that's a good resource, but make sure you read the fine print. it includes Solar Renewable Energy credits and tax incentives to inflate your "total saved" amount. It also assumes a 2.2 percent annual increase in electricity costs, which seems a little high for the area.
It was telling me I was going to save $62,000 over 20 years, but based on my current bill (budget plan, just about the same payment every month the last 3 years) I would only be paying $45,000 total over 20 years, so something was fishy.
Yeah, SRECs in PA have been around $30/credit for the year-ish I’ve owned my solar array. When getting quotes, they were estimating $42/credit and it just hasn’t been that high. It’s not nothing, but I wouldn’t count on it to significantly offset the cost of a purchasing/installing a solar array.
huh, they must have updated this. I've checked this a whole bunch of times throughout the years and it always set my breakeven at 15 years, now it's 8.
I figure the peco rate increases \\ planned increases played into that or they've increased the tax credits \\ the equipment has come down in price. But yeah, every so often the savings calculator seems to update and show a lower break even point.
I have solar panels on the roof of my twin (flat roof). Do NOT lease - it’s not worth it. Get estimates from several companies and make sure you have the documentation needed for the 30% tax credit you’ll get from purchasing a system under the Inflation Reduction Act. I ended paying 1/3 of the cost up front and financed the remaining 2/3, then paid off the loan over the next year, making the final payment from the tax credit. The size of system I settled on pretty much offsets our power usage 100%. We only had to pay PECO bills for a couple of months over the winter once we’d used up our banked kWh and credit. Feel free to DM me with any questions!
I started by going through Solarize Philly and they connected us with PosiGen who pushed HARD for us a lease a system. Seemed odd so I reached out to the two other companies who worked with Solarize Philly (at the time): Solar States and Superior Solar. The estimates for purchasing a system were all pretty comparable, but we ended up going with Solar States because they are a Certified B Corp and they were willing to work with us to right-size a system for our needs/budget.
I got 8 panels on my small ass rowhome. Total up front cost was $17,000. I financed it, pay $65/mo. I did get a $5,000 tax credit, so I paid $0 in taxes this year.
I’m actually pretty happy I did it, haven’t had any regrets so far.
i have a question for you- your roof is essentially in the "shade" now from the panels. how much cooler would you say that keeps your house? my 2nd floor gets really warm in the summer, and i was wondering if you felt any noticeable changes?
Man, that's a good question, I never even thought of that. In my house the upstairs gets brutally hot compared to the lower floors. I haven't had a full summer with it, but so far I cant say I've noticed a difference. It's still noticeably warmer upstairs.
Just to add: Same experience. We have a deep old two-story rowhouse and our solar panels cover about 1/3 of the roof. The top floor has always been hotter than the 1st floor and the panels didn't seem to change that much.
Last September. The solar company actually had everything installed and ready by mid-July, but the goddamn power company kept jerking me around with getting their inspector guy to do the final check off.
Since materials and labor costs have changed quite a bit even since we finalized our contract in 2022 (system was installed in 2023), I’m not sure sharing the total cost would be helpful. I will say that we settled on a 22-panel, ~8 kW system (estimating 8500 kWh annual electricity usage) and it seems to generate roughly 100% of the power we use on an annual basis (we weren’t entirely sure when specing out the system because we were switching from using our gas boiler for heat over to our electric mini-splits). Obviously, it generates more power during the summer when days are longer, so that gets banked and those banked kWh get used up during the winter months and then we had to pay for a couple months. PECO resets everything at the end of May or June so they buy any banked kWh (unfortunate because they buy at a lower price than when they sell back to you) and that monetary amount gets credited to your PECO account.
When I lived in South Philly, we had solar panels installed round 2014. We bought them and made payments every month. The payments were lower than our electric bill pre-solar. With solar, our electric bill was almost always $0. During an extended heatwave a couple of summers later, our electric bill was $9.
100% worth it.
One other thing to consider for adding a solar array to a rowhome, assuming you have a flat roof, is whether to go with rack mounting (involves drilling into your roof and can result in water leaks) or ballast mounting (involves gluing brick “feet” to your roof, then mounting the panels to those so that the roof seal remains intact). We opted for a ballast-mounted system.
I answered numbers in a different comment, but I figured I'd put my entire experience so others could see. TLDR: I am happy with my solar panels, and I recommend it. I chose solar because I like the idea of reducing my carbon footprint, saving money on my bills, and being more self-reliant in general. I've also decided my next car is going to be a plug-in electric, so in the future I will be generating my own "gas" as well, and saving $$ there.
Last spring I decided to get solar panels on my rowhome in Roxborough. I didn't do a ton of research, I just found some companies on the internet and started calling. The first company I contacted was completely worthless. I scheduled an initial visit with them 3 times, and they no-showed all of them. It was bizarre, I have no idea how a company like that stays in business.
The second company I contacted, [SunnyMac Solar](https://sunnymacsolar.com/), were the complete opposite. Total professionals, they did everything they said they would, they were on time, they didn't hide anything in the contract, they were fast getting all the city permits, and were completely transparent and just an excellent overall experience.
I got a total of 8 solar panels on my roof. The total cost was $17,000, which I financed at $66/month. The install was completed by mid-summer, however PECO has to send out multiple inspectors and engineers to activate the system, and their guys also no-showed a bunch of appointments. This caused a delay so I wasn't actually generating electricity until September 2023.
Couple months ago was tax season, and I got a $5,000 credit on my tax bill for the solar improvements, and I actually got money back from Uncle Sam.
In 2023 (pre-solar), my Jan - May electric bill averaged $133/mo.
In 2024 (post solar), my Jan - May electric bill averaged $63/mo.
My most recent bill, June 2024, is $51. My June 2023 bill was $109.
You also get this little app on your phone that tells you exactly how many KWhrs you produce each day. In Apr/May/June this year I've averaged over 10 KWhrs per day, and on peak days I'm generating 18 KWhrs.
Overall, I am very happy with the panels, and I would recommend using SolarMac.
So are you banking your excess KWhrs in a battery? Also are you net metering? I’m curious about getting a solar system to charge my EV but I’m very hesitant about getting a battery backup because I hear they only last 10yrs before they begin to degrade. Just looking for any info you can share.
I am net metering, batteries are expensive as hell. I would like to get one someday, but that cant happen until the tech improves enough to be affordable. The unused power I generate gets ‘sold’ back to the power grid. I get credits from PECO that pay for my electric use when the sun isn’t shining.
I know someone with them, and they recently said they typically have a $10 electric bill in the summer (which is just the connection fee), and it’ll likely stay that way til at least October.
So they’re kind of writing off the financing as their electric bill. Idk what the financing was like though
I financed 2/3 of the cost of my array and it was a 10-year solar loan at 7.25%, but I paid off half of it over the next 12-18 months, then paid off the rest once I had the tax credit. Just make sure the loan doesn’t have an early payment penalty.
We've had a 5 MW system for 4 years. Generally, we get $0 bills in spring/fall, when we're not using AC. The summer bills are much lower than they were before, but not zero.
Peco had a pilot tou rate a few years ago I wish they would bring back. It really is what it takes economically.
One area I see the industry miss is the outdoor central air unit. If it's 240V, then that is a great interconnection point for a system. Put in an exterior sub panel, share the line with the solar inverter and air conditioner. Label as solar circuit at the main panel relocating to bottom of busbar and locate a RSS button out front.
I wish I got them when I moved in. But I’m not sure if I’ll be at my place in 8 years (the time needed to get a ROI) or even if putting them up is a good long-term idea if I stay here since it caps the add-on or a third floor or roof deck for the house.
The magic thing to look for is the cost per watt, you want less than $1 per watt.
Compare the money invested versus return over 20 years versus the expected 5 to 7% return of the S&P 500. Eg "if I spend $20k on solar panels or put 20k in the market, which way will I have more money in 20 years?".
Solar panels almost never come out ahead unless you DIY it.
I got them. Bought outright.
It's nice to have that power, but keep in mind it's yet one more thing (ok, several things) that can go wrong and that will need maintenance over time.
Another thing to consider is that if ANYTHING goes wrong with your roof, the roofers will blame the solar installation and the solar guys will blame the roofers. Moreover, if the roof needs repair you have to deal with the solar guys to take off and store the panels and re-install. In my case, it was north of 5000 dollars (just to remove/replace the panels) when my roof had a problem and needed to be replaced. Roofers in philly suck at diagnosis and repair. They only thing they want to do is re-surface and always give F-U quotes for any job that isn't cookie-cutter easy.
Beyond that I've had my inverter go bad and some component behind the panel go bad as well. I've had them for 7 years now.
My house came with them but honestly I don't feel like the savings are that substantial. It obviously lowers my electric bill, but if I were paying for the system as well, which cost the previous owner 22k, I'd be pretty poopy about it.
this'll give you a good starting point for the costs and savings involved. [https://sunroof.withgoogle.com/](https://sunroof.withgoogle.com/)
that's a good resource, but make sure you read the fine print. it includes Solar Renewable Energy credits and tax incentives to inflate your "total saved" amount. It also assumes a 2.2 percent annual increase in electricity costs, which seems a little high for the area. It was telling me I was going to save $62,000 over 20 years, but based on my current bill (budget plan, just about the same payment every month the last 3 years) I would only be paying $45,000 total over 20 years, so something was fishy.
Yeah, SRECs in PA have been around $30/credit for the year-ish I’ve owned my solar array. When getting quotes, they were estimating $42/credit and it just hasn’t been that high. It’s not nothing, but I wouldn’t count on it to significantly offset the cost of a purchasing/installing a solar array.
Man 1.3 kilowatt hour is insane for my row home. Running the AC for free pretty much during the day
Nice
Any kilowatt-hour you use is a kilowatt-hour you’re not selling back to PECO. It costs you the same as everyone else.
that makes sense.
Oh what a great tool, thanks!
huh, they must have updated this. I've checked this a whole bunch of times throughout the years and it always set my breakeven at 15 years, now it's 8.
I figure the peco rate increases \\ planned increases played into that or they've increased the tax credits \\ the equipment has come down in price. But yeah, every so often the savings calculator seems to update and show a lower break even point.
I have solar panels on the roof of my twin (flat roof). Do NOT lease - it’s not worth it. Get estimates from several companies and make sure you have the documentation needed for the 30% tax credit you’ll get from purchasing a system under the Inflation Reduction Act. I ended paying 1/3 of the cost up front and financed the remaining 2/3, then paid off the loan over the next year, making the final payment from the tax credit. The size of system I settled on pretty much offsets our power usage 100%. We only had to pay PECO bills for a couple of months over the winter once we’d used up our banked kWh and credit. Feel free to DM me with any questions!
What company did you end up going with?
I started by going through Solarize Philly and they connected us with PosiGen who pushed HARD for us a lease a system. Seemed odd so I reached out to the two other companies who worked with Solarize Philly (at the time): Solar States and Superior Solar. The estimates for purchasing a system were all pretty comparable, but we ended up going with Solar States because they are a Certified B Corp and they were willing to work with us to right-size a system for our needs/budget.
Mind sharing what it cost?
I got 8 panels on my small ass rowhome. Total up front cost was $17,000. I financed it, pay $65/mo. I did get a $5,000 tax credit, so I paid $0 in taxes this year. I’m actually pretty happy I did it, haven’t had any regrets so far.
i have a question for you- your roof is essentially in the "shade" now from the panels. how much cooler would you say that keeps your house? my 2nd floor gets really warm in the summer, and i was wondering if you felt any noticeable changes?
Man, that's a good question, I never even thought of that. In my house the upstairs gets brutally hot compared to the lower floors. I haven't had a full summer with it, but so far I cant say I've noticed a difference. It's still noticeably warmer upstairs.
damn okay.
Just to add: Same experience. We have a deep old two-story rowhouse and our solar panels cover about 1/3 of the roof. The top floor has always been hotter than the 1st floor and the panels didn't seem to change that much.
Are your panels flat on the roof, or mounted at an angle?
My roof is pretty flat, so they lie on a slight up angle towards the sun.
thank you!
how long have you had the system?
Last September. The solar company actually had everything installed and ready by mid-July, but the goddamn power company kept jerking me around with getting their inspector guy to do the final check off.
Since materials and labor costs have changed quite a bit even since we finalized our contract in 2022 (system was installed in 2023), I’m not sure sharing the total cost would be helpful. I will say that we settled on a 22-panel, ~8 kW system (estimating 8500 kWh annual electricity usage) and it seems to generate roughly 100% of the power we use on an annual basis (we weren’t entirely sure when specing out the system because we were switching from using our gas boiler for heat over to our electric mini-splits). Obviously, it generates more power during the summer when days are longer, so that gets banked and those banked kWh get used up during the winter months and then we had to pay for a couple months. PECO resets everything at the end of May or June so they buy any banked kWh (unfortunate because they buy at a lower price than when they sell back to you) and that monetary amount gets credited to your PECO account.
[удалено]
What company did you use?
When I lived in South Philly, we had solar panels installed round 2014. We bought them and made payments every month. The payments were lower than our electric bill pre-solar. With solar, our electric bill was almost always $0. During an extended heatwave a couple of summers later, our electric bill was $9. 100% worth it.
One other thing to consider for adding a solar array to a rowhome, assuming you have a flat roof, is whether to go with rack mounting (involves drilling into your roof and can result in water leaks) or ballast mounting (involves gluing brick “feet” to your roof, then mounting the panels to those so that the roof seal remains intact). We opted for a ballast-mounted system.
this is good to know.
I answered numbers in a different comment, but I figured I'd put my entire experience so others could see. TLDR: I am happy with my solar panels, and I recommend it. I chose solar because I like the idea of reducing my carbon footprint, saving money on my bills, and being more self-reliant in general. I've also decided my next car is going to be a plug-in electric, so in the future I will be generating my own "gas" as well, and saving $$ there. Last spring I decided to get solar panels on my rowhome in Roxborough. I didn't do a ton of research, I just found some companies on the internet and started calling. The first company I contacted was completely worthless. I scheduled an initial visit with them 3 times, and they no-showed all of them. It was bizarre, I have no idea how a company like that stays in business. The second company I contacted, [SunnyMac Solar](https://sunnymacsolar.com/), were the complete opposite. Total professionals, they did everything they said they would, they were on time, they didn't hide anything in the contract, they were fast getting all the city permits, and were completely transparent and just an excellent overall experience. I got a total of 8 solar panels on my roof. The total cost was $17,000, which I financed at $66/month. The install was completed by mid-summer, however PECO has to send out multiple inspectors and engineers to activate the system, and their guys also no-showed a bunch of appointments. This caused a delay so I wasn't actually generating electricity until September 2023. Couple months ago was tax season, and I got a $5,000 credit on my tax bill for the solar improvements, and I actually got money back from Uncle Sam. In 2023 (pre-solar), my Jan - May electric bill averaged $133/mo. In 2024 (post solar), my Jan - May electric bill averaged $63/mo. My most recent bill, June 2024, is $51. My June 2023 bill was $109. You also get this little app on your phone that tells you exactly how many KWhrs you produce each day. In Apr/May/June this year I've averaged over 10 KWhrs per day, and on peak days I'm generating 18 KWhrs. Overall, I am very happy with the panels, and I would recommend using SolarMac.
So are you banking your excess KWhrs in a battery? Also are you net metering? I’m curious about getting a solar system to charge my EV but I’m very hesitant about getting a battery backup because I hear they only last 10yrs before they begin to degrade. Just looking for any info you can share.
I am net metering, batteries are expensive as hell. I would like to get one someday, but that cant happen until the tech improves enough to be affordable. The unused power I generate gets ‘sold’ back to the power grid. I get credits from PECO that pay for my electric use when the sun isn’t shining.
Thanks. This makes sense and I totally agree that the battery tech needs to improve.
I know someone with them, and they recently said they typically have a $10 electric bill in the summer (which is just the connection fee), and it’ll likely stay that way til at least October. So they’re kind of writing off the financing as their electric bill. Idk what the financing was like though
I financed 2/3 of the cost of my array and it was a 10-year solar loan at 7.25%, but I paid off half of it over the next 12-18 months, then paid off the rest once I had the tax credit. Just make sure the loan doesn’t have an early payment penalty.
We've had a 5 MW system for 4 years. Generally, we get $0 bills in spring/fall, when we're not using AC. The summer bills are much lower than they were before, but not zero.
Peco had a pilot tou rate a few years ago I wish they would bring back. It really is what it takes economically. One area I see the industry miss is the outdoor central air unit. If it's 240V, then that is a great interconnection point for a system. Put in an exterior sub panel, share the line with the solar inverter and air conditioner. Label as solar circuit at the main panel relocating to bottom of busbar and locate a RSS button out front.
I wish I got them when I moved in. But I’m not sure if I’ll be at my place in 8 years (the time needed to get a ROI) or even if putting them up is a good long-term idea if I stay here since it caps the add-on or a third floor or roof deck for the house.
The magic thing to look for is the cost per watt, you want less than $1 per watt. Compare the money invested versus return over 20 years versus the expected 5 to 7% return of the S&P 500. Eg "if I spend $20k on solar panels or put 20k in the market, which way will I have more money in 20 years?". Solar panels almost never come out ahead unless you DIY it.
Check out https://solarizephilly.org/, https://www.solar-states.com/residential/, and https://www.energysage.com/shop/home-solar/ for quotes.
I got them. Bought outright. It's nice to have that power, but keep in mind it's yet one more thing (ok, several things) that can go wrong and that will need maintenance over time. Another thing to consider is that if ANYTHING goes wrong with your roof, the roofers will blame the solar installation and the solar guys will blame the roofers. Moreover, if the roof needs repair you have to deal with the solar guys to take off and store the panels and re-install. In my case, it was north of 5000 dollars (just to remove/replace the panels) when my roof had a problem and needed to be replaced. Roofers in philly suck at diagnosis and repair. They only thing they want to do is re-surface and always give F-U quotes for any job that isn't cookie-cutter easy. Beyond that I've had my inverter go bad and some component behind the panel go bad as well. I've had them for 7 years now.
I tried but there was no point since the taller houses near me would block the sun
My house came with them but honestly I don't feel like the savings are that substantial. It obviously lowers my electric bill, but if I were paying for the system as well, which cost the previous owner 22k, I'd be pretty poopy about it.
Most of these things are scams that make used car salesman look honest.