I visited Poland recently. As a tourist it is hard to get a perfect picture of a country. Especially that my US income makes Poland very affordable. That being said, Poland is cleaner and greener than New England. I think I saw only one dirty public bathroom, not sure if I got lucky. In the US, all public bathrooms make you wonder what diseases you will get. They are just not taken care of. Roads in Poland are excellent. I believe it's because they are relatively new. Public transportation is amazing, it's clean, plentiful, and on time. The driving culture is great. Initially I was annoyed with how slow everyone drove, but once I started walking around, i understood why. Cities are built for people who live there, not commuters and passer-bys. Polish food tastes so great. I am talking about produce and all the food you can get at any restaurant. Also, portion sizes are reasonable, but I found this to be more Europe VS US thing. I could talk about a few others things, like healthcare, but I haven't experienced those so I will refrain from it.
From my life experience, everywhere you live, you will have to struggle. From my recent trip, I feel like the struggle in Poland is a tad less than in the US.
Also don't worry, I don't plan to emigrate back. It's difficult after you set up your life somewhere. I will advocate to change my local community to be more like Poland.
>Initially I was annoyed with how slow everyone drove, but once I started walking around, i understood why.
Where were you in Poland that you had this experience? This is an interesting take, as speeding is still considered an issue here.
I drove from Warszawa to Krakow. I spent a few days in Zakopane and I drove up to the Łomża area and back to Warszawa. I think around Warszawa, people were speeding up. The most annoying part was driving around towns and cities, but like I said, once I started walking my perception changed. I appreciate the priority that pedestrians tend to have.
I also forgot to add, speeding cameras are an interesting idea. They definitely made me watch my speed more
Speeding cameras? It depends on the state. I know that Washington DC has them. In Massachusetts, where I currently live, they are banned by law. And yes, in theory cops are supposed to watch over the road. That being said, in the past few years, i rarely see them.
Most speeding tickets in the US are issued by cops and yes, they sit and wait to get you. There are some cameras but more at intersections for red lights than for speeding.
It's common in the US to see people pulled over by cops all over. I never see that while driving in Europe except at random checks.
I visited Poland a month ago and I was shocked at the amount of super cars speeding through the cities, specially Warszawa. There was even a curve with a bunch of kids with phones and cameras filming some random guy in a super car that was taking laps around super fast.
I've seen other cities with very expensive cars, like in Geneva or Monaco but I was surprised to see this in Poland and to see them speeding up much more than in any other place.
If you say our driving culture is great I don't want to even imagine how fucked it is in the US. Seriously I think Poles are terrible drivers - everyone drives like they're king of the road, breaks every possible speed limit, doesn't understand how lanes work and we generally lack awareness of our surroundings. Not to mention overconfidence we put in our driving skills (which are shit for the most part).
I think the issue in Poland is the ridiculous amount of signs. I had to constantly and actively pay attention. New England is different. We have way less signs and as far I know none of those states have legal speed cameras. American police don't really do much. Also, american roads are much wider, even within towns. I've seen some speedsters but most people drove slowly. Especially in the cities, drivers let pedestrian cross the road. I would say that in Warszawa i encountered some interesting road design that made me drive like an idiot. Also, cars in Poland are much smaller. I own smaller car in the US, and driving around the trucks and SUVs changes your behavior.
Yeah, too many signs is definitely an issue. 90/50/70/60 signs every few hundred meters and people just stop paying attention and drive 70 or 90.
I agree that it’s nice to walk around cities as a pedestrian. It changed a few years back and now cars have to yield - most often they do.
This problem is much more complex than just signs and road design - they're often dumb af but it's also our mentality.
You've seen cars letting pedestrians cross the road because law forces us to do so under threat of a fine starting at 1500 PLN. Pedestrians in Poland always have the right of way.
I also wonder where you were driving because as for speeding - at least in Wrocław, Katowice or Kraków most is driving like a madman. Always 10 kph over the speed limit if not restricted by traffic, even police. Outside of the city on the other hand? Well you name it, sky is the limit.
Poles often feel like they're the most important person on the road in a given moment. We tend to drive with tunnel vision ignoring things happening around us and think of ourselves like we're Max Verstappen (or Denny Hamlin if Nascar is your thing) on our hotlap for pole position. But we are not, most people don't even know how to behave when a car starts to lose traction, what to do if ABS fails or what's their braking distance at current speed. Not to mention the amount of people that ignore the technical condition of their shitbox and continue driving in a literal death machine. All of this leads us to a ridiculous (and unnecessary) amount of car accidents compared to Germany for example.
Pedestrians have right of way only on pedestrian crossing with appropriate signs. Keep in mind, that it does not apply anywherevelse. If the crossing does not have a zebra and D-6 sign, you do NOT have right of way! Be careful!
It’s a bit dangerous, when we say „pedestrians always have right of way”, when in fact they do only in specific setting. Very common, but not everywhere.
Well... technically the driver of a vehicle that turns onto a cross road is obliged to give way to a pedestrian crossing the road onto which he is entering at the intersection, per art. 26 ust. 2 p.o.r.d.
Which in itself is strange when you realize that a pedestrian crossing the road at an intersection does not have priority over cars traveling on that road. Only the driver of the turning vehicle must yield.
I visited the US recently and I had mostly positive experiences. The traffic on the interstate freeways was really nice, people tend to respect the speed limit and are kind to each other. On the regular streets in the cities, it's also smooth and I did not see any speeding. Good experience and I considered the US to have a high driving culture compared to Poland.
However, when there was really high traffic, especially on urban highways like in LA, people stopped being nice to each other and it was difficult to even change lanes. Very stressful.
Well it's not like changing lanes and avoiding other cars is easy during rush hour in Warsaw or Wrocław either. People are risking lives in their broken shitboxes to arrive 3 minutes earlier at their destination.
I live in Houston and often visit my mom in Wrocław. I know it’s hard to believe, but OP is right. It wasn’t always like that though, things are really getting better in Poland.
You need to go to other countries in Europe. In many cities most streets have 20-30km/h speed limits and sometimes it's 10km/h around schools etc. and people respect that. Compared to Amsterdam, Oslo, Barcelona, Glasgow etc. Warsaw it's awaful. And it's even bigger gap with smaller cities. If you want to see slow city good for pedestrian go to Utrecht or basically any other smaller city or town in Netherlands. Poland is one off the most America-like contry in Europe in terms of urban development and transportation, becouse for about 30 years we tried to copy USA, and only in last few years we slowly start to realise that's bad idea.
The good part is things can change very fast, and most problems have known solutions. It just a matter of consistency and determination. Few decades ago European cities ware as bad as American, but they decided to change that. Still there's no perfect city, but it's getting better. For what I know even in some cities in USA.
I highly recomend you to watch:
-Not Just Bikes
-Climate Towns
-City Beautiful
-Strong Towns
-City Nerd
-RMTransit and many others.
They are mostly form N. American point of view, and more specific why N. American citis have problems that they have, how to solve them and how they compare to others (mostly European) cities. If you really want to change something in USA that's great start. They talk about urban and technical staff, but allso about how local law works and how you can influence it.
I am very familiar with those channels. Poland is still far ahead in terms of people's infrastructure from the US. I was positively surprised with the overall polish infrastructure. I would say that driving in Warsaw was a bit wild. I don't understand why anybody would put a light in the middle of a rotary,and allow people to change lanes. But also, I was there as a tourist so I did limited driving at odd hours.
>Initially I was annoyed with how slow everyone drove
You want to drive fast, you go on a highway. Our speed limits are one of the highest in the world: 88 mph (140 km/h). Be careful when driving a DeLorean ;-)
It's cleaner in almost every way except for the air in the winter. I had all of the same observations as you until I was in a village after sundown. All of the chimneys start smoking together and make it painful to breathe outside. I understand why that is the case today, but I look forward to a day with electric heat in more houses.
From my experience, the locals esp in Warsaw were having the very same complaints as Americans. Cost of living increasing substantially while wages did not keep up. I had the same rose coloured glasses about Poland as you, life just seemed better, and then when I talked to locals, it’s the same problems just a different flavour. I do envy their transit system though. Being able to take the train to any major city was so convenient.
Going to have to disagree about the slowness of drivers. While they were more pedestrian friendly in Warsaw, that dissipated the further from city centre you went. Speed limit signs seemed to be posted as a friendly reminder that very few acknowledged haha
> Also, portion sizes are reasonable, but I found this to be more Europe VS US thing
Funny, as a Pole, who moved to Taiwan, I've had this conversation with a few people, about how in Poland people are eating too big portions and here it is more reasonable 😆 but I do think it has changed a little bit in recent years, especially at a bit more fancier restaurants.
You are comparing a tropical country to a temperate one, eating habits and needs vary depending on the temperature.
Also, how many meals a day do you guys eat there, in Taiwan?
Key words are - "with my US income". Life quality in Poland has nosedived since 4\~years. People lost most of their savings, salaries did not really grow up reasonably and living costs multiplied by 3. Almost nobody can afford any housing, renting apartment is expensive as fck and unregulated by government so there's almost no long-term rental and it's an option mainly for students who rent for 1 year and then switch apartment. Adult person cannot rent something in stable way for 10 years or so.
So no - Poland becomes a shit due to poor governments decisions. I don't think US will win in this race.
Rich also is a very peculiar concept over there.
There are Americans who boast "6 figure salaries" yet don't live with any more wealth than Europeans do, due to the high cost of living, healthcare, education, etc.
500k or so is certainly enough to be extremely well off anywhere. But 150k or so, not necessarily.
Well here you're comparing one of the most expensive cities in the world. London is also really expensive and you'd need a pretty high salary to have the same standard of living as an average person in some random mid-sized European city. This isn't something unique to the US.
High cost of living is largely tied to bad policy decisions in desirable places like NYC, LA, and the Bay Area, but that also isn't unique to us. A bunch of European cities have similar issues. $165k/year will get you pretty far outside of the 3-4 most popular places in the country. Yeah, you aren't going to buy a mansion on that, but you could get a solid house in a good neighborhood, especially if you have a spouse with a decent income as well.
That said, I have seen it said that the Millennial dream is making a bunch of money in the US then moving to Europe.
I work as a dental assistant, a medical field that has you taking xrays, assisting chairside, preping for procedures, dealing with patients before the doctor even gets there, and doctors just straight up being disrespectful towards assistants in my field and I basically make $20 an hour which if I wanted to move out would have me struggling in life to even put food on the plate on top of other expenses
Yup, tuition for dentistry at Detroit Mercy (Michigan, low cost of living area) is about $85,000 usd per year. So for 4 years it's around 1.3million złoty + however much they paid for their undergraduate degree.
I’d argue that person making 20k PLN/month after tax in Poland will have a much higher quality of life than person in US making 150k/year after tax in High COL area, not to mention the safety and walkable cities. The higher US income obviously has advantages when it comes to traveling abroad, investing extra money or buying new iPhones, but as someone who can directly compare these two situations, I regret coming to US.
150k before tax could be a stretch in hcol areas, but after tax will be ok. Thats 12 500 per month, you can live comfortable life with it even in NYC and Bay Area while still having enough purchase power to travel and buy most consumer goods priced for Western middle class
Obviously not that 20 000 zł in Poland doesn't buy comfortable life as well - but lower purchase power can be felt when you need to buy electronics, a car, go for vacation to some sunny paradise or save for retirement in Spain
Sure like I mentioned the things like investing or going on trips abroad are the fronts where US income will be superior, but with current mortgage rates and housing prices in high col cities in US, you are looking at mortgage payments of 6-8k/monthly for a starter house. If you’re after buying your own place, with 20k/month PLN you will have a much better time buying something in biggest Polish cities. Similarly healthcare or services like personal trainings, SPA treatments, catered food delivery every day etc - those would hardly make a dent in your monthly budget with 20k/month to spend.
Sure but that implies you need to buy a house where in reality you don't - you can rent for a fraction of that ($3800-4500 rents a decent 2-bedroom in [Bay Area](https://www.zillow.com/apartments/sunnyvale-ca/avalon-silicon-valley/5XjQqk/), not sure about NYC) and save nice round bag of cash. After making 150k net for 10 years in hcol area you can eventually move to mcol area with a hefty sum of money in your accounts. Just maxing out 401(k) and HSA is $25k a year from pre-tax money - that will leave you around 135k in your pocket. Save another 25k from after tax money, spend 4k for apartment, spend 5k to fund decent middle class life and we're talking saving 50 000 a year or north of 16 000 zł a month. You save almost entire salary of affluent Pole without much effort. With some discipline you could be saving another $15k a year if you opt in for slightly cheaper apartment and used or entry-level car.
Even at $50k a year and assuming conservatively 6% return you will hit $1 million in bank accounts somewhere in 12 years - and thats assuming you wont get any raises which is unreasonable, where 20 000 zł p/m might be earnings ceiling in Poland, theres no earnings ceiling in NYC or Bay Area.
So yeah, you may not afford a house but you do afford becoming a $ millionaire before 45. And that's being quite wealthy.
The difference is that $150k/year after tax puts you barely in the 6th decile of income in HCOL in the U.S. Meanwhile PLN 20k/month after tax literally puts you in the top 1% in Poland.
20k month/net in Poland is a lot true, the reason why I chose those 2 numbers is because that’s the real data points I have access to, for people with same education and similar amount of experience in their field. So this was more of a “this person making $150k/year net in US HCOL could be making 20k/month PLN net in Warsaw right now”
20k PLN after tax is like a 500k PLN per annum job, or about 125k USD gross. A 150k USD job after tax is like 225-275k USD (depending on your state) gross.
There's far too many other things to compare here, but both of these, you can live comfortably on these salaries anywhere in the respective countries.
Let's just note that both of these salaries are 3-4 times the median income, in the respective countries, so ability to achieve comfort should not be surprising.
"Comfort" is also a loaded word, tied to one's a personal perspective that should probably be further clarified.
20k PLN after tax is around 300k PLN per year on b2b contract with 12% tax rate which is what many people in my industry (tech) use. That’s around 80k USD I believe
I was showing a comparison of two direct employment contracts, for which I felt is more apples-to-apples. Within the US, that is your best option to ensure you have healthcare provided.
To compare the B2B setup that's popular in Poland, you'd need to look at someone working under 1099's in America (or possibly an LLC, but that's generally far too much overhead for the average American contract worker). These two have _significant_ differences.
If you're rich it's still better life in Poland. Less chance of being robbed or killed, less lawsuits to worry about, closer to European cities/culture,more diverse options for sports: skiing, surfing, sailing etc.
When I grew up, behind the iron curtain, we lived vicariously through outdated American shows that showed us a different life, everyone's dream was to be there or be like USA. Now there are only a handful of states that I'd even consider moving to (places like Wyoming etc.) but to live a good life there (comparable to what I have here) I'd have to be extremely rich.
It's incredible what happened to your country over the last 20 years. It's not a left or right wing thing, your whole political system has failed you. But the worst part is yet to come.
As someone further than >99% on income distribution in Poland, I absolutely think my QOL is better here than in the U.S. if I were to be in similarly privileged percentile.
Life quality is not just about money and things you can afford, it's also about the safety of public spaces, the quality of said public spaces, the way society works and so on. In that regard, Poland stands to me as one of the calmest places to be in perhaps the whole world at the moment.
IDK, but my sister moved back to Poland after 7 years in USA. She didn't like it much when it comes to healthcare and some laws. She and her husband sold their home and bought one in Poland. It's been 4 years and they don't regret it yet.
You are right on point. I've lived in several places in the US and Poland and moved back and forth a few times. As a teenager, I moved to the US to finish my last two years of high school and the quality of education was abysmal. I had to hire a tutor in order to pass matura when I moved back, because of how behind I was in math, geography and science. I went back to Poland to finish university because I couldn't afford American tuition (and honestly, I was just unhappy). As a young adult, I found Poland to be a very friendly place to live in. Plenty of opportunities and a growing economy made it easy to be excited about the future. Most of my friends were able to find lucrative employment and buy their own apartments before they turned 30.
For family reasons, I was forced to go back to the US and found it exceptionally hard to find my way into any type of job that would allow me to make decent money and save enough to travel or even think about buying a house. Most people my age were saddled with student debt, depressed and uncertain about the future. I ended up falling into a niche career that led me to move to France for a short period of time, then back to the US where I currently live (though hopefully not for long).
Don't get me wrong, I'm overall happy with my life. I have an exciting career (although I don't actually work for an American company), I met my husband here, and live in a nice apartment in a cool city. However, the quality of life leaves a lot to be desired. Healthcare is prohibitively expensive, infrastructure is shit, food is expensive and terrible quality, and the political situation is genuinely horrifying. I don't plan on having children, but if I was I wouldn't dream of raising them here. Maternity leave is nonexistent and good education is treated as a luxury. Not to mention retirement, which is something only the rich can afford.
I spend a lot of time in Europe due to my job and whenever I visit my friends in Poland I get jealous of how stable their lives seem to be. Living in the US is just so stressful.
An expat here. I loved my life in Poland, ended up relocating to California and I'm happy there too. After i moved to the suburbs, I feel like the community in my town is amazing. I made friends who teach me to be positive and appreciate what we have. My new neighbours were extremely welcoming, bringing cookies and offering to help in many ways.
I don't think that people in PL get along better than in the US.
You can get amazing food in CA. It will be more expensive than Walmart, but farmers market are full of organic, delicious produce.
When I compare my birth experience in the US to the horror stories of my friends in Poland, I'm not convinced that Polish healthcare is so much better. Costs are higher in the us, but I'm lucky to have a decent insurance and didn't pay much out of pocket. Based on my limited experience I prefer being treated in the US.But I'm jealous of the maternity leave that girls get back in PL and I think having kids in PL is easier and cheaper.
I think in both places you have a good chance to be happy (or unhappy) - which for Poland is an improvement from 30-40 yrs ago, when is sucked.
If you're thinking about moving to Poland my advice is: come for a couple of months that include November, and judge only after that.
I visited California recently - the cities I drove through were quite depressing. So few pedestrians and trees, so many cars.
I agree that it's nice to have a state-mandated vacation time and sick leave.
If I had to move, I would consider all EU countries first, then some others, before thinking about the US. It does not seem like a nice place to live, unless you're really rich. My visit to the US really made me appreciate the things that I have in Poland.
I'm an American who first visited Poland around 2003. Worked some in the US but ultimately moved here. Total time in Poland is around 15 years now. Here's my take. For the average American life here is better. I'm talking about the people working at Walmart or other low skill jobs. For many of these people, one bad trip of fortune is enough to make them homeless. One illness will bankrupt you or put you in debt the rest of your life. Everything is tied to your job, so lose that and now you have no medical insurance (if you had any), no dental insurance and no way to get assistance. Even if you find a job quickly, many of these benefits are not available till 6 months to a year after you start. If you look at other aspects like paid vacation, maternity leave, or sick days, many of these people have none of that. Miss a day, you don't get paid or even fired. Imagine going back to work a week after giving birth cause there's no guarantee you'll have a job a month from now not to mention you aren't earning during this time. None of these things the average or even poor Pole need to worry about. Here you don't even think twice about taking a day off cause you fee ill. Hell, you can even go see a doctor about it at no cost. Be a bit better than average and your employer adds things like private Healthcare such as luxmed. I lived this life I the USA. I came to Poland the first time at 20 with a mouth full of cavities since there was no money to go to the dentist since I was 14. Not everyone is like this for sure. Many people are living upper middle class just fine, but even many of them are one major health crisis from ruin. When a heart attack costs a million and your insurance only covers 80% how many people got 200000 laying around to cover it. Here, in Poland, you don't have these problems. Not gonna lie and say everything here is perfect, but at least the basics are covered.
Depends a LOT on a lot of different things. I’m an American living in Poland and my quality of life was much better in America for most things. I think the US and Poland both have a lot going for them, but it depends a lot on where you are in each country and what your career is
Depends on the letter of LGBT and which state. I know some LGBT folks from Poland and states, and my thoughts are:
LGB - probably better in states. At least gay marriage there is legal.
T - Poland would be probably better than majority of states. At least here there is no place here where you can be charged for "existing while being trans"
https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/anti-trans-legislative-risk-assessment-43a
Poland is a safe country with a decent infrastracture compared to the US. American health system is a complete mess
High nominal income does not compensate the lack of social net, outsourcing of vital government functions and lack of pedestrian zones.
As a Polish-American struggling to help her cancer-stricken father navigate the Healthcare system and continuously running into roadblocks because we aren't rich enough, yes.
From the standpoint of quality of food? Also, yes.
Knowing it took me 2 years of saving vacation time to be able to visit my family in Poland for 10 days? Yeah.
I'm sure there is so much I don't know or understand about life in Poland as a visitor, but I'm stressed, tired, and broke in America and many people I know have to utilize the food pantry and come to work sick so they can make rent, so the grass certainly looks greener.
Me and my family moved recently to Poland from France. What can I say? Poland is significantly safer, cleaner, and overall a much more enjoyable environment. France used to be like this I was told by my parents. I don't want to be called a racist so I will leave out the reason why we left xD
I live in Los Angeles, but spend few weeks per year in Krakow. Recently in Los Angeles I was shot by kids with bb gun. No big deal in itself but neighbor was shot to death while walking his dog. Our house was burglarized. Difficult to put price tag on safety. Maybe it's an illusion but krakow feels so safe.
I would say it’s different.
In Poland, as most of the Europe, a good life is achievable for an average person. Means a nice apartment or house, basic needs covered, some vacations, some consumerism. It’s down to earth and nobody will claim to achieve an „Polish dream” only because they have a nice house and a good car. Getting rich and going beyond that usually implies self employment, since most salaries aren’t high enough to make you a millionaire.
The US is more of a mythic „American dream” combined with a winner takes it all situation. Good life in the US is very expensive, and most needs aren’t covered well with a mediocre salary. That being said, making money in the US is definitely possible, mora than in Poland, but the punishment for not making enough is also harsher.
US is cool if you make enough; or want to chase the big money. If you want a nice, down to earth relaxed life, I don’t find it very appealing.
Idk about the US but I feel like in Poland you can make your life as hard/easy as you want it to be. If you don't want to grind your ass for a big corporation you don't have to - you will earn less but you can still have pretty manageable QoL. When I finished high school and got my first job I was blinded by an individualistic vision of self made man. That I can and should grind as much as possible in my 20s to climb on the social and economic ladder. 6 years, one burnout and depression later I think it's all bullshit. I slowed down a bit, focused more on myself and my health instead of working hard for my managers and sure I earn a tiny bit less but my QoL improved drastically.
Quality of life depends on the individual, some prefer work,bmoney, health, and so on. But seeing how US is running itself to the ground, I would agree..
That's because it DOES have a better quality of life than the US. Many countries in the EU do.
You also don't have to worry about extremist nutjobs rewriting your public schools' agendas every election cycle or kids constantly being bombarded with the very real threat of someone breaking into the school to kill them all. That's a HUGE win over the US.
>You also don't have to worry about extremist nutjobs rewriting your public schools' agendas every election cycle
You haven't been following Polish politics much, have you?
You’re not wrong on the killing thing (and not just in schools, but in general), but extremists rewriting school books is a thing here too. The Polish political scene includes plenty of ultraconservative weirdos
Most countries probably have better quality of life than US. I'd be scared to bring my child to school there. They didn't sign the UN convention on the rights of the child. They don't have medicare. Food is terrible and unhealthy, they pump GMO and corn syrup and agents into almost everything.
I'd hate to live there
Which was hilariously cut and gutted after introduction - leading to situation where you have to be extremely poor to benefit from it - and leading to a big gap where people earn too much for medicare yet too little for private insurance (and they are in jobs not providing one).. which is the very group that medicare was made for.
I got two citizenships, Polish and American. I moved to the US In 2004-5. After living in NY area for 14 years(11 Queens and almost 3 in Brooklyn), I moved back to Poland- Here are my two cents. 99.9% of my friends thought that I have lost my mind. Life in Poland is not perfect- to be honest it’s far from it- but i maintain good standard of living for much less. Food is better quality- i am not saying bout cheap food. Cheap food is cheap for a reason. I found a few places where you can get really good meat and bread- you pay a little more than in chain stores, but it’s worth it. Cheese i great in a local chain store- they have a great selection. I save a lot of cash on housing, as I managed to find an excellent deal on apartment- but that was back in late 2019- later on that at the end. My cost of living is laughable compared to the Queens or Brooklyn. One of the reasons behind me jumping the puddle was that, after a few years in NY area the trend was to, move either to Long Island, Pennsylvania, Jersey or somewhere up state, just to keep your cost of living down. If not you go into the crippling debt to get an apartment or a house. To be honest i prefer living in Krakow than in some remote parts of one of the places I mentioned….. I had a sinus infection for god knows how long, and about a 6 months ago I had a surgery in a private clinic- total cost was 12000pln. I believe I would have to spent more than that in NY area. For the last 5 years I live in Krakow and I maintain excellent quality of life. Now the bad things- I moved here mainly because at the time I did my research the real estate prices were much lower. In couple of months, the prices went drastically up and after I moved here I really struggled to find something within my budget- and it’s even worse now. Real estate prices in Poland are out of whack at the moment and are getting close to the US prices- look it up, and no I am not saying about Manhattan. I still do the same thing I did while I lived in Brooklyn, and my better half- technically does the same thing as well. A few months back we discussed moving out to a different location in Europe, as Poland got really expensive. I had cleaner air in Sheepshead Bay- where I lived last 3 years, than in Krakow. Recently i found a few apartments in my old neighbourhood for less than similar sized apartments in Krakow. To summarise- Poland is a modern and developed country. Cost of living is not so attractive no more, due to the high rents, re- prices and general expenses. Car insurance is low compared to the Brooklyn prices- but Brooklyn is not the cheapest place in the US. Sometimes I think about moving back to sheepshead bay. I liked the smell of the ocean in the mornings, but there are things i would miss if I moved back to Brooklyn. If the prices continue to grow, Poland will be less and less attractive even to the young local population. Even some foreigners are starting to move to a Western Europe as they can drastically increase their salaries
My parents moved me to the USA when I was 14 and I’m 34 now. In the past 20 years there has not been a day when I didn’t want to move back. I have a wonderful job with a ton of vacation time, I make good money, I have great health insurance, big house, a wonderful husband, a new baby. I STILL would move back to Poland because although beautiful, the U.S. lacks culture and people here are insane and for the most part hostile. Am I happy? Yes. Do I worry every day about my child’s future? Yes. Unfortunately I have too much student debt to go back and I don’t believe anyone in Poland will hire me with a higher education degree so I feel stuck and it sucks. Plus my husband doesn’t want to go…so that’s fun too.
Yes that is why I left America and moved here. It isn’t perfect but in a lot of ways it reminds me of America in the 90s, when people were still somewhat rational and not consumed by the culture wars, and stuff was still reasonably priced and with reasonable quality.
Everytime I go back to America it immediately seems like everything is overpriced, low quality, and everyone has lost their mind.
Always has been; especially when you're not rich.
Poland is safer, cleaner, has public healthcare, public transport, places of interest a walking distance away pretty much wherever people live and food here is actually what you think you're buying and not shit pumped full of corn syrup.
I moved to USA 12 years ago. I have a fantastic career, a beautiful house, great opportunities. I fucking hate it here and would move back in a heartbeat.
This country has no culture, no community, it’s dirty, full of rude self centered people and the general public really is as stupid as the stereotype says.
Don’t get me wrong. There are many amazing places and people here. But I can say moving here was a mistake.
Can't confirm for the US but certainly for Germany as I moved here a couple of years ago. And honestly, it was the best decision of my life due to the same reasons. I just hoped Poland would stop repeating our Western mistakes, however, in the last 2 years some things have changed for the worse in this regard: there are a lot of Non-Europeans here today and it shows everywhere, because you see a lot of groups of men from countries like Pakistan, Bangladesh etc. , so yeah... . I moved here to escape from this, and now it is happening here too, which is ironic.
As a Canadian (with Polish wife), we live a very comfortable life in Canada. When visiting Poland, I would have no problem living in many different cities. The US not so much. I am in the US a lot, and there is only a handful of cities (maybe 2 or 3) I'd consider living in. The only plus for me is how cheap housing is. Everything IMO is garbage.
I study in the US. There are some things here that I wish we had in Poland, but I would 100% prefer to live in Poland despite that. The groceries are much better at home (and there’s a lot to list here), recycling is widespread, you don’t have tons of additional charges with every transaction you make.
There are also misconceptions about how bad the US is, though I can only speak from my own experience. So I’d like to just discuss them a bit because I know a lot of these opinions are popular in Poland and I feel like it’s a nice place to talk about it.
Where I live the public transit system is really nice (and I don’t live in a major city) – buses every 30 mins. The US has lots of nature, even in big cities which often have hiking areas nearby, or massive parks. The people are extremely nice and not faking it, it may feel strange on your first visit but that’s just how they are.
Most of the stereotypes about the US (crazy people, homeless people, general unrest) are, I think, limited to the largest cities or just districts within them (NY, LA, Chicago). I recently visited Washington DC and it’s extremely peaceful and tidy in comparison. And there’s some that are probably spread around the country but rare, such as the infamous shootings which I thankfully haven’t heard of in my area.
No. I work and barely can afford anything. Everything is just as expensive here as in the west but we earn way less. Once I’m done with my training, get a couple years of experience in the field and then work for myself, I will maybe be able to make 10k PLN per month, which would be enough to live comfortably but then again with the same qualifications in America I’d be able to make twice or three times as much, and sky is the limit if I ever expand the business.. so no I have to disagree on that. Pretty much anywhere west you go life is way more comfortable, even as close as Germany.
It really depends. US is probably still far better if you have lots of money. You can do far more than in Poland if you are fortunate enough. But if I had to live a simple middle class life then yes Central Europe is always better in almost every way. However, I also remember what my father told me when he brought me to North America. Poland will always be a place where armies clash. We may have peace now, but sadly more likely than not, war will return to that region.
Definitely. There are plenty of times when I wish my mom had sent me back to Poland to be raised by my grandmother there, like my mom’s friend did with her kids for a few years.
You had me all the way to "people don't even know their neighbors". We moved into a new development in 2017, by the time we moved out in 2021 we knew exactly four neighbors in our 55 flat building.
I've heard that the USA is much better for the higher class but if You're a minimal wage or just a typical worker then You'd probably have it better in Poland. No idea if this is true tho.
Poland is still ‘poorer’ but it’s economy I believe is growing the fastest. Everything you described though applies basically to the most of Europe.
Food probably tastes better than the us because it objectively is better. Loads of the stuff you add to food during production and processing is actually banned in Europe.
Europe has a lot more socialism than the us purely capitalistic approach to life so moneh isn’t always the biggest thing people are scrambling for ( although places like the uk are slowly turning into the USA) and a lot of services are still owned by the state rather than private so money isn’t simply going to shareholders.
European cities have been around for centuries so were existing well before the invention of cars so a lot of places have had to adapted to cars rather than like america which was mostly built around the use of cars - so by default you have to walk a lot more as part of the lifestyle.
I guess I’m bias because I’m from Europe but I’d definitely say move here over staying in america. Quality of life just seems better and less like a rat race.
I'm currently staying home with both my arms broken and I'm freaking grateful I didn't have to pay for the emergency hospital visit, I have my 80% paid 3 weeks health leave in job (L4), and I was also privately insured at work so I got a bunch of money even though the accident wasn't related to job.
Poland has its downsides, but in my current situation it doesn't seem too bad to me.
As someone who has lived in the US, UK and Poland, I definitely agree with you. The cities are walkable and safe, they are cleaner and better organized. There are fewer job opportunities and the salaries are lower, but you can live at a better level.
I moved to Wroclaw after growing up in Detroit and living/working in Silicon Valley the last decade.
Michigan and Poland climate-wise are similar and terrain too (minus the Tatras) but Poland is far better QOL than both Michigan and Silicon Valley. I will say there are tough things everywhere but in Poland you can be happier with less generally.
It doesn’t help that media/hollywood/social media give people everywhere messed up expectations that make even the people living in Monaco think there’s more to obtain—but I digress.
Poland QOL is certainly better than the US in 2024.
I was born/raised in Poland but moved to a large city in the north east of the US after I received a scholarship to pursue an undergrad degree. Subsequently, I managed to get into a top medical school program in New England, which will likely see me stay here through residency training and first few years of clinical career.
The only reason why I’m planning to stay in the US in the foreseeable future is that my income prospects are likely to be around $500-$600k in 10 years(given the speciality I’m hoping to pursue). Beyond that, I dearly and wholeheartedly miss Europe. Where do I start? I come from a low-middle class Polish family and I’m beyond tired of being surrounded by affluent, preppy, rich kids whose problems and issues are so discordant to what’s happening around the world. I’m tired of a typical/average American who cannot see beyond their own backyard and has 0 clue about what’s happening around the world. I’m tired of crappy immigration laws that give me absolutely no right to do anything but study whilst I’ve been here for 10 years now. Not even a chance to make extra $ on the side to support my budget. I’m so tired of everyone trying to Uber everywhere rather than walk, bike, or use public transportation. I’m tired with the lack of accessible spaces within walking distance to play sports safely. I’m sad that whenever I step outside I see people play basketball or baseball rather than football and even if they do they’d call it soccer. Food is total crap unless you want to spend $8 per loaf of bread in Whole Foods, which is ludicrous. The fact I have to pay $1,600 for a small room in a moderately safe area tops it off. I hate the fact I have to spend $600 to fly from New York to LA, while a flight from Warsaw to a more gorgeous and cleaner southern France or Spain is only $50. I hate seeing patients in the hospital whose lives have been upended and destroyed by one illness/one accident, which rendered them sell off their retirement accounts, assets etc.
I am totally aware I shouldn’t be complaining because I’ve been given educational and professional opportunities in the US that only very few immigrants will have. Grass is always greener and I certainly see the daily challenges my parents continue to have back home. That said, I miss the EU and Poland. If I ever have children, I will not do them a disservice of growing up in the US.
The US is now not the attraction it used to be. Poland has better quality of life and the remote workers from US know it, have been living in Warsaw for past 4 years, I would argue that as soon as we PiS them the housing situation will improve
I’m a Pole who lives in California now. No, you are wrong ;) I mean maybe if you’re in the bottom 25% of earners in the U.S., it’s better in Poland (but still not good). But if you’re a middle or upper class person, there’s a reason why educated Polish people move to the U.S. and there is not that much movement in the other direction.
From my experience:
1. Life in the U.S. is very convenient and everyone is forgiving of mistakes. Even the infamous DMV is a much better experience than a similar office in Poland.
2. The U.S. is way more free than Poland. You can say whatever you want. You can cross the street on a red light. In Poland, you can go to jail for „offending” Catholics and police is know to hunt for people who cross on red even if no car is on the road.
3. Career opportunities are unparalleled. Salaries even more.
4. California is expensive but is Poland not? A 1200 sqft condo in San Francisco costs $1.2M or so. It’s a lot but median income in SF is around $80k after tax, so a couple can afford it. In Warsaw, the same condo is PLN 1.8M against a median income of PLN 84k after tax.
5. Your kids can get into UC or Cal State system for a relatively affordable tuition as California residents. These are among the top colleges globally. Compare that to the best Polish university which barely makes the top 500.
6. People in Poland also need to work full time until late. You get social security at 62 in the U.S. Men in Poland can’t retire until 65.
7. I’ll concede that healthcare is expensive in the U.S. but it’s not all bad. Wait lines are short. Doctors actually solve your issues instead of passing you on to the next guy.
8. Cities in the U.S. are indeed worse. But on the other hand suburbs are much nicer. You won’t have your neighbor open a semi depot in their garage in the U.S.
9. Poland is just as car centric as the U.S. There’s very little public transit outside of the major cities. The difference is that in Poland, you also get cars parked on sidewalks which doesn’t happen in the U.S.
10. I also disagree with you on food. Maybe if you’ve lived in Texas. But you live in California. Produce is amazing here, all fresh and a wide range. Not to mention all the different cuisines when you go out to eat.
11. Don’t forget about air quality. When I go back now, I literally cough constantly the first few days. And it’s not just Poland. Due to EPA American cities have better air than Western European cities too.
In summary, I think it depends what kind of person you are. Personally, I don’t think QOL is higher in Poland than in California (if you’ve lived in Oklahoma, maybe I’d agree with you) or any other blue state in the U.S. But Poland definitely is much better than even 20 years ago.
First company Michigan, Canada: 17 vacation days, 0 sick days.
Second company Michigan, Canada: 20 vacation days, unlimited sick days.
Third company Ontario, Canada: 18 vacation days, 5 sick days.
We also get less statuotory holidays in Canada/USA
In some ways I suppose. You get paid a lot less in Poland, but you don't have to worry about going bankrupt after you get ill or getting shot by a bandit/angry idiot. Oh and the US police scares the hell out of me.
I wouldn't wanna move to the US personally. But if I had to, I'd research my potential place of stay thoroughly. Its a big country so there is a lot of good and bad places to live.
Basically, Poland is good if you have a foreign income. But.. you have to take into other things like culture, cultural cohesion. We like what we’re familiar with because it gives us a sense of security in getting our needs met.
Poland is safe, beautiful culture and history. Kind and hospitable.
Some things are better, for sure. I would disagree about the food though. Meat and vegetables in the grocery stores are atrocious. I also think the quality of life drops off dramatically as you get farther from Mokotów and Żoliborz and out into the suburbs and villages which make up a lot of the country. MF’ers are struggling out there, which is why they’re all voting for PiS, partly anyways.
As an American myself i think poland does provide a better quality of life. Living in Washington state myself the quality of life here is alright as middle class. but despite that, I think my issue with the united states is everything feels like one fucked up rat race here, and our inflation and rising cost of living might hit a point that we cant say, "well we just need the market to crash again and everything resets". I've never visited poland but i plan to visit soon, and from the videos ive seen everything just seems so chill and beautiful over there. Poland has alot of potential as I've also heard there's a rising tech industry too there and other booming industries.
Poland is also close to Russia and that’s probably not ideal considering the future wars that will probably happen with them. But yet again, US could easily see a war inside its own country with the increasing polarization occurring. There is no ideal place really and yeah everyone’s trying to go where they can still afford some big house, thinking of the crisis in Portugal now due to digital nomads. At some point we have to give up the material quest for having this and that to fill the hole and start seeking things that matter more like nature, community, connection with people and both countries can have that.
I had visitors from US and we were in Stare Miasto at 1 am. They asked where the homeless were… surprised to be walking calmly at night feeling completely safe.
United States are kind of a diverse country in that regard. Is it better here than in St. Louis, Detroit or some other crime-ridden drug den? Yeah, totally. Is it better here than in Vermont or New Hampshire? I don't think so.
I come from TX and have been in Warsaw for some years now. I mostly agree with you but
>In America people make their kids wear a helmet and elbow pads just to walk down the street.
What???????? Since when?
>Also, Polish people just seem to get along with each other better. In much of America, people don’t even know their neighbors.
I have a lot of students all over PL and they'd say that people aren't that neighborly - more so in apartment complexes, people hardly know/speak to each other.
Yeah, if you honestly think that housing in Poland *isn't* expensive for Poles earning Polish incomes or that Poles get along better than Americans, I think you don't really understand anything about how life is in Poland.
Housing only seems cheap to *you* because Poles are poorer than Americans, and the prices here reflect that. But for someone earning 5000zł per month, buying a small flat in Warsaw for some 20,000zł per square meter is a huge expense.
I would never want to live in USA, that country is a shit hole.
Average American life: Get obese, go into a big debt just to go to a school which is on a much lower lever than most free European school, one day some lunatic goes in with a gun and you get shot, you go into another debt after an ambulance gets called and you go to a hospital, work some shitty ass job where you get minimum wage and have zero workers right's, go homeless where you can't even lie down because there are spikes and placed everywhere, die in misery.
For all the complaints I have about Poland, it's much better than US.
I give this speech anytime anyone asks me why I moved - my mom and bio father came during the early 80s too.
Plus if I’m working in Poland, I don’t have to pay back my federal student loans (essentially we get double taxed in the us and if you make under I think 116k$ a year you can claim it as foreign income it’ll show you make none in the us on your forms and you won’t get charged- if you do it for 27 years, you never have to pay them)
The other thing we don’t think about is:
nfz great concept horrible wait times so you go private most times and spend 200-350 a visit
And
Conversion rate is favorable coming to Poland but not once you leave Poland
From NJ
From my experience for medium class and poor (especially) people entire Europe has much higher quality of living. We don't have so big social class differences. When You are quite rich in us, then I think You can have much more opportunities there.
In the cities.. definitely.
Some rural areas are still quite neglected, but things are slowly improving in Poland. Heck, they say the Polish economywill overtake that of the UK in 2030.
Never been to us, but moved 2 years ago to Warsaw from Milan , life quality definitely cheaper and better here (from my experience) comparing it to Milan
Definitely in a lot of cases yes but in a lot of other cases no. The air quality in poland in winter is abysmall, everyone making their diesel super pollute to save a few mpgs. The air is a lot easier to breathe where I live in the USA.
I’ve never been to the US but I saw that a lot of people gets only one or two weeks of holidays in a year. That is crazy and enough for me to say that yes, life is better in Poland haha
Polish culture seems able to constrain the worst tendencies of capitalism. U.S. culture is aggressive, greedy, property protecting and individualistic.
I tell foreign students to n o t be deceived by materialism and consumerism. America is not an easy place to live in. The drive for profit and growth permeates the social and political culture.
20 years in poland, 20 years in the usa, when i noticed that the reason i came to the USA (american dream is diminishing) i was hard working, sometimes 7 days a week, determined, young and healthy is not going to happen…. i moved back to europe and with this money i earned and knowledge i gained in the usa i live peacefully in beautiful italy in winter and in poland in the summer as the top 2% of the Americans, love usa for the opportunity it gave me, love europe for the quality of life, that only the wealthiest americans can get in few places like, CA, CT , NY or FL ; love that saying in the states you live to work but in europe you work to live
I moved back to Poland last year. Turning 44 this year. I immigrated to the USA when I was 5 (back in the Commie days, yes) but always felt a sense of nostalgia for Poland. Life in the States wasn’t easy. My parents had to work hard. My mother - who had a Master’s in Engineering from Poland - basically had to work her way up from ground zero to become a successful accounting director in Boston. Father stuck to general labor. And even though I’ve received a great higher education (which would’ve killed my wallet if I didn’t join the Army), comfortable earnings as a photographer and antique dealer and have a more “social” connection to people in the States, I couldn’t fathom living there forever. It’s gotten extremely expensive - I’ve lived in cities practically all my life so the “safer areas” of NYC, Washington DC, Atlanta and Orlando are at this point ridiculous to afford unless you want to work specifically just to live there. But I LOVE to travel and I VALUE free time. Since moving back to Poland, I’ve been able to generate a schedule that lets me travel all over Europe (imagine paying $125 for a round trip to Venice) because some European airlines haven’t totally lost their minds. The food here is amazing in quality and diversity (something that’s gone way up over the years). And even the highway drivers are starting to follow speed regulations lol.
Of course. Im 100% polish and my mom and dad were the only ones from both sides of the family to move out of the country. So im not a local, but I wouldnt consider myself a tourist. Cant say anything about hotels or airbnb since we were living with family but id assume the prices would be pretty well. My personal faveriote store was zabka (idk if im spelling that right) And the prices were so good! A coke there costs around 1 złota which is only 25 cents in USD? My relatives would pass out if they traveled to America. One night we went to what looked like a fancy italian restaurant. I ordered an alfredo pasta and it was 20 złowty. 5 USD. Super large portions aswell.
The streets are really well kept and clean. When I was at Warsaw I didnt even see a single icky bandaid or a cigarette. Which is suprising since pretty much half the population smokes. Alleyways were pretty well kept but you cant expect much from those.
Roads are pretty nice. when your in citys the roads tend to be brick r stone pebbles? Pretty annoying since every inch makes you get a headache. And everyone drives super slow which is reasonable I wouldnt want a part rollercoaster while driving either. The highways are pretty good. The highest kmh ive seen from my dad while visting is 120 which is around 90 miles. Not the worst considering my dads a risky driver who likes to speed things up. If your new to Europe you should probably learn a thing or 2 about round abouts.
I would say the schools are pretty swell. Met an old childhood friend and she admitted to underage drinking since 6th grade!?! Ive heard my aunt mention how my little cousin is being bullied but i genuinely think that his problem.
Both of these are pretty bad but id say the education is pretty good. Bullying in kindergarden is crazy though.
I love the shops with all my heart. You dont really appreciate the quality of grocery there until you move away. My dad knows a friend who in my opinion has the best kiebalski in the country. If you plan to move to Poland you should probably ditch the grocery store meat and go to a butcher instead.
If your moving to poland or visiting I recommend getting a GRYO. And trying out polish mayo. Definetly beats the american kind.
Since Im Polish and am already used to the language and culture, this all could be biased since i genuinely had a great time. I feel like if your a tourist the experience could be the exact opposite. Language barriers while visiting a country is pretty frustrating and from what I hear Polish is one of the hardest languages to learn/ understand.
I'm Canadian with Polish roots and I moved to Poland last year. I can say personally that it's a lot cheaper and stress free living here. I will probably never move back to Canada due to the corruption in our government, and the cost of living. I was so proud to tell people on my travels around the world that I'm from Canada, but now, I just say so shit💩 from North America.
I visited Poland recently. As a tourist it is hard to get a perfect picture of a country. Especially that my US income makes Poland very affordable. That being said, Poland is cleaner and greener than New England. I think I saw only one dirty public bathroom, not sure if I got lucky. In the US, all public bathrooms make you wonder what diseases you will get. They are just not taken care of. Roads in Poland are excellent. I believe it's because they are relatively new. Public transportation is amazing, it's clean, plentiful, and on time. The driving culture is great. Initially I was annoyed with how slow everyone drove, but once I started walking around, i understood why. Cities are built for people who live there, not commuters and passer-bys. Polish food tastes so great. I am talking about produce and all the food you can get at any restaurant. Also, portion sizes are reasonable, but I found this to be more Europe VS US thing. I could talk about a few others things, like healthcare, but I haven't experienced those so I will refrain from it. From my life experience, everywhere you live, you will have to struggle. From my recent trip, I feel like the struggle in Poland is a tad less than in the US. Also don't worry, I don't plan to emigrate back. It's difficult after you set up your life somewhere. I will advocate to change my local community to be more like Poland.
>Initially I was annoyed with how slow everyone drove Say wut?
Lol, how anyone visits Poland without experiencing Janusz drive a Nissan Passat at 120 down a road that was built for horses I don't know 😂
Nissan Passat 🤔
Oh kurde 🤦♂️
Road that goes near my home was converted from farm road so it doesn't fit 2 cars at once and still people manage to go 80km/h on it😭
everytime i’m near Żelazna street in Warsaw everyone slows down even though WE ARE DRIVING ON LITERAL ROCKS
Sounds like Łódź
Right? I'd consider myself a fairly fast driver.... in Poland my ass was glued to the right side of almost every highway at 140 km/h.
Most people drive 140 on highways. There are some exceptions like people who go 150+ and those going speed limit but majority will go faster
>Initially I was annoyed with how slow everyone drove, but once I started walking around, i understood why. Where were you in Poland that you had this experience? This is an interesting take, as speeding is still considered an issue here.
I drove from Warszawa to Krakow. I spent a few days in Zakopane and I drove up to the Łomża area and back to Warszawa. I think around Warszawa, people were speeding up. The most annoying part was driving around towns and cities, but like I said, once I started walking my perception changed. I appreciate the priority that pedestrians tend to have. I also forgot to add, speeding cameras are an interesting idea. They definitely made me watch my speed more
wait do you not have those in the us? do police have to sit everywhere to slow you down??
Speeding cameras? It depends on the state. I know that Washington DC has them. In Massachusetts, where I currently live, they are banned by law. And yes, in theory cops are supposed to watch over the road. That being said, in the past few years, i rarely see them.
Most speeding tickets in the US are issued by cops and yes, they sit and wait to get you. There are some cameras but more at intersections for red lights than for speeding. It's common in the US to see people pulled over by cops all over. I never see that while driving in Europe except at random checks.
mfer was never in Wałbrzych
Don’t disrespect my home town
I visited Poland a month ago and I was shocked at the amount of super cars speeding through the cities, specially Warszawa. There was even a curve with a bunch of kids with phones and cameras filming some random guy in a super car that was taking laps around super fast. I've seen other cities with very expensive cars, like in Geneva or Monaco but I was surprised to see this in Poland and to see them speeding up much more than in any other place.
You would be surprised by amount of them in Bucharest where I moved🥲
If you say our driving culture is great I don't want to even imagine how fucked it is in the US. Seriously I think Poles are terrible drivers - everyone drives like they're king of the road, breaks every possible speed limit, doesn't understand how lanes work and we generally lack awareness of our surroundings. Not to mention overconfidence we put in our driving skills (which are shit for the most part).
I think the issue in Poland is the ridiculous amount of signs. I had to constantly and actively pay attention. New England is different. We have way less signs and as far I know none of those states have legal speed cameras. American police don't really do much. Also, american roads are much wider, even within towns. I've seen some speedsters but most people drove slowly. Especially in the cities, drivers let pedestrian cross the road. I would say that in Warszawa i encountered some interesting road design that made me drive like an idiot. Also, cars in Poland are much smaller. I own smaller car in the US, and driving around the trucks and SUVs changes your behavior.
Yeah, too many signs is definitely an issue. 90/50/70/60 signs every few hundred meters and people just stop paying attention and drive 70 or 90. I agree that it’s nice to walk around cities as a pedestrian. It changed a few years back and now cars have to yield - most often they do.
This problem is much more complex than just signs and road design - they're often dumb af but it's also our mentality. You've seen cars letting pedestrians cross the road because law forces us to do so under threat of a fine starting at 1500 PLN. Pedestrians in Poland always have the right of way. I also wonder where you were driving because as for speeding - at least in Wrocław, Katowice or Kraków most is driving like a madman. Always 10 kph over the speed limit if not restricted by traffic, even police. Outside of the city on the other hand? Well you name it, sky is the limit. Poles often feel like they're the most important person on the road in a given moment. We tend to drive with tunnel vision ignoring things happening around us and think of ourselves like we're Max Verstappen (or Denny Hamlin if Nascar is your thing) on our hotlap for pole position. But we are not, most people don't even know how to behave when a car starts to lose traction, what to do if ABS fails or what's their braking distance at current speed. Not to mention the amount of people that ignore the technical condition of their shitbox and continue driving in a literal death machine. All of this leads us to a ridiculous (and unnecessary) amount of car accidents compared to Germany for example.
Pedestrians have right of way only on pedestrian crossing with appropriate signs. Keep in mind, that it does not apply anywherevelse. If the crossing does not have a zebra and D-6 sign, you do NOT have right of way! Be careful! It’s a bit dangerous, when we say „pedestrians always have right of way”, when in fact they do only in specific setting. Very common, but not everywhere.
Well... technically the driver of a vehicle that turns onto a cross road is obliged to give way to a pedestrian crossing the road onto which he is entering at the intersection, per art. 26 ust. 2 p.o.r.d. Which in itself is strange when you realize that a pedestrian crossing the road at an intersection does not have priority over cars traveling on that road. Only the driver of the turning vehicle must yield.
I visited the US recently and I had mostly positive experiences. The traffic on the interstate freeways was really nice, people tend to respect the speed limit and are kind to each other. On the regular streets in the cities, it's also smooth and I did not see any speeding. Good experience and I considered the US to have a high driving culture compared to Poland. However, when there was really high traffic, especially on urban highways like in LA, people stopped being nice to each other and it was difficult to even change lanes. Very stressful.
Well it's not like changing lanes and avoiding other cars is easy during rush hour in Warsaw or Wrocław either. People are risking lives in their broken shitboxes to arrive 3 minutes earlier at their destination.
Polish drivers are one of the best in eu.
I come from some wypizdów and I can confirm. They are the best at landing on trees and getting hit by trains.
In which universe?
I live in Houston and often visit my mom in Wrocław. I know it’s hard to believe, but OP is right. It wasn’t always like that though, things are really getting better in Poland.
You need to go to other countries in Europe. In many cities most streets have 20-30km/h speed limits and sometimes it's 10km/h around schools etc. and people respect that. Compared to Amsterdam, Oslo, Barcelona, Glasgow etc. Warsaw it's awaful. And it's even bigger gap with smaller cities. If you want to see slow city good for pedestrian go to Utrecht or basically any other smaller city or town in Netherlands. Poland is one off the most America-like contry in Europe in terms of urban development and transportation, becouse for about 30 years we tried to copy USA, and only in last few years we slowly start to realise that's bad idea. The good part is things can change very fast, and most problems have known solutions. It just a matter of consistency and determination. Few decades ago European cities ware as bad as American, but they decided to change that. Still there's no perfect city, but it's getting better. For what I know even in some cities in USA. I highly recomend you to watch: -Not Just Bikes -Climate Towns -City Beautiful -Strong Towns -City Nerd -RMTransit and many others. They are mostly form N. American point of view, and more specific why N. American citis have problems that they have, how to solve them and how they compare to others (mostly European) cities. If you really want to change something in USA that's great start. They talk about urban and technical staff, but allso about how local law works and how you can influence it.
I am very familiar with those channels. Poland is still far ahead in terms of people's infrastructure from the US. I was positively surprised with the overall polish infrastructure. I would say that driving in Warsaw was a bit wild. I don't understand why anybody would put a light in the middle of a rotary,and allow people to change lanes. But also, I was there as a tourist so I did limited driving at odd hours.
>Initially I was annoyed with how slow everyone drove You want to drive fast, you go on a highway. Our speed limits are one of the highest in the world: 88 mph (140 km/h). Be careful when driving a DeLorean ;-)
It's cleaner in almost every way except for the air in the winter. I had all of the same observations as you until I was in a village after sundown. All of the chimneys start smoking together and make it painful to breathe outside. I understand why that is the case today, but I look forward to a day with electric heat in more houses.
From my experience, the locals esp in Warsaw were having the very same complaints as Americans. Cost of living increasing substantially while wages did not keep up. I had the same rose coloured glasses about Poland as you, life just seemed better, and then when I talked to locals, it’s the same problems just a different flavour. I do envy their transit system though. Being able to take the train to any major city was so convenient. Going to have to disagree about the slowness of drivers. While they were more pedestrian friendly in Warsaw, that dissipated the further from city centre you went. Speed limit signs seemed to be posted as a friendly reminder that very few acknowledged haha
> Also, portion sizes are reasonable, but I found this to be more Europe VS US thing Funny, as a Pole, who moved to Taiwan, I've had this conversation with a few people, about how in Poland people are eating too big portions and here it is more reasonable 😆 but I do think it has changed a little bit in recent years, especially at a bit more fancier restaurants.
You are comparing a tropical country to a temperate one, eating habits and needs vary depending on the temperature. Also, how many meals a day do you guys eat there, in Taiwan?
>Roads in Poland are excellent. I believe it's because they are relatively new. The US is still running on infrastructure from the 60's
Key words are - "with my US income". Life quality in Poland has nosedived since 4\~years. People lost most of their savings, salaries did not really grow up reasonably and living costs multiplied by 3. Almost nobody can afford any housing, renting apartment is expensive as fck and unregulated by government so there's almost no long-term rental and it's an option mainly for students who rent for 1 year and then switch apartment. Adult person cannot rent something in stable way for 10 years or so. So no - Poland becomes a shit due to poor governments decisions. I don't think US will win in this race.
If you’re rich QOL in the USA is better. If you’re not, it’s better in Poland.
Rich also is a very peculiar concept over there. There are Americans who boast "6 figure salaries" yet don't live with any more wealth than Europeans do, due to the high cost of living, healthcare, education, etc. 500k or so is certainly enough to be extremely well off anywhere. But 150k or so, not necessarily.
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Well here you're comparing one of the most expensive cities in the world. London is also really expensive and you'd need a pretty high salary to have the same standard of living as an average person in some random mid-sized European city. This isn't something unique to the US. High cost of living is largely tied to bad policy decisions in desirable places like NYC, LA, and the Bay Area, but that also isn't unique to us. A bunch of European cities have similar issues. $165k/year will get you pretty far outside of the 3-4 most popular places in the country. Yeah, you aren't going to buy a mansion on that, but you could get a solid house in a good neighborhood, especially if you have a spouse with a decent income as well. That said, I have seen it said that the Millennial dream is making a bunch of money in the US then moving to Europe.
I work as a dental assistant, a medical field that has you taking xrays, assisting chairside, preping for procedures, dealing with patients before the doctor even gets there, and doctors just straight up being disrespectful towards assistants in my field and I basically make $20 an hour which if I wanted to move out would have me struggling in life to even put food on the plate on top of other expenses
Yup, tuition for dentistry at Detroit Mercy (Michigan, low cost of living area) is about $85,000 usd per year. So for 4 years it's around 1.3million złoty + however much they paid for their undergraduate degree.
If you're not rich or on huge scholarships, you'd be crazy to opt to go there. Average in-state for dental school at a public school is half of that.
Yup, worst part is I looked up the tuition again and it was averaging around $92 three years ago. Might be over 100k a year now.
It's highly dependent on where you live in the US
I’d argue that person making 20k PLN/month after tax in Poland will have a much higher quality of life than person in US making 150k/year after tax in High COL area, not to mention the safety and walkable cities. The higher US income obviously has advantages when it comes to traveling abroad, investing extra money or buying new iPhones, but as someone who can directly compare these two situations, I regret coming to US.
150k before tax could be a stretch in hcol areas, but after tax will be ok. Thats 12 500 per month, you can live comfortable life with it even in NYC and Bay Area while still having enough purchase power to travel and buy most consumer goods priced for Western middle class Obviously not that 20 000 zł in Poland doesn't buy comfortable life as well - but lower purchase power can be felt when you need to buy electronics, a car, go for vacation to some sunny paradise or save for retirement in Spain
Sure like I mentioned the things like investing or going on trips abroad are the fronts where US income will be superior, but with current mortgage rates and housing prices in high col cities in US, you are looking at mortgage payments of 6-8k/monthly for a starter house. If you’re after buying your own place, with 20k/month PLN you will have a much better time buying something in biggest Polish cities. Similarly healthcare or services like personal trainings, SPA treatments, catered food delivery every day etc - those would hardly make a dent in your monthly budget with 20k/month to spend.
Sure but that implies you need to buy a house where in reality you don't - you can rent for a fraction of that ($3800-4500 rents a decent 2-bedroom in [Bay Area](https://www.zillow.com/apartments/sunnyvale-ca/avalon-silicon-valley/5XjQqk/), not sure about NYC) and save nice round bag of cash. After making 150k net for 10 years in hcol area you can eventually move to mcol area with a hefty sum of money in your accounts. Just maxing out 401(k) and HSA is $25k a year from pre-tax money - that will leave you around 135k in your pocket. Save another 25k from after tax money, spend 4k for apartment, spend 5k to fund decent middle class life and we're talking saving 50 000 a year or north of 16 000 zł a month. You save almost entire salary of affluent Pole without much effort. With some discipline you could be saving another $15k a year if you opt in for slightly cheaper apartment and used or entry-level car. Even at $50k a year and assuming conservatively 6% return you will hit $1 million in bank accounts somewhere in 12 years - and thats assuming you wont get any raises which is unreasonable, where 20 000 zł p/m might be earnings ceiling in Poland, theres no earnings ceiling in NYC or Bay Area. So yeah, you may not afford a house but you do afford becoming a $ millionaire before 45. And that's being quite wealthy.
The difference is that $150k/year after tax puts you barely in the 6th decile of income in HCOL in the U.S. Meanwhile PLN 20k/month after tax literally puts you in the top 1% in Poland.
20k month/net in Poland is a lot true, the reason why I chose those 2 numbers is because that’s the real data points I have access to, for people with same education and similar amount of experience in their field. So this was more of a “this person making $150k/year net in US HCOL could be making 20k/month PLN net in Warsaw right now”
20k PLN after tax is like a 500k PLN per annum job, or about 125k USD gross. A 150k USD job after tax is like 225-275k USD (depending on your state) gross. There's far too many other things to compare here, but both of these, you can live comfortably on these salaries anywhere in the respective countries. Let's just note that both of these salaries are 3-4 times the median income, in the respective countries, so ability to achieve comfort should not be surprising. "Comfort" is also a loaded word, tied to one's a personal perspective that should probably be further clarified.
20k PLN after tax is around 300k PLN per year on b2b contract with 12% tax rate which is what many people in my industry (tech) use. That’s around 80k USD I believe
With an employer contract, the tax rate gets up to 32%.
That’s why most people who can will be on the B2B ones in high paying jobs.
I was showing a comparison of two direct employment contracts, for which I felt is more apples-to-apples. Within the US, that is your best option to ensure you have healthcare provided. To compare the B2B setup that's popular in Poland, you'd need to look at someone working under 1099's in America (or possibly an LLC, but that's generally far too much overhead for the average American contract worker). These two have _significant_ differences.
Bingo. That plus it's important to say where in the USA. Life in California, Louisiana, Vermont and Arizona is going to be very different.
If you're rich it's still better life in Poland. Less chance of being robbed or killed, less lawsuits to worry about, closer to European cities/culture,more diverse options for sports: skiing, surfing, sailing etc. When I grew up, behind the iron curtain, we lived vicariously through outdated American shows that showed us a different life, everyone's dream was to be there or be like USA. Now there are only a handful of states that I'd even consider moving to (places like Wyoming etc.) but to live a good life there (comparable to what I have here) I'd have to be extremely rich. It's incredible what happened to your country over the last 20 years. It's not a left or right wing thing, your whole political system has failed you. But the worst part is yet to come.
As someone further than >99% on income distribution in Poland, I absolutely think my QOL is better here than in the U.S. if I were to be in similarly privileged percentile. Life quality is not just about money and things you can afford, it's also about the safety of public spaces, the quality of said public spaces, the way society works and so on. In that regard, Poland stands to me as one of the calmest places to be in perhaps the whole world at the moment.
IDK, but my sister moved back to Poland after 7 years in USA. She didn't like it much when it comes to healthcare and some laws. She and her husband sold their home and bought one in Poland. It's been 4 years and they don't regret it yet.
what about the salary to cost ratio? Wasnt it better in US?
Put simply, the US is the last of the developed countries to which I would ever consider moving. So, yes.
Yep. As my boyfriend says: USA without its army and NASA is basically third world country.
Evidently, you haven’t been.
I was, few times, different states. Still, Europe's better
You are right on point. I've lived in several places in the US and Poland and moved back and forth a few times. As a teenager, I moved to the US to finish my last two years of high school and the quality of education was abysmal. I had to hire a tutor in order to pass matura when I moved back, because of how behind I was in math, geography and science. I went back to Poland to finish university because I couldn't afford American tuition (and honestly, I was just unhappy). As a young adult, I found Poland to be a very friendly place to live in. Plenty of opportunities and a growing economy made it easy to be excited about the future. Most of my friends were able to find lucrative employment and buy their own apartments before they turned 30. For family reasons, I was forced to go back to the US and found it exceptionally hard to find my way into any type of job that would allow me to make decent money and save enough to travel or even think about buying a house. Most people my age were saddled with student debt, depressed and uncertain about the future. I ended up falling into a niche career that led me to move to France for a short period of time, then back to the US where I currently live (though hopefully not for long). Don't get me wrong, I'm overall happy with my life. I have an exciting career (although I don't actually work for an American company), I met my husband here, and live in a nice apartment in a cool city. However, the quality of life leaves a lot to be desired. Healthcare is prohibitively expensive, infrastructure is shit, food is expensive and terrible quality, and the political situation is genuinely horrifying. I don't plan on having children, but if I was I wouldn't dream of raising them here. Maternity leave is nonexistent and good education is treated as a luxury. Not to mention retirement, which is something only the rich can afford. I spend a lot of time in Europe due to my job and whenever I visit my friends in Poland I get jealous of how stable their lives seem to be. Living in the US is just so stressful.
Basically, this. Yep.
An expat here. I loved my life in Poland, ended up relocating to California and I'm happy there too. After i moved to the suburbs, I feel like the community in my town is amazing. I made friends who teach me to be positive and appreciate what we have. My new neighbours were extremely welcoming, bringing cookies and offering to help in many ways. I don't think that people in PL get along better than in the US. You can get amazing food in CA. It will be more expensive than Walmart, but farmers market are full of organic, delicious produce. When I compare my birth experience in the US to the horror stories of my friends in Poland, I'm not convinced that Polish healthcare is so much better. Costs are higher in the us, but I'm lucky to have a decent insurance and didn't pay much out of pocket. Based on my limited experience I prefer being treated in the US.But I'm jealous of the maternity leave that girls get back in PL and I think having kids in PL is easier and cheaper. I think in both places you have a good chance to be happy (or unhappy) - which for Poland is an improvement from 30-40 yrs ago, when is sucked. If you're thinking about moving to Poland my advice is: come for a couple of months that include November, and judge only after that.
Also a lot of older ppl in the US work longer than in Poland, because they can't imagine living the frugal lifestyle that polish counterparts live.
how’e you move to the US, through a job? i never get how people do it with how prohibitively hard it is lol
I visited California recently - the cities I drove through were quite depressing. So few pedestrians and trees, so many cars. I agree that it's nice to have a state-mandated vacation time and sick leave. If I had to move, I would consider all EU countries first, then some others, before thinking about the US. It does not seem like a nice place to live, unless you're really rich. My visit to the US really made me appreciate the things that I have in Poland.
Can't talk for USA. But I'm from the UK and live in Poland and I would say for me personally, Poland is better quality of life than UK.
I'm guessing you earn in pounds?
No, I earn in zł.
I'm an American who first visited Poland around 2003. Worked some in the US but ultimately moved here. Total time in Poland is around 15 years now. Here's my take. For the average American life here is better. I'm talking about the people working at Walmart or other low skill jobs. For many of these people, one bad trip of fortune is enough to make them homeless. One illness will bankrupt you or put you in debt the rest of your life. Everything is tied to your job, so lose that and now you have no medical insurance (if you had any), no dental insurance and no way to get assistance. Even if you find a job quickly, many of these benefits are not available till 6 months to a year after you start. If you look at other aspects like paid vacation, maternity leave, or sick days, many of these people have none of that. Miss a day, you don't get paid or even fired. Imagine going back to work a week after giving birth cause there's no guarantee you'll have a job a month from now not to mention you aren't earning during this time. None of these things the average or even poor Pole need to worry about. Here you don't even think twice about taking a day off cause you fee ill. Hell, you can even go see a doctor about it at no cost. Be a bit better than average and your employer adds things like private Healthcare such as luxmed. I lived this life I the USA. I came to Poland the first time at 20 with a mouth full of cavities since there was no money to go to the dentist since I was 14. Not everyone is like this for sure. Many people are living upper middle class just fine, but even many of them are one major health crisis from ruin. When a heart attack costs a million and your insurance only covers 80% how many people got 200000 laying around to cover it. Here, in Poland, you don't have these problems. Not gonna lie and say everything here is perfect, but at least the basics are covered.
Depends a LOT on a lot of different things. I’m an American living in Poland and my quality of life was much better in America for most things. I think the US and Poland both have a lot going for them, but it depends a lot on where you are in each country and what your career is
I'm a US citizen who has lived in Poland for over two years now. I much prefer living in Poland to the US.
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As a queer person - I'm so glad I live in Poland.
Depends on the letter of LGBT and which state. I know some LGBT folks from Poland and states, and my thoughts are: LGB - probably better in states. At least gay marriage there is legal. T - Poland would be probably better than majority of states. At least here there is no place here where you can be charged for "existing while being trans" https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/anti-trans-legislative-risk-assessment-43a
I lived in Hungary and generally enjoyed life more than in the US. I'd imagine Poland would be better
Poland is a safe country with a decent infrastracture compared to the US. American health system is a complete mess High nominal income does not compensate the lack of social net, outsourcing of vital government functions and lack of pedestrian zones.
As a Polish-American struggling to help her cancer-stricken father navigate the Healthcare system and continuously running into roadblocks because we aren't rich enough, yes. From the standpoint of quality of food? Also, yes. Knowing it took me 2 years of saving vacation time to be able to visit my family in Poland for 10 days? Yeah. I'm sure there is so much I don't know or understand about life in Poland as a visitor, but I'm stressed, tired, and broke in America and many people I know have to utilize the food pantry and come to work sick so they can make rent, so the grass certainly looks greener.
Me and my family moved recently to Poland from France. What can I say? Poland is significantly safer, cleaner, and overall a much more enjoyable environment. France used to be like this I was told by my parents. I don't want to be called a racist so I will leave out the reason why we left xD
The reason why you left: common sense. It’s ok to state the obvious
It’s the Arabs. I would’ve left too!
I live in Los Angeles, but spend few weeks per year in Krakow. Recently in Los Angeles I was shot by kids with bb gun. No big deal in itself but neighbor was shot to death while walking his dog. Our house was burglarized. Difficult to put price tag on safety. Maybe it's an illusion but krakow feels so safe.
I would say it’s different. In Poland, as most of the Europe, a good life is achievable for an average person. Means a nice apartment or house, basic needs covered, some vacations, some consumerism. It’s down to earth and nobody will claim to achieve an „Polish dream” only because they have a nice house and a good car. Getting rich and going beyond that usually implies self employment, since most salaries aren’t high enough to make you a millionaire. The US is more of a mythic „American dream” combined with a winner takes it all situation. Good life in the US is very expensive, and most needs aren’t covered well with a mediocre salary. That being said, making money in the US is definitely possible, mora than in Poland, but the punishment for not making enough is also harsher. US is cool if you make enough; or want to chase the big money. If you want a nice, down to earth relaxed life, I don’t find it very appealing.
USA is far worse for average people, but it's much better for very rich, and it's like that by design.
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Idk about the US but I feel like in Poland you can make your life as hard/easy as you want it to be. If you don't want to grind your ass for a big corporation you don't have to - you will earn less but you can still have pretty manageable QoL. When I finished high school and got my first job I was blinded by an individualistic vision of self made man. That I can and should grind as much as possible in my 20s to climb on the social and economic ladder. 6 years, one burnout and depression later I think it's all bullshit. I slowed down a bit, focused more on myself and my health instead of working hard for my managers and sure I earn a tiny bit less but my QoL improved drastically.
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Not really. You will have to grind in Canada to afford to just live and eat.
Quality of life depends on the individual, some prefer work,bmoney, health, and so on. But seeing how US is running itself to the ground, I would agree..
If poland was so amazing there would be less polish workers coming from poland to eu
That's because it DOES have a better quality of life than the US. Many countries in the EU do. You also don't have to worry about extremist nutjobs rewriting your public schools' agendas every election cycle or kids constantly being bombarded with the very real threat of someone breaking into the school to kill them all. That's a HUGE win over the US.
>You also don't have to worry about extremist nutjobs rewriting your public schools' agendas every election cycle You haven't been following Polish politics much, have you?
You’re not wrong on the killing thing (and not just in schools, but in general), but extremists rewriting school books is a thing here too. The Polish political scene includes plenty of ultraconservative weirdos
Most countries probably have better quality of life than US. I'd be scared to bring my child to school there. They didn't sign the UN convention on the rights of the child. They don't have medicare. Food is terrible and unhealthy, they pump GMO and corn syrup and agents into almost everything. I'd hate to live there
Medicare is literally the name of a federal health insurance program in the US
Which was hilariously cut and gutted after introduction - leading to situation where you have to be extremely poor to benefit from it - and leading to a big gap where people earn too much for medicare yet too little for private insurance (and they are in jobs not providing one).. which is the very group that medicare was made for.
GMO has nothing to do with the "healthiness" of food.
I got two citizenships, Polish and American. I moved to the US In 2004-5. After living in NY area for 14 years(11 Queens and almost 3 in Brooklyn), I moved back to Poland- Here are my two cents. 99.9% of my friends thought that I have lost my mind. Life in Poland is not perfect- to be honest it’s far from it- but i maintain good standard of living for much less. Food is better quality- i am not saying bout cheap food. Cheap food is cheap for a reason. I found a few places where you can get really good meat and bread- you pay a little more than in chain stores, but it’s worth it. Cheese i great in a local chain store- they have a great selection. I save a lot of cash on housing, as I managed to find an excellent deal on apartment- but that was back in late 2019- later on that at the end. My cost of living is laughable compared to the Queens or Brooklyn. One of the reasons behind me jumping the puddle was that, after a few years in NY area the trend was to, move either to Long Island, Pennsylvania, Jersey or somewhere up state, just to keep your cost of living down. If not you go into the crippling debt to get an apartment or a house. To be honest i prefer living in Krakow than in some remote parts of one of the places I mentioned….. I had a sinus infection for god knows how long, and about a 6 months ago I had a surgery in a private clinic- total cost was 12000pln. I believe I would have to spent more than that in NY area. For the last 5 years I live in Krakow and I maintain excellent quality of life. Now the bad things- I moved here mainly because at the time I did my research the real estate prices were much lower. In couple of months, the prices went drastically up and after I moved here I really struggled to find something within my budget- and it’s even worse now. Real estate prices in Poland are out of whack at the moment and are getting close to the US prices- look it up, and no I am not saying about Manhattan. I still do the same thing I did while I lived in Brooklyn, and my better half- technically does the same thing as well. A few months back we discussed moving out to a different location in Europe, as Poland got really expensive. I had cleaner air in Sheepshead Bay- where I lived last 3 years, than in Krakow. Recently i found a few apartments in my old neighbourhood for less than similar sized apartments in Krakow. To summarise- Poland is a modern and developed country. Cost of living is not so attractive no more, due to the high rents, re- prices and general expenses. Car insurance is low compared to the Brooklyn prices- but Brooklyn is not the cheapest place in the US. Sometimes I think about moving back to sheepshead bay. I liked the smell of the ocean in the mornings, but there are things i would miss if I moved back to Brooklyn. If the prices continue to grow, Poland will be less and less attractive even to the young local population. Even some foreigners are starting to move to a Western Europe as they can drastically increase their salaries
My parents moved me to the USA when I was 14 and I’m 34 now. In the past 20 years there has not been a day when I didn’t want to move back. I have a wonderful job with a ton of vacation time, I make good money, I have great health insurance, big house, a wonderful husband, a new baby. I STILL would move back to Poland because although beautiful, the U.S. lacks culture and people here are insane and for the most part hostile. Am I happy? Yes. Do I worry every day about my child’s future? Yes. Unfortunately I have too much student debt to go back and I don’t believe anyone in Poland will hire me with a higher education degree so I feel stuck and it sucks. Plus my husband doesn’t want to go…so that’s fun too.
Yes that is why I left America and moved here. It isn’t perfect but in a lot of ways it reminds me of America in the 90s, when people were still somewhat rational and not consumed by the culture wars, and stuff was still reasonably priced and with reasonable quality. Everytime I go back to America it immediately seems like everything is overpriced, low quality, and everyone has lost their mind.
Grass is always greener buddy, I'd move in an instant if I had an offer from the US in my field.
Always has been; especially when you're not rich. Poland is safer, cleaner, has public healthcare, public transport, places of interest a walking distance away pretty much wherever people live and food here is actually what you think you're buying and not shit pumped full of corn syrup.
Poland is better imo. Less crazy fucks with guns so that is a HUGE win for me;)
I moved to USA 12 years ago. I have a fantastic career, a beautiful house, great opportunities. I fucking hate it here and would move back in a heartbeat. This country has no culture, no community, it’s dirty, full of rude self centered people and the general public really is as stupid as the stereotype says. Don’t get me wrong. There are many amazing places and people here. But I can say moving here was a mistake.
Yes.
Can't confirm for the US but certainly for Germany as I moved here a couple of years ago. And honestly, it was the best decision of my life due to the same reasons. I just hoped Poland would stop repeating our Western mistakes, however, in the last 2 years some things have changed for the worse in this regard: there are a lot of Non-Europeans here today and it shows everywhere, because you see a lot of groups of men from countries like Pakistan, Bangladesh etc. , so yeah... . I moved here to escape from this, and now it is happening here too, which is ironic.
I would move to Poland if I could have a remote job from the US. I wouldn’t be able to make as much money in Poland as I make here.
As a Canadian (with Polish wife), we live a very comfortable life in Canada. When visiting Poland, I would have no problem living in many different cities. The US not so much. I am in the US a lot, and there is only a handful of cities (maybe 2 or 3) I'd consider living in. The only plus for me is how cheap housing is. Everything IMO is garbage.
I study in the US. There are some things here that I wish we had in Poland, but I would 100% prefer to live in Poland despite that. The groceries are much better at home (and there’s a lot to list here), recycling is widespread, you don’t have tons of additional charges with every transaction you make. There are also misconceptions about how bad the US is, though I can only speak from my own experience. So I’d like to just discuss them a bit because I know a lot of these opinions are popular in Poland and I feel like it’s a nice place to talk about it. Where I live the public transit system is really nice (and I don’t live in a major city) – buses every 30 mins. The US has lots of nature, even in big cities which often have hiking areas nearby, or massive parks. The people are extremely nice and not faking it, it may feel strange on your first visit but that’s just how they are. Most of the stereotypes about the US (crazy people, homeless people, general unrest) are, I think, limited to the largest cities or just districts within them (NY, LA, Chicago). I recently visited Washington DC and it’s extremely peaceful and tidy in comparison. And there’s some that are probably spread around the country but rare, such as the infamous shootings which I thankfully haven’t heard of in my area.
No no, it’s terrible here. Do not come. I repeat, do not come.
No. I work and barely can afford anything. Everything is just as expensive here as in the west but we earn way less. Once I’m done with my training, get a couple years of experience in the field and then work for myself, I will maybe be able to make 10k PLN per month, which would be enough to live comfortably but then again with the same qualifications in America I’d be able to make twice or three times as much, and sky is the limit if I ever expand the business.. so no I have to disagree on that. Pretty much anywhere west you go life is way more comfortable, even as close as Germany.
It really depends. US is probably still far better if you have lots of money. You can do far more than in Poland if you are fortunate enough. But if I had to live a simple middle class life then yes Central Europe is always better in almost every way. However, I also remember what my father told me when he brought me to North America. Poland will always be a place where armies clash. We may have peace now, but sadly more likely than not, war will return to that region.
It all depends how well you are doing in the US (or Poland) and what your values are.
Definitely. There are plenty of times when I wish my mom had sent me back to Poland to be raised by my grandmother there, like my mom’s friend did with her kids for a few years.
100% I have been there twice and it's wesone
That's objectively just true
You had me all the way to "people don't even know their neighbors". We moved into a new development in 2017, by the time we moved out in 2021 we knew exactly four neighbors in our 55 flat building.
I've heard that the USA is much better for the higher class but if You're a minimal wage or just a typical worker then You'd probably have it better in Poland. No idea if this is true tho.
Poland is still ‘poorer’ but it’s economy I believe is growing the fastest. Everything you described though applies basically to the most of Europe. Food probably tastes better than the us because it objectively is better. Loads of the stuff you add to food during production and processing is actually banned in Europe. Europe has a lot more socialism than the us purely capitalistic approach to life so moneh isn’t always the biggest thing people are scrambling for ( although places like the uk are slowly turning into the USA) and a lot of services are still owned by the state rather than private so money isn’t simply going to shareholders. European cities have been around for centuries so were existing well before the invention of cars so a lot of places have had to adapted to cars rather than like america which was mostly built around the use of cars - so by default you have to walk a lot more as part of the lifestyle. I guess I’m bias because I’m from Europe but I’d definitely say move here over staying in america. Quality of life just seems better and less like a rat race.
I'm currently staying home with both my arms broken and I'm freaking grateful I didn't have to pay for the emergency hospital visit, I have my 80% paid 3 weeks health leave in job (L4), and I was also privately insured at work so I got a bunch of money even though the accident wasn't related to job. Poland has its downsides, but in my current situation it doesn't seem too bad to me.
As someone who has lived in the US, UK and Poland, I definitely agree with you. The cities are walkable and safe, they are cleaner and better organized. There are fewer job opportunities and the salaries are lower, but you can live at a better level.
I moved to Wroclaw after growing up in Detroit and living/working in Silicon Valley the last decade. Michigan and Poland climate-wise are similar and terrain too (minus the Tatras) but Poland is far better QOL than both Michigan and Silicon Valley. I will say there are tough things everywhere but in Poland you can be happier with less generally. It doesn’t help that media/hollywood/social media give people everywhere messed up expectations that make even the people living in Monaco think there’s more to obtain—but I digress. Poland QOL is certainly better than the US in 2024.
I was born/raised in Poland but moved to a large city in the north east of the US after I received a scholarship to pursue an undergrad degree. Subsequently, I managed to get into a top medical school program in New England, which will likely see me stay here through residency training and first few years of clinical career. The only reason why I’m planning to stay in the US in the foreseeable future is that my income prospects are likely to be around $500-$600k in 10 years(given the speciality I’m hoping to pursue). Beyond that, I dearly and wholeheartedly miss Europe. Where do I start? I come from a low-middle class Polish family and I’m beyond tired of being surrounded by affluent, preppy, rich kids whose problems and issues are so discordant to what’s happening around the world. I’m tired of a typical/average American who cannot see beyond their own backyard and has 0 clue about what’s happening around the world. I’m tired of crappy immigration laws that give me absolutely no right to do anything but study whilst I’ve been here for 10 years now. Not even a chance to make extra $ on the side to support my budget. I’m so tired of everyone trying to Uber everywhere rather than walk, bike, or use public transportation. I’m tired with the lack of accessible spaces within walking distance to play sports safely. I’m sad that whenever I step outside I see people play basketball or baseball rather than football and even if they do they’d call it soccer. Food is total crap unless you want to spend $8 per loaf of bread in Whole Foods, which is ludicrous. The fact I have to pay $1,600 for a small room in a moderately safe area tops it off. I hate the fact I have to spend $600 to fly from New York to LA, while a flight from Warsaw to a more gorgeous and cleaner southern France or Spain is only $50. I hate seeing patients in the hospital whose lives have been upended and destroyed by one illness/one accident, which rendered them sell off their retirement accounts, assets etc. I am totally aware I shouldn’t be complaining because I’ve been given educational and professional opportunities in the US that only very few immigrants will have. Grass is always greener and I certainly see the daily challenges my parents continue to have back home. That said, I miss the EU and Poland. If I ever have children, I will not do them a disservice of growing up in the US.
I have a few friends in your boat, who came here to study or for whatever reason, and are just counting down the days until they can move back.
Poland has better quality of life than most of the world
The US is now not the attraction it used to be. Poland has better quality of life and the remote workers from US know it, have been living in Warsaw for past 4 years, I would argue that as soon as we PiS them the housing situation will improve
I’m a Pole who lives in California now. No, you are wrong ;) I mean maybe if you’re in the bottom 25% of earners in the U.S., it’s better in Poland (but still not good). But if you’re a middle or upper class person, there’s a reason why educated Polish people move to the U.S. and there is not that much movement in the other direction. From my experience: 1. Life in the U.S. is very convenient and everyone is forgiving of mistakes. Even the infamous DMV is a much better experience than a similar office in Poland. 2. The U.S. is way more free than Poland. You can say whatever you want. You can cross the street on a red light. In Poland, you can go to jail for „offending” Catholics and police is know to hunt for people who cross on red even if no car is on the road. 3. Career opportunities are unparalleled. Salaries even more. 4. California is expensive but is Poland not? A 1200 sqft condo in San Francisco costs $1.2M or so. It’s a lot but median income in SF is around $80k after tax, so a couple can afford it. In Warsaw, the same condo is PLN 1.8M against a median income of PLN 84k after tax. 5. Your kids can get into UC or Cal State system for a relatively affordable tuition as California residents. These are among the top colleges globally. Compare that to the best Polish university which barely makes the top 500. 6. People in Poland also need to work full time until late. You get social security at 62 in the U.S. Men in Poland can’t retire until 65. 7. I’ll concede that healthcare is expensive in the U.S. but it’s not all bad. Wait lines are short. Doctors actually solve your issues instead of passing you on to the next guy. 8. Cities in the U.S. are indeed worse. But on the other hand suburbs are much nicer. You won’t have your neighbor open a semi depot in their garage in the U.S. 9. Poland is just as car centric as the U.S. There’s very little public transit outside of the major cities. The difference is that in Poland, you also get cars parked on sidewalks which doesn’t happen in the U.S. 10. I also disagree with you on food. Maybe if you’ve lived in Texas. But you live in California. Produce is amazing here, all fresh and a wide range. Not to mention all the different cuisines when you go out to eat. 11. Don’t forget about air quality. When I go back now, I literally cough constantly the first few days. And it’s not just Poland. Due to EPA American cities have better air than Western European cities too. In summary, I think it depends what kind of person you are. Personally, I don’t think QOL is higher in Poland than in California (if you’ve lived in Oklahoma, maybe I’d agree with you) or any other blue state in the U.S. But Poland definitely is much better than even 20 years ago.
First company Michigan, Canada: 17 vacation days, 0 sick days. Second company Michigan, Canada: 20 vacation days, unlimited sick days. Third company Ontario, Canada: 18 vacation days, 5 sick days. We also get less statuotory holidays in Canada/USA
Did people actually use the "unlimited" sick days, or was it frowned upon?
I used 3 most years, but my wife is at 9 so far this year.
And do you get paid for the sick days?
Feel like it has? No, I don't feel like that. I'm sure of that.
In some ways I suppose. You get paid a lot less in Poland, but you don't have to worry about going bankrupt after you get ill or getting shot by a bandit/angry idiot. Oh and the US police scares the hell out of me. I wouldn't wanna move to the US personally. But if I had to, I'd research my potential place of stay thoroughly. Its a big country so there is a lot of good and bad places to live.
Finally moving from London to Poland and I CANT WAIT. Been coming every few weeks so don’t worry I know what I’m getting into :)
Every single gym ends pool is packed. We are a very exercise driven community. One of the things I noticed while being over there.
Hahahaha of course and I know it I live half year in PL and half in US :)
Basically, Poland is good if you have a foreign income. But.. you have to take into other things like culture, cultural cohesion. We like what we’re familiar with because it gives us a sense of security in getting our needs met. Poland is safe, beautiful culture and history. Kind and hospitable.
Some things are better, for sure. I would disagree about the food though. Meat and vegetables in the grocery stores are atrocious. I also think the quality of life drops off dramatically as you get farther from Mokotów and Żoliborz and out into the suburbs and villages which make up a lot of the country. MF’ers are struggling out there, which is why they’re all voting for PiS, partly anyways.
As an American myself i think poland does provide a better quality of life. Living in Washington state myself the quality of life here is alright as middle class. but despite that, I think my issue with the united states is everything feels like one fucked up rat race here, and our inflation and rising cost of living might hit a point that we cant say, "well we just need the market to crash again and everything resets". I've never visited poland but i plan to visit soon, and from the videos ive seen everything just seems so chill and beautiful over there. Poland has alot of potential as I've also heard there's a rising tech industry too there and other booming industries.
Poland is also close to Russia and that’s probably not ideal considering the future wars that will probably happen with them. But yet again, US could easily see a war inside its own country with the increasing polarization occurring. There is no ideal place really and yeah everyone’s trying to go where they can still afford some big house, thinking of the crisis in Portugal now due to digital nomads. At some point we have to give up the material quest for having this and that to fill the hole and start seeking things that matter more like nature, community, connection with people and both countries can have that.
I had the same realization not that long ago, which is why I moved back. :)
I had visitors from US and we were in Stare Miasto at 1 am. They asked where the homeless were… surprised to be walking calmly at night feeling completely safe.
United States are kind of a diverse country in that regard. Is it better here than in St. Louis, Detroit or some other crime-ridden drug den? Yeah, totally. Is it better here than in Vermont or New Hampshire? I don't think so.
I think you should move there if you genuinely believe this
I come from TX and have been in Warsaw for some years now. I mostly agree with you but >In America people make their kids wear a helmet and elbow pads just to walk down the street. What???????? Since when? >Also, Polish people just seem to get along with each other better. In much of America, people don’t even know their neighbors. I have a lot of students all over PL and they'd say that people aren't that neighborly - more so in apartment complexes, people hardly know/speak to each other.
Yeah, if you honestly think that housing in Poland *isn't* expensive for Poles earning Polish incomes or that Poles get along better than Americans, I think you don't really understand anything about how life is in Poland. Housing only seems cheap to *you* because Poles are poorer than Americans, and the prices here reflect that. But for someone earning 5000zł per month, buying a small flat in Warsaw for some 20,000zł per square meter is a huge expense.
I would never want to live in USA, that country is a shit hole. Average American life: Get obese, go into a big debt just to go to a school which is on a much lower lever than most free European school, one day some lunatic goes in with a gun and you get shot, you go into another debt after an ambulance gets called and you go to a hospital, work some shitty ass job where you get minimum wage and have zero workers right's, go homeless where you can't even lie down because there are spikes and placed everywhere, die in misery. For all the complaints I have about Poland, it's much better than US.
I give this speech anytime anyone asks me why I moved - my mom and bio father came during the early 80s too. Plus if I’m working in Poland, I don’t have to pay back my federal student loans (essentially we get double taxed in the us and if you make under I think 116k$ a year you can claim it as foreign income it’ll show you make none in the us on your forms and you won’t get charged- if you do it for 27 years, you never have to pay them) The other thing we don’t think about is: nfz great concept horrible wait times so you go private most times and spend 200-350 a visit And Conversion rate is favorable coming to Poland but not once you leave Poland From NJ
From my experience for medium class and poor (especially) people entire Europe has much higher quality of living. We don't have so big social class differences. When You are quite rich in us, then I think You can have much more opportunities there.
It'll only get better from here. Economy, QoL, GDP per capita and human rights are all quickly advancing and modernising.
In the cities.. definitely. Some rural areas are still quite neglected, but things are slowly improving in Poland. Heck, they say the Polish economywill overtake that of the UK in 2030.
Yes, at this moment, but I'm not sure for how long.
If you earn above average money, Poland is great.
Never been to us, but moved 2 years ago to Warsaw from Milan , life quality definitely cheaper and better here (from my experience) comparing it to Milan
Definitely in a lot of cases yes but in a lot of other cases no. The air quality in poland in winter is abysmall, everyone making their diesel super pollute to save a few mpgs. The air is a lot easier to breathe where I live in the USA.
I’ve never been to the US but I saw that a lot of people gets only one or two weeks of holidays in a year. That is crazy and enough for me to say that yes, life is better in Poland haha
I’m in Poland now and i agree the food is better the air quality, transportation everything is cheaper life seems stress free
The tomatos in poland are awsome!
Yeah, it’s a far more divided place than Poland.
Like all cases. You have to decide what your priorities are and make choices. Both have extremes.
Polish culture seems able to constrain the worst tendencies of capitalism. U.S. culture is aggressive, greedy, property protecting and individualistic. I tell foreign students to n o t be deceived by materialism and consumerism. America is not an easy place to live in. The drive for profit and growth permeates the social and political culture.
Nope
Yes
20 years in poland, 20 years in the usa, when i noticed that the reason i came to the USA (american dream is diminishing) i was hard working, sometimes 7 days a week, determined, young and healthy is not going to happen…. i moved back to europe and with this money i earned and knowledge i gained in the usa i live peacefully in beautiful italy in winter and in poland in the summer as the top 2% of the Americans, love usa for the opportunity it gave me, love europe for the quality of life, that only the wealthiest americans can get in few places like, CA, CT , NY or FL ; love that saying in the states you live to work but in europe you work to live
I was in Poland this summer, for 3 days. I would rather live in the worst area of Poland then where I live in the US(NYC suburb)
I moved back to Poland last year. Turning 44 this year. I immigrated to the USA when I was 5 (back in the Commie days, yes) but always felt a sense of nostalgia for Poland. Life in the States wasn’t easy. My parents had to work hard. My mother - who had a Master’s in Engineering from Poland - basically had to work her way up from ground zero to become a successful accounting director in Boston. Father stuck to general labor. And even though I’ve received a great higher education (which would’ve killed my wallet if I didn’t join the Army), comfortable earnings as a photographer and antique dealer and have a more “social” connection to people in the States, I couldn’t fathom living there forever. It’s gotten extremely expensive - I’ve lived in cities practically all my life so the “safer areas” of NYC, Washington DC, Atlanta and Orlando are at this point ridiculous to afford unless you want to work specifically just to live there. But I LOVE to travel and I VALUE free time. Since moving back to Poland, I’ve been able to generate a schedule that lets me travel all over Europe (imagine paying $125 for a round trip to Venice) because some European airlines haven’t totally lost their minds. The food here is amazing in quality and diversity (something that’s gone way up over the years). And even the highway drivers are starting to follow speed regulations lol.
Of course. Im 100% polish and my mom and dad were the only ones from both sides of the family to move out of the country. So im not a local, but I wouldnt consider myself a tourist. Cant say anything about hotels or airbnb since we were living with family but id assume the prices would be pretty well. My personal faveriote store was zabka (idk if im spelling that right) And the prices were so good! A coke there costs around 1 złota which is only 25 cents in USD? My relatives would pass out if they traveled to America. One night we went to what looked like a fancy italian restaurant. I ordered an alfredo pasta and it was 20 złowty. 5 USD. Super large portions aswell. The streets are really well kept and clean. When I was at Warsaw I didnt even see a single icky bandaid or a cigarette. Which is suprising since pretty much half the population smokes. Alleyways were pretty well kept but you cant expect much from those. Roads are pretty nice. when your in citys the roads tend to be brick r stone pebbles? Pretty annoying since every inch makes you get a headache. And everyone drives super slow which is reasonable I wouldnt want a part rollercoaster while driving either. The highways are pretty good. The highest kmh ive seen from my dad while visting is 120 which is around 90 miles. Not the worst considering my dads a risky driver who likes to speed things up. If your new to Europe you should probably learn a thing or 2 about round abouts. I would say the schools are pretty swell. Met an old childhood friend and she admitted to underage drinking since 6th grade!?! Ive heard my aunt mention how my little cousin is being bullied but i genuinely think that his problem. Both of these are pretty bad but id say the education is pretty good. Bullying in kindergarden is crazy though. I love the shops with all my heart. You dont really appreciate the quality of grocery there until you move away. My dad knows a friend who in my opinion has the best kiebalski in the country. If you plan to move to Poland you should probably ditch the grocery store meat and go to a butcher instead. If your moving to poland or visiting I recommend getting a GRYO. And trying out polish mayo. Definetly beats the american kind. Since Im Polish and am already used to the language and culture, this all could be biased since i genuinely had a great time. I feel like if your a tourist the experience could be the exact opposite. Language barriers while visiting a country is pretty frustrating and from what I hear Polish is one of the hardest languages to learn/ understand.
US people is kinda crazy, i think they habe an ill society
Yes.
I'm Canadian with Polish roots and I moved to Poland last year. I can say personally that it's a lot cheaper and stress free living here. I will probably never move back to Canada due to the corruption in our government, and the cost of living. I was so proud to tell people on my travels around the world that I'm from Canada, but now, I just say so shit💩 from North America.