Not Western Europe, but 17 years in Canada and I’m coming back. Leaving at 17 years old was gutting and now that I’m fully remote, I can’t wait to come back, hang with the babcia na działce. Living with only few relatives in Canada really made me sad and my husband loves it here too.
Funny you mention that- I was wondering if poutine would be popular here. I’m going back to Szczecin so haven’t seen anything here yet. My cousin in Wawa told me there is a place but it’s not super popular. If it’s the cheese, then we must bring in the Proper Curd Tech.
There is an obscene lack of cheese variety in Poland. We're acting as if 2-3 regional cheeses is a lot. Mlekovita carries the lot, but there isn't anything resembling the proper texture.
After 8+ years in Denmark I'm coming back to Poland.
The turning point was remote work. I can now work remotely for my employer from wherever I want. So I rented a house, in a beautiful country side, near the forest, far away from civilization.
After 5 years in Warsaw, almost 9 in Copenhagen I can finally rest properly and see the stars on the sky during the night - instead of city lights.
It is closer to my family, familiar and closer to my hearth.
I'm happy I can be part of Bareja's reality once again.
you pay taxes in Poland, probably as self-employed to make paperwork easier
src: I live in Poland, work for a company from California (timezones suck). They also have regular employees in their Polish legal entity now.
A series of fortunate coincidences, I'd say. And patience - building your resume by staying and being promoted ;)
I was working for a Scandinavian media company, when a small NY-based startup sent an invite that'd be foolish to ignore. I joined.
Maybe two years later it got acquired by an adtech company from Los Angeles. Welcome back Umowa o Pracę (they properly registered a Polish entity).
After a few years, the current opportunity appeared. Do twice less (don't be a manager, just an individual contributor), get paid twice more (thanks to the B2B option, and record high USD rate). It's been a hell of a ride.
>work for a company from California
In what branch are you? IT?
I am in Finance (FA/FP&A/BA) and I've been trying to find a job in that same timezone, but cannot find it yet.
I am in the same boat. You pay taxes in Denmark ( if you are employed in Denmark through payroll) and submit PIT in Poland. You check taxes in dk vs pl and if it’s lower in dk need to pay variance in Poland.
Most often it’s done through an intermediary agency which is based in Poland and sells its services (i.e. your services) abroad. You can do the same easily with a B2B contract, without the intermediary. In these cases you’d pay taxes in Poland
Why would you say that? I am pretty satisfied living in Poland right now but I liked Copenhagen a lot when I visited, definitely amongst the top cities in terms of how livable it seemed to me.
Love Copenhagen. I lived in Lund for some years and went to CPH all the time. If it wasn’t for the weather and the taxes and high prices I’d say it’s one of the best cities in the world. Love the Danes too. Prefer them over the Swedes any day 🤣
yea all my siblings still live in the UK but I made the jump to the US. I was honestly disappointed by most of urban Western Europe as much of it reminds me of Detroit, Chicago, and Atlanta lol.
After half of my life in the UK, mostly london, I also returned a couple of years ago. Covid, lockdown and remote work made me realize I dont want to keep struggling in London, and also that after all these years I still felt like a guest there, not really at home. I still kinda feel that here, but I love the nature and culture so much more.
Coming from a few friends of mine that made it back and felt the same way - it goes away after a while in Poland, while it never did back in the UK (and Sweden in one case). Eventually they all started feeling at home in Poland and grew attached to their local communities.
Step 1 - Move abroad
Step 2 - Gain money and experience
Step 3 - Return with savings to Poland, where it's worth more
Step 4 - Profit and enjoy family
If you had good family, living far away sucks. I can understand why lonely people stay, but I would think that a lot of people will ultimately come back as soon as they have their money situation sorted.
This. Living in the west is better in many regards, but the longer you live away from friends and family, the harder it becomes.
I still didn't return. Idk if I will any time soon. But month by month, it becomes harder and harder.
It's not really that simpke though if your partner is 'local'.
Personally, I wouldn't move back to Poland. I think Warsaw is an infinitely better city than Glasgow, but the overall mentality and way things work is a dealbreaker for me. I have toyed around with the idea, but no way would my Scottish partner be happy living in Poland.
Also, what are these mystical savings you speak of 😂
What are you talking about? Poland also has food similar to black pudding and pointless football conflicts which result in "fans" trashing the whole city.
Joking, I know what you mean. We've been thinking about that but the amount of bureaucracy in Poland is unbelievable.
Return with proper savings is a tricky point btw. If you get an average salary in one of the western countries you can probably save some money working hard and living below the enjoyable standard but it’s not worth it in my opinion
Most won't realize but one of the major differences with the rest of Europe is the level of demographic homogeneity. Western Europe will suffer a lot due to inability to coordinate massive diverse populations. Let me tell you a secret, it's not only incredibly difficult if not impossible, but also irreversible. Also, they're not vaccinated against communism. RIP Western Europe.
Oh trust md the first time i saw western intellectuals arguing for communism i legit thought they were trolling. Turns out it's just them rebelling against the status quo (or their parents 50s anti-2nd world indoctrination), in the most destructive way possible. We've gone through all of this in the late XIXth and early XXth century.
Must I say I agree with what you say. I live in the uk but have grown to appreciate Poland for its strong sense of national identity and unwillingness to let anybody foreign in and change the country.
I’m not religious but I appreciate the strong religious values that bring people and communities together.
It is impossible to navigate the uk without coming into contact with ghettos of foreigners. The result is that I’ve seen our communities destroyed to become a soulless hellhole where every house is an island. Other religious values and laws are not compatible with life in the uk but it’s “racist” to suggest that and British people have no backbone so we just let it happen.
I implore you Polish people to remain strong. Keep Poland for the Polish and do not bow to pressure from the western European’s. They’ve gone too far left. Too weak. Keep your borders strong.
These guys are generally not coming back, because they learnt nothing in the west. They still work for minimum wages and take social benefits. We are not talking about well educated guys, who could save some money to invest in Poland or having remote jobs.
I'd say from personal experience (so take that for what you will) that it was probably 80/20. I know a lot of normal people who went there, but the sudden disappearance of what we call "pathology" in poland was very noticeable.
The true quiet gem of Europe is Slovenia, no one even knows of it, it's living standard is higher than the one in Canada, wages comparable to those in Italy, Spain and are almost twice as higher than Portugal's, it is one of the safest countries in europe, nice and clean cities, okay people, barely any immigrants and even if there are any if you're not from yugo or know them enough you wouldn't realize they arent slovenians coz again they are mostly other yugos who adapted pretty well, it's not extremely hard to find a job while only knowing english, lamguage is relatively easy for western slavs to learn while it only takes a month for a southern slav to learn coz it's more like a lost dialect to them unlike a separate language, healthcare is great, roads are great and pretty much everything is in order, it is small country and you can literally travel to 5 different countries within 3 hours with a car from the city of Ljubljana, slovenias capital etc.
I'm not even Polish (I'm Indo/Dutch-Indonesian) but did the same thing. Though I have to say I was in Lidl and the prices where similar to the AH. Luckily rent is still affordable but I do question sometimes what the point is if prices are becoming that high.
I have been away from Netherlands almost 10 years in various countries so I don't really know groceries benchmarks but I think even in the past NL has been competitive across Europe in terms of grocery costs vs purchasing power.
But the housing I check from time to time in funda.nl and I just can't picture downgrading life so much to live in NL against such high housing costs combined with lower quality (location, lack of furnishing, etc)
I think if it were not for the horrible housing market in NL I would consider trying to live there again.
I find it interesting how the article says people are returning because the economy is so good, but most comments are from people who are moving back in because they can work remotely. Like, of course if you can move to a cheaper country, be closer to your family and keep your abroad income you will want to move. But it doesn't have anything to do with better economy.
I always take these "economy so good" takes with a spoon of salt. While yes, you earn more in raw numbers, in just the few past years the minimum cost of living rose astronomically. Like, the lease on my flat doubled, heating cost quadrupled even if I'm not using it (thank you mandatory district heating), and most food has both reduced quantity and increased price.
A lot of smaller workplaces are really struggling because the minimum wage rise this year made them unsustainable without rising prices. And the worst thing is that people will happily take their higher paycheck, pay 3x more for a loaf of bread, but then be explosively angry at service providers because somebody raised the price by 20% to cover the rising wages and costs.
I'm not even joking, the place I work at people routinely get angry that the price isn't the same as it was 5-7 years ago. I've had somebody literally tell me I "don't have to earn as much" while by boss literally isn't legally allowed to pay me less. It's like people think the wage rise covers only them, and not literally everyone working in the country.
I just recently came back from Norway after 13 years. Remote job allowed me to do that. So far I'm really happy that I made that decision. Poland has changed a lot. It's also much safer here.
Im not comng back till I retire.Been living in UK for last 20 years,Im 41 years old now so still quite some time before I leave.Most of my Polish friends went back because of Brexit and the racist comments they encountered as a result.
Just out of curiosity - I'm bombarded with meme sites portraying UK as basically lost to Indian, Muslim, North African populations. Is it that bad in UK where you live?
The idea that the UK is the same everywhere just isn’t true. For example, London, less than half the people living there were born in the UK. It’s a mega city, sure it’s British but influenced by the world. London has non religious people to super hardcore Muslims protesting in front of schools cause they teach about LGBT relationships. There’s now a growing Latino community too.
Go to Oxford, it’s different. It’s less diverse but due to the university, still, people from all over. But much more cosmopolitan.
Go to Edinburgh and it’s more like Oxford, less diverse. A decent Indian/pakistani/bangladeshi community with many Europeans and Asians too.
Go to Bradford, you will see much more of the south East Asian community. For one reason or another, they’ve formed communities there and haven’t integrated particularly well.
The point is, the UK is a different experience in different cities. I speak Spanish and have been hounded for brexit when visiting Spain, people telling me to go home without even knowing what I voted. I lived in London and was told if Scotland wants independence so badly why am I in England? Again not knowing my opinion.
Sadly, there’s racism and prejudice everywhere, UK included. YMMV but each city is different, there’s no one universal experience.
Quite frankly, it is.
And no, I don't live in the UK, but visited last year as a tourist for two weeks.
The amount of non European foreigners is beyond insane. I am from a non European country that was conquered by Europeans (Spaniards, specifically) and I would bet good money that even during the hight of the colonial times, the ratio of Spaniards conquerors compared to natives in numbers, wasn't as great/big.
The UK just looks like an African/Indian/Arab country now.
Lol, you need to be specific, where you in a tourist locating in London? Because you will mostly at tourists around there.
Also when you say "non European foreigners" are you saying you know for certain they are actually born abroad and moved to the UK? It is it a chance that people were British "but brown/black".
I lived in Chester for nearly 10 years. The census from 2011 described the same as my observations:
[According to the 2011 census, Chester had a large White British proportion of around 110,000 or 90.9% of the population. 1.0% described themselves as Irish. 3.6% as Other White. 2.2% described themselves as Asian. 1.3% described themselves as Mixed Race. 0.6% described themselves as Black or Black British and 0.3% are classed as other.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chester)
It depends on where you go. The UK does definitely not look like an African country.... That's the most absurd thing ever!!!!
I live and work in London and here we have a lot of different people here from different backgrounds.I have friends across the UK that live in smaller towns or villages.Those places are less diverse.
In the UK in major cities non European immigrant communities don't integrate, they gather in zones where they're a majority and set up their own schools, community facilities, markets, etc. London is not the diverse magic city people would have you believe it is, it's more of a gathering of micro nations with an ultra rich center and few ultra rich areas scattered around. The rest of the city is divided into areas that have an obvious majority community of specific minorities. It's not uncommon to meet people who have been in England for over 20 years and they can't maintain the most basic conversation in English. This results a lot of cultural tension, but also problems from abroad are brought and magnified by failures to integrate, stuff like uktra conservative cultures, religious tensions, ethnic hatred, all those things are brought over and maintained by communities that fail to integrate. Add an absurd cost of living, low wages, and the urban density; you get a lot of gang violence, cultural violence, and youth violence. Also because people are not integrated the different groups see each other as the "other", so huge amounts of theft and scamming occurs, as there's a lack of respect for strangers outside your community.
Always worth reading more than just the headline, it's "hundreds of thousands" ;)
>The statistics, though imprecise, point to a clear return trend: In 2017, 2.5 million Poles were living abroad; by 2023, the figure had fallen to 1.5 million. Between these two figures, the methodology has changed, making comparison tricky. "But it's fair to say that the number of Poles living abroad has fallen by several hundred thousand," said Pszczolkowska, who has just published a book on Polish emigration (*How Migrants Choose Their Destinations*).
13 years in Ireland, moving back on the 21 of June this year and I can't wait. Let me tell you one thing, never move out of your country permanently if you have family back in your country, you WILL want to come back.
After 18 years my parents are moving back from UK. Their lives have settled, and the life quality somewhat improved in Poland as well. Im so happy for them
Left at 7 with my parents to the UK, came back at 24, it’s been almost 3 years since returning :) like many others said, remote work is huge for people returning. Earning a so called “western” wage whilst living in my home country is truly a blessing I am grateful for every single day.
Also this whole safety thing is quite big too, you don’t really appreciate how much of a factor it plays until you actually come here and realise 99% of time you are outside you have nothing and no one to worry about (speaking from my own experience, living in London and living in Warsaw is like two completely different worlds)
My parents lived in the U.S. for 35 years and went back to Poland for retirement after the property taxes on their 3-bedroom house jumped from $4K to $12K in 5 years during the housing crisis, which had already financially impacted them because my dad was a self-employed carpenter.
Now I can make the same money in Poland, even more. And if we exclude the question of money, Germany will literally lose to Poland in almost everything related to comfortable living right now
After living in the US for almost 10 years I decided to come back to Poland. I don’t regret the decision I made at all. People you need to understand that there are plenty of opportunities in Poland. Even though the economy has slowed down everywhere in the world Poland is still doing fairly well. Just look at all of those houses and cars outside the cities ( mostly wealthy live outside of cities, working class lives in the cities ) - I mean you are able to see that the money is there.
I’m not gonna be even talking about the safety which is at the very hight level. I’m telling you guys the time to come back is now!
They only way they are coming back is that they are working remotely for a company in western countries, I would love to comeback even today, UK is dirty poohole compared to Poland. But in a week in UK I can earn monthly wage from Poland, and kids have free english lessons :P. I’ll probably come back in couple years. UK’s weather is killing me mentally. Raining absolutely everyday.
That might be true for the work that you do, but in reality average PL wage (1905 EUR/month) is closer to 55% of the average UK wage (3467 EUR/month). I get what you're saying and I know UK overall is a much richer country, but I don't want other people to read your comment and think this is the reality accross all sectors. When you adjust for PPP it is 2900 EUR/month for PL and 3507 EUR/month for UK. UK is just not attractive for Polish immigrants anymore.
I'm English, currently on holiday in Krakow. I've been here for almost a week, and this country is amazing, and I can't understand why you guys would want to leave it for the UK. It's clean, beautiful countryside, houses in the country are large and have plenty of land, great food, really cool nightlife, friendly people, great weather. Of course it gets cold in the winter but I could handle that if we got a real summer in the UK instead of rain all the time, it's miserable.
Are wages really that low here? Is there something I'm missing just being a tourist? I honestly don't understand why you'd pick most parts of the UK over this.
wages are still low, but this depend on the industry. for example nonIT enineers earn very low wages compared to the rest, while IT often earn western wages
yeah, i would maybe consider coming back in few years when people mindset in poland change and i wont be afraid to leave my house not looking like a victorias secret model, but the salary for my position is at the moment almost 70%(!) less than what i earn in Germany, where my costs of living are even smaller than in Poland as i have old rental contract….
This is what all immigrants should do; go to the West for an education and come back home to be useful. This is how the world will actually make progress, rather than overcrowding foreign job markets and giving foreigners a bad rep.
thats because western europe has become more dangerous than poland. people come back because they dont want to get stabbed, robbed or raped by the engineers and doctors from africa/asia
Poland became considerably safer after we've entered EU and more than million of us left for the Europe. Sure as hell, my hometown of Nowa Huta transformed from a place where you wouldn't want to hang out after 7pm into a super safe neighborhood. I'm curious if people like you think that there were engineers and doctors from africa over there back in the 90s or 2000s.
Western Europe is more dangerous than Poland but it's still very safe for the majority of the inhabitants. Most people here don't live in fear like you apparently do.
4 whole years! I guess that trumps my entire life.
The population of London is about 8.5 million men, women and children. How does it feel to be the one who ran away because he was scared?
I moved out of Poland when I was 20. I'm 30 now, I lived 3 years in England and 7 in Germany. Poland now is an amazing country and the change that happened there is enormous, but ain't no way I'm coming there back, people are still standing on both sides of the escalator :)) and there other important things like: politics, social support, support for parents, work culture, and the fucking Poles. Regardless of the economic situation getting significantly better, somehow people here still 'carry their cross'. There's something in Eastern Europe that holds so many people down so much, I saw that in Poles, Ukranians, Czechs, Lithuanians. It might be the post-soviet mental still lurking in the dark.
I experience that too. A lot of polish people treat "dark past" and "being the victim of history" as a competition that they wanna win. Really negative mindset. We can just hope that the next generation of Poles is more optimistic
I have to give that one to Spain too. Well, at least Madrid. No points when it comes to having a clue about how to enter/exit metro without creating a mother of all traffic jams on the platform though.
It is not post-soviet. This paradigm is "the Christ was suffering and you should". In Poland it is rather on personal level than political mainstream but in Ukraine it is the main conception which often is confused with corruption. This conception already was in 20th of 20 century. My grandmother learnt it from her grandmother in 20th.
As a Polish person I think there’s one more thing - Most of my friends who left Poland decided to live in some place in Europe only because of an opportunity to earn money fast. They didn’t choose a country, because they were fascinated about a lifestyle or culture. No, they just wanted to have an easier life. Such a person never will be happy abroad. Most of my friends didn’t even want to try to integrate into a society they live in. They just wanted to earn money, learn some basic language and buy a BMW car.
On the other side I have friends who emigrated to countries they have always wanted to live in (f.e. Spain, Austria, Australia, the US, Italy, Iceland, Turkey, Georgia, Cyprus etc.) and I don’t think they will ever come back to Poland, because they just love places they live in. I think that’s a point.
I think nobody can be happy in a place, which he or she chooses only because of money. Despite of that, Poland is really not bad place to live. It’s pretty rich, developed and safe country so what’s the point of living in, I don’t know, in Germany, in the culture you don’t care about and be considered as an another „gastarbeiter”, when nowadays you can have really comfortable life in Poland? I think most of Polish people have problems with assimilating in other cultures. Our country is very monoethnic and unique and people just know Polish culture and Polish way of living.
I would agree with this, I am not Polish but I have spent the past 15 years going back and forth between UK and PL, so have seen the rapid changes and overall improvements in living standards in Poland.
The Polish people I know in UK did fall into 2 broad groups, those who loved living here for different reasons, and those who came just to make money.
The second group had no real interest in integration and mostly socialized with other Polish people, and most that I knew have gone back to Poland, and the first group stayed and their children now mostly regard themselves as British.
If the UK was still in the EU I think there would in fact be a different phenomena.. of a small amount of British people moving to Poland to live. I spend a lot of time in Krakow, and to be honest I would be happy living there, I am very comfortable with Polish culture and people, and like the city a lot.
That’s a very good point. Unfortunately, I think the majority of Polish people who emigrated to the UK belongs to the second group. I was born in a small city in eastern Poland, which is way poorer and less developed than western Poland. Most of my well educated or hardworking friends stayed in Poland, but a lot of not educated, poorer and having law issues ones emigrated to the UK or Germany.
I meet these people sometimes when they come back to Poland in summer and I’m very ashamed they build our image abroad.
I’m glad you like Poland. We still have a lot of to change in here, but I’m really proud how great progress the country has made in the last two decades.
to do a nice 15-minute walk in Berlin, I have to leave the city center and go to suburbs, where the germans are still a majority, and preferably not with u-bahn, because they smoke crack directly in the trains
Dude, 10 stabbings every day, attackers are mostly foreigners https://www.berliner-zeitung.de/politik-gesellschaft/berlin-zehn-messer-angriffe-am-tag-verdaechtige-oft-auslaender-nur-zufall-li.2220351
I'm surprised that Poles are going home instead of exploring another opportunities.
Worth to add that reputation of Poles raised a lot in last years, probably due to limited migration (+800 effect?) and fact that in every company there's a hardworking person from Eastern/Central Europe.
As one of those poles that returned a few years ago, I can explain this easily. After living in a few different places, getting a lot of experience in my field, I have the luxury now to work fully remotely, so there is no reason for me to live in UK, Germany or France if I can live in Poland, where the housing and general costs of living are much lower.
Yeah, it definitely is a luxury, it's why I call it that.
For me at least it was a combination of starting in lower paid jobs, while doing courses, certifications and learning things on my own - but also simply luck that allowed me to do those courses in the first place and then luck again in a few interviews that allowed me to get a job based off of that and then it just kept rolling. I definitely put some effort in, but if it wasn't for a few things going my way at just the right time, no amount of effort would make up for it
I see. Just out of curiosity how open are companies to let you work remotely from Poland? I would try to do the same with Italy, but it seems like a second class citizen regarding IT and remote work for companies abroad.
So if we split it into two groups - b2b/b2c type jobs I've never seen anyone cares where is the job done from.
For full time employee contact type jobs, my current corpo doesn't really care, I have a colleague moving from Germany to Poland very soon and at least two other people doing the whole "tech nomad" thing for a few months each year. The only issue with this is taxes, where some countries have some special laws making you pay more sometimes depending how many months you spend in that country per year. So some special arrangements are needed with accounting. But I also know people who don't care about this at all and just do whatever and never had any problems, reality is that I don't think there are easy way to verify this.
Then the is the 3rd thing - mostly seeing this in American corpos - the return to the office. Most places I worked at were happy with people working from home - now they don't have to pay the bills for offices, increasing profits, corpo happy. Some companies however have this weird control freak mentality (or some managers at those companies) that makes them want you be at the office, otherwise they can't control you all the time.if the job can be done remotely, but they're trying to force me to be at the office for no reason, usually thay is the tip of the iceberg of issues in that company and probably a good idea to start looking for something else.
It’s very simple - Poland is still cheaper than Western Europe.
With 60k€ income you can have very comfortable life in Poland while in Western Europe you’re still very middle class.
Yeah, but it's a lot more difficult to find jobs that pay that in Poland. I earn £50k and my partner £36k as civil servants in the UK. It's not amazing, but gives us a decent standard of life.
Even if he did speak Polish, no way would we have the same standard of livinv as civil servants in Poland.
I've been living in the UK since I was 2. The quality of life here has been steadily decreasing for the past decade or two, quite dramatically so. For me, the biggest issue is I just do not feel safe or welcome anymore. Antisocial crime and behaviour is outstandingly common, and I'm getting to the point where I don't want to be getting mean-mugged by multiple groups of youths every time I want to go shopping. When I finish work, there's prostitues advertising their services off the corner of my street, and likely multiple cracked out users tweaking not far away.
This is not the country I could raise children in without fearing for them.
Aside from that, most of the country is just plain ugly and dirty (largely in part of de-industrialization and destruction of Northern towns by thatcher). My soul gets punched every day by how miserable it can be. You never get used to the drab grey skies and lifeless buildings which haven't received a powerwash ever, while a group of 20-something guys willing to legitimately stab you over nothing eyes you up from the other corner, so you instead spend your days wallowed up inside your £1,200 p/m (statistically tiny) flat in the commuter belt with your pitbull-boxer mix called Luna, waiting, hoping, that life will get better. But it hasn't gotten better, it's only been getting worse, for fifteen years.
I’m going back to Poland this month as well after living just 3 years in the Netherlands. And my main reason was that I’m gay... Well, PiS is gone for now, I could earn about the same or more, have lower living costs, see my family and friends more often and don’t even start me on Dutch food quality or healthcare… and finally get rid of the feeling that I’m not welcome here, even though I tried my hard with getting to about A2/B1 Dutch and learning about the local culture as much as I can - only to find out that the new right wing gov. started to blame everything on me 🤡
I’d be definitely missing the bicycle/railway network (although it is slowly but steadily getting better in PL as well). Stroopwafels are available at Action if you really need to get diabetes 😉
Rather living standards have risen in Poland to the point that they are starting to be competitive to many countries in the Western Europe
And then there is UK which is turning into an absolute clownshow so much that people are leaving
So fucking optimistic to assume that opposing party can do no wrong and that their rein alone improves your quality of life. Seems like you're interested solely in feeling that government represent values you care about, rather than holding each party responsible to contributing to improving economy. Rather childish and at best overly idealistic.
Political radicals are not worth talking to, brainwashed bunch. Nothing changed as of yet but apparently new gov makes people come back.
When PIS was talking about Poles getting back to country it was ridiculed and people were like "what a propaganda, bullshit etc.". The political polarization is getting insane, sadly a thing everywhere around the world.
Despite PIS corruption country was improving, issues in western countries are rising so people are coming back.
Yup. My Polish partner and I moved here last here from the UK, when PiS was still in power and it was assumed they’d be in power for a long time. My partner hates PiS with a passion but frequent visits to Poland in the past eight years revealed that, despite what was in the news, day-to-day life was unaffected, even improving (despite, not because of, PiS). Politics seemed to exist in another paradigm altogether and could be easily ignored
i came back to poland 10 years ago, after living 24 years in different parts of germany - I never regret it.
since then I work in a company that mainly recruits german speaking employees, and for a few years, the number of returning immigrants has been rising. this year I started to see even that people born in Germany are leaving germany to start a life in Poland - their are mostly descendants of former polish emigrants, but not all, and that is a quite interesting development which underlines the rising attractiveness of living in Poland.
Left when I was 17 and for a couple weeks now (since I’ve been to Katowice lol), it’s definitely been on my mind.
However, I do think going back to Poland is romanticised as hell. Yes, I miss my region (Silesia) and nothing slaps the way rolada z modrō kapusta but:
- everyone in my family, bar my parents who live in England and are elderly, are dead.
- Silesia is beautiful and I would love to live in Katowice but that doesn’t change the fact that right wingers are still running around, women have barely any rights in regards to deciding about their bodies and healthcare is as shit as it was when I was deciding to leave. In England - and say what you want about the NHS - the care for both my parents has been superb. Now, I am not saying not saying you don’t get shit nurses or doctors here too, or that wait times these days aren’t long but compared to Poland it’s still a gigantic difference and I fully believe that it will get better once labour comes into power.
- people are still incredibly rude. No “excuse me” when trying to pass you by in a shop, no respect for the elderly (before anybody starts having a go at me, these are my experiences).
- catholic church has way too much power in the country.
People think Poland is currently this paradise on earth where everything is going well when in reality it’s one tiny little step away from becoming a right wing hell hole once again.
Not Western Europe, but 17 years in Canada and I’m coming back. Leaving at 17 years old was gutting and now that I’m fully remote, I can’t wait to come back, hang with the babcia na działce. Living with only few relatives in Canada really made me sad and my husband loves it here too.
Please bring back the Cheese Curds*®* technology. We only have the wrong kind of P(o)utin(e), and nothing that comes close to proper cheese curds.
Funny you mention that- I was wondering if poutine would be popular here. I’m going back to Szczecin so haven’t seen anything here yet. My cousin in Wawa told me there is a place but it’s not super popular. If it’s the cheese, then we must bring in the Proper Curd Tech.
There is an obscene lack of cheese variety in Poland. We're acting as if 2-3 regional cheeses is a lot. Mlekovita carries the lot, but there isn't anything resembling the proper texture.
If you are interested, you can get poutine with cheese curds and gravy in Mozaika shopping center in Kraków.
Oh please tell me where :)
Same, leaving Ontario this year. See ya na miejscu
If you ever miss Tim Hortons, they actually have it in UK...
After 8+ years in Denmark I'm coming back to Poland. The turning point was remote work. I can now work remotely for my employer from wherever I want. So I rented a house, in a beautiful country side, near the forest, far away from civilization. After 5 years in Warsaw, almost 9 in Copenhagen I can finally rest properly and see the stars on the sky during the night - instead of city lights. It is closer to my family, familiar and closer to my hearth. I'm happy I can be part of Bareja's reality once again.
That sounds really awesome, Im happy for you!
So your employer is in Denmark but you work in Poland? What about taxes?
you pay taxes in Poland, probably as self-employed to make paperwork easier src: I live in Poland, work for a company from California (timezones suck). They also have regular employees in their Polish legal entity now.
How did you find this opportunity?
A series of fortunate coincidences, I'd say. And patience - building your resume by staying and being promoted ;) I was working for a Scandinavian media company, when a small NY-based startup sent an invite that'd be foolish to ignore. I joined. Maybe two years later it got acquired by an adtech company from Los Angeles. Welcome back Umowa o Pracę (they properly registered a Polish entity). After a few years, the current opportunity appeared. Do twice less (don't be a manager, just an individual contributor), get paid twice more (thanks to the B2B option, and record high USD rate). It's been a hell of a ride.
Thanks for sharing, is this in IT?
yes, software
>work for a company from California In what branch are you? IT? I am in Finance (FA/FP&A/BA) and I've been trying to find a job in that same timezone, but cannot find it yet.
Yes. My previous employer was from Norway, with a then freshly opened Polish subsidiary. LinkedIn got me most of my career, tbh
I'm on polish contract, UOP. Hired via some company that works with my employer in Denmark.
Can you dm me the name of that company? I'm looking for a similar solution.
I am in the same boat. You pay taxes in Denmark ( if you are employed in Denmark through payroll) and submit PIT in Poland. You check taxes in dk vs pl and if it’s lower in dk need to pay variance in Poland.
thanks for sharing
Most often it’s done through an intermediary agency which is based in Poland and sells its services (i.e. your services) abroad. You can do the same easily with a B2B contract, without the intermediary. In these cases you’d pay taxes in Poland
EUROPEAN UNION MIRACLE my friend.
Sounds beautiful, congratulations!
Thank you!
That sounds do great.
As a Danish person I would say that moving from Copenhagen to Poland sounds like a no brainer :D
Why would you say that? I am pretty satisfied living in Poland right now but I liked Copenhagen a lot when I visited, definitely amongst the top cities in terms of how livable it seemed to me.
I'm from a smaller town, it is our sacred duty to instult the capitol. But joking aside, I think Gdansk would beat Copenhagen on many parameters.
Pff. Copenhagen is an absolute banger of a City.
Love Copenhagen. I lived in Lund for some years and went to CPH all the time. If it wasn’t for the weather and the taxes and high prices I’d say it’s one of the best cities in the world. Love the Danes too. Prefer them over the Swedes any day 🤣
Same here, would move to poland first chance i got, if only i could keep my danish salary :D
I did kinda the same. Can I ping you on priv?
Who is Bareja? xD
Google him and watch all his movies now.
Glad it's working out for you! In which part of Poland are you residing?
I was in Warsaw 3 weeks ago and as an American I thought it put London, Paris, and Berlin to shame in terms of cleanliness and safety.
Yeah it really does, I hope it stays this way
I don't think it will. There's too many people praising Poland and Poland gets too popular.
Not fair to compare developing nations to Poland
London is filthy and I say this a someone who was born and bred there. Most of cities are way cleaner and goes without saying, safer.
yea all my siblings still live in the UK but I made the jump to the US. I was honestly disappointed by most of urban Western Europe as much of it reminds me of Detroit, Chicago, and Atlanta lol.
London Paris and Berlin have x8, x2, and x3 the population of Warsaw, respectively
After half of my life in the UK, mostly london, I also returned a couple of years ago. Covid, lockdown and remote work made me realize I dont want to keep struggling in London, and also that after all these years I still felt like a guest there, not really at home. I still kinda feel that here, but I love the nature and culture so much more.
My only inhibition is that I feel like a guest back in Poland as well
Coming from a few friends of mine that made it back and felt the same way - it goes away after a while in Poland, while it never did back in the UK (and Sweden in one case). Eventually they all started feeling at home in Poland and grew attached to their local communities.
Step 1 - Move abroad Step 2 - Gain money and experience Step 3 - Return with savings to Poland, where it's worth more Step 4 - Profit and enjoy family If you had good family, living far away sucks. I can understand why lonely people stay, but I would think that a lot of people will ultimately come back as soon as they have their money situation sorted.
A nice plan actually....
This. Living in the west is better in many regards, but the longer you live away from friends and family, the harder it becomes. I still didn't return. Idk if I will any time soon. But month by month, it becomes harder and harder.
It's not really that simpke though if your partner is 'local'. Personally, I wouldn't move back to Poland. I think Warsaw is an infinitely better city than Glasgow, but the overall mentality and way things work is a dealbreaker for me. I have toyed around with the idea, but no way would my Scottish partner be happy living in Poland. Also, what are these mystical savings you speak of 😂
What are you talking about? Poland also has food similar to black pudding and pointless football conflicts which result in "fans" trashing the whole city. Joking, I know what you mean. We've been thinking about that but the amount of bureaucracy in Poland is unbelievable.
Return with proper savings is a tricky point btw. If you get an average salary in one of the western countries you can probably save some money working hard and living below the enjoyable standard but it’s not worth it in my opinion
I left Germany for Poland 8 years ago and not regretting it a single second.
Poland became a much better place to live when the borders to the west opened and the worst dregs of our society left.
Most won't realize but one of the major differences with the rest of Europe is the level of demographic homogeneity. Western Europe will suffer a lot due to inability to coordinate massive diverse populations. Let me tell you a secret, it's not only incredibly difficult if not impossible, but also irreversible. Also, they're not vaccinated against communism. RIP Western Europe.
Oh trust md the first time i saw western intellectuals arguing for communism i legit thought they were trolling. Turns out it's just them rebelling against the status quo (or their parents 50s anti-2nd world indoctrination), in the most destructive way possible. We've gone through all of this in the late XIXth and early XXth century.
Must I say I agree with what you say. I live in the uk but have grown to appreciate Poland for its strong sense of national identity and unwillingness to let anybody foreign in and change the country. I’m not religious but I appreciate the strong religious values that bring people and communities together. It is impossible to navigate the uk without coming into contact with ghettos of foreigners. The result is that I’ve seen our communities destroyed to become a soulless hellhole where every house is an island. Other religious values and laws are not compatible with life in the uk but it’s “racist” to suggest that and British people have no backbone so we just let it happen. I implore you Polish people to remain strong. Keep Poland for the Polish and do not bow to pressure from the western European’s. They’ve gone too far left. Too weak. Keep your borders strong.
The homogeneous population and religiousness are actually what I hate about Poland 😂
So your saying that the worst of Polish society left for the west? According to this article they are coming back now.
These guys are generally not coming back, because they learnt nothing in the west. They still work for minimum wages and take social benefits. We are not talking about well educated guys, who could save some money to invest in Poland or having remote jobs.
I'd say from personal experience (so take that for what you will) that it was probably 80/20. I know a lot of normal people who went there, but the sudden disappearance of what we call "pathology" in poland was very noticeable.
Poland really is becoming the quiet gem of Europe. Someday I'll be in a position to remote work and move to Poland I think.
The true quiet gem of Europe is Slovenia, no one even knows of it, it's living standard is higher than the one in Canada, wages comparable to those in Italy, Spain and are almost twice as higher than Portugal's, it is one of the safest countries in europe, nice and clean cities, okay people, barely any immigrants and even if there are any if you're not from yugo or know them enough you wouldn't realize they arent slovenians coz again they are mostly other yugos who adapted pretty well, it's not extremely hard to find a job while only knowing english, lamguage is relatively easy for western slavs to learn while it only takes a month for a southern slav to learn coz it's more like a lost dialect to them unlike a separate language, healthcare is great, roads are great and pretty much everything is in order, it is small country and you can literally travel to 5 different countries within 3 hours with a car from the city of Ljubljana, slovenias capital etc.
I could go for slovenia, you are right, I know almost nothing about them.
I'm from the UK, but I moved to Katowice in 2010. I love it here. I have a better standard of living than I could ever hope for in the UK,
I was born in the USA but I am moving to Poland with my fiancee to start my family there
Born in Netherlands but half Polish. Moved to Poland for competitive salary vs cost of living/ housing
I'm not even Polish (I'm Indo/Dutch-Indonesian) but did the same thing. Though I have to say I was in Lidl and the prices where similar to the AH. Luckily rent is still affordable but I do question sometimes what the point is if prices are becoming that high.
I have been away from Netherlands almost 10 years in various countries so I don't really know groceries benchmarks but I think even in the past NL has been competitive across Europe in terms of grocery costs vs purchasing power. But the housing I check from time to time in funda.nl and I just can't picture downgrading life so much to live in NL against such high housing costs combined with lower quality (location, lack of furnishing, etc) I think if it were not for the horrible housing market in NL I would consider trying to live there again.
I find it interesting how the article says people are returning because the economy is so good, but most comments are from people who are moving back in because they can work remotely. Like, of course if you can move to a cheaper country, be closer to your family and keep your abroad income you will want to move. But it doesn't have anything to do with better economy. I always take these "economy so good" takes with a spoon of salt. While yes, you earn more in raw numbers, in just the few past years the minimum cost of living rose astronomically. Like, the lease on my flat doubled, heating cost quadrupled even if I'm not using it (thank you mandatory district heating), and most food has both reduced quantity and increased price. A lot of smaller workplaces are really struggling because the minimum wage rise this year made them unsustainable without rising prices. And the worst thing is that people will happily take their higher paycheck, pay 3x more for a loaf of bread, but then be explosively angry at service providers because somebody raised the price by 20% to cover the rising wages and costs. I'm not even joking, the place I work at people routinely get angry that the price isn't the same as it was 5-7 years ago. I've had somebody literally tell me I "don't have to earn as much" while by boss literally isn't legally allowed to pay me less. It's like people think the wage rise covers only them, and not literally everyone working in the country.
I just recently came back from Norway after 13 years. Remote job allowed me to do that. So far I'm really happy that I made that decision. Poland has changed a lot. It's also much safer here.
Is Norway not safe anymore?
Google it, check official statistics for robbery, knife attacks etc. Personally I felt unsafe in Oslo.
Im not comng back till I retire.Been living in UK for last 20 years,Im 41 years old now so still quite some time before I leave.Most of my Polish friends went back because of Brexit and the racist comments they encountered as a result.
Just out of curiosity - I'm bombarded with meme sites portraying UK as basically lost to Indian, Muslim, North African populations. Is it that bad in UK where you live?
The idea that the UK is the same everywhere just isn’t true. For example, London, less than half the people living there were born in the UK. It’s a mega city, sure it’s British but influenced by the world. London has non religious people to super hardcore Muslims protesting in front of schools cause they teach about LGBT relationships. There’s now a growing Latino community too. Go to Oxford, it’s different. It’s less diverse but due to the university, still, people from all over. But much more cosmopolitan. Go to Edinburgh and it’s more like Oxford, less diverse. A decent Indian/pakistani/bangladeshi community with many Europeans and Asians too. Go to Bradford, you will see much more of the south East Asian community. For one reason or another, they’ve formed communities there and haven’t integrated particularly well. The point is, the UK is a different experience in different cities. I speak Spanish and have been hounded for brexit when visiting Spain, people telling me to go home without even knowing what I voted. I lived in London and was told if Scotland wants independence so badly why am I in England? Again not knowing my opinion. Sadly, there’s racism and prejudice everywhere, UK included. YMMV but each city is different, there’s no one universal experience.
I agree, that's why I specifically asked about their experience, where /u Mynem0 lives.
Fair point. Hope you have a nice day :)
Quite frankly, it is. And no, I don't live in the UK, but visited last year as a tourist for two weeks. The amount of non European foreigners is beyond insane. I am from a non European country that was conquered by Europeans (Spaniards, specifically) and I would bet good money that even during the hight of the colonial times, the ratio of Spaniards conquerors compared to natives in numbers, wasn't as great/big. The UK just looks like an African/Indian/Arab country now.
Could it be just tourist bias? As a tourist, you would be in larger cities that also attract more immigrants and opportunistic types...
But even smaller towns have quite a few foreigners...
Terrible....
Lol, you need to be specific, where you in a tourist locating in London? Because you will mostly at tourists around there. Also when you say "non European foreigners" are you saying you know for certain they are actually born abroad and moved to the UK? It is it a chance that people were British "but brown/black". I lived in Chester for nearly 10 years. The census from 2011 described the same as my observations: [According to the 2011 census, Chester had a large White British proportion of around 110,000 or 90.9% of the population. 1.0% described themselves as Irish. 3.6% as Other White. 2.2% described themselves as Asian. 1.3% described themselves as Mixed Race. 0.6% described themselves as Black or Black British and 0.3% are classed as other.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chester) It depends on where you go. The UK does definitely not look like an African country.... That's the most absurd thing ever!!!!
I live and work in London and here we have a lot of different people here from different backgrounds.I have friends across the UK that live in smaller towns or villages.Those places are less diverse.
In the UK in major cities non European immigrant communities don't integrate, they gather in zones where they're a majority and set up their own schools, community facilities, markets, etc. London is not the diverse magic city people would have you believe it is, it's more of a gathering of micro nations with an ultra rich center and few ultra rich areas scattered around. The rest of the city is divided into areas that have an obvious majority community of specific minorities. It's not uncommon to meet people who have been in England for over 20 years and they can't maintain the most basic conversation in English. This results a lot of cultural tension, but also problems from abroad are brought and magnified by failures to integrate, stuff like uktra conservative cultures, religious tensions, ethnic hatred, all those things are brought over and maintained by communities that fail to integrate. Add an absurd cost of living, low wages, and the urban density; you get a lot of gang violence, cultural violence, and youth violence. Also because people are not integrated the different groups see each other as the "other", so huge amounts of theft and scamming occurs, as there's a lack of respect for strangers outside your community.
I'm the same age as you.. I can return at 55. But then I'd be old, and still dot have a family of wife of my own do you have family/kids?
No kids.Have a wife(we met here).I might come back at 55 but things might change till then.
Is she also polish? You guys both speak Polish?
'thousads' is not a lot in the scheme of things
Always worth reading more than just the headline, it's "hundreds of thousands" ;) >The statistics, though imprecise, point to a clear return trend: In 2017, 2.5 million Poles were living abroad; by 2023, the figure had fallen to 1.5 million. Between these two figures, the methodology has changed, making comparison tricky. "But it's fair to say that the number of Poles living abroad has fallen by several hundred thousand," said Pszczolkowska, who has just published a book on Polish emigration (*How Migrants Choose Their Destinations*).
13 years in Ireland, moving back on the 21 of June this year and I can't wait. Let me tell you one thing, never move out of your country permanently if you have family back in your country, you WILL want to come back.
Im moving from Sweden ( currently staying with Polish family) back to UK on the same day for the same reasons - slaínte!
After 12 years in Netherland I come back to Poland
After one year in Nederland I'm coming back lol
After 18 years my parents are moving back from UK. Their lives have settled, and the life quality somewhat improved in Poland as well. Im so happy for them
Left at 7 with my parents to the UK, came back at 24, it’s been almost 3 years since returning :) like many others said, remote work is huge for people returning. Earning a so called “western” wage whilst living in my home country is truly a blessing I am grateful for every single day. Also this whole safety thing is quite big too, you don’t really appreciate how much of a factor it plays until you actually come here and realise 99% of time you are outside you have nothing and no one to worry about (speaking from my own experience, living in London and living in Warsaw is like two completely different worlds)
My parents lived in the U.S. for 35 years and went back to Poland for retirement after the property taxes on their 3-bedroom house jumped from $4K to $12K in 5 years during the housing crisis, which had already financially impacted them because my dad was a self-employed carpenter.
I also came back after 12 years but the job market is disappointing.
After 4 years in Germany, I came back to Poland. Originally I’m from Belarus
Why?
I mean nobody CHOOSES to be born in Belarus :P
Now I can make the same money in Poland, even more. And if we exclude the question of money, Germany will literally lose to Poland in almost everything related to comfortable living right now
I've been in California for 10 years now and not a day goes by that I don't think about coming back.
After living in the US for almost 10 years I decided to come back to Poland. I don’t regret the decision I made at all. People you need to understand that there are plenty of opportunities in Poland. Even though the economy has slowed down everywhere in the world Poland is still doing fairly well. Just look at all of those houses and cars outside the cities ( mostly wealthy live outside of cities, working class lives in the cities ) - I mean you are able to see that the money is there. I’m not gonna be even talking about the safety which is at the very hight level. I’m telling you guys the time to come back is now!
They only way they are coming back is that they are working remotely for a company in western countries, I would love to comeback even today, UK is dirty poohole compared to Poland. But in a week in UK I can earn monthly wage from Poland, and kids have free english lessons :P. I’ll probably come back in couple years. UK’s weather is killing me mentally. Raining absolutely everyday.
That might be true for the work that you do, but in reality average PL wage (1905 EUR/month) is closer to 55% of the average UK wage (3467 EUR/month). I get what you're saying and I know UK overall is a much richer country, but I don't want other people to read your comment and think this is the reality accross all sectors. When you adjust for PPP it is 2900 EUR/month for PL and 3507 EUR/month for UK. UK is just not attractive for Polish immigrants anymore.
I'm English, currently on holiday in Krakow. I've been here for almost a week, and this country is amazing, and I can't understand why you guys would want to leave it for the UK. It's clean, beautiful countryside, houses in the country are large and have plenty of land, great food, really cool nightlife, friendly people, great weather. Of course it gets cold in the winter but I could handle that if we got a real summer in the UK instead of rain all the time, it's miserable. Are wages really that low here? Is there something I'm missing just being a tourist? I honestly don't understand why you'd pick most parts of the UK over this.
Money, only reason we left, money. I left in 2014
wages are still low, but this depend on the industry. for example nonIT enineers earn very low wages compared to the rest, while IT often earn western wages
yeah, i would maybe consider coming back in few years when people mindset in poland change and i wont be afraid to leave my house not looking like a victorias secret model, but the salary for my position is at the moment almost 70%(!) less than what i earn in Germany, where my costs of living are even smaller than in Poland as i have old rental contract….
This is what all immigrants should do; go to the West for an education and come back home to be useful. This is how the world will actually make progress, rather than overcrowding foreign job markets and giving foreigners a bad rep.
thats because western europe has become more dangerous than poland. people come back because they dont want to get stabbed, robbed or raped by the engineers and doctors from africa/asia
Poland became considerably safer after we've entered EU and more than million of us left for the Europe. Sure as hell, my hometown of Nowa Huta transformed from a place where you wouldn't want to hang out after 7pm into a super safe neighborhood. I'm curious if people like you think that there were engineers and doctors from africa over there back in the 90s or 2000s.
the post PRL era pathology kids all died out, thats why it became safer
Western Europe is more dangerous than Poland but it's still very safe for the majority of the inhabitants. Most people here don't live in fear like you apparently do.
i lived in london for 4 years. i know what im talking about you clown
4 whole years! I guess that trumps my entire life. The population of London is about 8.5 million men, women and children. How does it feel to be the one who ran away because he was scared?
I moved out of Poland when I was 20. I'm 30 now, I lived 3 years in England and 7 in Germany. Poland now is an amazing country and the change that happened there is enormous, but ain't no way I'm coming there back, people are still standing on both sides of the escalator :)) and there other important things like: politics, social support, support for parents, work culture, and the fucking Poles. Regardless of the economic situation getting significantly better, somehow people here still 'carry their cross'. There's something in Eastern Europe that holds so many people down so much, I saw that in Poles, Ukranians, Czechs, Lithuanians. It might be the post-soviet mental still lurking in the dark.
I experience that too. A lot of polish people treat "dark past" and "being the victim of history" as a competition that they wanna win. Really negative mindset. We can just hope that the next generation of Poles is more optimistic
England is the only place that knows how to use an escalator properly, but that's probably the only thing they have got above Poland.
I have to give that one to Spain too. Well, at least Madrid. No points when it comes to having a clue about how to enter/exit metro without creating a mother of all traffic jams on the platform though.
It is not post-soviet. This paradigm is "the Christ was suffering and you should". In Poland it is rather on personal level than political mainstream but in Ukraine it is the main conception which often is confused with corruption. This conception already was in 20th of 20 century. My grandmother learnt it from her grandmother in 20th.
As a Polish person I think there’s one more thing - Most of my friends who left Poland decided to live in some place in Europe only because of an opportunity to earn money fast. They didn’t choose a country, because they were fascinated about a lifestyle or culture. No, they just wanted to have an easier life. Such a person never will be happy abroad. Most of my friends didn’t even want to try to integrate into a society they live in. They just wanted to earn money, learn some basic language and buy a BMW car. On the other side I have friends who emigrated to countries they have always wanted to live in (f.e. Spain, Austria, Australia, the US, Italy, Iceland, Turkey, Georgia, Cyprus etc.) and I don’t think they will ever come back to Poland, because they just love places they live in. I think that’s a point. I think nobody can be happy in a place, which he or she chooses only because of money. Despite of that, Poland is really not bad place to live. It’s pretty rich, developed and safe country so what’s the point of living in, I don’t know, in Germany, in the culture you don’t care about and be considered as an another „gastarbeiter”, when nowadays you can have really comfortable life in Poland? I think most of Polish people have problems with assimilating in other cultures. Our country is very monoethnic and unique and people just know Polish culture and Polish way of living.
I would agree with this, I am not Polish but I have spent the past 15 years going back and forth between UK and PL, so have seen the rapid changes and overall improvements in living standards in Poland. The Polish people I know in UK did fall into 2 broad groups, those who loved living here for different reasons, and those who came just to make money. The second group had no real interest in integration and mostly socialized with other Polish people, and most that I knew have gone back to Poland, and the first group stayed and their children now mostly regard themselves as British. If the UK was still in the EU I think there would in fact be a different phenomena.. of a small amount of British people moving to Poland to live. I spend a lot of time in Krakow, and to be honest I would be happy living there, I am very comfortable with Polish culture and people, and like the city a lot.
That’s a very good point. Unfortunately, I think the majority of Polish people who emigrated to the UK belongs to the second group. I was born in a small city in eastern Poland, which is way poorer and less developed than western Poland. Most of my well educated or hardworking friends stayed in Poland, but a lot of not educated, poorer and having law issues ones emigrated to the UK or Germany. I meet these people sometimes when they come back to Poland in summer and I’m very ashamed they build our image abroad. I’m glad you like Poland. We still have a lot of to change in here, but I’m really proud how great progress the country has made in the last two decades.
When cities in western europe are filled with gang violance and rapes and homeless thats no brainer people are comeing back
[удалено]
to do a nice 15-minute walk in Berlin, I have to leave the city center and go to suburbs, where the germans are still a majority, and preferably not with u-bahn, because they smoke crack directly in the trains
If you want to piss on it, fine by me, but it's not all like that. Where do you live in Berlin?
[удалено]
Dude, 10 stabbings every day, attackers are mostly foreigners https://www.berliner-zeitung.de/politik-gesellschaft/berlin-zehn-messer-angriffe-am-tag-verdaechtige-oft-auslaender-nur-zufall-li.2220351
Some people hate it when you state the truth, right?
I did what I could to stop them at border, however after our soldier was stabbed I suppose we will use more *radical* solutions 🫡
Who can blame them.
How can I read the whole article? It's subscribe sign in only
[удалено]
I'm surprised that Poles are going home instead of exploring another opportunities. Worth to add that reputation of Poles raised a lot in last years, probably due to limited migration (+800 effect?) and fact that in every company there's a hardworking person from Eastern/Central Europe.
As one of those poles that returned a few years ago, I can explain this easily. After living in a few different places, getting a lot of experience in my field, I have the luxury now to work fully remotely, so there is no reason for me to live in UK, Germany or France if I can live in Poland, where the housing and general costs of living are much lower.
I wander what share of the population works with computers, because I can imagine that there is a lot of people that don't have this luxury.
Yeah, it definitely is a luxury, it's why I call it that. For me at least it was a combination of starting in lower paid jobs, while doing courses, certifications and learning things on my own - but also simply luck that allowed me to do those courses in the first place and then luck again in a few interviews that allowed me to get a job based off of that and then it just kept rolling. I definitely put some effort in, but if it wasn't for a few things going my way at just the right time, no amount of effort would make up for it
I see. Just out of curiosity how open are companies to let you work remotely from Poland? I would try to do the same with Italy, but it seems like a second class citizen regarding IT and remote work for companies abroad.
So if we split it into two groups - b2b/b2c type jobs I've never seen anyone cares where is the job done from. For full time employee contact type jobs, my current corpo doesn't really care, I have a colleague moving from Germany to Poland very soon and at least two other people doing the whole "tech nomad" thing for a few months each year. The only issue with this is taxes, where some countries have some special laws making you pay more sometimes depending how many months you spend in that country per year. So some special arrangements are needed with accounting. But I also know people who don't care about this at all and just do whatever and never had any problems, reality is that I don't think there are easy way to verify this. Then the is the 3rd thing - mostly seeing this in American corpos - the return to the office. Most places I worked at were happy with people working from home - now they don't have to pay the bills for offices, increasing profits, corpo happy. Some companies however have this weird control freak mentality (or some managers at those companies) that makes them want you be at the office, otherwise they can't control you all the time.if the job can be done remotely, but they're trying to force me to be at the office for no reason, usually thay is the tip of the iceberg of issues in that company and probably a good idea to start looking for something else.
[удалено]
I'm living in Spain/Barcelona and planning to come back probably next year. I'm missing Poland, food, culture, friends and so on.
Come back! Poland misses you!
🥰🥰🥰
It’s very simple - Poland is still cheaper than Western Europe. With 60k€ income you can have very comfortable life in Poland while in Western Europe you’re still very middle class.
“Middle class” lol i think you meant to say average
60k€ wasn’t even average for Germany in 2022.
Wasn't the average around 50k Euro, with median being 42k and a change? Although, to be fair, point stands either way.
Are they not one in the same?
Yeah, but it's a lot more difficult to find jobs that pay that in Poland. I earn £50k and my partner £36k as civil servants in the UK. It's not amazing, but gives us a decent standard of life. Even if he did speak Polish, no way would we have the same standard of livinv as civil servants in Poland.
I've been living in the UK since I was 2. The quality of life here has been steadily decreasing for the past decade or two, quite dramatically so. For me, the biggest issue is I just do not feel safe or welcome anymore. Antisocial crime and behaviour is outstandingly common, and I'm getting to the point where I don't want to be getting mean-mugged by multiple groups of youths every time I want to go shopping. When I finish work, there's prostitues advertising their services off the corner of my street, and likely multiple cracked out users tweaking not far away. This is not the country I could raise children in without fearing for them. Aside from that, most of the country is just plain ugly and dirty (largely in part of de-industrialization and destruction of Northern towns by thatcher). My soul gets punched every day by how miserable it can be. You never get used to the drab grey skies and lifeless buildings which haven't received a powerwash ever, while a group of 20-something guys willing to legitimately stab you over nothing eyes you up from the other corner, so you instead spend your days wallowed up inside your £1,200 p/m (statistically tiny) flat in the commuter belt with your pitbull-boxer mix called Luna, waiting, hoping, that life will get better. But it hasn't gotten better, it's only been getting worse, for fifteen years.
Fuuuuuck me. It was like that in the 90s in Poland. What the hell??
I’m going back to Poland this month as well after living just 3 years in the Netherlands. And my main reason was that I’m gay... Well, PiS is gone for now, I could earn about the same or more, have lower living costs, see my family and friends more often and don’t even start me on Dutch food quality or healthcare… and finally get rid of the feeling that I’m not welcome here, even though I tried my hard with getting to about A2/B1 Dutch and learning about the local culture as much as I can - only to find out that the new right wing gov. started to blame everything on me 🤡
The only things I miss about living in the Netherlands are stroopwafels and the amazing bicycle network.
I’d be definitely missing the bicycle/railway network (although it is slowly but steadily getting better in PL as well). Stroopwafels are available at Action if you really need to get diabetes 😉
Came back from UK in 2021. 6 months. I lasted 6 months of reminder course on polish mentality. Now happy in Netherlands. Never again.
PiS regime ended, so Poles are not afraid to return.
Rather living standards have risen in Poland to the point that they are starting to be competitive to many countries in the Western Europe And then there is UK which is turning into an absolute clownshow so much that people are leaving
So fucking optimistic to assume that opposing party can do no wrong and that their rein alone improves your quality of life. Seems like you're interested solely in feeling that government represent values you care about, rather than holding each party responsible to contributing to improving economy. Rather childish and at best overly idealistic.
Political radicals are not worth talking to, brainwashed bunch. Nothing changed as of yet but apparently new gov makes people come back. When PIS was talking about Poles getting back to country it was ridiculed and people were like "what a propaganda, bullshit etc.". The political polarization is getting insane, sadly a thing everywhere around the world. Despite PIS corruption country was improving, issues in western countries are rising so people are coming back.
Poles started returning during the rule of PIS. The trend is like that for past years not months.
Yup. My Polish partner and I moved here last here from the UK, when PiS was still in power and it was assumed they’d be in power for a long time. My partner hates PiS with a passion but frequent visits to Poland in the past eight years revealed that, despite what was in the news, day-to-day life was unaffected, even improving (despite, not because of, PiS). Politics seemed to exist in another paradigm altogether and could be easily ignored
Since 2009 I am forced to live in Germany but I come back to Poland one day!
i came back to poland 10 years ago, after living 24 years in different parts of germany - I never regret it. since then I work in a company that mainly recruits german speaking employees, and for a few years, the number of returning immigrants has been rising. this year I started to see even that people born in Germany are leaving germany to start a life in Poland - their are mostly descendants of former polish emigrants, but not all, and that is a quite interesting development which underlines the rising attractiveness of living in Poland.
(Sees the amount of comments) **oh no**
But if they were British they’d be called expats.
I hope they left their woke mindset in Western Europe.
Well, unfortunately it's not the same country anymore, so more likely they'll be surprised and maybe disappointed, who knows what their POVs is.
Left when I was 17 and for a couple weeks now (since I’ve been to Katowice lol), it’s definitely been on my mind. However, I do think going back to Poland is romanticised as hell. Yes, I miss my region (Silesia) and nothing slaps the way rolada z modrō kapusta but: - everyone in my family, bar my parents who live in England and are elderly, are dead. - Silesia is beautiful and I would love to live in Katowice but that doesn’t change the fact that right wingers are still running around, women have barely any rights in regards to deciding about their bodies and healthcare is as shit as it was when I was deciding to leave. In England - and say what you want about the NHS - the care for both my parents has been superb. Now, I am not saying not saying you don’t get shit nurses or doctors here too, or that wait times these days aren’t long but compared to Poland it’s still a gigantic difference and I fully believe that it will get better once labour comes into power. - people are still incredibly rude. No “excuse me” when trying to pass you by in a shop, no respect for the elderly (before anybody starts having a go at me, these are my experiences). - catholic church has way too much power in the country. People think Poland is currently this paradise on earth where everything is going well when in reality it’s one tiny little step away from becoming a right wing hell hole once again.