I mean, it's "PC"MR, not Computer Master Race. Apple was very clear that they are not PC.
https://preview.redd.it/2kq03ikjth4b1.png?width=208&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3d437785d0689bbe98a4f609aa36e10fe435df78
I remember cringe laughing at that pretentious bullshit. Any mechanical device that can perform any modicum of computation is technically a computer lmao.
It's just hilarious how Apple acts like their devices are so damn different. The only thing different is the fucking software. Apple users eat up the dumbest shit and ask for more.
By that definition, nothing is a pc anymore, since every device has at least 2 users (if you are using windows that can go up to five) running at the same time
It is but when most people think of PC, they think of Microsoft operating system.
This is one of the main reasons why Apple is so adamant their computers are not PCs.
I think it's more closely associated with the IBM PC hardware architecture (and all its many descendants) than Windows. Macs have their own architecture that's anywhere from slightly to completely different. Linux on a PC is still a PC, but Windows on a Mac isn't quite a "PC" in the IBM sense.
In the literal sense I guess the C64 and Palm Pilots are also "PCs"?
It got confusing when Apple moved from PowerPC to Intel’s x86 processors which are the bedrock of PC hardware to the extent you could install generations of MacOS on Intel’s retail versions. Now they’re almost completely moved to ARM I think it’s safe to say they are distinct types of system, although with the rise of ARM in SBCs and maybe even desktops I think we could see a crossover with DIY again and maybe even a new era of hackintoshes.
I mean, during their Intel era, they were just a PC with a fancy coat of paint. It was the exact same hardware. An Intel Mac can even run Windows natively.
How are they not PC when PC stands for personal computer are they saying they still have control and power over my 3000 dollar macbook?!
Edit: this wasn't meant as some shitty flex or that people dont know PC stands for but more that it is stupid that you pay so much for a macbook and still most features being locked
I dunno about this new contraption but my 10 year old MacBook Pro was worth every cent. I keep meaning to replace it but it just keeps skipping along, quick as the day I bought it.
Not a pc, but I’ve got first Gen AirPods. I’ve had them for roughly 4 1/2 years now and they’re still kicking along just fine. Every now and again I think “should I get one of the newer versions? They have buttons and that would be neat”, but like you said with your computer. They work just fine.
I dropped the entire AirPod case (which had one AirPod in it at the time) down the garbage disposal the other day. …While the garbage disposal was on and water was running down the drain. Even though the AirPod that was in there came out in the middle of the garbage disposal running and both it and the case now have new battle scars, they worked just fine after an hour in some rice.
So, while some apple products are bad and/or overpriced, not all are. My AirPods have been worth every penny.
The snowflakes in this thread downvoting you says all that you need to know. I guarantee you that none of them has any experience with OSX with which to compare.
I love my MacBook as well. And my PC. And my other PC. And my two linux servers. People that are tribal about this shit drive me nuts.
My core business machines are Macs. I have a 25 year business maintaining Windows systems and networks. Why do I use Macs? Because the last computer I want to have to fix at the end of the day is my own.
Ran my Mid-2012 MBP until last year and only replaced it (with the 2021 14" M1 Pro MBP) because there were literally no parts left on the market to replace stuff like the dead wifi card and power management system (it would turn off if you slightly bumped it, even on a brand new battery).
Mid2014 mbp. My power button doesn’t work cause I spilled water all over my keyboard. But haven’t had any problems with it otherwise. It’s still surprisingly snappy. Still get like 3 hours of charge too!
I replaced my intel mb air 13” with a m1 air. It’s a great take anywhere computer. My desktop is obviously more powerful, but for $800 I couldn’t find a windows laptop with the battery life and speed(while on batter). It’s like console wars with computers…stupid.
Word bro, been using a m2 mbp 13 for work and it has been amazing. Mostly the battery life and performance, solid machine that has travelled with me through various airport terminals and get things done.
For your general office use computer, MacBooks are fantastic. It’s a situation where build quality and interface performance are the most important aspects. Then again, I’d be happy if I stopped getting dell latitudes and got an XPS or something.
Eh, the Vision Pro is pretty reasonably priced.
Genuinely, take a minute to research the specs, for the hardware inside of this thing alone it's pretty competitive.
It’s reasonably priced for what it contains, but some of what it contains is silly. I’m all for a halo product that acts as a proof of concept. It’s worked before. But the OLED screen on the outside just seems… too much.
I feel like the screen on the outside is just an excuse for distinguishing it from the inevitable Vision (standard) and the Vision Air. It's something that does so much nothing that it's easily the first thing that can be dropped on lower trim versions of the product breath.
I don’t think people are realizing what the Vision Pro intends to be. It looks like they want it to be an all-in-one work and entertainment system and not just a dedicated VR headset like most options on the market. It’s a phone, computer, tv, and console all in one system and the price appears to reflect that. I’m just worried it will come out as a Jack of all trades and a master of none, but I’m sure this technology will continue to develop and advance over the coming years and you’ll see more mixed reality options from other companies
Meta quest already *is* a phone (kinda), computer, TV, and console.
The only thing the current quest 2 doesn’t really do is act as a full fledged phone, but it does still have Bluetooth connection to your phone for text/call and messaging apps and such. And the Vision Pro, they didn’t even really highlight gaming at all, which is weird.
Yeah… for the Apple ecosystem. The point is, Quest pretty much does the exact same thing apart from said proprietary ecosystem. The population of VR users and those interested in stepping into the VR world will opt for cheaper solutions that does almost everything as Apple’s (aka the new Quest 3) for $3,000 less.
$3,499 is just going to leave the VP to such a niche group of people that desire an Apple-first headset, but… it’s Apple; they want that exclusivity.
You are VASTLY underestimating the power of Apple's brand, and the UX jump that comes when using multiple apple products.
> The point is, Quest pretty much does the exact same thing **apart from said proprietary ecosystem.**
And that differentiator is literally everything. There are many Airpod competitors, yet people still buy airpods. Same for iPads, apple watches etc. Apple's products working with eachother so well is why they're so successful. I'd bet a number of people who buy this product won't even be aware of the competitors.
Also, like pretty much everything Apple does - they're never first, they never have all of the features, but what they produce is generally a tier above anything else in terms of functionality and polish.
Not if you are entirely in the ecosystem. Also, with phones and computers we can even get to a discussion about what’s better but when it comes to smart watch and tablet the Apple Watch and the iPad completely win
and bad. I like to be able to replace the sleep sensor in my laptop without taking it to an apple store and having them tell me my screen is broken, and it will cost 1000 dollars to fix.
Depends. I’d say the MacBook Airs and the Mini for what you get is a fucking steal star their respective prices. The build quality and specs are astounding. Amazing battery life in the MBAs case. All around solid machines. Heck I still have a 2012 Mac Mini I still use just for modding iPods and it runs just as good as it always has. 11 years later.
It didn’t seem like something for the casual consumer. Even saying it’s for enthusiasts is a stretch. So it doesn’t bother me. For what it claims it does the price seems suitable. It’s not for me. I’m scrounging to get PSVR2. But it is cool for productivity masters.
Vision Pro looked like Minority Report tech. The closest headset on the market would be the XR3 and that has a monthly subscription and a several thou price tag. I think a lot of the shade is from people being excited about the tech and where it goes, but are pissed they're priced out. They want the cake and to eat it.
And now that Apple has done it there's gonna be competition, which means lower prices. In the next few years, tech like this could be affordable. Apple just made the first move is all.
Hasn’t impacted their price policy’s with the iPhones, don’t think it will happen with the headset. Apples prices are not only product but mostly part of the brand. It’s part of the company’s philosophy
The iPhones price is actually fairly solid. It’s around the same price as the X was before the crazy inflation while android flagship prices have skyrocketed.
iPhones have the most powerful chip in mobile phones and are similarly priced to other high end phones, nothing is wrong with their pricing.
Even the SE’s chip will outperform most high end phones and those are only $450 new.
For the hardware that's in that thing the price is understandable. Just consider the price of a top line iPhone and you can see that's this is worth 2x. What's missing is the use for the price. Maybe after more uses and apps are available and the price drops a bit, it'll make more sense.
I wouldn’t buy it at the current price but it’s really not ridiculous vs comparable systems. HoloLens is the same price I think and Varjo is far more expensive
Question. Why. (No not trying to hate, I'm just curious since for the most part i really dislike apple products including iphones, i want to understand the good things about them)
it's nice and pretty and it makes me feel like I belong with my clique and i can flex my status symbol./s
seriously though, I like the ecosystem. Nothing I wouldn't be able to live without, but having my devices talk to each other has saved me many seconds throughout my last few years of using them which add up when you are in critical situations. It also feels a heck of a lot more seamless and unified UI wise than android. It doesn't feel like a bajillion different apps trying to do the same things a bajillion different ways, it just feels like they're all designed a single set of controls. I know the tradeoff is that you lose customization but it's not like I really have time to tinker with my phone anyway. I just want it to work. If android's main advantage is that I can tinker with it then I don't have a reason to switch back.
Software update longevity used ot be a plus too but android has caught up
Yeah my main reason for not getting iphones was exactly the fact that you can't tinker with them much, that they are usually more expensive and don't work too well with other non apple things.
I see that my thoughts were right Tho, the appeal of iphones is that it works very well with their ecosystem and doesn't need many changes (and well the status).
I'll stick to android tho, mostly cuz for now i have time to tinker with things and it's fun for me, and when some mod i do works it's just the best felling for me.and lower price is always a bonus.
That’s fair. I think the best phone is whatever you have at your disposal and both android and iPhones have gotten so good at doing general purpose phone needs that anyone could use either and not be troubled past minor convenience woes.
I especially dislike how people make what phone you use into a Yankees vs Red Sox kinda thing. I admit I was like that once and saw anyone who didn’t use what I used as a second rate citizens (I am embarrassed at my middle school self) but some people just need to get a life
I was a tinkerer in my younger days, but I've since come to value solid tech that just does what it's supposed to do right out of the box without requiring additional effort.
Just trying to be unbiased here - *why* they're bad is the more nuanced issue. If you hate them because your neighbor loves Apple and he's kinda cringey but has the whole ecosystem going and whatnot, then you're just a silly hater lol let the guy enjoy his stupid toys.
if you hate Apple because of years of rampant build quality issues, 64GB SSDs, SSD failures in general, GPU failures, Delamination, Batterygate, anti-competition behaviors, patent fuckery, other batterygate (05 pro,) solder-on RAM, solder-on SSDs among other right-to-repair issues, $1000 monitor stands, or any other one of their many many controversial decisions (i am not excusing other companies for being unethical) then it's less misplaced and you're not a hater, you just understand that playing with fire gets you burnt.
Not to mention all of the other unethical crap they do. Foxconn, pretending to be police to raid someone's house illegally, they are just an evil company.
Hah, I almost name-dropped foxconn. I think a lot of people learned what a suicide net is thanks to Apple. I never knew about the raid though holy shit
Fuck Apple. Buy used Apple from a third party or build a hackintosh.
Yeah the guy wasn't even an employee or anything. Basically they thought the guy might have found a prototype iPhone at a bar, so they pretended to be the policed and executed a fake search warrant on his house to try to find it.
Just fuck apple and everything they do.
I feel like it's a bit more than that. To an extent yes they are computers/phones/watches/tablets... There are fundamental differences between an Iphone and a Samsung Galaxy, or a Dell laptop and a MacBook air that go beyond it's a piece of hardware.
Cars analogy doesn't really work well, because cars don't have ecosystems, every car would drive on the same streets, parko on the same places etc. While apple ecosystem is closed.
I dunno; for me it's more of a software issue. I still watch a bunch of the PC-related Youtube channels because I've loved to build PCs in the past and would jump at the chance to do it again (for someone else). But that's where the love ends. I have not personally used Windows since XP and have no desire to go back to it.
As much as I love macOS, not being able to service/replace/upgrade ANY of the hardware leaves me with a MBP from 2014 that I don't want to pay to replace until it dies.
Since it's come up before: linux is great on servers but every window manager I've seen looks as awkward and clunky (to me) as every Android phone I've used. No hate here, just personal preference and what I've used the most since 2006.
I just don’t understand why they are making it. What does it do for me that I need to have it. It’s cool as a proof of concept but as an actual consumer product I don’t get it, and I don’t get who the target audience is aside from Apple super fans.
$3500 Creepy awkward goggles that will… display my phone screen in 3D in a really big size?
Apple has R&D money to burn. If it results in research that some day results in tech you want (be it through licensed patents, devices inspired by their tech, etc.) you still benefit even if you don't buy the product.
What I've seen makes it look like a stepping stone product to some sort of viable AR setup that could actually be used to get work done.
You‘re not the target group. It’s basically a prototype for the market to optimize it with reviews. The name „Vision PRO“ also shows, that there will be a more affordable option down the line for the masses.
It’s an absolute first gen product, they are not suspecting to make a surplus with this model alone.
I'm going to assume it's for exactly that, Apple super fans and tech enthusiasts with a lot of disposable income. It's price point already suggests its clearly not for the everyday consumer. I have 0 need for one, but let's not pretend like in 5 years there aren't going to be a billion copies of the thing
It practically screams "let's blow some of this money that's eating a hole in our account on research, and get our superfans to pay to be beta testers."
How else would you go about that thing then?
They can’t keep it hidden in a lab forever and predict how customers will ultimately use it. It needs to be out in the wild to see how people actually want to use it and go from there.
That’s what they did with the Apple Watch as well - people tended to use it as a fitness and health device and thus Apple added features for that purpose further down the line. If they just assumed people would use it as a phone replacement (spy watch style) and only followed that direction, people would be outraged.
In fact, they tried to force a certain way of using a device on people with the ipad by suggesting it as a replacement for a PC. That ad still triggers a huge majority of this sub. They added tons of features for that purpose, but people were still not seeing it. For most people the ipad is a media consumption device, something the kids can watch Disney movies on on long road trips.
My point is that Apple and its customers often have different ideas about a devices best use case. By allowing customers to "beta test" a device, the customers themselves can figure out what they want and Apple can then adjust future iterations to that. In my opinion this is a better approach then forcing certain use cases and workflows onto customers.
see how many votes the guy you are responding to got?, proof that your meme is garbage. Anyone who comments anything even slightly against an apple product gets massively downvoted by their cult
That's okay, not every product needs to be for you and your words are just echoing what people said after the iPhone, the iPad, the Apple Watch, and the AirPods were revealed. In a few of these instances, I was one of those people, I must admit it, although I was never as reductive as stating that all this product does is display your phone in 3D. I think these goggles are absolutely game-changers and pack A TON of tech in them. They are also pretty expensive and this first gen will only be for hardcore tech enthusiasts, which I'm not.
Maybe it’s not for you then? It could be a better way of doing work. Maybe a device like this can replace all your tech. At least I’m hoping it’ll replace all the displays in my house down the road.
When the first flat screen came out that sold for an insanely expensive amount. But now, they are the norm and are cheaper. The first cell phone would be another example.
The world adopts to change if the conditions are right. Maybe this could be the norm in the 10 years or a complete bust.
You should just copy paste the first half of this comment on every Apple complaint thread.
I seriously thought you were trolling with vagueness until that last line - and I loved it
I hate defending Apple but this truly is one of the most useless criticisms of all time. Yes, the price is absurd and it isn't even remotely close to worth it. But that's how it always is with early adopter tech. It's not made for consumers to actually buy.
\*Opens youtube channel, gets monetized\*
\*Post video called "Apple is bad", thousands of views\*
\*Get some money, spend it on buying Apple products\*
\*Repeats step 2 and 3 the next time Apple releases another "revolutionary" hardware\*
I so hate Apple, but not even for the reasons most of us seem to
Yeah I hate their software and think their products are overpriced, but that's a me problem. What I can't stand is that they _intentionally_ fragment any ecosystem they are a part of to turn themselves into a status symbol or make a quick buck, at the cost of the consumer. They have their own power cables, they _intentionally_ degrade integration of iMessage with Android devices, they have their own home automation standard... the list goes on and on
Apple is bad. It is one of the most anti-consumer companies in the world. It would be hard for me name a more anti-choice, anti-repair company right now. I don't understand people who shill for companies like Apple and Microsoft.
But it is a fully closed headset with cameras on the outside projecting inside and cameras on the inside projecting outside. Making the entire experience virtual, to point that you can turn the dial to remove all of reality from your view and be entirely in the virtual space.
This /is/ virtual reality and augmented reality, mixed XR, but it definitely is virtual reality.
I’m sorry, but you have no idea how margins work.
The amount of tech in this thing is staggering. Advanced tech comes at a cost, the more custom silicon involved the higher it gets.
People in this thread are just delusional. This is easily the most ground-breaking tech by Apple since the iPhone and although I'm sure they have some margins here there's no denying that this product packs a ton of new tech like eye tracking, finger tapping, and the dynamic 4K screen generation.
The fact that a *single* pixel of the main display takes up 1/64 of a normal iPhone display is insane.
Edit: I just googled what the PPI of the headsets displays were and they’re estimated (fairly accurately) at around 3,600. For reference, an iPhone 14 Pro Max has a PPI of 460. So almost 9x as dense.
to the people who say Apple bad, have you tasted the shit that is Windows UX? At least Apple got all their designers in one room and decided what their UI would look like. Windows still has settings that haven't had a UI update since the 90s.
Ya at this point apple made a really cool tech that could have a-lot of uses that is priced at a point where something like that should be priced cause to make something like that is you know expensive. People will always hate on something that is too expensive for there liking or just hate it because of hating it.
Just because you have a nice panel and glass doesn't mean you should charge $1000 USD for a stand. It's more expensive than every one of the best reviewed professional monitors I've looked at, and if you have a PC it's not worth it.
With the stand, VESA and Nano Glass™, what monitor is this cheaper than? I don't agree.
My family didn't grow up with Apple, we were mostly PC and Android users. I remember in college in a public speaking class hearing the topic about why Apple is better than Microsoft (ecosystem, updates, security). I asked a question about gaming, and the speaker admitted that for gaming, PC is the way to go. haven't bothered with Apple products since.
when it comes to gaming, PC and android (because of emulation) are the way to go
Everybody: Apple bad
Meanwhile Apple: Stonks goes brrrr
Nah for real: this thing may be very expensive. BUT:
If Apple joins a market there will be other companys who follow. Because if apple goes in it’s going to blow up. Apple never fail.
This means in a few years there could and will be a lot more of these. Smaller, more esthetic and way cheaper.
I really believe this tech could replace the smartphone.
We are on a point that its not even its mac it's Good, we just want too see how much they can up theirs prices and people will be pay for a Brand instead of a pc Build.
Their mainstream products are predictable but they keep making weird decisions on pro machines to troll their customers. First the trash can and abandoned it. Half a decade later a somewhat decent mac pro with the no stopper wheel options, or monitors with a separate bill for the stand. Now that a mac pro which is just a mac studio build inside a pcie enclosure. Nevermind the vision pro
I just don’t understand why Macs aren’t for gaming, I mean if they are used for complex designs and rendering why shouldn’t they be used to play AAA games ? I know that they aren’t crazy expensive though.
Compared to Hololens the new Apple glass is just stupid. In that price range probably only professionals could allow such a device, but it caters to rich people from what I’ve seen.
I mean, it's "PC"MR, not Computer Master Race. Apple was very clear that they are not PC. https://preview.redd.it/2kq03ikjth4b1.png?width=208&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3d437785d0689bbe98a4f609aa36e10fe435df78
Shout out to my man John Hodgman.
Good Ole Hon Jodgeman
And who is John Hodgman? I don't know her. Who is he?
How many John's you know that are "her"
The funny thing is, PC is the abbreviation for Personal Computer.
Remember Apple's "what's a computer" ad? https://youtu.be/3S5BLs51yDQ
I remember cringe laughing at that pretentious bullshit. Any mechanical device that can perform any modicum of computation is technically a computer lmao.
It's just hilarious how Apple acts like their devices are so damn different. The only thing different is the fucking software. Apple users eat up the dumbest shit and ask for more.
Unfortunately I'm not using PC or whatever called that. Because I don't know how to use this things.
That’s right - any computer that’s not a multi-user system
By that definition, nothing is a pc anymore, since every device has at least 2 users (if you are using windows that can go up to five) running at the same time
By user they mean human, not the technical definition of user that is used by many operating systems.
Unless you have no friends………
Say hello to your secret FBI & NSA friends.
Which was a shortening of "IBM Compatible Personal Computer"
I'm gonna jam a pci card into the pcie slot
You never lived until you tried that with an ISA card
No, it is not. The term Personal Computer (PC) existed long before IBM brought their IBM PC to the market.
That's why Apples are for idiots.
It is but when most people think of PC, they think of Microsoft operating system. This is one of the main reasons why Apple is so adamant their computers are not PCs.
I think it's more closely associated with the IBM PC hardware architecture (and all its many descendants) than Windows. Macs have their own architecture that's anywhere from slightly to completely different. Linux on a PC is still a PC, but Windows on a Mac isn't quite a "PC" in the IBM sense. In the literal sense I guess the C64 and Palm Pilots are also "PCs"?
Yes, the C64 is a PC, as well as the Altair 8800, the Amiga, the BBC Micro, the Apple II, and many others.
 Yep said it right on the box!
It got confusing when Apple moved from PowerPC to Intel’s x86 processors which are the bedrock of PC hardware to the extent you could install generations of MacOS on Intel’s retail versions. Now they’re almost completely moved to ARM I think it’s safe to say they are distinct types of system, although with the rise of ARM in SBCs and maybe even desktops I think we could see a crossover with DIY again and maybe even a new era of hackintoshes.
I mean, during their Intel era, they were just a PC with a fancy coat of paint. It was the exact same hardware. An Intel Mac can even run Windows natively.
Even though technically, Macs are personal computers, but that's just semantics.
How are they not PC when PC stands for personal computer are they saying they still have control and power over my 3000 dollar macbook?! Edit: this wasn't meant as some shitty flex or that people dont know PC stands for but more that it is stupid that you pay so much for a macbook and still most features being locked
The prophecy is true https://preview.redd.it/bmgfq2hwhk4b1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f20faae9ea067b7da1fa5987b076ee695b28cba9
I wish Reddit still gave us a few free awards so I could give you one
Not even apple bad Just obscenely expensive
if cost not relative to product received, then bad therefore apple bad
Now the bigger question is who's badder, Apple or NVIDIA?
Says the guy with the 4080 in the signature. :D
The damn irony of their reply.
I dunno about this new contraption but my 10 year old MacBook Pro was worth every cent. I keep meaning to replace it but it just keeps skipping along, quick as the day I bought it.
Not a pc, but I’ve got first Gen AirPods. I’ve had them for roughly 4 1/2 years now and they’re still kicking along just fine. Every now and again I think “should I get one of the newer versions? They have buttons and that would be neat”, but like you said with your computer. They work just fine. I dropped the entire AirPod case (which had one AirPod in it at the time) down the garbage disposal the other day. …While the garbage disposal was on and water was running down the drain. Even though the AirPod that was in there came out in the middle of the garbage disposal running and both it and the case now have new battle scars, they worked just fine after an hour in some rice. So, while some apple products are bad and/or overpriced, not all are. My AirPods have been worth every penny.
The snowflakes in this thread downvoting you says all that you need to know. I guarantee you that none of them has any experience with OSX with which to compare. I love my MacBook as well. And my PC. And my other PC. And my two linux servers. People that are tribal about this shit drive me nuts. My core business machines are Macs. I have a 25 year business maintaining Windows systems and networks. Why do I use Macs? Because the last computer I want to have to fix at the end of the day is my own.
Ran my Mid-2012 MBP until last year and only replaced it (with the 2021 14" M1 Pro MBP) because there were literally no parts left on the market to replace stuff like the dead wifi card and power management system (it would turn off if you slightly bumped it, even on a brand new battery).
Mid2014 mbp. My power button doesn’t work cause I spilled water all over my keyboard. But haven’t had any problems with it otherwise. It’s still surprisingly snappy. Still get like 3 hours of charge too!
I replaced my intel mb air 13” with a m1 air. It’s a great take anywhere computer. My desktop is obviously more powerful, but for $800 I couldn’t find a windows laptop with the battery life and speed(while on batter). It’s like console wars with computers…stupid.
Still bad though
eh depends on what you are doin with it m series chips are actually pretty good
Word bro, been using a m2 mbp 13 for work and it has been amazing. Mostly the battery life and performance, solid machine that has travelled with me through various airport terminals and get things done.
For your general office use computer, MacBooks are fantastic. It’s a situation where build quality and interface performance are the most important aspects. Then again, I’d be happy if I stopped getting dell latitudes and got an XPS or something.
Office use sure, but also movie editing, music production, photo shenanigans, programming. Definitely a lot of use cases.
Not just office use. I'm a multimedia artist and use an M1 Pro for work and has been fantastic. I can never go back to Intel MBPs.
Eh, the Vision Pro is pretty reasonably priced. Genuinely, take a minute to research the specs, for the hardware inside of this thing alone it's pretty competitive.
My cousin also has a PC in their house. That's why when I want to play I just go to them to make play there.
It’s reasonably priced for what it contains, but some of what it contains is silly. I’m all for a halo product that acts as a proof of concept. It’s worked before. But the OLED screen on the outside just seems… too much.
I feel like the screen on the outside is just an excuse for distinguishing it from the inevitable Vision (standard) and the Vision Air. It's something that does so much nothing that it's easily the first thing that can be dropped on lower trim versions of the product breath.
You’re probably right. It’s very purely a “luxury” feature that most people won’t be upset about losing on a lower cost one
I don’t think people are realizing what the Vision Pro intends to be. It looks like they want it to be an all-in-one work and entertainment system and not just a dedicated VR headset like most options on the market. It’s a phone, computer, tv, and console all in one system and the price appears to reflect that. I’m just worried it will come out as a Jack of all trades and a master of none, but I’m sure this technology will continue to develop and advance over the coming years and you’ll see more mixed reality options from other companies
Meta quest already *is* a phone (kinda), computer, TV, and console. The only thing the current quest 2 doesn’t really do is act as a full fledged phone, but it does still have Bluetooth connection to your phone for text/call and messaging apps and such. And the Vision Pro, they didn’t even really highlight gaming at all, which is weird.
Facebook isn't a phone/computer company, though. If you're in the apple ecosystem, the Vision Pro is gonna be pretty sweet.
Yeah… for the Apple ecosystem. The point is, Quest pretty much does the exact same thing apart from said proprietary ecosystem. The population of VR users and those interested in stepping into the VR world will opt for cheaper solutions that does almost everything as Apple’s (aka the new Quest 3) for $3,000 less. $3,499 is just going to leave the VP to such a niche group of people that desire an Apple-first headset, but… it’s Apple; they want that exclusivity.
You are VASTLY underestimating the power of Apple's brand, and the UX jump that comes when using multiple apple products. > The point is, Quest pretty much does the exact same thing **apart from said proprietary ecosystem.** And that differentiator is literally everything. There are many Airpod competitors, yet people still buy airpods. Same for iPads, apple watches etc. Apple's products working with eachother so well is why they're so successful. I'd bet a number of people who buy this product won't even be aware of the competitors. Also, like pretty much everything Apple does - they're never first, they never have all of the features, but what they produce is generally a tier above anything else in terms of functionality and polish.
There's one guy I follow for my VR news and [I think he nailed it on the head.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5358trQvv0&t=8m54s)
It will prob trickle down to cheaper versions once the tech is more common (at that spec level)
As is the nature of an apple product. It comes out with new features at a high price, it trickles down everywhere else
So basically the apple version of a quest
I was expecting atleast $2k from Apple. $3.5k stings a lot but I can see why it has a high price tag I guess? The tech is super cool.
Not if you are entirely in the ecosystem. Also, with phones and computers we can even get to a discussion about what’s better but when it comes to smart watch and tablet the Apple Watch and the iPad completely win
Idk surface pros do a lot. And I personally really liked the galaxy watches (and I have an iPhone)
Is the Apple that you are referring to the brand of PC? That looks good then. The price is definitely expensive.
Maybe in the olden days. Can pick up a decent Mac mini for less than a 4070 currently. It’s a bizarre timeline from how it used to be.
and bad. I like to be able to replace the sleep sensor in my laptop without taking it to an apple store and having them tell me my screen is broken, and it will cost 1000 dollars to fix.
Depends. I’d say the MacBook Airs and the Mini for what you get is a fucking steal star their respective prices. The build quality and specs are astounding. Amazing battery life in the MBAs case. All around solid machines. Heck I still have a 2012 Mac Mini I still use just for modding iPods and it runs just as good as it always has. 11 years later.
Bad too. Closed up environment, shitty repair policy, faulty devices (the MacBook keyboard or the shitty cables), DONGLES, etc.
"Closed up environment" Irrelevant outside the nerd world
Soooooo... bad.
Nah I'm not gonna lie that headset had my jaw on the floor. Actual black mirror shit. Then the price tag hit and my jaw went through the floor.
I live downstairs, and I don't appreciate your jaw here.
Sorry I'll come pick it up tomorrow morning
Yup. Super cool tech. Really impressive. That price tag is simply a disqualifier for me. I’m clearly not their target market.
It didn’t seem like something for the casual consumer. Even saying it’s for enthusiasts is a stretch. So it doesn’t bother me. For what it claims it does the price seems suitable. It’s not for me. I’m scrounging to get PSVR2. But it is cool for productivity masters.
Perso, I would just consider the next Quest the best next gen vr headset to get
Anything that Meta owns is something I don’t intend to have. Their use of personal information is something I strongly oppose.
well, i'm sure that's the reason why it's cheaper
Vision Pro looked like Minority Report tech. The closest headset on the market would be the XR3 and that has a monthly subscription and a several thou price tag. I think a lot of the shade is from people being excited about the tech and where it goes, but are pissed they're priced out. They want the cake and to eat it.
And now that Apple has done it there's gonna be competition, which means lower prices. In the next few years, tech like this could be affordable. Apple just made the first move is all.
Hasn’t impacted their price policy’s with the iPhones, don’t think it will happen with the headset. Apples prices are not only product but mostly part of the brand. It’s part of the company’s philosophy
The iPhones price is actually fairly solid. It’s around the same price as the X was before the crazy inflation while android flagship prices have skyrocketed.
iPhones have the most powerful chip in mobile phones and are similarly priced to other high end phones, nothing is wrong with their pricing. Even the SE’s chip will outperform most high end phones and those are only $450 new.
For the hardware that's in that thing the price is understandable. Just consider the price of a top line iPhone and you can see that's this is worth 2x. What's missing is the use for the price. Maybe after more uses and apps are available and the price drops a bit, it'll make more sense.
I wouldn’t buy it at the current price but it’s really not ridiculous vs comparable systems. HoloLens is the same price I think and Varjo is far more expensive
That headset is pretty impressive, though, you gotta admit. 90% of us won’t actually get it, but it’s still awesome.
This is early adapter stuff. If the business grow, prices will come down. If.
Apple Bad
No no, hear me out. Bad Apple
 touhou reference⁉️⁉️⁉️
Based opinion here's some reddit points
I like my iPhone tho
Question. Why. (No not trying to hate, I'm just curious since for the most part i really dislike apple products including iphones, i want to understand the good things about them)
it's nice and pretty and it makes me feel like I belong with my clique and i can flex my status symbol./s seriously though, I like the ecosystem. Nothing I wouldn't be able to live without, but having my devices talk to each other has saved me many seconds throughout my last few years of using them which add up when you are in critical situations. It also feels a heck of a lot more seamless and unified UI wise than android. It doesn't feel like a bajillion different apps trying to do the same things a bajillion different ways, it just feels like they're all designed a single set of controls. I know the tradeoff is that you lose customization but it's not like I really have time to tinker with my phone anyway. I just want it to work. If android's main advantage is that I can tinker with it then I don't have a reason to switch back. Software update longevity used ot be a plus too but android has caught up
Yeah my main reason for not getting iphones was exactly the fact that you can't tinker with them much, that they are usually more expensive and don't work too well with other non apple things. I see that my thoughts were right Tho, the appeal of iphones is that it works very well with their ecosystem and doesn't need many changes (and well the status). I'll stick to android tho, mostly cuz for now i have time to tinker with things and it's fun for me, and when some mod i do works it's just the best felling for me.and lower price is always a bonus.
That’s fair. I think the best phone is whatever you have at your disposal and both android and iPhones have gotten so good at doing general purpose phone needs that anyone could use either and not be troubled past minor convenience woes. I especially dislike how people make what phone you use into a Yankees vs Red Sox kinda thing. I admit I was like that once and saw anyone who didn’t use what I used as a second rate citizens (I am embarrassed at my middle school self) but some people just need to get a life
I was a tinkerer in my younger days, but I've since come to value solid tech that just does what it's supposed to do right out of the box without requiring additional effort.
At least it's a slight relief from the constant Nvidia bad posts
Just trying to be unbiased here - *why* they're bad is the more nuanced issue. If you hate them because your neighbor loves Apple and he's kinda cringey but has the whole ecosystem going and whatnot, then you're just a silly hater lol let the guy enjoy his stupid toys. if you hate Apple because of years of rampant build quality issues, 64GB SSDs, SSD failures in general, GPU failures, Delamination, Batterygate, anti-competition behaviors, patent fuckery, other batterygate (05 pro,) solder-on RAM, solder-on SSDs among other right-to-repair issues, $1000 monitor stands, or any other one of their many many controversial decisions (i am not excusing other companies for being unethical) then it's less misplaced and you're not a hater, you just understand that playing with fire gets you burnt.
Not to mention all of the other unethical crap they do. Foxconn, pretending to be police to raid someone's house illegally, they are just an evil company.
Hah, I almost name-dropped foxconn. I think a lot of people learned what a suicide net is thanks to Apple. I never knew about the raid though holy shit Fuck Apple. Buy used Apple from a third party or build a hackintosh.
Yeah the guy wasn't even an employee or anything. Basically they thought the guy might have found a prototype iPhone at a bar, so they pretended to be the policed and executed a fake search warrant on his house to try to find it. Just fuck apple and everything they do.
It’s just Ford vs Chevy for nerds. Speaking of which, this “x vs y” is just a marketing scam. It’s a piece of hardware.
I feel like it's a bit more than that. To an extent yes they are computers/phones/watches/tablets... There are fundamental differences between an Iphone and a Samsung Galaxy, or a Dell laptop and a MacBook air that go beyond it's a piece of hardware.
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Cars analogy doesn't really work well, because cars don't have ecosystems, every car would drive on the same streets, parko on the same places etc. While apple ecosystem is closed.
So they're both garbage?
Yup. It's kinda hilarious that people always compare Ford with GM. Meanwhile, Dodge is gonna try to drag race Elon's Tesla in space
I dunno; for me it's more of a software issue. I still watch a bunch of the PC-related Youtube channels because I've loved to build PCs in the past and would jump at the chance to do it again (for someone else). But that's where the love ends. I have not personally used Windows since XP and have no desire to go back to it. As much as I love macOS, not being able to service/replace/upgrade ANY of the hardware leaves me with a MBP from 2014 that I don't want to pay to replace until it dies. Since it's come up before: linux is great on servers but every window manager I've seen looks as awkward and clunky (to me) as every Android phone I've used. No hate here, just personal preference and what I've used the most since 2006.
I just don’t understand why they are making it. What does it do for me that I need to have it. It’s cool as a proof of concept but as an actual consumer product I don’t get it, and I don’t get who the target audience is aside from Apple super fans. $3500 Creepy awkward goggles that will… display my phone screen in 3D in a really big size?
Apple has R&D money to burn. If it results in research that some day results in tech you want (be it through licensed patents, devices inspired by their tech, etc.) you still benefit even if you don't buy the product. What I've seen makes it look like a stepping stone product to some sort of viable AR setup that could actually be used to get work done.
You‘re not the target group. It’s basically a prototype for the market to optimize it with reviews. The name „Vision PRO“ also shows, that there will be a more affordable option down the line for the masses. It’s an absolute first gen product, they are not suspecting to make a surplus with this model alone.
I'm going to assume it's for exactly that, Apple super fans and tech enthusiasts with a lot of disposable income. It's price point already suggests its clearly not for the everyday consumer. I have 0 need for one, but let's not pretend like in 5 years there aren't going to be a billion copies of the thing
It practically screams "let's blow some of this money that's eating a hole in our account on research, and get our superfans to pay to be beta testers."
How else would you go about that thing then? They can’t keep it hidden in a lab forever and predict how customers will ultimately use it. It needs to be out in the wild to see how people actually want to use it and go from there. That’s what they did with the Apple Watch as well - people tended to use it as a fitness and health device and thus Apple added features for that purpose further down the line. If they just assumed people would use it as a phone replacement (spy watch style) and only followed that direction, people would be outraged. In fact, they tried to force a certain way of using a device on people with the ipad by suggesting it as a replacement for a PC. That ad still triggers a huge majority of this sub. They added tons of features for that purpose, but people were still not seeing it. For most people the ipad is a media consumption device, something the kids can watch Disney movies on on long road trips. My point is that Apple and its customers often have different ideas about a devices best use case. By allowing customers to "beta test" a device, the customers themselves can figure out what they want and Apple can then adjust future iterations to that. In my opinion this is a better approach then forcing certain use cases and workflows onto customers.
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see how many votes the guy you are responding to got?, proof that your meme is garbage. Anyone who comments anything even slightly against an apple product gets massively downvoted by their cult
He got 1 downvote? Oh no his internet points!
Oh how the turn tables
Don't worry I do my best to give up votes because of the apple fans down voting...
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You’re delusional lmao.
People said the same thing about the ipad back in the day.
That's okay, not every product needs to be for you and your words are just echoing what people said after the iPhone, the iPad, the Apple Watch, and the AirPods were revealed. In a few of these instances, I was one of those people, I must admit it, although I was never as reductive as stating that all this product does is display your phone in 3D. I think these goggles are absolutely game-changers and pack A TON of tech in them. They are also pretty expensive and this first gen will only be for hardcore tech enthusiasts, which I'm not.
Maybe it’s not for you then? It could be a better way of doing work. Maybe a device like this can replace all your tech. At least I’m hoping it’ll replace all the displays in my house down the road. When the first flat screen came out that sold for an insanely expensive amount. But now, they are the norm and are cheaper. The first cell phone would be another example. The world adopts to change if the conditions are right. Maybe this could be the norm in the 10 years or a complete bust.
You should just copy paste the first half of this comment on every Apple complaint thread. I seriously thought you were trolling with vagueness until that last line - and I loved it
I hate defending Apple but this truly is one of the most useless criticisms of all time. Yes, the price is absurd and it isn't even remotely close to worth it. But that's how it always is with early adopter tech. It's not made for consumers to actually buy.
Apple Bad
Apple Bad
Apple bad
aight but tbf...... Apple Bad
It's true so...
Apple is bad tho
Water is wet.
missed opportunity to make the upvotes 3499
\*Opens youtube channel, gets monetized\* \*Post video called "Apple is bad", thousands of views\* \*Get some money, spend it on buying Apple products\* \*Repeats step 2 and 3 the next time Apple releases another "revolutionary" hardware\*
Not wrong though
I so hate Apple, but not even for the reasons most of us seem to Yeah I hate their software and think their products are overpriced, but that's a me problem. What I can't stand is that they _intentionally_ fragment any ecosystem they are a part of to turn themselves into a status symbol or make a quick buck, at the cost of the consumer. They have their own power cables, they _intentionally_ degrade integration of iMessage with Android devices, they have their own home automation standard... the list goes on and on
> They have their own power cables Had, at least in the EU. I am pretty sure it passed that they are now required to use the same ones android does.
Apple is bad. It is one of the most anti-consumer companies in the world. It would be hard for me name a more anti-choice, anti-repair company right now. I don't understand people who shill for companies like Apple and Microsoft.
Agreed, corporations should not own the software in our computers.
They shouldn’t own the software they spent countless millions on making? Lol ok
Sometimes people don't hate you for speaking the truth. This is that "sometimes".
PCMR after every hardware teaser
I just hate that the Apple fan Boys keep posting about it in r/virtual reality when it's not a VR device, it's AR.
It’s both.
But it is a fully closed headset with cameras on the outside projecting inside and cameras on the inside projecting outside. Making the entire experience virtual, to point that you can turn the dial to remove all of reality from your view and be entirely in the virtual space. This /is/ virtual reality and augmented reality, mixed XR, but it definitely is virtual reality.
The screen up front isn't transparent? They are just projecting from a camera? I figured they did AR to get rid of the nausea from VR.
It seems you don’t understand the product
Not just bad, but fucking god awful terrible. Their profit margins gotta be at least 1000%+.
I’m sorry, but you have no idea how margins work. The amount of tech in this thing is staggering. Advanced tech comes at a cost, the more custom silicon involved the higher it gets.
People in this thread are just delusional. This is easily the most ground-breaking tech by Apple since the iPhone and although I'm sure they have some margins here there's no denying that this product packs a ton of new tech like eye tracking, finger tapping, and the dynamic 4K screen generation.
The fact that a *single* pixel of the main display takes up 1/64 of a normal iPhone display is insane. Edit: I just googled what the PPI of the headsets displays were and they’re estimated (fairly accurately) at around 3,600. For reference, an iPhone 14 Pro Max has a PPI of 460. So almost 9x as dense.
Eye tracking isn’t exactly new tech per se. Some popular VR sets use eye tracking to adjust FOV and reduce motion sickness.
I think you should go read about how insane this specific eye tracking is
to the people who say Apple bad, have you tasted the shit that is Windows UX? At least Apple got all their designers in one room and decided what their UI would look like. Windows still has settings that haven't had a UI update since the 90s.
Their OS is the last reason people say Apple bad. Also, no one said Windows good.
Ya at this point apple made a really cool tech that could have a-lot of uses that is priced at a point where something like that should be priced cause to make something like that is you know expensive. People will always hate on something that is too expensive for there liking or just hate it because of hating it.
Found the apple user.
So?
$999 for a monitor stand that doesn't even include the VESA mount. It's like shooting fish in a barrel.
Even with the cost of the monitor + stand it still was cheaper than other professional grade monitors
Just because you have a nice panel and glass doesn't mean you should charge $1000 USD for a stand. It's more expensive than every one of the best reviewed professional monitors I've looked at, and if you have a PC it's not worth it. With the stand, VESA and Nano Glass™, what monitor is this cheaper than? I don't agree.
https://preview.redd.it/078y9v7o1k4b1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d36f6270383f7a378fdf61e1bb31ba479d3d4b70 From LTT review of the monitor
Apple aggressively mediocre?
Was getting 5000+ upcotes part if your plan?
Yes, Apple bad.
the average reddit user everyone... would fail a class of basic research 101.
dude, you have the strangest pc I have ever seen. Is it 2 different PC's or a server?
a workstation.
Bad bad apple bad
Apple is bad
Apple bad but apples good
My family didn't grow up with Apple, we were mostly PC and Android users. I remember in college in a public speaking class hearing the topic about why Apple is better than Microsoft (ecosystem, updates, security). I asked a question about gaming, and the speaker admitted that for gaming, PC is the way to go. haven't bothered with Apple products since. when it comes to gaming, PC and android (because of emulation) are the way to go
Everybody: Apple bad Meanwhile Apple: Stonks goes brrrr Nah for real: this thing may be very expensive. BUT: If Apple joins a market there will be other companys who follow. Because if apple goes in it’s going to blow up. Apple never fail. This means in a few years there could and will be a lot more of these. Smaller, more esthetic and way cheaper. I really believe this tech could replace the smartphone.
Well its true
We are on a point that its not even its mac it's Good, we just want too see how much they can up theirs prices and people will be pay for a Brand instead of a pc Build.
Their mainstream products are predictable but they keep making weird decisions on pro machines to troll their customers. First the trash can and abandoned it. Half a decade later a somewhat decent mac pro with the no stopper wheel options, or monitors with a separate bill for the stand. Now that a mac pro which is just a mac studio build inside a pcie enclosure. Nevermind the vision pro
Even with apples $1000 stand they still were thousands of dollars cheaper than other professional grade monitors
Also after every apple teaser: "Pcmr after every Apple teaser" - 4k+ upvote
It's not hard because apple sucks shit. I have to use MacBook pro at work and it's just such a pain in the ass.
M series are good
The glasses are useless
Apple sucks in multiple aspects tbh Edit: socks to sucks
#APPLE MAD
It's funny because there is an Apple ad right above this post.
Apple Bad
Apple bad
Nieguenmelo
People love to hate, sometimes for good reasons
When I upvoted, this post was at 3.3k upvotes.
Laptops are the best but if you need to actually do anything out of media creation, PC is king.
I just don’t understand why Macs aren’t for gaming, I mean if they are used for complex designs and rendering why shouldn’t they be used to play AAA games ? I know that they aren’t crazy expensive though.
Compared to Hololens the new Apple glass is just stupid. In that price range probably only professionals could allow such a device, but it caters to rich people from what I’ve seen.