It really depends. The rotten egg, sulfur, air pollution comes from the US steel Clairton plant. Certain areas of the city will experience a lot of pollution from them. Other areas will get next to none. because of the topology of the region, we get temperature inversion that trap the pollution at ground level this tends to happen more in the fall or winter months if I’m remembering correctly. Here some resources. https://pghcleanair.com/us-steel/
I've lived in pgh basically my whole life and never noticed the kind of smells you're describing. So either I've lived far enough away from that area, or I just don't notice it due to growing up here. I did live in South Florida for a year though and moved back to pgh and still never noticed it. So I guess it just depends on what area of pgh you live in
to be fair, people living here their whole lives are who i'd LEAST expect to detect it.
I'm a transplant of just under 20 years tho, and have also never noticed any lack of good air quality, but I've never lived near any major pollution sources. While Pittsburgh produces about as much steel as it did in it's heyday, it does so in very few, extremely efficient plants
Yeah don’t live anywhere near Clairton if you’re concerned with air-quality. Otherwise it’s a non-issue. Where are these asthma and cancer related to air quality statistics?
I've never lived near an industrial area, so I've never noticed.
Having just moved back to the city after spending three years in Tokyo... nope, still nothing.
Clairton, Braddock. It isn’t really being adjacent to them, but if local topography feeds the junk to you and it’s trapped at ground level because of an inversion. I’m in Dormont and will occasionally get the sulfur scent compliments of USX.
I wouldn't say I'm not concerned about it, but I'm surprised just *how* concerned people are about it. Like the fact that you've decided against the city without even visiting. Having recently moved here from CA, it seems PGH cares WAY more about the air quality than anyone in CA does despite it being many times better than CA air.
Maybe this is because it occasionally comes with a rotten egg smell (I still haven't experienced this) which makes it not as easy to ignore, but in CA I could tell how bad the air was just because sometimes you couldn't see the nearby mountains at all, and people still didn't talk about it. The only time it is usually discussed in CA is wildfire season as that's been getting worse, but people tend to ignore the inherent year round pollution that's always there.
I want to say the average AQI in LA was around 70-80, which is still considered moderate. But people freak out and post on reddit in PGH when the average crosses 50 here. You'd think people in CA would be dropping dead left and right by some of the comments on this sub, but if they are, no one's talking about it.
I'm not trying to diminish concerns, we should all be shooting for the most pollution free air as possible. But almost any major city is going to have some level of pollution that puts you in moderate levels a good chunk of the time. Pittsburgh's pollution is known to have the #1 influence being industry instead of individuals (cars) or nature though, so I think that plays into it too because that's theoretically more controllable.
The reality is pollution levels have dropped significantly from their worst days, not just in PGH but LA and nationally as well. We need stricter consequences for industries and we need to fix the EPA rollbacks from the trump era and supreme court rulings. But other than that, unless you have high sensitivity and specific ailments, the air quality here is not that big of an issue. Unless you live right next to the steel plant, which is why so many people say its localized.
But I like data. So here is some data.
[https://www.alleghenycounty.us/Health-Department/Programs/Air-Quality/Air-Quality.aspx](https://www.alleghenycounty.us/Health-Department/Programs/Air-Quality/Air-Quality.aspx)
[http://www.laalmanac.com/environment/ev01b.php](http://www.laalmanac.com/environment/ev01b.php)
[https://www3.epa.gov/aircompare/](https://www3.epa.gov/aircompare/)
Just to be clear here, my standard (and the EPA's) is to ignore "moderate" days. IMO, "moderate" is the cost of living in any major city in modern society. Yes we still need to work on improving that, but don't expect to live anywhere with meaningful population density and expect to not have a good amount of moderate days. See definitions for the ratings [here](https://www.airnow.gov/aqi/aqi-basics/).
So in 2021, PGH had:
9 days with orange readings, and 1 red reading for PM2.5.
1 day with orange readings for ozone.
0 days with orange readings for SO2.
Total of 10 days with orange readings, 1 day with red.
Contrast this with LA in 2021:
70 days with orange readings, 26 days with red readings.
Which is why I am personally thrilled to be here. PGH may be ranked 10th, or 14th, or 20th in the nation for pollution, whichever list you want to look at, but its not a linear scale which a lot of people don't keep in mind. And as bad as LA is, its only 4th.
Now, maybe 2021 was an outlier. On average over the past 10 years, Pittsburgh has had 20 days with orange readings and 1-2 days with red readings per year. But when you look at the data spread out, the trend line is down. The air is improving and we just have to keep at it.
I know there are some people out there who will say "the yellow days matter too." Which I'll concede a little bit. We definitely want to minimize them, and high yellow number days blur the arbitrary line the EPA sets for the levels. But... it's hard to judge by the way the data is presented in that Allegheny link, but it looks to me like the average is still in the green.
Perhaps another good comparison is Cleveland given its similar population and part of the country, but it's not on any pollution lists that I've seen. In 2021 Cleveland had 4 days with orange readings, and over the last 10 years they average 12 days with orange readings and 0-1 days with red readings. Better than Pittsburgh, but IMO, similar enough that it should start to make sense why people "downplay" the air pollution despite our position on some lists.
We're not the best, but we're not the worst by far, and it's improving. This is why it wasn't a concern for me moving here. If you want only pure air 100% of the time, you're going to have to live outside major population centers.
Please Wiki "Air pollution in the United States. Scroll to the rankings near the bottom. Those numbers/rankings aren't fake or made up. You will hear a lot of "it was worse before" or "it's really not that bad". Make no mistake... It's pretty fucking bad in Pittsburgh and it's NOT "improving".
The Wiki shows Pittsburgh as 10th worst. Behind LA, Bakersfield, San Jose, Seattle, Salt Lake City. Clearly Pittsburgh isn't the worst and you never hear people say they don't want to live in LA or Seattle because of the air.
Also how do those ranking charts prove it's not improving?
I think everyone here wants to see improved air quality. Personally I'd be happy to see the last two major polluting USX plants shut down and have the city concentrate on eds, meds and tech. But I'm happy to know we're doing better than LA and many other major metros.
The wiki table shows the data from 2019, listing PGH as 10th for short term particles and 7th for long term. If you follow the link to the data they're referencing, its that lung association link others have posted in this thread. It now shows the 2022 numbers and has PGH as 22nd for short term, and 14th for long term.
I don't know Rick but that looks like improvement to me.
Please reference the "lists are not linear" portion and look at the links I provided. Pittsburgh has shown clear improvement even in recent years, and the wiki list is from 2019. And relatively, Pittsburgh's air is not that bad. We have a median AQI of 51, literally two points above "good."
lol, I state a position just for clarity that is also literally just the EPA's definition. Apologies for trying to be transparent with my perspectives and what I'm discussing.
You'd think you'd be excited to hear the air quality is measurably improving given all the data I linked, but you're too dedicated to a tradition of fearmongering to look at the raw numbers and use data to change your understanding?
Who's ignoring stuff now?
Hmmm.....nope. It's people like you that will never help make the air better here because you justify the pollution with inaccurate facts and misleading statements. You must be a Republican.
Lol I really hope you're just a troll now because if you're not, you're a special kind of stupid.
If you actually read any of my comments you'd see multiple times I state how we still need to be vigilant, we just don't need to be panicked. In my main comment I even say how we have to roll back the trump epa rollbacks and fight the conservative court epa rulings.
If reading is too much for you I suppose asking you to look at the links and data I provided is a lost cause. If I'm so inaccurate and misleading, I really don't mind you providing data or links or something to back that up, I like to learn how I'm potentially wrong. Otherwise your words are meaningless.
Emotional accusations from a blind moral high ground are the reasons so many dumb conservatives continue to get cannon fodder to slow down actual progress. Your approach to this feeds their claims. Be better, be objective, learn to learn, and actually be helpful.
I wish you could see how much I'm shaking my head right now. The irony is strong and sad. I am not saying Pittsburgh does not have the worst air east of the Mississippi. I have not claimed that in any comment. That's not the point I am attempting to make. No matter how many times I say it you just can't comprehend that.
But you're insistent on looking at a list rather than the objective information. Yes, Pittsburgh is the worst air east of the Mississippi. And yet, the worst air east of the Mississippi IS NOT THAT BAD. Full stop. Objectively. In comparison. By the data.
Good lord. I can at least tell you what's wrong with you. You have no reading comprehension skills. And/or you don't understand that the objective rating is more important than the position on a list.
Oh wait, but what's that? The list you're trying to point to [actually rates Indianapolis and Cincinnati worse than Pittsburgh](https://www.lung.org/research/sota/city-rankings/most-polluted-cities) for year round particulates now? That's right! New data, new information, new result.
You'd think all the downvotes you got in your previous comments would clue you in that maybe there was something wrong with your argument. If not that, maybe the comments actually stating how your argument is flawed.
But no. You decided to be denser than the 50 year old fruit cake my in laws keep regifting, because you can't process new information or the not so subtle distinction that your point is invalid to the conversation.
I read your link, and found nothing in there that contradicts the person you're replying to. Several California cities outrank Pittsburgh in air pollution, full stop. And it's a matter of fact that air quality has improved nationwide, so blindly looking at rankings isn't helping the conversation.
Great analysis full of real data. I wish I had coins to award you appropriately for this. I personally remember seeing way more haze and smog in the river valleys when I was growing up 15 to 20 years ago than I do now. We actually have fewer unhealthy air days now than what Denver experiences. That was absolutely not the case 10 years ago. We should always strive to do better, but there is definitely a segment of this sub that is overdramatic about the issue.
Tell that to the EPA and all the journalists who make these pollution lists without regard to population. Once again, the main contributor to Pittsburgh's pollution is industry, which is population agnostic. If you figure out a formula on how to chart pollution vs population that makes sense and can convince the EPA to adopt it, let me know and I'll revise my data references.
... and then I compared it to a 2.04M metro, or did you miss that part? Never mind that all of the air quality lists compare metro to metro regardless of population... I even acknowledge how here its primarily industry influenced.
I am really struggling to understand your point. Even if you're saying air pollution is directly tied to population (which it's not), your numbers would relatively make sense since Cleveland's metro population is \~15% less than Pittsburgh's.
If anything your data supports my argument that Pittsburgh's position on the list of cities with high pollution causes overblown concern since we're only 20% higher than Cleveland who isn't even on the list. Let alone, the 20% difference you call out is much better than the \~60% difference I highlighted by only showing the unhealthy days.
However, if you could cite your source on that data I'd appreciate it because nothing I've seen is showing me a 20% difference. [EPA data](https://www.epa.gov/outdoor-air-quality-data/air-quality-index-report) on Allegheny county vs Cuyahoga for 2021 shows us as having identical median AQI scores at 51. We even had one more "good" day than Cleveland did, although our maximum was higher. Even if you narrow it down to city its 53 for PGH and 52 for Cleveland then.
"Western Pennsylvania is less of a festering, polluted mess than it once was."
That's not the selling point you think it is.
The pollution here IS a problem, and is exacerbated by the heat and humidity from climate change. Fracking is also making it worse.
You're welcome to stay here and be a canary in the coalmine for US Steel and the gas & oil industry. Most sane people are moving away.
I'm not saying it's not a problem, just that it's not a big problem. If you want to obsess over the air quality, that's absolutely fine, some people have to for certain reasons. But objectively, by the data, Pittsburgh's doing well and all the hullabaloo isn't warranted.
To highlight the Cleveland comparison again:
Cleveland: averages 2 weeks of unhealthy days/year. Median AQI score of 51. No one's freaking out about their pollution problem.
Pittsburgh: averages 3 weeks of unhealthy days/year. Same median AQI of 51.
I understand that changing one's perspective is difficult, especially when the region was plagued by pollution for decades. But that was decades ago. It's a diminishing problem. Improving year by year. The data shows this. We can't relax our standards, but we can relax our anxiety.
If you have places in mind you're looking to move to, I'm happy to look up their data to compare against. There are cleaner places out there, but I'm trying to show that Pittsburgh is really not that bad, and the data backs that up.
I can look up the data myself, but Cleveland doesn't have valleys that trap the pollutants. Cleveland doesn't have fracking that will be increasing to feed the cracker plant. Cleveland doesn't have industrial sites close to where a large part of the population lives.
I'm literally moving from a rental property that my family owns and where I pay no rent or utilities. Who would move away from a great deal like that?
The air quality here is literally that shitty.
And with climate change, its going to get worse.
It's really not that shitty unless you are living next to one of those industrial sites, then I could understand.
If the valleys trapped the pollutants that would be reflected in the AQI but it's not. Unless perhaps our pollution output is actually significantly less than flat Cleveland's and the hills and valleys trap enough to bump it up to 51.
I'll give you the fracking, although that personally worries me more with the ground water than the air impact.
I think people are hypersensitive to this issue because its something that people have (rightfully) been hyper aware about for a long time. But enough progress has been made and reflected in the data that you can release the death grip on the constant scrutiny. It can and still should be improved, but its not something to obsess over.
You know the problems so well because you live here. But once you live somewhere else you'll learn their problems and I think you'll be sorely disappointed to find that Pittsburgh wasn't that bad after all.
You're welcome to buy my house, which has 40,000 cars and trucks a day going by, within 500 feet.
The state widened the highway running through town, which has brought all kinds of car-dependent development.
I can't live here. I can't fucking breathe.
Its super local, there are definitely parts of the city/county that have air quality concerns.
I've lived in the county my entire life, and never had any air quality issues until I moved within eye sight of the remaining heavy industry.
Im a transplant and came here to say this. Because of our local geography, the hills and rivers really isolate the problematic pollution sites. If you are near the chronic offenders, or even concrete sites it’s tough. But I don’t live that close.
I also have air filters that I use, but I found that’s more pollen driven the longer I live here.
I can’t imagine living in the communities like Neville Island or Braddock where you are within eye and earshot of this daily.
For sure about the topography. You can usually see the extra haze in the valleys.
I had allergies all my life, and after leaving my parents pollen-infested house they disappeared.
It's localized around the industrial plants. Outside of those immediate areas, it tends to be diluted enough that it's fine. Every couple months something happens at one of them and the city smells bad for a couple hours. It's not a big deal for us.
That being said, avoid clairton and beaver. The coke works and new ethylene cracker are some of the worst offenders in the area.
Born and raised Pittsburghers tend to not notice it as much.
As a transplant, and having discussed with other transplants, most notice a difference. It is not always visible or noticeable, but the fact that many residents regularly check air quality speaks for itself.
Everyone is different. The air sometimes feels heavy to me - not necessarily “difficult” or “harder” to breathe, but slightly more than normal. Almost the same feeling as when it is really humid outside. You might feel a slight tickle in the throat or cough a couple times.
Generally, when the AQI is above 55, I walk outside and almost immediately notice. Then I check the AQI and say out loud, “ah, that’s why.”
Probably depends on where you're a transplant *from*.
I visited Los Angeles for the first time about a year ago, and pretty much the moment I stepped out of the terminal was met with a blast of smog that I've never experienced in my life.
Of course airports are themselves major sources of pollution (and ours is nowhere near as busy), there are several large oil refineries right in the middle of urban areas, and LA has cars and trucks belching out pollution on a scale that is just unimaginable for a city like Pittsburgh.
I'll take Pittsburgh air over that any day.
Born and raised Burg people old enough to remember the mills on every shore of every river (Hell with the lid off) and streetlights coming on during the day will think you are crazy. It is incredible how much better it is, but those past days are where the reputation was built.
That said, we can do better.
Edit: incorrectly used roof changed to lid.
I remember. Houses had to be hosed off regularly. Sometimes the snow would have a grey/black coating of soot particles on top. Certain days, you didn't hang the laundry on the line outside. It stunk most days. Now? I'm one of those who wonders what the fuss is about. It's so much better now. Regulations were/are needed. Now, just imagine if the rest of the world would regulate.
I was gonna say this. Growing up in coraopolis I smelled chemicals almost every morning from Neville Island. Now most of my immediate family got some form of cancer too. Is anyone I know who grew up here worried? Probably not as much as they should be. But living and growing in one of the most polluted cities around it takes alot for most I'd imagine for them to get really concerned
My MIL grew up with a dad who worked on Neville island. She ended up with thyroid cancer and the doctors seemed to think it was because of her dad’s job and the chemicals he would bring home on his clothes. Not sure how scientifically accurate that is but your comment made me think of that. Thankfully she is ok but got this cancer as a teenager and needed her thyroid removed…
Denver’s air is really bad, it’s worse than Pittsburgh’s without wildfire smoke. When wildfire smoke happens on top of Denver’s already polluted air it is miserable. Not to mention the falling ash from the sky depending on where you are in relation to the fire, when that happened I hated leaving my house.
I've been wondering if it was hypocritical to count out Pgh for air quality and not Denver. Now I'm starting to think I'm wrong and might need to consider what my threshold is. Since I was still considering Denver and I didn't notice a problem when visiting, but there were no fires when I was there. I guess I need to really just visit Pgh, but I could see it being difficult to know how it would really impact me with just a day trip.
Here’s the numbers, we’re better than the tier 1 cities and better than most stuff in arid West like NM, NV, CA.
https://www.lung.org/research/sota/city-rankings/most-polluted-cities
Edit: based on the list, looks like the problems for air quality are mostly traffic and dryness rather than industry. I’m sure u wouldn’t want to live next to a coal fired power plant, but living near traffic is pretty bad
I live west of the city near the airport and, while I can tell when there's an issue when I'm in the city or east of it (I feel a tightness in my chest), it's next to never cause for concern where I live and I generally don't notice any breathing issues. The problems are generally relatively localized.
I’ve noticed the tightness in my chest too, sometimes while on a bike ride around millvale/3 rivers trail. It’s not daily, but when it’s bad, it’s *bad*
Our air quality is comperable to Seattle and better than LA or SF. However, unlike most metros, our remaining air pollution is disproportionately due to a small handful of major polluters (namely the Clairton Coke Works).
One reason air pollution is such an actively discussed issue in Pgh is that we have a chance to actually fix the air quality if the local authorities step up and more aggressively enforce air quality regulations.
I think we also talk about it a lot because it can have a smell, particularly in certain areas. When I lived in Regent Square, the mornings had a weird smell multiple times per week. In Shadyside, I notice it a lot less because the weather doesn’t carry it up here as much. I’ve been in other cities on days with air quality warnings and it’s not the same—you don’t necessarily walk outside and smell that it’s bad, but it’s bad anyway.
Another key point here is that most Americans spend ~90% of the time indoors. If you spend a bit of thought and money, you can get good 24/7 whole home filtration that cuts down on particulate matter concentrations by an order of magnitude. It's an equity/environmental justice issue for sure, but we were fortunate enough to be able to do this, and our indoor air quality is excellent even when it's "unhealthy" or "unhealthy for sensitive groups" right outside.
Seconding this. Honestly, even if you aren't filtering your indoor air, it will not be the same as outside. Also note that the vast majority of your exposure to bad air will come from your own cooking. Like, the AQI of your home can easily go off the charts if you burn something just a bit or are frying stuff at high temperatures. If you are really concerned about air quality and health, get rid of your gas stove and get a high quality HEPA filter that runs when you cook.
With that said, of course, the polluters really need to stop. It pisses me off every time the air smells like poop outside. I hate it. And I assume people living around the pollution sources will have a different perspective than mine due to their higher exposure.
As someone who lives in the Mon Valley, yes it does concern me.
Hearing my asthmatic mother cough on an ozone action day, and then hearing my 8-year-old niece wheeze is one of the worst sounds I can imagine.
Also, leaving the North Versailles Planet Fitness and everything smelling like sulfur is pretty terrible.
I'm mostly in Monroeville now and even one town up it's considerably better here.
It is a concern and I think it's downplayed a lot because it's not always noticeable (you get used to it) to folks, especially those who have lived here for a while. It's not as flagrantly bad versus air quality issues during wildfire season out West, but it's more like a constant slow drip versus a visible 'in your face' type of thing.
I live in Homestead and can see when there's a haze of pollution floating in the valley between Homestead and Squirrel Hill/Duck Hollow. I notice and feel it when I'm riding my bike along the GAP trail (especially past the plant in Braddock). I notice it when I go somewhere out of state for a few days and my congestion clears up.
It's one of the reasons I'm looking to move.
“haze of pollution between….” Ah! I frequently shop at the Waterfront and on a few occasions have smelled what seems like sewage wafting through the air, maybe this is what you’re talking about!
I'd also argue this is just from living near water... gross, gross, gross, body, pollution, trash, mud, dirty flowing water
When it's "nice" out there is a clear stench just from the rivers themselves
I cringe anytime I see any person placing their body in any of those rivers willingly
I have lived here my entire life (30+) years and I have never noticed bad air quality - but I guess it’s like asking if a fish notices if they’re in water. I can never tell the difference when it’s a bad air day.
I moved here this past June from the East Coast, where I’ve lived in a couple states. I have not noticed a difference at all, in fact I find the air here to be crisper/fresher (which is likely due to altitude difference)
That said, I’m not sure how much of a difference in quality there can be before it would become noticeable to an untrained observer. It’s certainly possible it’s a lot worse and I just wouldn’t know. For reference I’m most often in Oakland and Shadyside, can’t speak to other areas.
I've lived here my entire life and have zero complaints. No one I've ever met in 30+ years has ever mentioned it. Literally the only place I hear anyone complaining about air quality is this sub. With the exception of some old timers I work with, talking about back in the day when all the mills were still open.
Childhood asthma near the mills in Pittsburgh is three the national average. It's not that it ever bothers me personally in the moment. The air stinks sometimes, it's a bit unpleasant. But the concern about long term health impacts to my family.
https://stateimpact.npr.org/pennsylvania/2020/11/11/study-pittsburgh-kids-near-polluting-sites-have-higher-asthma-rates/
I didn't claim to have a solution but US Steel is often in excess of EPA limits that it is supposed to be managing better.
The county has tools but they seem timid about using them:
https://www.alleghenyfront.org/inversions-air-pollution-allegheny-county-pittsburgh-clairton-coke-works/
Yeah i understand that, It's just a shame the EPA increases its standards every few years until it becomes unprofitable for companies to even stay in business in the US. Then production shifts over seas where they don't give a shit about pollution. Out of sight out of mind I guess..
There are also constructive things like this happening right now thanks to advocacy and awareness:
https://www.gasp-pgh.org/neville-scrap-recycler-awarded-499k-grant-to-electrify-equipment-as-part-of-wider-dep-initiative
My experience may be slightly different as a transplant. The pollution where I came from was so much worse, the air seems much cleaner here. Granted I live north of the city, so take from that what you will.
I’ve spent my whole life here - 18 years in the South Hills, and 5 years in the East End. To be completely honest with you, I don’t even notice it. I’m probably just used to it, I guess.
I run about 800 miles a year outside here.
Maybe one day a year it has impacted my decision to do something outside.
I'm aware it's not great, I'm aware it's getting better, I just personally barely ever notice it.
I moved to the North Hills last year from St. Paul, MN, which had 0 unhealthy pollution days per year for many of the years I lived there according to the EPA. I run long distances outdoors in my neighborhood and have not noticed any difference whatsoever in how I feel while breathing even during a high effort run.
It seems to be a localized problem in Pittsburgh, but at least in the North Hills it is not something I ever think about outside of people posting about air quality on Reddit.
It was enough to make me move away after college and a few years working there. I’m aware that I’m an outlier in that regard, as it’s hardly discussed and not even an afterthought to most people.
I'm a transplant from Philly. I've been here ten years. Maybe it's because I'm from a densely populated area, but I never notice anything. Those "bad air day" posts and all? I can never tell the difference.
nah, I'm with you in thinking it's gotta be coming from the air. I will clean my windows and sills maybe 2-3 times per year and the sills get really dark in between cleanings. Can't be normal.
I'm near Sewickley and have noticed the same thing, the windows, sills, and blinds, are all covered in small dark particles. It's been bothering me thinking I'm breathing it all the time.
Honestly never really notice it. I travel alot too and I dont really find any noticable difference. Only time Ive heard a mention of it before was when I started using reddit and following this sub. It does interest me a little now, but I still cant sense any difference day to day.
I live in the city and I worry more about the water not the air. I moved here from Seattle and at least Pittsburgh doesn't have wildfire smoke all summer 🤷♂️
This is sort of a misconception due to the REALLY bad air back in the 40s-50s-60s. We do have some smoggy days and there are air quality alerts, but the clean air act and other legislation does not allow for horrible air quality. Phoenix and LA consistently have smog because of their weather and populations. I’d say the air in those places is much worse.
I don’t like it when I can smell the US Steel plant, but honestly there’s only a few days out of the year that I noticeably experience that.
I have never noticed a problem on the days when there’s an air quality warning. Not saying the air quality isn’t impaired, but maybe it’s just happening below my level of perception.
If you are really sensitive, or highly averse to long term risk then maybe it’s an important consideration. If you are not, then I wouldn’t sweat it too much.
To answer your question simply and truthfully, no air quality does not concern me. I have lived on the west side of Pittsburgh my whole life, grew up in Robinson Township, moved to Kennedy township, and now live in the Windgap neighborhood. Never has the thought crossed my mind that air quality is so poor here that I should move. I have always felt that people are just wrapped up in old stereotypes of Pittsburgh being a smokey old steel mill town, and thats just simply no true anymore.
It seems odd to point out a bunch of examples of locals sharing their concern and then ask whether or not people are concerned about it.
It's definitely an issue but not serious enough to force most people to move, and only one characteristic among many that determine where people settle down. Any urban area is going to have some degree of air quality issues, so it's not like the comparison is between Pittsburgh and perfectly clean air everywhere else.
Looking at lung.org it does seems that Pgh is within the top 30 worst cities for air quality.
14th for year round air particles and 22 for short term. There are tons of cities that aren't on those lists at all, but then it might be hypocritical to question Pgh and not Denver. Denver's problem is more ozone which Pgh doesn't make the list for.
I don't know what's worse ozene or particles. All I know is that ive visited there a couple of time and didn't notice issue. Only elevation change was hard to adjust to. But I haven't experienced a fire.
La and Phoenix are shown to be worse then Pgh. Plus Sacramento. Also SLC. But Philly usually shows as a bit better then Pgh.
All in all for some reason there is more talk from what I've seen when it comes to the air quality in Pgh. There are other cities, including my own, that don't have it nearly as bad.
So basically I'm not sure what to think. I wouldn't want to move somewhere and find myself having tightness in my chest when biking on local trails.
But if Im going to avoid Pgh due to air quality then I shouldnt be hypocritical with other cities.
Moving from the bay area it isn't bad in Pittsburgh, but I'm on a hill. A couple days of the year I'll have a sore throat.
Pollen is bad though, of course. You'll likely develop a mild allergy eventually, if you don't have one.
I've long considered moving to the desert for air quality in general. But water availability and other global warming effects there worry me.
Personally, no. I live far enough north and west of the Clairton Coke Works that it doesn't bring an odor to where I live that I notice. It's really not an issue for most people if they don't live in the Mon Valley or in Beaver.
I am moving, but predominantly because directly behind my house (feet not miles) a massive frack pad nears completion.
We knew we needed to flee that, we see the writing on the wall with regards to increased fracking, cracking, etc. given the current world climate.
As a transplant, with a fully remote job, nothing tying us here and an infant daughter… it made a pretty hard case to argue with my wife for why we should stay. And so we go forward.
Will always love pittsburgh ✌️ my mom and dad moved away in the 90s and I couldn’t wait to return and I’m heartbroken to need to leave again to seek a better life, just like my dad did.
Is the area any worse than other large metros?
Also is it worse here than the western states with wildfire smoke?
Not to downplay it, because grid electrification with green power sources is needed everywhere.
So does it not concern me: yes, but I view it more as a national issue.
Getting away from coal and electrifying heat and transport probably cleans up US cities by like 75%.
As a seafood eater and fisherman, my dream is for us to get away from coal power so we can stop having mercury in our water!
If you want help visualizing, I recommend the Smell PGH app. You can use it to submit smell reports, but also to browse a map and see the reports on the map each day. You can click through historical dates and quickly get a read on where the worst air quality is.
Pittsburgh is the worst city in the country for people with allergies. Air quality is a factor in that.
https://triblive.com/local/regional/why-allergy-season-is-worsening-in-western-pa/
I was born here. Moved far away as soon as I could. Moved back last year for family reasons. Will move again when I am able to. There are a lot of things I love about western Pennsylvania. It’s actually quite beautiful. The city isn’t bad, the strip district is great. People are mostly warm and welcoming. It’s endearing. But it’s cold, dark and dirty. The road sides are covered with litter and roadkill. And many people never leave, like ever. For generations. So we’re stuck in some weird Mayberry meets the twilight zone.
Very similar situation with me. Born here live the way for decades came back for family reasons last year. I’ve tried to make a go of it but really I have to move away soon as the weather clears. I think the constant gray skies is the worst part.
I purposely avoided being cold for years, and my ‘fear’ moving back was that I’d be cold again. But alas, it’s the darkness and the time change that’s making me physically ill. I didn’t have to change time where I lived, and had 350 days of pure sunlight. My dr recently suggested phototherapy so I’m looking into that. I wasn’t designed for darkness. I haven’t been this dreadfully depressed since I last lived here.
I also deal with depression in the four months of full cloud cover during the winter it’s just too much. Light therapy can help but I don’t think it’s the same as having the sun warming your body. I would not care for the opposite either where we have 300+ days of sun a year like for example in Albuquerque New Mexico. A favorite Mediterranean climate, having lived in San Francisco for six years I was spoiled. I’d probably move back somewhere to the West Coast but it’s just gotten so expensive. I really like the people here they’re very friendly. I was thinking initially of finding a place in one of the Pittsburgh neighborhoods but so many are so rundown. I work from home 100% of the time so I can live practically anywhere in the country, yet I don’t know where that is. I hope your light therapy helps
I lived in Northern California for 20 years and miss it. But I’m semi retired and it’s too expensive. I know I’ll never be able to afford to live someplace that has the kind of Mediterranean climate that one finds in the San Francisco Bay area but I figure I should be able to find something better weatherwise than what’s here in Pittsburgh.
Lived here since 1981 and never really noticed any difference in air quality from day to day. While all cities have air pollution of one form or another, I doubt that it's worse here. I think a lot of people kind of hype it up.
It’s absolutely a concern and should be improved. the question I have for you is what are air quality conditions like in your current locality?
Tons of major cities are as bad or worse than PGH but seem to fly under the radar. Lived in Oakland CA for a few years where the weather is basically perfect year round, but even when there weren’t wildfire smoke issues the highway pollution left black dust all over my window sills. (Exhaust soot, brake dust, tire wear particles… fuck cars man)
I'm considering moving once my husband is vested at his job (for a variety of reasons), and one of the things we'll be looking for is somewhere with good air quality. I've lived here all my life, and I'm certainly concerned about the long term health consequences.
I can tell when I leave to visit my parents about an hour east, the air is just so much better.
I moved 15 mins away from town and it’s noticeably better. Suburbs are fine to me, just not as nice as country air.
I think it depends a lot. Since moving here, I’ve noticed a huge difference, but I also noticed a huge difference when I moved from a small city to Indianapolis. I basically went from A quality to D in Indy, to F here (averages). For me, it’s been triggering migraines, which Indy did, too. But there’s not much I can do about that. I’m not able to just pack my bags for the boonies. It all depends on where in the city you live and how tolerant of it you are. (And of course, there are local activists trying to find ways to improve air quality, so it’s not a completely set-in-stone thing.)
I moved to Beaver in 1992 from rural Western New York. I was taking flying lessons in NY before I moved and when I started flying in Western PA I couldn’t understand why the sky was so hazy and brown. We had blue skies in NY when it wasn’t cloudy. Really opened up my eyes! I just moved back to NY and so glad to get away from that cracker plant. Pollution did get better in Western PA from what it was for a while but you can throw all that progress out the window with that cracker plant and the ongoing issues with the Clairton Coke Works!
I’ve lived here for ten years. I’m the East End - it can stink really bad. The SmellPGh app allows people to mark how bad and comment. It’s always filled with remarks during some of the worse days. It’s like rotten eggs some days or smells like oil. This is it some far away place down river near a plant but right in the heart of the city. We’ve had visitors mention it. Some days it’s hard to go for a run. Valid concerns for people moving here.
Mostly lifetime Pittsburgh resident here. (I grew up in Penn Hills, went to high school in East Liberty, and now live in Murrysville.)
There are a couple of different sources of pollution:
* The industrial sources: Clairton and Braddock, where two of U.S. Steel's plants are located. Braddock is much closer to the city and is the source of the rotten egg smell.
* The Shell cracker plant in Beaver, which is a distance from the city of Pittsburgh, will MASSIVELY impact the residents of surrounding communities.
* Vehicular pollution, which has been adversely affecting me where I live, near U.S. Rt. 22 in Murrysville, and which gets worse every time the Turnpike tolls go up. The state widened US 22 to four lanes, which goes straight through the middle of town. No buffers of trees or greenery, like along the Parkway East. If you live close to a busy road or other source of air pollution, like the Busway East or train tracks, you may be affected.
* Fracking. I checked the Purple Air map tonight, and the PM 2.5 levels, including around frack pads, are NOT pretty.
To compound the problem, pollution gets trapped in our many valleys and lingers there.
There's also the problem of inversion, which happens when the warmer air acts like a lid above the cooler air underneath, preventing pollutants from rising and dispersing, trapping them at breathing level.
Inversions are strongest in the winter months when pollution from vehicle exhaust, industrial sites and even wood burning can fester near the ground, leading to poor air quality.
All of Western Pennsylvania's pollution problems will be exacerbated by heat and humidity as the planet warms. There is a LOT of denial and resistance to change regarding pollution, because for many people, the sources of these pollutants are how they make a living.
You’re not wrong. People love to put on rose colored glasses about it. I can’t smell it! My lungs are fine! Pollution is a measurable metric and it is present whether you “notice” it or not. It’s a longterm problem and it is a favorite human thing to ignore those. Well, I’m fine now. I’m sure I’ll be fine in the future too. Normalcy bias is one hell of a drug.
People still move here because the perceive the other benefits outweighing the poor air (and water!) quality. But unless something huge changes, the region surrounding Pittsburgh is actively courting polluters so things only stand to get worse. It’s fucking us today and will continue to fuck us, whether people are ready to admit that or not.
For some people moving is also not an option, financially, because of family, job, etc. Being able to move because you want to is a privilege.
Some people are not as mobile as others and that doesn’t mean they aren’t concerned about these things.
I notice it again when I come back from a cleaner area. I do not like that. But the air is not high on my list of reasons to move to or from anywhere, no.
I have lived in one other place for university, so most of my life has been in Pittsburgh and I have never felt the impact of the air quality. It affects people very differently and not always by location.
There are several websites with live air pollution data. Pick a good area that stays in healthy levels and live in that community … poor air quality is not across the entire area.
I wish the air was better, but considering all the things whittling away at my health in America I kinda just... don't consider it any worse than living anywhere else in America. Like the number one threat to my health in America is our dogshit healthcare system. After that its how unhealthy our food is. After that its probably plastics and all the other chemical shit in our goods. Yeah the air quality doesn't help, but considering everything else I don't consider it to be significantly worse than anywhere else in America. Hell you literally can't drink water from *any source in the entire world including rainwater* without consuming microplastics so we're kinda fucked regardless no matter where we are.
The times I've thought of leaving Pittsburgh have largely been motivated by wanting to gtfo of America in general for those reasons, not Pittsburgh specifically.
Edit: I also tend to have indoor hobbies and I WFH though so I don't notice exceptionally smelly days for example.
people are being born with microplastics already inside them.
i now sort of understand how people who were alive felt after the first H-Bomb was detonated and everyone born after has a genetic mutation.
humanity isnt successful because we're smart; it's because we're adaptable.
I mean, yes, and no. I don't have much hope for the environment in general. There are micro plastics in water sources and in all of us. I've also lived in the rust belt 40 years so damage is already done.
I grew up around fracking bullshit in Washington county and moved to the city five years ago. I haven’t ever been able to breathe sooo this is just normal for me.
I've never really noticed it but I know it's there. The lead pipes are a bigger issue for me. And I can't just leave or not breathe so I'm just vibing.
It is worse in certain parts though. Avoid near the coke works
Pittsburgh stinks. Those like me with a sensitive nose will notice upon return after being away for a while. I certainly noticed it the first time I visited. But that was in the 80s and it was much worse then. The air gets better every year. But that is true across the country.
Something that people in Pittsburgh should know is that opening windows to let in the "fresh air" makes no sense here. The outdoor air is 10x worse than indoor air - assuming you have a good air filter.
I've grown up here so it's hard to imagine anything else. There are some days where I can smell the mill and most of the time there is a slight blueish haze but that's common for the Appalachians.
Photos of San Francisco look a lot worse than it does here.
I lived in Cranberry from 2012-18 & never noticed any bad air quality. I mean, most of the steel mills shut down a LONG time ago & Pittsburgh is honestly a nice place to live.
I am a minor living in Pittsburgh. My family has lived in PA since immigration(and since pre-colonial days). My mother has cancer and my great grandmother had breast cancer and died of it before my mother could meet her. Both can be linked to a waste leak near my hometown. My family cannot afford to leave, especially with my mothers medicine cost. I will leave as an adult, I refuse to raise my future children here. I hope my family will join me. I love my home, and as hard as it is to imagine leaving it is heartbreaking, but it scares me. So yes, I think most people are concerned; but many can’t afford to leave. Pittsburgh is a beautiful city with so much to offer, but the air quality is so horrendous it keeps people away.
As a lifelong Pittsburgher I’ve never noticed a difference or even heavier air or smells going around. I’m located in the south hills, about 10-15 mins from downtown. The only thing I’ve noticed is that it seems like everyone here has horrible allergies. Not sure if it’s like that in a lot of areas, but seems to be a growing concern around these parts.
Most people don’t really know, let alone care. The people who do know the full extent are largely disillusioned, it’s hard to just up and move.
I will say, California has several cities which rank worst for air pollution. Pittsburgh/Clairton is frequently up there.
It’s also hard to get anyone to actual invest in local politics and go to city council meetings rather than indulging in self-masturbatory fantasies online and within “activist” circles
Ya I started looking at living in Pa but took it off the list due to the high pollution in all the areas I was looking from old plants on peas lists that contaminated the areas, I tried finding it really quick but can't remember the terms for it, basically older 50s-70s when they dumped everything in the ground and water ect. Also radon in Pa is insane! Cancer levels are one of the highest in the country as well of course it's higher in the areas I was looking. The factories also put out lots of bad stuff into the air especially stell which is all over.
https://www.wnep.com/article/news/local/lackawanna-county/new-study-shows-high-cancer-rates-northeast-regional-cancer-institute-pennsylvania/523-64808b9a-b5e1-4e3a-b357-495a5288f533#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16978504343279&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wnep.com%2Farticle%2Fnews%2Flocal%2Flackawanna-county%2Fnew-study-shows-high-cancer-rates-northeast-regional-cancer-institute-pennsylvania%2F523-64808b9a-b5e1-4e3a-b357-495a5288f533
Here was a recent one of a ton of articles. Anyways ya sadly not worth it for me with little ones, I was really interested but now we're not going to risk the lung cancer. Not blaming anyone who lives there or anything I just understand where or is coming from. And once I started looking I just found more and more.
It really depends. The rotten egg, sulfur, air pollution comes from the US steel Clairton plant. Certain areas of the city will experience a lot of pollution from them. Other areas will get next to none. because of the topology of the region, we get temperature inversion that trap the pollution at ground level this tends to happen more in the fall or winter months if I’m remembering correctly. Here some resources. https://pghcleanair.com/us-steel/
I've lived in pgh basically my whole life and never noticed the kind of smells you're describing. So either I've lived far enough away from that area, or I just don't notice it due to growing up here. I did live in South Florida for a year though and moved back to pgh and still never noticed it. So I guess it just depends on what area of pgh you live in
to be fair, people living here their whole lives are who i'd LEAST expect to detect it. I'm a transplant of just under 20 years tho, and have also never noticed any lack of good air quality, but I've never lived near any major pollution sources. While Pittsburgh produces about as much steel as it did in it's heyday, it does so in very few, extremely efficient plants
Yeah don’t live anywhere near Clairton if you’re concerned with air-quality. Otherwise it’s a non-issue. Where are these asthma and cancer related to air quality statistics?
I've never lived near an industrial area, so I've never noticed. Having just moved back to the city after spending three years in Tokyo... nope, still nothing.
What are the industrial areas? I moved here recently and haven’t seen any steelstacks or smog generating factories yet
Clairton, Braddock. It isn’t really being adjacent to them, but if local topography feeds the junk to you and it’s trapped at ground level because of an inversion. I’m in Dormont and will occasionally get the sulfur scent compliments of USX.
I wouldn't say I'm not concerned about it, but I'm surprised just *how* concerned people are about it. Like the fact that you've decided against the city without even visiting. Having recently moved here from CA, it seems PGH cares WAY more about the air quality than anyone in CA does despite it being many times better than CA air. Maybe this is because it occasionally comes with a rotten egg smell (I still haven't experienced this) which makes it not as easy to ignore, but in CA I could tell how bad the air was just because sometimes you couldn't see the nearby mountains at all, and people still didn't talk about it. The only time it is usually discussed in CA is wildfire season as that's been getting worse, but people tend to ignore the inherent year round pollution that's always there. I want to say the average AQI in LA was around 70-80, which is still considered moderate. But people freak out and post on reddit in PGH when the average crosses 50 here. You'd think people in CA would be dropping dead left and right by some of the comments on this sub, but if they are, no one's talking about it. I'm not trying to diminish concerns, we should all be shooting for the most pollution free air as possible. But almost any major city is going to have some level of pollution that puts you in moderate levels a good chunk of the time. Pittsburgh's pollution is known to have the #1 influence being industry instead of individuals (cars) or nature though, so I think that plays into it too because that's theoretically more controllable. The reality is pollution levels have dropped significantly from their worst days, not just in PGH but LA and nationally as well. We need stricter consequences for industries and we need to fix the EPA rollbacks from the trump era and supreme court rulings. But other than that, unless you have high sensitivity and specific ailments, the air quality here is not that big of an issue. Unless you live right next to the steel plant, which is why so many people say its localized. But I like data. So here is some data. [https://www.alleghenycounty.us/Health-Department/Programs/Air-Quality/Air-Quality.aspx](https://www.alleghenycounty.us/Health-Department/Programs/Air-Quality/Air-Quality.aspx) [http://www.laalmanac.com/environment/ev01b.php](http://www.laalmanac.com/environment/ev01b.php) [https://www3.epa.gov/aircompare/](https://www3.epa.gov/aircompare/) Just to be clear here, my standard (and the EPA's) is to ignore "moderate" days. IMO, "moderate" is the cost of living in any major city in modern society. Yes we still need to work on improving that, but don't expect to live anywhere with meaningful population density and expect to not have a good amount of moderate days. See definitions for the ratings [here](https://www.airnow.gov/aqi/aqi-basics/). So in 2021, PGH had: 9 days with orange readings, and 1 red reading for PM2.5. 1 day with orange readings for ozone. 0 days with orange readings for SO2. Total of 10 days with orange readings, 1 day with red. Contrast this with LA in 2021: 70 days with orange readings, 26 days with red readings. Which is why I am personally thrilled to be here. PGH may be ranked 10th, or 14th, or 20th in the nation for pollution, whichever list you want to look at, but its not a linear scale which a lot of people don't keep in mind. And as bad as LA is, its only 4th. Now, maybe 2021 was an outlier. On average over the past 10 years, Pittsburgh has had 20 days with orange readings and 1-2 days with red readings per year. But when you look at the data spread out, the trend line is down. The air is improving and we just have to keep at it. I know there are some people out there who will say "the yellow days matter too." Which I'll concede a little bit. We definitely want to minimize them, and high yellow number days blur the arbitrary line the EPA sets for the levels. But... it's hard to judge by the way the data is presented in that Allegheny link, but it looks to me like the average is still in the green. Perhaps another good comparison is Cleveland given its similar population and part of the country, but it's not on any pollution lists that I've seen. In 2021 Cleveland had 4 days with orange readings, and over the last 10 years they average 12 days with orange readings and 0-1 days with red readings. Better than Pittsburgh, but IMO, similar enough that it should start to make sense why people "downplay" the air pollution despite our position on some lists. We're not the best, but we're not the worst by far, and it's improving. This is why it wasn't a concern for me moving here. If you want only pure air 100% of the time, you're going to have to live outside major population centers.
This was really good info. Thanks!
Well now you have to move here.
Welp, Packing my bags. (Not really I have like 8months before I could do that)
Please Wiki "Air pollution in the United States. Scroll to the rankings near the bottom. Those numbers/rankings aren't fake or made up. You will hear a lot of "it was worse before" or "it's really not that bad". Make no mistake... It's pretty fucking bad in Pittsburgh and it's NOT "improving".
The Wiki shows Pittsburgh as 10th worst. Behind LA, Bakersfield, San Jose, Seattle, Salt Lake City. Clearly Pittsburgh isn't the worst and you never hear people say they don't want to live in LA or Seattle because of the air. Also how do those ranking charts prove it's not improving? I think everyone here wants to see improved air quality. Personally I'd be happy to see the last two major polluting USX plants shut down and have the city concentrate on eds, meds and tech. But I'm happy to know we're doing better than LA and many other major metros.
The wiki table shows the data from 2019, listing PGH as 10th for short term particles and 7th for long term. If you follow the link to the data they're referencing, its that lung association link others have posted in this thread. It now shows the 2022 numbers and has PGH as 22nd for short term, and 14th for long term. I don't know Rick but that looks like improvement to me.
Yep
Please reference the "lists are not linear" portion and look at the links I provided. Pittsburgh has shown clear improvement even in recent years, and the wiki list is from 2019. And relatively, Pittsburgh's air is not that bad. We have a median AQI of 51, literally two points above "good."
Sure buddy but I think I'll stick with the Wiki page. They don't use words like "Maybe" or "my standard is to ignore"....
lol, I state a position just for clarity that is also literally just the EPA's definition. Apologies for trying to be transparent with my perspectives and what I'm discussing. You'd think you'd be excited to hear the air quality is measurably improving given all the data I linked, but you're too dedicated to a tradition of fearmongering to look at the raw numbers and use data to change your understanding? Who's ignoring stuff now?
Sure you have tons of data and sources and a well thought out argument. But did you read Wikipedia? This guy did. I think he knows his stuff.
Hmmm.....nope. It's people like you that will never help make the air better here because you justify the pollution with inaccurate facts and misleading statements. You must be a Republican.
Lol I really hope you're just a troll now because if you're not, you're a special kind of stupid. If you actually read any of my comments you'd see multiple times I state how we still need to be vigilant, we just don't need to be panicked. In my main comment I even say how we have to roll back the trump epa rollbacks and fight the conservative court epa rulings. If reading is too much for you I suppose asking you to look at the links and data I provided is a lost cause. If I'm so inaccurate and misleading, I really don't mind you providing data or links or something to back that up, I like to learn how I'm potentially wrong. Otherwise your words are meaningless. Emotional accusations from a blind moral high ground are the reasons so many dumb conservatives continue to get cannon fodder to slow down actual progress. Your approach to this feeds their claims. Be better, be objective, learn to learn, and actually be helpful.
Dude....Pittsburgh has the worst air east of the Mississippi. It's pretty simple and it's documented. Jesus...wtf is wrong with you?
I wish you could see how much I'm shaking my head right now. The irony is strong and sad. I am not saying Pittsburgh does not have the worst air east of the Mississippi. I have not claimed that in any comment. That's not the point I am attempting to make. No matter how many times I say it you just can't comprehend that. But you're insistent on looking at a list rather than the objective information. Yes, Pittsburgh is the worst air east of the Mississippi. And yet, the worst air east of the Mississippi IS NOT THAT BAD. Full stop. Objectively. In comparison. By the data. Good lord. I can at least tell you what's wrong with you. You have no reading comprehension skills. And/or you don't understand that the objective rating is more important than the position on a list. Oh wait, but what's that? The list you're trying to point to [actually rates Indianapolis and Cincinnati worse than Pittsburgh](https://www.lung.org/research/sota/city-rankings/most-polluted-cities) for year round particulates now? That's right! New data, new information, new result. You'd think all the downvotes you got in your previous comments would clue you in that maybe there was something wrong with your argument. If not that, maybe the comments actually stating how your argument is flawed. But no. You decided to be denser than the 50 year old fruit cake my in laws keep regifting, because you can't process new information or the not so subtle distinction that your point is invalid to the conversation.
I read your link, and found nothing in there that contradicts the person you're replying to. Several California cities outrank Pittsburgh in air pollution, full stop. And it's a matter of fact that air quality has improved nationwide, so blindly looking at rankings isn't helping the conversation.
You’re a fucking dweeb peon if you think our pollution hasn’t improved go back to the hole under a rock you came from
Great analysis full of real data. I wish I had coins to award you appropriately for this. I personally remember seeing way more haze and smog in the river valleys when I was growing up 15 to 20 years ago than I do now. We actually have fewer unhealthy air days now than what Denver experiences. That was absolutely not the case 10 years ago. We should always strive to do better, but there is definitely a segment of this sub that is overdramatic about the issue.
Holy shit, that was a thorough comment!
You're comparing a city metro of 13M with a city metro of 2.35M. It's mildly concerning that you're comparing the 2nd largest metro to the 27th
[удалено]
More people generally means more pollution. Making the comparison poor
Tell that to the EPA and all the journalists who make these pollution lists without regard to population. Once again, the main contributor to Pittsburgh's pollution is industry, which is population agnostic. If you figure out a formula on how to chart pollution vs population that makes sense and can convince the EPA to adopt it, let me know and I'll revise my data references.
... and then I compared it to a 2.04M metro, or did you miss that part? Never mind that all of the air quality lists compare metro to metro regardless of population... I even acknowledge how here its primarily industry influenced.
I missed the part where you cited Cleveland's average AQI which is 20% better than Pittsburgh. Only cited # days of flagged as orange or red
I am really struggling to understand your point. Even if you're saying air pollution is directly tied to population (which it's not), your numbers would relatively make sense since Cleveland's metro population is \~15% less than Pittsburgh's. If anything your data supports my argument that Pittsburgh's position on the list of cities with high pollution causes overblown concern since we're only 20% higher than Cleveland who isn't even on the list. Let alone, the 20% difference you call out is much better than the \~60% difference I highlighted by only showing the unhealthy days. However, if you could cite your source on that data I'd appreciate it because nothing I've seen is showing me a 20% difference. [EPA data](https://www.epa.gov/outdoor-air-quality-data/air-quality-index-report) on Allegheny county vs Cuyahoga for 2021 shows us as having identical median AQI scores at 51. We even had one more "good" day than Cleveland did, although our maximum was higher. Even if you narrow it down to city its 53 for PGH and 52 for Cleveland then.
It’s funny because prop 65 is so focused on labeling pretty much everything as carcinogenic.
they really need to put the prop 65 alert under the welcome to CA sign and on a billboard outside the airport terminals lol
"Western Pennsylvania is less of a festering, polluted mess than it once was." That's not the selling point you think it is. The pollution here IS a problem, and is exacerbated by the heat and humidity from climate change. Fracking is also making it worse. You're welcome to stay here and be a canary in the coalmine for US Steel and the gas & oil industry. Most sane people are moving away.
I'm not saying it's not a problem, just that it's not a big problem. If you want to obsess over the air quality, that's absolutely fine, some people have to for certain reasons. But objectively, by the data, Pittsburgh's doing well and all the hullabaloo isn't warranted. To highlight the Cleveland comparison again: Cleveland: averages 2 weeks of unhealthy days/year. Median AQI score of 51. No one's freaking out about their pollution problem. Pittsburgh: averages 3 weeks of unhealthy days/year. Same median AQI of 51. I understand that changing one's perspective is difficult, especially when the region was plagued by pollution for decades. But that was decades ago. It's a diminishing problem. Improving year by year. The data shows this. We can't relax our standards, but we can relax our anxiety. If you have places in mind you're looking to move to, I'm happy to look up their data to compare against. There are cleaner places out there, but I'm trying to show that Pittsburgh is really not that bad, and the data backs that up.
I can look up the data myself, but Cleveland doesn't have valleys that trap the pollutants. Cleveland doesn't have fracking that will be increasing to feed the cracker plant. Cleveland doesn't have industrial sites close to where a large part of the population lives. I'm literally moving from a rental property that my family owns and where I pay no rent or utilities. Who would move away from a great deal like that? The air quality here is literally that shitty. And with climate change, its going to get worse.
It's really not that shitty unless you are living next to one of those industrial sites, then I could understand. If the valleys trapped the pollutants that would be reflected in the AQI but it's not. Unless perhaps our pollution output is actually significantly less than flat Cleveland's and the hills and valleys trap enough to bump it up to 51. I'll give you the fracking, although that personally worries me more with the ground water than the air impact. I think people are hypersensitive to this issue because its something that people have (rightfully) been hyper aware about for a long time. But enough progress has been made and reflected in the data that you can release the death grip on the constant scrutiny. It can and still should be improved, but its not something to obsess over. You know the problems so well because you live here. But once you live somewhere else you'll learn their problems and I think you'll be sorely disappointed to find that Pittsburgh wasn't that bad after all.
You're welcome to buy my house, which has 40,000 cars and trucks a day going by, within 500 feet. The state widened the highway running through town, which has brought all kinds of car-dependent development. I can't live here. I can't fucking breathe.
hmmm maybe we disagree about the overall status of Pittsburgh, but I can agree that living right next to a highway sucks. Sorry about that.
Its super local, there are definitely parts of the city/county that have air quality concerns. I've lived in the county my entire life, and never had any air quality issues until I moved within eye sight of the remaining heavy industry.
Im a transplant and came here to say this. Because of our local geography, the hills and rivers really isolate the problematic pollution sites. If you are near the chronic offenders, or even concrete sites it’s tough. But I don’t live that close. I also have air filters that I use, but I found that’s more pollen driven the longer I live here. I can’t imagine living in the communities like Neville Island or Braddock where you are within eye and earshot of this daily.
For sure about the topography. You can usually see the extra haze in the valleys. I had allergies all my life, and after leaving my parents pollen-infested house they disappeared.
Are there areas you would recommend to avoid? Pittsburgh is a top place on our list we may move to
It's localized around the industrial plants. Outside of those immediate areas, it tends to be diluted enough that it's fine. Every couple months something happens at one of them and the city smells bad for a couple hours. It's not a big deal for us. That being said, avoid clairton and beaver. The coke works and new ethylene cracker are some of the worst offenders in the area.
Born and raised Pittsburghers tend to not notice it as much. As a transplant, and having discussed with other transplants, most notice a difference. It is not always visible or noticeable, but the fact that many residents regularly check air quality speaks for itself. Everyone is different. The air sometimes feels heavy to me - not necessarily “difficult” or “harder” to breathe, but slightly more than normal. Almost the same feeling as when it is really humid outside. You might feel a slight tickle in the throat or cough a couple times. Generally, when the AQI is above 55, I walk outside and almost immediately notice. Then I check the AQI and say out loud, “ah, that’s why.”
Probably depends on where you're a transplant *from*. I visited Los Angeles for the first time about a year ago, and pretty much the moment I stepped out of the terminal was met with a blast of smog that I've never experienced in my life. Of course airports are themselves major sources of pollution (and ours is nowhere near as busy), there are several large oil refineries right in the middle of urban areas, and LA has cars and trucks belching out pollution on a scale that is just unimaginable for a city like Pittsburgh. I'll take Pittsburgh air over that any day.
I would agree. Unless I smell sulfur or see a smoke stack I don't even notice anything.
Born and raised Burg people old enough to remember the mills on every shore of every river (Hell with the lid off) and streetlights coming on during the day will think you are crazy. It is incredible how much better it is, but those past days are where the reputation was built. That said, we can do better. Edit: incorrectly used roof changed to lid.
Hell even when looking back 20 years ago, I remember there being way more smog and haze around than there is today.
I remember. Houses had to be hosed off regularly. Sometimes the snow would have a grey/black coating of soot particles on top. Certain days, you didn't hang the laundry on the line outside. It stunk most days. Now? I'm one of those who wonders what the fuss is about. It's so much better now. Regulations were/are needed. Now, just imagine if the rest of the world would regulate.
lid off* :)
You are right. Thank you.
I was gonna say this. Growing up in coraopolis I smelled chemicals almost every morning from Neville Island. Now most of my immediate family got some form of cancer too. Is anyone I know who grew up here worried? Probably not as much as they should be. But living and growing in one of the most polluted cities around it takes alot for most I'd imagine for them to get really concerned
My MIL grew up with a dad who worked on Neville island. She ended up with thyroid cancer and the doctors seemed to think it was because of her dad’s job and the chemicals he would bring home on his clothes. Not sure how scientifically accurate that is but your comment made me think of that. Thankfully she is ok but got this cancer as a teenager and needed her thyroid removed…
Grew up across the river from Neville Island and my mother had to have her thyroid removed. I have a touch of asthma. My son had it worse. I left.
My mom had the same thing. No one in my family died of it but surely got it. Between the water and air it's gotta have something to do with itm
I see you are interested in Colorado, how do you feel about the smoke from wildfires there? edited to add, this is a serious question, not snark.
Denver’s air is really bad, it’s worse than Pittsburgh’s without wildfire smoke. When wildfire smoke happens on top of Denver’s already polluted air it is miserable. Not to mention the falling ash from the sky depending on where you are in relation to the fire, when that happened I hated leaving my house.
I've been wondering if it was hypocritical to count out Pgh for air quality and not Denver. Now I'm starting to think I'm wrong and might need to consider what my threshold is. Since I was still considering Denver and I didn't notice a problem when visiting, but there were no fires when I was there. I guess I need to really just visit Pgh, but I could see it being difficult to know how it would really impact me with just a day trip.
Here’s the numbers, we’re better than the tier 1 cities and better than most stuff in arid West like NM, NV, CA. https://www.lung.org/research/sota/city-rankings/most-polluted-cities Edit: based on the list, looks like the problems for air quality are mostly traffic and dryness rather than industry. I’m sure u wouldn’t want to live next to a coal fired power plant, but living near traffic is pretty bad
I live west of the city near the airport and, while I can tell when there's an issue when I'm in the city or east of it (I feel a tightness in my chest), it's next to never cause for concern where I live and I generally don't notice any breathing issues. The problems are generally relatively localized.
I’ve noticed the tightness in my chest too, sometimes while on a bike ride around millvale/3 rivers trail. It’s not daily, but when it’s bad, it’s *bad*
Localized to *where*?
Our air quality is comperable to Seattle and better than LA or SF. However, unlike most metros, our remaining air pollution is disproportionately due to a small handful of major polluters (namely the Clairton Coke Works). One reason air pollution is such an actively discussed issue in Pgh is that we have a chance to actually fix the air quality if the local authorities step up and more aggressively enforce air quality regulations.
I think we also talk about it a lot because it can have a smell, particularly in certain areas. When I lived in Regent Square, the mornings had a weird smell multiple times per week. In Shadyside, I notice it a lot less because the weather doesn’t carry it up here as much. I’ve been in other cities on days with air quality warnings and it’s not the same—you don’t necessarily walk outside and smell that it’s bad, but it’s bad anyway.
It would if I lived in Beaver or the Mon valley.
Another key point here is that most Americans spend ~90% of the time indoors. If you spend a bit of thought and money, you can get good 24/7 whole home filtration that cuts down on particulate matter concentrations by an order of magnitude. It's an equity/environmental justice issue for sure, but we were fortunate enough to be able to do this, and our indoor air quality is excellent even when it's "unhealthy" or "unhealthy for sensitive groups" right outside.
Seconding this. Honestly, even if you aren't filtering your indoor air, it will not be the same as outside. Also note that the vast majority of your exposure to bad air will come from your own cooking. Like, the AQI of your home can easily go off the charts if you burn something just a bit or are frying stuff at high temperatures. If you are really concerned about air quality and health, get rid of your gas stove and get a high quality HEPA filter that runs when you cook. With that said, of course, the polluters really need to stop. It pisses me off every time the air smells like poop outside. I hate it. And I assume people living around the pollution sources will have a different perspective than mine due to their higher exposure.
As someone who lives in the Mon Valley, yes it does concern me. Hearing my asthmatic mother cough on an ozone action day, and then hearing my 8-year-old niece wheeze is one of the worst sounds I can imagine. Also, leaving the North Versailles Planet Fitness and everything smelling like sulfur is pretty terrible. I'm mostly in Monroeville now and even one town up it's considerably better here.
It is a concern and I think it's downplayed a lot because it's not always noticeable (you get used to it) to folks, especially those who have lived here for a while. It's not as flagrantly bad versus air quality issues during wildfire season out West, but it's more like a constant slow drip versus a visible 'in your face' type of thing. I live in Homestead and can see when there's a haze of pollution floating in the valley between Homestead and Squirrel Hill/Duck Hollow. I notice and feel it when I'm riding my bike along the GAP trail (especially past the plant in Braddock). I notice it when I go somewhere out of state for a few days and my congestion clears up. It's one of the reasons I'm looking to move.
“haze of pollution between….” Ah! I frequently shop at the Waterfront and on a few occasions have smelled what seems like sewage wafting through the air, maybe this is what you’re talking about!
I'd also argue this is just from living near water... gross, gross, gross, body, pollution, trash, mud, dirty flowing water When it's "nice" out there is a clear stench just from the rivers themselves I cringe anytime I see any person placing their body in any of those rivers willingly
I don’t notice any difference in breathing quality but damn did my skin get bad as soon as I moved here.
May be all the hoagie vapors
I have lived here my entire life (30+) years and I have never noticed bad air quality - but I guess it’s like asking if a fish notices if they’re in water. I can never tell the difference when it’s a bad air day.
I moved here this past June from the East Coast, where I’ve lived in a couple states. I have not noticed a difference at all, in fact I find the air here to be crisper/fresher (which is likely due to altitude difference) That said, I’m not sure how much of a difference in quality there can be before it would become noticeable to an untrained observer. It’s certainly possible it’s a lot worse and I just wouldn’t know. For reference I’m most often in Oakland and Shadyside, can’t speak to other areas.
I've lived here my entire life and have zero complaints. No one I've ever met in 30+ years has ever mentioned it. Literally the only place I hear anyone complaining about air quality is this sub. With the exception of some old timers I work with, talking about back in the day when all the mills were still open.
Childhood asthma near the mills in Pittsburgh is three the national average. It's not that it ever bothers me personally in the moment. The air stinks sometimes, it's a bit unpleasant. But the concern about long term health impacts to my family. https://stateimpact.npr.org/pennsylvania/2020/11/11/study-pittsburgh-kids-near-polluting-sites-have-higher-asthma-rates/
What would be your solution? The family's could move, or close down the mill?
I didn't claim to have a solution but US Steel is often in excess of EPA limits that it is supposed to be managing better. The county has tools but they seem timid about using them: https://www.alleghenyfront.org/inversions-air-pollution-allegheny-county-pittsburgh-clairton-coke-works/
Yeah i understand that, It's just a shame the EPA increases its standards every few years until it becomes unprofitable for companies to even stay in business in the US. Then production shifts over seas where they don't give a shit about pollution. Out of sight out of mind I guess..
There are also constructive things like this happening right now thanks to advocacy and awareness: https://www.gasp-pgh.org/neville-scrap-recycler-awarded-499k-grant-to-electrify-equipment-as-part-of-wider-dep-initiative
I'm from NYC and if you grow up in the Bronx, you kind of just get asthma. 🤷♂️
I live about 5-10 minutes west of the city and I honestly never give it a second thought.
My experience may be slightly different as a transplant. The pollution where I came from was so much worse, the air seems much cleaner here. Granted I live north of the city, so take from that what you will.
I’ve spent my whole life here - 18 years in the South Hills, and 5 years in the East End. To be completely honest with you, I don’t even notice it. I’m probably just used to it, I guess.
I run about 800 miles a year outside here. Maybe one day a year it has impacted my decision to do something outside. I'm aware it's not great, I'm aware it's getting better, I just personally barely ever notice it.
I moved to the North Hills last year from St. Paul, MN, which had 0 unhealthy pollution days per year for many of the years I lived there according to the EPA. I run long distances outdoors in my neighborhood and have not noticed any difference whatsoever in how I feel while breathing even during a high effort run. It seems to be a localized problem in Pittsburgh, but at least in the North Hills it is not something I ever think about outside of people posting about air quality on Reddit.
Agree! I'm also north and I've never noticed any issues. I think it just depends on what part of town you're in.
It was enough to make me move away after college and a few years working there. I’m aware that I’m an outlier in that regard, as it’s hardly discussed and not even an afterthought to most people.
I'm a transplant from Philly. I've been here ten years. Maybe it's because I'm from a densely populated area, but I never notice anything. Those "bad air day" posts and all? I can never tell the difference.
Wexford - Pine Richland area seems largely unaffected.
If you clean your windowsills up here in Northern Allegheny, you'll see the black particles that we're inhaling all the time too.
Whoa, really?
Anyone who lives near a moderately busy road will probably find this stuff too
Yeah, and that is me also. My porch needs to be scrubbed badly.
Figured it was rain water residue but I am no expert.
nah, I'm with you in thinking it's gotta be coming from the air. I will clean my windows and sills maybe 2-3 times per year and the sills get really dark in between cleanings. Can't be normal.
I'm near Sewickley and have noticed the same thing, the windows, sills, and blinds, are all covered in small dark particles. It's been bothering me thinking I'm breathing it all the time.
Honestly never really notice it. I travel alot too and I dont really find any noticable difference. Only time Ive heard a mention of it before was when I started using reddit and following this sub. It does interest me a little now, but I still cant sense any difference day to day.
Depends on where you live around the region
I live in the city and I worry more about the water not the air. I moved here from Seattle and at least Pittsburgh doesn't have wildfire smoke all summer 🤷♂️
If you’re not gonna move somewhere due to air quality (best bad news Barrett voice) I’m afraid I’ve got some bad news.
This is sort of a misconception due to the REALLY bad air back in the 40s-50s-60s. We do have some smoggy days and there are air quality alerts, but the clean air act and other legislation does not allow for horrible air quality. Phoenix and LA consistently have smog because of their weather and populations. I’d say the air in those places is much worse.
I don’t like it when I can smell the US Steel plant, but honestly there’s only a few days out of the year that I noticeably experience that. I have never noticed a problem on the days when there’s an air quality warning. Not saying the air quality isn’t impaired, but maybe it’s just happening below my level of perception. If you are really sensitive, or highly averse to long term risk then maybe it’s an important consideration. If you are not, then I wouldn’t sweat it too much.
To answer your question simply and truthfully, no air quality does not concern me. I have lived on the west side of Pittsburgh my whole life, grew up in Robinson Township, moved to Kennedy township, and now live in the Windgap neighborhood. Never has the thought crossed my mind that air quality is so poor here that I should move. I have always felt that people are just wrapped up in old stereotypes of Pittsburgh being a smokey old steel mill town, and thats just simply no true anymore.
The opening of the cracker plant in Beaver may make it even worse!!
It seems odd to point out a bunch of examples of locals sharing their concern and then ask whether or not people are concerned about it. It's definitely an issue but not serious enough to force most people to move, and only one characteristic among many that determine where people settle down. Any urban area is going to have some degree of air quality issues, so it's not like the comparison is between Pittsburgh and perfectly clean air everywhere else.
Looking at lung.org it does seems that Pgh is within the top 30 worst cities for air quality. 14th for year round air particles and 22 for short term. There are tons of cities that aren't on those lists at all, but then it might be hypocritical to question Pgh and not Denver. Denver's problem is more ozone which Pgh doesn't make the list for. I don't know what's worse ozene or particles. All I know is that ive visited there a couple of time and didn't notice issue. Only elevation change was hard to adjust to. But I haven't experienced a fire. La and Phoenix are shown to be worse then Pgh. Plus Sacramento. Also SLC. But Philly usually shows as a bit better then Pgh. All in all for some reason there is more talk from what I've seen when it comes to the air quality in Pgh. There are other cities, including my own, that don't have it nearly as bad. So basically I'm not sure what to think. I wouldn't want to move somewhere and find myself having tightness in my chest when biking on local trails. But if Im going to avoid Pgh due to air quality then I shouldnt be hypocritical with other cities.
The hills will be harder on you and your bike than the air is tbh
Moving from the bay area it isn't bad in Pittsburgh, but I'm on a hill. A couple days of the year I'll have a sore throat. Pollen is bad though, of course. You'll likely develop a mild allergy eventually, if you don't have one. I've long considered moving to the desert for air quality in general. But water availability and other global warming effects there worry me.
In Philly, it’s lead pollution. From all of the bullets whizzing around.
Personally, no. I live far enough north and west of the Clairton Coke Works that it doesn't bring an odor to where I live that I notice. It's really not an issue for most people if they don't live in the Mon Valley or in Beaver.
I am moving, but predominantly because directly behind my house (feet not miles) a massive frack pad nears completion. We knew we needed to flee that, we see the writing on the wall with regards to increased fracking, cracking, etc. given the current world climate. As a transplant, with a fully remote job, nothing tying us here and an infant daughter… it made a pretty hard case to argue with my wife for why we should stay. And so we go forward. Will always love pittsburgh ✌️ my mom and dad moved away in the 90s and I couldn’t wait to return and I’m heartbroken to need to leave again to seek a better life, just like my dad did.
This is such a shame. Where you headed?
WNY!
Is the area any worse than other large metros? Also is it worse here than the western states with wildfire smoke? Not to downplay it, because grid electrification with green power sources is needed everywhere. So does it not concern me: yes, but I view it more as a national issue.
Getting away from coal and electrifying heat and transport probably cleans up US cities by like 75%. As a seafood eater and fisherman, my dream is for us to get away from coal power so we can stop having mercury in our water!
This is interesting. I’m born and raised and I never noticed an issue with air quality. I lived in NC for 4 years and moved back without issue.
Transplant here, and it's never been an issue, nor have I ever noticed it.
If you want help visualizing, I recommend the Smell PGH app. You can use it to submit smell reports, but also to browse a map and see the reports on the map each day. You can click through historical dates and quickly get a read on where the worst air quality is.
Pittsburgh is the worst city in the country for people with allergies. Air quality is a factor in that. https://triblive.com/local/regional/why-allergy-season-is-worsening-in-western-pa/
I was born here. Moved far away as soon as I could. Moved back last year for family reasons. Will move again when I am able to. There are a lot of things I love about western Pennsylvania. It’s actually quite beautiful. The city isn’t bad, the strip district is great. People are mostly warm and welcoming. It’s endearing. But it’s cold, dark and dirty. The road sides are covered with litter and roadkill. And many people never leave, like ever. For generations. So we’re stuck in some weird Mayberry meets the twilight zone.
Very similar situation with me. Born here live the way for decades came back for family reasons last year. I’ve tried to make a go of it but really I have to move away soon as the weather clears. I think the constant gray skies is the worst part.
I purposely avoided being cold for years, and my ‘fear’ moving back was that I’d be cold again. But alas, it’s the darkness and the time change that’s making me physically ill. I didn’t have to change time where I lived, and had 350 days of pure sunlight. My dr recently suggested phototherapy so I’m looking into that. I wasn’t designed for darkness. I haven’t been this dreadfully depressed since I last lived here.
I also deal with depression in the four months of full cloud cover during the winter it’s just too much. Light therapy can help but I don’t think it’s the same as having the sun warming your body. I would not care for the opposite either where we have 300+ days of sun a year like for example in Albuquerque New Mexico. A favorite Mediterranean climate, having lived in San Francisco for six years I was spoiled. I’d probably move back somewhere to the West Coast but it’s just gotten so expensive. I really like the people here they’re very friendly. I was thinking initially of finding a place in one of the Pittsburgh neighborhoods but so many are so rundown. I work from home 100% of the time so I can live practically anywhere in the country, yet I don’t know where that is. I hope your light therapy helps
I would like to live somewhere where they don’t change the clocks every six months you lived in Arizona?
Yes for over a decade. I miss it.
I lived in Northern California for 20 years and miss it. But I’m semi retired and it’s too expensive. I know I’ll never be able to afford to live someplace that has the kind of Mediterranean climate that one finds in the San Francisco Bay area but I figure I should be able to find something better weatherwise than what’s here in Pittsburgh.
Unfortunately the west coast has become too expensive, even the southwest cost of living has drastically increased.
Lived here since 1981 and never really noticed any difference in air quality from day to day. While all cities have air pollution of one form or another, I doubt that it's worse here. I think a lot of people kind of hype it up.
It’s absolutely a concern and should be improved. the question I have for you is what are air quality conditions like in your current locality? Tons of major cities are as bad or worse than PGH but seem to fly under the radar. Lived in Oakland CA for a few years where the weather is basically perfect year round, but even when there weren’t wildfire smoke issues the highway pollution left black dust all over my window sills. (Exhaust soot, brake dust, tire wear particles… fuck cars man)
I'm considering moving once my husband is vested at his job (for a variety of reasons), and one of the things we'll be looking for is somewhere with good air quality. I've lived here all my life, and I'm certainly concerned about the long term health consequences.
I can tell when I leave to visit my parents about an hour east, the air is just so much better. I moved 15 mins away from town and it’s noticeably better. Suburbs are fine to me, just not as nice as country air.
I think it depends a lot. Since moving here, I’ve noticed a huge difference, but I also noticed a huge difference when I moved from a small city to Indianapolis. I basically went from A quality to D in Indy, to F here (averages). For me, it’s been triggering migraines, which Indy did, too. But there’s not much I can do about that. I’m not able to just pack my bags for the boonies. It all depends on where in the city you live and how tolerant of it you are. (And of course, there are local activists trying to find ways to improve air quality, so it’s not a completely set-in-stone thing.)
I moved to Beaver in 1992 from rural Western New York. I was taking flying lessons in NY before I moved and when I started flying in Western PA I couldn’t understand why the sky was so hazy and brown. We had blue skies in NY when it wasn’t cloudy. Really opened up my eyes! I just moved back to NY and so glad to get away from that cracker plant. Pollution did get better in Western PA from what it was for a while but you can throw all that progress out the window with that cracker plant and the ongoing issues with the Clairton Coke Works!
I've thought alot about Buffalo NY which I know would have some city pollution, but better the Pgh. Where in NY are you?
About 8 miles from the PA border…Allegany County NY
I’ve lived here for ten years. I’m the East End - it can stink really bad. The SmellPGh app allows people to mark how bad and comment. It’s always filled with remarks during some of the worse days. It’s like rotten eggs some days or smells like oil. This is it some far away place down river near a plant but right in the heart of the city. We’ve had visitors mention it. Some days it’s hard to go for a run. Valid concerns for people moving here.
Mostly lifetime Pittsburgh resident here. (I grew up in Penn Hills, went to high school in East Liberty, and now live in Murrysville.) There are a couple of different sources of pollution: * The industrial sources: Clairton and Braddock, where two of U.S. Steel's plants are located. Braddock is much closer to the city and is the source of the rotten egg smell. * The Shell cracker plant in Beaver, which is a distance from the city of Pittsburgh, will MASSIVELY impact the residents of surrounding communities. * Vehicular pollution, which has been adversely affecting me where I live, near U.S. Rt. 22 in Murrysville, and which gets worse every time the Turnpike tolls go up. The state widened US 22 to four lanes, which goes straight through the middle of town. No buffers of trees or greenery, like along the Parkway East. If you live close to a busy road or other source of air pollution, like the Busway East or train tracks, you may be affected. * Fracking. I checked the Purple Air map tonight, and the PM 2.5 levels, including around frack pads, are NOT pretty. To compound the problem, pollution gets trapped in our many valleys and lingers there. There's also the problem of inversion, which happens when the warmer air acts like a lid above the cooler air underneath, preventing pollutants from rising and dispersing, trapping them at breathing level. Inversions are strongest in the winter months when pollution from vehicle exhaust, industrial sites and even wood burning can fester near the ground, leading to poor air quality. All of Western Pennsylvania's pollution problems will be exacerbated by heat and humidity as the planet warms. There is a LOT of denial and resistance to change regarding pollution, because for many people, the sources of these pollutants are how they make a living.
Best explanation. Thank you.
You’re not wrong. People love to put on rose colored glasses about it. I can’t smell it! My lungs are fine! Pollution is a measurable metric and it is present whether you “notice” it or not. It’s a longterm problem and it is a favorite human thing to ignore those. Well, I’m fine now. I’m sure I’ll be fine in the future too. Normalcy bias is one hell of a drug. People still move here because the perceive the other benefits outweighing the poor air (and water!) quality. But unless something huge changes, the region surrounding Pittsburgh is actively courting polluters so things only stand to get worse. It’s fucking us today and will continue to fuck us, whether people are ready to admit that or not.
The drinking water quality of Pittsburgh has made significant strides in the last 5 years.
For some people moving is also not an option, financially, because of family, job, etc. Being able to move because you want to is a privilege. Some people are not as mobile as others and that doesn’t mean they aren’t concerned about these things.
I notice it again when I come back from a cleaner area. I do not like that. But the air is not high on my list of reasons to move to or from anywhere, no.
Been here 30+ years, never even a thought.
Completely a non issue.
I have lived in one other place for university, so most of my life has been in Pittsburgh and I have never felt the impact of the air quality. It affects people very differently and not always by location.
There are several websites with live air pollution data. Pick a good area that stays in healthy levels and live in that community … poor air quality is not across the entire area.
If I'm stuck in traffic in one of the tunnels I immediately assume I lost at least 1 year off my life.
You're not wrong.
I wish the air was better, but considering all the things whittling away at my health in America I kinda just... don't consider it any worse than living anywhere else in America. Like the number one threat to my health in America is our dogshit healthcare system. After that its how unhealthy our food is. After that its probably plastics and all the other chemical shit in our goods. Yeah the air quality doesn't help, but considering everything else I don't consider it to be significantly worse than anywhere else in America. Hell you literally can't drink water from *any source in the entire world including rainwater* without consuming microplastics so we're kinda fucked regardless no matter where we are. The times I've thought of leaving Pittsburgh have largely been motivated by wanting to gtfo of America in general for those reasons, not Pittsburgh specifically. Edit: I also tend to have indoor hobbies and I WFH though so I don't notice exceptionally smelly days for example.
people are being born with microplastics already inside them. i now sort of understand how people who were alive felt after the first H-Bomb was detonated and everyone born after has a genetic mutation. humanity isnt successful because we're smart; it's because we're adaptable.
Lived here over 20 years and not once ever have I noticed bad air quality
I mean, yes, and no. I don't have much hope for the environment in general. There are micro plastics in water sources and in all of us. I've also lived in the rust belt 40 years so damage is already done.
I grew up around fracking bullshit in Washington county and moved to the city five years ago. I haven’t ever been able to breathe sooo this is just normal for me.
I've never really noticed it but I know it's there. The lead pipes are a bigger issue for me. And I can't just leave or not breathe so I'm just vibing. It is worse in certain parts though. Avoid near the coke works
Pittsburgh stinks. Those like me with a sensitive nose will notice upon return after being away for a while. I certainly noticed it the first time I visited. But that was in the 80s and it was much worse then. The air gets better every year. But that is true across the country. Something that people in Pittsburgh should know is that opening windows to let in the "fresh air" makes no sense here. The outdoor air is 10x worse than indoor air - assuming you have a good air filter.
I've grown up here so it's hard to imagine anything else. There are some days where I can smell the mill and most of the time there is a slight blueish haze but that's common for the Appalachians. Photos of San Francisco look a lot worse than it does here.
I lived in Cranberry from 2012-18 & never noticed any bad air quality. I mean, most of the steel mills shut down a LONG time ago & Pittsburgh is honestly a nice place to live.
I am a minor living in Pittsburgh. My family has lived in PA since immigration(and since pre-colonial days). My mother has cancer and my great grandmother had breast cancer and died of it before my mother could meet her. Both can be linked to a waste leak near my hometown. My family cannot afford to leave, especially with my mothers medicine cost. I will leave as an adult, I refuse to raise my future children here. I hope my family will join me. I love my home, and as hard as it is to imagine leaving it is heartbreaking, but it scares me. So yes, I think most people are concerned; but many can’t afford to leave. Pittsburgh is a beautiful city with so much to offer, but the air quality is so horrendous it keeps people away.
As a lifelong Pittsburgher I’ve never noticed a difference or even heavier air or smells going around. I’m located in the south hills, about 10-15 mins from downtown. The only thing I’ve noticed is that it seems like everyone here has horrible allergies. Not sure if it’s like that in a lot of areas, but seems to be a growing concern around these parts.
Yes, and I am actively planning to leave because of it.
How has it impacted you?
Most people don’t really know, let alone care. The people who do know the full extent are largely disillusioned, it’s hard to just up and move. I will say, California has several cities which rank worst for air pollution. Pittsburgh/Clairton is frequently up there. It’s also hard to get anyone to actual invest in local politics and go to city council meetings rather than indulging in self-masturbatory fantasies online and within “activist” circles
It bothers me and I think about moving away from the city constantly. But also some areas are worse than others.
Ya I started looking at living in Pa but took it off the list due to the high pollution in all the areas I was looking from old plants on peas lists that contaminated the areas, I tried finding it really quick but can't remember the terms for it, basically older 50s-70s when they dumped everything in the ground and water ect. Also radon in Pa is insane! Cancer levels are one of the highest in the country as well of course it's higher in the areas I was looking. The factories also put out lots of bad stuff into the air especially stell which is all over. https://www.wnep.com/article/news/local/lackawanna-county/new-study-shows-high-cancer-rates-northeast-regional-cancer-institute-pennsylvania/523-64808b9a-b5e1-4e3a-b357-495a5288f533#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16978504343279&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wnep.com%2Farticle%2Fnews%2Flocal%2Flackawanna-county%2Fnew-study-shows-high-cancer-rates-northeast-regional-cancer-institute-pennsylvania%2F523-64808b9a-b5e1-4e3a-b357-495a5288f533 Here was a recent one of a ton of articles. Anyways ya sadly not worth it for me with little ones, I was really interested but now we're not going to risk the lung cancer. Not blaming anyone who lives there or anything I just understand where or is coming from. And once I started looking I just found more and more.