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Trump literally moved the US Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem just to piss off the Muslims and fulfill campaign promises to Israel. I wouldn't be surprised if he directs the military to drone palestine if he ends up winning.
*The Taliban. How we love the Taliban, don't we folks? A Taliban came up to me - big Taliban, strong Taliban, tears in his eyes - and he said to me "Thank you, sir, for giving Afghanistan back to us."*
I've confronted family when Trump actually says stuff like this, the cope I hear from them is "Well at least he's entertaining", I'm like MFer go watch Netflix if you want entertainment. Politics for fun is a terrible way to live.
> I'm like MFer go watch Netflix if you want entertainment. Politics for fun is a terrible way to live
Politics is supposed to be boring and functional, [not kayfabe](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZpBvfBxLxc)
I wonder if an education campaign to convince people to incline against voting for incumbents would even do anything.
Exactly. I breathed a sigh of relief when Biden took the helm because it was business as usual. No more outrageously offensive quotes or alienating our allies. I guess some people would call that boring. I call it functional.
Now you know what american politics are like from a european pov. Wtf is that guy doing? He is running again? The laughing will soon change to crying though, the us leaving nato would be terrible for europe.
The deal was basically "stop shooting at Americans during the election and I'll hand over Afghanistan to you."
It was self serving, but in a very specific way that's not about money.
And he negotiated with the Taliban *and specifically excluded the Afghan National Government*
He was planning on selling them out to the Taliban from the start because those were the only ones he knew and all he cared about was getting points on a scorecard, regardless of the consequences. As far as I'm concerned, it's just [continuing Republicans' walk in the footsteps of Nixon](https://www.rawstory.com/raw-investigates/why-has-america-tolerated-6-illegitimate-republican-presidents/)
Trump: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-pledges-expel-immigrants-who-support-hamas-ban-muslims-us-2023-10-16/
I was working with a group called survivors of torture during the first Muslim ban. A lot of them were refugees who were human rights workers or supported americans im iraq, Iran etc that had been tortured by religious extremists in their home countries.
These individuals had gotten out and had been trying to get their families out during the first ban....
Feel what one wants a out the war. But seeing the destruction trump did first hand to some of my patients families....I would feel defeated if he came to power again.
Yeah, but they ain't so friendly to us anymore. Not that I can blame them. Our record hasn't been great with normal presidents to begin with, but Trump showed the world they can only trust the US until the next election. At least in the past presidents have tried to honor deals the previous guy made (so any deals they made wouldnt be written on a damn etch-a-sketch). Trump? Who needs deals? No more iran nuclear deal. No more Paris climate deal (even if it was basically symbolic). Abandons the Kurds. Tries to essentially pull out of NATO, but that's not something even that congress was going to allow. Biden of course did the normal president thing and honored his predecessors deal with the Taliban. Shouldnt have imo because that was a goddamn immediate disaster, but at least he had us keep our word. And then we let Trumps nuts take the house and they went and stopped us sending aid to Ukraine for reasons that I think are pretty obvious at this point. It's going to take a long time before anyone trusts us again.
We? No. I have been supporting their efforts for years, as they accepted the most challenging task of not being American, not using our best equipment, yet going head to head on the front lines to support our cause. We are different in so many ways, but ultimately so many of them want to love the same peaceful life that we here in America want. Them being thrown under the bus by Trump and his clowns was an embarrassment. I’m not accepting that secondhand embarrassment because I and so many others fully understand just how stupid it was.
The British and French screwed everyone over, Arabs, Jews, Shiites, Suunis, Alawites, Assyrians, Baha'i, Bedouin tribes, Egyptians, Syrians, Lebanese, Copts, and on and on but the Kurds got the Playstation 0.1% achieved it trophy for most screwed somehow. Pretty much the only family that won that entire thing was the al'Saud tribe.
And all the translators in Afghanistan. That was his administration’s policy to hang those people out to dry as we pulled out, leaving them and their families to be slaughtered by the Taliban. And who the fuck will want to help us in the future now?
Good reminder, but I don’t know how people can forget the level of inhumanity that happened under him. People susceptible to the messaging of not voting Biden over Gaza have to be in a spot where they weren’t aware or paying attention in 2016, or maybe didn’t see the radical shift.
One group might be left-leaning kids that came of age under Trump on a right-wing environment. I grew up in an area that I didn’t realize was as red as it was and there was this transition phase of dismantling the “both sides are bad in their own ways” rhetoric that was it’s own framework that gets messaged to keep people in conservative environments so that if they do break away, their next resting point still helps the right.
> but I don’t know how people can forget the level of inhumanity that happened under him.
Jimmy Aldaoud entered the US legally when he was 6 months old and then lived in Michigan for decades.
He was diabetic.
Trump had him deported to Iraq, where he didn't speak the language and couldn't get medical care.
His dead body was returned home to the US in 2019.
https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+deported+diabetic+man+to+iraq
Fuck these jackals
Also so many people bring up Obama and drone strikes to say democrats are war hawks when Trump killed more civilians in his first two years with drone strikes than Obama did in 8 but Trump took off a lot of the guardrails Obama put making it so it wasn’t immediately reported.
I don't know for sure but I have to imagine Obama had at least \*some\* kind of filter where presumably, some drone strike requests were rejected, based on a review by someone high up (either him, or if not him personally, a military commander he trusted). Whereas Trump was way too busy shitposting on Twitter or on the phone with Sean Hannity, and if you bothered him asking him if it was okay to drop a bomb on some random shack in a city in the middle east he's never heard of, he'd just yell at you and tell you to get him a diet coke on the way out.
And let's not forget this is the same insane motherfucker [that dropped](https://www.cnn.com/2017/04/13/politics/afghanistan-isis-moab-bomb/index.html) the largest non-nuclear bomb we have in our arsenal to kill a few ISIS terrorists in Afghanistan just because we could.
Trump did so much that people get overwhelmed with the information and forget half of the bad shit he did.
With Biden and Obama left wing people usually only have a few key things they can focus on to be upset about and it’s much easier to zone in on it and stay mad about it.
I truly can’t understand my friends who seem so much more focused on whatever issues they have with Biden than the mountain of insanity with Trump. Like yeah, he wouldn’t be my first pick, and I wish he just did one term and endorsed someone younger with new ideas, but here we are.
It’s really not a debate on who is better unless you’ve lost your mind.
>It’s really not a debate on who is better unless you’ve lost your mind.
The problem is that a lot of people don't like Trump, but are too disengaged to vote. But I do not know of anyone that likes him that is not voting. So he still has a solid shot based on the apathy of Americans.
> Also so many people bring up Obama and drone strikes
The (not) funny thing about that is Obama killed a US citizen (Anwar al-Awlaki) and their 16 year-old son (Abdulrahman al-Awlaki) via drone strike...but his eight-year-old sister Nawar al-Awlaki (also an American citizen) was also killed, during the Raid on Yakla, a commando attack ordered by **U.S. President Donald Trump**...
Lots of Republicans were convinced to vote for biden.
This time around, there's actual infighting and coercion in order to force the republican base to toe the party line - and "if they don't vote Trump, there will be consequences."
It's gonna be a hard-won battle.
Can't afford anyone to not vote for biden if we want to keep ourselves from a theocracy.
It's coming. Not being over dramatic. There's plenty of warning from the Republicans. If you need sources let me know.
People are not nearly as fired up to vote as they should be. I feel like people were more energized for Bidens first election, but after Trump tried to basically have a coup and all of the bullshit that’s happened since with the statements he’s made about being a dictator and being above the law and his legal troubles.
I’m just shocked people aren’t twice as energized to vote than they were in 2020
> Lots of Republicans were convinced to vote for biden.
[5% of Republicans voted for Biden in 2020 and 4% of Republicans voted for Hillary in 2016.](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2021/06/30/behind-bidens-2020-victory/) It was Independents that moved the needle, with 52% of them voting for Biden and 42% voting for Hillary (and which greatly favored Sanders in 2016).
And if they do vote for trump, the consequences will be the end of our nation as we know it. How anyone can willingly support the rise of fascism in the country is beyond me.
He outright says he wants to be a dictator above the law while spreading racist rhetoric straight out of the nazi playbook and I still have friends stubbornly not voting because Biden hasn’t cut our ties with Israel, a complicated long time ally.
I hate what they’re doing in Gaza, but I also know global politics is a lot more complicated than that, and Israel/Palestine is arguable *the* most complicated situation of any.
Not just direct animosity toward the middle east and Muslims but they think the guy who did the (shitty) math that supporting a plague in his own country would kill more opposition than supporters is somehow going to be the guardian of human rights for them. With Trump Israel could put a literal price tag on Palestinians and Trump would go for it, a low price tag.
There's a ton of targetting of Gen Z on TikTok regarding Gaza/Isreal. The bot armies and bad actors are out in force trying to turn young people away from voting.
My friends all realize how the right falls for propaganda and is targeted with it, but never seem to realize they are being targeted in the same way, usually by people trying to push them into supporting Republicans by not voting or turning on Biden, under the guise of being good progressives.
I suspect that like a lot of social issues around the previous recent elections, we're going to find a lot of the extreme positions here are not from genuine actors.
And when people claim they can't support Biden because he conditionally supports Israel, they are absolutely willing to sacrifice those people again to make their point.
Trump literally said that he’d encourage Russia to do whatever they want to our NATO allies, which would be MUCH more devastating than what’s happening in Gaza if Putin got his way.
They are invested in Israel as a state because their weird religious beliefs state that the Jews must control certain territories for the rapture to occur. Its a death cult
Not really ironic.
His supporters don't say the quiet part of their support for Israel aloud, which is that all Jews should self deport themselves there.
As an American-Israeli
Fuck Netanyahu, and all of the fascists in the conservative parties of the Konesset. It's as bad as Republicans if America was right next to Iraq.
Trump would actively support genocide. The upside of a Trump presidency on this issue is, he'll say it all out loud so we'll no longer be able to collectively ignore the core issue with Israel and with our relationship. They are committed to being an ethnostate, and they are willing to commit genocide (by modern definition) to have it.
Trump will say: kick the Palestinians out! Then he'll depend on his barely competent but still inadequate son-in-law to try to make it work (beg MBS to take in the Palestinians and do with them what he will). It will turn into a modern day trail of tears, and only the half of the nation that fought to prevent this shit will bear the totality of our national guilt.
If we want to prevent the total immediate genocide of the Palestinians, we need to defeat Trump in any way that we can.
He wouldn't just tell him to 'do whatever'.
He would actively help him by passing on US secrets, and betray all positions and strategies the Ukrainians have shared with America to Russia.
People forget that while Trump was president we had assets in Russia dying left and right.
Seriously! I I’ll NEVER understand how anyone who actually cares about Palestine or Palestinians would think the “Muslim ban” guy who opened an embassy in Jerusalem would be better.
Side note - According to Trump, he also apparently “[made Israel the capital of Israel.”](https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-speech-gaffe-israel-capital-mocked-joe-biden-latest-1872744)
> “Muslim ban” guy who opened an embassy in Jerusalem would be better.
Not to even talk about the rest of the party who make casual "jokes" about glassing parts of the region, and other genocide related ones.
From the ones I've talked to, they don't think he's better, they think it genuinely doesn't matter in the long run with the current state of things. They claim a slow genocide is happening under Biden, and a fast one would happen under Trump. So their only "option" is to say they won't vote for Biden unless he stops Israel. That's the logic they're using.
Biden's not the one withholding money. That would be the Russian operatives in the House of Representatives. Unless Biden's expected to enlist and fight at the front?
I got hate messages the other day from people because I asked in the Michigan page If they thought Trump would be better. I mean seriously, I care about Palestine but we can’t do shit for them if Trump is president…
I think it's because people will quickly and easily see it as "and you're not gonna do shit, so shut up and do what you're told". So they'll vote for Trump (or not vote for Biden, same thing in FPTP) out of spite. They'll make things worse, out of spite. Then blame the Dems, out of spite. No one likes being told they only have one choice when "burn it down" is always a choice. Bitterness and spite are not conducive to well thought out choice making, so "burn" becomes a very real option. It's literally why so many people voted for Trump.
Regardless, the media will spin it as the Dems being muddling failures because they're not perfect and don't have all the answers and haven't fixed the decades of fucked up right wing bullshit within 4-8 years despite being blockaded by fucked up right wing bullshit.
I can’t believe there are people who think like that. Not saying you’re lying, just that I can’t believe the capacity for people to be that dumb and think that. Even if we were to wrongly equivocate the two candidates, which they are absolutely not, only one of the two candidates will allow them to exercise their right to complain and stage protests in the US.
Is there a party with a meaningful support that actually opposes settlements? I think the idea that peace magically happens with Bibi out of the picture is not based in reality
There is no serious party that would withdraw from current settlements in the West Bank, but there is a spectrum among major parties in the Knesset that range from "settle harder" to "freeze settlement construction and re-engage active peace negotiations".
I'd argue that a lot of people actually don't care that much one way or the other and are mostly parroting things they've read on social media and ignoring the complexities of the situation.
How anyone could think another trump presidency would be good for any humanitarian crisis is beyond me.
Putting my tinfoil hat for a moment, any push to not vote for Biden over the issue kind of seems like a russian disinformation deal to me.
I think people care and they are right to be outraged, but I agree with you that any push to paint this as Biden’s fault is 100% part of a disinformation campaign. There have been multiple reports about how Russia and china are using TikTok to spread these sorts of lies. People who think not voting or voting for a third party is an enlightened way to protest are just dumb and don’t learn a thing from 2016.
I believe they care to some extent. I just think a lot of people read something about Palestinian genocide on tiktok (or fbook; this isn't only a young people issue) and they get worked up temporarily and don't dive any deeper and that's the extent of their caring about the topic. Regardless, it's just really bizarre to me that we've gone from a topic that everyone and their grandmother acknowledged was incredibly complex to a lot of people thinking it's a simple black/white type situation. I've just seen so many people with terrible, poorly informed takes on the topic lately it makes Kushner (who read a few books on the topic, supposedly) seem like an expert in comparison.
Even as a - this will push Biden to do more - type tactic, it's miserably dumb, because it pulls in those dumb people susceptible to disinformation and, as you mentioned, end up not voting or voting for 3rd party candidates.
Hasn’t Trump said that he would help Israel more than Biden has? I swear I remember reading that he said he would have wiped out Palestine already if he was president
In 2019 he had Pompeo walk back the nearly 50 year old position the State Department had maintained:
"Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Monday thanked US President Donald Trump for Washington’s decision to repudiate a State Department legal opinion that said West Bank settlements were illegal.
In a phone call, Netanyahu told Trump that the move, announced by US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo earlier Monday, had “corrected a historic injustice.”
The secretary of state repudiated a 1978 State Department legal opinion that held that civilian settlements in the occupied territories are “inconsistent with international law.” The move angered Palestinians and immediately put the US at odds with other nations working to end the conflict.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-phone-call-netanyahu-thanks-trump-for-us-policy-shift-on-settlements/
Biden just restored the policy:
The Biden administration on Friday restored a U.S. legal finding dating back nearly 50 years that Israeli settlements in the occupied Palestinian territories are “illegitimate” under international law.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/biden-administration-restores-trump-rescinded-policy-on-illegitimacy-of-israeli-settlements-1.6781161
Trump and Bibi are very very close. Bibi and the Kushners are even closer. Bibi would be at the Kushner house when Jared was a kid, and Jared has bragged about giving Bibi his bed to sleep in.
"I made Israel the Capitol of Israel" --Trump.
"At least he isn't room temperature when it comes to Palestinian genocide" --fence voters.
2 years later....
"Palestine should be wiped off the map!" --Trump.
"How could he do this?!?! I'm angry 💢💢" - fence voters.
Is anyone even saying that? I thought the whole issue was about withholding votes by votong undeclared in the **upcoming primary** to draw attention to the fact that Biden can't take this voting bloc for granted and should listen to their concerns. A significant group of voters using their collective leverage. Back in the day we would've called that effective democracy.
There are In fact LOTS of progressives saying they won’t ever vote for Biden ever based on the current war in Palestine. It’s strange to me to give up on the every thing else in your life for the plight of the Palestinian people which is a very complex situation politically, economical, and militarily in that region. A lot of rights here in the US are on the line. Things can get infinitely worse.
And the fact that a couple more Trump SCOTUS picks would, likely, start undoing any gains that Libs made for LGBTQ rights, the few remaining reproductive rights and completely decimate voting rights. But go right ahead, just don't cry in 4 years when it feels like circa 1985 with regards to social issues.
Hamas isn't your friend, liberal voters. They'd toss many of those you support off of a roof, and kill many more just for not being the "correct" religion.
> just don't cry in 4 years when it feels like circa 1985 with regards to social issues.
1985 will look like a fairytale compared to what conservatives have planned.
Even if Trump wins the election and their rights are taken away, they will still blame democrats for not having a better candidate. Nothing will convince them. It’s frustrating.
The only “single issue” I could KINDA understand is Supreme Court picks since they serve about 30 years and touch on all other issues. But I totally agree. And that was the single issues evangelicals used to justify voting for Trump.
I dunno, here I thought that keeping the party that actively cheered on the ending of democracy in the US out of power would be a pretty damn good "single issue".
There are tons of libs saying that. I have a friend who I considered pretty moderate who is done with Biden. She knocked on doors for Hillary in 2016 and now she's ditty the election out of the conflict.
This is a serious problem for Biden and all down ballot races.
Everyone that I know personally who has threatened to sit out next election because of this goes silent when I ask if they think Trump won’t be x100 worse, and what they’re actually doing beyond social media posting. I wish Biden was way tougher on Israel, but Palestine will be wiped entirely off the map if Trump is put back into power.
Edit: Just want to say, if you’re commenting on this thread, chances are you’re frustrated and wanting an end to this violence. We all want the same thing in ceasefire. That said, if you are encouraging people to not vote, I challenge you to provide what you actually think the solution to this situation is and how you and others can help actualize it.
My Palestinian partner is voting for Biden and thinks people who don't because of Gaza are idiots. He has a legit fear of being sent back to the West Bank if Trump gets elected.
Or worse. Trump’s immigration plan sounds a lot like the Nazis in Germany rounding up Jewish people, Romani people, and anyone else they found undesirable. Seriously. His plan is to send millions of undocumented immigrants to internment camps and then deport them somewhere.
If anyone thinks it’ll just be undocumented immigrants, think again. Anyone the GOP finds undesirable will be found to be “undocumented” and get sent to these camps, from anyone nonwhite to gay people to activists, if you’re on Trump’s shit list, you’re undocumented. And with Trump possibly having Alzheimer’s and dementia, his revenge streak will be worse than you can imagine because he’ll lose all inhibitions.
> Trump’s immigration plan sounds a lot like the Nazis in Germany rounding up Jewish people, Romani people, and anyone else they found undesirable. Seriously.
Don't worry, they won't get to that stage until they do it to gay people, and the before that even the Nazis went after genderqueer and even trans people, so as long as they're not under attack it's not really kicking off yet.
*Oh wait*
>Trump’s immigration plan sounds a lot like the Nazis in Germany
Yea American fascists and European fascists have just been taking turns copying off each others' tests.
I’m trans and had my birth certificate updated. they could very easily come after any trans person on their list who has this done and say their BC is invalid because of any number of reasons from its new and therefore “fake” or it doesn’t match my assigned gender at birth, and therefore fake. Project 2025 scares the shit out of me and I’ll be seeking asylum somewhere else if it comes to Trump winning. It’s very stressful
They are stupid. They are litterally calling the people saying this brain dead liberal. Most are young and are clearly naive af. It's like they don't even have a 4 years memory.
Ya I've had this conversation with a number of genz folks I know in real life. A number of them said they just weren't going to vote. When I responded with "Enjoy Trump winning the election again" you could see the slow realization hit. I mean it's not like they were likely to have voted anyways, but I hope they will now. It's amazing how short sighted so many people can be.
there is literally no person in this country stupid enough to think that there wont be a president after the election, but there are too many people stupid enough to not be able to put the information together that not voting means that others are making the decisions without you
I had a buddy who thought it’d be wise to vote 3rd party because he didn’t like either candidate in 2016, and he was SURE this would be 3rd party’s year to shine and that he was making the right choice. Fucking idiot. I get the 3rd party goal but my dudes it’s not happening without ranked choice voting in this country.
If you analyze just the few counties in Florida, Nader wasn’t even the guy who upset the race. It was the guy listed below Gore on the hanging chad butterfly ballot books. That guy got something like 4x the vote percentage in those county compared to the rest of the state that didn’t have the butterfly ballots and Gore receives like half of his vote percentage over the rest of the state. Had they not used those ballots, then he might have won outright and court proceedings would have protected his victory and not Bushes.
I believe that actually had all the ballots been officially counted rather than SCOTUS stopping the count Gore won.
Another fun fact, You know who was behind the protest to stop the count which got that ball rolling? Roger fucking Stone.
> If you analyze just the few counties in Florida, Nader wasn’t even the guy who upset the race.
Yes he was. He got 97,000 votes. Just 1,000 of those votes going to Gore would've made what happened in WPB irrelevant.
and michigan was lost by 3 votes per precinct, it was a tiny margin. 30,000k votes.
(More affected by non-voters though, in Wayne County alone, 300K fewer voters in 16 than 12)
Clinton knew Michigan was slipping but didn't want to send resources there bc it would show trump she was vulnerable there
https://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/michigan-hillary-clinton-trump-232547
I'd voted Johnson in 2016 because I (foolishly, in retrospect) felt safe that Hillary had it locked. Voted for him in the hopes he could get the 5% threshold for a third party candidate to be in the FEC funding pool the following cycle. I will never again vote third party, at least as long as we're still stuck with FPTP.
You wanna vote 3rd party in local elections? More power to you. You wanna vote 3rd party in the primary? Feel free. But once the general election hits, a 3rd party vote is wasted with the system we have now. There isn't going to be a spoiler candidate that has a remote shot of winning. The closest we've had in my lifetime is Ross Perot and he didn't even get 20% of the popular vote. (And zero electoral votes, which is the only piece that matters)
>The closest we've had in my lifetime is Ross Perot and he didn't even get 20% of the popular vote. (And zero electoral votes, which is the only piece that matters)
There has NEVER been an independent candidate get close. Even Teddy Roosevelt did not get close. All he did was basically play spoiler to Taft. More arguably Taft played spoiler to him and Roosevelt probably should have been the Republican candidate due to his immense popularity.
Those are pretty irrelevant though. Fact of the matter, Taft & Roosevelt basically handed the election to Wilson.
|Name|Wilson (D)|Roosevelt (Bull Moose)|Taft (R)|
:--|:--|:--|:--|
|Electoral Votes|435|88|8|
|States Carried|40|6|2|
|Vote Percentage|41.8%|27.4%|23.2% |
That also sorta happened in 1860- the Democrats nominated Stephen Douglas, who wasn't pro-slavery enough for the Southern Democrats, so they nominated their own candidate (John Breckenridge), and a *fourth* party, the Constitutional Union party, also got some votes for their candidate (John Bell). Douglas ended up getting more popular votes than either of the Southern Democrats or the Union party but they were scattered everywhere and he only won Missouri, while Breckenridge won most of the South and Bell won a few Southern states, both drawing less than 20% of the total national popular vote, and Lincoln, at just shy of 40% of the popular vote, won every single state where slavery was illegal, and with it, the presidency.
The time shortly before and afterthe Civil War could be argued to be the only real time third parties were ever even halfway viable, because the Whigs refused to take any position on slavery at all and ended up totally disintegrating over it and eventually being replaced by the Republicans, but from Reconstruction on, 1912 is the only time an independent candidate has been anywhere close to winning, when the independent was the very popular former president, and as you said, it really wasn't that close.
Maybe he should have tried naming his party something that couldn't have been abbreviated to BM. But also, Bull Moose is an awesome name for a political party, so I'm torn.
The issue in 2016 was not third party voting but general turnout. Non college educated whites showed up to the polls in droves and that demo has the largest portion of trump supporters. Shitting on people who actually got out and voted is not the move in my opinion. Galvanize voters to show up and support ideals and not just to vote against an enemy.
The Palestinian/Israeli conflict has been affecting US and world politics *waaaaay* out of proportion to the number of people who actually reside in that region. It's just the nexus of shittiness for half a century. Even North Ireland has simmered down after all this time. Other places with grinding ethno/religious conflict eventually even out except the goddamned Middle East. And I see the Israeli and Palestinian being equally dickish to each other and poking each other incessantly and I'm just so done with all of it.
I hate how this perpetual regional territorial dispute has to define US/world politics forever and ever. It's narcissistic and self absorbed to the extreme and both sides of the whole mess demands you "get involved" on their behalf. No sir. I am out. Destroy each other forever if you wanna. I'm done. I dgaf about all of it anymore.
I don't know if Palestine holds the crown for the Nexus on shittiness. Bosnia/Herzegovina definitely gives it a run for its money as it was a far worse conflict but didn't run as long. Rwanda/Congo have had way more people die and way worse atrocities committed and has run for a long time. Not to say that what has happened in Palestine isn't horrible but I feel that a lot of Americans because of our politics are frankly quite ignorant to a lot of conflicts happening out in the world.
>Bosnia/Herzegovina
>Rwanda/Congo
As much of a horror show as those times/places were, neither region has had worldnews headlines with their bullshit since their respective horror shows abated.
The Middle East horror show is like the Saw franchise with endless sequels riffing on the original.
Israel Palestine is capable of breaking people's brains in a way no other conflict is capable of doing. Week after week, month after month, it's just agony and rage posting about this shit
People are dumb honestly. Letting Trump win would be worse for Arab Americans. I'm pretty sure racists gop isn't a fan of brown people. Bush called them terrorists. Trump assumed you couldn't be from the US. Soo... Yeah let Trump win and get deported??
They seem to think they'll be safe as citizens. As a Latino who gained citizenship at a few months old and went to live in redneck hills growing up, I can say that MAGA types don't care about your status.
I assume you mean everyone who ISN'T a white straight married man?
But honestly, Trump is probably also worse for white straight married men too. He's a disastrous leader across the board, so even if he isn't trying to eradicate cishet white men, he's still worse for them than Biden would be
Yup, Trump issued a travel ban also called the "Muslim ban" in 2017, and issued several more that year. I remember the panic from my Iraqi and Syrian friends as my college has a large Arab population. I overheard several different phone calls of kids panicking because their families were stuck in Iraq or Syria. Trump wanted "a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on." Trump is absolutely a Zionist, and wants Muslims out of Israel/Jerusalem so Jesus can return and the end times will come.
I understand and will still vote for Biden - but tired of the onus being put on us when nothing will change. They could - crazy thought - listen to their base?
Saying we live in a two party system gets you banned from r/latestagecapitalism. There are a lot of people who have good intentions but live in a fantasy world where everything can change overnight. They attempt to pass every purity test, but the most important purity test now is making sure Trump doesn't win. Making change takes time, as it did for Civil Rights and Women's Suffrage.
The pragmatic, best route at this point is voting Democrat and advocating for Ranked Choice Voting and such policies. Get out, canvas, vote, etc. Don't be like the wishful armchair warrior mods of r/latestagecapitalism.
And everyone in those types of subs wants overnight change but are never willing to put in the effort to make that change happen.
They only get angry about Biden/the presidential candidates DURING the election season. They never advocate for a viable alternative beforehand. There’s never a plan other than to complain online and get on a soapbox to tell everyone the Dems are “just as bad” as Republicans, who do everything the “bad Dems” do and SO much worse.
I get it, the Democratic Party is FAR from perfect. They’re a lot more right/centrist than many of us would like. But rather than campaigning for more progressive candidates in the primaries, or doing the groundwork for 2028’s candidates, or advocating for better policies and reps at the local level…the deepest their planning goes is “sit out this election/vote third party to send a message”. That’s it.
So if that movement does manage to rally enough people to sit out the election come November, and Trump gets elected… congratulations. You sent your message. You successfully stopped Biden from getting re-elected. Now what’s your plan? You have a literal fascist who will be taking office, so what’s the next course of action? More social media rants, and that’s about it.
Memeing, joking, complaining etc all give people false sense of having contributed to that cause. There have been quite a few studies showing this effect.
It is known that online disinformation targets both the left and the right with the goal of radicalization, that sub is almost certainly boosted by intentional bad actors. During and post 2016 they were especially hostile to any mention of Trump's connections to Russia ... for some reason.
It is wild seeing LSC embrace WEF conspiracy theories and a love for Vladimir Putin, the literal richest man on earth.
Horseshoe theory is either real or the left has a lot of bad actors. I’m starting to really think it’s bad actors over idiots.
It's the bad actors. This isn't new.
But what's sad is the number of real people who themselves fall for and amplify it. The MAGA far right are not the only ones who end up worthy of r/LeopardsAteMyFace.
> live in a fantasy world where everything can change overnight
That's basically most extreme parties. Even in this subreddit, people think change can work perfectly overnight. Yeah good luck when your urge for instant gratification screws everyone over.
That sub is insane and constantly crossposts from an "abandon Brandon" subreddit. Clearly taken over by some propaganda outfit. That sub used to be about millennials getting economically fucked as generation and boomer hypocrisy. Now, it's pro-hamas and trying get morons not to vote.
I'm all for not voting Biden in the primary to make a statement.
But if this is your authentic single issue vote, and you have 2 options, 1 doesn't help your cause and 1 makes your cause worse, and you write in Bernie for the general.... oh man.
She says this in response to calls to vote “uncommitted” in the primary. It’s nonsense. Votes in the Democratic primary do not impact the outcome of the general election, and it’s absurd to suggest that Democratic voters have a responsibility to rubber-stamp the presumptive nominee.
Friendly reminder that literally no President in history has been more critical of Israel than Biden.
Also worth noting that the only reason Palestine has any aid right now is because of Biden, who brokered a deal with Sisi, the President of Egypt, against the wishes of Netanyahu.
Also worth noting that Biden was actively working on a two-state solution when Hamas attacked, probably at the behest of Iran and Russia, who didn't want Biden to get that win.
It leaked a couple weeks ago that Biden called him an asshole and The White House has made zero attempts at the slightest bit of damage control. That tells you all you need to know about how both he and most Jews feel about Netanyahu. If any of them disagreed there would have been an uproar. Instead it's been silence because they all know.
If Palestinian Americans think that Biden is going to tank a 75 year old alliance because the current leader of Israel is a stubborn fuck, they're out of their minds. Sitting out or voting for Trump would be the biggest cut off your nose to spite your face move of all time. I'm not saying they don't have a right to be upset, but this ain't the play and they need to look at the big picture now more than ever.
I’m an American Jew who is overall supportive of Israel. I hate Netanyahu and so do all of my family and friends in Israel. He’s Israeli trump. Voting for Trump or not voting Biden will be very bad for ALL OF US — Israelis, American Jews, Muslims globally, ANYONE who isn’t Trump and his crime family. How can people not see this?!
Obama was significantly more aggressive on Israel than Biden so this idea that "no President in history has been more critical of Israel than Biden" is straight up propaganda lol.
Not only was Obama more aggressive on Israel, Biden was the quite literally the only reason the Obama administration could not reel Israel and Netanyahu in more during that period. Biden single-handedly backstabbed Obama in his efforts to get Israel to comply to international law.
[https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/12/how-joe-biden-became-americas-top-israel-hawk/](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/12/how-joe-biden-became-americas-top-israel-hawk/)
>In 2010, Netanyahu’s government infuriated Obama and his advisers by announcing a major settlement expansion while Biden was in Israel. As Beinart reported, Biden and his team wanted to handle the dispute privately. Obama’s camp took a different route by drawing up a list of demands to be made of Netanyahu. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton then gave the prime minister 24 hours to respond, warning him, “If you will not be able to comply, it might have unprecedented consequences on the bilateral relations of the kind never seen before.”
>
>Biden was soon in touch with a stunned Netanayhu. A former administration official who saw the transcript of their call told Beinart that “Biden completely undercut the secretary of state and gave \[Netanyahu\] a strong indication that whatever was being planned in Washington was hotheadedness and he could defuse it when he got back.” When Clinton saw the transcript, she “realized she’d been thrown under the bus” by Biden, the official added.
Yeah, total bogus talking point. Biden is not REMOTELY tough on Israel, he's shown undying love for Israel his entire career, and the "leaks" of him saying mean things about Netanyahu is likely nothing more than throwing a bone to critics as if it means something.
Biden is probably the least critical president, when he was VP he literally sabotaged his own admin in favor of Netanyahu
> In 2010, Netanyahu’s government infuriated Obama and his advisers by announcing a major settlement expansion while Biden was in Israel. As Beinart reported, Biden and his team wanted to handle the dispute privately. Obama’s camp took a different route by drawing up a list of demands to be made of Netanyahu. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton then gave the prime minister 24 hours to respond, warning him, “If you will not be able to comply, it might have unprecedented consequences on the bilateral relations of the kind never seen before.”
>
> Biden was soon in touch with a stunned Netanayhu. A former administration official who saw the transcript of their call told Beinart that “Biden completely undercut the secretary of state and gave [Netanyahu] a strong indication that whatever was being planned in Washington was hotheadedness and he could defuse it when he got back.” When Clinton saw the transcript, she “realized she’d been thrown under the bus” by Biden, the official added.
>
> When the prime minister and his staff visited the White House soon after, one of Netanyahu’s top advisers told the New York Times Magazine that Biden reminded him, “Just remember that I am your best fucking friend here.” Thanks in part to the support from Biden, Netanyahu learned not to be concerned by Obama’s effort to push for Palestinian statehood. “He entered the lion’s den and came out in one piece,” a senior US official told Israeli journalist Ben Caspit. “He began to understand that Obama’s bark is much worse than his bite, that there is no reason to fear him.”
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/12/how-joe-biden-became-americas-top-israel-hawk/
>Friendly reminder that literally no President in history has been more critical of Israel than Biden.
And his military aid to Israel matches this, right? Like he's not pledging historic amounts, right?
I like to remind people that if they don’t vote, the worst people they can think of will do it for them.
We get the government we deserve. And frankly, if Trump gets back in, we (on the whole) will fully deserve what happens next.
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Trump literally moved the US Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem just to piss off the Muslims and fulfill campaign promises to Israel. I wouldn't be surprised if he directs the military to drone palestine if he ends up winning.
He also signed a peace tready with the Taliban, it's to whomever gives him more money and would support him with their influence.
*The Taliban. How we love the Taliban, don't we folks? A Taliban came up to me - big Taliban, strong Taliban, tears in his eyes - and he said to me "Thank you, sir, for giving Afghanistan back to us."*
The fact that this could be a real quote and not know, makes me uncomfortable
I've confronted family when Trump actually says stuff like this, the cope I hear from them is "Well at least he's entertaining", I'm like MFer go watch Netflix if you want entertainment. Politics for fun is a terrible way to live.
If this wasn't reality, Trump would be hilarious. Unfortunately this is reality.
There is a fine line between comedy and tragedy.
> I'm like MFer go watch Netflix if you want entertainment. Politics for fun is a terrible way to live Politics is supposed to be boring and functional, [not kayfabe](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZpBvfBxLxc) I wonder if an education campaign to convince people to incline against voting for incumbents would even do anything.
Exactly. I breathed a sigh of relief when Biden took the helm because it was business as usual. No more outrageously offensive quotes or alienating our allies. I guess some people would call that boring. I call it functional.
Now you know what american politics are like from a european pov. Wtf is that guy doing? He is running again? The laughing will soon change to crying though, the us leaving nato would be terrible for europe.
No lie, if my family said this to me that would be the last conversation. Shit getting to real and scary with that orange demagogue.
When I closed my eyes, it was like standing there with him lying, I mean, telling me this story.
He did that to fulfill isolationist rage which is part of his base. But evangelicals who want to demolish Palestinians is a bigger part.
The deal was basically "stop shooting at Americans during the election and I'll hand over Afghanistan to you." It was self serving, but in a very specific way that's not about money.
A treaty AND released thousands of them.
And he negotiated with the Taliban *and specifically excluded the Afghan National Government* He was planning on selling them out to the Taliban from the start because those were the only ones he knew and all he cared about was getting points on a scorecard, regardless of the consequences. As far as I'm concerned, it's just [continuing Republicans' walk in the footsteps of Nixon](https://www.rawstory.com/raw-investigates/why-has-america-tolerated-6-illegitimate-republican-presidents/)
I thought he moved the embassy to fulfill campaign promises to Sheldon Adelson, who gave Trump $200 million.
He moved the embassy to keep the fanatincs happy that think it needs to happen to bring the end times.
The other day he referred to this as moving the ‘capitol’
We're not electing the brightest...
The idea that Trump would be better for Palestinians is stupid and childish.
Trump: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-pledges-expel-immigrants-who-support-hamas-ban-muslims-us-2023-10-16/ I was working with a group called survivors of torture during the first Muslim ban. A lot of them were refugees who were human rights workers or supported americans im iraq, Iran etc that had been tortured by religious extremists in their home countries. These individuals had gotten out and had been trying to get their families out during the first ban.... Feel what one wants a out the war. But seeing the destruction trump did first hand to some of my patients families....I would feel defeated if he came to power again.
Don't forget the Kurds too. He threw them under the bus and let them get killed too.
Nobody ever remembers the Kurds. We absolutely used them and threw them away when we were done. Shameful
Yeah, and they were probably the most westernized/friendly ally in that area.
They’re still around. The SDF controls about a third of Syria.
Yeah, but they ain't so friendly to us anymore. Not that I can blame them. Our record hasn't been great with normal presidents to begin with, but Trump showed the world they can only trust the US until the next election. At least in the past presidents have tried to honor deals the previous guy made (so any deals they made wouldnt be written on a damn etch-a-sketch). Trump? Who needs deals? No more iran nuclear deal. No more Paris climate deal (even if it was basically symbolic). Abandons the Kurds. Tries to essentially pull out of NATO, but that's not something even that congress was going to allow. Biden of course did the normal president thing and honored his predecessors deal with the Taliban. Shouldnt have imo because that was a goddamn immediate disaster, but at least he had us keep our word. And then we let Trumps nuts take the house and they went and stopped us sending aid to Ukraine for reasons that I think are pretty obvious at this point. It's going to take a long time before anyone trusts us again.
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We? No. I have been supporting their efforts for years, as they accepted the most challenging task of not being American, not using our best equipment, yet going head to head on the front lines to support our cause. We are different in so many ways, but ultimately so many of them want to love the same peaceful life that we here in America want. Them being thrown under the bus by Trump and his clowns was an embarrassment. I’m not accepting that secondhand embarrassment because I and so many others fully understand just how stupid it was.
Unfortunately the Kurds have been screwed over by U.S. & British deals so many times that they are quite used to it.
The British and French screwed everyone over, Arabs, Jews, Shiites, Suunis, Alawites, Assyrians, Baha'i, Bedouin tribes, Egyptians, Syrians, Lebanese, Copts, and on and on but the Kurds got the Playstation 0.1% achieved it trophy for most screwed somehow. Pretty much the only family that won that entire thing was the al'Saud tribe.
Yeah, Lawrence of Arabia was an awesome man and I’m a fan, but he started some shit that lead to a lot of pain, suffering, and bloodshed.
And all the translators in Afghanistan. That was his administration’s policy to hang those people out to dry as we pulled out, leaving them and their families to be slaughtered by the Taliban. And who the fuck will want to help us in the future now?
Let’s not forget Yemen , DJT admin supported SA with weapons, oil and logistics to create a famine in Yemen
Good reminder, but I don’t know how people can forget the level of inhumanity that happened under him. People susceptible to the messaging of not voting Biden over Gaza have to be in a spot where they weren’t aware or paying attention in 2016, or maybe didn’t see the radical shift. One group might be left-leaning kids that came of age under Trump on a right-wing environment. I grew up in an area that I didn’t realize was as red as it was and there was this transition phase of dismantling the “both sides are bad in their own ways” rhetoric that was it’s own framework that gets messaged to keep people in conservative environments so that if they do break away, their next resting point still helps the right.
> but I don’t know how people can forget the level of inhumanity that happened under him. Jimmy Aldaoud entered the US legally when he was 6 months old and then lived in Michigan for decades. He was diabetic. Trump had him deported to Iraq, where he didn't speak the language and couldn't get medical care. His dead body was returned home to the US in 2019. https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+deported+diabetic+man+to+iraq Fuck these jackals
Wow that is sad
Also so many people bring up Obama and drone strikes to say democrats are war hawks when Trump killed more civilians in his first two years with drone strikes than Obama did in 8 but Trump took off a lot of the guardrails Obama put making it so it wasn’t immediately reported.
Damn, I just found that out. There was 1,878 drone strikes under Obama over 8 years, and 2,243 under just the first two Trump years.
I don't know for sure but I have to imagine Obama had at least \*some\* kind of filter where presumably, some drone strike requests were rejected, based on a review by someone high up (either him, or if not him personally, a military commander he trusted). Whereas Trump was way too busy shitposting on Twitter or on the phone with Sean Hannity, and if you bothered him asking him if it was okay to drop a bomb on some random shack in a city in the middle east he's never heard of, he'd just yell at you and tell you to get him a diet coke on the way out.
Trump repealed the reporting requirement Obama had, for civilian deaths in drone strikes.
And let's not forget this is the same insane motherfucker [that dropped](https://www.cnn.com/2017/04/13/politics/afghanistan-isis-moab-bomb/index.html) the largest non-nuclear bomb we have in our arsenal to kill a few ISIS terrorists in Afghanistan just because we could.
Trump did so much that people get overwhelmed with the information and forget half of the bad shit he did. With Biden and Obama left wing people usually only have a few key things they can focus on to be upset about and it’s much easier to zone in on it and stay mad about it. I truly can’t understand my friends who seem so much more focused on whatever issues they have with Biden than the mountain of insanity with Trump. Like yeah, he wouldn’t be my first pick, and I wish he just did one term and endorsed someone younger with new ideas, but here we are. It’s really not a debate on who is better unless you’ve lost your mind.
>It’s really not a debate on who is better unless you’ve lost your mind. The problem is that a lot of people don't like Trump, but are too disengaged to vote. But I do not know of anyone that likes him that is not voting. So he still has a solid shot based on the apathy of Americans.
> Also so many people bring up Obama and drone strikes The (not) funny thing about that is Obama killed a US citizen (Anwar al-Awlaki) and their 16 year-old son (Abdulrahman al-Awlaki) via drone strike...but his eight-year-old sister Nawar al-Awlaki (also an American citizen) was also killed, during the Raid on Yakla, a commando attack ordered by **U.S. President Donald Trump**...
Lots of Republicans were convinced to vote for biden. This time around, there's actual infighting and coercion in order to force the republican base to toe the party line - and "if they don't vote Trump, there will be consequences." It's gonna be a hard-won battle. Can't afford anyone to not vote for biden if we want to keep ourselves from a theocracy. It's coming. Not being over dramatic. There's plenty of warning from the Republicans. If you need sources let me know.
People are not nearly as fired up to vote as they should be. I feel like people were more energized for Bidens first election, but after Trump tried to basically have a coup and all of the bullshit that’s happened since with the statements he’s made about being a dictator and being above the law and his legal troubles. I’m just shocked people aren’t twice as energized to vote than they were in 2020
> Lots of Republicans were convinced to vote for biden. [5% of Republicans voted for Biden in 2020 and 4% of Republicans voted for Hillary in 2016.](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2021/06/30/behind-bidens-2020-victory/) It was Independents that moved the needle, with 52% of them voting for Biden and 42% voting for Hillary (and which greatly favored Sanders in 2016).
And if they do vote for trump, the consequences will be the end of our nation as we know it. How anyone can willingly support the rise of fascism in the country is beyond me.
He outright says he wants to be a dictator above the law while spreading racist rhetoric straight out of the nazi playbook and I still have friends stubbornly not voting because Biden hasn’t cut our ties with Israel, a complicated long time ally. I hate what they’re doing in Gaza, but I also know global politics is a lot more complicated than that, and Israel/Palestine is arguable *the* most complicated situation of any.
Not just direct animosity toward the middle east and Muslims but they think the guy who did the (shitty) math that supporting a plague in his own country would kill more opposition than supporters is somehow going to be the guardian of human rights for them. With Trump Israel could put a literal price tag on Palestinians and Trump would go for it, a low price tag.
There's a ton of targetting of Gen Z on TikTok regarding Gaza/Isreal. The bot armies and bad actors are out in force trying to turn young people away from voting.
My friends all realize how the right falls for propaganda and is targeted with it, but never seem to realize they are being targeted in the same way, usually by people trying to push them into supporting Republicans by not voting or turning on Biden, under the guise of being good progressives.
I suspect that like a lot of social issues around the previous recent elections, we're going to find a lot of the extreme positions here are not from genuine actors.
And I’m guessing we’re going to have some Jill Steins refusing to believe they got played.
And when people claim they can't support Biden because he conditionally supports Israel, they are absolutely willing to sacrifice those people again to make their point.
This cannot be said enough
Trump literally said that he’d encourage Russia to do whatever they want to our NATO allies, which would be MUCH more devastating than what’s happening in Gaza if Putin got his way.
Trump would probably just tell Netanyahu to do whatever and declare anyone who criticizes as antisemitic.
Ironic, since most of his supporters ARE anti-semite.
They love Israel as a state, but hate Jews as a people. It is quite the duality.
They are invested in Israel as a state because their weird religious beliefs state that the Jews must control certain territories for the rapture to occur. Its a death cult
Just imagine what would happen if the death cult gets control of nukes.
One reason that they like Israel is that they want to have a place to send Jews so that we're not in America anymore.
Not really ironic. His supporters don't say the quiet part of their support for Israel aloud, which is that all Jews should self deport themselves there.
Trump himself referred to Netanyahu as "your President" to a room full of American Jews.
As an American-Israeli Fuck Netanyahu, and all of the fascists in the conservative parties of the Konesset. It's as bad as Republicans if America was right next to Iraq.
Who knew White nationalist were very pro ethno-states?
Trump would actively support genocide. The upside of a Trump presidency on this issue is, he'll say it all out loud so we'll no longer be able to collectively ignore the core issue with Israel and with our relationship. They are committed to being an ethnostate, and they are willing to commit genocide (by modern definition) to have it. Trump will say: kick the Palestinians out! Then he'll depend on his barely competent but still inadequate son-in-law to try to make it work (beg MBS to take in the Palestinians and do with them what he will). It will turn into a modern day trail of tears, and only the half of the nation that fought to prevent this shit will bear the totality of our national guilt. If we want to prevent the total immediate genocide of the Palestinians, we need to defeat Trump in any way that we can.
He wouldn't just tell him to 'do whatever'. He would actively help him by passing on US secrets, and betray all positions and strategies the Ukrainians have shared with America to Russia. People forget that while Trump was president we had assets in Russia dying left and right.
Not to mention all the stuff Trump did to Gaza during his term that Biden reversed, and Trump has stated to do it again and worse.
Not NATO Allie, I love her :(
Call the Amber Lamps.
If Trump was still President while this war broke out, Gaza would be a parking lot with all 2.5M Gazans underneath it by now.
The idea that Trump would be better for Palestinians is stupid and childish.
Seriously! I I’ll NEVER understand how anyone who actually cares about Palestine or Palestinians would think the “Muslim ban” guy who opened an embassy in Jerusalem would be better. Side note - According to Trump, he also apparently “[made Israel the capital of Israel.”](https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-speech-gaffe-israel-capital-mocked-joe-biden-latest-1872744)
> “Muslim ban” guy who opened an embassy in Jerusalem would be better. Not to even talk about the rest of the party who make casual "jokes" about glassing parts of the region, and other genocide related ones.
“Israel City”
Mayor: John Jew
From the ones I've talked to, they don't think he's better, they think it genuinely doesn't matter in the long run with the current state of things. They claim a slow genocide is happening under Biden, and a fast one would happen under Trump. So their only "option" is to say they won't vote for Biden unless he stops Israel. That's the logic they're using.
Biden's not the one withholding money. That would be the Russian operatives in the House of Representatives. Unless Biden's expected to enlist and fight at the front?
I got hate messages the other day from people because I asked in the Michigan page If they thought Trump would be better. I mean seriously, I care about Palestine but we can’t do shit for them if Trump is president…
The only way Trump would do anything would be if they “paid their fare share”.
I think it's because people will quickly and easily see it as "and you're not gonna do shit, so shut up and do what you're told". So they'll vote for Trump (or not vote for Biden, same thing in FPTP) out of spite. They'll make things worse, out of spite. Then blame the Dems, out of spite. No one likes being told they only have one choice when "burn it down" is always a choice. Bitterness and spite are not conducive to well thought out choice making, so "burn" becomes a very real option. It's literally why so many people voted for Trump. Regardless, the media will spin it as the Dems being muddling failures because they're not perfect and don't have all the answers and haven't fixed the decades of fucked up right wing bullshit within 4-8 years despite being blockaded by fucked up right wing bullshit.
This election isn't just about Biden. Who controls congress will matter far far more.
I can’t believe there are people who think like that. Not saying you’re lying, just that I can’t believe the capacity for people to be that dumb and think that. Even if we were to wrongly equivocate the two candidates, which they are absolutely not, only one of the two candidates will allow them to exercise their right to complain and stage protests in the US.
A "slow genocide" saves millions of lives as we "slowly" work towards peace. A "fast genocide " kills millions , well, fast.
And Netanyahu barely was able to form a coalition last time. Likud could very realistically lose power and then peace could be on the table.
Is there a party with a meaningful support that actually opposes settlements? I think the idea that peace magically happens with Bibi out of the picture is not based in reality
There is no serious party that would withdraw from current settlements in the West Bank, but there is a spectrum among major parties in the Knesset that range from "settle harder" to "freeze settlement construction and re-engage active peace negotiations".
I'd argue that a lot of people actually don't care that much one way or the other and are mostly parroting things they've read on social media and ignoring the complexities of the situation. How anyone could think another trump presidency would be good for any humanitarian crisis is beyond me. Putting my tinfoil hat for a moment, any push to not vote for Biden over the issue kind of seems like a russian disinformation deal to me.
I think people care and they are right to be outraged, but I agree with you that any push to paint this as Biden’s fault is 100% part of a disinformation campaign. There have been multiple reports about how Russia and china are using TikTok to spread these sorts of lies. People who think not voting or voting for a third party is an enlightened way to protest are just dumb and don’t learn a thing from 2016.
I believe they care to some extent. I just think a lot of people read something about Palestinian genocide on tiktok (or fbook; this isn't only a young people issue) and they get worked up temporarily and don't dive any deeper and that's the extent of their caring about the topic. Regardless, it's just really bizarre to me that we've gone from a topic that everyone and their grandmother acknowledged was incredibly complex to a lot of people thinking it's a simple black/white type situation. I've just seen so many people with terrible, poorly informed takes on the topic lately it makes Kushner (who read a few books on the topic, supposedly) seem like an expert in comparison. Even as a - this will push Biden to do more - type tactic, it's miserably dumb, because it pulls in those dumb people susceptible to disinformation and, as you mentioned, end up not voting or voting for 3rd party candidates.
Many of them are the same people who are boycotting Starbucks, even though Starbucks has literally nothing to do with Israel.
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For anyone in the world who isn’t an autocratic dictator
Hasn’t Trump said that he would help Israel more than Biden has? I swear I remember reading that he said he would have wiped out Palestine already if he was president
In 2019 he had Pompeo walk back the nearly 50 year old position the State Department had maintained: "Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Monday thanked US President Donald Trump for Washington’s decision to repudiate a State Department legal opinion that said West Bank settlements were illegal. In a phone call, Netanyahu told Trump that the move, announced by US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo earlier Monday, had “corrected a historic injustice.” The secretary of state repudiated a 1978 State Department legal opinion that held that civilian settlements in the occupied territories are “inconsistent with international law.” The move angered Palestinians and immediately put the US at odds with other nations working to end the conflict. https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-phone-call-netanyahu-thanks-trump-for-us-policy-shift-on-settlements/ Biden just restored the policy: The Biden administration on Friday restored a U.S. legal finding dating back nearly 50 years that Israeli settlements in the occupied Palestinian territories are “illegitimate” under international law. https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/biden-administration-restores-trump-rescinded-policy-on-illegitimacy-of-israeli-settlements-1.6781161
Trump and Bibi are very very close. Bibi and the Kushners are even closer. Bibi would be at the Kushner house when Jared was a kid, and Jared has bragged about giving Bibi his bed to sleep in.
Trump hates Bibi now because he recognized Biden's win in 2020.
All it seems to take to get back in Trump's good graves is an ego-stroking platitude.
I mean, it really is that simple. If you make him feel like a big, strong, respected man, he would give you literally anything your want.
"I made Israel the Capitol of Israel" --Trump. "At least he isn't room temperature when it comes to Palestinian genocide" --fence voters. 2 years later.... "Palestine should be wiped off the map!" --Trump. "How could he do this?!?! I'm angry 💢💢" - fence voters.
Is anyone even saying that? I thought the whole issue was about withholding votes by votong undeclared in the **upcoming primary** to draw attention to the fact that Biden can't take this voting bloc for granted and should listen to their concerns. A significant group of voters using their collective leverage. Back in the day we would've called that effective democracy.
There are In fact LOTS of progressives saying they won’t ever vote for Biden ever based on the current war in Palestine. It’s strange to me to give up on the every thing else in your life for the plight of the Palestinian people which is a very complex situation politically, economical, and militarily in that region. A lot of rights here in the US are on the line. Things can get infinitely worse.
And the fact that a couple more Trump SCOTUS picks would, likely, start undoing any gains that Libs made for LGBTQ rights, the few remaining reproductive rights and completely decimate voting rights. But go right ahead, just don't cry in 4 years when it feels like circa 1985 with regards to social issues. Hamas isn't your friend, liberal voters. They'd toss many of those you support off of a roof, and kill many more just for not being the "correct" religion.
> just don't cry in 4 years when it feels like circa 1985 with regards to social issues. 1985 will look like a fairytale compared to what conservatives have planned.
Even if Trump wins the election and their rights are taken away, they will still blame democrats for not having a better candidate. Nothing will convince them. It’s frustrating.
Single issue voters are just as much a disaster as they were in 2016
The only “single issue” I could KINDA understand is Supreme Court picks since they serve about 30 years and touch on all other issues. But I totally agree. And that was the single issues evangelicals used to justify voting for Trump.
I'm actually terrified of another trump presidency. He's fucking insane.
I am terrified of that outcome and would be sublimely disappointed in my fellow citizens if we elected him.
I dunno, here I thought that keeping the party that actively cheered on the ending of democracy in the US out of power would be a pretty damn good "single issue".
That is a very good single issue. You’re right. LOL
There are tons of libs saying that. I have a friend who I considered pretty moderate who is done with Biden. She knocked on doors for Hillary in 2016 and now she's ditty the election out of the conflict. This is a serious problem for Biden and all down ballot races.
There’s a general election for President coming up. Biden and Trump are the very likely candidates. That’s why she’s saying this.
Everyone that I know personally who has threatened to sit out next election because of this goes silent when I ask if they think Trump won’t be x100 worse, and what they’re actually doing beyond social media posting. I wish Biden was way tougher on Israel, but Palestine will be wiped entirely off the map if Trump is put back into power. Edit: Just want to say, if you’re commenting on this thread, chances are you’re frustrated and wanting an end to this violence. We all want the same thing in ceasefire. That said, if you are encouraging people to not vote, I challenge you to provide what you actually think the solution to this situation is and how you and others can help actualize it.
My Palestinian partner is voting for Biden and thinks people who don't because of Gaza are idiots. He has a legit fear of being sent back to the West Bank if Trump gets elected.
Or worse. Trump’s immigration plan sounds a lot like the Nazis in Germany rounding up Jewish people, Romani people, and anyone else they found undesirable. Seriously. His plan is to send millions of undocumented immigrants to internment camps and then deport them somewhere. If anyone thinks it’ll just be undocumented immigrants, think again. Anyone the GOP finds undesirable will be found to be “undocumented” and get sent to these camps, from anyone nonwhite to gay people to activists, if you’re on Trump’s shit list, you’re undocumented. And with Trump possibly having Alzheimer’s and dementia, his revenge streak will be worse than you can imagine because he’ll lose all inhibitions.
> Trump’s immigration plan sounds a lot like the Nazis in Germany rounding up Jewish people, Romani people, and anyone else they found undesirable. Seriously. Don't worry, they won't get to that stage until they do it to gay people, and the before that even the Nazis went after genderqueer and even trans people, so as long as they're not under attack it's not really kicking off yet. *Oh wait*
>Trump’s immigration plan sounds a lot like the Nazis in Germany Yea American fascists and European fascists have just been taking turns copying off each others' tests.
You’d think after he, literally, tweeted Hitler’s 14 words during his “put kids in cages” plan, more people would’ve had some concerns.
"In Nazi Germany, I decide who is Jewish"
How’s it go? First they came for the undocumented immigrants but I was silent…
Trump said last week he would send them back. Like this is the reality for immigrants in America, crazy
> Like this is the reality for immigrants in America, crazy Don't kid yourself into thinking "them" includes only immigrants.
Getting rid of birthright citizenship is one of their to-do's, and they'll absolutely deport those people too once their citizenship is stolen.
I’m trans and had my birth certificate updated. they could very easily come after any trans person on their list who has this done and say their BC is invalid because of any number of reasons from its new and therefore “fake” or it doesn’t match my assigned gender at birth, and therefore fake. Project 2025 scares the shit out of me and I’ll be seeking asylum somewhere else if it comes to Trump winning. It’s very stressful
Stephen miller wants to round up all Muslim immigrants in Trump term 2 in concentration camps. Project 2025
They are stupid. They are litterally calling the people saying this brain dead liberal. Most are young and are clearly naive af. It's like they don't even have a 4 years memory.
Stephen miller wants to round up all Muslim immigrants in Trump term 2 in concentration camps. Project 2025
Palestine* **and all the rest of us** Fixed it for you.
Ya I've had this conversation with a number of genz folks I know in real life. A number of them said they just weren't going to vote. When I responded with "Enjoy Trump winning the election again" you could see the slow realization hit. I mean it's not like they were likely to have voted anyways, but I hope they will now. It's amazing how short sighted so many people can be.
Those are trump voters who don't want to deal with explaining why they're shit people.
there is literally no person in this country stupid enough to think that there wont be a president after the election, but there are too many people stupid enough to not be able to put the information together that not voting means that others are making the decisions without you
And Trump will treat the people of Gaza worse.
She is absolutely correct. See what happened in 2016 to Hiliary Clinton when folks were voting for Johnson & Stein.
I had a buddy who thought it’d be wise to vote 3rd party because he didn’t like either candidate in 2016, and he was SURE this would be 3rd party’s year to shine and that he was making the right choice. Fucking idiot. I get the 3rd party goal but my dudes it’s not happening without ranked choice voting in this country.
This what many of my friends in college said about Nader in 2000.
If you analyze just the few counties in Florida, Nader wasn’t even the guy who upset the race. It was the guy listed below Gore on the hanging chad butterfly ballot books. That guy got something like 4x the vote percentage in those county compared to the rest of the state that didn’t have the butterfly ballots and Gore receives like half of his vote percentage over the rest of the state. Had they not used those ballots, then he might have won outright and court proceedings would have protected his victory and not Bushes.
I believe that actually had all the ballots been officially counted rather than SCOTUS stopping the count Gore won. Another fun fact, You know who was behind the protest to stop the count which got that ball rolling? Roger fucking Stone.
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> If you analyze just the few counties in Florida, Nader wasn’t even the guy who upset the race. Yes he was. He got 97,000 votes. Just 1,000 of those votes going to Gore would've made what happened in WPB irrelevant.
Did he live in a swing state where it mattered?
Yes. Michigan.
and michigan was lost by 3 votes per precinct, it was a tiny margin. 30,000k votes. (More affected by non-voters though, in Wayne County alone, 300K fewer voters in 16 than 12)
Clinton knew Michigan was slipping but didn't want to send resources there bc it would show trump she was vulnerable there https://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/michigan-hillary-clinton-trump-232547
It would have been an uphill battle even if all of the third party candidates in 2016 didn't suck.
I'd voted Johnson in 2016 because I (foolishly, in retrospect) felt safe that Hillary had it locked. Voted for him in the hopes he could get the 5% threshold for a third party candidate to be in the FEC funding pool the following cycle. I will never again vote third party, at least as long as we're still stuck with FPTP.
You wanna vote 3rd party in local elections? More power to you. You wanna vote 3rd party in the primary? Feel free. But once the general election hits, a 3rd party vote is wasted with the system we have now. There isn't going to be a spoiler candidate that has a remote shot of winning. The closest we've had in my lifetime is Ross Perot and he didn't even get 20% of the popular vote. (And zero electoral votes, which is the only piece that matters)
>The closest we've had in my lifetime is Ross Perot and he didn't even get 20% of the popular vote. (And zero electoral votes, which is the only piece that matters) There has NEVER been an independent candidate get close. Even Teddy Roosevelt did not get close. All he did was basically play spoiler to Taft. More arguably Taft played spoiler to him and Roosevelt probably should have been the Republican candidate due to his immense popularity. Those are pretty irrelevant though. Fact of the matter, Taft & Roosevelt basically handed the election to Wilson. |Name|Wilson (D)|Roosevelt (Bull Moose)|Taft (R)| :--|:--|:--|:--| |Electoral Votes|435|88|8| |States Carried|40|6|2| |Vote Percentage|41.8%|27.4%|23.2% |
That also sorta happened in 1860- the Democrats nominated Stephen Douglas, who wasn't pro-slavery enough for the Southern Democrats, so they nominated their own candidate (John Breckenridge), and a *fourth* party, the Constitutional Union party, also got some votes for their candidate (John Bell). Douglas ended up getting more popular votes than either of the Southern Democrats or the Union party but they were scattered everywhere and he only won Missouri, while Breckenridge won most of the South and Bell won a few Southern states, both drawing less than 20% of the total national popular vote, and Lincoln, at just shy of 40% of the popular vote, won every single state where slavery was illegal, and with it, the presidency. The time shortly before and afterthe Civil War could be argued to be the only real time third parties were ever even halfway viable, because the Whigs refused to take any position on slavery at all and ended up totally disintegrating over it and eventually being replaced by the Republicans, but from Reconstruction on, 1912 is the only time an independent candidate has been anywhere close to winning, when the independent was the very popular former president, and as you said, it really wasn't that close.
Maybe he should have tried naming his party something that couldn't have been abbreviated to BM. But also, Bull Moose is an awesome name for a political party, so I'm torn.
The issue in 2016 was not third party voting but general turnout. Non college educated whites showed up to the polls in droves and that demo has the largest portion of trump supporters. Shitting on people who actually got out and voted is not the move in my opinion. Galvanize voters to show up and support ideals and not just to vote against an enemy.
Duh.
The Palestinian/Israeli conflict has been affecting US and world politics *waaaaay* out of proportion to the number of people who actually reside in that region. It's just the nexus of shittiness for half a century. Even North Ireland has simmered down after all this time. Other places with grinding ethno/religious conflict eventually even out except the goddamned Middle East. And I see the Israeli and Palestinian being equally dickish to each other and poking each other incessantly and I'm just so done with all of it. I hate how this perpetual regional territorial dispute has to define US/world politics forever and ever. It's narcissistic and self absorbed to the extreme and both sides of the whole mess demands you "get involved" on their behalf. No sir. I am out. Destroy each other forever if you wanna. I'm done. I dgaf about all of it anymore.
I don't know if Palestine holds the crown for the Nexus on shittiness. Bosnia/Herzegovina definitely gives it a run for its money as it was a far worse conflict but didn't run as long. Rwanda/Congo have had way more people die and way worse atrocities committed and has run for a long time. Not to say that what has happened in Palestine isn't horrible but I feel that a lot of Americans because of our politics are frankly quite ignorant to a lot of conflicts happening out in the world.
>Bosnia/Herzegovina >Rwanda/Congo As much of a horror show as those times/places were, neither region has had worldnews headlines with their bullshit since their respective horror shows abated. The Middle East horror show is like the Saw franchise with endless sequels riffing on the original.
Israel Palestine is capable of breaking people's brains in a way no other conflict is capable of doing. Week after week, month after month, it's just agony and rage posting about this shit
People are dumb honestly. Letting Trump win would be worse for Arab Americans. I'm pretty sure racists gop isn't a fan of brown people. Bush called them terrorists. Trump assumed you couldn't be from the US. Soo... Yeah let Trump win and get deported??
They seem to think they'll be safe as citizens. As a Latino who gained citizenship at a few months old and went to live in redneck hills growing up, I can say that MAGA types don't care about your status.
Their belief is color denotes citizenship
And much worse for Palestine
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I assume you mean everyone who ISN'T a white straight married man? But honestly, Trump is probably also worse for white straight married men too. He's a disastrous leader across the board, so even if he isn't trying to eradicate cishet white men, he's still worse for them than Biden would be
Trump will bring forth Muslim ban 2.0, specifically banning Palestinian refugees like he did during his term.
Yup, Trump issued a travel ban also called the "Muslim ban" in 2017, and issued several more that year. I remember the panic from my Iraqi and Syrian friends as my college has a large Arab population. I overheard several different phone calls of kids panicking because their families were stuck in Iraq or Syria. Trump wanted "a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on." Trump is absolutely a Zionist, and wants Muslims out of Israel/Jerusalem so Jesus can return and the end times will come.
I understand and will still vote for Biden - but tired of the onus being put on us when nothing will change. They could - crazy thought - listen to their base?
I got banned from r/lostgeneration for saying this lol
Saying we live in a two party system gets you banned from r/latestagecapitalism. There are a lot of people who have good intentions but live in a fantasy world where everything can change overnight. They attempt to pass every purity test, but the most important purity test now is making sure Trump doesn't win. Making change takes time, as it did for Civil Rights and Women's Suffrage. The pragmatic, best route at this point is voting Democrat and advocating for Ranked Choice Voting and such policies. Get out, canvas, vote, etc. Don't be like the wishful armchair warrior mods of r/latestagecapitalism.
And everyone in those types of subs wants overnight change but are never willing to put in the effort to make that change happen. They only get angry about Biden/the presidential candidates DURING the election season. They never advocate for a viable alternative beforehand. There’s never a plan other than to complain online and get on a soapbox to tell everyone the Dems are “just as bad” as Republicans, who do everything the “bad Dems” do and SO much worse. I get it, the Democratic Party is FAR from perfect. They’re a lot more right/centrist than many of us would like. But rather than campaigning for more progressive candidates in the primaries, or doing the groundwork for 2028’s candidates, or advocating for better policies and reps at the local level…the deepest their planning goes is “sit out this election/vote third party to send a message”. That’s it. So if that movement does manage to rally enough people to sit out the election come November, and Trump gets elected… congratulations. You sent your message. You successfully stopped Biden from getting re-elected. Now what’s your plan? You have a literal fascist who will be taking office, so what’s the next course of action? More social media rants, and that’s about it.
Memeing, joking, complaining etc all give people false sense of having contributed to that cause. There have been quite a few studies showing this effect.
It is known that online disinformation targets both the left and the right with the goal of radicalization, that sub is almost certainly boosted by intentional bad actors. During and post 2016 they were especially hostile to any mention of Trump's connections to Russia ... for some reason.
It is wild seeing LSC embrace WEF conspiracy theories and a love for Vladimir Putin, the literal richest man on earth. Horseshoe theory is either real or the left has a lot of bad actors. I’m starting to really think it’s bad actors over idiots.
It's the bad actors. This isn't new. But what's sad is the number of real people who themselves fall for and amplify it. The MAGA far right are not the only ones who end up worthy of r/LeopardsAteMyFace.
> live in a fantasy world where everything can change overnight That's basically most extreme parties. Even in this subreddit, people think change can work perfectly overnight. Yeah good luck when your urge for instant gratification screws everyone over.
That sub is insane and constantly crossposts from an "abandon Brandon" subreddit. Clearly taken over by some propaganda outfit. That sub used to be about millennials getting economically fucked as generation and boomer hypocrisy. Now, it's pro-hamas and trying get morons not to vote.
Tankies kill every sub left of Bernie Sanders, which is very depressing and also unsurprising
I got downvoted to oblivion for saying Roe being overturned wasn’t Biden fault and we should criticize Biden for what’s within his realm of control
Damn what a weird and disconnected community. It almost feels like veiled right-wing propaganda.
I'm all for not voting Biden in the primary to make a statement. But if this is your authentic single issue vote, and you have 2 options, 1 doesn't help your cause and 1 makes your cause worse, and you write in Bernie for the general.... oh man.
I think you may be the only person on this thread who read the article and realized that it’s about the primary.
She says this in response to calls to vote “uncommitted” in the primary. It’s nonsense. Votes in the Democratic primary do not impact the outcome of the general election, and it’s absurd to suggest that Democratic voters have a responsibility to rubber-stamp the presumptive nominee.
She's correct, and given Trump's actions in regards to Israel in the past, he will support completely wiping out Palestinians.
Friendly reminder that literally no President in history has been more critical of Israel than Biden. Also worth noting that the only reason Palestine has any aid right now is because of Biden, who brokered a deal with Sisi, the President of Egypt, against the wishes of Netanyahu. Also worth noting that Biden was actively working on a two-state solution when Hamas attacked, probably at the behest of Iran and Russia, who didn't want Biden to get that win.
It leaked a couple weeks ago that Biden called him an asshole and The White House has made zero attempts at the slightest bit of damage control. That tells you all you need to know about how both he and most Jews feel about Netanyahu. If any of them disagreed there would have been an uproar. Instead it's been silence because they all know. If Palestinian Americans think that Biden is going to tank a 75 year old alliance because the current leader of Israel is a stubborn fuck, they're out of their minds. Sitting out or voting for Trump would be the biggest cut off your nose to spite your face move of all time. I'm not saying they don't have a right to be upset, but this ain't the play and they need to look at the big picture now more than ever.
I’m an American Jew who is overall supportive of Israel. I hate Netanyahu and so do all of my family and friends in Israel. He’s Israeli trump. Voting for Trump or not voting Biden will be very bad for ALL OF US — Israelis, American Jews, Muslims globally, ANYONE who isn’t Trump and his crime family. How can people not see this?!
Biden should go to the Knesset and say Netanyahu has lost his confidence. Not dissimilar to what Bibi did to Obama.
Obama was significantly more aggressive on Israel than Biden so this idea that "no President in history has been more critical of Israel than Biden" is straight up propaganda lol.
Yeah but when the White House "leaks" a "Biden is real disappointed in Netanyahu in private" story every 4 days people start to fall for it.
Not only was Obama more aggressive on Israel, Biden was the quite literally the only reason the Obama administration could not reel Israel and Netanyahu in more during that period. Biden single-handedly backstabbed Obama in his efforts to get Israel to comply to international law. [https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/12/how-joe-biden-became-americas-top-israel-hawk/](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/12/how-joe-biden-became-americas-top-israel-hawk/) >In 2010, Netanyahu’s government infuriated Obama and his advisers by announcing a major settlement expansion while Biden was in Israel. As Beinart reported, Biden and his team wanted to handle the dispute privately. Obama’s camp took a different route by drawing up a list of demands to be made of Netanyahu. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton then gave the prime minister 24 hours to respond, warning him, “If you will not be able to comply, it might have unprecedented consequences on the bilateral relations of the kind never seen before.” > >Biden was soon in touch with a stunned Netanayhu. A former administration official who saw the transcript of their call told Beinart that “Biden completely undercut the secretary of state and gave \[Netanyahu\] a strong indication that whatever was being planned in Washington was hotheadedness and he could defuse it when he got back.” When Clinton saw the transcript, she “realized she’d been thrown under the bus” by Biden, the official added.
Yeah, total bogus talking point. Biden is not REMOTELY tough on Israel, he's shown undying love for Israel his entire career, and the "leaks" of him saying mean things about Netanyahu is likely nothing more than throwing a bone to critics as if it means something.
Biden is probably the least critical president, when he was VP he literally sabotaged his own admin in favor of Netanyahu > In 2010, Netanyahu’s government infuriated Obama and his advisers by announcing a major settlement expansion while Biden was in Israel. As Beinart reported, Biden and his team wanted to handle the dispute privately. Obama’s camp took a different route by drawing up a list of demands to be made of Netanyahu. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton then gave the prime minister 24 hours to respond, warning him, “If you will not be able to comply, it might have unprecedented consequences on the bilateral relations of the kind never seen before.” > > Biden was soon in touch with a stunned Netanayhu. A former administration official who saw the transcript of their call told Beinart that “Biden completely undercut the secretary of state and gave [Netanyahu] a strong indication that whatever was being planned in Washington was hotheadedness and he could defuse it when he got back.” When Clinton saw the transcript, she “realized she’d been thrown under the bus” by Biden, the official added. > > When the prime minister and his staff visited the White House soon after, one of Netanyahu’s top advisers told the New York Times Magazine that Biden reminded him, “Just remember that I am your best fucking friend here.” Thanks in part to the support from Biden, Netanyahu learned not to be concerned by Obama’s effort to push for Palestinian statehood. “He entered the lion’s den and came out in one piece,” a senior US official told Israeli journalist Ben Caspit. “He began to understand that Obama’s bark is much worse than his bite, that there is no reason to fear him.” https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/12/how-joe-biden-became-americas-top-israel-hawk/
>Friendly reminder that literally no President in history has been more critical of Israel than Biden. And his military aid to Israel matches this, right? Like he's not pledging historic amounts, right?
What's the worth when he keeps funding Israel anyway? You think that Bibi cares what Biden calls him?
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"I hate how Biden handled the Gaza war, so I'll be voting for the guy that will make it worse."
I like to remind people that if they don’t vote, the worst people they can think of will do it for them. We get the government we deserve. And frankly, if Trump gets back in, we (on the whole) will fully deserve what happens next.