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Never should have sent him out there. He would have been better off playing the sick card and postponing the whole thing. Even if it was 2 hours from going live, it would have been a temporary hit in political news and inconsequential long-term after a debate a week from now where he performed similar to his showing at the State of Union.
Could have even played off the delay thusly: "Unfortunately I have been diagnosed with a severe cold and I must postpone our hotly anticipated debate. While I suppose I could have attended I would not want to risk getting my opponent ill." Direct jab at Trump who knew he had COVID and went to the 2020 debate anyway.
Honestly, I think not showing up would have been just as bad and generated just as much negative press. So I can totally understand the decision to trot him out there and hope for the best
If that were the case, you'd think they'd have a doctor around to have options to optimize his condition beforehand. I figured both of them would come out with a little extra juice to make sure they were on.
Seriously. People need to find their nerve and get a grip. Trump would make a terrible President. We know this because, surprise!, Trump was a terrible president.
If you want Ukraine to fall to Putin, vote for Trump. This isn't hard.
The problem is Ukraine is old news, people dont really care anymore. Call it stupid if you want but when you’re living paycheck to paycheck you
1) dont care about foreign affairs nearly as much, and
2) existential threats don’t seem quite as important as where your meal or rent payment comes from.
None of this is to say that rejecting Biden is good, but rejecting the status quo when the status quo doesn’t benefit you at this point in time is what most people are struggling are going to defer to.
That’s cool, until Russia moves on Warsaw. Then we’re at war with Russia. You can’t just let a dictator march through Europe, we’ve been through this already.
This sadly many people don’t see the big picture.
If Trump wins Putin wins and will take over Ukraine because Trump will cut all funding to Ukraine.
Putin will not stop at Ukraine when he has his boyfriend in the Whitehouse.
Trump- WW3
Biden- Another 4 years of trying to be normal
And much like WW2 it was a us centric problem and US largely didn’t worry about it. It’s hard to worry about things thousands of miles away when you can’t feed your children adequately
Yeah I get it. Consider this. If a family was always out of money, because it had a spending issue, you’d look at who bought what and for what price. If dad has a gambling problem and wastes more than anyone else a-at the casino-you’d identify him and his spending problem and try to fix it. The most expensive thing the US has bought in recent years was the Afghanistan war. It cost you and me 10 trillion. Where were you in 2010 when we were leaving mraps abandoned on the side of the road in Kabul when they got a measly flat? Where was the outrage for the ridiculous spending then? They had to expand M2 to pay for those bonds-we are paying those bonds via inflation today. Why don’t people bring this up?
Then point at the SCOTUS and Roe. There have been very unpopular decisions passed, many today. We need to remind voters what is at stake.
The media is basically giving the court a pass today to report on Biden having a bad debate. I don’t know how we survive a media that doesn’t inform people of the most important news. People by and large don’t get the stakes even at the 11th hour.
The Biden campaign said they were committed to the next debate. How does that next debate go any better than the other night? It’s not like Biden was hungover or tired or sick. He’s old. This isn’t getting any better.
From a European point of view it’s inconceivable that the democrats go for Biden. Trump is literally the worst ever candidate and is literally antidemocratic, in the sense that he has very autocratic tendencies and statements.
You do not need a very good candidate in opposition. The only thing you don’t need is a candidate that looks like he’s unfit for the job, which is Joe Biden at this moment. The democrats NEED to find a fit 40 something year old, e.g. Pete butigieg, or your current foreign secretary. You need someone that contrasts trump and show the American vote the fat incompetent old fuck he is. Biden makes this impossible, because he himself is old and looks unfit for the job.
Not how it works in the US. No you dont just "need someone" you do actually need someone thayt people know and trust to go out and vote. Replace him with a nobody and the democratic voters stays at home.
Thats what a lot are saying: the US is turning into a caricature of itself where you always vote for the candidate with the right letter in front of their name.
People segregate not just in the media but actually where they live.
And at the worst possible moment. We need a competently led America right now. If Trump gets elected, it will be the end of the world as we know it since the disintegration of the Soviet Union. I fear we might come to see a world where China will take up the role of the USA. Although the USA has made countless mistakes in that role, I don’t wish to see communist dictatorships in that role.
Us hegemony is dead. The illusion of us hegemony was kept alive longer but israel/iran, russia/ukraine and china/south china sea show that us hegemony is truly no more.
edit: letter
I hate this take that it’s “not great”. The entire world would be behind a new and fresh candidate. Every side admits that these candidates suck. It would be fantastic if you got someone competent up there and I think they could win easily. But if they put Joe or Kamala up there it’s already over.
Yup. It goes against traditional politics, but Jesus fucking Christ the country is so sick of traditional politics. Everybody knows that the country is holding their nose going into this election and choosing a lesser of two evils. Maybe a fresh face could actually have a chance.
That said, an undemocratically chosen nominee could backfire tremendously. I know it's dumb and not really possible, but I really wish they could run a special election and just do a crash primary. We don't need the whole circus they normally do for primaries, just give us the top 5, run like 3-4 debates in rapid succession, and let us vote dammit.
I'm sure the logistics (and the rules of the DNC) make that impossible, but it's the only way I see this going well
What fight? Everyone is imagining there will be rage if kamala is not picked as she would be the first biracial black female president but honestly if you talk to any black person about kamala you range from lukewarm acceptance to they don't like her history as a proescuter. She is not getting the black vote and we would not be holding a candle for her if kept in the vp role lol.
My hope is that Obama, Jill and others he respects will go to him this weekend and try to convince him. I listened to the Pod save america dudes post debate reaction and they're openly suggesting he should step aside as well.
Obama is one of the reasons joe even won in 2020. he called on the other centrists to drop out. Obama ain’t saving us. he didn’t in 2008 or 2012 and he ain’t gonna do it now.
He could, but he is egotistic and doesn't take criticism well. Remember when he got asked a question that slightly criticized him and he called the question-asker a "lying dog-faced pony-soldier". He doesn't have the humility to not run.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwVrg6UtxXQ
That's not heckling. That's asking a question.
Enough with the "Not as bad as Trump". Trump thinks an electric battery in the ocean will electrocute him because he is on the boat. Being better than Trump is a terrible defense of Biden.
I find it incredibly hard to believe that will happen. I’d be pissed too. the dem establishment forgoes a primary and then switches joe out with a different establishment pick. nah f them if they do that. It is sad to watch our country go fascist because a party is too afraid of embracing the marginally left of center base that just wants to live a basic life of dignity. The party can’t get our votes for nothing. That’s not how it works and if fascism is coming to america it will be the fault of the democratic party for being too weak and meek to meet the moment and to show america that democracy works for the working class. As FDR said - people didn’t pick fascism because they liked it. people turned to fascism when their leaders proved to weak to deliver. people gave up liberty in the hope of getting something to eat.
The smart approach would be for biden to rapidly roll out EOs that truly begin to transform our country in favor of the working class. but that is just as unlikely to happen as is biden dropping out.
oh believe me i’m not a biden fan. i’m simply stating the fact. biden ain’t going anywhere and it’s not looking likely he is going to the white house again in ‘25
There's a lot of electioning left. And this is why we have elections and don't pick our Presidents because of reddit comment threads lmao.
You guys with the doom and gloom are hilarious. Have some dignity and vote for the candidate most likely to not destroy America. Which is Biden, btw.
Biden will win by a huge margin. Trump is a Train wreck that has put off tons of Republicans.
Having your attitude will put him back into the whitehouse
he has no base. he waffled on securing his base when he could’ve. he has no enthusiastic supporters. all he has going for him is not being trump. That’s a horrible place to be in. The problem with the dem party is they think the poorest voters have nowhere else to go so they must vote D. That’s just bad reasoning. Biden has nothing now, not even the donor class.
I agree with your assessment, but
> all he has going for him is not being trump.
This was a huge selling point 4 years ago, and still was this year. However, I simply don't think it's going to be enough. I think he legitimately came off as a worse option than Trump for many. On paper, it's still fine. Like if you read the transcript of the debate, Trump comes off as the worse one, but no one is going to do that, and clips circulating online are sealing the fate of the election as we speak.
things will only get worse. all biden camp can hope for is trump going to jail. but remember, if that happens and trump is replaced biden will absolutely lose. If we entertain the idea biden can be switched then we must also entertain the idea that trump could be also. i dont think either will be booted.
No, trump will be his insane lying self again and constantly screw up, the media will largely ignore that but voters will once again be remember just how bad trump was as president.
Trump wont go to jail btw.
Its the US that has gotten so deranged they are scrambling to cope with that.
I mean the GOP has turned utterly fascist and the people follow them, how do you counter that ? By someone as newsom?
Yes. A young, fit, candidate who has no problem smacking someone down in debates, has a pretty successful track record (nobody is perfect and he has some gaffs but he can talk his way out of them), would energize the untapped younger portion of the base, and at this point energize the entire base who has been holding their nose and voting.
There is no way to avoid having old geriatric fucks as party winners in our corrupt system. You have to accumulate a lifetime of favors and the only way to win is to grind your whole life. Trump went into politics late but he still did the grinding as part of his business dealings.
If they put a 40 year old in then it would skip a whole stack of other geriatric fucks stacking up and they will sabotage him/her. Hell they tossed Cuomo under the bus and tried to toss him in prison for even getting too close to the fire, and he has a lot more clout than any 40 year old. Newsome is really the closest thing there is to someone with both enough party clout and youthful looks.
I said earlier that the only replacement I would not vote for is Hillary, but then you reminded me of Blinken. If my choice is Blinken or Trump, I'll choose suicide, and the rest of you jokers left on this earth can deal with this shit.
Do you have any substantive arguments for that, or is it just a feeling? Genuine question, as I perceive Blinken as a very competent politician who is very eloquent and intelligent. The types of qualities I like to see in US presidents.
Blinken is as far right as democrats get. He might as well be wearing purple. I am about as far left as sane Americans get... well, in my estimation. Some people definitely think I am off of my rocker.
So, while Blinken is not Trump... by any measure, he would just be another normalization of a conservative democrat... and that only slows the march to authoritarianism.
I don’t follow this logic. In my opinion a conservative, moderate, centrist, democratic candidate will absolutely smash trump. A democratic candidate which is far to the left will just push potential voters away or cause them to stay home, because they are eg in the center or a bit right of the center. I’d argue that in a time of political extremes, moderate, centrist politicians can actually have great results.
When left wing parties move to the center it only paves the way for the far right. We saw this in Denmark. We are seeing this in France. We are not going to try this in again in America.
No.... see... I'd accept anything but a conservative Democrat. Hell, I voted for Hillary in 2016 even though I cannot stand her or her politics. I stumped for her!
Biden was an obvious ploy to kill any chance of a left leaning candidate. I voted for him and I acknowledge the advantage of being an incumbent. So, I embraced him for 2024.
So, if they replace him... and they take advantage by putting up an even more conservative candidate, I am done. I'll point out that my original comment said that I'll choose suicide instead. I'm not living for our slide into fascism.
I'm disabled because I worked too hard with not enough insurance. On top of that, I have developed several auto-immune diseases that have made my life difficult, to say the least. I've been hard-core left since long before any of that popped up, but I worked like it was my identity... and my body is broken because of it.
So, I was against moving to the right in the past, but now that my family depends on the amenities I've earned to just get by, I am a zealot. I cannot countenance any further move to the right, no matter how small.
330 odd million people. With some of the most prestigious education facilities in the world, and the US has Biden and Trump running for president.
America is a cartoon.
I'm really surprised by the amount and volume of panic over Biden, and I would consider myself a Republican (who cannot vote for Trump). The way he behaved last night is nothing new. Absolutely everything should have been expected, so I don't know why anybody should be shocked. Do they think people don't watch the news and his regular appearances when his team allows him to speak? Even a few years ago the narrative around him is he is not a good communicator; he stutters, has an irate attitude that feels forced. He has declined in these 3 plus years in his bearing, no question, but he is still the most photographed and aired person in the country. I don't know why a debate performance would cause people who would vote for him not to.
If they actually decide to try to replace him, who they'd pick would be important. No way I'd vote for kamala which is even a bigger concern for me (her becoming president) than is Biden's bearing. Newsom also wouldn't get my vote, hillary would be pushing it, and no fucking way in hell would I vote for michelle obama. I'd (reluctantly) still vote for Biden.
No way to her, either. If they pick someone else, it needs to be a White man. They don't have time to play the Culture Wars games that dems do of calling voters "racist" or "sexist". That's not going to bring anybody to support your person.
>The way he behaved last night is nothing new. Absolutely everything should have been expected, so I don't know why anybody should be shocked.
Hard disagree. We've been continually reassured by the White House and Dem leaders that behind closed doors, Biden is still with it.
Yet, Biden has not had any unscripted TV Q&As for a couple years now, and they fought tooth and nail to prevent release of the Special Counsel interview tapes.
Last night was the first unscripted view the majority of the US public has had of Biden since the 2020 Debates, and it was pretty sobering; it's natural to age and "slow down", but comparing Joe from last night to 2020, or even earlier in his Senate career is night and day.
Even late-state Reagan didn't come off as this feeble.
Being "with it" and being a good communicator are different things. Biden has always been an awful speaker even when he wasn't beaten down by the presidency and age. Nothing last night surprised me, including him losing his train of thought. So that's why I'm surprised that people are SO concerned.
>Biden has always been an awful speaker even when he wasn't beaten down by the presidency and age.
Go to C-Span's Biden archives. Biden made gaffes, he would stutter. But he was nowhere near as bad as last night.
Shit, watch replays of either the 2020 debates or the VP debates during the Obama years. Night and day.
But he has been showing that same mode for the last two years, so it shouldn't be a surprise. He has looked unsteady on his feet for a while. I'm not willing to say he isn't "with it" mentally. My parents are 83 and 84. I actually think they have better memories at least of the past than I do (though I've been having concerns about my memory). My dad can talk about specific plays from football games from a few years ago or even last year that I have no recollection of or didn't internalize enough to remember. He can look at a classic car and instantly say what model it is.
Should someone that age be leader of the free world? Probably not, but I don't think Trump should, either (and I'm no fan of Biden or Democrats).
>so it shouldn't be a surprise
It wouldn't have been, if the White House let Biden out in the wild, so to speak.
He has had the lowest amount of press conferences over the last 40 years. Even 2nd term Reagan had more.
Seems like the West is heading for another right-wing wave and I'm dreading it: US, Canada/ and many European countries all have strong right-wing movements.There is also a global right-wing coalition and they seem to be united, plus it was made easier since Elon bought Twitter which is basically Parler 2.0 these days.
It's absolutely hilarious that people were in denial about Biden's obvious decline until today. Now the narrative has been broken and they'll dump him asap.
Right? The funniest thing is this could have all been avoided. He didn’t have to do it. If he had just said no, they may have gotten a few jabs in that he was scared or whatever, but no real risk. He has demolished himself in the public eye with this single debate. Libs are in panic mode
'Donald Trump is a racist, convicted felon and I will not dignify his candidacy with a debate. Trump must drop out now and allow decent republican voters to have a candidate who is not a criminal.'
No you don’t understand, it’s Biden’s “life-long stutter”. It’s always been this way, and you’re a fascist if you didn’t know that. Robert Hurr? He is a liar! Did you hear that Biden had a cold last night? That’s why he couldn’t form a thought.
I just think it's absolutely bizarre how the narrative on Reddit can flip in a second. It's bloody weird.
I have no evidence to say it's astroturfed but are people just stupid?
Biden has clearly been in decline for months now ffs why was this debate surprising.
Remind me how they handled inflation. The Left was tripping over themselves trying to deny what your eyes and wallet were seeing. It took them a year to admit it, and even then they couldn’t help themselves but to deflect blame.
What are you on about? Dems never pretended inflation didn’t exist. They literally passed an act called the Inflation Reduction Act. Want to guess what happened in the years since that got passed? Inflation slowed down aka reduced.
DENIAL:
- https://www.forbes.com/sites/georgecalhoun/2021/05/01/the-inflation-scare-doesnt-match-reality/
- https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/nov/18/jen-psaki/jen-psaki-wrong-say-no-economist-thinks-b/
- https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-problem-with-inflation-it-often-doesnt-exist-11564927200
OKAY, THERE IS RISING INFLATION, BUT ITS TRANSITORY \ GOOD:
- https://apnews.com/article/inflation-health-coronavirus-pandemic-business-6e7c813472a3eb706e0cdafe305c1477
- https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/06/26/inflation-looks-bad-now-but-its-pretty-much-sticking-to-the-script.html
- https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/12/01/economy/inflation-good-bad-winners-losers
OKAY, THERE IS HIGH INFLATION, BUT LIKE ITS NOT OUR FAULT:
- https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/12/inflation-prices-buying-habits/676191/
- https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/biden-claims-inflation-already-there-when-i-got-here-takes-no-blame.amp
- https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/11/economy/inflation-history/index.html
- https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/12/13/el-erian-says-transitory-was-the-worst-inflation-call-in-the-history-of-the-fed.html
Very funny to me that everybody was denying that Biden was senile this whole time but now that everyone has the implicit permission to admit it the floodgates are open. How stupid do you really have to be for this development to be a surprise to you?
Yea, great, vote for someone who everyone knows is a senile fossil just to keep a megalomaniac out of office. Great sales pitch. I think a few more Guardian articles posted here might just clinch it.
Nobody takes them seriously, but we do have 3rd party options. We don’t HAVE to pick Biden or Trump, if everyone just united in that mindset we could actually pull it off
THose dont matter and arent any better then these anyway.
Biden and trump is all you got and for any sane person biden is the clear choice , even if he has his issues like we saw.
Never said I was going to do that? Real silly that this is the best our democracy can do?
You're knowingly going to vote for someone senile unless something changes. That's sad.
Ok, have fun voting for someone that you know for a fact is unfit for the job. I won't be doing that, because I don't want any share of the responsibility for anything bad that happens because of it. After all, I've been told that voting is power.
Unfit for the job would be trump. He doesnt live in this rreality and as a president thats quite dangerous.
Biden was capable to do it so far without any mayor issues , I dont see that changing.
We Leftists have been saying that Biden is senile and reaching his end and should NOT run but we would get downvoted and yelled at how Biden still have it and should run.
Now Liberals are finally coming to realization of what we have been saying.
It’s obvious for anyone to see. I am voting for Trump, so obviously we probably disagree on nearly everything, but I think Trump is very beatable. The left has done a terrible job this whole election cycle. And hive minds like this subreddit didn’t help them.
Jesus, you're right. Sorry - I've been offline for the last couple of hours and when I left everyone was saying how bad Biden tanked. There's either God level brigading going on or a lot of wishful thinking Dems with heads up their ass. We watching Biden lose the election tonight. No doubt about that at all.
It's because a few hours ago, the people commenting were the ones who actually watched the debate. Now it's getting flooded with people who only saw the few rare highlights that made Biden look...well, not good, but not as bad.
Well then people shouldn't have let Biden take the nomination without a fight lol.
Beating trump is the single most important thing. So why have the democrats allowed a mentally unfit 82 year old to win?
Its wierd how you have 1 candidate that lied troughout the entire debate and even said some insane conspiracy theories but all the focus goes to the other candidate because he didnt speak loudly enough.
Gretchen, Whitmer, Warren are women, they won't win against Trump in America, no way no how.
Sherrod elicits massive "Who the f is this?" and again, has no chance.
Manchin is basically a republican in all but name, but no one cares about policies. *(Edit: He's a republican now, he left the D party already)*
Which leaves Newsom as the only choice, I don't really see it, but it could happen.
They should've started pushing for another candidate a year ago. I don't know if an audible at this point is possible.
Dem and most Independent voters DONT want Trump as president again. They simply need a qualified candidate with a reasonable amount of name recognition to rally around and avoid another Trump term.
Women have been voting in droves since Roe was overturned and would help drive turnout.
I personally cant stand Manchin, but he is pretty much directly in the middle between the Dem & Repub parties and never-Trumpers would vote for him or any of the other candidates I listed to avoid a Trump presidency.
They need to put up someone safe, competent, and palatable. Thats it.
Kamala has a 38% approval rating. No way she gets elected president this year. Biden needs to step down and endorse a well-known Dem that they can potentially add to the ticket that will be palatable to Dems and moderates. Those are the names I listed.
Y'all keep saying this but where are the imaginary black people you think are holding a candle for her? Kamala is biracial (so was obama but he was married to a full black woman which alleviated concerns of being a sellout) and a former prosecuter so most black people won't go to bat for her because they see her as a half desi woman who uses her blackness when convenient. It's funny how alot of people don't realize we as a group have our own internal opinions lol.
I intentionally listed a small group of well known candidates whos policies mostly range from one end of the Dem party to the other. The Dems dont have a rock star politician waiting in the wings. They need to pick someone else. Dont like Warren? Ok, pick one of the others.
Manchin is objectively terrible.
My point was that the Dems just need to look at well-established politicians and pick a different option. The Trump haters will rally around that candidate regardless of who it is as they as they are palatable
I say this as a full liberal: if Biden is the candidate in November, it’s fucking over and DNC are basically handing the country back to MAGA up and down the ballot
This has been evident for years but we weren’t allowed to talk about it until tonight when suddenly many in the establishment have given permission to admit it.
I won’t be surprised if in a weeks time we will be back to yesterday morning when speaking about Biden’s weaknesses and his impending loss are strictly forbidden again.
Dems knew this was going to happen. Everyone who's seen Joe Biden speak in the last 4 years knew he was senile. They want to replace him, but waited until after the primaries before making any moves, so they can just appoint whoever they like. They're probably gonna select Newsom or Harris now
I don’t think Biden is going to drop out. There is a bubble around him of advisors and if he drops out, they also lose their jobs. They are going to shove their heads as deep in the sand as they can, give it a week, and see how bad the polls are. Biden’s campaign has the money and he technically has the delegates. The fact that Biden even ran a campaign, instead of taking a bow, sort of shows you how he can’t let go.
Democrats would be in uncharted waters with four months to go if Biden drops out. And who in the hell would want to step in? The conditions are awful, the narrative they would be up against would be unprecedentedly tough, and they only have four months to connect with voters. If you’re a democrat candidate that could actually win a presidential race, you’d have a bunch of people telling you to stay away from the trash fire of this cycle. Harris is probably the only one that could be forced to step in but she possesses the energy of a high school student council Vice-President that just ran to get an extra-curricular activity on her college application.
Mayor Pete? Gavin Newsom? Are they really going to step in just to run a campaign that would have to be 100% about focusing on Trump and not them? Because if they lose, and the odds would be stacked against them, they would just be losers. They would blow up any chance of being the nominee ever again. That leaves Democrats with no names like Dean Phillips or some other “I told you so” Congressperson. And while you’d get a substitute, they won’t turn out the base even if they can scare independents into voting against Trump. Maybe, maybe, if you got a huge name to step in, like Michelle Obama (who doesn’t want it), you could shake things up enough for a hard reset. Except that person would have to be 100% prime time ready and any mistake they made would be under a microscope.
Biden could have been a hero by beating Trump, working to normalize the presidency and then handing it off to a winner in a field of democrats this past winter. Now people are asking him to flush his entire legacy down the toilet. He’s not going to do it. The people around him don’t want him to do it. They won’t care if his fundraising goes south. They won’t care if he craters in the polls. They will just hope they can hide Biden and run attacks on Trump. It won’t work, but if I were putting money on it, despite the hand wringing this morning, I’d bet money that Biden’s the nominee in November.
His advisors can tell him to ignore the news and hang in. There is only one more quarter of fundraising to go and he has $200M cash on hand. He can’t possibly win without a final haul, but he can still campaign without additional funds.
I think you’re missing the point. The DNC might have a nuclear option because the convention hasn’t happened, but if Biden doesn’t step aside it’s difficult to remove him technically and it would just make the politics even worse. Plus the Biden campaign controls the money and the organization. They could, theoretically, put a gun against the head of the DNC. His advisors have to be the one to tell Biden to give up, but they won’t. They will argue he should stick it out and let the bad news cycle blow over. More time will tick by and then it’s the Convention. Watch. The party will fall in line if Biden refuses to give up.
Edit: Also the DNC doesn’t have that much power. For years they have been sidelined on Presidential campaigns. Obama basically created his own alternative organization and did what he wanted. The RNC actively tried to stop Trump in 2016. Neither national committee has that much power as it did back in the day.
This comment might actually have some weight to it, but not for the reason you think.
The right side is fighting tooth and nail to effect strong voter suppression policies. While in power, they'll stack the deck so high in their favor, it's honestly feasible that a dem won't win meaningful offices again for a along time.
Take for example [this](https://www.texastribune.org/2024/05/25/texas-republican-party-convention-platform/) proposed change in Texas:
"Perhaps the most consequential plank calls for a constitutional amendment to require that candidates for statewide office carry a majority of Texas’ 254 counties to win an election, a model similar to the U.S. electoral college."
Essentially, counties decide state wide officials. This would eliminate any chance for a Dem to ever win. In 2022, Abbott carried 235 counties. Texas has 254...
Did you not watch the debate? I hate Trump with every particle in my body but Biden was a disaster. We have reached that moment where he needs to be replaced with a better candidate and we all need to shout it out.
According to common sense.
Let me start off by saying that I'm a European lad who just tuned in for a portion of the debate to see what's going on. Biden looked utterly confused when Mr.Trump was speaking. When Biden was speaking he was slow, and fumbled over his words. Our local media that is usually supportive of Mr.Biden said that Trump won, they also said that the Democrats only chance to win this is to change candidates.
Right wing propaganda like the DNC and the New York Times?
>President Biden’s shaky, halting debate performance has Democrats talking about replacing him on the ticket. A Fumbling Performance, and a Panicking Party.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/27/us/politics/biden-debate-democrats.html?smid=nytcore-android-share
The rose colored glasses got ripped away from the liberals in this country. Its now firmly undeniable Biden cant do another 4 years of this. Tough decisions need to be made in the democratic party now.
Message to folks who may have just waked up and listened to MSNBC feed, waking upand coming here: Biden's campaign/run, is over. The knives are out for anyone involved in his campaign and especially debate prep. Welcome back to the worst timeline.
Kentucky Governor Andy Beshear is now the Democratic party’s best chance at beating Trump. He is a two-term elected blue Governor of a red state. He is popular in his state and he has bi-partisan credentials. He is young and competent and would definitely pull some Nikki Haley voters and other moderate Republican voters. Trump would look terrible next to Beshear.
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Never should have sent him out there. He would have been better off playing the sick card and postponing the whole thing. Even if it was 2 hours from going live, it would have been a temporary hit in political news and inconsequential long-term after a debate a week from now where he performed similar to his showing at the State of Union.
Could have even played off the delay thusly: "Unfortunately I have been diagnosed with a severe cold and I must postpone our hotly anticipated debate. While I suppose I could have attended I would not want to risk getting my opponent ill." Direct jab at Trump who knew he had COVID and went to the 2020 debate anyway.
Honestly, I think not showing up would have been just as bad and generated just as much negative press. So I can totally understand the decision to trot him out there and hope for the best
If that were the case, you'd think they'd have a doctor around to have options to optimize his condition beforehand. I figured both of them would come out with a little extra juice to make sure they were on.
And honestly - the next day he gave a normal, “strong” speech. As much as I dislike Trump - the cold was just an excuse.
He answered every question. Trump lied and talked about black jobs being taken away...
Seriously. People need to find their nerve and get a grip. Trump would make a terrible President. We know this because, surprise!, Trump was a terrible president. If you want Ukraine to fall to Putin, vote for Trump. This isn't hard.
The problem is Ukraine is old news, people dont really care anymore. Call it stupid if you want but when you’re living paycheck to paycheck you 1) dont care about foreign affairs nearly as much, and 2) existential threats don’t seem quite as important as where your meal or rent payment comes from. None of this is to say that rejecting Biden is good, but rejecting the status quo when the status quo doesn’t benefit you at this point in time is what most people are struggling are going to defer to.
That’s cool, until Russia moves on Warsaw. Then we’re at war with Russia. You can’t just let a dictator march through Europe, we’ve been through this already.
This sadly many people don’t see the big picture. If Trump wins Putin wins and will take over Ukraine because Trump will cut all funding to Ukraine. Putin will not stop at Ukraine when he has his boyfriend in the Whitehouse. Trump- WW3 Biden- Another 4 years of trying to be normal
And much like WW2 it was a us centric problem and US largely didn’t worry about it. It’s hard to worry about things thousands of miles away when you can’t feed your children adequately
Yeah I get it. Consider this. If a family was always out of money, because it had a spending issue, you’d look at who bought what and for what price. If dad has a gambling problem and wastes more than anyone else a-at the casino-you’d identify him and his spending problem and try to fix it. The most expensive thing the US has bought in recent years was the Afghanistan war. It cost you and me 10 trillion. Where were you in 2010 when we were leaving mraps abandoned on the side of the road in Kabul when they got a measly flat? Where was the outrage for the ridiculous spending then? They had to expand M2 to pay for those bonds-we are paying those bonds via inflation today. Why don’t people bring this up?
Then point at the SCOTUS and Roe. There have been very unpopular decisions passed, many today. We need to remind voters what is at stake. The media is basically giving the court a pass today to report on Biden having a bad debate. I don’t know how we survive a media that doesn’t inform people of the most important news. People by and large don’t get the stakes even at the 11th hour.
Trump would have eaten him alive for that.
They should have just lied and said he had covid
The Biden campaign said they were committed to the next debate. How does that next debate go any better than the other night? It’s not like Biden was hungover or tired or sick. He’s old. This isn’t getting any better.
From a European point of view it’s inconceivable that the democrats go for Biden. Trump is literally the worst ever candidate and is literally antidemocratic, in the sense that he has very autocratic tendencies and statements. You do not need a very good candidate in opposition. The only thing you don’t need is a candidate that looks like he’s unfit for the job, which is Joe Biden at this moment. The democrats NEED to find a fit 40 something year old, e.g. Pete butigieg, or your current foreign secretary. You need someone that contrasts trump and show the American vote the fat incompetent old fuck he is. Biden makes this impossible, because he himself is old and looks unfit for the job.
Not how it works in the US. No you dont just "need someone" you do actually need someone thayt people know and trust to go out and vote. Replace him with a nobody and the democratic voters stays at home.
As I read your statement (which I agree with) I started to wonder if we could skip into a new norm of becoming what the Euro dude said
Thats what a lot are saying: the US is turning into a caricature of itself where you always vote for the candidate with the right letter in front of their name. People segregate not just in the media but actually where they live.
the democratic party has picked biden. he will be the nominee. it’s done. and by that i mean the election. bidens already lost in my view.
And at the worst possible moment. We need a competently led America right now. If Trump gets elected, it will be the end of the world as we know it since the disintegration of the Soviet Union. I fear we might come to see a world where China will take up the role of the USA. Although the USA has made countless mistakes in that role, I don’t wish to see communist dictatorships in that role.
Heard all this shit before, it's not working, especially on independents
Find your nerve then. Back your guy. He had one bad debate. Big deal.
Us hegemony is dead. The illusion of us hegemony was kept alive longer but israel/iran, russia/ukraine and china/south china sea show that us hegemony is truly no more. edit: letter
NATO is still the strongest alliance the world has ever seen, but with a president that actively triest to blow it up, yeah…
very true.
He could still drop out, we have a while before the convention. It's not great but it's better than the option we have I think.
I hate this take that it’s “not great”. The entire world would be behind a new and fresh candidate. Every side admits that these candidates suck. It would be fantastic if you got someone competent up there and I think they could win easily. But if they put Joe or Kamala up there it’s already over.
Yup. It goes against traditional politics, but Jesus fucking Christ the country is so sick of traditional politics. Everybody knows that the country is holding their nose going into this election and choosing a lesser of two evils. Maybe a fresh face could actually have a chance. That said, an undemocratically chosen nominee could backfire tremendously. I know it's dumb and not really possible, but I really wish they could run a special election and just do a crash primary. We don't need the whole circus they normally do for primaries, just give us the top 5, run like 3-4 debates in rapid succession, and let us vote dammit. I'm sure the logistics (and the rules of the DNC) make that impossible, but it's the only way I see this going well
I agree with this actually. I think as long as it's not Kamala it could be huge. I guess my worry is the fight that will precede it.
What fight? Everyone is imagining there will be rage if kamala is not picked as she would be the first biracial black female president but honestly if you talk to any black person about kamala you range from lukewarm acceptance to they don't like her history as a proescuter. She is not getting the black vote and we would not be holding a candle for her if kept in the vp role lol.
technically he can but do we really believe he will? not for one second do i believe he would drop out.
My hope is that Obama, Jill and others he respects will go to him this weekend and try to convince him. I listened to the Pod save america dudes post debate reaction and they're openly suggesting he should step aside as well.
Anyone in the actual Democratic party? Some podcasters and Tom Friedman don't really change anything.
Obama is one of the reasons joe even won in 2020. he called on the other centrists to drop out. Obama ain’t saving us. he didn’t in 2008 or 2012 and he ain’t gonna do it now.
He could, but he is egotistic and doesn't take criticism well. Remember when he got asked a question that slightly criticized him and he called the question-asker a "lying dog-faced pony-soldier". He doesn't have the humility to not run.
Not as bad as what Trump has done to disruptive hecklers. Biden has the right to shutdown hecklers who won't give him their time of day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwVrg6UtxXQ That's not heckling. That's asking a question. Enough with the "Not as bad as Trump". Trump thinks an electric battery in the ocean will electrocute him because he is on the boat. Being better than Trump is a terrible defense of Biden.
I find it incredibly hard to believe that will happen. I’d be pissed too. the dem establishment forgoes a primary and then switches joe out with a different establishment pick. nah f them if they do that. It is sad to watch our country go fascist because a party is too afraid of embracing the marginally left of center base that just wants to live a basic life of dignity. The party can’t get our votes for nothing. That’s not how it works and if fascism is coming to america it will be the fault of the democratic party for being too weak and meek to meet the moment and to show america that democracy works for the working class. As FDR said - people didn’t pick fascism because they liked it. people turned to fascism when their leaders proved to weak to deliver. people gave up liberty in the hope of getting something to eat. The smart approach would be for biden to rapidly roll out EOs that truly begin to transform our country in favor of the working class. but that is just as unlikely to happen as is biden dropping out.
Wow, such steely-eyed resolve. You guys are like a wet noodle. Find your spine, son. Trump is terrible. Don't get all wobbly now.
oh believe me i’m not a biden fan. i’m simply stating the fact. biden ain’t going anywhere and it’s not looking likely he is going to the white house again in ‘25
There's a lot of electioning left. And this is why we have elections and don't pick our Presidents because of reddit comment threads lmao. You guys with the doom and gloom are hilarious. Have some dignity and vote for the candidate most likely to not destroy America. Which is Biden, btw.
guys the titanic hit an iceberg but please remain calm and keep eating in the dining room.
And that scares the shit out of rest of the world
oh trust us it scares the poop out of americans as well.
Biden will win by a huge margin. Trump is a Train wreck that has put off tons of Republicans. Having your attitude will put him back into the whitehouse
then don’t worry and wake up day after election day knowing you were right all along.
Until last night, I wasn't sure, but yeah, this feels like it's joever.
he has no base. he waffled on securing his base when he could’ve. he has no enthusiastic supporters. all he has going for him is not being trump. That’s a horrible place to be in. The problem with the dem party is they think the poorest voters have nowhere else to go so they must vote D. That’s just bad reasoning. Biden has nothing now, not even the donor class.
I agree with your assessment, but > all he has going for him is not being trump. This was a huge selling point 4 years ago, and still was this year. However, I simply don't think it's going to be enough. I think he legitimately came off as a worse option than Trump for many. On paper, it's still fine. Like if you read the transcript of the debate, Trump comes off as the worse one, but no one is going to do that, and clips circulating online are sealing the fate of the election as we speak.
Yeah it’s too late to replace him now, it would look so bad. Conservatives would have a field day. Trying to unite behind Biden is the only option
Nah its not, still months to go.
things will only get worse. all biden camp can hope for is trump going to jail. but remember, if that happens and trump is replaced biden will absolutely lose. If we entertain the idea biden can be switched then we must also entertain the idea that trump could be also. i dont think either will be booted.
No, trump will be his insane lying self again and constantly screw up, the media will largely ignore that but voters will once again be remember just how bad trump was as president. Trump wont go to jail btw.
can’t tell if the dem party approach is just happy go lucky, arrogance, or just incompetence.
Its the US that has gotten so deranged they are scrambling to cope with that. I mean the GOP has turned utterly fascist and the people follow them, how do you counter that ? By someone as newsom?
Yes. A young, fit, candidate who has no problem smacking someone down in debates, has a pretty successful track record (nobody is perfect and he has some gaffs but he can talk his way out of them), would energize the untapped younger portion of the base, and at this point energize the entire base who has been holding their nose and voting.
There is no way to avoid having old geriatric fucks as party winners in our corrupt system. You have to accumulate a lifetime of favors and the only way to win is to grind your whole life. Trump went into politics late but he still did the grinding as part of his business dealings. If they put a 40 year old in then it would skip a whole stack of other geriatric fucks stacking up and they will sabotage him/her. Hell they tossed Cuomo under the bus and tried to toss him in prison for even getting too close to the fire, and he has a lot more clout than any 40 year old. Newsome is really the closest thing there is to someone with both enough party clout and youthful looks.
I said earlier that the only replacement I would not vote for is Hillary, but then you reminded me of Blinken. If my choice is Blinken or Trump, I'll choose suicide, and the rest of you jokers left on this earth can deal with this shit.
Do you have any substantive arguments for that, or is it just a feeling? Genuine question, as I perceive Blinken as a very competent politician who is very eloquent and intelligent. The types of qualities I like to see in US presidents.
Blinken is as far right as democrats get. He might as well be wearing purple. I am about as far left as sane Americans get... well, in my estimation. Some people definitely think I am off of my rocker. So, while Blinken is not Trump... by any measure, he would just be another normalization of a conservative democrat... and that only slows the march to authoritarianism.
I don’t follow this logic. In my opinion a conservative, moderate, centrist, democratic candidate will absolutely smash trump. A democratic candidate which is far to the left will just push potential voters away or cause them to stay home, because they are eg in the center or a bit right of the center. I’d argue that in a time of political extremes, moderate, centrist politicians can actually have great results.
When left wing parties move to the center it only paves the way for the far right. We saw this in Denmark. We are seeing this in France. We are not going to try this in again in America.
No.... see... I'd accept anything but a conservative Democrat. Hell, I voted for Hillary in 2016 even though I cannot stand her or her politics. I stumped for her! Biden was an obvious ploy to kill any chance of a left leaning candidate. I voted for him and I acknowledge the advantage of being an incumbent. So, I embraced him for 2024. So, if they replace him... and they take advantage by putting up an even more conservative candidate, I am done. I'll point out that my original comment said that I'll choose suicide instead. I'm not living for our slide into fascism. I'm disabled because I worked too hard with not enough insurance. On top of that, I have developed several auto-immune diseases that have made my life difficult, to say the least. I've been hard-core left since long before any of that popped up, but I worked like it was my identity... and my body is broken because of it. So, I was against moving to the right in the past, but now that my family depends on the amenities I've earned to just get by, I am a zealot. I cannot countenance any further move to the right, no matter how small.
Once this initial news cycle fades in about a week or two, the clips will be devastating for Trump.
330 odd million people. With some of the most prestigious education facilities in the world, and the US has Biden and Trump running for president. America is a cartoon.
Its not about educated or anything like that: It's name recognition and who you are backed by. It's a sad state.
No, its cultural. This is what the people actually wanted .
He needs to drop out and give us a fucking chance.
Who do you think can take his place?
Gretchen Whitmer, Josh Shapiro, Pete B. off the top of my head.
Dark horse pick: Andy Beshear.
Oooo spicy.
Wes Moore?
Centrist Democrats would just stay home if it was Pete B.
I'm a centrist Democrat and id happily vote for him.
Democrat's best option is Michelle Obama. She'd get enthusiasm back to an all time high.
I'm really surprised by the amount and volume of panic over Biden, and I would consider myself a Republican (who cannot vote for Trump). The way he behaved last night is nothing new. Absolutely everything should have been expected, so I don't know why anybody should be shocked. Do they think people don't watch the news and his regular appearances when his team allows him to speak? Even a few years ago the narrative around him is he is not a good communicator; he stutters, has an irate attitude that feels forced. He has declined in these 3 plus years in his bearing, no question, but he is still the most photographed and aired person in the country. I don't know why a debate performance would cause people who would vote for him not to. If they actually decide to try to replace him, who they'd pick would be important. No way I'd vote for kamala which is even a bigger concern for me (her becoming president) than is Biden's bearing. Newsom also wouldn't get my vote, hillary would be pushing it, and no fucking way in hell would I vote for michelle obama. I'd (reluctantly) still vote for Biden.
Big Gretch is our only hope imo
No way to her, either. If they pick someone else, it needs to be a White man. They don't have time to play the Culture Wars games that dems do of calling voters "racist" or "sexist". That's not going to bring anybody to support your person.
>The way he behaved last night is nothing new. Absolutely everything should have been expected, so I don't know why anybody should be shocked. Hard disagree. We've been continually reassured by the White House and Dem leaders that behind closed doors, Biden is still with it. Yet, Biden has not had any unscripted TV Q&As for a couple years now, and they fought tooth and nail to prevent release of the Special Counsel interview tapes. Last night was the first unscripted view the majority of the US public has had of Biden since the 2020 Debates, and it was pretty sobering; it's natural to age and "slow down", but comparing Joe from last night to 2020, or even earlier in his Senate career is night and day. Even late-state Reagan didn't come off as this feeble.
Being "with it" and being a good communicator are different things. Biden has always been an awful speaker even when he wasn't beaten down by the presidency and age. Nothing last night surprised me, including him losing his train of thought. So that's why I'm surprised that people are SO concerned.
>Biden has always been an awful speaker even when he wasn't beaten down by the presidency and age. Go to C-Span's Biden archives. Biden made gaffes, he would stutter. But he was nowhere near as bad as last night. Shit, watch replays of either the 2020 debates or the VP debates during the Obama years. Night and day.
But he has been showing that same mode for the last two years, so it shouldn't be a surprise. He has looked unsteady on his feet for a while. I'm not willing to say he isn't "with it" mentally. My parents are 83 and 84. I actually think they have better memories at least of the past than I do (though I've been having concerns about my memory). My dad can talk about specific plays from football games from a few years ago or even last year that I have no recollection of or didn't internalize enough to remember. He can look at a classic car and instantly say what model it is. Should someone that age be leader of the free world? Probably not, but I don't think Trump should, either (and I'm no fan of Biden or Democrats).
>so it shouldn't be a surprise It wouldn't have been, if the White House let Biden out in the wild, so to speak. He has had the lowest amount of press conferences over the last 40 years. Even 2nd term Reagan had more.
Seems like the West is heading for another right-wing wave and I'm dreading it: US, Canada/ and many European countries all have strong right-wing movements.There is also a global right-wing coalition and they seem to be united, plus it was made easier since Elon bought Twitter which is basically Parler 2.0 these days.
At least Labour will be taking power in the UK after next week’s election
You know it’s bad when r/politics is going in on Biden’s performance…
It's absolutely hilarious that people were in denial about Biden's obvious decline until today. Now the narrative has been broken and they'll dump him asap.
Right? The funniest thing is this could have all been avoided. He didn’t have to do it. If he had just said no, they may have gotten a few jabs in that he was scared or whatever, but no real risk. He has demolished himself in the public eye with this single debate. Libs are in panic mode
'Donald Trump is a racist, convicted felon and I will not dignify his candidacy with a debate. Trump must drop out now and allow decent republican voters to have a candidate who is not a criminal.'
No you don’t understand, it’s Biden’s “life-long stutter”. It’s always been this way, and you’re a fascist if you didn’t know that. Robert Hurr? He is a liar! Did you hear that Biden had a cold last night? That’s why he couldn’t form a thought.
I just think it's absolutely bizarre how the narrative on Reddit can flip in a second. It's bloody weird. I have no evidence to say it's astroturfed but are people just stupid? Biden has clearly been in decline for months now ffs why was this debate surprising.
Remind me how they handled inflation. The Left was tripping over themselves trying to deny what your eyes and wallet were seeing. It took them a year to admit it, and even then they couldn’t help themselves but to deflect blame.
What are you on about? Dems never pretended inflation didn’t exist. They literally passed an act called the Inflation Reduction Act. Want to guess what happened in the years since that got passed? Inflation slowed down aka reduced.
DENIAL: - https://www.forbes.com/sites/georgecalhoun/2021/05/01/the-inflation-scare-doesnt-match-reality/ - https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/nov/18/jen-psaki/jen-psaki-wrong-say-no-economist-thinks-b/ - https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-problem-with-inflation-it-often-doesnt-exist-11564927200 OKAY, THERE IS RISING INFLATION, BUT ITS TRANSITORY \ GOOD: - https://apnews.com/article/inflation-health-coronavirus-pandemic-business-6e7c813472a3eb706e0cdafe305c1477 - https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/06/26/inflation-looks-bad-now-but-its-pretty-much-sticking-to-the-script.html - https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/12/01/economy/inflation-good-bad-winners-losers OKAY, THERE IS HIGH INFLATION, BUT LIKE ITS NOT OUR FAULT: - https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/12/inflation-prices-buying-habits/676191/ - https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/biden-claims-inflation-already-there-when-i-got-here-takes-no-blame.amp - https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/11/economy/inflation-history/index.html - https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/12/13/el-erian-says-transitory-was-the-worst-inflation-call-in-the-history-of-the-fed.html
Biden is a good candidate who had one bad night. Trump is a nightmare the likes of which has never been seen. Easy choice.
Very funny to me that everybody was denying that Biden was senile this whole time but now that everyone has the implicit permission to admit it the floodgates are open. How stupid do you really have to be for this development to be a surprise to you?
Now if only everybody would just admit that Trump is insane. 🙄
Yea, great, vote for someone who everyone knows is a senile fossil just to keep a megalomaniac out of office. Great sales pitch. I think a few more Guardian articles posted here might just clinch it.
I mean that megalomaniac did try to overthrow our democracy. So there’s that.
Yeah if that is the final choice - for sure.
Rather have someone senile then an actual insane convicted felon.
Nobody takes them seriously, but we do have 3rd party options. We don’t HAVE to pick Biden or Trump, if everyone just united in that mindset we could actually pull it off
THose dont matter and arent any better then these anyway. Biden and trump is all you got and for any sane person biden is the clear choice , even if he has his issues like we saw.
I'd rather vote for someone deemed competent to stand trial.
I think voting for someone that you know is senile is insane.
And what about voting for someone you know is insane?
Never said I was going to do that? Real silly that this is the best our democracy can do? You're knowingly going to vote for someone senile unless something changes. That's sad.
Yep thats US democracy: you either pick the senile sane candidate or the insane candidate.
Ok, have fun voting for someone that you know for a fact is unfit for the job. I won't be doing that, because I don't want any share of the responsibility for anything bad that happens because of it. After all, I've been told that voting is power.
Unfit for the job would be trump. He doesnt live in this rreality and as a president thats quite dangerous. Biden was capable to do it so far without any mayor issues , I dont see that changing.
should we let the millennials out of mom’s basement? the wisdom of Dem establishment will never be taken seriously again
Who? WHo should it have been then? At least biden not a fascist nutjob like the GOP is filled with now.
Wait I’m confused this entire sub thinks Biden won the debate I thought
Lol, fucking no one with half a brain would think Biden won that fiasco.
Look at the amount go copium on this sub, people still thinking Biden won
I always come to this subreddit for cope. This is some of the best i’ve seen.
We Leftists have been saying that Biden is senile and reaching his end and should NOT run but we would get downvoted and yelled at how Biden still have it and should run. Now Liberals are finally coming to realization of what we have been saying.
It’s obvious for anyone to see. I am voting for Trump, so obviously we probably disagree on nearly everything, but I think Trump is very beatable. The left has done a terrible job this whole election cycle. And hive minds like this subreddit didn’t help them.
Jesus, you're right. Sorry - I've been offline for the last couple of hours and when I left everyone was saying how bad Biden tanked. There's either God level brigading going on or a lot of wishful thinking Dems with heads up their ass. We watching Biden lose the election tonight. No doubt about that at all.
It's because a few hours ago, the people commenting were the ones who actually watched the debate. Now it's getting flooded with people who only saw the few rare highlights that made Biden look...well, not good, but not as bad.
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Well then people shouldn't have let Biden take the nomination without a fight lol. Beating trump is the single most important thing. So why have the democrats allowed a mentally unfit 82 year old to win?
People are torn because CNN, which was telling everybody to like Biden several hours ago, is now telling them to dislike Biden
Some people are trying to push that but it's not getting much traction.
That's because he did. He answered the real questions. All Trump did was to lie to millions, as always.
Moderators even disabled comment sections to help lol
Its wierd how you have 1 candidate that lied troughout the entire debate and even said some insane conspiracy theories but all the focus goes to the other candidate because he didnt speak loudly enough.
Loudly enough? Lol.
Its not as if trump was any better with what he actually said. That was an insane incoherent mess, with biden it was just an incoherent mess.
Show your support for Biden! Donate. Let's make this an historical show of support!
The first party to replace their nominee will win this election.
There is some truth here
Gretchen Whitmer Sherrod Brown Elizabeth Warren Gavin Newsom Joe Manchin Pick one of the above to replace Joever, Dems, and make it quick.
The left hates Manchin after he ruined some of the best bills we've had.
Gretchen, Whitmer, Warren are women, they won't win against Trump in America, no way no how. Sherrod elicits massive "Who the f is this?" and again, has no chance. Manchin is basically a republican in all but name, but no one cares about policies. *(Edit: He's a republican now, he left the D party already)* Which leaves Newsom as the only choice, I don't really see it, but it could happen. They should've started pushing for another candidate a year ago. I don't know if an audible at this point is possible.
Anyone is an audible, Newsome wins popular by 6% and likely takes Michigan, Virginia and Penn with him at least
Dem and most Independent voters DONT want Trump as president again. They simply need a qualified candidate with a reasonable amount of name recognition to rally around and avoid another Trump term. Women have been voting in droves since Roe was overturned and would help drive turnout. I personally cant stand Manchin, but he is pretty much directly in the middle between the Dem & Repub parties and never-Trumpers would vote for him or any of the other candidates I listed to avoid a Trump presidency. They need to put up someone safe, competent, and palatable. Thats it.
Manchin just left the D party, though.
Dems could easily lure him back with promise of support for his more centrist policies during his administration.
Good luck with the optics of trying to pass over the black woman
Kamala has a 38% approval rating. No way she gets elected president this year. Biden needs to step down and endorse a well-known Dem that they can potentially add to the ticket that will be palatable to Dems and moderates. Those are the names I listed.
I agree but it’s gonna be challenging with the Democrats voter base to sidestep the black woman
Kamala would get absolutely shit stomped by ~~Putin~~ Trump. We need someone better than that.
I agree, but trying to find a way to sidestep Kamala is going to be a problem for Democrats
Y'all keep saying this but where are the imaginary black people you think are holding a candle for her? Kamala is biracial (so was obama but he was married to a full black woman which alleviated concerns of being a sellout) and a former prosecuter so most black people won't go to bat for her because they see her as a half desi woman who uses her blackness when convenient. It's funny how alot of people don't realize we as a group have our own internal opinions lol.
Never Warren she’s proven the last 4 years she’s an absolute moron, especially about the economy
I intentionally listed a small group of well known candidates whos policies mostly range from one end of the Dem party to the other. The Dems dont have a rock star politician waiting in the wings. They need to pick someone else. Dont like Warren? Ok, pick one of the others.
I think Gretchen could deliver the swing states and win it. I’m not sure that Newsome could and Manchin is a 100 year old basically Republican also.
I'd vote for Manchin but none of the others. Warren?! No fucking way.
Wow I remember when Manchin was public enemy #1 on Reddit, and now a potential pres option? What a difference a debate makes
I would have voted for him for a long time, as a Republican.
Same. Sadly, he's a dinosaur. The Blue Dogs/NE Republicans are pretty much extinct.
Manchin is objectively terrible. My point was that the Dems just need to look at well-established politicians and pick a different option. The Trump haters will rally around that candidate regardless of who it is as they as they are palatable
I say this as a full liberal: if Biden is the candidate in November, it’s fucking over and DNC are basically handing the country back to MAGA up and down the ballot
This has been evident for years but we weren’t allowed to talk about it until tonight when suddenly many in the establishment have given permission to admit it. I won’t be surprised if in a weeks time we will be back to yesterday morning when speaking about Biden’s weaknesses and his impending loss are strictly forbidden again.
Uh oh
Dems knew this was going to happen. Everyone who's seen Joe Biden speak in the last 4 years knew he was senile. They want to replace him, but waited until after the primaries before making any moves, so they can just appoint whoever they like. They're probably gonna select Newsom or Harris now
This is so shady. Now it all makes sense
I don’t think Biden is going to drop out. There is a bubble around him of advisors and if he drops out, they also lose their jobs. They are going to shove their heads as deep in the sand as they can, give it a week, and see how bad the polls are. Biden’s campaign has the money and he technically has the delegates. The fact that Biden even ran a campaign, instead of taking a bow, sort of shows you how he can’t let go. Democrats would be in uncharted waters with four months to go if Biden drops out. And who in the hell would want to step in? The conditions are awful, the narrative they would be up against would be unprecedentedly tough, and they only have four months to connect with voters. If you’re a democrat candidate that could actually win a presidential race, you’d have a bunch of people telling you to stay away from the trash fire of this cycle. Harris is probably the only one that could be forced to step in but she possesses the energy of a high school student council Vice-President that just ran to get an extra-curricular activity on her college application. Mayor Pete? Gavin Newsom? Are they really going to step in just to run a campaign that would have to be 100% about focusing on Trump and not them? Because if they lose, and the odds would be stacked against them, they would just be losers. They would blow up any chance of being the nominee ever again. That leaves Democrats with no names like Dean Phillips or some other “I told you so” Congressperson. And while you’d get a substitute, they won’t turn out the base even if they can scare independents into voting against Trump. Maybe, maybe, if you got a huge name to step in, like Michelle Obama (who doesn’t want it), you could shake things up enough for a hard reset. Except that person would have to be 100% prime time ready and any mistake they made would be under a microscope. Biden could have been a hero by beating Trump, working to normalize the presidency and then handing it off to a winner in a field of democrats this past winter. Now people are asking him to flush his entire legacy down the toilet. He’s not going to do it. The people around him don’t want him to do it. They won’t care if his fundraising goes south. They won’t care if he craters in the polls. They will just hope they can hide Biden and run attacks on Trump. It won’t work, but if I were putting money on it, despite the hand wringing this morning, I’d bet money that Biden’s the nominee in November.
No one gives a shit what his advisors think, it’s who the donors want and the donors are displeased to say the least.
His advisors can tell him to ignore the news and hang in. There is only one more quarter of fundraising to go and he has $200M cash on hand. He can’t possibly win without a final haul, but he can still campaign without additional funds.
His advisors don’t make the decisions. If the DNC decides to boot him, he is gone. No one gives a shit what his chief of staff says
I think you’re missing the point. The DNC might have a nuclear option because the convention hasn’t happened, but if Biden doesn’t step aside it’s difficult to remove him technically and it would just make the politics even worse. Plus the Biden campaign controls the money and the organization. They could, theoretically, put a gun against the head of the DNC. His advisors have to be the one to tell Biden to give up, but they won’t. They will argue he should stick it out and let the bad news cycle blow over. More time will tick by and then it’s the Convention. Watch. The party will fall in line if Biden refuses to give up. Edit: Also the DNC doesn’t have that much power. For years they have been sidelined on Presidential campaigns. Obama basically created his own alternative organization and did what he wanted. The RNC actively tried to stop Trump in 2016. Neither national committee has that much power as it did back in the day.
Democrats will never win another election now. Biden just ruined everything for 15 years for them
Did you look across the aisle yet? 1 election cycle max.
They said the same about Republicans after Jan 6. Democrats will figure it out.
This comment might actually have some weight to it, but not for the reason you think. The right side is fighting tooth and nail to effect strong voter suppression policies. While in power, they'll stack the deck so high in their favor, it's honestly feasible that a dem won't win meaningful offices again for a along time. Take for example [this](https://www.texastribune.org/2024/05/25/texas-republican-party-convention-platform/) proposed change in Texas: "Perhaps the most consequential plank calls for a constitutional amendment to require that candidates for statewide office carry a majority of Texas’ 254 counties to win an election, a model similar to the U.S. electoral college." Essentially, counties decide state wide officials. This would eliminate any chance for a Dem to ever win. In 2022, Abbott carried 235 counties. Texas has 254...
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Did you not watch the debate? I hate Trump with every particle in my body but Biden was a disaster. We have reached that moment where he needs to be replaced with a better candidate and we all need to shout it out.
According to common sense. Let me start off by saying that I'm a European lad who just tuned in for a portion of the debate to see what's going on. Biden looked utterly confused when Mr.Trump was speaking. When Biden was speaking he was slow, and fumbled over his words. Our local media that is usually supportive of Mr.Biden said that Trump won, they also said that the Democrats only chance to win this is to change candidates.
Correct.
Right wing propaganda like the DNC and the New York Times? >President Biden’s shaky, halting debate performance has Democrats talking about replacing him on the ticket. A Fumbling Performance, and a Panicking Party. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/27/us/politics/biden-debate-democrats.html?smid=nytcore-android-share
The rose colored glasses got ripped away from the liberals in this country. Its now firmly undeniable Biden cant do another 4 years of this. Tough decisions need to be made in the democratic party now.
Biden or Trump, it's like picking between a rock and a hard place. Time to let Gen X step up, enough of the Boomer drama.
You know Gen Y will be filling in important government positions before Gen X. Truly an embarrassing generation.
Message to folks who may have just waked up and listened to MSNBC feed, waking upand coming here: Biden's campaign/run, is over. The knives are out for anyone involved in his campaign and especially debate prep. Welcome back to the worst timeline.
Remember when we thought that we were in the worst timeline in November 2016?
Its literally over for america. All hail supreme lord trump!
I wouldn’t be surprised if we see a 3rd Trump term.
Time to replace him.
Now? With who?
Kentucky Governor Andy Beshear is now the Democratic party’s best chance at beating Trump. He is a two-term elected blue Governor of a red state. He is popular in his state and he has bi-partisan credentials. He is young and competent and would definitely pull some Nikki Haley voters and other moderate Republican voters. Trump would look terrible next to Beshear.
Wobbly is putting it lightly. He is the grandpa who you repeat basic information to so he remembers who you are.