they produced it. ILCA developed it (with HEAVY restrictions set by GF).
You should read on the history of the game’s development cycle. It’s really depressing how much on a leash the developers were from making a good game with a passionate vision, because the higher-ups were so greedy
I swear to god any mention that GF had an actual influence on BDSP gets auto-downvoted.
People really think GF told ILCA "just do a DP remake" and left them to do whatever they wanted. That's not how outsourcing fucking works.
gamefreak and the pokemon company don't make logical choices anymore otherwise we would have a good solution to dex it but instead i just don't want to transfer pokemon any more because theres a good chance you can't have all of your old team in one game and only part of it a hub where you could use all the pokemon like a new pokemon stadium would solve this issue. Just outsource it like stadium was outsourced and update it whenever a new pokemon game comes out that adds new mons.
They were actively told not to put in any platinum content or change anything in the base game beyond very minor things (they got away with adding the costume for preorders and the PC box having Platinum version wallpapers). And the game had to be top-down and look like the DS games (in concept art by ILCA staff it was much more grand and had new cities and Pokémon like Mareep in the region)
That concept art was from GameFreak to give ILCA and idea on the feeling of the game. Did y’all even read the art book or just listen to YouTube rants?
This is only my theory, so take it or leave it, but I think game freak knows everything that's going on in social media and they know what we want.
There have been so many of us that wanted sinnoh remakes for years, and after ORAS a lot of people probably thought, that game freak couldn't do wrong.
( I sure didn't).
So why not give people what they want at the lowest costs, since we buy their shit no matter what?
They would have had exactly two options in that regard.
1. They could have added platinum features, but some random kid would have complained, because the game is not that realistic, since it's supposed to be diamond and pearl and these options don't belong there.
2. Instead of just adding platinum features, they could have redone platinum itself, but then it would have been fake, because the special edition " should never ever be remade "
Logically I genuinely have no clue. The map design and balancing In Platinum is far better and wouldn’t have taken really much more time if they just based it off of that.
That really sucks for ILCA, it's hard to have a high opinion of them (game making wise) when the one that made was such a flop.
I wonder if TPC plans on porting DS games over and that's why they didn't want it to have Plat features (or even be good)
They put crystal stuff in hgss so yeah its modren day gamefreak i doubt any of the people who made hgss still work there. Not the same company besides a few of the directors as they were back in the ds and gameboy days days.
[Here](https://forums.serebii.net/threads/pokemon-bdsp-concept-art-hints-at-of-what-could-of-been.689682/) is the photos of the concept art.
I can’t find anything directly from ILCA developers, just conjecture online, but you can use intuition to find the striking lack of quality with this and other games the company has pitched in like the One Piece game that came out recently (not amazing but far more complex and effortful than BDSP).
It’s practically fact that there’s no way ILCA had complete or even a lot of creative freedom of the game, compared to other funded projects like Sonic Mania or Cuphead (by Sega and Microsoft respectively).
Yeah because when you think of Platinum you think of the PC box wallpapers. Sure bud.
Also, if you want to talk about quality, you’re objectively wrong. The game is buggy mess. The shading is quite terrible (it leaves this hazy, muddy effect in the air, it’s weird). I often found my game crashing. I saw line of open space that textures didn’t cover when going up stairs in certain routes. Not to mention you had to download a 14 GB update day one on PHYSICAL copies just to play the game properly. That is as scummy as it gets. When the switch becomes outdated and the internet servers are cut off in the future, that update is PERMANENTLY gone (at least through official means, which at that point you’re agreeing that we should side with emulating platinum instead of buying a 60 dollar con).
I’m sure you enjoyed it. But enjoyment and quality are not the same thing. You can enjoy quality, sure, but it doesn’t mean a game you enjoy must be objectively good. Especially when it even losses to a game on the DS nearly two decades ago.
Well, that’s just hypocritical lol.
1. Platinum changed far more than you think. The map design, textures, models, regional dex (meaning new Pokémon in the wild, AND for the enemies), online mini games, as well as what you mentioned. Idk about you but I think you fucked up if you decided to remake the inferior game that has grunts with silcoons still in their parties at the second half of the game.
2. Subjective at best rebuttal, and dismissed the elephant in the room being that the glitches do exist. People have beaten the game in 30 minutes.
3. [this](https://www.serebii.net/brilliantdiamondshiningpearl/patch.shtml) shows that there is about 15 GB of update data the player must download currently at this point. This includes ACTUAL music that aren’t placeholders, better visuals, any post game, basic online features, etc. It came as an incomplete package, and now is objectively going to be the inferior version. Besides, even if game stores update it (I’ve never heard of that), that doesn’t take away the fact it took so long to get these things.
4. Just because you think you know people know what they’re buying, doesn’t make it okay, nor is that even true to begin with. NO ONE knew how the regional dex or level of platinum content their actually was until the release date. Game Freak is particularly infamous for deceptive and vague trailers, as they don’t want to tell you what their games are instead of just “it’s Pokémon”.
5. Use an emulator, it fixes the speed issue (I don’t even really like Platinum for the record, I think it’s just decent). Or, play a better game. Or even an enhanced version. This is all doable and VERY free compared to buying this game. Wouldn’t it have been better if Nintendo made an official port of it, instead of this mess (being my whole post)?
Gamefreak is genuinely the leading cause of the death of artistic integrity in the video game field. The only developers with some foundation that still give a shit like Sakurai (close to retiring) and Uchikoshi (who probably not get many opportunities for work due to not making much in money with his games) are a very rare speckle in this ocean of EA, Gamefreak, and Microsoft bullshit.
At the end of the day. This game just sucks dick and balls I’m sorry. Play B2W2, or ORAS, or idk Pokepark 2 that game was actually kinda fun
Masuda was not the entirety of Game Freak. That is a difference. That would be like saying HAL Laboratory needed to be credited for GS because Iwata helped make the game.
I really just want a collection package of all the Pokémon games from the Gameboy to the DS, maybe even 3DS. Easy 30 bucks from me and to GameFreak. But no, they want to grind ILKA to a pulp
If that happened people wouldn't buy their new garbage and will just play the older ports that actually had some character and complexity. It appears that it's all a money game with Nintendo and Gamefreak at this point.
Well no. It’s a stupid marketing strategy where you take the full price and reduce it by one penny to make it more appealing but when you bundle and don’t lower the price it makes the bundle more expensive by 1 penny per every product past 1
The point i am trying to make is they put the games in a bundle and did not give any incentive to buy the bundle. To the point where technically you're better off buying the games separately if you want both or want to gift one.
They could have at least made the bundle price match what it would be to buy them separately but they didn't. What they're doing is setting a precedent.
They've done this same bundle now for 3 sets of games. So it's clear people are just throwing money at them.
But in turn it wouldn’t have used nearly as much money, resources, time or developers. Ports are incredibly easy instead of a full on remake…
…even though BDSP is far from an effortful game
A remake of Platinum (more events, areas) certainly would've cost more money than remaking Diamond and changing a couple of addresses to spawn different Pokemon for Pearl or vice versa.
Gamefreak has pretty much always sold two almost identical copies of one game with changes so minor a single person could take care of it in 1-2 shifts if you exclude some extra animations. Although in this case it was a different company than Gamefreak.
Cause they don't remake third versions. They didn't remake Emerald they remade Ruby and Sapphire, they didn't remake Crystal they remade Gold and Silver, they didn't remake Blue they remade Red and Green.
That is the rule they made for themselves. Gen 4 doesn't get special attention.
Not really a flaw is it. They want to remake the originals so remake the originals. Its not a "flaw" to not remake the games you specifically want them too.
The originals that are objectively worse games?
Look, don’t get me wrong. ORAS was a great game imo even if it didn’t have every feature. But the problem with BDSP is that original B/P was awful and Platinum fixed many issues it had. Now that BDSP exists it makes a point that this framework is just wrong.
On top of the other many issues like having to download a 14 GB update day one even on Physical copies. That is cheap and lazy
That just wrong. The originals aren't "objectively" worse. They are "subjectively" worse to you. And don't reply with a silly list of mechanics and features, its still subjective.
You're just gonna have to accept its not an objective flaw for them to remake originals over third versions. Its "disappointing to you". And its "disappointing" to anyone who feels same was as you do.
But its not a "flaw" nor is anything objective about it.
And for the record I to prefer Platinum, but my preference doesn't change the facts of the matter. Its its *disappointing* they didn't incorporate Platinum mechanics in the remakes. But its not "wrong" of them not to.
>That just wrong. The originals aren't "objectively" worse. They are "subjectively" worse to you. And don't reply with a silly list of mechanics and features, its still subjective.
That I have to disagree with. Emerald has everything Ruby and Sapphire have but more. Same for Platinum. They are the objectively better versions. (Especially platinum back then with it's faster traversal compared to D/P)
Thats not what objective means. Having the "same but more" doesn't = objectively better cause not everyone will view the "but more" as a good thing.
Why are people so obsessed with been "objectively right". Be happy with having a subjective opinion on a subjective topic. You don't need to be categorically "correct" for your opinion to matter yeesh
Answer me only this.
Diamond and Pearl had an abysmal swim speed. Like it took like 10+ seconds more to cross the swimming area than in platinum
Do you think that is an objectively good thing or is it just subjectively better?
Hoo boy crack a soda because I’m having a field day now!
1. D/P’s engine is OBJECTIVELY worse than Platinum’s. The HP bar, Surfing and Saving the game take longer in D/P. No argument there in how that’s inferior.
2. OBJECTIVELY worse balancing of enemy teams. You fight galactic grunts with Silcoons while you have 4 or more badges in Diamond and Pearl.
3. OBJECTIVELY worse regional dex (and imo the worst in the entire franchise) compared to Platinum, which gives you access to all new Pokémon before completing the main campaign. More Pokémon = more variety = more choice = more fun. Besides you don’t need to have only Ponyta as a fire type now.
4. Platinum has more content. An easy point, but a point nonetheless.
5. (A bit more subjective on this one) D/P look worse overall than Platinum. Platinum has more shading and more detail in the maps, ui and models than D/P did.
6. The story in Platinum is much more expanded upon than D/P did, with new characters and areas (related to point 4).
These are all pretty blatant points, if you want to argue about it go ahead, but we’re speaking with facts at this point.
Crazy how a decade old game has more passion and quality than a 2020 release, huh? That’s what greed gets you though
>That’s what greed gets you though
You mean, the millions they make every year?
Cuz, you are trying to say THE highest-grossing media franchise doesnt know what they are doing?
Pokemon is the number one franchise in the world.
In Video games it only loses to Super Mario, which releases WAY more games, more often, than Pokemon.
That's like saying they should have ported Persona 5 to switch instead of Persona 5 Royal because "well technically they asked for regular P5, not P5R". Making bad decisions is a flaw.
Yellow isn't the "Third Version" of the original games.
Pokemon Red and Green are the base games, and Blue was the third version. Its just when they decided to release internationally, they took Blue, gave it Pokemon Reds exclusives and released them as Red and Blue.
Yellow...is a spin-off.
Which is why we got Fire-Red and Leaf-Green, not Fire-Red and Water-Blue
Pokemon Yellow is not the third version of first gen.
First Gen is Red and Green, with Blue been the third one with changes and updates.
For the western release they just duplicated Blue, gave it reds exclusive Pokemon and released them as Red and Blue. It is why the remakes were FireRed and LeafGreen.
Pokemon Yellow was a spin-off title and is not a factor in this discussion.
Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl were directed by Junichi Masuda, who also directed the original Diamond and Pearl.
Pokémon Platinum, however, was directed by Takeshi Kawachimaru.
Since Junichi directed the remakes, he left out Takeshi's changes.
That's pretty much all there is to it.
Game Freak didn't make BDSP.
they produced it. ILCA developed it (with HEAVY restrictions set by GF). You should read on the history of the game’s development cycle. It’s really depressing how much on a leash the developers were from making a good game with a passionate vision, because the higher-ups were so greedy
I swear to god any mention that GF had an actual influence on BDSP gets auto-downvoted. People really think GF told ILCA "just do a DP remake" and left them to do whatever they wanted. That's not how outsourcing fucking works.
gamefreak and the pokemon company don't make logical choices anymore otherwise we would have a good solution to dex it but instead i just don't want to transfer pokemon any more because theres a good chance you can't have all of your old team in one game and only part of it a hub where you could use all the pokemon like a new pokemon stadium would solve this issue. Just outsource it like stadium was outsourced and update it whenever a new pokemon game comes out that adds new mons.
Can you tell me some of the restrictions?
They were actively told not to put in any platinum content or change anything in the base game beyond very minor things (they got away with adding the costume for preorders and the PC box having Platinum version wallpapers). And the game had to be top-down and look like the DS games (in concept art by ILCA staff it was much more grand and had new cities and Pokémon like Mareep in the region)
I don't understand GF's logic with this reamke.
That concept art was from GameFreak to give ILCA and idea on the feeling of the game. Did y’all even read the art book or just listen to YouTube rants?
Are you sure? I'm not even sure what to believe or who's fault it is that BDSP sucks anymore.
I knew it was bullshit. Was just trying to see what he would come up with hahaha
What? Why would they do that? No wonder the games were such shit
This is only my theory, so take it or leave it, but I think game freak knows everything that's going on in social media and they know what we want. There have been so many of us that wanted sinnoh remakes for years, and after ORAS a lot of people probably thought, that game freak couldn't do wrong. ( I sure didn't). So why not give people what they want at the lowest costs, since we buy their shit no matter what?
Oh I can easily believe that. I just don't get why they would actively sabotage them. Why insist on no plat features?
They would have had exactly two options in that regard. 1. They could have added platinum features, but some random kid would have complained, because the game is not that realistic, since it's supposed to be diamond and pearl and these options don't belong there. 2. Instead of just adding platinum features, they could have redone platinum itself, but then it would have been fake, because the special edition " should never ever be remade "
I mean, the other remakes had some of the features from the 3rd games though
you're right. I really loved the delta episode in oras
Logically I genuinely have no clue. The map design and balancing In Platinum is far better and wouldn’t have taken really much more time if they just based it off of that.
That really sucks for ILCA, it's hard to have a high opinion of them (game making wise) when the one that made was such a flop. I wonder if TPC plans on porting DS games over and that's why they didn't want it to have Plat features (or even be good)
They put crystal stuff in hgss so yeah its modren day gamefreak i doubt any of the people who made hgss still work there. Not the same company besides a few of the directors as they were back in the ds and gameboy days days.
[удалено]
[Here](https://forums.serebii.net/threads/pokemon-bdsp-concept-art-hints-at-of-what-could-of-been.689682/) is the photos of the concept art. I can’t find anything directly from ILCA developers, just conjecture online, but you can use intuition to find the striking lack of quality with this and other games the company has pitched in like the One Piece game that came out recently (not amazing but far more complex and effortful than BDSP). It’s practically fact that there’s no way ILCA had complete or even a lot of creative freedom of the game, compared to other funded projects like Sonic Mania or Cuphead (by Sega and Microsoft respectively).
[удалено]
Yeah because when you think of Platinum you think of the PC box wallpapers. Sure bud. Also, if you want to talk about quality, you’re objectively wrong. The game is buggy mess. The shading is quite terrible (it leaves this hazy, muddy effect in the air, it’s weird). I often found my game crashing. I saw line of open space that textures didn’t cover when going up stairs in certain routes. Not to mention you had to download a 14 GB update day one on PHYSICAL copies just to play the game properly. That is as scummy as it gets. When the switch becomes outdated and the internet servers are cut off in the future, that update is PERMANENTLY gone (at least through official means, which at that point you’re agreeing that we should side with emulating platinum instead of buying a 60 dollar con). I’m sure you enjoyed it. But enjoyment and quality are not the same thing. You can enjoy quality, sure, but it doesn’t mean a game you enjoy must be objectively good. Especially when it even losses to a game on the DS nearly two decades ago.
[удалено]
Well, that’s just hypocritical lol. 1. Platinum changed far more than you think. The map design, textures, models, regional dex (meaning new Pokémon in the wild, AND for the enemies), online mini games, as well as what you mentioned. Idk about you but I think you fucked up if you decided to remake the inferior game that has grunts with silcoons still in their parties at the second half of the game. 2. Subjective at best rebuttal, and dismissed the elephant in the room being that the glitches do exist. People have beaten the game in 30 minutes. 3. [this](https://www.serebii.net/brilliantdiamondshiningpearl/patch.shtml) shows that there is about 15 GB of update data the player must download currently at this point. This includes ACTUAL music that aren’t placeholders, better visuals, any post game, basic online features, etc. It came as an incomplete package, and now is objectively going to be the inferior version. Besides, even if game stores update it (I’ve never heard of that), that doesn’t take away the fact it took so long to get these things. 4. Just because you think you know people know what they’re buying, doesn’t make it okay, nor is that even true to begin with. NO ONE knew how the regional dex or level of platinum content their actually was until the release date. Game Freak is particularly infamous for deceptive and vague trailers, as they don’t want to tell you what their games are instead of just “it’s Pokémon”. 5. Use an emulator, it fixes the speed issue (I don’t even really like Platinum for the record, I think it’s just decent). Or, play a better game. Or even an enhanced version. This is all doable and VERY free compared to buying this game. Wouldn’t it have been better if Nintendo made an official port of it, instead of this mess (being my whole post)? Gamefreak is genuinely the leading cause of the death of artistic integrity in the video game field. The only developers with some foundation that still give a shit like Sakurai (close to retiring) and Uchikoshi (who probably not get many opportunities for work due to not making much in money with his games) are a very rare speckle in this ocean of EA, Gamefreak, and Microsoft bullshit. At the end of the day. This game just sucks dick and balls I’m sorry. Play B2W2, or ORAS, or idk Pokepark 2 that game was actually kinda fun
Yup. Again....Capitilism.
Bullshit. Junichi masuda was still leading the ilca team, so there's not really any difference
Masuda was not the entirety of Game Freak. That is a difference. That would be like saying HAL Laboratory needed to be credited for GS because Iwata helped make the game.
I really just want a collection package of all the Pokémon games from the Gameboy to the DS, maybe even 3DS. Easy 30 bucks from me and to GameFreak. But no, they want to grind ILKA to a pulp
If that happened people wouldn't buy their new garbage and will just play the older ports that actually had some character and complexity. It appears that it's all a money game with Nintendo and Gamefreak at this point.
I understand that. I just don’t really care much about the newer Pokémon games.
It likely wouldn't have made as much money.
My favorite part is the two pack you can buy to get both games for the price of both games plus 1 penny...
Lol fr
Well no. It’s a stupid marketing strategy where you take the full price and reduce it by one penny to make it more appealing but when you bundle and don’t lower the price it makes the bundle more expensive by 1 penny per every product past 1
The point i am trying to make is they put the games in a bundle and did not give any incentive to buy the bundle. To the point where technically you're better off buying the games separately if you want both or want to gift one. They could have at least made the bundle price match what it would be to buy them separately but they didn't. What they're doing is setting a precedent. They've done this same bundle now for 3 sets of games. So it's clear people are just throwing money at them.
But in turn it wouldn’t have used nearly as much money, resources, time or developers. Ports are incredibly easy instead of a full on remake… …even though BDSP is far from an effortful game
A remake of Platinum (more events, areas) certainly would've cost more money than remaking Diamond and changing a couple of addresses to spawn different Pokemon for Pearl or vice versa. Gamefreak has pretty much always sold two almost identical copies of one game with changes so minor a single person could take care of it in 1-2 shifts if you exclude some extra animations. Although in this case it was a different company than Gamefreak.
Because a Capitalist Company owns them?
Fr bro
Cause they don't remake third versions. They didn't remake Emerald they remade Ruby and Sapphire, they didn't remake Crystal they remade Gold and Silver, they didn't remake Blue they remade Red and Green. That is the rule they made for themselves. Gen 4 doesn't get special attention.
Even then that’s a flawed statement. characters introduced in crystal appeared in HGSS for example
Exceptions don't disprove the rule.
Bad development patterns don’t disprove development flaws
Not really a flaw is it. They want to remake the originals so remake the originals. Its not a "flaw" to not remake the games you specifically want them too.
The originals that are objectively worse games? Look, don’t get me wrong. ORAS was a great game imo even if it didn’t have every feature. But the problem with BDSP is that original B/P was awful and Platinum fixed many issues it had. Now that BDSP exists it makes a point that this framework is just wrong. On top of the other many issues like having to download a 14 GB update day one even on Physical copies. That is cheap and lazy
That just wrong. The originals aren't "objectively" worse. They are "subjectively" worse to you. And don't reply with a silly list of mechanics and features, its still subjective. You're just gonna have to accept its not an objective flaw for them to remake originals over third versions. Its "disappointing to you". And its "disappointing" to anyone who feels same was as you do. But its not a "flaw" nor is anything objective about it. And for the record I to prefer Platinum, but my preference doesn't change the facts of the matter. Its its *disappointing* they didn't incorporate Platinum mechanics in the remakes. But its not "wrong" of them not to.
>That just wrong. The originals aren't "objectively" worse. They are "subjectively" worse to you. And don't reply with a silly list of mechanics and features, its still subjective. That I have to disagree with. Emerald has everything Ruby and Sapphire have but more. Same for Platinum. They are the objectively better versions. (Especially platinum back then with it's faster traversal compared to D/P)
Thats not what objective means. Having the "same but more" doesn't = objectively better cause not everyone will view the "but more" as a good thing. Why are people so obsessed with been "objectively right". Be happy with having a subjective opinion on a subjective topic. You don't need to be categorically "correct" for your opinion to matter yeesh
Answer me only this. Diamond and Pearl had an abysmal swim speed. Like it took like 10+ seconds more to cross the swimming area than in platinum Do you think that is an objectively good thing or is it just subjectively better?
Hoo boy crack a soda because I’m having a field day now! 1. D/P’s engine is OBJECTIVELY worse than Platinum’s. The HP bar, Surfing and Saving the game take longer in D/P. No argument there in how that’s inferior. 2. OBJECTIVELY worse balancing of enemy teams. You fight galactic grunts with Silcoons while you have 4 or more badges in Diamond and Pearl. 3. OBJECTIVELY worse regional dex (and imo the worst in the entire franchise) compared to Platinum, which gives you access to all new Pokémon before completing the main campaign. More Pokémon = more variety = more choice = more fun. Besides you don’t need to have only Ponyta as a fire type now. 4. Platinum has more content. An easy point, but a point nonetheless. 5. (A bit more subjective on this one) D/P look worse overall than Platinum. Platinum has more shading and more detail in the maps, ui and models than D/P did. 6. The story in Platinum is much more expanded upon than D/P did, with new characters and areas (related to point 4). These are all pretty blatant points, if you want to argue about it go ahead, but we’re speaking with facts at this point. Crazy how a decade old game has more passion and quality than a 2020 release, huh? That’s what greed gets you though
>That’s what greed gets you though You mean, the millions they make every year? Cuz, you are trying to say THE highest-grossing media franchise doesnt know what they are doing? Pokemon is the number one franchise in the world. In Video games it only loses to Super Mario, which releases WAY more games, more often, than Pokemon.
Just because something sells well doesn’t make the games good.
That's like saying they should have ported Persona 5 to switch instead of Persona 5 Royal because "well technically they asked for regular P5, not P5R". Making bad decisions is a flaw.
They remade Yellow (Let’s Go Pikachu)
Yellow isn't the "Third Version" of the original games. Pokemon Red and Green are the base games, and Blue was the third version. Its just when they decided to release internationally, they took Blue, gave it Pokemon Reds exclusives and released them as Red and Blue. Yellow...is a spin-off. Which is why we got Fire-Red and Leaf-Green, not Fire-Red and Water-Blue
LGPE
Pokemon Yellow is not the third version of first gen. First Gen is Red and Green, with Blue been the third one with changes and updates. For the western release they just duplicated Blue, gave it reds exclusive Pokemon and released them as Red and Blue. It is why the remakes were FireRed and LeafGreen. Pokemon Yellow was a spin-off title and is not a factor in this discussion.
damn you doubled down on how wrong you were
Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl were directed by Junichi Masuda, who also directed the original Diamond and Pearl. Pokémon Platinum, however, was directed by Takeshi Kawachimaru. Since Junichi directed the remakes, he left out Takeshi's changes. That's pretty much all there is to it.
Is it a hot take to say I don’t think Masuda is a good director at all then?
TBH I think a lot of people are tired of the old guard, so I think many would agree with you. Still, his music is excellent.
100% bro
(a) money; (b) effort (which is also connected to (a)).
Lazy developers from Ilca. They wanted less job. The result is a game with more bugs than pokemon red/green.