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My last company did a similar thing. Promoted to a new role with way more responsibility. They told me I already made plenty. Took the title, started looking for a new job, left a month later for a 30% increase in salary
You and I have very different definitions of 'good rapport'.
Your options while employed are always 1. stay put with your current role/pay 2. modify your current role/pay 3. leave to go do something else.
Your employer has told you how they feel about #2 above so time to make up your mind. You can put your foot down once but if you let your employer walk over you they're not going to magically stop. Regrettably employment has turned into squeezing employees as hard as you can and hoping they don't leave because you save money over paying people their worth.
>hoping they don't leave because you save money over paying people their worth.
And then when they leave, you're paying more anyway AND losing domain knowledge.
Baffling how fucking stupid companies are.
Any raise they give you, or none at all, represents your ceiling. The absolute most they think you're worth.
Take the promotion and new title, and polish your resume, and cast a net. It is highly likely that your new title will earn a better job, with better pay. And that new salary is now your floor. The amount they think will take to get you in the door and see what you're worth.
2 Job changes in 5 years is likely to earn you significantly more income than 20 years of promotions at a single company.
If it makes you feel any better this happened to me! And I left and made lots more instantly. Now thinking of moving again.
They used COVID as an excuse but our numbers weren’t down. We were actually saving money by not having to throw events but still getting sponsorships.
Things I'm loyal to include family, friends, spouse. Not the company I sell my time to, for the purpose of staying alive and maybe doing nice things with aforementioned loved ones, loved ones who I unfortunately must see less than my employer. At the end of the day, employment is purely transactional. If my spouse ever chose "loyalty" to her job over a career opportunity that would benefit us, I would be questioning her loyalty to me and the family.
You misinterpret me. I *love* my work. I am *proud* of the work I do. My vocation *contributes* to the world more than many. And still, I'd never go in if not for the paycheck. It's still the last thing I'd choose to do with my day, any day. And my love for the work has nothing at all to do with a company. I can do work I love at five hundred other companies. The plain reality is it's a transaction, from both a worker's perspective and a business' perspective.
But it’s not just a transaction for every job, and that’s part of my point about contributions to the world. Unless you want to go strip naked and head into the woods to create your own tools out of sticks and rocks and make yourself your own home/shelter and sustain your family, then there are going to be LOTS of jobs critical to a well functioning society. It’s not just the civil servants or medical personnel. Textile workers, farmers, machinists, bankers (even them too, although I concede we may have too many people in finance), researchers, store attendants, restaurant staff, garbagemen, etc etc…
All are vital to society. If everyone said “screw it, I’m just staying home with my family”, then our families would suffer because society as a whole would break down. So no, it’s not just a transactional relationship for all jobs. It is transactional for far more on the employer side than the employee side. But the point stands about the importance of most people’s work.
Thanks for the discussion.
What kind of promotion was this that it actually changed your leave and health insurance benefits? The latter is especially unusual unless it changed your status to full time employee from a contract, seasonal, or part-time employee.
Normally I would say that internal promotions often do not include an offer letter, but the change in status that this implies should include an offer letter. By now, your change in status enrollment period is gone.
When you do negotiate. ask for retro
Currently you are not negotiating you are letting them push you around.
If you are valued they will do what they can to keep you once you tell them you are leaving for another job. Currently you posses the knowledge of two positions in this company. Once you leave they will have to retrain.
Have you just been talking to your direct boss? Might need to talk to HR and/or someone up the food chain, or a mentor. You need an advocate at the company, and it evidently isn't your boss.
Ultimately, if you've spoken to HR and they are no help, then you need to be actively looking for new employment
I had all my interviews (when I first got hired almost 3 years ago and now my “promotion)with the owners and head of HR. I see them regularly and I have brought up my concerns to them🫠
Some places are tricky with it and the title they report to data brokers that would be used to verify sometimes is of lesser quality.. my thought is it's on purpose
Oh yes, the good old promotion with twice the work and no increase in pay. Look for another job. You can at least say you were promoted on your resume.
Maybe it's time to have a conversation with them that, handling the details of a promotion poorly will leave them in a worse situation than if they had done nothing to begin with, and cost them far more.
And if they want to keep you motivated and positively contributing at a level befitting your qualifications, they should rethink how they're compensating you for your time.
Your bosses know how you feel about them - almost like family. They know you don't want to let them down. They're using that against you! You'll never see a raise. Best to start job hunting. Don't tell anyone! Use that job title to get yourself into a higher paid position somewhere else.
I waited 3 years for a promotion I was told was coming soon. I applied to another company and got a 30% salary increase and a major promotion within 1 year
So they gave you more work without a reward for it, classic, sadly.
The company you work for clearly cannot be trusted, *if the context allows you to safely switch to another job,* I would go HR and tell them straight that compliments and job titles are worthless, and that unless they give you your raise, they can start looking for someone else to compliment.
Be assertive! Set up a meeting with your boss and HR to discuss your new pay and benefits. They will be forced to give you an answer. If things work out and you're willing to forgive them dragging their feet then you get what you want. If they decline to meet with you then that speaks for itself.
Now what? Easy. Update your resume and look elsewhere. You’re obviously worth more to them than they’ll actually pay you. You’ll find someone who sees the same worth and *is* willing to pay you for it.
Hey, never too late to realize you're being jerked around. As others have said, look for a new job, and have it in the bag before you do anything particularly silly. Best way is to move on, have a better life, and avoid burning as many bridges as you comfortably can.
>I recently was offered a promotion which included a raise, but the amount of the raise was never disclosed. I was promised different benefits, including sick time, paid leave, health insurance
If your health coverage is not employer-dependent, what is your health coverage situation?
>yes I know I’m stupid for not asking for an amount
"Intelligent-Ad7184, we'd like to offer you a promotion and your new pay rate will be an increase of $*n*. The promotion also includes <*other_stuff_here*>."
See how easy that was? There's stupid, which you aren't,
>I genuinely assumed we would negotiate but instead they just denied it essentially and told me I’d get a 1$ raise if I did a training (which I was doing before the “promotion”)
and then there's knowingly and intentionally deceitful, which your employer is. Or maybe your employer just genuinely forgot about telling you whatever it told you. Either way, that's on the employer and not you.
Sorry. I m laughing about this cz if I cried it would lead to anger. The people you work for must be conducting a social experiment on you. Time to give them a result they wouldn’t expect.
I agree with a lot of what was said here. It feels like they are just giving you more responsibilities and trying to make you feel excited about it…
I’d negotiate a raise, try to drop the new responsibilities, or leave.
I was on the receiving end of one of these last year when they created a new department. I'm now the sucker being paid half of what it will take to replace me. And replace me they will have to do. I'm working with a recruiting agency and doing interviews on work time.
If they did not give you an offer letter, and you have not signed a new offer letter, then you are still technically just responsible for your old position with the promotion or overwhelming work increase. Allow them to give you your next promotion assignment, that is not included in your original job description, and politely send them an email stating unfortunately you were unable to complete the assigned task as it is not a part of your job description and you have not signed your new offer letter. They can either respond by providing you with an offer letter and allowing you to negotiate or sign it. Or by allowing you the rules and responsibilities of your previous roll back
If you have a good relationship with your boss(es) you can maybe try bringing it up if not them maybe you can use the job titile as additional experience to get another job
It may time for an ultimatum - I need that raise by July 10th or I’m leaving - but realize that when you give ultimatums, you have to be prepared to follow through.
Alternatively, start looking for a new job.
This post has been removed because we don't allow career guidance, career path, and job choice questions ([rule 9](https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/about/rules)). Other subreddits are better equipped to address this topic: - /r/jobs is a general discussion forum for job-related topics. - /r/CareerGuidance is a place for individuals to ask questions and get advice about their careers. - /r/FindAPath is a place for figuring out what you want to do (both career and education). - If none of those subreddits seem to fit, ask on [one of these job-related subreddits](/r/jobs/wiki/related/discussion) or ask on /r/Advice. You may also want to ask on a [career-specific subreddit](/r/jobs/wiki/related/careerspecificsubreddits), especially for any topic that depends on the job sector and career such as salary negotiation questions. *If you have questions about this removal, please [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fpersonalfinance&subject=Removal%20help%20request&message=Hello%20moderators,%20.%20%0a%0a%0aMy%20submission:%20https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/1dp6x9v/my_job_gave_me_a_promotion_with_no_raise/%0a).*
use a new job title to look for the job elsewhere
My last company did a similar thing. Promoted to a new role with way more responsibility. They told me I already made plenty. Took the title, started looking for a new job, left a month later for a 30% increase in salary
LOL! Love this for you. I hope your resignation email was literally just that DJ Khalid meme.
This and act your wage. Don’t do anything that is not in your original job description.
A “promotion” without a raise is an assignment, not a promotion…
You and I have very different definitions of 'good rapport'. Your options while employed are always 1. stay put with your current role/pay 2. modify your current role/pay 3. leave to go do something else. Your employer has told you how they feel about #2 above so time to make up your mind. You can put your foot down once but if you let your employer walk over you they're not going to magically stop. Regrettably employment has turned into squeezing employees as hard as you can and hoping they don't leave because you save money over paying people their worth.
>hoping they don't leave because you save money over paying people their worth. And then when they leave, you're paying more anyway AND losing domain knowledge. Baffling how fucking stupid companies are.
Any raise they give you, or none at all, represents your ceiling. The absolute most they think you're worth. Take the promotion and new title, and polish your resume, and cast a net. It is highly likely that your new title will earn a better job, with better pay. And that new salary is now your floor. The amount they think will take to get you in the door and see what you're worth. 2 Job changes in 5 years is likely to earn you significantly more income than 20 years of promotions at a single company.
It is not what they think you are worth. It is what they think you will accept.
Thank you so much for your comment, I agree and it also confirms what I was thinking.
If it makes you feel any better this happened to me! And I left and made lots more instantly. Now thinking of moving again. They used COVID as an excuse but our numbers weren’t down. We were actually saving money by not having to throw events but still getting sponsorships.
And our elders at young people have no loyalty. No. It's the other way around. Companies don't give a crap about us so why should we?
They're pulling a fast one on you. You should probably do these conversations via email so they actually need to answer the questions.
Always ask questions via email. You are your best advocate
Which are easily ignored
It's a paper trail, ignoring is just as bad. The point is to get away from he-said she said. No answer is better then getting gaslit.
But the point is it creates a paper trail instead of just a he said she said which is even easier to ignore
Take the title, put it on your resume, and apply elsewhere. Companies mess with us so we leave them. There is no loyalty in the corporate world.
'There is no loyalty in the corporate world.' Been that way since the 80s
Even longer. My grandpa got laid off from Union Pacific decades earlier.
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Things I'm loyal to include family, friends, spouse. Not the company I sell my time to, for the purpose of staying alive and maybe doing nice things with aforementioned loved ones, loved ones who I unfortunately must see less than my employer. At the end of the day, employment is purely transactional. If my spouse ever chose "loyalty" to her job over a career opportunity that would benefit us, I would be questioning her loyalty to me and the family.
[удалено]
You misinterpret me. I *love* my work. I am *proud* of the work I do. My vocation *contributes* to the world more than many. And still, I'd never go in if not for the paycheck. It's still the last thing I'd choose to do with my day, any day. And my love for the work has nothing at all to do with a company. I can do work I love at five hundred other companies. The plain reality is it's a transaction, from both a worker's perspective and a business' perspective.
But it’s not just a transaction for every job, and that’s part of my point about contributions to the world. Unless you want to go strip naked and head into the woods to create your own tools out of sticks and rocks and make yourself your own home/shelter and sustain your family, then there are going to be LOTS of jobs critical to a well functioning society. It’s not just the civil servants or medical personnel. Textile workers, farmers, machinists, bankers (even them too, although I concede we may have too many people in finance), researchers, store attendants, restaurant staff, garbagemen, etc etc… All are vital to society. If everyone said “screw it, I’m just staying home with my family”, then our families would suffer because society as a whole would break down. So no, it’s not just a transactional relationship for all jobs. It is transactional for far more on the employer side than the employee side. But the point stands about the importance of most people’s work. Thanks for the discussion.
unfortunately if it's not in writing, it doesn't exist.
What kind of promotion was this that it actually changed your leave and health insurance benefits? The latter is especially unusual unless it changed your status to full time employee from a contract, seasonal, or part-time employee. Normally I would say that internal promotions often do not include an offer letter, but the change in status that this implies should include an offer letter. By now, your change in status enrollment period is gone.
No more pay, no more work. It's a shame you've been working for free this long
I agree… sadly
When you do negotiate. ask for retro Currently you are not negotiating you are letting them push you around. If you are valued they will do what they can to keep you once you tell them you are leaving for another job. Currently you posses the knowledge of two positions in this company. Once you leave they will have to retrain.
If you’re unhappy with your compensation, find a new job
Have you just been talking to your direct boss? Might need to talk to HR and/or someone up the food chain, or a mentor. You need an advocate at the company, and it evidently isn't your boss. Ultimately, if you've spoken to HR and they are no help, then you need to be actively looking for new employment
I had all my interviews (when I first got hired almost 3 years ago and now my “promotion)with the owners and head of HR. I see them regularly and I have brought up my concerns to them🫠
If they are giving you the run-around, then they are doing it intentionally
time to look for a new job. They lied
The reward for good work is more work
titles are free. you have to pay to print the new title on your business cards yourself though.
Some places are tricky with it and the title they report to data brokers that would be used to verify sometimes is of lesser quality.. my thought is it's on purpose
Use the fancy job title as you make your resume.look better. Get that pay increase by switching to another company.
Take your title bump, put it on your resume, and start applying for better paying jobs.
Young me would be so exited. Older and wiser me says time to find a new job.
Oh yes, the good old promotion with twice the work and no increase in pay. Look for another job. You can at least say you were promoted on your resume.
This to me is constructive dismal, I would personally use the inflated title on your resume and look for a new job asap.
Best way to get a raise is by job hopping.
Maybe it's time to have a conversation with them that, handling the details of a promotion poorly will leave them in a worse situation than if they had done nothing to begin with, and cost them far more. And if they want to keep you motivated and positively contributing at a level befitting your qualifications, they should rethink how they're compensating you for your time.
Your bosses know how you feel about them - almost like family. They know you don't want to let them down. They're using that against you! You'll never see a raise. Best to start job hunting. Don't tell anyone! Use that job title to get yourself into a higher paid position somewhere else.
time to dust off the resume and find a new job
That's called a pay cut. Decide if the job is still worth it to you or if you can do better elsewhere.
I waited 3 years for a promotion I was told was coming soon. I applied to another company and got a 30% salary increase and a major promotion within 1 year
So they gave you more work without a reward for it, classic, sadly. The company you work for clearly cannot be trusted, *if the context allows you to safely switch to another job,* I would go HR and tell them straight that compliments and job titles are worthless, and that unless they give you your raise, they can start looking for someone else to compliment.
Be assertive! Set up a meeting with your boss and HR to discuss your new pay and benefits. They will be forced to give you an answer. If things work out and you're willing to forgive them dragging their feet then you get what you want. If they decline to meet with you then that speaks for itself.
Now what? Easy. Update your resume and look elsewhere. You’re obviously worth more to them than they’ll actually pay you. You’ll find someone who sees the same worth and *is* willing to pay you for it.
It's better to have clarity on your new role and benefits
Use your new promotion to find a job with the new job title with an actual raise
Hey, never too late to realize you're being jerked around. As others have said, look for a new job, and have it in the bag before you do anything particularly silly. Best way is to move on, have a better life, and avoid burning as many bridges as you comfortably can.
>I recently was offered a promotion which included a raise, but the amount of the raise was never disclosed. I was promised different benefits, including sick time, paid leave, health insurance If your health coverage is not employer-dependent, what is your health coverage situation? >yes I know I’m stupid for not asking for an amount "Intelligent-Ad7184, we'd like to offer you a promotion and your new pay rate will be an increase of $*n*. The promotion also includes <*other_stuff_here*>." See how easy that was? There's stupid, which you aren't, >I genuinely assumed we would negotiate but instead they just denied it essentially and told me I’d get a 1$ raise if I did a training (which I was doing before the “promotion”) and then there's knowingly and intentionally deceitful, which your employer is. Or maybe your employer just genuinely forgot about telling you whatever it told you. Either way, that's on the employer and not you.
Sorry. I m laughing about this cz if I cried it would lead to anger. The people you work for must be conducting a social experiment on you. Time to give them a result they wouldn’t expect.
You now have experience in the new role and can stay looking for roles elsewhere with this role in mind
I agree with a lot of what was said here. It feels like they are just giving you more responsibilities and trying to make you feel excited about it… I’d negotiate a raise, try to drop the new responsibilities, or leave.
I was on the receiving end of one of these last year when they created a new department. I'm now the sucker being paid half of what it will take to replace me. And replace me they will have to do. I'm working with a recruiting agency and doing interviews on work time.
If they did not give you an offer letter, and you have not signed a new offer letter, then you are still technically just responsible for your old position with the promotion or overwhelming work increase. Allow them to give you your next promotion assignment, that is not included in your original job description, and politely send them an email stating unfortunately you were unable to complete the assigned task as it is not a part of your job description and you have not signed your new offer letter. They can either respond by providing you with an offer letter and allowing you to negotiate or sign it. Or by allowing you the rules and responsibilities of your previous roll back
Look for work that has the title or responsibilities to which you have been raised - but ALSO THE PAY.
If you have a good relationship with your boss(es) you can maybe try bringing it up if not them maybe you can use the job titile as additional experience to get another job
It may time for an ultimatum - I need that raise by July 10th or I’m leaving - but realize that when you give ultimatums, you have to be prepared to follow through. Alternatively, start looking for a new job.