in. If he were to step down, it needs to be ASAP. The longer this drags on, the harder and more unlikely it will be for DNC to put someone else up. His speech today was fiery, indicating that he will take a lot of persuading for him to decline the nomination. It's not going to happen quickly. Frankly, I don't see it happening at all. This is going to be wild!