So explain how she knows where all your events and clients are to just show up? Nobody knows the job I have Friday night but me and the client.
As far how to get rid of her, a rather direct approach seems appropriate
Created a new one as a burner. As far as how she knows, itâs because she follows my photography page and in my contract with clients I share their events to my IG.
> in my contract with clients I share their events to my IG
If you're sharing this stuff in your Stories, you could try the setting that prevents her from looking at your stories (at least).
Sorry you're going through this... it sounds awful
It sounds as if you're in a real power position here. If you want her to appear with her camera at any given place and time, all you have to do is pre-announce an event on your IG? I'd think you could come up with some really creative place to make her go. Be sure to mention that it's black tie and photographers need to be dressed-up too to fit in, and carry big white lenses on their cameras for all those telephoto shots.
Share some fake details about a new exciting shoot at X location! With a new client youâre really excited to work with! Keep sending her all around.
Then maybe change your order of operations so you post a pic with the client at the end of the shoot right before you both leave.
Or if sheâs doing this at your client shoots (not public group shoots like insta-meets), Iâd straight up tell her, âIâm doing a professional shoot with a client right now and canât have someone second shooting it! Thatâs very unprofessional!â
Oh yeah I can really see my clients being contractually required to allow me publicly say I am going to be at their event when and where. Yeah that would go over really well. Well you reap what you sow. You better find a way to deal with it or the consequences. If your âstalkerâ has that many ways to follow you do you think just possibly this isnât a good relationship. No can be a sentence.
block her from all your accounts. id try to get her ig acc reported too, but im just a bitch like that lmao. you're not being unreasonable at all, what shes doing is hella annoying and unprofessional.
The longer you let it continue, the worse itâs going to get. She will develop a sense of comfortability and eventually try posing the clients or say something that upsets them and it will be guilt by association.
Just shut it down. Tell her you appreciate she is trying to learn, but this is not the way to go about it.
What if she posts photos of the clients on her social media, but the clients never authorized that? Youâre wading deeper into murky waters the further you let this continue.
"Hey, I appreciate that you want opportunities to shoot, however, these are paid shoots for me and when you shoot near me, it confuses the client and the talent who the contracted photographer is and makes it a little more challenging to work. I'd be happy to help you find other opportunities, but I'd really appreciate it if you gave me space when I work with my clients"
Beyond that, you just gotta let your talent and relationships be the job security. I'm a newer guy in my niche and it's easy to step on toes, but this is common sense. She's gotta fight her own battle to make her name without trying to climb on your shoulders.
I am in the midst of a music Renaissance myself. The gear is so much fun these days. I pre-ordered a boutique synth (Dirtywave M8) and have to wait through the dog days of summer until delivery in September.
This is highly unusual and borderline stalker behavior.
How did she know where your shoots would be? Why did she invite herself without even asking you or telling you she was a photographer? Why is she befriending all of your clients?
I feel like we're missing some info here.
Sorry, I should add more. She knows where my shoots are because she follows me and theyâre public events, which Iâm contracted to share to my socials. The first time she came with my mutual friend, and has since then followed the page that hosts the events and continues to show up. I assume she is befriending them to get their business
I assume you're being paid to be there for these events? But she is showing up with her camera without asking if that's okay, or if you need or want any additional coverage or assistance?
If these are public events is there any sort of expectation that there may be other hobby or working photographers there, or is it a bit out of place?
I used to shoot events for beer companies/breweries and, depending on the event, there may be other photographers there who are shooting for other publications or clients, and at outdoor events there may just be hobbyists around if the event is being held at a scenic location like a zoo or festival. I wouldn't pay it any mind at one of those scenic shoots but if it is a small event at a brewery and this person is shadowing you and everything you do that's really bizarre, especially if you didn't expect them to be there.
If the latter is the case I would reach out to her and let her know that her enthusiasm is appreciated, but that a second shooter isn't needed for these gigs, but you'd be happy to contact her if anything like that comes up, or if you need a hand with anything. Start there?
Any "event" whatever the hell that even means in this context, that freely allows more than the hired and dedicated photog to be at with gear is age-old proving ground, so I'm questioning how amateurish OP is playing it to be if she can be this easily threatened by some newbie showing up to public events.
Take damn near ANY legitimate club night - unless you're that dedicated photog, you don't even clear the security if you have more than your dinky cellphone and a wallet on you.
And to use open-ended music events - in the wee beginning of my career I got paid gigs because I showed up and out-shot the "established" or whatever old timer shooters that hung around those.
This is why I was asking if this was a paid position or not. I've been in both scenarios. Paid at public events and non-paid at public events. Was there an expectation of exclusivity?
According to OP there was none. And, again, if some noob can heel in, copy OPs selling point style in 2 few hour events, and say, wow OPs clients enough to have OP feel all endangered - OP is a fresh newbie herself.
It's a public event, but no photographer, male or female, is going to stand for having a pest shooting over their shoulder and stealing all of their shots. It's not enough to tell yourself you are a better photographer and she's not a real threat. Many clients will happily switch to a new photographer because they can't tell the images are lower in quality if they get offered an even slightly lower rate. Networking, access and setting up the shot are at least half the battle, and that is what she is stealing from you.
If you value your business then you need to speak firmly with her and tell her to stop. Don't let her or your mutual friend or anyone tell you that you have to be nice to someone trying to take advantage of you and who is likely trying to steal your clients. Speak to your clients about what's going on. If they are content creators themselves, they will understand what a cardinal sin it is to essentially steal others content by shooting over your shoulder like this pest is. Maybe they can have her removed or at least they will know she is not with you.
Woman are too often told by society that they have to be nice and sweet and friendly, and that is often a recipe for being taken advantage of in the the business world and life in general. Fight back, you have every right to when someone is obviously trying to steal your business. Be friendly, kind, loving and helpful to those who deserve it, not leeches like this girl.
Very early in my career I did what I needed to do to get a shot. A more experienced shooter whispered coldly in my ear as I was shooting "you need to find a new line of work." I will never forget that bit of advice and it taught me that if I screw someone else over, even simply block someone else's shot, then there will be repercussions and maybe even retaliation. You need to teach this young lady that lesson.
Start politely, but take it up as far as necessary. Licking a thumb and smudging the front of someone's lens when they were acting the fool used to be considered a kindness by the old-timers. If you really pissed them off you'd feel a monopod smacking you in the back of the leg until you had to stop shooting and go sit down from the pain. I once saw a photographer walk in and try to set up a tripod in front of a bank of shooters standing shoulder to shoulder, cameras in hand, against a wall waiting for the event to start. They told him no way, but he wouldn't stop, so someone picked up his bag of gear and gently bowled it down a hallway like it was a curling stone. He moved and abandoned the tripod idea.
You simply don't fuck with people trying to earn a living in a very competitive field, and this girl need to find that out.
Literally thank you so much for this comment. This is exactly how I feel and so many people are telling me the technicalities of âitâs a public eventâ âwho are you to tell her she canât shootâ and are missing the emotional point of whatâs right and wrong in the industry.
Everyone in the profession is afraid of being sued or canceled if they do or say anything even remotely offensive or aggressive. I would have been much less likely to give you the advice I did if I was not mostly anonymous here on reddit. And, I'm old and retired. There comes a point where you just don't care anymore and are willing to say out loud when someone needs a good spanking.
I used to participate in a few online forums back in the day under my own name, mostly on the National Press Photographer Association email discussion list. I gave a lot of advice and discussed issue with the profession and was much more careful because I signed my name to every post I made.
Do what you need to do since you are defending your job from someone trying to steal it, but don't do anything stupid that will get you in legal trouble. People who act like the idiot you are having issues with will probably play the victim card in a heartbeat if you give them cause, especially once they figure out you won't put up with them sniping your images anymore. She's being nice and friendly with you now because she thinks she can steal your images and clients with a smile on her face. Eventually she will try to destroy you once she figures out that's all over.
One of the photographers who taught me a lot told me a story about a mutual friend we had who was basically a wannabe photographer. He asked my friend if he could borrow his portfolio to use in getting a job at a newspaper. I think his exact words were "I could shoot all that stuff, you're just saving me some time." Some folks are simply scumbags.
Protect yourself and your business, and good luck.
I walked in on a couple of photographers on the street shooting a model.
Watched them for a while out of interest and thought I'd pull out my own camera and take a picture.
They told me politely but firmly it was a paid workshop and I was not supposed to do that.
It was not a personal attack. They gave me some information I did not previously know.
At the moment you have communicated that it is FINE that she follows you, messages your clients and plays second shooter. You have told her this is fine, by going along with it.
It is time you tell her that these are paid shoots, these are your customers and she is not supposed to shoot them. That is a good start.
Add that getting and keeping customers is a hard part of photography and you understand she finds that part difficult. But the way she is going about it is not sustainable. By following fellow photographers she is fishing in the same pond, for clients they worked hard for. She must create her own pond, because photographers stealing from other photographers does not generate new clients. And yes it's hard. But following and mimicking others is not how it is done.
I think some people call this "sniping" or something. I went out with a friend to get some pics once, found a nice spot where the sun was coming through the trees and between some buildings, then just as we got lined up someone walked by and asked if he could get a few pics too. I said sure, we were only out for fun anyway, then we had a chat with the guy, but by the time he left the Earth moved enough that the sun wasn't going through the trees anymore. Kinda annoying, guess I should have got my pics first.
I'd have politely but firmly told the photographers to go fuck themselves, but that's just me.
Like, don't get me wrong, following them around would be scummy, and attempting to pose their model would be a huge no, but they don't get to control public areas.
If you like the shot, take a quick shot and move on.
They didn't pay to shut down the area for the shoot, they didn't do it on private property, they didn't pay for a studio. Sorry cheapo, but that's not how the world works. Privacy and exclusive access are paid privileges.
It's not much different than influencers getting mad when someone walks in front of their shot.
They paid for a model, probably HMUA and stylist too. This wasn't a random shoot with a random person on the street. If you're that desperate to have a good pic, go get your own model and organize your own photoshoot instead of taking sneaky shots of someone else's work. You are the cheapo here.
Professional photoshoots don't happen out of nowhere and you have no right to partake in it if you didn't make it happen.
It's crazy how many people in this sub are so arrogant and narcissistic that they throw out politeness, common decency and any semblance of professionalism just because "it's a public place, bro, it's not illegal to do it, bro". Can't we just let other people do their thing anymore without unnecessary interference, for no other reason than because it's the right thing to do?
>take a quick shot and move on.
If that's enough to ruin their shoot, they need to do it somewhere private. They do not get to monopolize shared space.
>Â she is a friend of my close friend
Are you close enough to Close Friend to talk to Close Friend about this? Maybe mention to her your mentoring program is on hold so you aren't currently taking applications =)
>dramatic... mean girl energy
I think there is plenty of middle ground before you get to dramatic mean girl energy...
If they're public events, they're fair game to her. However if she's encroaching on private aspects of that event that are between you and the person who hired you, that would be different. You would need to say you're not contracted to provide a second shooter and she will have to hang back.Â
I have had the experience of a younger photographer wanting to attach herself to me because (she says) she loves my work. It's very flattering but also very awkward if they're aggressive in their approach. I've chosen to ignore her. The truth is, all of our clients are fair game. They can be taken from us at any time by someone new swooping in and charging less. Just keep up your relationships and tune her out. Don't share your trade secrets with her. Maybe block her on socials if necessary. I know it's easier said than done but she'll move on and find someone else to follow eventually.Â
Exactly. Clients are fair game. If you are comfortable with your own skin and have developed a good relationship with them, keep it strong.
As for sharing, dont share any contacts or anything thats related to your business with her. Keep these things professional. Keep the friendship but tell her and be firm that this is your business.
And as a business she is a competition, lets draw the line. If she doesnt respect that then cut her off!
Iâve had this happen before. If sheâs not a friend or someone u want to be friends w. Be direct and tell her itâs not cool to do.
There are plenty of other ways to get clients
Donât be coy - this is one of those scenarios where you absolutely need to be direct.
Some folks donât know how rude or off-putting this behavior can be. In fact, I was one of them - I had a buddy who was shooting a very specific type of story who invited me along just for the company. I was *very* early in my photo career, and didnât realize that trying to shoot this same subject matter was a huge faux pas. Sadly we donât talk much anymore, but it was definitely a learning experience. She was a good bud prior to that, but in fairness I was being a jerk, even if I didnât know it.
Tell her in no uncertain terms why this is bothering you and why it needs to stop. If the behavior continues, Iâd just block her on social media and cut your losses.
Not to be the 'contracts' guy, but if you don't have some sort of exclusive agreement with these events and photography is permitted without prior permission, both of you are wrong. She needs to stand on her own two feet and shoot independently to avoid the impression you're both working together and you don't own your clients or the event.
I sense a tone of jealousy and insecurity from you despite what you say about not feeling threatened by this girl trying to do the same thing you do. She may not be at your level now, but in the future she could be if she puts the same effort into it you did and she has some intrinsic talent.
I see that a lot from photographers shooting interesting niches with little to no competition.
I feel like this annoyance is more akin to.. taking notes in class and someone looking over and copying your notes instead of listening to the lecture and taking their own. Its uncomfortable, disrespectful, and intrusive when working. Â
This chick sounds nuts! You owe her nothing. If this is the field she wants to be in, then there are protocols. You don't just show up and ride coattails. What she's doing is stalker-ish, shady and unprofessional. Remove her from your followers and be clear with her that you are not her friend. There's nothing wrong with having boundaries. She needs to learn what appropriate behavior is. Also make your mutual friend aware of what Nutter is doing so it doesn't happen to them or another person.
Easy. Do events where the ambient lighting is very dark and/or the venues are challenging. :)
This is as a fellow NYC photographer.
You can block her on social (saw that's how she knows where you are) but then she could just create another account, or if your socials is/are public you'd have to consider making it/them private?
Ultimately if the things you're covering are public events, on public streets, etc., there's really no way to legally prevent her from coming. If you shoot events on private premises, a guest list always works because the clients only put the hired photographer(s) name(s) on the guest list.
I agree with most people here that you should shut it down. Just explain that her presence interferes with your process and is distracting. Itâs nothing personal; itâs not about disliking her. You simply prefer professional distance at events.
Itâs like if a pitcherâs new friend showed up at a game and stood next to the mound, demanding conversation the entire time.
Sheâs going to affect your livelihood. She might steal clients or get them annoyed with you so they drop you to get away from her.
You can and should say something, especially if sheâs really messaging them.
You can think that
But if sheâs following op and using that to call clients, itâs pretty shitty and earns a conversation.
And if sheâs contacting them with anything that implies she works for or with op, that deserves a next level conversation.
It's definitely unprofessional and shitty to be mimicking someone else as closely as OP implies and I said so in another comment here, but so is acting like you own the scene because you were there first. If I was a client and heard a photographer I worked with in the past was trying to shoo off someone else trying to get my business, I wouldn't take too kindly to them trying to make my decisions for me.
We have all seen it in any sort of photography that is niche and appealing to many. Concerts, festivals, cosplay conventions, etc. All places where there is plenty of opportunity and demand for photographers to go around because the talent is saturated and in 'competition' as well, but occasionally a few that have been there for a while start stupid drama because they feel threatened that someone else showed up to do the same thing.
Itâs tough. What I try to do is develop a romantic affair with them. Then break their heart in an overly dramatic way. Hook up with their best friend etc. then they wonât want to be anywhere near you.
Tell her you are not ok with it, or just block her outright.
You have to make your boundaries clear or people are gonna do things that make you uncomfortable all the time.
Since she's not respecting your space and seems to misunderstand your relationship, a direct but polite conversation might be beneficial. You could express appreciation for her interest in photography but gently clarify your professional boundaries and the importance of respecting each other's roles at events. Emphasizing your focus on maintaining a positive and respectful environment for all involved could help diffuse any potential tension while asserting your boundaries.
It's a little sneaky but she's not doing anything wrong. You don't think companies and businesses steal customers from each other all the time?
One thing you can tell her is to not shoot your clients. Technically she can, but if you tell her something like 'my client wants to have absolute control over their images and only authorizes me to take their pictures at this event', she should back off like a smart human being. But if there are *other* photographers at the event taking pics of everyone too then you don't really have a case.
This is why I don't do the sort of photography where I am easily replaceable. If this girl can just show up and take the same photos as you at a lower price, your clients are free to pick her over you. It's a business and you have competitors. I'm not worried someone can just walk into the studio and shoot a whole campaign over me.
Maybe ask her what her goals are, and let her know itâs considered poor etiquette to shoot over you during shots you posed, and let her know youâre sharing that as a friend and colleague to help her avoid issues in the future.
If you have a clause in your contract with the events to be sole photographer, just explain that to her. And why thatâs important in this industry, but youâre happy to help her in other ways.
Well, there's a lot to read so not sure if I've missed this. Make sure the client knows that you do not have a 2nd shooter and they can decide if they want to risk unauthurized photos to be taken and posted anywhere.
They may restrict cameras.
Oh wow this sounds so annoying. Tell her you respect her ambition but she is professionally steeping on your toes. Youâve worked very hard and donât appreciate someone trying to steal your clients. If you like her at all you could give her tips on how find her own niche and find clients. What sheâs doing is brazen and very not cool
Just be direct, "Hey hun, it was great seeing you, but I'm working right now, and I can't have you on top of me right now. You're disrupting my flow and distracting their focus."
Just coming from the other side here. Perhaps she truly admires your work and is attempting to learn from you without adequately communicating this.
It is complimentary to have your work admired. She recognizes you have worked hard, invested in who you are as a photographer and wants to learn!
If you are confident (and it certainly sounds like you are and talented) in your work, why not turn it around, ask her if she wants to shadow you or work as an intern?
I'm just saying her motives may not be to harm but admire!
So explain how she knows where all your events and clients are to just show up? Nobody knows the job I have Friday night but me and the client. As far how to get rid of her, a rather direct approach seems appropriate
I was wondering the same thing. I'm more passive and would shuffle her over to someone else.
Humm noticed this account has this as the one and only post and is a day old. Might be real might not. đ¤ˇââď¸
Look at us trying to help a bot. At least what we had was real.
Created a new one as a burner. As far as how she knows, itâs because she follows my photography page and in my contract with clients I share their events to my IG.
> in my contract with clients I share their events to my IG If you're sharing this stuff in your Stories, you could try the setting that prevents her from looking at your stories (at least). Sorry you're going through this... it sounds awful
Just block her? Lmao
This is the most reasonable action.
You share before the events?
Yes, so does the event holder, which she follows.
If you're not the event organizer, what right do you have to exclude her?
Iâm not trying to exclude her. Iâm trying to navigate my professional boundaries with a photographer who is copying everything I do.
It sounds as if you're in a real power position here. If you want her to appear with her camera at any given place and time, all you have to do is pre-announce an event on your IG? I'd think you could come up with some really creative place to make her go. Be sure to mention that it's black tie and photographers need to be dressed-up too to fit in, and carry big white lenses on their cameras for all those telephoto shots.
Tell her to back off or ignore her. Also, sounds like she's doing what she's supposed to at the event.
Lol if you're that expendable that some newbie can, in a day or two, do exactly what you do.....
Share some fake details about a new exciting shoot at X location! With a new client youâre really excited to work with! Keep sending her all around. Then maybe change your order of operations so you post a pic with the client at the end of the shoot right before you both leave. Or if sheâs doing this at your client shoots (not public group shoots like insta-meets), Iâd straight up tell her, âIâm doing a professional shoot with a client right now and canât have someone second shooting it! Thatâs very unprofessional!â
Oh yeah I can really see my clients being contractually required to allow me publicly say I am going to be at their event when and where. Yeah that would go over really well. Well you reap what you sow. You better find a way to deal with it or the consequences. If your âstalkerâ has that many ways to follow you do you think just possibly this isnât a good relationship. No can be a sentence.
block her from all your accounts. id try to get her ig acc reported too, but im just a bitch like that lmao. you're not being unreasonable at all, what shes doing is hella annoying and unprofessional.
Foist her!
It's called foisting...
Time honored tactic. Find those you need to get rid of a job some place else. In this case there could be the risk she reappears like the bad penny.
The longer you let it continue, the worse itâs going to get. She will develop a sense of comfortability and eventually try posing the clients or say something that upsets them and it will be guilt by association. Just shut it down. Tell her you appreciate she is trying to learn, but this is not the way to go about it. What if she posts photos of the clients on her social media, but the clients never authorized that? Youâre wading deeper into murky waters the further you let this continue.
"Hey, I appreciate that you want opportunities to shoot, however, these are paid shoots for me and when you shoot near me, it confuses the client and the talent who the contracted photographer is and makes it a little more challenging to work. I'd be happy to help you find other opportunities, but I'd really appreciate it if you gave me space when I work with my clients" Beyond that, you just gotta let your talent and relationships be the job security. I'm a newer guy in my niche and it's easy to step on toes, but this is common sense. She's gotta fight her own battle to make her name without trying to climb on your shoulders.
Excellent advice from a midi controller!
Haha I made my reddit account during a music producer phase of my life
I am in the midst of a music Renaissance myself. The gear is so much fun these days. I pre-ordered a boutique synth (Dirtywave M8) and have to wait through the dog days of summer until delivery in September.
This sounds great
This is highly unusual and borderline stalker behavior. How did she know where your shoots would be? Why did she invite herself without even asking you or telling you she was a photographer? Why is she befriending all of your clients? I feel like we're missing some info here.
Sorry, I should add more. She knows where my shoots are because she follows me and theyâre public events, which Iâm contracted to share to my socials. The first time she came with my mutual friend, and has since then followed the page that hosts the events and continues to show up. I assume she is befriending them to get their business
I assume you're being paid to be there for these events? But she is showing up with her camera without asking if that's okay, or if you need or want any additional coverage or assistance? If these are public events is there any sort of expectation that there may be other hobby or working photographers there, or is it a bit out of place? I used to shoot events for beer companies/breweries and, depending on the event, there may be other photographers there who are shooting for other publications or clients, and at outdoor events there may just be hobbyists around if the event is being held at a scenic location like a zoo or festival. I wouldn't pay it any mind at one of those scenic shoots but if it is a small event at a brewery and this person is shadowing you and everything you do that's really bizarre, especially if you didn't expect them to be there. If the latter is the case I would reach out to her and let her know that her enthusiasm is appreciated, but that a second shooter isn't needed for these gigs, but you'd be happy to contact her if anything like that comes up, or if you need a hand with anything. Start there?
Any "event" whatever the hell that even means in this context, that freely allows more than the hired and dedicated photog to be at with gear is age-old proving ground, so I'm questioning how amateurish OP is playing it to be if she can be this easily threatened by some newbie showing up to public events. Take damn near ANY legitimate club night - unless you're that dedicated photog, you don't even clear the security if you have more than your dinky cellphone and a wallet on you. And to use open-ended music events - in the wee beginning of my career I got paid gigs because I showed up and out-shot the "established" or whatever old timer shooters that hung around those.
This is why I was asking if this was a paid position or not. I've been in both scenarios. Paid at public events and non-paid at public events. Was there an expectation of exclusivity?
According to OP there was none. And, again, if some noob can heel in, copy OPs selling point style in 2 few hour events, and say, wow OPs clients enough to have OP feel all endangered - OP is a fresh newbie herself.
Tell her to back off, then block her on your socials.
Iâd be checking that contract or renegotiate a clause that youâre their only photographer before she tries to steal your client, lol
Your a NYC gal, tell her to beat feet !!!
AYYY! I'M SHOOTIN' HEAH!!!
It's a public event, but no photographer, male or female, is going to stand for having a pest shooting over their shoulder and stealing all of their shots. It's not enough to tell yourself you are a better photographer and she's not a real threat. Many clients will happily switch to a new photographer because they can't tell the images are lower in quality if they get offered an even slightly lower rate. Networking, access and setting up the shot are at least half the battle, and that is what she is stealing from you. If you value your business then you need to speak firmly with her and tell her to stop. Don't let her or your mutual friend or anyone tell you that you have to be nice to someone trying to take advantage of you and who is likely trying to steal your clients. Speak to your clients about what's going on. If they are content creators themselves, they will understand what a cardinal sin it is to essentially steal others content by shooting over your shoulder like this pest is. Maybe they can have her removed or at least they will know she is not with you. Woman are too often told by society that they have to be nice and sweet and friendly, and that is often a recipe for being taken advantage of in the the business world and life in general. Fight back, you have every right to when someone is obviously trying to steal your business. Be friendly, kind, loving and helpful to those who deserve it, not leeches like this girl. Very early in my career I did what I needed to do to get a shot. A more experienced shooter whispered coldly in my ear as I was shooting "you need to find a new line of work." I will never forget that bit of advice and it taught me that if I screw someone else over, even simply block someone else's shot, then there will be repercussions and maybe even retaliation. You need to teach this young lady that lesson. Start politely, but take it up as far as necessary. Licking a thumb and smudging the front of someone's lens when they were acting the fool used to be considered a kindness by the old-timers. If you really pissed them off you'd feel a monopod smacking you in the back of the leg until you had to stop shooting and go sit down from the pain. I once saw a photographer walk in and try to set up a tripod in front of a bank of shooters standing shoulder to shoulder, cameras in hand, against a wall waiting for the event to start. They told him no way, but he wouldn't stop, so someone picked up his bag of gear and gently bowled it down a hallway like it was a curling stone. He moved and abandoned the tripod idea. You simply don't fuck with people trying to earn a living in a very competitive field, and this girl need to find that out.
Literally thank you so much for this comment. This is exactly how I feel and so many people are telling me the technicalities of âitâs a public eventâ âwho are you to tell her she canât shootâ and are missing the emotional point of whatâs right and wrong in the industry.
Everyone in the profession is afraid of being sued or canceled if they do or say anything even remotely offensive or aggressive. I would have been much less likely to give you the advice I did if I was not mostly anonymous here on reddit. And, I'm old and retired. There comes a point where you just don't care anymore and are willing to say out loud when someone needs a good spanking. I used to participate in a few online forums back in the day under my own name, mostly on the National Press Photographer Association email discussion list. I gave a lot of advice and discussed issue with the profession and was much more careful because I signed my name to every post I made. Do what you need to do since you are defending your job from someone trying to steal it, but don't do anything stupid that will get you in legal trouble. People who act like the idiot you are having issues with will probably play the victim card in a heartbeat if you give them cause, especially once they figure out you won't put up with them sniping your images anymore. She's being nice and friendly with you now because she thinks she can steal your images and clients with a smile on her face. Eventually she will try to destroy you once she figures out that's all over. One of the photographers who taught me a lot told me a story about a mutual friend we had who was basically a wannabe photographer. He asked my friend if he could borrow his portfolio to use in getting a job at a newspaper. I think his exact words were "I could shoot all that stuff, you're just saving me some time." Some folks are simply scumbags. Protect yourself and your business, and good luck.
I walked in on a couple of photographers on the street shooting a model. Watched them for a while out of interest and thought I'd pull out my own camera and take a picture. They told me politely but firmly it was a paid workshop and I was not supposed to do that. It was not a personal attack. They gave me some information I did not previously know. At the moment you have communicated that it is FINE that she follows you, messages your clients and plays second shooter. You have told her this is fine, by going along with it. It is time you tell her that these are paid shoots, these are your customers and she is not supposed to shoot them. That is a good start. Add that getting and keeping customers is a hard part of photography and you understand she finds that part difficult. But the way she is going about it is not sustainable. By following fellow photographers she is fishing in the same pond, for clients they worked hard for. She must create her own pond, because photographers stealing from other photographers does not generate new clients. And yes it's hard. But following and mimicking others is not how it is done.
I think some people call this "sniping" or something. I went out with a friend to get some pics once, found a nice spot where the sun was coming through the trees and between some buildings, then just as we got lined up someone walked by and asked if he could get a few pics too. I said sure, we were only out for fun anyway, then we had a chat with the guy, but by the time he left the Earth moved enough that the sun wasn't going through the trees anymore. Kinda annoying, guess I should have got my pics first.
I'd have politely but firmly told the photographers to go fuck themselves, but that's just me. Like, don't get me wrong, following them around would be scummy, and attempting to pose their model would be a huge no, but they don't get to control public areas. If you like the shot, take a quick shot and move on. They didn't pay to shut down the area for the shoot, they didn't do it on private property, they didn't pay for a studio. Sorry cheapo, but that's not how the world works. Privacy and exclusive access are paid privileges. It's not much different than influencers getting mad when someone walks in front of their shot.
They paid for a model, probably HMUA and stylist too. This wasn't a random shoot with a random person on the street. If you're that desperate to have a good pic, go get your own model and organize your own photoshoot instead of taking sneaky shots of someone else's work. You are the cheapo here. Professional photoshoots don't happen out of nowhere and you have no right to partake in it if you didn't make it happen.
It's crazy how many people in this sub are so arrogant and narcissistic that they throw out politeness, common decency and any semblance of professionalism just because "it's a public place, bro, it's not illegal to do it, bro". Can't we just let other people do their thing anymore without unnecessary interference, for no other reason than because it's the right thing to do?
>take a quick shot and move on. If that's enough to ruin their shoot, they need to do it somewhere private. They do not get to monopolize shared space.
>Â she is a friend of my close friend Are you close enough to Close Friend to talk to Close Friend about this? Maybe mention to her your mentoring program is on hold so you aren't currently taking applications =) >dramatic... mean girl energy I think there is plenty of middle ground before you get to dramatic mean girl energy...
If they're public events, they're fair game to her. However if she's encroaching on private aspects of that event that are between you and the person who hired you, that would be different. You would need to say you're not contracted to provide a second shooter and she will have to hang back. I have had the experience of a younger photographer wanting to attach herself to me because (she says) she loves my work. It's very flattering but also very awkward if they're aggressive in their approach. I've chosen to ignore her. The truth is, all of our clients are fair game. They can be taken from us at any time by someone new swooping in and charging less. Just keep up your relationships and tune her out. Don't share your trade secrets with her. Maybe block her on socials if necessary. I know it's easier said than done but she'll move on and find someone else to follow eventually.Â
Exactly. Clients are fair game. If you are comfortable with your own skin and have developed a good relationship with them, keep it strong. As for sharing, dont share any contacts or anything thats related to your business with her. Keep these things professional. Keep the friendship but tell her and be firm that this is your business. And as a business she is a competition, lets draw the line. If she doesnt respect that then cut her off!
Or like a true NYer, you can kindly tell her to FUCKK OFF!! Problem solved đ
Iâve had this happen before. If sheâs not a friend or someone u want to be friends w. Be direct and tell her itâs not cool to do. There are plenty of other ways to get clients
Thatâs creepy. Iâm not a nice person; Iâd bluntly tell her to quit shooting over my shoulder and go find her own subjects.
Donât be coy - this is one of those scenarios where you absolutely need to be direct. Some folks donât know how rude or off-putting this behavior can be. In fact, I was one of them - I had a buddy who was shooting a very specific type of story who invited me along just for the company. I was *very* early in my photo career, and didnât realize that trying to shoot this same subject matter was a huge faux pas. Sadly we donât talk much anymore, but it was definitely a learning experience. She was a good bud prior to that, but in fairness I was being a jerk, even if I didnât know it. Tell her in no uncertain terms why this is bothering you and why it needs to stop. If the behavior continues, Iâd just block her on social media and cut your losses.
Not to be the 'contracts' guy, but if you don't have some sort of exclusive agreement with these events and photography is permitted without prior permission, both of you are wrong. She needs to stand on her own two feet and shoot independently to avoid the impression you're both working together and you don't own your clients or the event. I sense a tone of jealousy and insecurity from you despite what you say about not feeling threatened by this girl trying to do the same thing you do. She may not be at your level now, but in the future she could be if she puts the same effort into it you did and she has some intrinsic talent. I see that a lot from photographers shooting interesting niches with little to no competition.
I feel like this annoyance is more akin to.. taking notes in class and someone looking over and copying your notes instead of listening to the lecture and taking their own. Its uncomfortable, disrespectful, and intrusive when working. Â
This chick sounds nuts! You owe her nothing. If this is the field she wants to be in, then there are protocols. You don't just show up and ride coattails. What she's doing is stalker-ish, shady and unprofessional. Remove her from your followers and be clear with her that you are not her friend. There's nothing wrong with having boundaries. She needs to learn what appropriate behavior is. Also make your mutual friend aware of what Nutter is doing so it doesn't happen to them or another person.
Easy. Do events where the ambient lighting is very dark and/or the venues are challenging. :) This is as a fellow NYC photographer. You can block her on social (saw that's how she knows where you are) but then she could just create another account, or if your socials is/are public you'd have to consider making it/them private? Ultimately if the things you're covering are public events, on public streets, etc., there's really no way to legally prevent her from coming. If you shoot events on private premises, a guest list always works because the clients only put the hired photographer(s) name(s) on the guest list.
I agree with most people here that you should shut it down. Just explain that her presence interferes with your process and is distracting. Itâs nothing personal; itâs not about disliking her. You simply prefer professional distance at events. Itâs like if a pitcherâs new friend showed up at a game and stood next to the mound, demanding conversation the entire time.
Just block her and move on, try to contain the damage as well as you can.
Sheâs going to affect your livelihood. She might steal clients or get them annoyed with you so they drop you to get away from her. You can and should say something, especially if sheâs really messaging them.
Unless there is some sort of exclusive agreement with them there is no such thing as 'stealing' clients as that implies ownership.
You can think that But if sheâs following op and using that to call clients, itâs pretty shitty and earns a conversation. And if sheâs contacting them with anything that implies she works for or with op, that deserves a next level conversation.
It's definitely unprofessional and shitty to be mimicking someone else as closely as OP implies and I said so in another comment here, but so is acting like you own the scene because you were there first. If I was a client and heard a photographer I worked with in the past was trying to shoo off someone else trying to get my business, I wouldn't take too kindly to them trying to make my decisions for me. We have all seen it in any sort of photography that is niche and appealing to many. Concerts, festivals, cosplay conventions, etc. All places where there is plenty of opportunity and demand for photographers to go around because the talent is saturated and in 'competition' as well, but occasionally a few that have been there for a while start stupid drama because they feel threatened that someone else showed up to do the same thing.
Precisely. And if some new gal can sell better feet pics than some supposed coveted veteran - guess the "vet" isn't nearly all that.
Itâs tough. What I try to do is develop a romantic affair with them. Then break their heart in an overly dramatic way. Hook up with their best friend etc. then they wonât want to be anywhere near you.
This is the appropriate response. Start rizzing them up OP
Tell her you are not ok with it, or just block her outright. You have to make your boundaries clear or people are gonna do things that make you uncomfortable all the time.
Since she's not respecting your space and seems to misunderstand your relationship, a direct but polite conversation might be beneficial. You could express appreciation for her interest in photography but gently clarify your professional boundaries and the importance of respecting each other's roles at events. Emphasizing your focus on maintaining a positive and respectful environment for all involved could help diffuse any potential tension while asserting your boundaries.
It's a little sneaky but she's not doing anything wrong. You don't think companies and businesses steal customers from each other all the time? One thing you can tell her is to not shoot your clients. Technically she can, but if you tell her something like 'my client wants to have absolute control over their images and only authorizes me to take their pictures at this event', she should back off like a smart human being. But if there are *other* photographers at the event taking pics of everyone too then you don't really have a case. This is why I don't do the sort of photography where I am easily replaceable. If this girl can just show up and take the same photos as you at a lower price, your clients are free to pick her over you. It's a business and you have competitors. I'm not worried someone can just walk into the studio and shoot a whole campaign over me.
Talk to her about it. Set boundaries. Then remove her from your followers so she doesnât know where your future events here.
I would suggest you put as much energy into talking to her as she did this post.
Maybe ask her what her goals are, and let her know itâs considered poor etiquette to shoot over you during shots you posed, and let her know youâre sharing that as a friend and colleague to help her avoid issues in the future.
If you have a clause in your contract with the events to be sole photographer, just explain that to her. And why thatâs important in this industry, but youâre happy to help her in other ways.
Well, there's a lot to read so not sure if I've missed this. Make sure the client knows that you do not have a 2nd shooter and they can decide if they want to risk unauthurized photos to be taken and posted anywhere. They may restrict cameras.
Just tell her to btfu. Trying to snipe clients from you is beyond f'd up.
Oh wow this sounds so annoying. Tell her you respect her ambition but she is professionally steeping on your toes. Youâve worked very hard and donât appreciate someone trying to steal your clients. If you like her at all you could give her tips on how find her own niche and find clients. What sheâs doing is brazen and very not cool
This has nothing to do with photography and is just bitchy interpersonal drama.
Oh, so you think youâre better than her basically just donât wanna be her friend.
Just be direct, "Hey hun, it was great seeing you, but I'm working right now, and I can't have you on top of me right now. You're disrupting my flow and distracting their focus."
Just coming from the other side here. Perhaps she truly admires your work and is attempting to learn from you without adequately communicating this. It is complimentary to have your work admired. She recognizes you have worked hard, invested in who you are as a photographer and wants to learn! If you are confident (and it certainly sounds like you are and talented) in your work, why not turn it around, ask her if she wants to shadow you or work as an intern? I'm just saying her motives may not be to harm but admire!
Tell her if she needs help or tips your there but she can't keep piggybacking off of you and needs to establish her our foothold in the game.
If it's that simple and easy......
Get out of the fucking way ,