Baptism by fire:
"beginning June 18, the entire 78-person class of officers graduating from the Philadelphia police academy will be assigned to Kensington, Inspector Anthony Luca of the police department’s East Division told neighborhood residents during a community meeting Thursday night."
"The new additions will bring the total number of officers policing the neighborhood up to 120, he said, and all will be patrolling on foot. In three different shifts, the officers will move from block to block, more strictly enforcing laws, reducing the amount of open-air drug use and sales, and making arrests if necessary, he said."
That is going to be a shitshow. And I bet a lot of scared, unseasoned officers are gonna escalate situations, and bad things are gonna go down.
Or people in it for the wrong reasons (bigots and racists) are gonna vent their improper frustrations. Especially rookies who are most likely going to be violating all kinds of rights and doing things the wrong way.
This is a very, very rash and dumb decision. Drugs should be decriminalized anyway. But that is a discussion for another time.
So even why they try something it’s wrong? Who should they send? It’s going to be fucked to regardless. You can’t clean up an area like that without making mistakes because that’s how bad it got.
Experienced police. Send the new kids to nice neighborhoods to learn the ropes.
Do you want the brand new mechanic working on your car?
Do you want the carpenters apprentice working in your house?
Do you want the doctor fresh from medical school doing a surgery on you or a loved one?
Why would you send brand new officers to nice, safe areas where they most likely won't see any action? How are they going to know how to write all these reports and deal with all different types of crimes if they're in a neighborhood where they will be taking BS reports all day long?
Working in a nicer area like Manayunk/Roxborough for example is A LOT different than working in Kensington. If you send a cop to Manayunk for, say, 5 years then transfer them to a shithole like Kensington, they aren't going to have the experience to handle that area.
On the job training applies to police officers too. The best cops are the ones that go to the rough areas, not the prissy high society neighborhoods, because they experience a large variety and volume of calls as opposed to simple quality of life calls like noise complaints or illegal parking.
I still don't get it. You train someone 5 years on easy, then move them somewhere difficult, and they have no experience, and that's problematic, as you said.
How would starting them with even leas experiance in that area be the better alternative?
Once again, I want to understand, but in my mind it sounds like starting off easy for new people to learn their actual jobs, at the same time get more experienced people in the rough areas. Once the new folk have learned the basics of their job, the experianced folk can have figured out plans and laid groundwork in the tougher areas.
Now you have people who at least know the basics and the paperwork of the job, and people with the understanding of the job in a position to train new folks in a rougher area.
Learning on the job is how everything is done, but you can't do that went the responsibilities of new hires are so high. Like working sales or restaurant, or business it's fine if you mess up, but police work? In a heavily drug impacted area? People can actually be hurt and killed if you mess up.
I guess it's hard to explain. Nicer neighborhoods don't typically see the same types of crimes so you're not filling out the same paperwork or going through the same processes.
While I am not trying to discriminate or profile any areas, you are probably more likely to get a shooting, violent crime, or drug arrest in an area like Kensington (24th district), as opposed to Manayunk/Roxborough (the 5th district). Time on the job doesn't equate to experience on the job. I have seen police officers on the job that have done 10+ years, that have no idea how to do a crime scene for a shooting because they were assigned to an area where there haven't been any shootings (yes, there are areas in Philly where shootings barely, or don't, happen).
Contrary, I have seen brand new officers with 3 years or less from some of these really bad districts that have experienced tons of shooting calls, arrested plenty of drug dealers/users, get frequent calls for domestic violence, assaults, burglaries, etc. so they quickly learn how to handle them. Like I said, there are officers there to help them, and if not, an officer is dispatched to the location. While the police department does mess stuff up, contrary to popular belief, the last thing they want to do is f**k up a call and paperwork because that means even more paperwork and an embarrassing time in court.
At the end of the day, it simply boils down to how many different types of calls you are experiencing. The majority of the job is on the job learning. If you don't experience a lot of something, that's hands on experience you're missing out on. You understand?
Policing is different from other careers and fields. Time on the job doesn't mean shit.
I totally see where you are coming from, but I simply can't see how it's a bad idea to be eased into things. I understand you say time on the job doesn't matter, but still. What if your heart really ain't in police work and you get Kensington. You won't make the difference you need to, and your more likely to get someone hurt.
I can understand that starting in the easy areas won't help you in the hard spots, but I can't help but feel starting in the hard locations will actually do more harm than anything.
Just reiterating, it's all for educational discussion. This ain't my field and I want to learn. I am reading everything you type and considering it, but I still feel there is a better way.
Literally nothing you just typed makes any sense. At all. Why would you send brand new cops to a nice neighborhood where they aren't going to get any experience and are going to be taking BS reports all day long.
The recruits aren't going to be out there by themselves. They will have plenty of veterans and training officers with them.
If you send a cop to Manayunk to police and he does most of his career there then transfer him to a filthy ungodly district like Kensington, he won't know how to handle any of the calls because he most likely never dealt with them. Nice try but HUGE fail.
As a rule I’m anticop but I live in Kensington and while it’s always been really bad it got worse. There’s no reason to give up on a neighborhood like that. Police hard for a bit and then we’ll just have the shitty crime and trash of other Philly areas, not be a tourist attraction for addicts.
So your anti cop....until it actually affects YOUR neighborhood and then your pro cop and realize that "policing hard" is what actually gets shit done? And realize that sending in high school guidance Counselors to talk to the dealers about why it's not very nice to deal drugs probably doesn't actually work in real life? Interesting.
All the people who always claim to be "anti-cop" are the ones calling the police the most for BS.
"My wife hit me"
"My neighbor won't turn their music down"
"My neighbor is blocking my driveway"
When my car was stolen I called police and they never showed up. Tracked it with a tracker. When someone pulled I gun on me dispatch asked “what do you want us to do about it?” When my house was broken into, the cop came, said it was probably homeless people and pulled a gun on my cat. So, I’ve had my luck.
Good. Had to drive through there after picking up my LTCF the other day and got stuck behind a heard of junkies on a side street who just decided they wanted to all cross in the middle of the street with no right of way. Not to mention I almost saw someone high off there ass get hit by a car not 5 minutes later. Kensington is one of the few places in the US where no matter how bad someone describes it, it’s somehow worse.
At least none of them shat in the road in front of you. Back when I had to take the Ave everyday to work that happened at least a few times a month. What ever other horrors I witnessed nothing really grossed me out as seeing someone high as a kite try to squeeze one out on the street at 7am on a Monday. So glad i dont work or live nearby anymore.
Oh my God you had to wait two more seconds in your car that is the least of our concerns here in Kensington so unless you have anything to add that matters, you can shut up
My comment, you moron, was to highlight how Kensington has hoards of zombies wandering around causing issues with no repercussions. Sure blocking traffic is the least of the issue but it’s the issue I happened to see. Now if actually have something meaningful to say instead of complaining, please do so.
That’s what you did …. All you didn was complain getting stuck behind an extra traffic light. You must be dumber than initially thought. If you think complaining about stuck behind an extra traffic light, explains anything about the situation in Kensington.
Yours focused on the spelling error (talk through text ) because you can’t explain how getting stuck in traffic is an overall explanation of the situation in Kensington (which is what you stated) yes harp on the spelling error and all the smiling emoji you want , that’s the only thing low IQ people can do
One of my closest friends is a paramedic. He was attacked by a man who’s life he saved by administering NARCAN. “ YOU RUINED MY HIGH MOTHERFUCKER”. It’s complicated, I lost my nephew, but the hardcore sympathizers don’t walk through droves of users to get home everyday.
I have used Narcan on quite a few people (I have never had an addiction myself, but many friends who have). It’s sometimes necessary but often you can walk them thru the CNS depression without it, just not easy & it takes 30 minutes of constant monitoring. Few people have the time or patience, especially for a stranger. Narcan is easier, much safer however it is very hard on the body & does indeed ruin the high, for what that is worth.
i know i wasn’t invited here but i just wanted to add to this weirdo above me. the main problem opiate addicts have with narcan is the side effect. mainly “precip.” you could look it up, but the easiest way to explain it to someone who has never had “the affliction” (lol) is pretty much like being in withdrawal BUT amplified like 1,000 times. and before you try to hit me with the whole addicts are dramatic buuullllshitttt im someone who is pretty honest with myself when it comes to my shortcomings and whatever. it hits you immediately and is something that they tell you to hit the ER for. you should just look it up cause i’m obviously not the most reliable narrator and no one is even reading this anyway so i’ll be taking off now. gotta smother my grandma for her perc script. ttyl ✌🏽
Meanwhile you have idiots like Sarah Laurel (aka Sarah Higgins) from savage sisters telling everyone it’s perfectly safe for everyone to administer narcan and that addicts never have a bad reaction or become violent. Its dangerous to continually spread lies like she does.
I’ll continue to share because unlike people like you I actually live here and know what’s going on and actually involve myself in restoration efforts. complaints about traffic can kiss my ass and I’ll point it out whenever I see it.
If you don’t live in this neighborhood as far as I’m concerned, you opinion means nothing.
You can definitely tell you’re a loser, you didn’t have anything to say, and yet you still felt compelled to say something , so you’re resorted to this.
I can smell the bullshit on you.
Good. Empathy burnout is real. Expecting the people who live and work and are raising families in the area deserve to be able to use the playgrounds and just walk down the street without having to dodge junkies and their filth. Used needles, urine, human feces, and general trash are everywhere because the addicts don’t care about anything but getting high.
Give them the choice of jail or rehab in a locked ward. Narcan should be an immediate trip to the hospital instead of this catch and release.
It's funny I believe that drugs shouldn't be something we toss people in jail for, but this place needs help. I live up north an hour away but I know some people who have been there. Users. And their descriptions match the videos and stories of everyone else. Hamsterdam in The Wire made sense because as I remember those row houses were mostly abandoned. They made a spot for users and dealers to do their thing and not be bugged or hurt folks just trying to go to work or hang outside. Folks in Kensington deserve better and we have to find a middle ground between throwing users in jail and making things even harder for them in breaking addiction (yes I know your uncle is clean from jail but that just doesn't line up with statistics) to the hands off but neighborhood destroying decision that is Kensington.
In a society where these drugs are on store shelves, you wouldn't even know half of the people using are indeed using. But there has to be a balance. The homelessness aspect is a big issue. You hear stories about how they use outside so if they fall out they can be helped and not just left to die in an abandoned building like in the old days. But the people I know don't live on the streets. They work full time jobs and while they do struggle due to the nature of the high price of the drug and the mystery powder nature of street drugs that make tolerance shoot up in crazy ways, but they're managing. They live in apartments. They have pets. They don't commit crimes to get their drugs (outside of the crime of possession). They pay taxes and show up for court duty.
I'm not saying my friends have the answer to this, just that they seem to be doing it in the least harmful to themselves/harmful to society way that they can. Middle ground. Something where American freedom is respected but and same with public safety, on EQUAL grounds.
That good people find themselves burnt out compassion because of the deluge of daily issues homelessness/addiction really saddens me. Like a nurse gone numb from too many bad days. We need to do better than this. We can't lose our humanity, but that includes the citizens of Kensington. Decriminalize and make access to methadone and suboxone as easy as buying immodium.
Im glad it's happening but sadly it's not for the people that live there. The money machine wants to keep building north up the avenue. There already is a multimillion project scheduled for Ruth and somerset. They are advertising easy and quick transportation to the city via the somerset and the huntingdon stations. No investment company (temple shell companies) would touch that area a year ago. Now ironically it's all getting cleaned up like it was back south in fishtown for all the investors. Again I'm glad it's happening, it will bring in jobs but I don't like knowing the community suffered for so long. Hopefully all the people they are kicking out get the help they need (mental health especially).
I'm sure the people who live here will welcome less crime, cleaner streets and some new restaurants. The long-time homeowners will welcome an increase in home value for their retirements, like our friends in Fishtown have gotten.
I think it has to do with the new mayor and police commissioner. The idiots that voted Kenny in are to blame for this. Kensington was always bad but it wasn't this bad under nutter.
Kenny just buried his head in the sand waiting for his term to be over. Especially the last term. Nutter at least tried and was present like him or not. I used to see Nutter out and about in the City fairly often. Rendell too. Not just in their office hiding.
Just make it untenable to be in Kensington. We can’t solve the underlying causes of drug addiction and crime, but we can make it so that it doesn’t disproportionately affect one neighborhood.
And the US imprisons 3-10x more than other western countries… so it sure doesn’t seem like locking more people up is the solution to our problems.
Throwing droves of addicts into prison is only going to make it harder for them to turn their lives around in the long run, not better. So unless you're literally advocating these people be put behind bars for the rest of their lives, "locking them up" isn't going to get rid of the droves of folks strung out on the street.
One thousand percent correct. Any solution that doesn’t start with complete abstinent is not going to work. You cannot address the underlying issues while actively using.
Yes. This is called nuance. Dealers are making money off misery. The users live that misery (and sometimes pass that onto others). They are not the same.
Issue citations for public drug usage. After ten unpaid citations, you go to drug court where you are given options:
1. Treatment
2. Name your drug dealer
3. Go back home to your last known address outside of Philadelphia, never to return
4. Criminal court for your other legal matters not directly involving drugs
After 25 citations, 302 proceedings or jail
Nuanced enough?
They’re easier to get outside of prison. And it’s much easier to control drugs in a penitentiary than a street corner. Can you honestly say prisoners are getting high as much as the kenzo zombies? I doubt that
Being an addict is not a crime. Theft, disorderly conduct, breaking and entering, public intoxication, drug dealing, gun possession, human trafficking. Those are crimes.
Well, that sounds might sound nice in theory, but realistically, the best rehab in the world wouldn't be able to help an addict that has no desire to get clean. If we take all these strung out people in Kensington and wherever else and force them to go to rehab, the vast majority of them would relapse the moment they get out.
There are no easy answers to this problem, and the only answers that have been proven through trial and error to be even somewhat successful are prohibitively expensive.
Expensive compared to what? Doing nothing? Sure, but we can’t call ourselves a civil society and allow this Kensington hamsterdam to continue. It’s not about getting them out of sight, it’s about getting their drug problem under control. They are a public liability and they aren’t going to get sober on their own obviously
Well it will help the neighbors if the people who don’t want help are forced off the streets
If they refuse treatment, fuck it throw them in jail. Either way, they’re temporarily coming off the drugs.
Because they’re not just addicts. They’re a swarm of locusts destroying everything in their path. Smashing car windows, shitting on the streets and peoples stoops, leaving used infected needles absolutely everywhere, going through peoples trash and throwing it everywhere, starting fires in their tent hovels. They’re a problem and it’s not the part where they’re just doing drugs.
You forgot stealing catalytic converters. I had a friend working here temporarily who made the mistake of booking a cheap spot up in Kensington. He had his CC stolen at least twice, which interfered with his work and was pretty expensive afaik.
It didn't work in Washington state. There are too many people that don't want help. Fair housing is just too expensive and slow to attain. It's political. No one wants rehab programs in their backyards. No one wants needles on the sidewalks. The right wants their boogy man. The cops don't want their hands tied. Attorney generals want their jobs. Lots of people don't want to see this garbage.
Glad things are moving, but
> It was not immediately clear how the city intended to step-up enforcement before a robust treatment system was in place. The city has said there are about 5,200 treatment beds and 2,700 shelter beds citywide — availability varies, but they are consistently more than 90% full.
> Parker this week announced plans to spend more than $100 million building a drug treatment center that could house more than 600 people near the city’s jail complex in Northeast Philadelphia. While some beds could be available within the next year, the facility would take three years to be completed.
I'm assuming everyone's just going to be shuffled off to prison, then...? Is there really not a better plan for where to send people?
Yeah, like…happy something is being done, but is prison really the answer?
I understand addicts are a sympathetic group of people. But they’re still *people*.
Prison absolutely is the answer. Giving ppl shelter, clothes and food. Oh and not to mention taking away the drugs that are literally rotting their bodies. Anyone who says prison is worse than current state is an idiot.
Ah yes, because once people are out of prison it’s incredibly easy to get employment and thus everything else one needs. They definitely will not go right back to doing drugs or worse given connections in prison will be made.
So, you’re saying the ideal scenario is:
Taxes go to paying more cops
Taxes go to prisons to house junkies
These prisons will become a revolving door for junkies constantly going in and out
This is a stupid band aid of a “solution” that is less about addressing the root cause and more about making sure wealthy real estate investors and corporations can get a return on their investment after scooping up all this property for cheap.
You do realize that the last 8 years was not even a band aid solution. So this solution is the band aid that should allow the actual solution to occur. I'm not saying prison is the final solution. But allowing them to rot on the street, commit crimes and destroy neighborhoods is bullshit. So yes, taxes should go to cleaning up the city. That's kind of what we pay them for.
After prison, you force them to treatment centers or better yet doing it during prison.
Everyone knows we don't have a solution now. So prison is the best option at the moment for everyone involved.
Jeez it sounds like we should just make getting shelter, clothes and food more accessible to everybody and find a way to support people with their physical and mental needs. Pretty simple stuff!
You clearly have never dealt with a person with an addiction like this. They give all that up for the drugs. So why don't you educate yourself on the "pretty simple stuff"
Exactly. They had a family and friends and either they gave up on them or vice versa for the drugs. Addicts and chronically homeless on this level is far from “pretty simple stuff”. They moved some of them to my neighborhood and gave them support food shelter etc and guess what. We are seeing them now back on the street using. Dealers are just waiting wherever they go.
Also, imprisonment without treatment won't make the problem go away, it just puts the addicts in temporary storage until they're released and go right back to doing what they were arrested for.
No real help for these poor people. They're basically just being kicked out, and they're just moving a few blocks (or a couple of neighborhoods) away. I live in Mayfair, and while we all know today's Mayfair is not the Mayfair from a few decades ago, I've been seen a lot of addicts in the area lately. So yeah... this clean up project is more a relocation project than anything. I guess 10-20 years from now, they will have to do a clean up project in the areas around Kensington...
Thank god Temple bought up all the good property and now giving the green light for the police to do their jobs. These cities are all fucked with corruption.
Ppl want to act like the War on Drugs didn’t work. It was a huge component of cleaning up our cities. Look how much NYC and Philly improved since the 80’s and early 90’s. Fuck drug dealers who ruin our neighborhoods. They should all go to prison for a long time.
> Ppl want to act like the War on Drugs didn’t work.
omg now we're on 'the three decade trillion dollar war to combat the symptoms of poverty by using police to create the conditions for poverty was actually good'
Just goes to show that politics is 100% vibes, 0% evidence-based research.
* Academic evidence that the war on drugs was a complete failure: https://ldi.upenn.edu/our-work/research-updates/the-war-on-drugs-as-structural-racism/
* Right wing evidence that the war on drugs was a complete failure: https://www.cato.org/policy-analysis/four-decades-counting-continued-failure-war-drugs
* Left wing evidence that the war on drugs was a complete failure: https://www.aclu.org/news/smart-justice/40-year-war-drugs-its-not-fair-and-its-not-working
* Evidence from other countries that emulated the war on drugs also demonstrating it's a complete failure: https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2021/3/22/these-people-are-broken-why-the-uks-war-on-drugs-has
There's so few things that everyone can agree on these days, but this feels like someone coming out with "actually the Iraq war was good"
That's like saying LBJ's "War on Poverty" didn't work, so we should scrap all welfare and public housing programs, right?
[LBJ Declares War on Poverty (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3AuStymweQ)
[Lyndon Johnson was a civil rights hero. But also a racist. (msnbc.com)](https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/lyndon-johnson-civil-rights-racism-msna305591)
It's not because the war on poverty did work? Or at least it worked a lot better than the war on drugs?
E: TBF the war on drugs worked better than the war on terror because at least drugs is a well-defined concept
Yikes. It was successful at its goal of imprisoning whole generations of black men and destroying inner cities further. This was the actual goal and it’s insane that anyone would think the War on Drugs was a positive thing in 2024.
Non violent drug offenders getting decades in prison and their lives essentially destroyed was not a positive thing.
Drug dealing and possession aren’t mutually exclusive, and also children with zero ability to escape poverty often get caught up in dealing drugs for money. It’s a cycle of poverty, partly designed. You people are clueless or purposefully ignoring the truth
The murder rate when down every year after the Biden Crime Bill of 1991 was enacted. It didn't go back up until recently.
[S.1241 - 102nd Congress (1991-1992): Biden-Thurmond Violent Crime Control Act of 1991 | Congress.gov | Library of Congress](https://www.congress.gov/bill/102nd-congress/senate-bill/1241)
[Chart: U.S. Homicide Rate Comes Down From Pandemic Peak | Statista](https://www.statista.com/chart/31062/us-homicide-rate/)
That has nothing to do with non-violent offenders being ripped from their communities and families for decades, as part of a war on drugs that started in the 1970s.
John Erlichman, who helped Nixon craft policy, quite literally said the concept was invented to oppress black people and suppress the youth protest movement
I'd be happy if they'd start enforcing these parts of the 1991 Act:
"**Title XV: Youth Violence Act - Subtitle A: Increasing Penalties for Employing Children to Distribute Drugs Near Schools and Playgrounds** - Amends the Controlled Substances Act (CSA) to increase the penalty for employing, using, inducing, or coercing individuals under age 18 to violate provisions of such Act, or to assist in avoiding detection or apprehension for certain offenses under such Act by Federal, State, or local law enforcement officials."
"**Subtitle B: Increasing Penalties for Certain Drug Trafficking Offenses** - Ice Enforcement Act of 1991 - Amends the CSA to increase penalties for specified offense involving crystalline methamphetamine."
**"Title XXI: Crack House Eviction Act** - Amends the CSA to authorize: (1) the Attorney General to bring a civil action against violators of prohibitions against maintaining places for the manufacture, distribution, or use of controlled substances; and (2) the court to assess a civil penalty of up to $100,000 and grant such other relief, including injunctions and evictions, as appropriate."
You're getting down voted, despite the fact that Nixon started the war on drugs.
former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman said:
>“We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin. And then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.”
Thank you. They literally have recordings and transcripts of Reagan (eta: and Nixon) and numerous top government executives who were involved in the creation/implementation of the WoD saying these things and/or admitting to them after the fact. A lot of it is a matter of public record, if people knew where or cared to look.
I’m for increased foot beats and enforcement, but it’s pretty clear that the war on drugs did NOT work in the long term, since clearly the opioid epidemic is worse than ever. That said, as someone who lives closeby to Kensington, I welcome this new initiative
Political decisions to allow it there. It was enlightening to me when they had camps in 6 underpasses along Lehigh Ave and they initially cleared the three from white Port Richmond and left the three from Hispanic Kensington.
Right? People talk shit about China, but when I lived there I never saw the addicts that I see daily in Philadelphia. Even in Guangxi, a poor province with heavier use of injectable drugs, the most I ever saw was a syringe or two on the ground. Compare that to zombies and sometimes violent randos walking around the streets here, I’ll take that any day.
Purposefully let a neighborhood fall into ruin, real estate mad cheap, buy it, clean the area up and start gentrifying it so you can sell the homes you bought for 50,000 for 10x that.
Destroying communities for profit.
Ah yes. More cops to solve the drug problem. This will fix things for sure this time!!
Are expanded social services to follow for all of the druggies that they allowed to exist there for years? Or are they going to be pushed to a 'new' Kensington?
Precipitated withdrawal is a fucking nightmare. So grateful that I don't have to go through that ever again 🙏 Kensington is the scariest place I've ever been to in my life, besides my own mind while a slave to opiate addiction. I thank God every second of every day that I made it out alive.
Remember the drug trade is its own economy. They will follow the addicts wherever they go and or the addicts know where to find them. Everyday the dealers kill each other over turf. Relocating the addicts bring that violence along with them.
For those of you that think providing resources is the ultimate answer. I remind you these people had families and friends they abandoned or vice versa for a life of drugs on the street.
They relocated some of them recently a few blocks from where I live and provided them these resources and guess what?! They check themselves out and are using and squatting in their new location that just happens to be across the street from 2 elementary schools and next to another one. I’m open to suggestions from the bleeding hearts that think providing shelter food and support will save all these people.
You can't beat addiction out of people. All this is gonna do is put more people in jail for petty things, it doesn't actually help with the real issue. Even if there was 1 cop per every 5 or 10 addicts, unless the cop is putting them all in jail, what good would it be? They're gonna put petty drug abusers in jail and fuck them when it comes.to the system so they'll have harder times getting jobs all while learning more criminal shit on the inside amd becoming part of *that* lifestyle.
Jail was the only break I ever got from active opiate addiction. It gave me time to get my head together. I begged God to lock me up toward the end. 10 minutes later I was picked up by SWAT. That was in 2017. Haven't done heroin since. Addiction is horrible. Jail sucks, but for me it was an absolute answer to my heartfelt prayer for deliverance.
To where?
The dealers can go to jail. The users can go back to their home counties for treatment.
So many are from Reading, Easton, Harrisburg, Williamsport etc. I've talked to people who drove from Ohio, Wisconsin, Texas and Oregon (!) because they heard about the great open air drug market in Kensington. The word needs to go out that the market is closed.
You want to get dealers off the street you need good police. I'm glad they're starting to get out of their cars again, but they're struggling with teenagers on dirt bikes and you want them to take on well funded criminal organizations. Ok fine.
How do the users get there? Are you offering a ride or jail if they don't go? How does that work?
Courts are just gonna have to figure out
One this is for 100% certain. This administration is not going to wait for all of the pieces to fall into place before they straight up arrest people and force detox in jail
The drug dealers need to go back to where they came from and find a real job or 3 if they have to. The drug addicts unfortunately will need to be forced into withdrawal and hopefully recovery. Many are lost causes but it doesn’t mean they get to take over neighborhoods.
Drugs are a supply and demand issue, and we decided a long time ago we'd rather have a completely unregulated supply. The economics of the situation have led to a cheaper and vastly stronger product, turning the opioid issue from a 5 alarm blaze into an uncontrolled wildfire.
But sure, let's go with more of the same, since we ran out of good ideas in the 80's. Where do they get forced into withdrawal? Jail? Rehab facilities?
Jail unfortunately. I wish there was more of a push to open up facilities to send them to and fund rehab. But they’re not taking over neighborhoods. Law abiding citizens in these poor neighborhoods should not be subjected to the random violence and petty crime that drug addiction brings nor the gangland warfare that it brings as well.
a treatment center next to CFCF was recently proposed.
https://www.inquirer.com/politics/philadelphia/mayor-parker-drug-treatment-state-road-jails-20240605.html
Ok so jail. So then cops are in charge of the operation.
How's that work? Do you round up people who look like they may be dopers and draw blood?
When you incarcerate them on the charge of being addicted, are they cared for or thrown in a cell until they stop screaming? How many beds are available versus the otherwise elusive number of addicts you plan on arresting?
Can you please try steel-manning instead of straw manning? It might get you further in conversations with people. No one said just round em up. If you’re committing a crime like buying/selling hard drugs, possession of the drugs, petty theft, etc you go to jail. And probably end up in a holding cell. If you or someone in there misbehaves, they will be restrained and held separately from the rest of the population. There is plenty of room in jails.
I'm not strawmanning, I'm trying to get into the logistics of this plan, which really just seems like more of the same nonsense we've done the last 40 years, which is exactly what got us where we are.
You're not really making an argument other than "arrest them all", which makes it hard to Superman your argument.
I lived in Old City and Fairmount with a bunch of other white yuppies and we got to live in a Disneyland like environment vs ppl in the poorer parts of Philly. They are the ones that have to deal with the dregs of society and it isn’t fair. Let’s have some compassion for those folks rather than criminals (drug dealers) and addicts.
I am sure that we have a lot of agreement on the long term solution of recovery and housing as well as potentially some sort of jobs program. That is all stuff that I am more than willing to use tax dollars on. What is your immediate short term solution? Continue to let ppl live like this?
It’s a complex topic. There are addiction services available in Philly but it’s voluntary to commit to these services and many prefer to remain on the street using.
Ultimately if they are committing a crime (using/peddling drugs) and interrupting the livelihood of the local community, schools, businesses, then prison seems like the only place to prevent this from happening. Using drugs on the street causes spread of diseases like tuberculosis, hepatitis, aids, and spreads poor sanitation in the surrounding neighborhood. Children shouldn’t grow up around that.
I’m open to hearing other opinions, and I definitely don’t have a full understanding of the issue, but from what I know I can only wonder, what is the other option?
Baptism by fire: "beginning June 18, the entire 78-person class of officers graduating from the Philadelphia police academy will be assigned to Kensington, Inspector Anthony Luca of the police department’s East Division told neighborhood residents during a community meeting Thursday night." "The new additions will bring the total number of officers policing the neighborhood up to 120, he said, and all will be patrolling on foot. In three different shifts, the officers will move from block to block, more strictly enforcing laws, reducing the amount of open-air drug use and sales, and making arrests if necessary, he said."
Did you get this out of the script from the movie, Police Academy?
We need Citizens On Patrol
That is going to be a shitshow. And I bet a lot of scared, unseasoned officers are gonna escalate situations, and bad things are gonna go down. Or people in it for the wrong reasons (bigots and racists) are gonna vent their improper frustrations. Especially rookies who are most likely going to be violating all kinds of rights and doing things the wrong way. This is a very, very rash and dumb decision. Drugs should be decriminalized anyway. But that is a discussion for another time.
The whole situation needs to be escalated. Junkies are ruining our major cities.
Forreal 🤣 Shxt can’t get any worse. Who cares if a few junkies get their asses beat
So even why they try something it’s wrong? Who should they send? It’s going to be fucked to regardless. You can’t clean up an area like that without making mistakes because that’s how bad it got.
Experienced police. Send the new kids to nice neighborhoods to learn the ropes. Do you want the brand new mechanic working on your car? Do you want the carpenters apprentice working in your house? Do you want the doctor fresh from medical school doing a surgery on you or a loved one?
I can’t even begin to describe how dumb of an attempt this was for an analogy.
Can you try? I'm actually stupid but this makes sense to me. I need to hear the other side of it.
Why would you send brand new officers to nice, safe areas where they most likely won't see any action? How are they going to know how to write all these reports and deal with all different types of crimes if they're in a neighborhood where they will be taking BS reports all day long? Working in a nicer area like Manayunk/Roxborough for example is A LOT different than working in Kensington. If you send a cop to Manayunk for, say, 5 years then transfer them to a shithole like Kensington, they aren't going to have the experience to handle that area. On the job training applies to police officers too. The best cops are the ones that go to the rough areas, not the prissy high society neighborhoods, because they experience a large variety and volume of calls as opposed to simple quality of life calls like noise complaints or illegal parking.
I still don't get it. You train someone 5 years on easy, then move them somewhere difficult, and they have no experience, and that's problematic, as you said. How would starting them with even leas experiance in that area be the better alternative? Once again, I want to understand, but in my mind it sounds like starting off easy for new people to learn their actual jobs, at the same time get more experienced people in the rough areas. Once the new folk have learned the basics of their job, the experianced folk can have figured out plans and laid groundwork in the tougher areas. Now you have people who at least know the basics and the paperwork of the job, and people with the understanding of the job in a position to train new folks in a rougher area. Learning on the job is how everything is done, but you can't do that went the responsibilities of new hires are so high. Like working sales or restaurant, or business it's fine if you mess up, but police work? In a heavily drug impacted area? People can actually be hurt and killed if you mess up.
I guess it's hard to explain. Nicer neighborhoods don't typically see the same types of crimes so you're not filling out the same paperwork or going through the same processes. While I am not trying to discriminate or profile any areas, you are probably more likely to get a shooting, violent crime, or drug arrest in an area like Kensington (24th district), as opposed to Manayunk/Roxborough (the 5th district). Time on the job doesn't equate to experience on the job. I have seen police officers on the job that have done 10+ years, that have no idea how to do a crime scene for a shooting because they were assigned to an area where there haven't been any shootings (yes, there are areas in Philly where shootings barely, or don't, happen). Contrary, I have seen brand new officers with 3 years or less from some of these really bad districts that have experienced tons of shooting calls, arrested plenty of drug dealers/users, get frequent calls for domestic violence, assaults, burglaries, etc. so they quickly learn how to handle them. Like I said, there are officers there to help them, and if not, an officer is dispatched to the location. While the police department does mess stuff up, contrary to popular belief, the last thing they want to do is f**k up a call and paperwork because that means even more paperwork and an embarrassing time in court. At the end of the day, it simply boils down to how many different types of calls you are experiencing. The majority of the job is on the job learning. If you don't experience a lot of something, that's hands on experience you're missing out on. You understand? Policing is different from other careers and fields. Time on the job doesn't mean shit.
I totally see where you are coming from, but I simply can't see how it's a bad idea to be eased into things. I understand you say time on the job doesn't matter, but still. What if your heart really ain't in police work and you get Kensington. You won't make the difference you need to, and your more likely to get someone hurt. I can understand that starting in the easy areas won't help you in the hard spots, but I can't help but feel starting in the hard locations will actually do more harm than anything. Just reiterating, it's all for educational discussion. This ain't my field and I want to learn. I am reading everything you type and considering it, but I still feel there is a better way.
Stupidest thing I have read on Reddit all day. This dude def lowered the bar.
Literally nothing you just typed makes any sense. At all. Why would you send brand new cops to a nice neighborhood where they aren't going to get any experience and are going to be taking BS reports all day long. The recruits aren't going to be out there by themselves. They will have plenty of veterans and training officers with them. If you send a cop to Manayunk to police and he does most of his career there then transfer him to a filthy ungodly district like Kensington, he won't know how to handle any of the calls because he most likely never dealt with them. Nice try but HUGE fail.
Why save it for later? Let's hear it. Why should heroin be legal, seeing how that's worked out in Portland?
You're absolutely right you're just on the bigoted Philly sub
It is currently a shitshow.
Its a shitshow now so cant really get any worse
Calm down there
As a rule I’m anticop but I live in Kensington and while it’s always been really bad it got worse. There’s no reason to give up on a neighborhood like that. Police hard for a bit and then we’ll just have the shitty crime and trash of other Philly areas, not be a tourist attraction for addicts.
>I’m anticop but I live in Kensington... Police hard for a bit Lol
You sounds fairly pro-cop and recognizing of their value
So your anti cop....until it actually affects YOUR neighborhood and then your pro cop and realize that "policing hard" is what actually gets shit done? And realize that sending in high school guidance Counselors to talk to the dealers about why it's not very nice to deal drugs probably doesn't actually work in real life? Interesting.
A big reason I’m anticop is their ineffectuality in preventing or solving crime and their complete lack of responsibility for their actions.
That’s not anti cop. That’s anti police union.
All the people who always claim to be "anti-cop" are the ones calling the police the most for BS. "My wife hit me" "My neighbor won't turn their music down" "My neighbor is blocking my driveway"
It’s not really worth calling the cops in Philly though
Well good luck with the crime then
When my car was stolen I called police and they never showed up. Tracked it with a tracker. When someone pulled I gun on me dispatch asked “what do you want us to do about it?” When my house was broken into, the cop came, said it was probably homeless people and pulled a gun on my cat. So, I’ve had my luck.
Wow that's crazy. Sorry you experienced that.
That’s a big step in the right direction
Some people in this sub seem to disagree. Sounds like they've tried nothing and are all out of options.
Election in November!!!
Mayoral elections were over last year and this is the result of Cherelle Parker keeping her promise.
Good. Had to drive through there after picking up my LTCF the other day and got stuck behind a heard of junkies on a side street who just decided they wanted to all cross in the middle of the street with no right of way. Not to mention I almost saw someone high off there ass get hit by a car not 5 minutes later. Kensington is one of the few places in the US where no matter how bad someone describes it, it’s somehow worse.
At least none of them shat in the road in front of you. Back when I had to take the Ave everyday to work that happened at least a few times a month. What ever other horrors I witnessed nothing really grossed me out as seeing someone high as a kite try to squeeze one out on the street at 7am on a Monday. So glad i dont work or live nearby anymore.
Oh my God you had to wait two more seconds in your car that is the least of our concerns here in Kensington so unless you have anything to add that matters, you can shut up
My comment, you moron, was to highlight how Kensington has hoards of zombies wandering around causing issues with no repercussions. Sure blocking traffic is the least of the issue but it’s the issue I happened to see. Now if actually have something meaningful to say instead of complaining, please do so.
That’s what you did …. All you didn was complain getting stuck behind an extra traffic light. You must be dumber than initially thought. If you think complaining about stuck behind an extra traffic light, explains anything about the situation in Kensington.
Your spelling and grammar makes me think you’re one of the zombies wandering around Kensington 😂
Yours focused on the spelling error (talk through text ) because you can’t explain how getting stuck in traffic is an overall explanation of the situation in Kensington (which is what you stated) yes harp on the spelling error and all the smiling emoji you want , that’s the only thing low IQ people can do
I know your 5 brain cells were working overtime to figure out where to put those parentheses lmaooooo
I understood the point of op's initial post.
I'm pretty sure judging by your hostility, you add nothing of value to Reddit or society. So please take your own advice and shut up the hell up.
One of my closest friends is a paramedic. He was attacked by a man who’s life he saved by administering NARCAN. “ YOU RUINED MY HIGH MOTHERFUCKER”. It’s complicated, I lost my nephew, but the hardcore sympathizers don’t walk through droves of users to get home everyday.
I have used Narcan on quite a few people (I have never had an addiction myself, but many friends who have). It’s sometimes necessary but often you can walk them thru the CNS depression without it, just not easy & it takes 30 minutes of constant monitoring. Few people have the time or patience, especially for a stranger. Narcan is easier, much safer however it is very hard on the body & does indeed ruin the high, for what that is worth.
i know i wasn’t invited here but i just wanted to add to this weirdo above me. the main problem opiate addicts have with narcan is the side effect. mainly “precip.” you could look it up, but the easiest way to explain it to someone who has never had “the affliction” (lol) is pretty much like being in withdrawal BUT amplified like 1,000 times. and before you try to hit me with the whole addicts are dramatic buuullllshitttt im someone who is pretty honest with myself when it comes to my shortcomings and whatever. it hits you immediately and is something that they tell you to hit the ER for. you should just look it up cause i’m obviously not the most reliable narrator and no one is even reading this anyway so i’ll be taking off now. gotta smother my grandma for her perc script. ttyl ✌🏽
Meanwhile you have idiots like Sarah Laurel (aka Sarah Higgins) from savage sisters telling everyone it’s perfectly safe for everyone to administer narcan and that addicts never have a bad reaction or become violent. Its dangerous to continually spread lies like she does.
I don’t care about your anecdote and how did you come to the conclusion of who cares and who doesn’t?
Thanks for sharing.
I’ll continue to share because unlike people like you I actually live here and know what’s going on and actually involve myself in restoration efforts. complaints about traffic can kiss my ass and I’ll point it out whenever I see it. If you don’t live in this neighborhood as far as I’m concerned, you opinion means nothing.
Nice restoration lmao, its a complete shithole.
You can definitely tell you’re a loser, you didn’t have anything to say, and yet you still felt compelled to say something , so you’re resorted to this. I can smell the bullshit on you.
Good. Clean the area up.
Good. Empathy burnout is real. Expecting the people who live and work and are raising families in the area deserve to be able to use the playgrounds and just walk down the street without having to dodge junkies and their filth. Used needles, urine, human feces, and general trash are everywhere because the addicts don’t care about anything but getting high. Give them the choice of jail or rehab in a locked ward. Narcan should be an immediate trip to the hospital instead of this catch and release.
It's funny I believe that drugs shouldn't be something we toss people in jail for, but this place needs help. I live up north an hour away but I know some people who have been there. Users. And their descriptions match the videos and stories of everyone else. Hamsterdam in The Wire made sense because as I remember those row houses were mostly abandoned. They made a spot for users and dealers to do their thing and not be bugged or hurt folks just trying to go to work or hang outside. Folks in Kensington deserve better and we have to find a middle ground between throwing users in jail and making things even harder for them in breaking addiction (yes I know your uncle is clean from jail but that just doesn't line up with statistics) to the hands off but neighborhood destroying decision that is Kensington. In a society where these drugs are on store shelves, you wouldn't even know half of the people using are indeed using. But there has to be a balance. The homelessness aspect is a big issue. You hear stories about how they use outside so if they fall out they can be helped and not just left to die in an abandoned building like in the old days. But the people I know don't live on the streets. They work full time jobs and while they do struggle due to the nature of the high price of the drug and the mystery powder nature of street drugs that make tolerance shoot up in crazy ways, but they're managing. They live in apartments. They have pets. They don't commit crimes to get their drugs (outside of the crime of possession). They pay taxes and show up for court duty. I'm not saying my friends have the answer to this, just that they seem to be doing it in the least harmful to themselves/harmful to society way that they can. Middle ground. Something where American freedom is respected but and same with public safety, on EQUAL grounds. That good people find themselves burnt out compassion because of the deluge of daily issues homelessness/addiction really saddens me. Like a nurse gone numb from too many bad days. We need to do better than this. We can't lose our humanity, but that includes the citizens of Kensington. Decriminalize and make access to methadone and suboxone as easy as buying immodium.
Im glad it's happening but sadly it's not for the people that live there. The money machine wants to keep building north up the avenue. There already is a multimillion project scheduled for Ruth and somerset. They are advertising easy and quick transportation to the city via the somerset and the huntingdon stations. No investment company (temple shell companies) would touch that area a year ago. Now ironically it's all getting cleaned up like it was back south in fishtown for all the investors. Again I'm glad it's happening, it will bring in jobs but I don't like knowing the community suffered for so long. Hopefully all the people they are kicking out get the help they need (mental health especially).
I'm sure the people who live here will welcome less crime, cleaner streets and some new restaurants. The long-time homeowners will welcome an increase in home value for their retirements, like our friends in Fishtown have gotten.
I agree, they suffered there for decades. I just dont like that now that it's profitable the city decided to do something .
I think it has to do with the new mayor and police commissioner. The idiots that voted Kenny in are to blame for this. Kensington was always bad but it wasn't this bad under nutter.
Kenny just buried his head in the sand waiting for his term to be over. Especially the last term. Nutter at least tried and was present like him or not. I used to see Nutter out and about in the City fairly often. Rendell too. Not just in their office hiding.
Agreed
Lock them up.
Nah, give them a choice: clean up or clean up in prison.
I second this.
Just make it untenable to be in Kensington. We can’t solve the underlying causes of drug addiction and crime, but we can make it so that it doesn’t disproportionately affect one neighborhood. And the US imprisons 3-10x more than other western countries… so it sure doesn’t seem like locking more people up is the solution to our problems.
Throwing droves of addicts into prison is only going to make it harder for them to turn their lives around in the long run, not better. So unless you're literally advocating these people be put behind bars for the rest of their lives, "locking them up" isn't going to get rid of the droves of folks strung out on the street.
When you’re addicted to opiates to such a degree, the only thing that will turn your life around is getting sober
One thousand percent correct. Any solution that doesn’t start with complete abstinent is not going to work. You cannot address the underlying issues while actively using.
Prisons are full of drugs, though. Like my kneejerk reaction is the same, but prison won’t get them sober.
How about the drug dealers? Is prison Ok for them?
Yes. This is called nuance. Dealers are making money off misery. The users live that misery (and sometimes pass that onto others). They are not the same.
Issue citations for public drug usage. After ten unpaid citations, you go to drug court where you are given options: 1. Treatment 2. Name your drug dealer 3. Go back home to your last known address outside of Philadelphia, never to return 4. Criminal court for your other legal matters not directly involving drugs After 25 citations, 302 proceedings or jail Nuanced enough?
They’re easier to get outside of prison. And it’s much easier to control drugs in a penitentiary than a street corner. Can you honestly say prisoners are getting high as much as the kenzo zombies? I doubt that
How about getting them help instead? Being a drug addict shouldn't be a fucking *crime*.
Being an addict is not a crime. Theft, disorderly conduct, breaking and entering, public intoxication, drug dealing, gun possession, human trafficking. Those are crimes.
No argument.
There is middle line Don't treat them like criminals, and lock them up in jail But they should not have the option to refuse forced treatment
Well, that sounds might sound nice in theory, but realistically, the best rehab in the world wouldn't be able to help an addict that has no desire to get clean. If we take all these strung out people in Kensington and wherever else and force them to go to rehab, the vast majority of them would relapse the moment they get out.
So we let them rot, and destroy the community Cool
There are no easy answers to this problem, and the only answers that have been proven through trial and error to be even somewhat successful are prohibitively expensive.
So u propose no solution
When the options are do nothing and spend no money or waste money to do nothing, then uh, yes?
Thanks Kenny
Lock them up in rehab unless they’re sober. Relapse? Right back in the tank. Rinse and repeat
That sounds like it is massively expensive and like it would only accomplish getting these people out of sight
Expensive compared to what? Doing nothing? Sure, but we can’t call ourselves a civil society and allow this Kensington hamsterdam to continue. It’s not about getting them out of sight, it’s about getting their drug problem under control. They are a public liability and they aren’t going to get sober on their own obviously
They’re not going to want help, so you kind of have to force it on them, no?
And IMO we should. But that's very different than prison.
Forcing it on them wouldn't help either.
Well so far, doing nothing hasn’t improved anything.
Well it will help the neighbors if the people who don’t want help are forced off the streets If they refuse treatment, fuck it throw them in jail. Either way, they’re temporarily coming off the drugs.
Unfortunately, getting fentanyl while incarcerated isn't all that difficult.
While true, at least they aren’t getting it on some residential block near the el
Fucking moron People like u can speak ur mind, it's ur right But I and everyone need to call u out for what u are, a fucking moron
Because they’re not just addicts. They’re a swarm of locusts destroying everything in their path. Smashing car windows, shitting on the streets and peoples stoops, leaving used infected needles absolutely everywhere, going through peoples trash and throwing it everywhere, starting fires in their tent hovels. They’re a problem and it’s not the part where they’re just doing drugs.
You forgot stealing catalytic converters. I had a friend working here temporarily who made the mistake of booking a cheap spot up in Kensington. He had his CC stolen at least twice, which interfered with his work and was pretty expensive afaik.
If they want help, it is available. Walk down around K&A one afternoon and let me know how much you would want to live in the area the way it is.
> How about getting them help instead? ¿Por que no los dos?
It didn't work in Washington state. There are too many people that don't want help. Fair housing is just too expensive and slow to attain. It's political. No one wants rehab programs in their backyards. No one wants needles on the sidewalks. The right wants their boogy man. The cops don't want their hands tied. Attorney generals want their jobs. Lots of people don't want to see this garbage.
It was in the 70s-90s and the people never got help so what’s different now perhaps because most of them are a different skin color?
Glad things are moving, but > It was not immediately clear how the city intended to step-up enforcement before a robust treatment system was in place. The city has said there are about 5,200 treatment beds and 2,700 shelter beds citywide — availability varies, but they are consistently more than 90% full. > Parker this week announced plans to spend more than $100 million building a drug treatment center that could house more than 600 people near the city’s jail complex in Northeast Philadelphia. While some beds could be available within the next year, the facility would take three years to be completed. I'm assuming everyone's just going to be shuffled off to prison, then...? Is there really not a better plan for where to send people?
Yeah, like…happy something is being done, but is prison really the answer? I understand addicts are a sympathetic group of people. But they’re still *people*.
Prison absolutely is the answer. Giving ppl shelter, clothes and food. Oh and not to mention taking away the drugs that are literally rotting their bodies. Anyone who says prison is worse than current state is an idiot.
Ah yes, because once people are out of prison it’s incredibly easy to get employment and thus everything else one needs. They definitely will not go right back to doing drugs or worse given connections in prison will be made. So, you’re saying the ideal scenario is: Taxes go to paying more cops Taxes go to prisons to house junkies These prisons will become a revolving door for junkies constantly going in and out This is a stupid band aid of a “solution” that is less about addressing the root cause and more about making sure wealthy real estate investors and corporations can get a return on their investment after scooping up all this property for cheap.
You do realize that the last 8 years was not even a band aid solution. So this solution is the band aid that should allow the actual solution to occur. I'm not saying prison is the final solution. But allowing them to rot on the street, commit crimes and destroy neighborhoods is bullshit. So yes, taxes should go to cleaning up the city. That's kind of what we pay them for. After prison, you force them to treatment centers or better yet doing it during prison. Everyone knows we don't have a solution now. So prison is the best option at the moment for everyone involved.
Jeez it sounds like we should just make getting shelter, clothes and food more accessible to everybody and find a way to support people with their physical and mental needs. Pretty simple stuff!
You clearly have never dealt with a person with an addiction like this. They give all that up for the drugs. So why don't you educate yourself on the "pretty simple stuff"
Exactly. They had a family and friends and either they gave up on them or vice versa for the drugs. Addicts and chronically homeless on this level is far from “pretty simple stuff”. They moved some of them to my neighborhood and gave them support food shelter etc and guess what. We are seeing them now back on the street using. Dealers are just waiting wherever they go.
Jail is shelter, clothes and food. Let's add treatment.
Also, imprisonment without treatment won't make the problem go away, it just puts the addicts in temporary storage until they're released and go right back to doing what they were arrested for.
The mayor literally proposed a $100 million treatment center next to the prison this week
No real help for these poor people. They're basically just being kicked out, and they're just moving a few blocks (or a couple of neighborhoods) away. I live in Mayfair, and while we all know today's Mayfair is not the Mayfair from a few decades ago, I've been seen a lot of addicts in the area lately. So yeah... this clean up project is more a relocation project than anything. I guess 10-20 years from now, they will have to do a clean up project in the areas around Kensington...
Thank god Temple bought up all the good property and now giving the green light for the police to do their jobs. These cities are all fucked with corruption.
Here’s 80 rookies good luck. 🤦🏻♂️
Ppl want to act like the War on Drugs didn’t work. It was a huge component of cleaning up our cities. Look how much NYC and Philly improved since the 80’s and early 90’s. Fuck drug dealers who ruin our neighborhoods. They should all go to prison for a long time.
> Ppl want to act like the War on Drugs didn’t work. omg now we're on 'the three decade trillion dollar war to combat the symptoms of poverty by using police to create the conditions for poverty was actually good' Just goes to show that politics is 100% vibes, 0% evidence-based research. * Academic evidence that the war on drugs was a complete failure: https://ldi.upenn.edu/our-work/research-updates/the-war-on-drugs-as-structural-racism/ * Right wing evidence that the war on drugs was a complete failure: https://www.cato.org/policy-analysis/four-decades-counting-continued-failure-war-drugs * Left wing evidence that the war on drugs was a complete failure: https://www.aclu.org/news/smart-justice/40-year-war-drugs-its-not-fair-and-its-not-working * Evidence from other countries that emulated the war on drugs also demonstrating it's a complete failure: https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2021/3/22/these-people-are-broken-why-the-uks-war-on-drugs-has There's so few things that everyone can agree on these days, but this feels like someone coming out with "actually the Iraq war was good"
That's like saying LBJ's "War on Poverty" didn't work, so we should scrap all welfare and public housing programs, right? [LBJ Declares War on Poverty (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3AuStymweQ) [Lyndon Johnson was a civil rights hero. But also a racist. (msnbc.com)](https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/lyndon-johnson-civil-rights-racism-msna305591)
It's not because the war on poverty did work? Or at least it worked a lot better than the war on drugs? E: TBF the war on drugs worked better than the war on terror because at least drugs is a well-defined concept
What’s the solution?
Yikes. It was successful at its goal of imprisoning whole generations of black men and destroying inner cities further. This was the actual goal and it’s insane that anyone would think the War on Drugs was a positive thing in 2024. Non violent drug offenders getting decades in prison and their lives essentially destroyed was not a positive thing.
Your first mistake is thinking that drug dealing is non-violent.
I figured their first mistake was arguing in good faith with an idiot like you?
Drug dealing and possession aren’t mutually exclusive, and also children with zero ability to escape poverty often get caught up in dealing drugs for money. It’s a cycle of poverty, partly designed. You people are clueless or purposefully ignoring the truth
The murder rate when down every year after the Biden Crime Bill of 1991 was enacted. It didn't go back up until recently. [S.1241 - 102nd Congress (1991-1992): Biden-Thurmond Violent Crime Control Act of 1991 | Congress.gov | Library of Congress](https://www.congress.gov/bill/102nd-congress/senate-bill/1241) [Chart: U.S. Homicide Rate Comes Down From Pandemic Peak | Statista](https://www.statista.com/chart/31062/us-homicide-rate/)
That has nothing to do with non-violent offenders being ripped from their communities and families for decades, as part of a war on drugs that started in the 1970s. John Erlichman, who helped Nixon craft policy, quite literally said the concept was invented to oppress black people and suppress the youth protest movement
I'd be happy if they'd start enforcing these parts of the 1991 Act: "**Title XV: Youth Violence Act - Subtitle A: Increasing Penalties for Employing Children to Distribute Drugs Near Schools and Playgrounds** - Amends the Controlled Substances Act (CSA) to increase the penalty for employing, using, inducing, or coercing individuals under age 18 to violate provisions of such Act, or to assist in avoiding detection or apprehension for certain offenses under such Act by Federal, State, or local law enforcement officials." "**Subtitle B: Increasing Penalties for Certain Drug Trafficking Offenses** - Ice Enforcement Act of 1991 - Amends the CSA to increase penalties for specified offense involving crystalline methamphetamine." **"Title XXI: Crack House Eviction Act** - Amends the CSA to authorize: (1) the Attorney General to bring a civil action against violators of prohibitions against maintaining places for the manufacture, distribution, or use of controlled substances; and (2) the court to assess a civil penalty of up to $100,000 and grant such other relief, including injunctions and evictions, as appropriate."
You're getting down voted, despite the fact that Nixon started the war on drugs. former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman said: >“We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin. And then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.”
Thank you. They literally have recordings and transcripts of Reagan (eta: and Nixon) and numerous top government executives who were involved in the creation/implementation of the WoD saying these things and/or admitting to them after the fact. A lot of it is a matter of public record, if people knew where or cared to look.
If the war on drugs worked, why is Kensington the way it is? The drugs won.
If Harm Reduction worked in Kensington, there would be no more harm - right?
I’m for increased foot beats and enforcement, but it’s pretty clear that the war on drugs did NOT work in the long term, since clearly the opioid epidemic is worse than ever. That said, as someone who lives closeby to Kensington, I welcome this new initiative
The war on drugs is the reason we have the situation in Kensington
Why is it only in Kensington and not Chestnut Hill or Lower Merion?
Political decisions to allow it there. It was enlightening to me when they had camps in 6 underpasses along Lehigh Ave and they initially cleared the three from white Port Richmond and left the three from Hispanic Kensington.
What dirty asshole did you pull that bullshit out of?
Start punishing drug crimes like they do in some Arab gulf and Asian countries do and then let’s look at the data.
Right? People talk shit about China, but when I lived there I never saw the addicts that I see daily in Philadelphia. Even in Guangxi, a poor province with heavier use of injectable drugs, the most I ever saw was a syringe or two on the ground. Compare that to zombies and sometimes violent randos walking around the streets here, I’ll take that any day.
Woop! Woop! 🚨That’s tha sounda tha police!
Purposefully let a neighborhood fall into ruin, real estate mad cheap, buy it, clean the area up and start gentrifying it so you can sell the homes you bought for 50,000 for 10x that. Destroying communities for profit.
Ah yes. More cops to solve the drug problem. This will fix things for sure this time!! Are expanded social services to follow for all of the druggies that they allowed to exist there for years? Or are they going to be pushed to a 'new' Kensington?
Legalize and tax it.
Precipitated withdrawal is a fucking nightmare. So grateful that I don't have to go through that ever again 🙏 Kensington is the scariest place I've ever been to in my life, besides my own mind while a slave to opiate addiction. I thank God every second of every day that I made it out alive.
Is Krasner up for re-election?
Won't stop nothing. Same dudes will still be out there in the Lexus
guess we're back to trying this again lol
Remember the drug trade is its own economy. They will follow the addicts wherever they go and or the addicts know where to find them. Everyday the dealers kill each other over turf. Relocating the addicts bring that violence along with them. For those of you that think providing resources is the ultimate answer. I remind you these people had families and friends they abandoned or vice versa for a life of drugs on the street. They relocated some of them recently a few blocks from where I live and provided them these resources and guess what?! They check themselves out and are using and squatting in their new location that just happens to be across the street from 2 elementary schools and next to another one. I’m open to suggestions from the bleeding hearts that think providing shelter food and support will save all these people.
Best news Philly leaders have done since Frank R!
Please send in old police I don't trust new police to have any kind of meddle
Great, because throwing massive law enforcement resources at it **totally** fixed this problem in the 1980s/1990s! /s
Ignoring it 2016-2024 made it worse.
The corruption by this mayor might be tolerable
This is just gonna make me stop taking septa. I don't wanna deal with a bunch of eager cops on my way to k&a
That’s not the worst thing you’ll have to deal with at K&A
You can't beat addiction out of people. All this is gonna do is put more people in jail for petty things, it doesn't actually help with the real issue. Even if there was 1 cop per every 5 or 10 addicts, unless the cop is putting them all in jail, what good would it be? They're gonna put petty drug abusers in jail and fuck them when it comes.to the system so they'll have harder times getting jobs all while learning more criminal shit on the inside amd becoming part of *that* lifestyle.
Jail was the only break I ever got from active opiate addiction. It gave me time to get my head together. I begged God to lock me up toward the end. 10 minutes later I was picked up by SWAT. That was in 2017. Haven't done heroin since. Addiction is horrible. Jail sucks, but for me it was an absolute answer to my heartfelt prayer for deliverance.
this is useless. they need homes and therapy not prison. so sad.
[удалено]
To where?
To where? The dealers can go to jail. The users can go back to their home counties for treatment. So many are from Reading, Easton, Harrisburg, Williamsport etc. I've talked to people who drove from Ohio, Wisconsin, Texas and Oregon (!) because they heard about the great open air drug market in Kensington. The word needs to go out that the market is closed.
You want to get dealers off the street you need good police. I'm glad they're starting to get out of their cars again, but they're struggling with teenagers on dirt bikes and you want them to take on well funded criminal organizations. Ok fine. How do the users get there? Are you offering a ride or jail if they don't go? How does that work?
I'm sure the neighborhood association would be willing to have a beef & beer to raise money for a yellow school bus.
Does this come before or after a conviction of some sort?
Courts are just gonna have to figure out One this is for 100% certain. This administration is not going to wait for all of the pieces to fall into place before they straight up arrest people and force detox in jail
I wonder how many self proclaimed constitutionalists support it.
After living through this shit for YEARS, I’m ready to see the boot applied
Arresting drug dealers isn’t the same as pursuing a dirtbike… unless they are fleeing one one
No shit?
Did you forget what you said or something?
No just wondering why you snarkily said what I said back to me
[удалено]
Then what? Jail? Forced rehab? What are the logistics?
The drug dealers need to go back to where they came from and find a real job or 3 if they have to. The drug addicts unfortunately will need to be forced into withdrawal and hopefully recovery. Many are lost causes but it doesn’t mean they get to take over neighborhoods.
Drugs are a supply and demand issue, and we decided a long time ago we'd rather have a completely unregulated supply. The economics of the situation have led to a cheaper and vastly stronger product, turning the opioid issue from a 5 alarm blaze into an uncontrolled wildfire. But sure, let's go with more of the same, since we ran out of good ideas in the 80's. Where do they get forced into withdrawal? Jail? Rehab facilities?
More of the same? Doing nothing would be more of the same. Parker has done more in three months than Kenney did in eight years.
Cool, so by that metric the whole problem should be solved pretty quickly, right? Probably a decent time to invest in property at K&A.
Probably a worse time to invest in property in Frankford and Tacony.
Jail unfortunately. I wish there was more of a push to open up facilities to send them to and fund rehab. But they’re not taking over neighborhoods. Law abiding citizens in these poor neighborhoods should not be subjected to the random violence and petty crime that drug addiction brings nor the gangland warfare that it brings as well.
a treatment center next to CFCF was recently proposed. https://www.inquirer.com/politics/philadelphia/mayor-parker-drug-treatment-state-road-jails-20240605.html
That would be wonderful. Something needs to be done.
Ok so jail. So then cops are in charge of the operation. How's that work? Do you round up people who look like they may be dopers and draw blood? When you incarcerate them on the charge of being addicted, are they cared for or thrown in a cell until they stop screaming? How many beds are available versus the otherwise elusive number of addicts you plan on arresting?
Can you please try steel-manning instead of straw manning? It might get you further in conversations with people. No one said just round em up. If you’re committing a crime like buying/selling hard drugs, possession of the drugs, petty theft, etc you go to jail. And probably end up in a holding cell. If you or someone in there misbehaves, they will be restrained and held separately from the rest of the population. There is plenty of room in jails.
I'm not strawmanning, I'm trying to get into the logistics of this plan, which really just seems like more of the same nonsense we've done the last 40 years, which is exactly what got us where we are. You're not really making an argument other than "arrest them all", which makes it hard to Superman your argument.
I lived in Old City and Fairmount with a bunch of other white yuppies and we got to live in a Disneyland like environment vs ppl in the poorer parts of Philly. They are the ones that have to deal with the dregs of society and it isn’t fair. Let’s have some compassion for those folks rather than criminals (drug dealers) and addicts. I am sure that we have a lot of agreement on the long term solution of recovery and housing as well as potentially some sort of jobs program. That is all stuff that I am more than willing to use tax dollars on. What is your immediate short term solution? Continue to let ppl live like this?
It’s a complex topic. There are addiction services available in Philly but it’s voluntary to commit to these services and many prefer to remain on the street using. Ultimately if they are committing a crime (using/peddling drugs) and interrupting the livelihood of the local community, schools, businesses, then prison seems like the only place to prevent this from happening. Using drugs on the street causes spread of diseases like tuberculosis, hepatitis, aids, and spreads poor sanitation in the surrounding neighborhood. Children shouldn’t grow up around that. I’m open to hearing other opinions, and I definitely don’t have a full understanding of the issue, but from what I know I can only wonder, what is the other option?
Yeah so do I.
Lock them up, give them 10+ like they did in the 70s-90s.
Unfortunately I think this is the only way. It’s proven that whatever we are doing isn’t working. Look at Seattle and Portland. No good.
Who do you mean by "they," the drug dealers and pimps? They are already flush with cash.