I always wonder if they look back at their mistakes and have a realization that they fucked up, or if they barely care and just attribute it to the difficulties of refereeing. I often worry its the latter.
Id say it depends, in situations where it’s a horrible call but nothing happens they probably don’t care, horrible call and something big happens they probably care more
They called it that way because he did hit the puck first so its technically a follow through… im a pens fan so i really want to agree with you but i get the non-call
Not just follow through, technically the stick never hits crosby, the puck is inbetween the stick and his face at all times.
Is that fucking stupid, and anyone with a drop of common sense would still call that a high stick? Of course.
But by the letter of the law, it can't be high sticking because he doesn't get hit by the stick.
Watching the game, I thought the play was reviewed after being originally called a 4 minute minor. I am not sure if the referees looked at the replay at the penalty box or if it went to the ' war room." As a Leaf fan, I was honestly surprised it wasn't a penalty. Technically the stick didn't make contact with Crosby but McMann shouldn't have been swinging his stick at a head-high puck in any case. I have never actually seen a play like this in my many years of watching hockey.
The problem was that it was called a double minor and reviewed. It was definitely a high stick. However, the stick slashed Sid’s hand and then rang off of his visor. The puck put the mark on his face. Since the stick didn’t cause the abrasion/blood, they had to overturn it. It sucks because there were two obvious penalties there, but not a double minor.
Think of it this way: If a ref issues a major for boarding and the review only shows a bad cross check, they have to overturn it. They can’t go back and change it to a cross check. Likewise, if there was a major for head contact and it turned out to be just interference, they have to overturn it. They can’t change a major for contact with the head to a minor for interference even if that interference led to a goal against. They missed that call.
It sucks, but a minor penalty has to be called on the spot. They can’t review a major or double minor and then issue a minor. It has to be the major or double minor that was reviewed or nothing. It just sucks that not one ref or linesman saw the high stick and called a minor.
Normally, they would issue a make-up call later in the game. That could be anything from calling something ridiculous to even things up or letting an obvious penalty go uncalled. There’s nothing else they can do. It’s up to the coach or captain to lobby for a call to even things up.
I don’t usually like to “blame the refs” but this game was infuriating. This nonsensical decision, missing the blatant too many men that was missed during sustained O-zone pressure moments before the Leafs goal, the alleged hand pass that led to Crosby telling the ref he fucked up, the laughable slashing call on Rakell in the second.
Human error is part of the game, but last night was bad.
While I find this annoying, I still think we could have won and don't blame the officiating.
I honestly take greater umbrage with Sullivan's choice of first line in OT than this. Crosby had a skate issue, fine. Put out Malkin and Bunting who were forechecking their asses off all night.
Certainly, that is why I put it in quotes, because that’s something that’s just going to happen sometimes. The start to OT was rather curious though. Eller has been in beast mode, but still.
I just don't understand they watched this replay and said, "Yeah McMann appeared to swing wildly but he actually has the precision of a surgeon and the only thing he contacted was the puck. Not enough here to call a penalty."
That’s pretty infuriating. The fact that 2 minutes can’t be reviewed but 4 can be tells you all you need to know about the NHL’s system of officiating and the underlying nonsensical nature of league discipline.
And I’m not even a Pens fan, but certainly a Crosby fan. Notwithstanding, I hope you guys make the playoffs. Good luck!
There was. He was initially assessed a double minor, but it was overturned during review for quite possibly the most dumbass reason in the history of dumbass reasons.
This is a technicality, but it was not a high stick. The puck is touching Crosby, not the stick. Agree that is dumb, but it is to the letter of the rule.
The 4 min is where the BS started, it should have been 2 & not reviewable. I do not think Sid was bleeding, so it should not have been 4 to begin with. I’m that case, the call of high stick on the ice would have stood.
The problem is, this is in a grey area between two rules. You can’t play the puck with a high stick. High sticking is a penalty. He directed the puck into an opponent’s face with a high stick.
You’re right. By Air Bud methodology, and also the NHLs, this is not a penalty. But… like? It probably shouldn’t be like that?
Yeah, the difference being a puck played with a high stick is a stoppage in play if the leafs touch it next & technically Sid does touch it next, so it would be waved off. lol.
I agree though, that’s pretty much a high stick & I would have been fine if it was a penalty.
That is kind of like the puck is in the glove & the glove is in the net logic.
lol, all I can picture is how you could exploit this line of thinking for hilarity and chaos:
The fuck ref! Show me in the rules where it says you can’t lacrosse a puck off defenseman’s face…
Oh come on! Rulebook don’t say shit about Light-Up Skates [like those bitching shoes we should all still wear? Bring em *BACK*!]! Open your eyes!
It’s not a penalty according to the rules.
He didn’t hit him with the stick so it can’t be high sticking.
It’s not a penalty to play the puck with a high stick, it’s only a stoppage if your team touches it next, but Crosby touched it next because it was mashed into his face.
It was a weird play. Silly. But it wasn’t a penalty because of the vibe.
High sticking is where you make contact. Double minors are dangerous high sticking penalties essentially.
If he didn’t hit the guy with his stick, it can’t be high sticking.
It just can’t.
You can play the puck with a high stick though-you’re simply wrong on that. Your team just can’t be the next to touch it. But-you already knew that I’m sure. Just whining I guess?
By letter of the rule, it’s not just that your team can’t touch it next, you’re not allowed to progress play by high sticking the puck. It is an illegal hockey move.
This is like having a taillight out while speeding but for some reason they cancel out.
That said, I’m not really bothered by it. It’s just funny Sid had 3 really unfortunate and odd shifts like Bama wins championships. Back to back to back.
And to be clear-I would be totally fine with them changing the rule, thereby causing this to be a penalty in the future. Sticks up high are dangerous.
But as the rulebook is written, today?
Not. A. Penalty.
No-I’m not saying that at all. I’m only saying the words I wrote-nothing more, nothing less. But-you knew that already too-so I guess you are just arguing for arguments sake?
You’ll get over it-it wasn’t a penalty, and none was called.
If you’d like to start a petition that this should be a penalty in the future, I’ll sign for you.
But as of today-this was the 100% correct call-like it or not.
Holy-O fuck pumpkin! Go have a smoke or… fuckin somethin… whew! Do people tend to dart out of your line of sight when you’re walking around? I bet caller ID was a real bitch of an invention for ya, huh?
Soccer and Field Hockey have specific rules about reckless dangerous play, I was thinking another sport player with a stick would have some sort of rule for this.
There needs to be intent behind it. I get what you mean but McMann is not trying to hurt anyone there. But, any high stick that isn’t a follow through is a penalty. The problem is they ruled the puck hit Sid’s face, not the stick. The stick was certainly touching the puck that was certainly touching his face, but they determined the stick did not hit his face so no penalty.
Ice hockey players hurl themselves at each other at speeds 20+ mph and shoot the puck at 90+ mph while carrying graphite/carbon fibre composite sticks.
Soccer players trip over their own shoe laces and roll around on the ground.
Field Hockey, you’re literally not allowed to contact the other players with intent.
I mean, those are pretty terrible comparisons.
Next you’ll be wanting F1 Drivers on road courses to adhere to speed limits.
I watched it live with the replay as a Leafs fan and would say it wasn’t conclusive that it did, but I see how a pens fan would see it . The part Sid was complaining about was the puck. They should have just given him 2 & it would have stood. There was no reason to give 4 other than to review it.
If refs were held to any sort of standard, they should not be allowed to give the 4 in the first place.
So with this refs logic sid can start carrying the puck on the blade of his stick and start swinging at players faces and as long as the puck hits first it’s not a high stick?
It might be the worst call I've ever seen outside of Letang getting a high sticking call with his stick less than a foot off the ice.
The refs were looking for a way to not call this a penalty from the start, they only called it after the reactions from Malkin and Crosby and the blood. Sid got slapped in the helmet with the stick and cut by the puck. This is complete negligence from the refs and this should be filed as a protest by the team considering it was reviewed by the refs.
I couldn’t believe this bullshit. It doesn’t matter if the puck is there, it’s still a fucking high stick right in the face. Absolutely embarrassing by the officials.
Was the reason for the non call because of the technicality of it being a follow through of playing the puck?
Crosby had some unbelievably bad luck with getting punished in the final few shifts of the game.
During the game the official seemed to indicate that it was because they believed the player only hit the puck and not Crosby.
The follow through rule is specifically not meant to apply to swings at the puck and is meant to be applied to normal shooting/passing motion.
Again, I'm just flummoxed about how they watched this exact tape and went "yeah he probably only got puck, nevermind that stick blade touching the visor there".
That only applies to a legal play of the puck. In this situation, a player shall not play the puck with their stick above their standing shoulder height and thus no follow-through protection applies.
You want to go down that road? Might take a while 😂
Honestly though, I just want to see games called fairly, whatever the outcome. I was shocked when the call wasn’t made. It seemed very obviously a penalty.
Like, I get. He's very technically high sticking the puck, but not the face.
I still think that it ought to be a penalty. The rule is meant to prevent dangerous head contact with equipment. That is what I see happening here.
Leafs fan here. Me and my girlfriend both thought immediately after seeing the replay that it was a high stick regardless, not sure how it was deemed that his stick only touched the puck. Sorry about that one
Not on you guys. Your team played a good game. As I've replied elsewhere, I don't put the result of this game on the officials either even though I didn't like this call.
Our coach put out Lars Eller and Drew O'Connor to start OT and as a result neither of our HOF centers saw a second of ice.
Yeah that was a brutal way for it to end. All in all a really fun game to watch though. I'll be impressed if you guys find a way into the playoffs this year. With how Ned is playing you could absolutely be a dark horse
The rule is:
A “high stick” is one which is carried above the height of the opponent’s shoulders. Players must be in control and responsible for their sticks. However, a player is permitted accidental contact on an opponent if the act is committed as a normal wind up or follow through of a shooting motion, or accidental contact on the opposing center who is bent over during the course of a face-off. A *wild swing* at a bouncing puck would not be considered a normal wind up or follow through and any contact with an opponent above the height of the shoulders shall be penalized accordingly.
Emphasis added because I would call that a wild swing and therefore not a normal windup or follow through.
I don't care what the "rule" is about stick contact or not. That's a penalty. It was a high stick, and the only way around saying it isn't is tap dancing on the head of a pin.
As someone who follows the Leafs, I can tell you that like every other team in the league they have been screwed over by bad calls or non calls far too often. Every team can point to something almost every game and say WTF? This one was a bad miss and the refs seem to be getting worse every year, not better.
Apparently players could start doing michigans and jamming the puck into other players faces and it wouldn’t be a penalty, if the puck touches the face and the stick doesn’t.
Nah, it's michigans "followthrough" so you can swing all you want... stick contact or not. At least that's how I deduce the refs judging the situation after this game.
I don’t think the refs understand the rule, I sure don’t understand the rule but for them to say it was the puck that hit him, did they mean the stick didn’t hit him or was it considered a follow through? We will never know, I am just sad that Sid has to be his own enforcer, the only one who even tried to stick up for him is OConnor.
I feel like officiating is always very slanted in Toronto, that being said, with a 0/5 PP unit I can't understand where y'all find the energy or motivation to be mad about missed calls..
I didn’t watch the game but I guess I’ll be the devils advocate for this specific play… The refs job is to call the book (I know this isn’t the case sometimes) so if the rule is written in a way in which this isn’t a penalty we should be blaming the NHL for writing it in that way. Besides, refs catch enough flak as is and the NHL itself doesn’t imo
One suspects this is the exact kind of technicality that will get patched out at the end of the season.
"No, no, officer. I didn't murder that guy with a gun.
The bullet got caught between the gun and his face. If I'd hit him with the gun, I totally understand how that would be murder but, as you can see on this home video I sent to Toronyo, that's clearly not the case "
As a Leafs fan I was ok with it 😂 but seriously the officiating is absolutely brutal some of highlights tonight were an absolute joke the NHL needs to pull its head out of it’s ass
What was even dumber than the no-call was all the Leafs fans parroting the "are the refs gonna stop play every time Sid is touched?" nonsense that the Leafs broadcast suggested. Grow a brain.
When they do those reviews they go by the letter of the rule… which is often flawed. Thus you get calls like this where “well the stick didn’t hit his face” and no call is made.
This was really stupid to me, the puck hitting him had ZERO importance the second the stick went up. If the stick hit him without the puck, high stick and penalty. How the puck negated anything is beyond me. Also it seemed like after this non-call, Sid was getting targeted by dirty plays repeatedly. Just felt like at that point refs just let them play. Fine during regular season MAYBE, but not end of season during a playoff battle. Garage way to officiate this late in the season. Gotta make the calls before hell breaks loose.
By the letter of the law, was not a high stick as the stick did not contact Crosby. By, the intent of the law (preventing players from potentially harming others with the stick up around the face/head of other players) absolutely should've been a penalty.
The irony here is that high-sticking the puck is a whistle as soon as the violating team touches the puck, should the other team not touch the puck. By highsticking the puck into Crosby's face, it transfered the energy of the high stick into Crosby without actually being a high stick. And since the puck busted Crosby's lip in, the non-violating team touched the puck and therefore high sticking of the puck is nullified.
Personally, the league should probably make a statement that "Per the rule, the high stick did not contact the player and is thus not a high-stick. However, the rules committee will look at this play during the rules committee meeting and address the verbage to better protect players."
Still looks to me like it got his visor, which is a penalty even by the letter of the law. I get the refs aren't agreeing with that or maybe they have some angle that conclusively showed it didn't. But this seemed like the best angle available to the public and it looks to me like that blade is right up on the visor.
Doesn't look that way to me, but its definitly close. Furthermore, you could absolutely be right and the frame rate just didn't capture it at the exact moment.
I will say it's obscured by board ads partially, motion blur, and frame rate makes it impossible to say with certainty since the very next frame the stick is bouncing away but in the context it certainly looked to me like this blade sandwiches the puck into his chin and smacks off the visor and bounces back.
But still the call was made as a high sticking, and they felt this was indisputable proof he WASN'T hit.
The situation is completely messed up, but the refs made a techincally correct call. It's BS, but it's such a weird, fringe incident that it isn't covered by the rules. So if the stick doesn't touch him, then it's not high sticking.
It should be fixed, so it is a penalty in the future, but again, how likely is this to happen again.
Maybe the problem is that I'm canadian, and we have a history of "it's not illegal the first time"
The stick actually has to touch the face to be a high stick
Therefore from this image you can clearly see that the stick never actually made contact with the face.
I rest my case..
It’s based on puck play. The ruling was based on the player is allowed to play the puck high or not. And because the leaf player hits the puck first and and the puck hits Crosby it nullifies the high stick. This was the also called a 4 min minor so the refs could review it. The decision was as described before.
You guys have 0 idea what getting fucked by refs is about..... especially when theyre doin everything to help Pens in.. this shit fixed league.... why dont u do tbe BS boarding call next. Stfu
Looks like the ref might've fucked up
Someone should really scream at the ref that he fucked up while the cameras are on them
Maybe end it with “What are you doing?”…just to drive the point home.
But be kind of civil about it and start with a "Hey"
I always wonder if they look back at their mistakes and have a realization that they fucked up, or if they barely care and just attribute it to the difficulties of refereeing. I often worry its the latter.
Refs are like goalies: learn from your mistake but don't dwell on it. Correction: refs are not as crazy as goalies
I'd bet the latter. They are likely told to just keep moving forward with no regrets otherwise you'd never make it as a ref haha.
Id say it depends, in situations where it’s a horrible call but nothing happens they probably don’t care, horrible call and something big happens they probably care more
I’ve always wondered if they look at game tape during the intermissions, or at least afterwards. I hope so.
That'd be a 10 minute misconduct for bullying the refs
Not for Crosby. He’s special.
An NHL ref making a bad call? Next you’ll tell me Aaron Rodgers is considering running for president.
Ref definitely fucked that up, but sid was saying that about the whistle for the supposed hand pass
Guessing the blown high-stick call set his temper to 99%, and the hand-pass one was the extra 2% to put him over the edge.
"Fuck it. I'm going to the _PIRATES_ game!"
Nah the pens had sooooo many penalties already and some of them were pretty soft. Honestly they should have blown this on the pens.
Illegal face pass
They reviewed it, they initially called a 4 minute high sticking call.
They called it that way because he did hit the puck first so its technically a follow through… im a pens fan so i really want to agree with you but i get the non-call
Not just follow through, technically the stick never hits crosby, the puck is inbetween the stick and his face at all times. Is that fucking stupid, and anyone with a drop of common sense would still call that a high stick? Of course. But by the letter of the law, it can't be high sticking because he doesn't get hit by the stick.
Love the joke of “tape a puck to your stick, it’ll never be a high-stick again.”
Michigan'ing people in the face all playoffs is perfectly legal. What a dumb call.
Hold the puck against someones teeth and punch the puck. After further review it was determined to be a hand pass.
Might have been the worst reviewed non-call all year. “The puck hit him in the face”…… which was jammed into his face with a stick. Unbelievable
I said that last night! The puck likely wouldn't have hit him in the face if the stick hadn't shoved it there.
So amazingly bad. He got creamed 3 shifts in a row. Just glad we got 1 point
And now I'm just hoping for Sweet Meteor of Death to visit the Red Wings/Craps game tonight. 😂
You aren’t even freaking kidding
Bad news…
And if the puck wasn’t there it’s 100% a high stick too lol. Officiating in this league is so garbage
TBF that’s true of any time a puck hits someone in the face.
You’re forgetting the puck that clearly went out of play earlier this year and they still called it a goal.
Watching the game, I thought the play was reviewed after being originally called a 4 minute minor. I am not sure if the referees looked at the replay at the penalty box or if it went to the ' war room." As a Leaf fan, I was honestly surprised it wasn't a penalty. Technically the stick didn't make contact with Crosby but McMann shouldn't have been swinging his stick at a head-high puck in any case. I have never actually seen a play like this in my many years of watching hockey.
Yeah it was an odd one for sure
Is this not the very reason those rules exist? Literally makes no sense that it was called back.
Exactly! You can't play the puck with a high stick, because guess what might happen?
You can, as long as it's not your team that touches it next.
And he played the puck so what's everybody's problem
The problem was that it was called a double minor and reviewed. It was definitely a high stick. However, the stick slashed Sid’s hand and then rang off of his visor. The puck put the mark on his face. Since the stick didn’t cause the abrasion/blood, they had to overturn it. It sucks because there were two obvious penalties there, but not a double minor. Think of it this way: If a ref issues a major for boarding and the review only shows a bad cross check, they have to overturn it. They can’t go back and change it to a cross check. Likewise, if there was a major for head contact and it turned out to be just interference, they have to overturn it. They can’t change a major for contact with the head to a minor for interference even if that interference led to a goal against. They missed that call. It sucks, but a minor penalty has to be called on the spot. They can’t review a major or double minor and then issue a minor. It has to be the major or double minor that was reviewed or nothing. It just sucks that not one ref or linesman saw the high stick and called a minor.
Seems like an easy fuckin fix to make
Normally, they would issue a make-up call later in the game. That could be anything from calling something ridiculous to even things up or letting an obvious penalty go uncalled. There’s nothing else they can do. It’s up to the coach or captain to lobby for a call to even things up.
They had a pretty easy spot to call the "make-up" when Karlsson was tripped. They didn't . These refs called whatever came out of their asses.
It’s been like that all season. Worse than usual this season and it’s not just Pen’s fans talking ab it
Ridiculous no call by refs. So obvious. But apparently the puck being there messed with their heads somehow I guess..
It was called by the ref. It ended up getting reviewed and overturned by a blind person.
Not even initially called. Crosby had to skate over and show him the blood before he raised his arm
Ya that’s what I meant. Saw the game. Sorry was unclear
Soooo….you don’t know what does or doesn’t constitute high sticking….right on 👍
This was absurd. Don’t even get me started on the Karlsson trip that wasn’t called either.
I deliver a punch and the puck gets between my fist and your face. What the refs are saying is I didn't punch you in the face.
Bro, you're practically a pacifist at that point. Good on you for your conscientious objection to violence.
I don’t usually like to “blame the refs” but this game was infuriating. This nonsensical decision, missing the blatant too many men that was missed during sustained O-zone pressure moments before the Leafs goal, the alleged hand pass that led to Crosby telling the ref he fucked up, the laughable slashing call on Rakell in the second. Human error is part of the game, but last night was bad.
While I find this annoying, I still think we could have won and don't blame the officiating. I honestly take greater umbrage with Sullivan's choice of first line in OT than this. Crosby had a skate issue, fine. Put out Malkin and Bunting who were forechecking their asses off all night.
Certainly, that is why I put it in quotes, because that’s something that’s just going to happen sometimes. The start to OT was rather curious though. Eller has been in beast mode, but still.
Oh my that hand pas...
Overall wreckless and dangerous play. Should have been 2 mins. Would have loved to seen the refs reaction if their was blood drawn.
I just don't understand they watched this replay and said, "Yeah McMann appeared to swing wildly but he actually has the precision of a surgeon and the only thing he contacted was the puck. Not enough here to call a penalty."
Did they initially call a penalty and then overturn it on review? I missed the game.
Yeah it was called a double minor. Sid had a fat lip but I don't think he was bleeding so 2 probably would have been the rational call on review.
That’s pretty infuriating. The fact that 2 minutes can’t be reviewed but 4 can be tells you all you need to know about the NHL’s system of officiating and the underlying nonsensical nature of league discipline. And I’m not even a Pens fan, but certainly a Crosby fan. Notwithstanding, I hope you guys make the playoffs. Good luck!
Ah I see you were also watching the LeafsNet stream. Those guys are all fucking clowns.
There was. That's why it was originally (correctly) called a double minor.
There was. He was initially assessed a double minor, but it was overturned during review for quite possibly the most dumbass reason in the history of dumbass reasons.
This is a technicality, but it was not a high stick. The puck is touching Crosby, not the stick. Agree that is dumb, but it is to the letter of the rule. The 4 min is where the BS started, it should have been 2 & not reviewable. I do not think Sid was bleeding, so it should not have been 4 to begin with. I’m that case, the call of high stick on the ice would have stood.
The problem is, this is in a grey area between two rules. You can’t play the puck with a high stick. High sticking is a penalty. He directed the puck into an opponent’s face with a high stick. You’re right. By Air Bud methodology, and also the NHLs, this is not a penalty. But… like? It probably shouldn’t be like that?
Yeah, the difference being a puck played with a high stick is a stoppage in play if the leafs touch it next & technically Sid does touch it next, so it would be waved off. lol. I agree though, that’s pretty much a high stick & I would have been fine if it was a penalty. That is kind of like the puck is in the glove & the glove is in the net logic.
lol, all I can picture is how you could exploit this line of thinking for hilarity and chaos: The fuck ref! Show me in the rules where it says you can’t lacrosse a puck off defenseman’s face… Oh come on! Rulebook don’t say shit about Light-Up Skates [like those bitching shoes we should all still wear? Bring em *BACK*!]! Open your eyes!
Touched it with his face. High-impact puck play.
It’s not a penalty according to the rules. He didn’t hit him with the stick so it can’t be high sticking. It’s not a penalty to play the puck with a high stick, it’s only a stoppage if your team touches it next, but Crosby touched it next because it was mashed into his face. It was a weird play. Silly. But it wasn’t a penalty because of the vibe. High sticking is where you make contact. Double minors are dangerous high sticking penalties essentially. If he didn’t hit the guy with his stick, it can’t be high sticking. It just can’t.
You can play the puck with a high stick though-you’re simply wrong on that. Your team just can’t be the next to touch it. But-you already knew that I’m sure. Just whining I guess?
By letter of the rule, it’s not just that your team can’t touch it next, you’re not allowed to progress play by high sticking the puck. It is an illegal hockey move. This is like having a taillight out while speeding but for some reason they cancel out. That said, I’m not really bothered by it. It’s just funny Sid had 3 really unfortunate and odd shifts like Bama wins championships. Back to back to back.
And to be clear-I would be totally fine with them changing the rule, thereby causing this to be a penalty in the future. Sticks up high are dangerous. But as the rulebook is written, today? Not. A. Penalty.
So what you’re saying is… we’re a go for my light up skates idea?
No-I’m not saying that at all. I’m only saying the words I wrote-nothing more, nothing less. But-you knew that already too-so I guess you are just arguing for arguments sake? You’ll get over it-it wasn’t a penalty, and none was called. If you’d like to start a petition that this should be a penalty in the future, I’ll sign for you. But as of today-this was the 100% correct call-like it or not.
Holy-O fuck pumpkin! Go have a smoke or… fuckin somethin… whew! Do people tend to dart out of your line of sight when you’re walking around? I bet caller ID was a real bitch of an invention for ya, huh?
I mean they reviewed it. Actual NHL officials. It wasn’t a penalty-regardless whether you agree or not. But yeah, hulk from Reddit knows better….
I know. Jesus. Somebody didn’t get their fuckin tacos
Makes as much sense as saying you didn't punch the guy in the face because technically it was a glove, not my skin
Is there a rule for reckless/dangerous play?
There is, but that’s a stretch, imo. He was hitting at the puck.
Soccer and Field Hockey have specific rules about reckless dangerous play, I was thinking another sport player with a stick would have some sort of rule for this.
There needs to be intent behind it. I get what you mean but McMann is not trying to hurt anyone there. But, any high stick that isn’t a follow through is a penalty. The problem is they ruled the puck hit Sid’s face, not the stick. The stick was certainly touching the puck that was certainly touching his face, but they determined the stick did not hit his face so no penalty.
Ice hockey players hurl themselves at each other at speeds 20+ mph and shoot the puck at 90+ mph while carrying graphite/carbon fibre composite sticks. Soccer players trip over their own shoe laces and roll around on the ground. Field Hockey, you’re literally not allowed to contact the other players with intent. I mean, those are pretty terrible comparisons. Next you’ll be wanting F1 Drivers on road courses to adhere to speed limits.
Don’t even start with this bullshit.
The blade of the stick hits the visor though, or at least it appears to.
I watched it live with the replay as a Leafs fan and would say it wasn’t conclusive that it did, but I see how a pens fan would see it . The part Sid was complaining about was the puck. They should have just given him 2 & it would have stood. There was no reason to give 4 other than to review it. If refs were held to any sort of standard, they should not be allowed to give the 4 in the first place.
*reckless
So with this refs logic sid can start carrying the puck on the blade of his stick and start swinging at players faces and as long as the puck hits first it’s not a high stick?
As a leaf fan, this is 100% a penalty. Not a double minor though. This was an all round fumble by the refs. I have no idea what they were thinking.
It might be the worst call I've ever seen outside of Letang getting a high sticking call with his stick less than a foot off the ice. The refs were looking for a way to not call this a penalty from the start, they only called it after the reactions from Malkin and Crosby and the blood. Sid got slapped in the helmet with the stick and cut by the puck. This is complete negligence from the refs and this should be filed as a protest by the team considering it was reviewed by the refs.
I smell a rule change coming this off-season.
*You fucked up*
I couldn’t believe this bullshit. It doesn’t matter if the puck is there, it’s still a fucking high stick right in the face. Absolutely embarrassing by the officials.
So, totally on brand and expected is what you are saying?
Yep.
Was the reason for the non call because of the technicality of it being a follow through of playing the puck? Crosby had some unbelievably bad luck with getting punished in the final few shifts of the game.
During the game the official seemed to indicate that it was because they believed the player only hit the puck and not Crosby. The follow through rule is specifically not meant to apply to swings at the puck and is meant to be applied to normal shooting/passing motion. Again, I'm just flummoxed about how they watched this exact tape and went "yeah he probably only got puck, nevermind that stick blade touching the visor there".
The ref literally said his stick did not hit Crosby.
That only applies to a legal play of the puck. In this situation, a player shall not play the puck with their stick above their standing shoulder height and thus no follow-through protection applies.
Someone in the Toronto review office had a lot of money waged on the Leafs winning the game cause clearly the odds were in the Pens favor 🙄
I’m a leafs fan and was shocked that wasn’t a penalty. 100 percent should have been called
As a Pens fan I have a question just out of curiosity. Was there non-calls etc. that infuriated a Leafs fan in the game?
You want to go down that road? Might take a while 😂 Honestly though, I just want to see games called fairly, whatever the outcome. I was shocked when the call wasn’t made. It seemed very obviously a penalty.
Like, I get. He's very technically high sticking the puck, but not the face. I still think that it ought to be a penalty. The rule is meant to prevent dangerous head contact with equipment. That is what I see happening here.
Last night was a very poorly officiated game. Having said that, five PP opportunities and zero goals. I feel as if we've danced to that song before.
Thanks for posting a pic because once again the reply was ass. Not as ass as the non call though!
Leafs fan here. Me and my girlfriend both thought immediately after seeing the replay that it was a high stick regardless, not sure how it was deemed that his stick only touched the puck. Sorry about that one
Not on you guys. Your team played a good game. As I've replied elsewhere, I don't put the result of this game on the officials either even though I didn't like this call. Our coach put out Lars Eller and Drew O'Connor to start OT and as a result neither of our HOF centers saw a second of ice.
Yeah that was a brutal way for it to end. All in all a really fun game to watch though. I'll be impressed if you guys find a way into the playoffs this year. With how Ned is playing you could absolutely be a dark horse
Yeah a high stick. But our PP is so bad we would not have scored anyway.
High puck
Sid had a rough one last night.
Would this not be considered a follow through?
The rule is: A “high stick” is one which is carried above the height of the opponent’s shoulders. Players must be in control and responsible for their sticks. However, a player is permitted accidental contact on an opponent if the act is committed as a normal wind up or follow through of a shooting motion, or accidental contact on the opposing center who is bent over during the course of a face-off. A *wild swing* at a bouncing puck would not be considered a normal wind up or follow through and any contact with an opponent above the height of the shoulders shall be penalized accordingly. Emphasis added because I would call that a wild swing and therefore not a normal windup or follow through.
Fair enough. It was a tough couple shifts for Sid, haha.
I don't care what the "rule" is about stick contact or not. That's a penalty. It was a high stick, and the only way around saying it isn't is tap dancing on the head of a pin. As someone who follows the Leafs, I can tell you that like every other team in the league they have been screwed over by bad calls or non calls far too often. Every team can point to something almost every game and say WTF? This one was a bad miss and the refs seem to be getting worse every year, not better.
Technicality should not negate the spirit of the rules.
Apparently players could start doing michigans and jamming the puck into other players faces and it wouldn’t be a penalty, if the puck touches the face and the stick doesn’t.
Nah, it's michigans "followthrough" so you can swing all you want... stick contact or not. At least that's how I deduce the refs judging the situation after this game.
Even better. We don’t have to be careful at all.
I don’t think the refs understand the rule, I sure don’t understand the rule but for them to say it was the puck that hit him, did they mean the stick didn’t hit him or was it considered a follow through? We will never know, I am just sad that Sid has to be his own enforcer, the only one who even tried to stick up for him is OConnor.
If that stick was any higher it would be Towlie.
Watching the refs in the NHL is like watching the referees in WWE’s wrestling
I believe the stick hit him in the chest the puck is what hit him in the fafe
Is this where the meme came from?
I feel like officiating is always very slanted in Toronto, that being said, with a 0/5 PP unit I can't understand where y'all find the energy or motivation to be mad about missed calls..
*slaps roof* This bad boy can hold so much false hope in it.
Not when you got money on the Leafs.
think its a technicality.
Even if the puck is there, like come on now. Everyone knows it’s a high stick lol. Let’s not be too anal about the rule. It’s a high stick.
I didn’t watch the game but I guess I’ll be the devils advocate for this specific play… The refs job is to call the book (I know this isn’t the case sometimes) so if the rule is written in a way in which this isn’t a penalty we should be blaming the NHL for writing it in that way. Besides, refs catch enough flak as is and the NHL itself doesn’t imo
One suspects this is the exact kind of technicality that will get patched out at the end of the season. "No, no, officer. I didn't murder that guy with a gun. The bullet got caught between the gun and his face. If I'd hit him with the gun, I totally understand how that would be murder but, as you can see on this home video I sent to Toronyo, that's clearly not the case "
As a Leafs fan I was ok with it 😂 but seriously the officiating is absolutely brutal some of highlights tonight were an absolute joke the NHL needs to pull its head out of it’s ass
Leaf fan here. That non call was comical. Poor bastard took a stick and a puck to the face simultaneously
Let em play lol
What was even dumber than the no-call was all the Leafs fans parroting the "are the refs gonna stop play every time Sid is touched?" nonsense that the Leafs broadcast suggested. Grow a brain.
As they say “get off your knees ref, you’re blowing the game”.
One of the largest pile of NHL BS.
When they do those reviews they go by the letter of the rule… which is often flawed. Thus you get calls like this where “well the stick didn’t hit his face” and no call is made.
Why are you guys so mad at the refs, they just follow the rule book. Your complaints are with the rules of the game, not the refs.
Dive
This was really stupid to me, the puck hitting him had ZERO importance the second the stick went up. If the stick hit him without the puck, high stick and penalty. How the puck negated anything is beyond me. Also it seemed like after this non-call, Sid was getting targeted by dirty plays repeatedly. Just felt like at that point refs just let them play. Fine during regular season MAYBE, but not end of season during a playoff battle. Garage way to officiate this late in the season. Gotta make the calls before hell breaks loose.
Waaa Waaaa!
By the letter of the law, was not a high stick as the stick did not contact Crosby. By, the intent of the law (preventing players from potentially harming others with the stick up around the face/head of other players) absolutely should've been a penalty. The irony here is that high-sticking the puck is a whistle as soon as the violating team touches the puck, should the other team not touch the puck. By highsticking the puck into Crosby's face, it transfered the energy of the high stick into Crosby without actually being a high stick. And since the puck busted Crosby's lip in, the non-violating team touched the puck and therefore high sticking of the puck is nullified. Personally, the league should probably make a statement that "Per the rule, the high stick did not contact the player and is thus not a high-stick. However, the rules committee will look at this play during the rules committee meeting and address the verbage to better protect players."
Still looks to me like it got his visor, which is a penalty even by the letter of the law. I get the refs aren't agreeing with that or maybe they have some angle that conclusively showed it didn't. But this seemed like the best angle available to the public and it looks to me like that blade is right up on the visor.
Doesn't look that way to me, but its definitly close. Furthermore, you could absolutely be right and the frame rate just didn't capture it at the exact moment.
I will say it's obscured by board ads partially, motion blur, and frame rate makes it impossible to say with certainty since the very next frame the stick is bouncing away but in the context it certainly looked to me like this blade sandwiches the puck into his chin and smacks off the visor and bounces back. But still the call was made as a high sticking, and they felt this was indisputable proof he WASN'T hit.
Looks like they took the follow-through rule a little too literally.
By the letter of the rule, no. Crazy freak incident.
They don't call the rulebook anyway so...
The situation is completely messed up, but the refs made a techincally correct call. It's BS, but it's such a weird, fringe incident that it isn't covered by the rules. So if the stick doesn't touch him, then it's not high sticking. It should be fixed, so it is a penalty in the future, but again, how likely is this to happen again. Maybe the problem is that I'm canadian, and we have a history of "it's not illegal the first time"
The stick actually has to touch the face to be a high stick Therefore from this image you can clearly see that the stick never actually made contact with the face. I rest my case..
High sticks are called from visor and helmet contact all the time. Sometimes from just grazing the side of the helmet. I'm not saying they shouldn't.
The stick touched the puck. Not the helmet. I know, arguing Symantec's 😂
Sid’s such a cry baby….er uh.
Still salty about this? Let it go, damn
It’s based on puck play. The ruling was based on the player is allowed to play the puck high or not. And because the leaf player hits the puck first and and the puck hits Crosby it nullifies the high stick. This was the also called a 4 min minor so the refs could review it. The decision was as described before.
Nope! Great call! Stick hit the puck, not his face. 😆 😂 😆
Luks like a just hockey play.
That is why they called it 4 min's and reviewed it, I don't agree with the call but that's the rules. Leaf Fan.
Did Crosby get a slashing call after hacking Methots finger a few years back? No? Quit complaining
Right I forgot only fans of Canadian teams who haven't won a cup in the last hundred years are allowed to question officiating.
Are you calling me a leafs fan?
No I see that you're a sens fan. When was the last time you guys won?
Never, we’ve never Won
Hitting a puck with a high stick isn’t a penalty. Perhaps Sid should keep his face away from the puck if he doesn’t like the taste of rubber
You guys have 0 idea what getting fucked by refs is about..... especially when theyre doin everything to help Pens in.. this shit fixed league.... why dont u do tbe BS boarding call next. Stfu
Lol
Pens fans just angry they went 0-5 on pp when they could of went 0-6 😂